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How to give constuctive feedback
JAG
Super Moderators Posts: 9,088 moderator
In order to help those who are new to photography or new to the challenge boards, and as a refresher course for those who have been at this a long time, I was thinking we need some general guidelines to what we are looking for in feedback for images.
This is not rules being set. Giving constructive feedback is an important part of how we learn ourselves and how others can learn from the feedback. It is the goal to the challenges. Many might feel that they are not good enough yet as a photographer, to interject on to someones image any kind of critism or feedback.
However, it is not hard to do and as you practice doing it and read others feedback, you will learn in time what is useful and what is not.
First I will list a few that are not useful feedback:
Nice shot!
It doesn't do anything for me.
I don't get it.
Lovely!
Now, you might think a shot is a 'nice shot', but in constuctive feedback, you need to list why you think its a nice shot. Example:
"This is a very nice shot! I realize that you have probably only had one time chance to snap that image and you managed to capture it well. What I like most about it is the way the light is causing a halo effect and the way the wisps of hair seem to glow. I wouldn't change a thing"
Now lets say the shot is mediocre and there is some obvious flaws in it. Example:
"I can see your effort here. I realize that you probably had a one time chance to snap that image and although I see that it meets the theme, I would have liked to see a tighter crop on it to help take out some of the background distractions. What I like about this image is that the lighting is really pretty and your subject is in focus very well."
Now lets say the shot is absolutely horrible and you really do not know why they posted it. 2 examples:
1. "I realize that you probably had a one time chance to snap that image and although I see that it meets the theme, I see you had some problems with the focusing. I would try and sharpen it some in post editing. The background is distracting so it might help if you crop the image. Next time maybe you would benefit from posting on the challenge board to get some feedback. We can maybe give your some great ideas! I think with some work you might have something here."
or
2.
The first example is something that would be written for if you just love an image and you really do not have anything that you would improve on. The point is that instead of saying nice shot, I am giving the photographer feedback to why I like it. The photographer then can use that info as something that worked right and keep it in mind for another shoot in the future.
The second example is for an image that is ok, but has some issues. This is in place of "it doesn't do anything for me". Notice that I acknowlege that there is a person behind the camera and that I recognize they took the time to go out and take the image for the challenge. Their skills might not be up to par with the first image. Note that I give constuctive feedback on what I would have done to try to make the image better. Then I finish off with what I do like about the image.
The last examples speak for themselves. But I have not seen many that fall into this catagory. There is almost always something you can find to say something positive about an image. All examples are just that. Use your own words. But first recognize that there is a person who took the photo, then recognize the effort put into it, and give positive feedback as well as constuctive feedback.
We as a community of professional, recreational and newbie photographers need to support one another with our feedback. That is how we all learn to become better photographers!:thumb
Here is some further reading for constuctive feedback.... HAMBURGER METHOD.
This is not rules being set. Giving constructive feedback is an important part of how we learn ourselves and how others can learn from the feedback. It is the goal to the challenges. Many might feel that they are not good enough yet as a photographer, to interject on to someones image any kind of critism or feedback.
However, it is not hard to do and as you practice doing it and read others feedback, you will learn in time what is useful and what is not.
First I will list a few that are not useful feedback:
Nice shot!
It doesn't do anything for me.
I don't get it.
Lovely!
Now, you might think a shot is a 'nice shot', but in constuctive feedback, you need to list why you think its a nice shot. Example:
"This is a very nice shot! I realize that you have probably only had one time chance to snap that image and you managed to capture it well. What I like most about it is the way the light is causing a halo effect and the way the wisps of hair seem to glow. I wouldn't change a thing"
Now lets say the shot is mediocre and there is some obvious flaws in it. Example:
"I can see your effort here. I realize that you probably had a one time chance to snap that image and although I see that it meets the theme, I would have liked to see a tighter crop on it to help take out some of the background distractions. What I like about this image is that the lighting is really pretty and your subject is in focus very well."
Now lets say the shot is absolutely horrible and you really do not know why they posted it. 2 examples:
1. "I realize that you probably had a one time chance to snap that image and although I see that it meets the theme, I see you had some problems with the focusing. I would try and sharpen it some in post editing. The background is distracting so it might help if you crop the image. Next time maybe you would benefit from posting on the challenge board to get some feedback. We can maybe give your some great ideas! I think with some work you might have something here."
or
2.
The first example is something that would be written for if you just love an image and you really do not have anything that you would improve on. The point is that instead of saying nice shot, I am giving the photographer feedback to why I like it. The photographer then can use that info as something that worked right and keep it in mind for another shoot in the future.
The second example is for an image that is ok, but has some issues. This is in place of "it doesn't do anything for me". Notice that I acknowlege that there is a person behind the camera and that I recognize they took the time to go out and take the image for the challenge. Their skills might not be up to par with the first image. Note that I give constuctive feedback on what I would have done to try to make the image better. Then I finish off with what I do like about the image.
The last examples speak for themselves. But I have not seen many that fall into this catagory. There is almost always something you can find to say something positive about an image. All examples are just that. Use your own words. But first recognize that there is a person who took the photo, then recognize the effort put into it, and give positive feedback as well as constuctive feedback.
We as a community of professional, recreational and newbie photographers need to support one another with our feedback. That is how we all learn to become better photographers!:thumb
Here is some further reading for constuctive feedback.... HAMBURGER METHOD.
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Forum for Canadian shooters: www.canphoto.net
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
http://www.facebook.com/ImagesByCeci
Picadilly, NB, Canada
Good suggestions in this article - and I like the question checklist to consider before offering feedback - on anything.
http://www.imagesbyceci.com
http://www.facebook.com/ImagesByCeci
Picadilly, NB, Canada
Last summer a friend and I were invited to judge photography division at a neighboring county's fair. Scared to death to try this, but at the same time it was a challenge I wanted to take on just to force myself from my comfort zone. I can also tell you it took hours to do, and there were not a great deal of entries. We both had to grade (1-5) and give notes (in a very limited amount of space) on the following:
A. Technical Excellence
1) Focus and Clarity. Is the subject in focus with acceptable sharpness and clarity?
2) Colors and Exposure. Does the print have correct exposure as well as color accuracy on
color prints (acceptable contrast on black & white prints).
B. Photographic and Artistic Eye
1) Composition. Is the subject clearly defined through subject placement, depth of field, use of props, etc? Did the photographer achieve the image they desired, does it have impact?
2) Artistic Merit. Originality? Is the image pleasing to the eye? Would you hang this print in your living room?
I actually wound up feeling very good about how I did and it is all due to what I have learned in this forum. I was honest with everyone, like I want them to be with me. I didn't make it personal, I used phrases like, "I would have liked to have seen..." or "I think it would look better with..." Like the article stated. I always emphasized something good about it, even if there was little to find. I worried that we might have been too hard. These were, for the most part, just everyday people... but so am I. I am not professional, and I prefer an honest opinion... and also understand, it is only someones opinion. I may agree, I may not. But I always appreciate the different points of view.
Thankfully, I did better at that county fair than I did in the gallery this time. I was very brief in my comments this time, due to lack of time... yet I felt the need to comment since there had been so few this round.
My SmugMug
On the other hand, it can be really discouraging to get negative feedback; that doesn't help either.
I think that "option 1" in the horrible photograph section is the most constructive kind of feedback a photographer can get. Acknowledge what is done well, but constructively point out specific things that really need improvement.
The photographer, then, has to take every such criticism with a grain of salt, and evaluate whether following that advice would make a photo more or less like the kind of photography that they want to do. It's hard to do that and not take it personally.
www.photographyjones.com
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
Well... I'm gonna push you a bit to re-consider, Jenn. I firmly believe that critiquing other's work, no matter you're level of expertise is a powerful way to improve your own work. I'm an educator by trade and a day doesn't go by that we don't ask our students to critique one another's work.
This forum is a diverse mix of people with different styles and different levels of expertise. But it's also, by-an-large, an amazingly friendly and supportive group. If you can look at someone else's work and say you like it, or would like a different crop better, it's not far from there to analyzing why and adding a reason to your preference. Just the process will make you look at your own subjects and work differently. Give it a try!
Check out billseye photos on SmugMug
I guess you're right, but I really don't want to offend anyone especially if I am not liking someones image. Do I say why I don't like it too?
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=216860
The reality of any creative/artistic endeavour is that there are always going to be subjective elements to any critique. However, photography is a medium that allows for a common set of experiences/uses/skillsets. It means that we have, as photographers, a common ground for discussion of what adds value to an image.
In other words, we should all feel comfortable offering a critique, or two. And we should likewise realize that our work will be judged/evaluated. None of us capture images that we think are awful, at least, not intentionally (save for teaching purposes, I guess.) But if we're going to call ourselves professional, we have to accept that there may be flaws in our work, and that those flaws need addressing.
Or, by self-analysis, I'm a good sports shooter. I'm a competent action/news photog. I'm not as good at other elements (portrait/feature news) as I'd like to be. And in about 10 minutes, I'm off to do a food/product shot for the dgrin challeng, something I've *never* done before. I'm quite prepared to suck - and expect to be told same if it's true.
Forum for Canadian shooters: www.canphoto.net
Challenge accepted, critique posted.
Now, back atcha.
www.photographyjones.com
Done. Thanks for the pointer.
Check out billseye photos on SmugMug
I wonder if I have enough experience to actually call myself a photographer yet?
I'm not a professional photographer and only have a point and shoot to work with...
I'm not great at taking portraits, but I did my first shot of my granddaughter in the last challenge. I was really happy with how it turned out even if I didn't place anywhere in the top 5. She's a real sweetheart and has such expressive eyes.
Panasonic Lumix 10x DMC-TZ3 :photo
Leica Mega O.I.S./28mm WIDE :smile6
I have also received excellent constructive feedback on the forums. In this last challenge, someone was kind enough to point out the greenish hue on my first submission, which I corrected with a little white balance. had it not been for that comment, my photo may have been a total flop, who knows. More recently, I got some feedback that let me know that my photo seemed soft and not enough DOF was maintained to fully capture the subject. As it turns out, I had the same opinion when I posted it, but was unable to correct it due to time, technical limitations, the patience of my model and a buch of other excuses. Had the comment not been provided, I may have come away from that challenge feeling I was being too hard on myself. But comments like these help motivate me to keep improving and searching for the perfect shot, if it exists.
I only hope the few comments I have provided have been of as much assistance to others.
I for one enjoy it when I get any comments on my images be it positive or negative.
One of my goals when I am shooting is to create something interesting enough to get people talking about it!! For me, If I get no comments all I've accomplished is a snapshot. I really mean it when I thank everyone for their comments!
The key is understanding you will never please everyone. The goal really should be pleasing yourself. (if that gave you dirty thoughts you should be ashamed!!)
I think it would be cool it the contest were broken into two rounds. Allow everyone to submit their image the first week and then have a 48 hour vote and comment period. Then allow all entries a few days to resubmit an entree based on feed back, submit a new shot or leave it as is before a final vote. That would give people the chance to really improve their images based on comments and votes.
With that said I really love these challenges and all the feedback I do get here. I'm sorry I don't always have the time to give my own feedback as well as others do.
http://snaptx.smugmug.com/
Light is everything in life and photography.
I've been absent from the forum for a while but decided I wanted to dive back in here.
One thing this post says to me that I've seen quite a few people state before (not just here, but life in general) is the idea that you need to be better than someone to offer them useful critique, but I just don't think that's true. I've also seen the corollary of this said by people who don't handle criticism well (oh you don't like my photo/song/video/salad recipe? Well let's see YOU do better, chump!)
Everyone is going to have an opinion when they look at a photo whether they have experience shooting or not. The thing that makes critiques useful is when the viewer is able to analyze or deconstruct their own opinion and express it in a meaningful way.
Photography has technical and artistic elements to it, so it helps to be a shooter as well to comment on the technical stuff, but the artistic part, no one should ever feel apprehensive about their opinions.