Job Photographing Large Race--Advice?

Fogcity · August 21, 2010

Hi all,

I just was offered a job for our local civic organization photographing a local 4 mile race. They'd like general pictures of the event along with a picture of each runner crossing the finish line. Expecting anywhere from 600-900 runners. I'm thinking I need at least one other photog with me at the finish line to be sure to capture everyone, do you think I need a 3rd? This is not a high paying gig, but a great way to get my name out in the community as everyone racing will get our site info to locate their picture. My questions are:

(1) Is there a way to sort a gallery by bib number besides labeling the pictures and sorting the picture names--I can't locate a search function. With that many runners, it needs to be easy to find their picture. I know their are sites out there that allow you to put in the runner's name, etc. and their info pops up, but I don't think I can tweak SM to do that?

(2) The org would like for the pictures to be "at cost" instead of me marking them up and donating a percentage back to the league and they are not paying me to be there. Figuring maybe 10% of runners will purchase their picture, "at cost" becomes very tricky to cover my time and possibly hiring a 2nd photog. Suggestions?

(3) Any general advice for an event like this from those who have done it before?

PS - they are promoting me on their site and advertising my company so there is quite a bit of benefit to directly contact about 800 residents in my community.

Thanks for any help!
Karen
www.scrippsphotos.com

Zone99 · August 21, 2010

Karen,

Having been in a number marathons, half-marathons and shorter races and having the photography interest to notice what the photographers are doing along the course (I am probably the only runner out there trying to identify what camera type the official photographers are using when I'm crossing the finish line of a marathon! "Ouch! Ouch! Ouch! Ooohh! Hey! He has D700!

), I would err on the side of caution and have a third photographer.

I would say a third, especially since you are being asked to do general race pictures as well. You might find yourself hard-pressed to finish general pictures and then get over to the finish line.

Consider that there is likely to be several runners who will run sub-6 minute miles, You'd have to finish up general shooting, get over the finish line and be ready in 20 minutes for the winner.

With close to 1000 people in the race, you are going to get a few fast folks, then a wave of people coming in the 7 to 8 min/mile range and then likely another wave around 10 min/miles. It could get...crowded.

If you don't go for a third, I would seriously recommend someone to back up each photographer for changing cards or, even better, someone to hand your primary camera to (with the full card) and hand you your second camera.

You can get over 1000 pictures on a big enough card but why risk it?

I also wouldn't count on getting everyone as they cross. It's a lot of people but you can try.

During some of these races, I've seen a couple of photographers on opposite sides of the course somewhere during the race and they seem to 'split' the sides of the course.

You could do the same at the finish line.

An elevated site line would be better but, obviously, is not always possible.

So:

1) Sorting the gallery - the only way that I know of is to sort by caption but that would require you to go through and edit the caption on each.

2) Cost - quite honestly, if you don't work for the organization, I'm not sure why you would be forced to do it "at cost". It's your time, your money. You should get something for it.

I'm not sure what kind of organization it is but why would you be asked to donate some back to the league if you marked up? I understand this is a good opportunity for you but consider: hiring the second photographer, time, sorting, editing, cropping....that's a lot to ask you to do this pro bono.

There are sites out there that do this professionally. Why not see what they charge and come up with some smaller cost that will work?

3) I haven't done an event like this so my answers are just off the cuff.

Again, I understand you are getting free promotion out of this but I'm not sure I understand the restriction on a small markup?

Biffbradford · August 21, 2010

I just got in from shooting a running race for Brightroom. The race had almost 5,000 runners and we shot it with 3 photographers (should have had at least 5 or more). I shot at about 500m from the finish, another shot the finish line, the 3rd did just general shots. I personally shot >5,000 images and there is NO WAY I got everybody. It's impossible when they run in packs. With one guy on either side of the road, you could probably get 75% or better if both knew what they were doing. It's not easy - you've got probably 2 seconds to pick your target, square them up in your frame so you don't have to crop later, then shoot. I tell 'ya, I spent probably 2 hours straight with my camera buffer almost filled. Often the first shot I attempted was not taken because the camera had not caught up yet! (Canon MkII N).

I'm wondering if there is some kind of number recognition software you could use to label each image by bib number. It would take you over a week to do just that for 10,000+ images!

Biffbradford · August 21, 2010

Are you following this thread about "On Spec" shooting? http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=174936

I think 10% sales goal is a bit too optimistic right now in these tight economic times. (or those photos better be darn good!)

Icebear · August 21, 2010

A couple of years ago, there was some discussion on DGrin about a company that had developed AND PATENTED a process for identifying race competitors by time or bib number.

You'd better search for that thread, and look around to find them, cause they were very aggressive (and apparently successful) in pursuing patent infringement actions against other photographers. I don't mean other photogs at events they were covering. I mean people shooting other events using what, to most of us, seemed common sense methods, but the way their patent had been written WERE COVERED BY THEIR PATENT. Everyone was completely gobsmacked that the legal system upheld their actions, but it did. The law may be an ass, but when someone sics it on you, it seems like a damned big ass.

beetle8 · August 21, 2010

I'm a little confused,
Are they paying you to be there?
You say it's not a high paying gig, but then in line two are you suggesting the possibility of them not paying you? or that they in fact are not paying you.

I have done a few races (on spec) the organizers post links to the various shooters along the route and the racers browse. I've had decent luck with that. No guarantees of getting every runner and I do not organize them in any way other than by time shot. Not amazingly convenient for the runner but much more so for the shooter who isn't getting paid to organize them. I've not done a race with 1000 runners before but I'd say @500, and again had decent sales, worth my while sales for a mornings work.

If the orgazizers are seeking a specific shot list and that list includes a shot of every runner and they want you to provide those images at cost, then the organizer should be paying you well.

I can tell you this, IMHO you are over estimating the value of the exposure for your name by providing this service at little to no cost. Especially if you are looking at needing more shooters.

The "kick back" "spec sales" business plan is dying, it worked 3 to 5 years ago but not so much anymore. I don't offer kick backs other than press shots to organizers anymore.

beetle8 · August 21, 2010

Also +1 to what Icebear says above.

A mediocre photographer decided to make money on a BS patent rather than his photography and has successfully sued or settled with photographers with the obvious assumption that it will be easier to settle than fight. I believe SM was involved in someway defending their basic search features, but not possitive on that one.

Fogcity · August 21, 2010

Thanks so much!
These are all great, insightful answers--thank you! I have to submit a proposal re: what I will charge per photo, so I guess I am looking at this as more of a marketing tool for me (since I will reach so many and have a lot of exposure in my community where most of my business is) than a money making tool. I'd like to say this will lead to better paying gigs and since I've only been established for about a year I think I need the exposure. On the flip side, IF 1,000 people ran and I sold pictures and even made a small profit per picture on a 7-10% scale (I know that's ambitious), that would at least cover my time. The organization is not offering to pay me (it is our non profit civic association and the 40th anniversary celebration for the community I live in)--maybe I should push for $200-300 for me to be there and sell pics at a reduced cost? I'm just really concerned that without a search function on SM I can't function like a site that actually does this for their profession so it will be cumbersome for people to find their pictures. I think that shooting a listing by time crossing the finish line may be the best way to do it, if I can get the clock in the picture. What to do, decisions, decisions! I think the bottom line is the exposure would be huge enough that it's worthwhile for me to do it, but I need to do it right and have at least 2 other photogs and figure out a search function and *hope* to sell enough pics to cover costs or consider it a marketing right off. Thoughts?

rich56k · August 21, 2010

The posting of over 500 images does require a license thru 'photocrazy' - see links.
To expand on earlier posts..the issue is a site called photocrazy and before smugmug changed their homepage they had a direct link to event photogs posting more than 500 images needing a license from photocrazy...heres some google results worthy of a quik peek...on another note also warn that many (including myself) have been swayed by the term 'non-profit' realize this is an IRS category and in no way indicates the employees aren't payed a decnt and normal wage - its typically used to try and avoid compensating other professionals - but that's your business - I would def check the links - it includes possibly the only org. currently fighting photocrazy as smugmug was previously engaged in the matter and hence their warning...also don't forget to factor in the hours you WILL spend in post and uploading - this is all part of your cost

here's the ref to smugmug:
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1014&message=26846637

here's the one still fighting:
http://santabarbarapix.com/pixblog/?page_id=953

some more general info regarding this:
http://www.sepsociety.com/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=3429

do some research and act accordingly - just my .02

good luck

rich56k

ropeboy · August 28, 2010

For a four mile "fun run" you may see only three or four percent of the runners buying a photo. You may see only $80.00 in sales at $3.00 a print. You may see $300.00 if they go nuts over your images. Your organizers, on the other hand, will see 900 x $15 entry fee = $13,500 in entry fees. When they want you to offer prints at cost, and expect you to do it for free, and pay a second shooter, they are treating you like their other local sponsors, banks, car dealerships, printing companies, and others who are supporting them and donating thousands of dollars in cash or goods to support the "cause." Try to persuade them you are supporting their cause. Offer to "waive" a $300 shooting fee and get your money from three dollar prints. Or offer them a fantastic deal of prints at cost combined with a "support the cause" shooting fee of ONLY $300. I bet they will have $300 in bagels for the runners, so this is just another small check for them to make out. Red flag, in your future, this client and others will EXPECT nineteen cent photos if you go that route.
I have been shooting races like this near Fresno for three years and have learned which kinds of events are profitable and which are not. Look around you. If there was a lot of money shooting races there would be five photographers showing up to shoot every small race. That is not happening. It can work if you do the math beforehand and stay within an expense budget. As for the publicity and local exposure benefits, pish, that is highly over rated. Let us know how it all works out for you.
Mark
www.markhaymond.smugmug.com

beetle8 · August 28, 2010

You keep asking for thoughts,

You are significantly overestimating the value and amount of exposure that will come from this event.

chrisjohnson · August 29, 2010

As I see it they are prepared to endorse you as "official photographer" when you make the photos available to participants at a reasonable cost. They want to know your pricing so there is no come-back on them should you try and gouge people for prints. They already sniff your commercial instincts and don't like the smell. You can make a profit as long as it seems reasonable, and it is your business as entrepreneur so when you hire 10 photographers that is your decision (and cost).

It is probably acceptable to everybody when you post all the photos on the website and leave it to individuals to identify themselves and friends and family. In our village such events also involve a local retailer posting prints in the shop so people who are not net-savvy can order prints. You don't even need to know the names, just the shot number.

A reasonable markup for prints would be double your cost. Retailers are normally happy with 40-50% margin - so half your gross margin - especially when they are public spirited. This is a lot of hassle for them for little return but they do it as a community service and to sell more groceries and because they like to smell nice.

The runner crossing the finish line is a cliche. Only one person finishes first and who wants to be reminded of finishing in 500th place. Better perhaps to shoot at the top of a tough climb - everybody remembers that, and the runners are spreadout and easier to shoot.

Getting your name around with 1000 people in your local community as "official photographer" and "good citizen" is the main purpose. I cannot imagine you make significant money otherwise.

PS A final and you might think cynical remark. The people with money in your community are likely among the organizers and sponsors of this event. These are the people you need to impress. People without money do not pay for photographers. So far you seem to be doing a lousy business job and you have not even shot the first runner.

Sorry to be slow replying. Likely the race is already run.

Job Photographing Large Race--Advice?

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