A gal (mom) at our gym is getting nice shots with a D80 and that Nikkor 18-200 3.5-5.6 DX VR lens. What's up with that?
Anyway, here's one from tonight's effort. Read how to get passed the 1600ISO to "H" which is 3200ISO. I think in the Nikon's that's "H1?"
So this is at 3200ISO/24mm f2.8/AIServo Mode for focus/Spot Metering. It's better than last night, but gettting noisey. There's a noise reduction feature that haven't turn "on" yet, so I'll try that tomorrow.
But Mike, how are you getting such a bright subject? Is our gym that poorly lit, or am I still not getting "it?"
This just looks to me like the darkest part of the gym with bright light in the background. Can you shoot anywhere else in the gym where there's more light and not so much brightness in your background?
If you're at ISO 3200 and f/2.8 already, then you just need more exposure. That means more light (a different location in the gym or a flash), slower shutter speed (I don't know what you shot this one at) or larger aperture (an f/1.8 lens). What about using flash?
This one can be processed a bit in Photoshop to bring shadows up, highlights down and do some noise reduction, but that's only a last resort - you need to fix one of the previous things.
No flash allowed in gymnastics events. So it's not an option at all.
This was a test, so I took it from the same location/angle as the first one, to see if the changes in camera settings were going to cope or not.
As far as taking the shots from another location, in a way, no, not really....and that's sort of how it is at all of these gyms. The spectator areas are usually in one location and you can sometimes move around somewhat within that area, but really, you get what you get, and you have to deal with it. Only the pros are allowed out on the floor with the gymnasts.
So I'm trying to learn to shoot "real world" in the kind of setting and position that I'll have during competition season. If I can't get it dialed in now. I'll just be wasting my time in Sept. when season starts.
I'll have more opportunity tomorrow and again Friday, so I can play with shutter speed a little. I'm already in the "just barely over 1/125th" area....I think I was shooting today at 1/160th and maybe 1/250th.
Point is, my shots are no where near the quality of Mike, and he's shooting F4 1600ISO, and they're no where near the other's who have posted here.
I shoot in RAW and sometimes I have to push the exposure even more just to have a decent image. I have occasionally use NR too, but not too often.
Oh my bad. Was just looking at the specs for the 5d......ISO up to 25,600!! No wonder your shots are turning out so good. That thing has a crazy nice sensor!
Oh my bad. Was just looking at the specs for the 5d......ISO up to 25,600!! No wonder your shots are turning out so good. That thing has a crazy nice sensor!
No, I'm using the 'original' 5D, not the new 5DII.
No flash allowed in gymnastics events. So it's not an option at all.
This was a test, so I took it from the same location/angle as the first one, to see if the changes in camera settings were going to cope or not.
As far as taking the shots from another location, in a way, no, not really....and that's sort of how it is at all of these gyms. The spectator areas are usually in one location and you can sometimes move around somewhat within that area, but really, you get what you get, and you have to deal with it. Only the pros are allowed out on the floor with the gymnasts.
So I'm trying to learn to shoot "real world" in the kind of setting and position that I'll have during competition season. If I can't get it dialed in now. I'll just be wasting my time in Sept. when season starts.
I'll have more opportunity tomorrow and again Friday, so I can play with shutter speed a little. I'm already in the "just barely over 1/125th" area....I think I was shooting today at 1/160th and maybe 1/250th.
Point is, my shots are no where near the quality of Mike, and he's shooting F4 1600ISO, and they're no where near the other's who have posted here.
You just don't have my light in that spot. That looks to me like what is different between yours and the others. If that's all the light you have, then you will need more ISO (though I think your camera is already maxed out) or wider aperture (f/1.8 lens). I doubt you can go much slower on the shutter speed unless you just shoot a relatively static pose. Is there any place around you where you can rent a faster lens? For example, we have a rental shop nearby that offers a Canon 50 f/1.4 for $15/day or an 85 f/1.2 for $30/day.
Yeah, I didn't realize our gym had such bad lighting until this.
But..... Here's a shot taken in our gym by the gal with the Nikon D80 using the Nikkor 18-200/3.5-5.7 DX VR lens. Pretty darn nice. Especially when you compare it to what I'm getting right now. And when I asked what she was shooting, she didn't know the aperature range of the lens, and is shooting in "H1" which is 3200ISO and sports mode.
Yeah, I didn't realize our gym had such bad lighting until this.
But.....
Here's a shot taken in our gym by the gal with the Nikon D80 using the Nikkor 18-200/3.5-5.7 DX VR lens. Pretty darn nice. Especially when you compare it to what I'm getting right now. And when I asked what she was shooting, she didn't know the aperature range of the lens, and is shooting in "H1" which is 3200ISO and sports mode.
Looks like @ f/1.8 and 1/2500. At what ISO? Are you sure it's 1/2500?
Looks like @ f/1.8 and 1/2500. At what ISO? Are you sure it's 1/2500?
Too bad I can't see any faces....
I don't know. I'm going to see if she can bring her camera to the gym and maybe we can stand side-by-side, take pictures and see what camera is doing what, at what settings.
Looks like @ f/1.8 and 1/2500. At what ISO? Are you sure it's 1/2500?
Too bad I can't see any faces....
Still new to photography myself, but if this person is shooting with a Nikor 18-200 f/3.5-5.7 lens, wouldn't the widest aperture possible be 3.5, and that would be at the lens' widest setting, right? If I am totally out in left field, I will kindly go sit in the corner and shut up.... but will still continue to watch this thread since I primarily shoot indoor sports too.
Still new to photography myself, but if this person is shooting with a Nikor 18-200 f/3.5-5.7 lens, wouldn't the widest aperture possible be 3.5, and that would be at the lens' widest setting, right? If I am totally out in left field, I will kindly go sit in the corner and shut up.... but will still continue to watch this thread since I primarily shoot indoor sports too.
You're exactly right, and that's what's killing me about the pictures she gets. I'm going to email her this morning and get her to bring her rig down to the gym tonight.
When I initially called her (because everyone at the gym said she took great photos) she told me the local camera store suggested she buy the D80. She said the sales staff had taken a D80 out, asked customers in the store to jump up and down in front of it, and it took better photos than the Canons, and they figured the store was lit about as poorly as the gym. She bought the 18-200 lens right after that, because she wanted something that she could leave on all the time, ang get great close-ups and great zooms. I asked her what the aperature range was, and she didn't know, nor did she know how to find it. She said she just keeps the camera in sports mode with the ISO set to "H1".
Needless to say, I'm a little frustrated that I can't set this 40d to ISO3200, 1/250th, F2.8, Spot Metering, and AIServo focusing and start getting shots at least as good.
Quick question:
The camera didn't come with a card, so I bought a 4GB SanDisk Extreme III compact flash card. I just looked on the Canon and B&H Photo websites, and the specs list the 40d as only being compatible with Sandisk I and II. Could using a III cause any problems?
Quick question:
The camera didn't come with a card, so I bought a 4GB SanDisk Extreme III compact flash card. I just looked on the Canon and B&H Photo websites, and the specs list the 40d as only being compatible with Sandisk I and II. Could using a III cause any problems?
SanDisk Extreme III causes no problem with the 40D. You'll like the speed of the SD III when you off-loading the files to your computer.
The vault photo that you posted a few days ago has exif info that shows it was taken with a Nikon D200 at 1/2500 sec shutter speed and an 85mm lens set at f/1.8. Maybe the exif info is incorrect, but if those are indeed the settings then it's no question why the photo came out fine.
If you're comparing your result with the other person's, you need to use the same subject and lighting condition. Your test photos are backlit, which is not an optimal lighting condition. Ask the coach for permission to shoot from the other side during training and see if the result is better. Also keep in mind that AF speed of the lens does make a difference when you try to track a moving subject.
Here's my recommendation for the 40D:
- Use manual mode (M) and set your ISO, aperture, and shutter speed for the correct exposure.
- Use RAW file format.
- Remove the AF function from the shutter button and focus using your thumb and the AF-ON button instead (set custom function C.Fn IV-1 to #2, page 160 of manual).
- Set AF mode to AI Servo and select all AF points - this setting combo allows you to use the center AF point to lock focus and helps you track a moving subject using the surrounding AF points (middle of page 77 of manual).
- Don't use high ISO speed noise reduction (C.Fn II-2) since it will greatly decrease max burst for continuous shooting.
- Read the manual, be familiar with your camera and know its limitations.
The 40D is a very capable camera if you know how to take advantage of its strengths.
Cuong
"She Was a Little Taste of Heaven – And a One-Way Ticket to Hell!" - Max Phillips
Fantastic info as always. Been reading, and yesterday even updated the firmware version via the Canon website, put the camera in my name and changed the time stamp. So I'm slowly climbing the mountain!
I have been shooting manual mode only in the gym, but had only the center focus point active (thinking that would help me keep just my kidlet in focus) but hadn't advance to turning off the auto-focus half press and using the back "AF on" button. I like that idea.
I also loaded the Canon photo processing software onto my computer so I can start playing with that. I know it's not as good as photoshop, but it will at least allow me to start learning about tweaking RAW images....and for now, I'd rather spend money on glass. I had a great Adobe photo processing program that was proprietary on my old HP machine, but when it's hard drive grenaded, I lost that cool program for ever. I did a ton of cool stuff with that, and I still miss it.
That's really interesting about the exif info on that vault photo.....and that's exactly why I want to stand right next to her and see what she's got, what her lens and settings are, and how photos compare, when taken at the same time/location/settnigs as my camera. Not to be a naye-sayer, but I just don't see how she's getting the shots she's sending me, using a D80 and an f3.5-5.whatever 18-200 zoom...in sports mode. I tried sports mode the other day just to see what my camera thought it should set to, and it was at something like 1/60th, 400ISO and the F2.8 that my lens was. No way I could have gotten any sort of shot like that.
I'll keep you posted after I go toe-to-toe with the D80!
Got to the bottom of the discrepancy on that vault photo:
Went down to the camera store where the D80 was purchased and they know this gal really well. She is in fact shooting as I've described; D80, in sports mode, Nikkor 18-200/3.5-5.7 DX VR lens, with the camera holding and ISO of 3200 in that H1 setting. But.....she keeps the focus in manual mode, focuses off the floor or apparatus, and then waits for the shot to come to her.
That vault photo was taken by a gal who's a sales clerk in the camera store. They too are shocked at how nice the D80 and zoom are doing, so the sales clerk to a D200 and a 1.8 lens down to the gym during our Oct. meet, and did comparison shooting next to the D80. She said there was almost no difference between the D80 and D200 w/ F1.8 lens!! Pretty amazing. In fact, we all had sort of a laugh, because we all agreed the D80 and that lens really shouldn't be able to do that good of a job.
Oh, and she's shooting jpeg and does no PP!!
The other news is that I took a look a their 85mm/1.8 and it gave 1/500th at 1600ISO on a Canon XS they had. The camera store is about as light inside as our gym. Then we put on the 70-200/2.8 and that dropped the shutter speed to 1/125th.
That little test made me think that a couple of <2.0 primes might be more useful than one $900-$1,000 F2.8 zoom. I kind of hate to be "locked" in to only what a prime can do though because as we know, the girls are always doing something, and I'd hate to miss a shot because I'm sitting there with a fixed lens and can't zoom in for some fun candids.
Update: brace yourselves, it's kinda long! Met with the gal who's using the D80 & Nikkor 18-200mm/3.5-5.6 zoom yesterday.
Really enjoyed the practice shoot we did. I decided that in order to be on par with her equipment (so as to get the best comparison possible) I'd use my Canon 70-210mm/F4 zoom, leave the camera at 3200ISO and then use her "Manual Focus" method......plus try some different metering and auto focus styles. I also shot in RAW so I could play around in PP afterwards (okay....that doesn't sound right does it )
The gym owner saw us both shooting together and decided she'd turn on all the overhead lights. Once that came up to full power, there was quite a bit of light and now I can see how that 18-200 lens is able to do it's thing. It did fine, and so did my camera locked at F4.0. We were able to get 1/250th or a stop better, most of the time. Stopping motion was not so much an issue any more.
Started out with shots of some of the girls doing split jumps on the floor, and stopping that motion was no problem. Then zoomed all the way out for the balance beams at the far end of the gym, I was able to stop split jumps on the beam, and back-hand-spring-step-outs on the beam were getting frozen too. Then I tried my hand at a bunch of candids because the L4 and L5 girls were really being cute.
These are right out of the camera, except I've resized and converted to Jpeg so that they load fast. I also cropped them so just the subject was showing. They look grainy on the computer screen, but when printed out at 5x7, look decent/good. A good start anyway.
I'm pretty pleased considering I was shooting a 10+ year old F4 zoom at 3200ISO. I'm not looking for poster sized prints, or sports illustrated magazine quality, so to me, these are pretty decent. I can't imagine how much better they'd be with the $900 F2.8 zoom, or a $400 F1.8 or 1.4 prime...so now I'm really hot for better glass!
Oh, and I got to hold and shoot the D80. Nice camera. Not quite as heavy or big as my 40d, but still felt like a "real" camera. Once I got my hand wrapped around it, it fit nice. I didn't really like the front toothed wheel that faces forward, but the rear toothed wheel was in the perfect spot. The menus were very different from the Canon, and in a way much more user friendly, and man is there a lot of selectible stuff......more so than on the Canon. And......she can keep the ISO at whatever she wants, and still use Sports Mode. My 40d won't allow that. I got her to take it out of spors mode and try manual and her pictures were even better.
One thing I really liked was how my zoom lens slides for zoom adjustment vs. her twist-to-zoom style lens. That really made my lens fast to use. Not that it's really a factor in gymastics, but it allowed me to go from an over-all view to a crop, very quickly. I did like her 18mm-200mm range though. Really was extremely useful in the gym. My 70mm's was okay and allowed me to shoot the girls on the closer equipment, but with that 18mm range, she could turn around and take a photo of someone standing next to her and then go right back to shooting out on the floor. Pretty cool. Makes me want the Canon version ($595) and it makes me sort of not want any primes. I liked the freedom to shoot a variety.
Anyway..... your CC's are welcome of course......I have plenty to learn from you folks!
Nice result. Glad you got to the bottom of things. You got 1/250 sec at f/4 means a better lens at f/2.8 would give you 1/500 sec or 1/250 sec at ISO 1600 for less noise. Speaking of noise, I highly recommend Noiseware. You can download and use the free community edition, which doesn't have batch processing and doesn't retain the exif data. If you intend to shoot a lot of gymnastics, invest in the standard or pro edition. The batch processing is well worth the money.
Cuong
"She Was a Little Taste of Heaven – And a One-Way Ticket to Hell!" - Max Phillips
Thanks, you guys have been a ton of help and VERY patient with my learning curve.
Noiseware is on the shopping list. Before buyin it I want to play around with the noise reduction features in the Digital Photo Professional software that came on CD w/ the camera, just to see how it compares.
I was back in the gym today. Tried out a Tamron 28-300/3.5-6.3. Worthless, BUT....it was fun to play around with reach of that lens. 300 is just about the right amount of zoom, and pulling back to 28 for really close stuff was sure nice.
After playing around a bit with that, I popped the Canon 70-210/4 back on because there was enough light to play around with manual focus and getting some candids and whatnot.
Here are some of my favorites:
My own daughter, but I missed the focus darn it:
another thing you need to remeber is at f2.8 you have to be right on target or you will get blurry from DOF. I dont see why you cannot shoot in sports mode with the 40D and still stay at your highest ISO. You can also go into shutter priority and let the camera pick your aperature. your 70-210 is NOT a birght lens so wont help you too much. also try getting out of spot mode, and see if your shsots are better, also may check the white balnce, notice how much yellower your shots are ?
Maybe I've missed it, but I haven't figured out how to lock the ISO and still be in sports mode. I don't think I want to be shooting in a programmed mode anyway, but when I've played with sports mode a little, the camera has chosen the ISO, F-stop, and shutter speed....and they've been settings like 400ISO and 1/60th. But as I say, it may be me just not knowing how to use that function.
I've been playing around with WB in PP and since I'm shooting in RAW, it seems there's quite a bit of lee-way for adjustment there.
Why is spot metering a bad choice? I've tried "center weighted average" and that seems to work fairly well too.
Proud owner of my first piece of L glass
Happy to say that I pulled the trigger on the Canon 70-200/2.8 non-IS today. Found one locally, which is nothing short of a miracle, on Craigslist. In perfect cosmetic condition with caps, hood and Canon soft case. $850
Tried it out tonight during their 90min conditioning class. Not all the overhead lights were on and I was able to shoot 1/320th at 1600ISO. I popped the F4 zoom on and could only get 1/100th at 1600ISO. So with all the lighting powered up, I may be able to shoot somewhere around 1/500th? Or try dropping to 800ISO and see what I get.
I'm right in between Los Angeles and San Francisco, so it's Craigslist heaven out here. Been looking for about a month now and couldn't find anything decent below $950. And with that, I would have to drive 7+hrs round trip, burn $50 in fuel (VW Rabbit Diesel Pickup ) and blow an 8+hr day doing it.
So to find one in absolute perfect condition, with all of it original stuff (less the box) was really a score.
Now we'll find out where the rubber meets the road....and if I'm man enough to swing this bad-boy. Or........am I just a poser
The next challenge is what gear bag I'll use at meets. My 40d came with one of those nice $60-something Canon gear bags which is great for the body, and some normal lenses, flash and battery grip standing upright. But everything's got to come out, including the pads, in order to fit the body w/ 2.8.
Competition season is fast approaching. Have you been practicing?
Cuong
Yes, but not in a few weeks. I also resolved the carry case/bag issue by scoring a LowePro (small) backpack that just big enough for the camera with lens attached.
In about a month I'll get back into my weekly practice shoots.
The last time I was shooting was during an outdoor exhibition they put on downtown during Farmer's Market. Gave me a chance to take advantage of the 28-300 Tamron that I have. I don't know if it's a very good quality lens, but I sure love the versatility of it's range. Really fun to use.
I'm still having trouble with focus and deciding when to us manual focus, as well as, when in auto focus, remembering to watch where the center focus square is at so I don't wind up focusing on a background object when my subject moves out of the center area. So plenty of learning still to do.
You might want to consider my suggestion in post #46 of this thread. I would not consider manual focusing during competition. Also test and verify that the lens you're using can focus properly (not front or back focus). I found out the hard way last season that my brand new 85mm f/1.8 lens was back focusing after the meet. Needless to say, almost all of the photos taken with that lens went in the trash.
Cuong
"She Was a Little Taste of Heaven – And a One-Way Ticket to Hell!" - Max Phillips
Comments
If you're at ISO 3200 and f/2.8 already, then you just need more exposure. That means more light (a different location in the gym or a flash), slower shutter speed (I don't know what you shot this one at) or larger aperture (an f/1.8 lens). What about using flash?
This one can be processed a bit in Photoshop to bring shadows up, highlights down and do some noise reduction, but that's only a last resort - you need to fix one of the previous things.
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This was a test, so I took it from the same location/angle as the first one, to see if the changes in camera settings were going to cope or not.
As far as taking the shots from another location, in a way, no, not really....and that's sort of how it is at all of these gyms. The spectator areas are usually in one location and you can sometimes move around somewhat within that area, but really, you get what you get, and you have to deal with it. Only the pros are allowed out on the floor with the gymnasts.
So I'm trying to learn to shoot "real world" in the kind of setting and position that I'll have during competition season. If I can't get it dialed in now. I'll just be wasting my time in Sept. when season starts.
I'll have more opportunity tomorrow and again Friday, so I can play with shutter speed a little. I'm already in the "just barely over 1/125th" area....I think I was shooting today at 1/160th and maybe 1/250th.
Point is, my shots are no where near the quality of Mike, and he's shooting F4 1600ISO, and they're no where near the other's who have posted here.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
No, I'm shooting at ISO 3200.
I shoot in RAW and sometimes I have to push the exposure even more just to have a decent image. I have occasionally use NR too, but not too often.
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Oh my bad. Was just looking at the specs for the 5d......ISO up to 25,600!! No wonder your shots are turning out so good. That thing has a crazy nice sensor!
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
No, I'm using the 'original' 5D, not the new 5DII.
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But.....
Here's a shot taken in our gym by the gal with the Nikon D80 using the Nikkor 18-200/3.5-5.7 DX VR lens. Pretty darn nice. Especially when you compare it to what I'm getting right now. And when I asked what she was shooting, she didn't know the aperature range of the lens, and is shooting in "H1" which is 3200ISO and sports mode.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Looks like @ f/1.8 and 1/2500. At what ISO? Are you sure it's 1/2500?
Too bad I can't see any faces....
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I don't know. I'm going to see if she can bring her camera to the gym and maybe we can stand side-by-side, take pictures and see what camera is doing what, at what settings.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Still new to photography myself, but if this person is shooting with a Nikor 18-200 f/3.5-5.7 lens, wouldn't the widest aperture possible be 3.5, and that would be at the lens' widest setting, right? If I am totally out in left field, I will kindly go sit in the corner and shut up.... but will still continue to watch this thread since I primarily shoot indoor sports too.
You're exactly right, and that's what's killing me about the pictures she gets. I'm going to email her this morning and get her to bring her rig down to the gym tonight.
When I initially called her (because everyone at the gym said she took great photos) she told me the local camera store suggested she buy the D80. She said the sales staff had taken a D80 out, asked customers in the store to jump up and down in front of it, and it took better photos than the Canons, and they figured the store was lit about as poorly as the gym. She bought the 18-200 lens right after that, because she wanted something that she could leave on all the time, ang get great close-ups and great zooms. I asked her what the aperature range was, and she didn't know, nor did she know how to find it. She said she just keeps the camera in sports mode with the ISO set to "H1".
Needless to say, I'm a little frustrated that I can't set this 40d to ISO3200, 1/250th, F2.8, Spot Metering, and AIServo focusing and start getting shots at least as good.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
The camera didn't come with a card, so I bought a 4GB SanDisk Extreme III compact flash card. I just looked on the Canon and B&H Photo websites, and the specs list the 40d as only being compatible with Sandisk I and II. Could using a III cause any problems?
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
The vault photo that you posted a few days ago has exif info that shows it was taken with a Nikon D200 at 1/2500 sec shutter speed and an 85mm lens set at f/1.8. Maybe the exif info is incorrect, but if those are indeed the settings then it's no question why the photo came out fine.
If you're comparing your result with the other person's, you need to use the same subject and lighting condition. Your test photos are backlit, which is not an optimal lighting condition. Ask the coach for permission to shoot from the other side during training and see if the result is better. Also keep in mind that AF speed of the lens does make a difference when you try to track a moving subject.
Here's my recommendation for the 40D:
- Use manual mode (M) and set your ISO, aperture, and shutter speed for the correct exposure.
- Use RAW file format.
- Remove the AF function from the shutter button and focus using your thumb and the AF-ON button instead (set custom function C.Fn IV-1 to #2, page 160 of manual).
- Set AF mode to AI Servo and select all AF points - this setting combo allows you to use the center AF point to lock focus and helps you track a moving subject using the surrounding AF points (middle of page 77 of manual).
- Don't use high ISO speed noise reduction (C.Fn II-2) since it will greatly decrease max burst for continuous shooting.
- Read the manual, be familiar with your camera and know its limitations.
The 40D is a very capable camera if you know how to take advantage of its strengths.
Cuong
I have been shooting manual mode only in the gym, but had only the center focus point active (thinking that would help me keep just my kidlet in focus) but hadn't advance to turning off the auto-focus half press and using the back "AF on" button. I like that idea.
I also loaded the Canon photo processing software onto my computer so I can start playing with that. I know it's not as good as photoshop, but it will at least allow me to start learning about tweaking RAW images....and for now, I'd rather spend money on glass. I had a great Adobe photo processing program that was proprietary on my old HP machine, but when it's hard drive grenaded, I lost that cool program for ever. I did a ton of cool stuff with that, and I still miss it.
That's really interesting about the exif info on that vault photo.....and that's exactly why I want to stand right next to her and see what she's got, what her lens and settings are, and how photos compare, when taken at the same time/location/settnigs as my camera. Not to be a naye-sayer, but I just don't see how she's getting the shots she's sending me, using a D80 and an f3.5-5.whatever 18-200 zoom...in sports mode. I tried sports mode the other day just to see what my camera thought it should set to, and it was at something like 1/60th, 400ISO and the F2.8 that my lens was. No way I could have gotten any sort of shot like that.
I'll keep you posted after I go toe-to-toe with the D80!
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Went down to the camera store where the D80 was purchased and they know this gal really well. She is in fact shooting as I've described; D80, in sports mode, Nikkor 18-200/3.5-5.7 DX VR lens, with the camera holding and ISO of 3200 in that H1 setting. But.....she keeps the focus in manual mode, focuses off the floor or apparatus, and then waits for the shot to come to her.
That vault photo was taken by a gal who's a sales clerk in the camera store. They too are shocked at how nice the D80 and zoom are doing, so the sales clerk to a D200 and a 1.8 lens down to the gym during our Oct. meet, and did comparison shooting next to the D80. She said there was almost no difference between the D80 and D200 w/ F1.8 lens!! Pretty amazing. In fact, we all had sort of a laugh, because we all agreed the D80 and that lens really shouldn't be able to do that good of a job.
Oh, and she's shooting jpeg and does no PP!!
The other news is that I took a look a their 85mm/1.8 and it gave 1/500th at 1600ISO on a Canon XS they had. The camera store is about as light inside as our gym. Then we put on the 70-200/2.8 and that dropped the shutter speed to 1/125th.
That little test made me think that a couple of <2.0 primes might be more useful than one $900-$1,000 F2.8 zoom. I kind of hate to be "locked" in to only what a prime can do though because as we know, the girls are always doing something, and I'd hate to miss a shot because I'm sitting there with a fixed lens and can't zoom in for some fun candids.
Decisions.....decisions<img src="https://us.v-cdn.net/6029383/emoji/headscratch.gif" border="0" alt="" >
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Met with the gal who's using the D80 & Nikkor 18-200mm/3.5-5.6 zoom yesterday.
Really enjoyed the practice shoot we did. I decided that in order to be on par with her equipment (so as to get the best comparison possible) I'd use my Canon 70-210mm/F4 zoom, leave the camera at 3200ISO and then use her "Manual Focus" method......plus try some different metering and auto focus styles. I also shot in RAW so I could play around in PP afterwards (okay....that doesn't sound right does it
The gym owner saw us both shooting together and decided she'd turn on all the overhead lights. Once that came up to full power, there was quite a bit of light and now I can see how that 18-200 lens is able to do it's thing. It did fine, and so did my camera locked at F4.0. We were able to get 1/250th or a stop better, most of the time. Stopping motion was not so much an issue any more.
Started out with shots of some of the girls doing split jumps on the floor, and stopping that motion was no problem. Then zoomed all the way out for the balance beams at the far end of the gym, I was able to stop split jumps on the beam, and back-hand-spring-step-outs on the beam were getting frozen too. Then I tried my hand at a bunch of candids because the L4 and L5 girls were really being cute.
These are right out of the camera, except I've resized and converted to Jpeg so that they load fast. I also cropped them so just the subject was showing. They look grainy on the computer screen, but when printed out at 5x7, look decent/good. A good start anyway.
I'm pretty pleased considering I was shooting a 10+ year old F4 zoom at 3200ISO. I'm not looking for poster sized prints, or sports illustrated magazine quality, so to me, these are pretty decent. I can't imagine how much better they'd be with the $900 F2.8 zoom, or a $400 F1.8 or 1.4 prime...so now I'm really hot for better glass!
Oh, and I got to hold and shoot the D80. Nice camera. Not quite as heavy or big as my 40d, but still felt like a "real" camera. Once I got my hand wrapped around it, it fit nice. I didn't really like the front toothed wheel that faces forward, but the rear toothed wheel was in the perfect spot. The menus were very different from the Canon, and in a way much more user friendly, and man is there a lot of selectible stuff......more so than on the Canon. And......she can keep the ISO at whatever she wants, and still use Sports Mode. My 40d won't allow that. I got her to take it out of spors mode and try manual and her pictures were even better.
One thing I really liked was how my zoom lens slides for zoom adjustment vs. her twist-to-zoom style lens. That really made my lens fast to use. Not that it's really a factor in gymastics, but it allowed me to go from an over-all view to a crop, very quickly. I did like her 18mm-200mm range though. Really was extremely useful in the gym. My 70mm's was okay and allowed me to shoot the girls on the closer equipment, but with that 18mm range, she could turn around and take a photo of someone standing next to her and then go right back to shooting out on the floor. Pretty cool. Makes me want the Canon version ($595) and it makes me sort of not want any primes. I liked the freedom to shoot a variety.
Anyway..... your CC's are welcome of course......I have plenty to learn from you folks!
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Cuong
Noiseware is on the shopping list. Before buyin it I want to play around with the noise reduction features in the Digital Photo Professional software that came on CD w/ the camera, just to see how it compares.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
After playing around a bit with that, I popped the Canon 70-210/4 back on because there was enough light to play around with manual focus and getting some candids and whatnot.
Here are some of my favorites:
My own daughter, but I missed the focus darn it:
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
I've been playing around with WB in PP and since I'm shooting in RAW, it seems there's quite a bit of lee-way for adjustment there.
Why is spot metering a bad choice? I've tried "center weighted average" and that seems to work fairly well too.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Happy to say that I pulled the trigger on the Canon 70-200/2.8 non-IS today. Found one locally, which is nothing short of a miracle, on Craigslist. In perfect cosmetic condition with caps, hood and Canon soft case. $850
Tried it out tonight during their 90min conditioning class. Not all the overhead lights were on and I was able to shoot 1/320th at 1600ISO. I popped the F4 zoom on and could only get 1/100th at 1600ISO. So with all the lighting powered up, I may be able to shoot somewhere around 1/500th? Or try dropping to 800ISO and see what I get.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
So to find one in absolute perfect condition, with all of it original stuff (less the box) was really a score.
Now we'll find out where the rubber meets the road....and if I'm man enough to swing this bad-boy. Or........am I just a poser
The next challenge is what gear bag I'll use at meets. My 40d came with one of those nice $60-something Canon gear bags which is great for the body, and some normal lenses, flash and battery grip standing upright. But everything's got to come out, including the pads, in order to fit the body w/ 2.8.
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Cuong
Yes, but not in a few weeks. I also resolved the carry case/bag issue by scoring a LowePro (small) backpack that just big enough for the camera with lens attached.
In about a month I'll get back into my weekly practice shoots.
The last time I was shooting was during an outdoor exhibition they put on downtown during Farmer's Market. Gave me a chance to take advantage of the 28-300 Tamron that I have. I don't know if it's a very good quality lens, but I sure love the versatility of it's range. Really fun to use.
I'm still having trouble with focus and deciding when to us manual focus, as well as, when in auto focus, remembering to watch where the center focus square is at so I don't wind up focusing on a background object when my subject moves out of the center area. So plenty of learning still to do.
Here's a few from the last couple of practices:
My daughter on beam:
Canon 7D... Canon 70-200/2.8L IS... Canon 28-70/2.8L... Canon 135/f2L... Canon 85/1.8... Canon 50/1.4... Canon 28/1.8
Cuong