Fisheye vs UWA?

[rutt]

Now it's time for me to show off a small part what I don't know. In the wide angle world there seems to be a distinction between fisheyes and otherwise. I suppose it has to do how the lenses distort. My 10-22 EFS UWA distorts plenty at 10mm, but maybe not the same way as a fisheye. Please, someone who knows, fill me in. Thanks.

[Andy]

Now it's time for me to show off a small part what I don't know. In the wide angle world there seems to be a distinction between fisheyes and otherwise. I suppose it has to do how the lenses distort. My 10-22 EFS UWA distorts plenty at 10mm, but maybe not the same way as a fisheye. Please, someone who knows, fill me in. Thanks.

fisheye gives a circular image

10-22 and other uwa's are rectilinear, and while they distort the angles, the distortion is not circular.

sigma 8mm circular fisheye (http://www.pbase.com/image/33381900)

here's an example of the sigma 15mm fisheye (http://www.pbase.com/image/33378135)

but then, even with a fisheye you can do this, with a sigma 15mm fish (http://www.pbase.com/image/28915903) dunno if it was de-fished (using ptlens) but some folks do great landscape work with the canon and sigma fisheyes...

howzzat?

[Andy]

and furthermore

i've used the canon fish - it's exceptionally sharp - and has *massive* dof... these are creative lenses, and you can have a lot of fun with them. go to pbase, search, cameras, click on sigma and then the 15mm fisheye and also canon 15mm fisheye. the sigma's just as good, and cheaper, btw. focusing on both is a bit noisier than your other lenses, and a bit slower...but you're not shooting bifs or sports with these so, who cares, right?

fun fun fun fisheye fun

canon 15mm fisheye
http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13208222-L.jpg

[rutt]

Thanks, Andy. I also found this which might appeal to the nerdly:

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/field_of_view.html

[wxwax]

At the risk of boring people by repeating shots, I used a 15mm fisheye at the auto show last weekend. It was mounted on a camera with a 1.3 crop.

I was pleasantly surprised at how wide shots came out. I guess I thought they'd be near-circular. Far from it.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/19566728-M.jpg

I had been expecting to shove the camera close to things, and in this area I got pretty much what I expcected.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/19504110-M.jpg


I have said that I thought the lens was a little soft. But I'm not much of a judge of that sort of thing. Looking back, I guess I'm wrong.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/19503309-M.jpg

It is most definitely a fun lens to use. And I now realize it has many more uses than I had anticipated. I look forward to using it for landscapes and other wide shots.

BTW, I was able to get very narrow depth of field by opening wide and shoving the thing as close as I could to some flowers. So narrow was the DOF that the shots weren't any good - only a small part of the stamen was in focus.

[Andy]

love your examples, waxy.

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/8687059-M.jpg

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/8687057-M.jpg

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/14366941-M.jpg



here's some fish from angela johnson (http://www.pbase.com/ziggers/fisheye) good stuff!

[wxwax]

Andy, I'm not going near you in Yosemite, and I'm never going to tell you when I'm in NYC, and just on principle I hope we never run into each other.

Here I am working out hard three times a week, sorta kinda maybe watching what I eat.... and then I see you gulleting (new word) all the deadliest and tastiest foods in the world.

It's too much and I won't stand for it. :bluduh

[Andy]

Andy, I'm not going near you in Yosemite, and I'm never going to tell you when I'm in NYC, and just on principle I hope we never run into each other.

Here I am working out hard three times a week, sorta kinda maybe watching what I eat.... and then I see you gulleting (new word) all the deadliest and tastiest foods in the world.

It's too much and I won't stand for it. :bluduh

:lol3 note the breakfast shot: four people at table, including the photographer... 2nd eldest son camera left, he's got *two* plates.. eggs, homefries, toast, bacon, sausage, and just for the heluvit, a double belgian waffle :uhoh and and hour later, he had lunch.... teenagers... sigh

[wxwax]

:lol3 note the breakfast shot: four people at table, including the photographer... 2nd eldest son camera left, he's got *two* plates.. eggs, homefries, toast, bacon, sausage, and just for the heluvit, a double belgian waffle :uhoh and and hour later, he had lunch.... teenagers... sigh
It's those damned waffles that did it. Now I'm thinking ihop for dinner. Thanks a million. :bluduh :bluduh :hotcake

[patch29]

It's those damned waffles that did it. Now I'm thinking ihop for dinner. Thanks a million. :bluduh :bluduh :hotcake


Great, I was thinking pizza, now I am thinking Waffle House. :wxwax

[Andy]

here's the finished product from one of the shots above, this is from katz's deli in nyc :eat

canon 15mm fisheye. fisheye is great for food :lol3
http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/19805846-L.jpg

[wxwax]

:wxwax

Hey, I didn't realize you had a fisheye. Just get it?

[Andy]

n.b.

the fish will distort facial features - you may not want to use this on da laydeez....

canon 15mm fish (grain added in post)
http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/19806472-L.jpg

[Andy]

:wxwax

Hey, I didn't realize you had a fisheye. Just get it?

i had a fisheye... returned it... i'm missing it now and so i think i'm gonna get it again. monday, off to b&h, batman!

i'm adding the fish to: 135 f/2L ...

[wxwax]

i had a fisheye... returned it... i'm missing it now and so i think i'm gonna get it again. monday, off to b&h, batman!

i'm adding the fish to: 135 f/2L ...
:lol3 These are a few of my favorite things...

[Andy]

so, uwa lenses will give some serious perspective distortion, but not in the same way as the fishies... how much you get depends on how you hold the camera, the angles and lines in your shot, etc....

10mm on 10-22 ef-s lens by canon:

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/18247756-L.jpg

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/17682864-L.jpg

[wxwax]

A couple more fisheyes from last night, both cropped on one side.

I curse Andy for the first one. :wxwax


http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/19844241-M.jpg

And the desert I didn't have the stomach for, thank goodness.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/19844239-M.jpg

[Andy]

A couple more fisheyes from last night, both cropped one one side.

I curse Andy for the first one. :wxwax

breakfast for dinner is one of life's grand grand pleasures :nod

[ian408]

breakfast for dinner is one of life's grand grand pleasures :nod
Indeed it is.

Ian

[Andy]

sid, you need some more waffle with yer butter :lol3

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/19844241-M.jpg




And the desert I didn't have the stomach for, thank goodness.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/19844239-M.jpg[/QUOTE]

wuss. need to get you up into the big leagues. may 7th yuh-huh

[patch29]

I curse Andy for the first one. :wxwax

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/19844241-S.jpg

TWO WAFFLES!!!! or did you have a partner in crime?

Andy, where is the little piggy smilie? :rofl

[wxwax]

TWO WAFFLES!!!! or did you have a partner in crime?

Andy, where is the little piggy smilie? :rofl
:food :food :food

[ian408]

TWO WAFFLES!!!! or did you have a partner in crime?

Andy, where is the little piggy smilie? :rofl
Plus bacon and sausage.

Please also note 1 coffee cup and 1 glass OJ. I think he was by hisself :D

Now if I could just work out what was on the plate in the back...

[Andy]

oink

oink

b'doink!

[Andy]

canon 10-22 ef-s, at 10mm

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/19877148-L.jpg

[DoctorIt]

This thread is more food than lens!!! I quit. You can find me over at FM with the real photographers.





:hide



No, seriously, I have a question that should definitely be answered here. What is the difference between a diagonal and circular fisheye? Sigma has both, the 8mm is circular and the 15mm is diagonal.
:dunno

[DoctorIt]

And BTW, Andy, thanks for this photo: it really hammers the point home about UWA vs fisheye :thumb

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/18247756-S.jpg

[Andy]

This thread is more food than lens!!! I quit. You can find me over at FM with the real photographers.





:hide



No, seriously, I have a question that should definitely be answered here. What is the difference between a diagonal and circular fisheye? Sigma has both, the 8mm is circular and the 15mm is diagonal.
:dunno

circular will dramatically distort like this (http://www.pbase.com/image/37455407) diagonal will not (so much)... as you see with the fish example in this thread..

here's an interesting piece (http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/technical/field_of_view.html) you might enjoy reading.

[DoctorIt]

yeah, i figured that much. but andy, you're dealing with a nosey engineer: i want specifics that even bob couldn't answer, although that was right up my alley! thanks :thumb

[Andy]

yeah, i figured that much. but andy, you're dealing with a nose-picking engineer: i want specifics that even bob couldn't answer, although that was right up my alley! thanks :thumb


fixed that for ya, doc :lol3





:hide

[DoctorIt]

fixed that for ya, doc :lol3

same difference right? :rolleyes

[Andy]

And BTW, Andy, thanks for this photo: it really hammers the point home about UWA vs fisheye :thumb

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/18247756-Ti.jpg

thanks doc,

i really love this pic - -looks great on my 30" monitor as desktop :D

[NHBubba]

Fish eye lenses are almost more fun than is permitted by US law!

A rectilinear lens preserves straight lines, while a fish eye distort them. This means if you have a straight line in your photograph that does NOT go through the very center of the lens, then it will be bent by the fisheye, but not by the rectilinear.
the fish will distort facial features - you may not want to use this on da laydeez....There's some serious truth there! Although some can be good sports.
http://www.pbase.com/image/33827735/large.jpg (http://www.pbase.com/image/33827735/original)
My GF at a wedding. Canon DRebel w/ Sigma 8mm circular fish, cropped..


I have another great one of her and her uncle next to each other w/ the same lens, however it is not cropped and shows the full reach of the lens. Unfortunately I don't have it online.
No, seriously, I have a question that should definitely be answered here. What is the difference between a diagonal and circular fisheye? Sigma has both, the 8mm is circular and the 15mm is diagonal.
:dunnoI have used both the Sigma 8mm circular and the Canon 15mm fish, which is functionaly similar to the Sigma of the same focal length. The difference has nothing to do w/ the distortion, but instead the coverage of the lens. The 8mm circular has a 180 degree field of view in both the horizontal AND the vertical. Obviously this means vignetting, especially in the corners and on the horizontal. The 15mm 'diagonal' fish covers 180 degrees in the diagonal of the frame, from corner to opposite corner.

..Remember all of that is on a 1x crop frame though. I shoot w/ a DRebel, so I've got a 1.6x crop to deal w/. The Sigma 8mm covers just a touch over 180 degrees in the horizontal w/ a 1.6x crop. Again, there is vignetting in the corners and touch on the horizontal edges, but none on the top or bottom. I've never done the math to figure the vertical FOV, but it is obviously far less than the full 180 degrees the lens is capable of covering. I find this lens to be just about perfect for full 360x360 panoramas. 6 shots gets you full coverage and PLENTY of overlap for stitching. Technically I think it could be done w/ as little as 4 shots. But remember, fish eyes have poor resolution near the edges by definition, so it's best to overlap this and use the centers of each shot to maximize resolution and sharpness.

I've never bothered to measure the actual FOV of the Canon 15mm fish, although it is far less than 180 degree in all dimensions, due to the crop. It's basically like a really wide angle lens w/ some serious disortion. Of course it can be de-fished in software fairly easy. I think the 15 f/2.8 lens (either Canon or Sigma) is a great candidate for such use. It gives you a really wide angle, fast lens w/ great sharpness for a reasonable bargian..

I someday hope to own both the 8 and the 15.. and maybe a cropped version that delivers a full circular coverage as the 8 does for full frame..

[Andy]

[QUOTE=NHBubba] [QUOTE]

lovely shot, bubba - and wonderful post! thank you very much for playing our game :deal

[patch29]

I took this shot with the Sigma 8mm at PMA 2004 on my 1Ds, add this lens to the reasons to want a FF camera. It is a cool lens. I would not mind owning one.

http://patch29.smugmug.com/photos/20123942-L.jpg

[Andy]

I took this shot with the Sigma 8mm at PMA 2004 on my 1Ds, add this lens to the reasons to want a FF camera. It is a cool lens. I would not mind owning one.

http://patch29.smugmug.com/photos/20123942-Ti.jpg

very cool patch!

[NHBubba]

lovely shot, bubba - and wonderful post! thank you very much for playing our game :deal'Our game'?! I don't get it. Did I do something 'wrong'?!? :scratch
I took this shot with the Sigma 8mm at PMA 2004 on my 1Ds, add this lens to the reasons to want a FF camera. It is a cool lens. I would not mind owning one.Agreed. However my friend who owns the Sigma 8 and I were speculating that a full circular fish eye for cropped cameras will probably be offered sometime in the near future. W/ all Nikon dSLRs at 1.5x and the Canon 1.6x cameras being so popular Sigma could probably sell more than a couple such lenses. I know I'd want one.. if I could afford it is another subject..

I have since picked up and tried the Canon 10-22 rectilinear. What a WEIRD lens! I guess that I'm just so used to seeing things THAT wide w/ the fish-eye distortion that the lens completely weirds me out. I snapped a shot of the back of my truck out in the lot and can't get over it..

http://www.pbase.com/image/42569809.jpg

Werid no?!

I've got nearly similar shots w/ the Sigma 8mm fish and the Canon 10-22. Pardon the crappy exposure. Clearly wide angle shots require more attention to get the exposure right, particularly when involving so much contrast!


http://www.pbase.com/image/33615734.jpg

Sigma 8mm Fish on DRebel




http://www.pbase.com/image/42569813.jpg
Canon 10-22 @ 10mm on DRebel