I Don't Care What the "Going Rate" is!!!

[exploderpilot]

I have recieved some hateful emails from a few pro photographers competing for work in my area, (i will keep these poor souls anonymous) and I am just at my wits end with this whole pricing argument! I don't know if any of these people are members here, but let me just make this clear: good quality family photos should not be a priveledge of the wealthy. As i stated to someone in a PM earlier, when I decided to start taking money for my photographs, I came up with my prices based on what I thought was a fair amount to ask, not what other people were charging. As far as I'm concerned, as long as my customers are happy, and referring me more work, and I am happy with the money I'm bringing in, then that's all that matters! One of the guys I took a customer from charged more than 100 dollars per hour MORE than me! I won't post my rates, because none of you need a photographer, but let me say this, it's a dog eat dog world, and I'm eating well. I just bought a new lexus. And quite frankly, I did it with a 20D, and I don't care who is struggling to pay off their new MarkII. Maybe they should be in it for the customer, and they would have as many as I do......

[Super DooDiE]

lol... Well said.

Customer Service is key. They more happy ones you have, the more they will refer to you. :D

[anwmn1]

I have recieved some hateful emails from a few pro photographers competing for work in my area, (i will keep these poor souls anonymous) and I am just at my wits end with this whole pricing argument! I don't know if any of these people are members here, but let me just make this clear: good quality family photos should not be a priveledge of the wealthy. As i stated to someone in a PM earlier, when I decided to start taking money for my photographs, I came up with my prices based on what I thought was a fair amount to ask, not what other people were charging. As far as I'm concerned, as long as my customers are happy, and referring me more work, and I am happy with the money I'm bringing in, then that's all that matters! One of the guys I took a customer from charged more than 100 dollars per hour MORE than me! I won't post my rates, because none of you need a photographer, but let me say this, it's a dog eat dog world, and I'm eating well. I just bought a new lexus. And quite frankly, I did it with a 20D, and I don't care who is struggling to pay off their new MarkII. Maybe they should be in it for the customer, and they would have as many as I do......

I agree with you in many ways. I am not doing photography full time but I charge what I feel like charging. I do not advertise my prices because quite frankly- I change them based on my customer as well as based on my skills.

I am doing a Wedding for what some would call 'Very Cheap' but it is based on what I feel I can offer as well as the financial situation of the customer. I know many would not agree with that but it is my business and I will do what I please. I do not need to make money at photography- therefore I am flexible.

I notice you do not have a link to your website- is that because you have pricing showing on the site?

[exploderpilot]

No, my website is actually nothing more than a single page with an email link, and really hasn't gotten me any customers. It's all word of mouth, my own as well as others. To be honest, I have only actually charged a set rate on a few occasions.
The average deal happens something like this.
Customer: How much do you charge?
Me: How much can you spend?
Customer: Not much!
Me: A little less than that, plus prints.

[exploderpilot]

For King of The Cage:
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/exploderpilot23/IMG_1207.jpg
Not even a great picture, but I got paid, and went on the trip to the fight all expenses paid!
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/exploderpilot23/l_b8af9cdfa5c725d32803dc3dcf9020fa.jpg
I do a little custom photoshop work, lots of money there if you can capture what they want. This one 8x10 made me 45 bucks.
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c134/exploderpilot23/theliftbw.jpg
This engagement session had 2 locations, and lasted 4 hours. I charged them 100 bucks.

[Barefoot and Natural]

I 100% agree with everything you said!! I am also tired of hearing the "cheap photographers" are taking all the business and "if the memories are THAT important price should be no object".

Give me a break.....these people should not be exploiting someone's pocket book just to make them feel their moment is not important enough to pay "Top Dollar"

[exploderpilot]

That's it! I'm gonna start the 20D revolution!

[DavidTO]

You worked for $25/hour plus processing time? You ARE a cheap date.

I dunno, my time is worth a lot more than that to me.

[exploderpilot]

yeah, on that particular job I worked for 25 an hour. The fact is though, that pure volume, and constant word of mouth advertising keeps be booked nonstop with low and high paying customers. I f you refuse to take a customer at 25 an hour, you just refused everyone they know too. And when the economy slows down like it is now, those are bread and butter customers that keep the lights on in the house and gas in my new LS460L that i put 33 grand down on....

[Scott_Quier]

I shoot with a pair of 30D cameras and charge quite a bit under market. My prices are the same for all my clients, but I don't ask them to mortgage their first-born to pay for anything. I charge significantly less then most home mortgage payments (if you really want to know how much, visit my web-site).

So, I have to say that I agree with the tone and intent of the OP's post, but not all the content. I charge enough to make expenses and enough on top of that to "get me out of bed" for the job. But, I also have to say that part of my compensation is the sheer joy I experience when I'm shooting the happy occasions - yes, I'm a card carrying romantic and proud of it!!:D

[exploderpilot]

Ditto on the hopeless romantic thing. There have been quite a few occasions where I shot two hours of family photos where my only pay was reimbursement for my travel and the smile on their faces. And yes, I have actually gone completely pro-bono a few times, for upwards of 50-60 bucks out of MY pocket. But the trade off for that, was that those people immediately got on the phone and told everyone they know about the wonderful photographer they met! Right now, my client list is around 1300.

[SloYerRoll]

I dunno, my time is worth a lot more than that to me.:agree

Those photogs shouldn't be too concerned if those three shots are your A game shots. JMO.

[DrDavid]

:agree

Those photogs shouldn't be too concerned if those three shots are your A game shots. JMO.He miust be charging a LOT for prints... $25/hr, yet has a Lexus? hmm...

David

[exploderpilot]

But that's part of my point. Those may or may not be A game shots, but the customers were happy. The thing a lot of you "big time" photographers lose sight of is the fact that it doesn't matter one bit how much you, or the other dgrinners in the whipping post forum appreciate the photos. Just to illustrate this, I want every pro photog on here to ask their next client what bokeh is. Ask them if they like chromatic aberration. They won't have a clue. What they want is a picture to remember a moment by, and at a price that makes it possible to get more than they bargained for. You can laugh all day about walmart quality prints, but walmart sells a hell of a lot more pictures than any of us now don't they?

[i_worship_the_King]

While I agree with almost everything you've said here, one thing that sticks out is this notion of "Professional Grade." If the customer cannot tell the difference, they're certainly not going to pay for it. Professionals charge high amounts and they deliver on high quality - consistently and quickly in all conditions; rain/shine/low light/daylight.

It seems what you're selling lies somewhere between a dad with a big-budget D80 and a professional with a 1DsMkIII and a backpack full of L glass. And that's ok! The truth is everyone cannot tell the difference between a pro printer and walmart! They have budget X, you can get them Y for the price.

I'm not ashamed to sell 'non-pro' photos any day of the week. The simple fact is that I had a good time doing it, it's better than being out mowing the blame grass, and (honestly) all I'm out to do is pay for more gear. If I make a ton of cash doing, I'd buy me a nex car too. Maybe a Land Rover, you know, to get those really awesome nature shots, - all the walking.

[exploderpilot]

You know, I thought about getting the range rover it was actually a few bucks cheaper, but maybe I'll steal enough customers and ruin the art enough to buy one next year!

[SloYerRoll]

The client doesn't need to know what bokeh or anything else is. That's why they hire the professional.

At this point, you just sound like your on a soapbox trying to stir things up. Have fun.

Unsubscribed.

[DrDavid]

Don't feed the trolls...

[claudermilk]

And this started out as such an interesting discussion. All I have to say is if there's enough profit to buy a luxury car, the OP is obviously doing something right & the competition probably needs to sharpen their pencils a bit.

In my slow-moving progress, I'm moving from mainly pro-bono work to getting paid for many of my shoots and selling more prints. I do it mainly for the joy of the art, but getting paid to help fund things is nice.

[Angelo]

Let's keep this a civil discussion please! Thank you.

[mercphoto]

I'm not really sure the whole point of this thread. Congrats on charging very little and buying a new Lexus. Is this your only job? Is your photography subsidized by some other source of income? Sorry, but $25 per hour works out to about $50,000 a year, and I don't see you buying a high-end car on that salary. And that assumes that you can book a continuous 40 hours or more per week at that rate.

I simply won't work that cheap. At that price you can't run a business, expense new equipment, new computers, future upgrades. I haven't even considered business liability insurance yet, loss and theft insurance on equipment. Supplying yourself benefits.

Sorry, I don't believe you can run a business on these rates and "eat well".

[RogersDA]

But that's part of my point. Those may or may not be A game shots, but the customers were happy. The thing a lot of you "big time" photographers lose sight of is the fact that it doesn't matter one bit how much you, or the other dgrinners in the whipping post forum appreciate the photos. Just to illustrate this, I want every pro photog on here to ask their next client what bokeh is. Ask them if they like chromatic aberration. They won't have a clue. What they want is a picture to remember a moment by, and at a price that makes it possible to get more than they bargained for. You can laugh all day about walmart quality prints, but walmart sells a hell of a lot more pictures than any of us now don't they?
How about asking the pros about copyright violation (http://209.209.36.43/forums/showpost.php?p=1882005&postcount=92)? I'd bet they know a lot about that.

[urbanaries]

How about asking the pros about copyright violation (http://209.209.36.43/forums/showpost.php?p=1882005&postcount=92)? I'd bet they know a lot about that.

Interesting post.

did you hate cheap clients (http://209.209.36.43/forums/showpost.php?p=1801090&postcount=55) before or after you bought the lexus?

[Moogle Pepper]

whoa! Snagging other people's photos!

[anwmn1]

MOD EDIT: We've asked that this discussion remain civil. Please do so.

message deleted.

[anwmn1]

MOD EDIT: We've asked that this discussion remain civil. Please do so.

message deleted.

PM sent to the Mod.

[DavidTO]

PM sent to the Mod.


That would be me.

Your post crossed the line, Aaron.

[anwmn1]

That would be me.

Your post crossed the line, Aaron.

I pm'd Andy as his name shows as the mod.

Did you look into the links provided by other members?

It is obvious that the OP has used others images as his own on another site. Unless I am mistaken- none of the members here or anyone at smugmug supports such actions.

In my opinion this person should no longer be here.

[DavidTO]

I pm'd Andy as his name shows as the mod.

Did you look into the links provided by other members?

It is obvious that the OP has used others images as his own on another site. Unless I am mistaken- none of the members here or anyone at smugmug supports such actions.

In my opinion this person should no longer be here.


That's fine, it was the words you used.

[anwmn1]

That's fine, it was the words you used.

Understandable- no problem with that.

Just a little upsetting when things like that are brough to the forefront- especially if it is some one posting on this site.

[Angelo]

I've closed this post for the time being and the Administrators are investigating.

[schmoo]

exploderpilot has been banned for theft of images from Dgrinners.

Andy has kindly contacted the admins at the other forum notifying them of the offense and to request that the photos be removed.

Thanks guys, for understanding and bringing it to our attention.

[anwmn1]

Great Job Moderators!! :clap

I was wondering if someone from here would contact the other forum. :thumb

[Angelo]

Great Job Moderators!! :clap

I was wondering if someone from here would contact the other forum. :thumb

Of course!!!!

Andy was all over it faster than you can imagine. :rambo