Can you make 100,000 a year at this?

[joshhuntnm]

I am a hobbyist looking to go semi-pro. I had a conversation with a guy the other day, and I mentioned this. he said "My daughter is a professional photographer."

Really?

yeah, she started doing wedding, then families, then kids. Now she does products for catalogues.

We talked on for a while. He kind of went on and on about how well she was doing.

I decided to take a chance.

"This is probably totally not my business, and feel free to tell me so or not answer, but what kind of money are we talking about? What kind of money does she make?"

"Oh, around $6,000 a year."

I was shocked, to say the least.

So, based on this conversation, I am now wondering, is it realistic that a normal guy over several years might build up his business so that he is making 100,000 a year after four or five years?

[DrDavid]

"This is probably totally not my business, and feel free to tell me so or not answer, but what kind of money are we talking about? What kind of money does she make?"

"Oh, around $6,000 a year."

I'm not sure I'd get out of bed for that much money.......

David

[ChatKat]

I'm not sure I'd get out of bed for that much money.......

David

I hope to make double that (gross) a month within the next 3 years.

Yes, here in California with the right market it's possible. I did some accounting work for another photographer who charges $10000 base for a wedding - mid range package. Two or three a month. And I talked with another who only does one per month at $12,000.

Some of the high end portrait people I have chatted with make about $3,000 in average sales for one client a week.

Please send me those kind of clients, I pray!

[gus]

I know a sports photographer here that has several $100k+ cars ....i estimate his house to be worth maybe $2-3 million & he takes what i believe are the worst photos i have ever seen from a 'pro'. In fact his photos are far worse than most internet amateurs with basic DSLR's. He is constantly in good paying work & i have never met a more saddened & lost soul.

He does how ever belong to the right 'old boys clubs' Its just what you make of it but my soul is bloody well mine.

[joshhuntnm]

I know a sports photographer here that has several $100k+ cars ....i estimate his house to be worth maybe $2-3 million & he takes what i believe are the worst photos i have ever seen from a 'pro'. In fact his photos are far worse than most internet amateurs with basic DSLR's. He is constantly in good paying work & i have never met a more saddened & lost soul.

He does how ever belong to the right 'old boys clubs' Its just what you make of it but my soul is bloody well mine.

I guess this illustrates that sales and business skill is more important than photography skill.

[joshhuntnm]

I hope to make double that (gross) a month within the next 3 years.

Yes, here in California with the right market it's possible. I did some accounting work for another photographer who charges $10000 base for a wedding - mid range package. Two or three a month. And I talked with another who only does one per month at $12,000.

Some of the high end portrait people I have chatted with make about $3,000 in average sales for one client a week.

Please send me those kind of clients, I pray!

One would think you would have to dial up to those kind of fees. Most of us don't do our best work the first year or two on the job. And, I live in a poor county in New Mexico. I doubt anyone here could every charg those kind of fees. Then again, it doesn't take a million dollars to buy a nice house here, either.

[Scott_Quier]

I guess this illustrates that sales and business skill is more important than photography skill.
Josh, take a look at either Gary Fong or David Jay (link (http://www.davidjay.com/)). They are both much more than adequate photographers, but they are even more so - marketers and businessmen.

[chuckinsocal]

There's an excellent thread at http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=89916 that addresses issues relevant to this question. It's an excellent read.

Chuck Cannova
http://chuckinsocal.SmugMug.com

[claudermilk]

I know a sports photographer here that has several $100k+ cars ....i estimate his house to be worth maybe $2-3 million & he takes what i believe are the worst photos i have ever seen from a 'pro'. In fact his photos are far worse than most internet amateurs with basic DSLR's. He is constantly in good paying work & i have never met a more saddened & lost soul.

He does how ever belong to the right 'old boys clubs' Its just what you make of it but my soul is bloody well mine.

:cry You know, the three things that really saddens me about that are 1) I'm not in his shoes, 2) I'd be taking great photos (if not at first, I'd darn well learn to), and 3) you would not be able to wipe the grin off my face--a multi-million dollar house, several pricey fun cars, and taking photos for a living. Sigh. Proof that life isn't fair.

[jonh68]

:cry You know, the three things that really saddens me about that are 1) I'm not in his shoes, 2) I'd be taking great photos (if not at first, I'd darn well learn to), and 3) you would not be able to wipe the grin off my face--a multi-million dollar house, several pricey fun cars, and taking photos for a living. Sigh. Proof that life isn't fair.

Well, it would be interesting to note if the house came before or after photography.

[Pupator]

I know a sports photographer here that has several $100k+ cars ....i estimate his house to be worth maybe $2-3 million & he takes what i believe are the worst photos i have ever seen from a 'pro'. In fact his photos are far worse than most internet amateurs with basic DSLR's. He is constantly in good paying work & i have never met a more saddened & lost soul.

He does how ever belong to the right 'old boys clubs' Its just what you make of it but my soul is bloody well mine.

There's a big assumption being made here - that the house, cars, etc. are paid for. I know lots and lots of people with fancy cars, fine clothes, and big houses - they're also up to their eyeballs in debt.:deal

[exploderpilot]

Check this thread out. Low budget photography is what I think is the place to be during the recession if you're not a "good ole boy"
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=90196


MOD Edit: "Borrowed" images deleted - Angelo

[exploderpilot]

And yes, I'll be paying it off.....

[Matthew Saville]

Here's the deal: Yes, the market is FLOODED with people happily making $6,000 a year. They have slaughtered the photographers out there who were barely sqeaking by making ~$25-75 K per year.

But above that, it's a different story. Good marketing and business tactics come into play, and the average joe will never break into or harm the professional who is shooting $3,000 portrait sessions and $15,000 weddings.

Sadly, a few average photographers who are magicians at marketing WILL break into the high-end market, and will deliver average photos at a premium price, but that's not our topic of discussion here...

The point is, it is TOTALLY possible to make $100,000 a year. I dunno if you could build that large of an income in just a couple years, (I have not been able to) but eventually it is indeed possible. You MUST have exremely good marketing skills, however. GOOD PHOTOGRAPHS ALONE WILL NOT GET YOU THERE!!!

Good luck,
=Matt=

[claudermilk]

Those last two sentences are what kills me. I'm not much of a marketer--particularly of myself. :cry One of my happiest days was when I landed a non-retail job & no longer had to worry about sales.

[gus]

There's a big assumption being made here - that the house, cars, etc. are paid for. I know lots and lots of people with fancy cars, fine clothes, and big houses - they're also up to their eyeballs in debt.:deal

That is your assumption. I know of this person. As i said...he makes a very very healthy living from photography & has been in his current situation for many years. He has the right contacts.

[sesshin]

I think its possible to make $100k a year or more from photography, but just not probable for most people.

Only a small percentage of photographers are able to make a living from their photography, and out of that only a small percentage are able to make in the upper echelon of income. Truth is the deck is stacked against you getting rich solely from being a photographer.

But also part of me wonders why exactly your goal is to make so much money at this. For me photography is my profession and I make somewhat less than $100k a year, but I make enough to pay all my bills and am happy doing what I love. I think if you want to make that much you might want to consider another career choice. The odds aren't necessarily in your favor.

[Angelo]

And "celebrity" photographers will earn substantially more than 100k.

Someone like Annie Leibovitz can earn that much for one magazine cover. I have personally paid as much as 30k for one photo for an advertising campaign

However, keep in mind that level of photog is part of a machine... with full-time staff, assistants, studio, equipment, all maintained ready to go at all times.

[~Jan~]

I agree with the above. Definitely possible, but you have to be good at photography and FABULOUS at marketing. I think personality is a big part of it, too. You also have to find that "niche".

[joshhuntnm]

I think its possible to make $100k a year or more from photography, but just not probable for most people.

Only a small percentage of photographers are able to make a living from their photography, and out of that only a small percentage are able to make in the upper echelon of income. Truth is the deck is stacked against you getting rich solely from being a photographer.

But also part of me wonders why exactly your goal is to make so much money at this. For me photography is my profession and I make somewhat less than $100k a year, but I make enough to pay all my bills and am happy doing what I love. I think if you want to make that much you might want to consider another career choice. The odds aren't necessarily in your favor.

Five hungry kids; three in college!

[mercphoto]

Five hungry kids; three in college!
That's why Amy and I only want one child. :D

Can you make $100k or more at photography? You can make a killing in nearly any industry you want. I'm sure the people running Waste Management do quite well, and they are a garbage company. Some people make a killing playing with sticks and balls. I'm somewhat lucky to be a professional programmer writing custom designed internal software at a nice salary. But its more than just the fact that I have a somewhat unique skill set that thankfully someone has a need for. There is also a network that I and others like me have built up, and that network had a good sized impact on where I am today. It is no different in many other industries.

Marketing skills and networking can mean as much, if not more, than your photography skills in being successful. Also note that the people making all the money at garbage collection are not the people on the trucks... nor are all the people making money at Picture People the actual photographers... Food for thought.

[Dusty Sensiba]

This is an extremely competitive business. I am going to school at NMSU with dozens of people trying to do exactly what you are doing and spending many thousands of dollars of student loan money on 1D's, 5D's, D1's, and all kinds of lenses and lighting kits.

I also knew a very experienced and talented photographer with good gear that lost his sub $100k house because he couldn't make the payments.

Basically what I am saying is this: We have to totally kick a$$ to rise above the crowd in this digital age, and I am sure this is true anywhere you go. It's going to take many years of experience to get to that level.

As for myself, I'm not going to count on my photography to pay the bills right away, and probably not within five years. I'm going to train in another profession to pay the bills until it comes around, if it does.

[mercphoto]

Basically what I am saying is this: We have to totally kick a$$ to rise above the crowd in this digital age, and I am sure this is true anywhere you go. It's going to take many years of experience to get to that level.
Just don't think that "if only my pictures were top-notch then I'd have no trouble getting business." If your photography education doesn't also include a lot of good, solid business and marketing courses... :( Remember, the cliche about building a better mouse trap is actually wrong. You want to market the mouse trap better, not build a better mouse trap.

[James S]

In my area it is almost impossible to get work. Plenty of MWC's and no one wants to pay. I truly think my work is good but I agree mostly with people here. I need to market better.

[chuckinsocal]

David Jay should be the poster boy for the National Association of Charismatic Playboys. There's not a bride in the world who could say no to this guy and he travels in moneyed circles :stud. Such a life (sigh .... ).:flush

Chuck Cannova
www.customrideportraits.com (http://www.customrideportraits.com)

[dawssvt]

This is an extremely competitive business. I am going to school at NMSU with dozens of people trying to do exactly what you are doing and spending many thousands of dollars of student loan money on 1D's, 5D's, D1's, and all kinds of lenses and lighting kits.

I also knew a very experienced and talented photographer with good gear that lost his sub $100k house because he couldn't make the payments.

Basically what I am saying is this: We have to totally kick a$$ to rise above the crowd in this digital age, and I am sure this is true anywhere you go. It's going to take many years of experience to get to that level.

As for myself, I'm not going to count on my photography to pay the bills right away, and probably not within five years. I'm going to train in another profession to pay the bills until it comes around, if it does.

The title of your post is "Don't forget EP." I'm guessing you are referring to El Paso, but what about El Paso?

I am the OP's son, by the way. I am studying at NMSU as well.

[chuckinsocal]

Well, yesterday I received an e-mail from Chris and Don MacAskill informing me that someone downloaded $90.00 worth of my files. My first photography sale ever.

So, I guess that means that I'm well on my way to making my first $100,000 this year plus I have almost 2/3 of my pro subscription fee back, and I have almost 20% of the minimum needed to get an automatic paycheck. And all that after just 5 months of long and hard work trying to get this thing off the ground.

I'm on such a roll!!!

Chuck Cannova
www.customrideportraits.com

[Vycor]

I see lots of responses... but its all about who you know I think.

Thats business. You can offer a so-so product but have a huge list of clients.

Here in our business we offer a great product and great service, but we basically got all our business from the boss's dad, whos an accountant and fed us all the busineses.

Marketing marketing marketing.

When I think gary fong, i don't think "what a great photographer" im sure he takes great photos but i think of "lightsphere" and im sure thats where all his money comes from now adays.

[NikonsandVstroms]

The quick answer is yes, but you need to build the proper clientele. So you can work basically full-time. The big thing is, what do you want to do. Weddings? Music? Sports? Advertisements? Other commercial work? Fine art:deal Each has its own way of getting in with weddings probably being the easiest since you can start with friends of a friend, and it pays rather well with minimal investment in gear.

Also a question, are you ready to deal with clients. This might seem simple but they can quickly turn your fun hobby into grueling work. Depending on who you're working for (with my experience in commercial photography as well as design clients can be completely crazy and love something that you would never do for yourself)

[SimonMW]

My job is video. I have yet to become rich, and the overheads for equipment are much higher in video than stills, so it can be even more difficult.

But as others have said, a lot is down to marketing, and also being able to spot an opportunity. Making people aware of how you can save them money, or importantly make money from your work.

From a stills perspective everybody and their dog is doing weddings. Forget weddings. Perhaps even forget event photography. Find a niche, and regular clients in that area.

[vaio2006]

My job is video. I have yet to become rich, and the overheads for equipment are much higher in video than stills, so it can be even more difficult.

But as others have said, a lot is down to marketing, and also being able to spot an opportunity. Making people aware of how you can save them money, or importantly make money from your work.

From a stills perspective everybody and their dog is doing weddings. Forget weddings. Perhaps even forget event photography. Find a niche, and regular clients in that area.
I havea friend at school who freelances, and he said freelance videographers/photog's make about $250~$400 a day (if you have your own camera)

[joshhuntnm]

My job is video. I have yet to become rich, and the overheads for equipment are much higher in video than stills, so it can be even more difficult.

But as others have said, a lot is down to marketing, and also being able to spot an opportunity. Making people aware of how you can save them money, or importantly make money from your work.

From a stills perspective everybody and their dog is doing weddings. Forget weddings. Perhaps even forget event photography. Find a niche, and regular clients in that area.

What kind of videos do you do? Wedding?

[Nikolai]

I guess this illustrates that sales and business skill is more important than photography skill.
As it's been said over, and over, and over again about pretty much ANY type of business.. :dunno
And yes, it's true...:wink
Mediocre photog with excellent business skills in most cases will overdo an excellent photog with the mediocre business skills, unless some luck shines in favor of the latter and make him and part of the "old boys club" or something like that...

[SimonMW]

What kind of videos do you do? Wedding?

Nope. I won't touch weddings. I do everything else though, from corporate, industrial, broadcast, educational and everything in between.

[Zanotti]

http://www.popphoto.com/americanphotofeatures/5260/top-10-wedding-photographers-2008.html

[Nikolai]

http://www.popphoto.com/americanphotofeatures/5260/top-10-wedding-photographers-2008.html
Thanks for the link!:thumb
Although I like the "commentorial" (yes, that the word:-) rant after the article much better than the article itself...:wink

[Zanotti]

I have followed one of these top 10 for a while on her blog:

www.jessicaclaire.net

She is very talanted, but I think much of the outstanding work evolves from her PS work. She really excels at PP, especially things like Kubuta actions that assist in the process.

This too is a valuable skill and I am starting to realize some of my own limitations are in post rather than behind the camera.

Anyway, I agree making $100K at this is very possible, however its also probably a significant amount of work. Quite possibly its easier to make $100K doing something else!


Z

[chuckinsocal]

There's no way I can hold myself out as a qualified judge of fine wedding photography but I browsed all 50 photos in the slide show and while there were some real nice shots in there, many of them did absolutely nothing for me and some just plain sucked. But that's just me and my personal taste and, again, who am I to judge?

But now I'm thinking, if those people are making $100k per year doing that kind of work, I should be able to make at least $60k with my little Olympus 765C UZ, limited photoshop skills, and no experience. Right? (Maybe not).

I think those photos validate the common theme in this thread that success is more about marketing skills than it is about photographic skills.

Just my $.02. Am I being too harsh?

Chuck Cannova
www.customrideportraits.com

Edit: I want to be fair ... Just to clarify, I'm not saying that these photographers are not excellent photographers, I'm sure they are, but many of the images I saw just didn't do much for me. Again, personal taste, I guess.