Can someone tell me the truth about 20D banding?

[JamieC]

Yes, I did a search! I am looking for a definative answer on Canon 20D banding. Some people don't get banding at all. Some people didn't get banding after they upgraded their firmware. There's not been much mention of it here (or I used the search engine wrong) but it has been a hot topic over on dpreview. So why not just go read the dpreview posts? Let's just say I was hoping for a better signal to noise ratio than this hot-topic button seems to generate on dpreview. Any thoughts? Facts?

Jamie

[Andy]

Yes, I did a search! I am looking for a definative answer on Canon 20D banding. Some people don't get banding at all. Some people didn't get banding after they upgraded their firmware. There's not been much mention of it here (or I used the search engine wrong) but it has been a hot topic over on dpreview. So why not just go read the dpreview posts? Let's just say I was hoping for a better signal to noise ratio than this hot-topic button seems to generate on dpreview. Any thoughts? Facts?

Jamie

:wave hey there, jaime! nice to see you again :D

you'll find that there's far less measurebating here on dgrin than on dpreview. i've seen examples with banding, yes. i personally have never experienced it with my 20d. the times i've seen it over on dpr is when someone underexposes then pushes the exposure, then does extreme levels adjustment.

i think that it's a non-issue. plenty of 20d shooters here on dgrin, and it's not come up at all that i recall!

i've printed dozens and dozens of 20d shots - at large sizes, 11x19, and have never seen banding.

does this help?

[Khaos]

I've not had any issues with it with my 20D and I do at times push the limits experimenting with exposure and extreme settings of contrast and shadows while processing in RAW.

[JamieC]

Thanks gentlemen.. real world answers! I will probably be doing a fair amount (20%) long exposures and some of them at higher ISOs... I like night shots. I have a Sony F717 now and LOVE it, but want to take the plunge into DSLR land without dissapointment. The 20D seems ideal for my needs, save for this "problem", which the more I look seems like a non-problem.

Jamie

[Ann McRae]

Hi Jamie

I agree with andy in that the dpr guys are real measurabators, and that the banding issue is more or less a non issue. I have experienced banding on a couple of occassions, when I have totally blown the shot by severely underexposing it, and then tried to rescue it with post processing. Here is an example:
http://canadian-ann.smugmug.com/photos/13798408-L.jpg

The few times I've experienced it, it has been a shot with the 17 - 85 m.

I have never had this problem when I've gotten the exposure correct or even almost correct. And the 20d shots are so much more responsive to post processing than the sony shots are.

So it is one of those things, like pf and the 828 (and in my case, I've experienced pf a lot more than banding) that does happen but if you didn't read dpr you probably wouldn't realize it!!!!

Glad to see you here - looking forward to seeing you share some shots.

ann

[JamieC]

Thanks Ann. I have been looking for a forum with the attitude of the STF (at least when I joined it) and I think I have found it. I have been reading here for a few day, trying to get a feel for the culture, but I think I will fit in.

Now all I have to do is convince the social director that I need $2K.

Jamie

[Harryb]

Yes, I did a search! I am looking for a definative answer on Canon 20D banding. Some people don't get banding at all. Some people didn't get banding after they upgraded their firmware. There's not been much mention of it here (or I used the search engine wrong) but it has been a hot topic over on dpreview. So why not just go read the dpreview posts? Let's just say I was hoping for a better signal to noise ratio than this hot-topic button seems to generate on dpreview. Any thoughts? Facts?

JamieHey Jamie,

From what i've seen there's no real problem with banding. However prolonged exposure to the 20D has been known to cause cancer. :wink Get a Nikon.

[Andy]

Hey Jamie,

From what i've seen there's no real problem with banding. However prolonged exposure to the 20D has been known to cause cancer. :wink Get a Nikon.

old man, don't you hear a nap calling you?

[Harryb]

old man, don't you hear a nap calling you?
Snap wise if you will but the truth will come out. :D

[sash]

Thanks gentlemen.. real world answers! I will probably be doing a fair amount (20%) long exposures and some of them at higher ISOs... I like night shots. I have a Sony F717 now and LOVE it, but want to take the plunge into DSLR land without dissapointment. The 20D seems ideal for my needs, save for this "problem", which the more I look seems like a non-problem.

Jamie
hi jamie, personally i think there's a lot of paranoia being generated concerning this issue, esp over in the canon forums at dpr. i've had the 20d for about a month now and haven't encountered any problems whatsoever... it rocks :thumb

sash

[TOF guy]

That story of "banding" reminds me of the debate about moire on the D70 (which I own). Sure one can get moire with that camera, as a matter a fact one can get moire with any digital camera. The D70 is more prone to it ? Well, the fact that I can see moire on approximately 1 image out of a thousand has not exactly prevented me from taking pictures.:):

And by the way, all digital cameras can show "banding" with the adequate (but incorrect) settings. I can get it with the D70, for instance (I've tried !). :huh

As for the measurabators on dpreview: I've posted once my observation that "banding" is also possible in D70 images, and somebody's reply on this issue was that my post was technically incorrect: as banding (in most contexts) refers to apparitions of bands in post-processing. To make that person feel more confortable - if he comes to read this post - I've typed "banding" (between quotes) everywhere in this message, so that it is well understood that there is no confusion. Hope that helps. :rolleyes

Thierry

[JamieC]

Thanks again everyone.... now is just a matter of money.

Sigh.

Jamie

[Steve Cavigliano]

Jamie,

I've shot almost 10,000 images with my 20D, many at ISO1600. I have only seen banding in one shot :scratch It was taken using the B&W option along with the red filter option and @ ISO3200.

Although, it may have been caused by my choice of subjects :rofl

http://www.pbase.com/slo2k/image/36208723/original



Steve

[Andy]

Jamie,

I've shot almost 10,000 images with my 20D, many at ISO1600. I have only seen banding in one shot :scratch It was taken using the B&W option along with the red filter option and @ ISO3200.

Although, it may have been caused by my choice of subjects :rofl

http://www.pbase.com/slo2k/image/36208723/original



Steve

laugh it up... for that crack, i think you get to buy the coffee friday morning :lol3

[ginger_55]

Oh lord, next time I shoot someone will tell me I have banding. So far it is only noise, blown, other things I don't know the names of, but next it will be banding.

A year ago I never had this stuff. My family told me I was shooting great, too.

In case anyone wants to know, a year ago I was shooting with a Rebel, now it is a 20D, better lenses, too.

ginger (I wonder if I can get ahold of that old brownie I used to use.)

[OlgaJ]

ginger (I wonder if I can get ahold of that old brownie I used to use.)If you can't find yours, Ginger, my mother just shipped mine to me. Given to me sometime in the mid-50s by my Godmother:

http://yiayia.smugmug.com/photos/19019678-M.jpg

[Andy]

olga - i can't resist:

"gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!"


:lol3

[Stan]

Oh lord, next time I shoot someone will tell me I have banding. So far it is only noise, blown, other things I don't know the names of, but next it will be banding.

A year ago I never had this stuff. My family told me I was shooting great, too.

In case anyone wants to know, a year ago I was shooting with a Rebel, now it is a 20D, better lenses, too.

ginger (I wonder if I can get ahold of that old brownie I used to use.)
And you were pants with the rebel

http://gingersnap.smugmug.com/photos/6056140-M.jpg


:bow :rofl http://gingersnap.smugmug.com/photos/6393421-M.jpg

[Unicorn]

It's most noticeable at 3200 with a dark background - I shot a couple concerts and it showed up pretty bad. Less noticeable at 1600 and nose reduction software brings it down to almost unnoticeable levels. It's not in every shot and seems to manifest itself in high contrast areas where the sensor has to handle dark and light right next to each other.

I just deal with it in post

[JamieC]

Yes, I did a search! I am looking for a definative answer on Canon 20D banding. Some people don't get banding at all. Some people didn't get banding after they upgraded their firmware. There's not been much mention of it here (or I used the search engine wrong) but it has been a hot topic over on dpreview. So why not just go read the dpreview posts? Let's just say I was hoping for a better signal to noise ratio than this hot-topic button seems to generate on dpreview. Any thoughts? Facts?

Jamie
Holy resurrected post batmannn.... anyway, took me long enough, but I just ordered my 20d last friday. Actually, I already de-lurked as jkcashin. Trying to tidy up the mess of two accounts now. Anyway, thanks for all the advice, so long ago!

jamie

[JCDoss]

I think banding can occur at high ISOs if you have dark shadows in the background, especially if they have a red or brown tone to them. Usually when it happens to me, though, it's the result of underexposure.

[jimf]

From what i've seen there's no real problem with banding. However prolonged exposure to the 20D has been known to cause cancer. :wink Get a Nikon.

Hah, I wasn't going to say anything but you forced me to. There was actually a real banding problem with some early copies of the Nikon D200. Nikon has, of course, long since fixed the issue.

I don't know about cancer, but it is likely that putting a camera of any make near laboratory mice would cause cancer. Everything else does.

[jimf]

I think banding can occur at high ISOs if you have dark shadows in the background, especially if they have a red or brown tone to them. Usually when it happens to me, though, it's the result of underexposure.

Banding can happen whenever your exposure is off, high or low, or if you overadjust levels even in the midrange. It's the result of not having enough values to achieve what appears to be a continuous tone.

If you're in Photoshop and looking at a histogram when you pull your exposure up or down a lot, or adjust curves or levels enough, you'll see a sawtooth or broken appearance in the histogram. That's the result of gaps that result from trying to expand the dynamic range, and the likely result is banding. It's possible to detect and reduce banding in software (and most RAW conversion software attempts to do this to a degree) but at a loss of image quality.

[herion]

Hey Jamie,

From what i've seen there's no real problem with banding. However prolonged exposure to the 20D has been known to cause cancer. :wink Get a Nikon.

Harry, didn't you know that using Nikon equipment gives you COOTIES?
:rofl:rofl:rofl

[JamieC]

Well, I just received my 20d... I should be gone for a while as I intend to play with it all weekend! Wish me luck

Jamie

[OlgaJ]

Well, I just received my 20d... I should be gone for a while as I intend to play with it all weekend! Wish me luck

Jamie

Enjoy it in good health. We know you'll have a blast.

Olga