Upgrading to 40D....

[cmason]

Searched but couldn't find it...

I am considering either a new lens or upgrading the camera body. I have a 350d now (Rebel XT), and considering moving to a 40D. Anyone with experiences with this? Has it been a big improvement? Anything in particular that you like better, or miss? I know the stats, just wondering about the reality of living with the new body.

The size and build of the 40D are nice, but I don't mind the compact size of the XT honestly. I am fairly happy with what I have, so am debating whether I should upgrade to 40D or just get a new lens, like say a 24-105L....

[ivar]

Is there anything that you don't like about the rebel XT, or that you are missing? :ear

[ziggy53]

I have both and still find applications for both. The 40D is a pretty significant upgrade in terms of:

Responsiveness: The 40D has faster shooting rate, faster autofocus, more accurate autofocus, deeper buffer and faster card write speeds.

Live View: Surprisingly useful for critical focus confirmation and manual focus adjustment.

Larger viewfinder.

Spot metering.

ISO 3200 (and better high-ISO noise reduction available.)

Battery life is much improved.

Two wheels plus joystick for user setup and interface.

Larger LCD with twice the detail. Up to 10X even in Live View.

ISO displays in top information LCD ("Control Panel" display) as well as in the viewfinder.

Self cleaning filter.


In addition you get a more durable chassis and a much more durable shutter. Minor improvements in body seals.

[cmason]

Is there anything that you don't like about the rebel XT, or that you are missing? :ear

Not especially. When I have some larger lenses on it, it feels, well, inadequate or overwhelmed. I have tested a 40D and love the viewfinder and the focusing, which is much better than my 350.

Spot metering seems as if it would be extremely handy. Larger screen is nice, but not necessary. Since I have begun buying studio lights, a PC sync connector will be come more relevant. And the controls seem much more user friendly.

Plus, well its an upgrade, who doesn't like a new camera :)

[cmason]

Thanks ziggy:

[quote=ziggy53]
faster autofocus, more accurate autofocus, deeper buffer and faster card write speeds.

Yes!



Larger viewfinder. Spot metering.


Oh Yeah!


ISO displays in top information LCD ("Control Panel" display) as well as in the viewfinder.

This one alone may be worth it... Schmoo taught me 'every day is check your ISO day" but I always forget.



Self cleaning filter.


Do you notice any difference or improvement because of this? Having owned and used both...would you choose a lens over the 40D if you had to do it again (and there was a lens you wanted)?

[ziggy53]

... Do you notice any difference or improvement because of this? Having owned and used both...would you choose a lens over the 40D if you had to do it again (and there was a lens you wanted)?

I honestly haven't checked to see it it's doing the cleaning job or not.

So far in 2008 I bought my first new dSLR camera ever, the 40D, and the Canon EF-S 17-55mm, f2.8 IS.

I did buy the camera first but mostly because the lens had become hard to find. I do think this combination of glass and camera is just about perfectly balanced in terms of utility versus quality.

I also picked up a B+W filter to protect the lens and a hood for the lens. (Shame on Canon for not including the hood with that lens in particular.)

I always recommend glass before body, but you get to decide your own priorities. :wink

[evoryware]

I have owned the XT and I always had to blow the dust away from the sensor because it showed in my aircraft and bird and beach photography. I got the XTi and not once have I had to blow dust off the sensor. This includes 3 weeks of beach photography, and several sandblown days at a beach in Cancun. The 40D has been no different.

[mendocino]

Hi Gang,

This is too funny... 1st time to this site, 1st thread read, 40D or 24-105mm f4 L quandry... I had a Rebel XT, loved it, but the dust problem was enough of an excuse to "upgrade" to an XTi... like it, but... more later... but after trying out one of my Bud's 40D's I had to get one... so last week I got a new 40D from B+H and had some $$$ left over and bought a 24-105mm f4 L used from a different friend... love 'em, love 'em, love 'em...

The finder in the 40D is worth the price of admission alone; well, almost... the 6.5 fps is great (I shoot surf) and the feel of the build seems to be way better than the Rebels for my long lenses... and the dust vibration thing works... it just works, as it does in the XTi.

My main complaint re: the XTi is that the ISO settings are so easily changed that it was almost impossible to just shoot and forget about the camera. Even after taking off my Hoodman screen cover (it covered the ISO settings) I still found I was shooting @ ISO 1600 all the time... if your thumb slides over just a taste it can change the ISO from say 400 to 1600 inadvertantly, and the heavier the lens the more the XTi was prone to do it, as you have to grip the camera more tightly... it's kinda hard to describe, but if you have an XTi maybe this has happened to you, too. Of course it could be that there is an "ISO Setting Lock" that I don't know about, but... ARGGGH!!! Anyway, this looks like a really fun place, and I hope to get some cool tips from one and all!

BTW, both the XT and the XTi take spot on pics... the 40D seems better... somehow more vivid...

[Tee Why]

If the small size of the XT with a large lens is the problem, I'd recommend a grip instead and spending the money toward more lenses.

It'll probably make a bigger difference to your images.

[BBiggs]

Hi Gang,

This is too funny... 1st time to this site, 1st thread read, 40D or 24-105mm f4 L quandry... I had a Rebel XT, loved it, but the dust problem was enough of an excuse to "upgrade" to an XTi... like it, but... more later... but after trying out one of my Bud's 40D's I had to get one... so last week I got a new 40D from B+H and had some $$$ left over and bought a 24-105mm f4 L used from a different friend... love 'em, love 'em, love 'em...

The finder in the 40D is worth the price of admission alone; well, almost... the 6.5 fps is great (I shoot surf) and the feel of the build seems to be way better than the Rebels for my long lenses... and the dust vibration thing works... it just works, as it does in the XTi.

My main complaint re: the XTi is that the ISO settings are so easily changed that it was almost impossible to just shoot and forget about the camera. Even after taking off my Hoodman screen cover (it covered the ISO settings) I still found I was shooting @ ISO 1600 all the time... if your thumb slides over just a taste it can change the ISO from say 400 to 1600 inadvertantly, and the heavier the lens the more the XTi was prone to do it, as you have to grip the camera more tightly... it's kinda hard to describe, but if you have an XTi maybe this has happened to you, too. Of course it could be that there is an "ISO Setting Lock" that I don't know about, but... ARGGGH!!! Anyway, this looks like a really fun place, and I hope to get some cool tips from one and all!

BTW, both the XT and the XTi take spot on pics... the 40D seems better... somehow more vivid...




I agree with you here! I have had this happen with my 100-400mm a few times. Its annoying.

[scottV]

I had the same quandry a month ago, so I did the only responsible thing; bought the 40D and the lens. :D

If I knew then what I know now I would not have waited so long for the body upgrade. The 40d is like night and day from the xt, just the sound of the shutter is so much different, like butter.

[cmason]

I had the same quandry a month ago, so I did the only responsible thing; bought the 40D and the lens. :D

If I knew then what I know now I would not have waited so long for the body upgrade. The 40d is like night and day from the xt, just the sound of the shutter is so much different, like butter.

well I have considered that approach, but that will require far too many honey-dos and brownie pts with the better half.

The whole reason for my thread in the first place is statements like yours "The 40d is like night and day from the xt", statements that are difficult to quantify, and must come down to overall satisfaction and appreciation of all the 'little things' that are different and more focused on getting a photo vs a snapshot.

[Robinivich]

I know I want the 40D, and I shoot an XT currently, and just felt I'd add my voice to the chorus :D

Seems there's an awful lot of XT users who picked the 40D as that "just right" time to move up.

The grip on the XT definitely helps, I will say, but if I'd had it to do over, I'd probably have put the money for the grip towards a quicker switch to 40D, as it is, I'm still on a high from pulling the trigger on a 10-22, and waiting for it to arrive...

[Tee Why]

Looking at dpreview and bobatkins.com, the XT and the 20/30D has the same image quality. The 40D does not seem to have much better IQ than the 30D, so I wouldn't expect much difference in absolute image quality improvement when going from XT to 40D.

In terms of robustness, features, ease of use would be where you would gain things though.

However, I still think a lens would make more of a difference.

[cmason]

Looking at dpreview and bobatkins.com, the XT and the 20/30D has the same image quality. The 40D does not seem to have much better IQ than the 30D, so I wouldn't expect much difference in absolute image quality improvement when going from XT to 40D.

Agree here, in fact, one could argue (can of worms) that the 20D/30D may have better IQ than the 40D, since the pixel resolution is less on an unchanged sensor size, meaning more light per pixel, potentially. But with the Digic III, and other improvements, it is hopefully a wash. I would hope there is some internal, electronic difference between an XTi or XSi than a 40D, but perhaps not.

In terms of robustness, features, ease of use would be where you would gain things though.

However, I still think a lens would make more of a difference.

The real dilema, which I will NOT be considering, is the XSi or the 40D. Technically, the XSi is as much an improvement, on paper, as the 40D over my XT. In fact, the size of the XT to me is a bonus, since I have small hands, and the size allows me to toss it in my briefcase on business trips. But, I am not selling the XT, since I do not feel it is worth the effort for the selling price any longer, so I will still have the XT for when a business trip affords a bit of sightseeing.

However, I still think a lens would make more of a difference.

Doggone it, thought I had made up my mind, then you go and say that. The lens upgrade will be in the standard range, where I have my Tamron 28-75 now. It is a great lens, and I often remark at how sharp it is. But the 24-105L is my dream lens, even though it may not be the perfect solution for 1.6x crop camera.

Either way, once I get one, I will start justifying the other :D

[ivar]

But the 24-105L is my dream lens, even though it may not be the perfect solution for 1.6x crop camera. I use the 24-105 on a 30d, and all I can say is: :lust

[denisegoldberg]

But the 24-105L is my dream lens, even though it may not be the perfect solution for 1.6x crop camera.
I just upgraded from an XT to a 40D, and I also added the 24-105L to my lens collection. The lens is sweet, and the camera is a noticeable upgrade. The thing that jumped out at me first is the focus speed, much faster than my XT.

I also find that the 40D is more capable of auto-focusing my 70-300 DO IS lens. On the XT I was more likely to (need to) use that lens on manual focus. On the 40D I am much happier with the auto focus.

Either way - whether you decide to go with the lens now and camera later, or switch the order - I suspect that you'll be pleased. (And I do understand having a problem making the decision. I kept telling myself I didn't need the camera, but now that I have it I know that I did!).

--- Denise

[Ric Grupe]

Sure a lot of "talk" in this thread.:scratch

I'll keep it simple...I've had the 10D...20D...30D...and have the 1DMKIIN and the 40D.

I enjoy the 40D more than any of them.

[bham]

Glass before body is my recommendation. A great body with ok glass, isn't as good as a good body with L glass.

I got a 40D recently and besides some slight improvements I really haven't felt it was a major upgrade from the 20D. The extra 1.5 fps is nice for action sports. I guess I am comparing the major difference I noticed when I went from the 10D to the 20D. Hopefully the sensor cleaning will eliminate dust bunnies. I haven't seen any yet, but then again I shoot a good bit at 2.8 - 4.0 f's.

[cmason]

Thanks. Will be in NYC on Thursday, and hope to carve out an hour or two to stop by B&H...will try the 24-105 on my XT...

[BigAl]

The biggest advantages between the two cameras for me were:
Larger viewfinder
Better autofocus
Intermediate ISO stops

Things that took a lot of getting used to:
the back wheel (I still often turn the wrong wheel)
the "joystick"
the weight - the 40d is a monster compared to the 350d

Something that is totally useless for me is the top settings panel (I use the camera on a tripod or monopod most of the time so can't see it), however, a great feature is that all that info can now be displayed on the main LCD (much bigger too).

In hindsight, if I'd waited I would probably have gone for the 450d, just for the weight.

Here a pic showing how good the AF is. The 350d would have focussed on the plants and missed the bird:
http://bigal-sa.smugmug.com/photos/248195883_FHKAb-L.jpg

[ziggy53]

...

Here a pic showing how good the AF is. The 350d would have focussed on the plants and missed the bird:


Al,

I also did some tests to see how well the new AF can discriminate objects "masked" behind foreground objects and was amazed at the accuracy of the center AF dot. :thumb:thumb

[ipduffy]

I recently bought the 40D to augment my gear. I had only the XTi before that. My initial impressions were as follows:

1. The 40D is significantly bigger than the XTi. Not huge, but noticably bigger.
2. The controls don't seem as intuitive as on the XTi. Perhaps I just haven't been using it long enough (and it seems as if it's getting easier) but it takes me a bit longer to get the camera "dialed in" on manual settings than it did with the XTi. Not a big issue though.
3. The continuous shooting speed is more than twice as fast as the XTi. The 40D is like a machine gun. Bam! Bam! Bam! :D
4. The incremental ISO settings are great and allow me to "fine-tune" my exposure much more than I could on the XTi.
5. As I'm getting more into portraits and studio work, the PC sync cable is a big deal BUT I just bought a wireless transmitter that works via the hotshoe; thus it will work with both the XTi and the 40D. So the PC sync port is no longer that big a deal.
6. The Liveview and Liveview-to-PC features are awesome and will allow for a lot of neat, creative shots that wouldn't be possible (or at least not as easy) with the XTi.

The main reason I bought the 40D was as a backup camera for my friend's wedding that she asked me to shoot for her (thanks Ziggy and Scott for all your pointers and great advice!). However, I have found it to be a fabulous body that feels much more solid than the XTi. Right now it has a lot more capability than I need but that will be available for me when I "grow into it". I absolutely love my 40D, and I'm sure I'll have it for many years.

I was debating getting the 17-55 f/2.8 IS (since so many wedding photogs recommend it) rather than the 40D. I opted for the 40D over the lens for the following reasons:

1. I already have the 17-40 f/4 L and the 24-105 f/4 L lenses
2. The wedding is going to be entirely outdoors, mitigating the need for a lens as fast as the 17-55.

I hope this helps; good luck and best wishes to you!

[cmason]

Thanks ipduffy, very helpful...though I wish I owned the 17-40 and 24-105, then it would be easy :rofl

[Moogle Pepper]

Thanks ipduffy, very helpful...though I wish I owned the 17-40 and 24-105, then it would be easy :rofl

haha same here!!

[mendocino]

I agree with you here! I have had this happen with my 100-400mm a few times. Its annoying.

BBriggs & Tee Why - It's not the small size of the of the XTi that's causing me grief w/ the accidental ISO changes, it's the design of the back side of the camera; the ISO values are so easily changed w/ any lens on board, but w/ a heavy lens, like BBriggs 100-400mm bruiser or my 70 - 200mm f2.8 L IS or 300mm f4 L IS it's almost impossible to avoid it. And Tee Why, if you mean adding a Battery Grip BG-E3, I tried that right off the bat; while it helped stabilize the small XTi weight-wise, it actually exacerbated the ISO prob...

To give you all an idea how frustrating the ISO problem is for me, I gave my adult daughter my original XT when I got the XTi; now I'm considering swaping out cameras w/ her... the auto dust cleaning works like a champ, but it's not that much of a hassle to lock up the mirror on the XT and blow off the sensor, thereby blowing off the problems I've encountered w/ the XTi (slight bad pun intended)

BUT!!! I'm thinking that if I keep the XTi as a back-up, I'll get the new EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens ($175 Street). It's gotten great reviews, both online and from a guy I know who lives and breathes photo gear... and it is so light it should mitigate some of the ISO problem and be a good walk-around combo w/ the XTi...

So thanks for the feedback, as I said I'm a total newbie here... this place seems friendly; I'll strive to not rattle any chains!

Tom

[scottV]

The whole reason for my thread in the first place is statements like yours "The 40d is like night and day from the xt", statements that are difficult to quantify, and must come down to overall satisfaction and appreciation of all the 'little things' that are different and more focused on getting a photo vs a snapshot.
difficult to quantify for sure, vagueness is my specialty :D
These are my favorite features :

beefiness compared to xt
shutter; speed and feel
custom user settings
viewfinder & liveview
added street cred

[cmason]

mendocino, you may wish to try changing Custom Function #1 to AF Cross-keys. When you do this, touching the buttons on the back won't change ISO, but will change the AF pt. If this is still an issue, you can try changing it to Picture Styles, which won't do anything if you shoot RAW.

[cmason]

added street cred

Not to be underestimated!

[mendocino]

mendocino, you may wish to try changing Custom Function #1 to AF Cross-keys. When you do this, touching the buttons on the back won't change ISO, but will change the AF pt. If this is still an issue, you can try changing it to Picture Styles, which won't do anything if you shoot RAW.

The 1st tip won't work, since I almost always shoot using only the center focus point, but the 2nd one sounds like a winner... I'm actually surprised that this issue has not come up more often in various forums; it is a total mess up on Canon's part IMHO, anyway...

But now that I have my boss new 40D, and using this tip feel that the XTi won't fail me as a back-up when I shoot my infrequent wedding assignments, I'm stoked... I'm a cross between a Pro and an advanced (?) amateur... someday I hope to be up to the level of my equipment :)

Thank's again, cmason

PS I have some gear that I'd like to tell you guys about here @ the bottom of the post (Brag?:)) but I don't know how to make a template for these posts so's I don't have to re-type the info every time... you know, 'Canon 40D, Canon G9, Canon 300mm f4 L IS', etc. Do you make a template in Word and copy/paste to here?!?!?! As a matter of fact, just to make the 'L' in the lens discription red, I'll try that if'n I don't hear from anyone... after paying all that $$$ for my red line lenses, it better show up red in these forums!!! :)

[cmason]

PS I have some gear that I'd like to tell you guys about here @ the bottom of the post (Brag?:)) but I don't know how to make a template for these posts so's I don't have to re-type the info every time... you know, 'Canon 40D, Canon G9, Canon 300mm f4 L IS', etc. Do you make a template in Word and copy/paste to here?!?!?! As a matter of fact, just to make the 'L' in the lens discription red, I'll try that if'n I don't hear from anyone... after paying all that $$$ for my red line lenses, it better show up red in these forums!!! :)

mendocino:

Click 'You' near the Digital Grin Forum breadcrumb (look under the photo banner). Choose "Edit Signature", put whatever you like...experiment!

[cmason]

Well, I visited B&H yesterday and looked at the 24-105L on my XT, and I also examined and tried the 40D in some detail. I surprised myself actually in the outcome.

I was leaning heavily toward the lens. I tried it on my XT, and it looked fine. It did not make the camera hard to hold, nor upset the balance that I could tell. Seeing the lens pop out as you zoom was surprising, as most of my lenses are internally focusing, but I got over it. It was not embarrassingly big like the 28-70 2.8, and it is of reasonable weight. I took shots at 1/35 and 1/15th that looked perfectly serviceable, at least on the LCD. Amazing. What a great lens.

Then I went and tried the 40D, with expert help showing me how to use it. the viewfinder was wonderful, and after using it a while, then looking thru my XT, I was shocked at how small the XT viewfinder is. I didn't think it felt too big, though when I first picked it up, it did feel large (I picked up the 1DMIII as well...that thing is silly big).

Then I discovered the 'killer feature' at least for me: I shoot primarily in Av or Tv mode, since it fits close to how I used a SLR for the last 25 odd years. I still miss the aperture ring terribly, but have learned to press the AV button on the XT and roll the adjustment spinner near the shutter release button. Not a aperture ring experience even remotely.

Then on the 40D, I was looking for the AV button. The guy helping me said "spin the big wheel on the back" . I did and WOW!! Aperture adjusted, and it was simple, and easy to do, in fact I might use manual more often. What a great feature, and for me, the killer, decision making thing. It is the small things that add up and make the difference.

And that was it: I am going to buy the 40D. I didn't while I was there, since I don't want to pay the NYC 10% sales tax, but I will in the next few weeks.

Thanks for all your help.

[mendocino]

mendocino:

Click 'You' near the Digital Grin Forum breadcrumb (look under the photo banner). Choose "Edit Signature", put whatever you like...experiment!

I have so much gear, much more than I probably should have for my experience level, but what the hey... I was bitten by the Photo Bug about 4 years ago when a young lady knocked on my door and said, "Hey Tom, you've always been into computers and electronic gear... here's a little Fuji camera I was given for my birthday (Christmas, Groundhog Day, whatever) and since I never use it I thought you might have fun w/ it..." so later that day, after finishing my web work I took said Fuji 3MP Point & Click (the 1st camera I've ever used) out for a walk and shot flowers along the three streets that make up my Pop. 454 burg. I went home; couldn't figure out how to get the pics from the camera to my computer using the software included, so decided to use DOS to transfer the files to the directory of my choice... got download done, opened up the pics.... BINGO!!! As they say, I've never looked back... my only sort of regret is that I didn't get bitten by the bug earlier in life, but heck... I love photography... Bresson, Adams, you, me, everyone who clicks is recording life... times... and having one of the most fun/unique experiences ever...

*sigh*

please forgive the rant; I think you all will cut me some slack, 'cuz you know what I'm talking about... :)

[ipduffy]

cmason: congrats on your choice / purchase(?). I know you will love the 40D! The more I use it the more amaze I am at its capabilities.