I'm sorry

[pemmett]

I would like to publicly apologize and ask for forgiveness for asking some of my friends to vote for my pictures.

The people I asked were close friends who have taken an interest in my photography over the past year and I did so only after reading the following line from Erik's post for the first round of voting (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=84889)

"As stated in the rules, you have the next 72 hours to decide! And tell your friends all around DGrin and the web in general, the more votes, the better!"
I am not trying to justify what I did in any way.
<o:p> </o:p>
I had followed earlier discussions in this forum about friends asking to vote, but after reading the above line I took it as an invitation to invite these friends.
<o:p> </o:p>
I counted that between the 17^th Feb (the day of the cut off for the second round of voting) to the 22^nd Feb there were just under 300 new registrants (not all mine by any means!) – which I do not know if this is abnormal or not?
<o:p> </o:p>
I am truly sorry for my actions and regret doing it because:

It was wrong.
It goes against everything that happened during the year in terms of helping each other to succeed and become better photographers.
My actions made me loose sight about why I joined this community in the first place, which was to learn and make friends. <!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]--> <!--[endif]-->Finally, I’m sorry because I acted against some of the kindest and most generous people I have ever met, who were willing to give me their time to improve myself. I would like to be able to call you my friends – I hope you will still let me.
<o:p> </o:p>
Thanks/Peter

[Greensquared]

Peter,

I certainly accept your apology and would like to continue to see you participate in this forum.

I read that statement by Erik as you did, and thought "Oh that's ridiculous! Surely he doesn't mean it the way it sounds." So, I can understand your confusion. The two people I invited to join during voting were long time active lurkers who plan to use dgrin and one will definitely be participating in the next LPS.

I appreciate your honesty and sincerity.

Emily

[shatch]

You have my respect and forgiveness. It takes a strong person to make a post like this. You are a good man. It shows the true nature of your heart. Glad to have you around. :thumb

[pemmett]

Emily/Steven,

Thank you so much for your kind words of encouragement and forgiveness:lust

I still want to be involved for sure, but this time I intend to participate to learn and not to win.

Cheers/Peter

[cbsnet]

Wow... You have my deepest respect. Hope you continue in the LPS rounds.

-carl

[anwmn1]

:clap

Thank you- this shows a lot of character.


Wish you the best in future entries-

[jwear]

the desire to win --you are good with me ,took a lot to put up that post :thumb

[The Curious Camel]

To error is human, to forgive divine.

Your are a man of honor.

Peace to you, gail

[richtersl]

Awww....Peter, you are a kind and wonderful person. :sweet

I've stayed mostly on the sidelines the past several rounds and have enjoyed watching the different rounds. All the entries in the final rounds were fabulous. All I could do is shake my head in awe upon watching them go up. :eek1

However, I would not lose too much sleep over this. When I saw Andy's note, the impression I was left with was that groups of people were signing up for Dgrin under multiple ID's to put in votes. Evidently whatever he saw was significant enough for him to have had to put his foot down -- especially if multiple ID's were originating from the same IP address. In the end, we'll never know and that's OK by me. DGrin will have a handle on this next year, I'm sure.

To me that's a lot different that asking a small handful of friends to vote for your picture. :dunno Besides, your friends may even decide to stick around and give you a run for your money in LPS 2. :D

LPS 1 is behind us now. It's time to move on to LPS 2. Dgrin has a good thing going, which they will make even better the second time around. :thumb

[DavidTO]

I intend to participate to learn and not to win.

Cheers/Peter


Sounds like you learned a ton.

[ChrisKraftPhoto]

Ditto to all the above responses. It takes a man to own up to any mistakes made, whether those made by accident or on purpose.

Good on ya and hope you continue to participate! :thumb

[swintonphoto]

"Come on dear brother, now that the war has passed. For friends at first are friends again at last." (Joseph Smith)

No hard feelings from me! Let's just have a good year with LPS2!

[Awais Yaqub]

:D dont worry

[OsirisPhoto]

:D dont worry

.. be happy :D

[Angelo]

:thumb

[digitalpins]

:thumbI forgive and I was not even in the contest or even if I was I would forgive you. Everyone makes a mistake and its awesome that you posted here apologizing and that a bunch of people here are so nice and forgived you and also wrote many nice things. I have seen this happen before in other photography forums and its gotten pretty ugly....this is another reason why I like dgrin's forum so much....lots of nice people here.

[photogmomma]

You know, many others did the same thing, I'm sure (judging by the number of voters and other people jumping in votes quickly).... And I think many others read that the same way. Please don't stress about it. But thanks for owning up. That's really cool.

See you in round 2!! :D

[indiegirl]

I thank you for your post and hold you in high esteem. Be well, friend.

Jesse

[RogersDA]

Peter,

Whether or not you got 1 vote or 1000 votes that shot is very, very nice and is most certainly LPS-winner quality.

Great work, Peter, on both the photography and the high-road position.

[rddphotos]

you have nothing to apoloigize too, what you read is exactly what I questioned during the voting session and it was considered fair game from the response I got back. :deal

The dam thing was I had a year to get people to sign up before the grand finale and I was to busy worrying about finding the best shoot.

sorry but if my friends signed up they wouldn't of been voting for someone else, that's just the way life is, especially with cash on the line.

If there's an LPS2, I would personally like to see the grand finale hit the road for a couple of weeks, where dGrin can work some cross promotion with a gallery/photography store at various locations, can display the photos and let people who walk in vote for their favorite.

[Izzy Garavito]

Hey Peter, great work and thanks for being honest

Izzy

[imax]

I deleted my first response to this 8 hours ago because I really thought that it would die down and people would realize that no apology was needed. As I logged on again tonight I see that this thread is still atop the listings and going strong so I'll put my own 2 cents in for what it's worth.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Peter, you have nothing to apologize for, you followed the rules clearly stated here:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
<TABLE class=MsoNormalTable style="WIDTH: 100%; mso-cellspacing: 0in; mso-padding-alt: 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt 3.0pt" cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR style="mso-yfti-irow: 0; mso-yfti-firstrow: yes; mso-yfti-lastrow: yes"><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8 1pt inset; PADDING-RIGHT: 3pt; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8 1pt inset; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; BACKGROUND: #404040; PADDING-BOTTOM: 3pt; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8 1pt inset; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8 1pt inset; mso-border-alt: inset windowtext .75pt">"As stated in the rules, you have the next 72 hours to decide! And tell your friends all around DGrin and the web in general, the more votes, the better!" <o:p></o:p>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Once the above statement was issued it was clear at least to me that the final vote was going to be a free for all based on who could get the most people to vote for them. I'm sure that there are those who don't believe that people asked others to join DGRIN just to help them win but in my opinion that's just being naive. For a lot less money people have done some really foolish things.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
For almost 12 months I participated in the LPS and each time it came to a vote I voted for what I believed was the best in each round. Not always the popular vote but none the less I voted. For the first time, I chose not to vote in the LPS 2nd round finals even though Urbanaries photograph ended up in the top 10 which I did vote for in the first round of the finals. <o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
It was my choice not to because I believe the winner had already been decided based on the mentioned free for all. Funny how there were over 460 voters in the first round and only 321 in the second round according to the voting numbers. I wonder what happened to the other 140 plus voters……………………<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I enjoyed this contest up until the final round, not because I didn't win, not because I didn't make it into the top ten (mine did not belong) but because I don't believe that it was the best against the best imho, and that was something we were and are all entitled to.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
I hope that the LPS2 comes about and I look forward to participating in it. I learned a lot from the last one both about pushing my own limits, and just about people in general. I'm still learning. It was interesting to watch it unfold. Hopefully it will be done right this time. (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=84883&highlight=lps2) Only Time will tell..................................


Joe

[NeilL]

I agree that you did nothing illegitimate, or even anything which was "not nice". Voting was open to any registered member of DGrin, who registered up to the date set by Andy, one person one vote. You and your friends seem to have complied with that, so no problem. HOW people vote is of course up to them, whether based on loyalty or some other criteria. Purely objective judging is what we expect, but might not actually always get, from "professional" judges.

A thought which occurred to me is to create another level of membership - "Voting Member", which is awarded after a certain number of posts to the forums, say 100, and which would have to be maintained by continued posting each year, so 2nd year of membership, a Voting Member would have to log another 100 posts to remain current. This would help to ensure that the people who are voting are actually participating in the life of DGrin day by day and cut out the opportunist member who joins only to vote.

All the best, Peter, and looking forward to a lot more great stuff from you in the future - for my own selfish reasons!! :D

Neil

[puzzledpaul]

<< create another level of membership ... >>

Presumably some consideration would have to be given to the situation where someone could join DG, enter all of the rounds of LPS2 (assuming similar format to 1) and still not be eligible to vote for themselves or anyone else ... because they're not a 'chatty' sort of person and haven't passed the necessary post threshold?

pp

[DoctorIt]

It was my choice not to because I believe the winner had already been decided based on the mentioned free for all. Funny how there were over 460 voters in the first round and only 321 in the second round according to the voting numbers. I wonder what happened to the other 140 plus voters.

I enjoyed this contest up until the final round, not because I didn't win, not because I didn't make it into the top ten (mine did not belong) but because I don't believe that it was the best against the best imho, and that was something we were and are all entitled to.I've tried to bite my tongue and just let it go, realizing the details are unimportant. However, I would be shocked if I'm the only one offended by comments like that above. So let me set the record straight, for one reason, and one reason only - because what Joe said basically takes away from the excellent batch of finalists, and Vandana's stunning winner, and that my LPS friends, is a really, really crappy thing to do!

After the first round of voting, we checked out what this influx of new voters did to the tally. Answer: nothing! In the 48hr period we took before the second round opened with the new rule, we checked and double checked. Removing votes at that point did NOT change the top 10. We let it stand, learned, made an adjustment, and moved on.

In round 2, we only removed a total of approximately 40 votes from non-eligible (new) dgrinners, and except for pemmet's entry (which we thank him for admitting to), they were distributed evenly and sparsely - in other words: they were exactly what we were looking for when we made that "shocking" publicity statement - new people who came in, looked and voted and did nothing to statistically effect a bias on results .

Apology accepted, moving on.

thanks,

[imax]

because what Joe said basically takes away from the excellent batch of finalists, and Vandana's stunning winner, and that my LPS friends, is a really, really crappy thing to do!

Hey Erik, I did no such thing. I simply stated my opinion. You on the other hand took it upon yourself to make the following two statements

Actually, I'll be the first to say, that might not happen... if we're gonna do it again, we're gonna do it right.

By saying that you opened the door to all kinds of questions as to what was done wrong which questions the validity of the whole contest in general doesn't it?

And then you went and said this

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">"As stated in the rules, you have the next 72 hours to decide! And tell your friends all around DGrin and the web in general, the more votes, the better!" </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Which once again raised all sorts of questions, so I'll quote you again.

I would be shocked if I'm the only one offended by comments like that above.

Those two statements by you opened the door to any and all comments in regards to this. When I'm wrong I apologize, not in this case. How about you? It wouldn't have mattered who won this contest. The questions are there by your statements and yours alone. So don't point a finger at me and state that I took something away from anyone, you did that all by yourself.

Joe

[NeilL]

<< create another level of membership ... >>

Presumably some consideration would have to be given to the situation where someone could join DG, enter all of the rounds of LPS2 (assuming similar format to 1) and still not be eligible to vote for themselves or anyone else ... because they're not a 'chatty' sort of person and haven't passed the necessary post threshold?

pp

Good point! Open for discussion. However, I think my suggestion is still good as it stands - people could enter the contests, but yes, perhaps could not vote, at least not until they became Voting Members. A check and an incentive.

@ Erik. Thanks for the behind-the-scenes. Always appreciated by people in this kind of situation. However, the rules as they exist make it possible (and legitimate) for skewing to occur for the reasons being discussed, even though as you point out that did not actually occur in the LPS final. Moreover, the sentiment has more than once been expressed wanting the results to have more credibility because they arise from the votes of members who actively participate in DGrin and are here not just to vote. People's preferences, especially when they go to the trouble of expressing them, are gems to be mined rather than threats to be argued with, IMHO. PS: WAS there an anomoly in Peter's case to cause you to acknowledge the necessity for his apology and so for you to then accept it?

Neil

[achambers]

A thought which occurred to me is to create another level of membership - "Voting Member", which is awarded after a certain number of posts to the forums, say 100, and which would have to be maintained by continued posting each year, so 2nd year of membership, a Voting Member would have to log another 100 posts to remain current. This would help to ensure that the people who are voting are actually participating in the life of DGrin day by day and cut out the opportunist member who joins only to vote. Neil

So, this means that I can enter LPS but I can't vote. I entered the last 4 rounds (I started entering as soon as I found DG) but I would have been excluded from voting because I only have ~30 posts. I see we joined at about the same time (Oct) and you have over 300 posts. It might be that I'm just not as chatty, I don't think that I should have to post every 3rd day just to be able to vote.

[DoctorIt]

Joe, you're entitled to your opinion, but please stop taking me out of context, I'm getting rather tired of being scrutinized for my good intents... there's no job description for what we do here on dgrin.

"tell your friends about dgrin" - yup guilty, trying to get publicity, shame on me.

"we want to do things right" - guilty again, I'm working behind the scenes, trying to raise sponsorship for LPSII, revisit the rules, oh, and that small thing of finding a replacement for Shay so you can have a proper professional photographer leading the way.


NeilL, reread my previous post, I have disclosed all the details already.

[NeilL]

So, this means that I can enter LPS but I can't vote. I entered the last 4 rounds (I started entering as soon as I found DG) but I would have been excluded from voting because I only have ~30 posts. I see we joined at about the same time (Oct) and you have over 300 posts. It might be that I'm just not as chatty, I don't think that I should have to post every 3rd day just to be able to vote.

Yes, I understand what you are saying. Of course, initially there woud be no time limit to how fast you would have to get those 100 posts to become a Voting Member, and even to maintain your voting rights you would have a year to get to another 100. I think probably you would have no trouble meeting those requirements.

Good to discuss this with you!

Neil

[NeilL]

NeilL, reread my previous post, I have disclosed all the details already.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thanking and praising you for!!!!!!! :scratch

Have you type cast me as your enemy????? :cry

You are not lacking in pop and intensity, Dear Moderator!!!!!!!! :wink

[DoctorIt]

Wow, you guys really think I'm a jerk, don't you? :dunno

I saw your comment, thanks, but you asked a question:

PS: WAS there an anomoly in Peter's case to cause you to acknowledge the necessity for his apology and so for you to then accept it?

[NeilL]

Wow, you guys really think I'm a jerk, don't you? :dunno

I saw your comment, thanks, but you asked a question:

There seemed to be a contradiction...

Oooh! "Jerk" is such an ugly word...

[pemmett]

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who has written and thanked me for what doing what I did. It may sound weird but this has actually taken a huge burden off my shoulders.

Secondly, I would like to personally thank Erik, Andy and Shay for doing an amazing job in organizing this brilliant competition:bow:bow:bow:bow:bow:bow

Is there anything else online that even comes close to this competition, where people from around the world come together for one purpose?

Maybe we should all stop complaining for a moment and ask what can "I" do? I don't know if I can help out in any way, but surely two or three people who have other full time jobs should not have take the whole weight of organizing the competition by themselves.

From reading all the posts over the last year, from the complaints about lack of transparency about judging, to the questioning about the judges choices for each theme, I am amazed that the organizers stuck with it. I have no problem with people complaining, but with every complaint there should also be a solution offered.

That said, from experience from this approach in my business, the general trap most people fall into is not knowing the full picture and what seems to be a good solution may not be practical for a numbers of reasons. However submitting problems with solutions makes it a lot harder for people to complain unconstructively.

Lastly, Erik you are in no way a "jerk" in any sense of the word, however I do question you sense of taste in eyewear :D

[Moogle Pepper]

Lastly, Erik you are in no way a "jerk" in any sense of the word, however I do question you sense of taste in eyewear :D

Yeah so do I... Those bug eye shades aren't really working out!


"As stated in the rules, you have the next 72 hours to decide! And tell your friends all around DGrin and the web in general, the more votes, the better!"

The ploy was to get more people into Dgrin, and get Dgrinners to vote for the best photo they believed to be. At least that's what I got from the statement.

[Harryb]

First to Peter, whose thread this is congrats, on a wonderful entry.

Now as for LPS. I don't care much for photography contests but as these contests go LPS is one of the better ones I've seen. The contest is supposed to challenge us and to grow our photography. From the shots entered I would have to say its been a rousing success in that area. My congrats to all of LPS's participants.

I had hoped that LPS would attract more shooters to Dgrin and to grow what I think is the best photography site on the net and it seems to have done that also. :thumb

Finally for LPS to have any integrity the results of the contest should be based on the subjective merits of the images entered and not on how well anyone or anyone's friends "campaigned". When we started to see votes coming in that appeared to reflect the latter we made a decision on the voting criteria.

LPS wil continue and we all strive to make it fun, challenging, and as fair as any of these frigging, meshugas can be. :deal

[Andy]

because what Joe said basically takes away from the excellent batch of finalists, and Vandana's stunning winner, and that my LPS friends, is a really, really crappy thing to do!

Hey Erik, I did no such thing. I simply stated my opinion. You on the other hand took it upon yourself to make the following two statements

Actually, I'll be the first to say, that might not happen... if we're gonna do it again, we're gonna do it right.

By saying that you opened the door to all kinds of questions as to what was done wrong which questions the validity of the whole contest in general doesn't it?

And then you went and said this

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">"As stated in the rules, you have the next 72 hours to decide! And tell your friends all around DGrin and the web in general, the more votes, the better!" </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Which once again raised all sorts of questions, so I'll quote you again.

I would be shocked if I'm the only one offended by comments like that above.

Those two statements by you opened the door to any and all comments in regards to this. When I'm wrong I apologize, not in this case. How about you? It wouldn't have mattered who won this contest. The questions are there by your statements and yours alone. So don't point a finger at me and state that I took something away from anyone, you did that all by yourself.

Joe So sad. Look, you all can gnash your teeth about this all you want!

Running this contest is hard, we have lots of people telling us what to do :)

There is NO DOUBT as to the winner of the LPS.

Did we (me, Erik, others) learn something about how we'll do the rules? You bet. Have we made mistakes? You bet. We learn from them. We've posted as much before.

Let's move on people.

[HoofClix]

Can't we keep in mind that comments in this thread are really like a conversation round a big table. A floated idea doesn't have to be taken as an attack. Just take it as a brainstorm.... How many of us make comments in our daily lives that are truly 100% considered? If our ideas were 100% considered, we wouldn't need to say anything at all....

So, lets have LPS-II be a contest exactly like LPS-I, but have absolutely NO prizes except for the bragging rights after each round. I think that everyone serious about their growth as a photographer will stick around no matter what the prizes....

[NeilL]

Can't we keep in mind that comments in this thread are really like a conversation round a big table. A floated idea doesn't have to be taken as an attack. Just take it as a brainstorm.... I think that everyone serious about their growth as a photographer will stick around no matter what the prizes....

Yes, I too feel a certain type of censorship operates from some of the DGrin crew. I feel it is absolutely necessary to acknowledge and respect all opinions/reactions/musings/desires/concerns/etc. Though some of the DGrin crew would seem to like the "official" view to be the only one to have air time, it is obvious that the DGrin creature has more than one mind. Simplify multidimensionality and you have everyone wearing forced faces orchestrated by the big brother, blah, bland, bloodless and boring. There are rules for posting, and they can be applied, but none of them require that we don't discuss things. People discuss things because they are important to them. What is important to them can't be dictated by someone else. "Move on..." to what? Conformity? I hope not!!

So, I don't like it that some missives from above seem sometimes to want to make some people feel bad about putting in their bit. Particularly since in the same breath more people are being encouraged to register and become members and contribute. There's a confusion at the bottom of that. There's no DGrin without real people to be here, and real people have minds and voices of their own!

Prizes or no prizes, there's no LPS without us members.

I have read many comments from members in various places in DGrin which express the sentiment that fellowship, participation and learning are the real prizes of competing. There is no logical reason why having nice material prizes as well compromises those others.

DGrin is business driven. This is a fact for all of us not to forget. If you don't like the product you don't take it. You can't be forced to.

[Andy]

What is important to them can't be dictated by someone else. "Move on..." to what? Conformity? I hope not!!

Not at all.

But let's see you try and answer hundreds of complaints by Private Message and email :)

Talk all you like in the forums, that's what this is for.

I just won't stand for the bashing of the winner or the finalists :)

[NeilL]

Not at all.

But let's see you try and answer hundreds of complaints by Private Message and email :)

Talk all you like in the forums, that's what this is for.

I just won't stand for the bashing of the winner or the finalists :)

Well, I certainly agree with you there!! The winner has won and has been congratulated!! I am very happy for that person, and with my consolation prize. Let's move on to LPS2 and all the excitement, striving and achieving, not to mention controversy, but most of all wonderful photos, it is sure to bring. :barb

[MarkTodd]

Apology not needed, but accepted. And now as your pennance, you join Vandana as 2nd perma-judge for LPSII! :click

[thebigsky]

Not at all.

But let's see you try and answer hundreds of complaints by Private Message and email :)

Talk all you like in the forums, that's what this is for.



Quite right too! I like to have the occasional moan but have always done so via the forum, if you've got a problem, at least have the courage to discuss it openly.

Charlie

[Greensquared]

A free to enter contest, with big prizes, lots of great people and feedback...do I feel I have a right to complain? Nope. Sure, I can whine along with the best of them, but I don't think it's actually justified...really. Shoot or get off the pot, so to speak. Quite frankly, as far as judging goes, I think Dgrin has the right to say, "We'll line 'em up, put on a blindfold and throw a dart to determine the winner." Perhaps more people would feel that were fair? (You know there will be at least one!)

I love this contest, despite any "flaws" and can't wait for the next round. I do wish Shay were still around, but I also want and to be a size 2 and 21 again. Some things in life just need to be embraced as they are.:D

[NeilL]

Quite frankly, as far as judging goes, I think Dgrin has the right to say, "We'll line 'em up, put on a blindfold and throw a dart to determine the winner."

Ouch, that sounds painful?!

But, yes of course it's their right, but WE supply the CONSEQUENCES of that right :D

And "take it or leave it" is not regarded as an attitude which grows business!

[HoofClix]

Yes, I too feel a certain type of censorship operates from some of the DGrin crew.

I thought my post was very clear. Above was the lead sentence in a reply refering to what I said there. I just want to say unequivocally that there was neither in either my post nor my mind anything that even hinted at censorship of any kind from any of the Dgrin moderators or it's forum participants. You were not agreeing with anything that came from me.

And by the way, Pemmett, you didn't offend me in any way. To me it's like the golfer coming out of the woods and saying he moved the ball by mistake and needed to assess himself a penalty. I wouldn't have ever known.. You have my respect! I haven't chimed in with forgiveness because you simply don't need it!

Now, back to the showring here at Pine Top Farm!!!

[NeilL]

I thought my post was very clear. Above was the lead sentence in a reply refering to what I said there. I just want to say unequivocally that there was neither in either my post nor my mind anything that even hinted at censorship of any kind from any of the Dgrin moderators or it's forum participants. You were not agreeing with anything that came from me.

And by the way, Pemmett, you didn't offend me in any way. To me it's like the golfer coming out of the woods and saying he moved the ball by mistake and needed to assess himself a penalty. I wouldn't have ever known.. You have my respect! I haven't chimed in with forgiveness because you simply don't need it!

Now, back to the showring here at Pine Top Farm!!!

I didn't mean to put words into your mouth. You make clear what you said does not imply what I interpreted it to do. My meanings are all my own. All is well!

[Felicia]

Kumbaya... kumbaya...

Huh? Oh.. what?

Right. Pemmett, I haven't chimed in to forgive you, either, because I don't think you violated any rules. However, since you ask for it, I'll give it.

Whew! That was easy. I wish all forgiveness matters were that easy... :lust

[gus]

Whats really got me pissed with the entire comp is the lack of a congratulatory hand shake in the winners announcement thread (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=85631) from a few of Vandana's competitors.

I only hope that im wrong & some people sent a PM & its not a case of poor sportsmanship. I mean its been over a week since the announcement.

[PaulThomasMcKee]

Whats really got me pissed with the entire comp is the lack of a congratulatory hand shake in the winners announcement thread (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=85631) from a few of Vandana's competitors.

I only hope that im wrong & some people sent a PM & its not a case of poor sportsmanship. I mean its been over a week since the announcement.

Gus, I offered my congratulations to V over on the Smugmug side in the Daily Photo (http://vandana.smugmug.com/gallery/4093660_rAmha/1/258499825_VA7L3/Large) gallery - as did others...and I'm sure there probably were some behind the scenes comunications too.

Peter...peace be with you, you have a very good heart :lust .

[LiquidAir]

Whats really got me pissed with the entire comp is the lack of a congratulatory hand shake in the winners announcement thread (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=85631) from a few of Vandana's competitors.

I only hope that im wrong & some people sent a PM & its not a case of poor sportsmanship. I mean its been over a week since the announcement.

I am one of the guilty parties here. As an explanation (but not an excuse), I'll say my family and I have been beset by a double whammy of out of town visitors and the flu over the last week and a bit. As such, I am a bit behind on a great number of things.

As for the OP:
Peter, I am sure personal loyalty of one sort or another played a role in many of the votes on many of the photographs. That, I think, is both inevitable and, to some degree, appropriate. Any serious gallery will ask to review of a portfolio of work rather than a single artwork because one piece, by itself, does not say enough about an artist to make a reasonable judgement. In this context of LPS and this forum, I think the loyalty factor serves to take into account the overall impact of the photographer's body of work. My personal interpretation of the intent of the competition is that voter bais is expected but voter predecision is a problem. Which was it in your case? I can't judge but, in that context, the fact that your friends, who believe in you and your work, took the time to register and vote doesn't seem so inappropriate.

[1pocket]

The forum admin can definitely create a minimal level of membership before members can vote. They can do it with a minimum time (say thirty days) or minimum posts. Some vbulletin forums use "reputation", but it tends to reflect a forum popularity contest. Personally, I don't mind the posts minimum, but it has to be lower than 100. There are people who seem to have all kinds of time on their hands and really run up the posts -- (sometimes of the kinda empty variety), and then their are others, that don't even check into dGrin every day, yet we are sincere in contributing.

[dadwtwins]

Wow, it takes tremendous courage to make an apology like this. You deserve all of my respect:bow

I would probably ask my friends to vote as well not thinking that having unbiased votes are the only votes that really matter win or loose.:thumb

Please continue to stay onboard and particapate in every aspect and benefit this great forum community has to offer:ivar.

[WildWally]

WOW !!!!
Some time away from Digital Grin , and look at all the drama I have missed !!!:scratch :scratch

It take a lot of courage to apologize like that to the OP . Let's hope all this soap opera stuff does not lure anyone away from a great site .