Video Codecs, Formats and Conversions

[DavidTO]

Ask questions, and hopefully shed some light on them here!

:deal

[DJ-S1]

Ok, I'll bite. Other threads seemed to recommend Handbrake to compress/convert files. It's free, so the price is right! But I can't get it to work with the avi or wmv files that Windows Movie Maker publishes, so I've been stuck.

Any thoughts on a Windows software solution (preferably freeware)?

[phototristan]

Ok, I'll bite. Other threads seemed to recommend Handbrake to compress/convert files. It's free, so the price is right! But I can't get it to work with the avi or wmv files that Windows Movie Maker publishes, so I've been stuck.

Any thoughts on a Windows software solution (preferably freeware)?

Hi,

Check out MPEG Streamclip:

http://www.squared5.com/

There's a PC and Mac version, it works well in my experience and hey, it's free! :)

Just open your file with it, choose export (I use export as a Quicktime movie), choose h.264. Audio should be AAC 128kps Stereo.

[DJ-S1]

Thanks Tristan, I'll give it a go - :thumb

[jziegler]

Wow, timely new formu and topic for me.

I need to record a couple of quick video clips this weekend and get them on a DVD. My wife is a voice teacher, and one of her students needs an audition DVD. I have arraned to borrow an HD camcorder (Panasonic that records in AVCHD) and need to burn a standard DVD that will play on a regular player. Any tips? I have the software that came with the camcorder avialable, as well as iMovie.

Thanks in advance.

[kc_tinman]

Wow, timely new formu and topic for me.

I need to record a couple of quick video clips this weekend and get them on a DVD. My wife is a voice teacher, and one of her students needs an audition DVD. I have arraned to borrow an HD camcorder (Panasonic that records in AVCHD) and need to burn a standard DVD that will play on a regular player. Any tips? I have the software that came with the camcorder avialable, as well as iMovie.

Thanks in advance.
I have sony hd cam and can burn hd to a regular disc that will play on a blu ray but BREAK A REGULAR DVD PLAYER. . This is according to my manuals as I have not atemped it myself.

[kc_tinman]

I am searching every alternative for HD editing and converting for uploading to web (here & elswhere) and it is rough out here:rofl. I have sony hd cam sr5 (i think) and bought Vegas Plat software (not easy to use yet.. but ill get it I hope) to edit & output hd stuff. I have tried Handbrake software & works smooth but the quicktime video (mpg4) is JERKY... and i tried changing some settings to no avail . Should I get quicktime pro to convert... am trying the squared four tonight that ws mentioned and see what happens 1st. oh yeah... my hd files (AVCHD) have to be converted to mpg2 before inputing them in handbrake.... doesn't that hurt the quality before I even get to the h.264 encoding? Thanks
BTW Vuze,com has hd content that looks great... u can upload hd there. Torrent based

[jziegler]

I have sony hd cam and can burn hd to a regular disc that will play on a blu ray but BREAK A REGULAR DVD PLAYER. . This is according to my manuals as I have not atemped it myself.

I have the manual for the camcorder I'm borrowing. I didn't have a chance to look at it earlier. They have a similar warning about the AVCHD files (may not be able to eject disc they say). But, I read a little more, and I'm in luck. They have a function in their software to create a standard DVD-video disc. Although the MPEG2 export may be slow. Looks like it should be good enough for what I need now.

Thanks for the warning.

[DI-Joe]

Nice timing on the forum.

I'm a bit of a video guru myself, specifically with codec/conversions and directshow filters.

I do a lot of device compatability, so if you're wondering if x-type codec plays on x-type device, go ahead and ask me. :)

I work with everything from cellphone video to 4K(if you have a year to render)

[DavidTO]

Nice timing on the forum.

I'm a bit of a video guru myself, specifically with codec/conversions and directshow filters.

I do a lot of device compatability, so if you're wondering if x-type codec plays on x-type device, go ahead and ask me. :)

I work with everything from cellphone video to 4K(if you have a year to render)


Fantastic! Glad to know we've got you as a resource! :clap

[brent]

Ok, I'll bite. Other threads seemed to recommend Handbrake to compress/convert files. It's free, so the price is right! But I can't get it to work with the avi or wmv files that Windows Movie Maker publishes, so I've been stuck.

Any thoughts on a Windows software solution (preferably freeware)?

Check Out this site for some good freeware
http://www.dvdvideosoft.com/products/dvd/Free-Video-Dub.htm

[Furono]

I work with everything from cellphone video to 4K(if you have a year to render)

DI-Joe:
I'm in Japan and most of our cells use .3gp and a newer variant of .3gp. Do you know of a good free conversion tool to get it in a format for Smugmug?

Thanks

Steve

[DI-Joe]

DI-Joe:
I'm in Japan and most of our cells use .3gp and a newer variant of .3gp. Do you know of a good free conversion tool to get it in a format for Smugmug?

Thanks

Steve

Actually, your best bet is going to be Quicktime Pro. it plays and transcodes 3gp into h.264(for smugmug) seamlessly even on variable framerate files. It's the best solution, so bone up for the Pro version of quicktime! :)

[Furono]

Thanks a bunch DI-Joe. Just what I wanted to know.

Steve

[StevenV]

if you're on a Mac, check out ffmpegX http://homepage.mac.com/major4/
it's a little old I think, but does wonders for me.

[Furono]

StevenV - My only Mac, a notebook, died for good last week. :dunno

I tried a few free converters, none worked that well on Smugmug. Broke down and got Quicktime Pro for Windows which worked wonders for .3gp (thanks to DI-Joe).

Thanks for the tip.

Steve

[ziggy53]

For Windows machines, be sure to try "Super" freeware.

http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html

[DJ-S1]

Super did the trick, thanks Ziggy! One of the more unusual download procedures, though- yikes.

I made a few trial clips as h.264. They look as good as the input files (which aren't that great to begin with) and they are at least half the file size.

My only problem now is the speed I can stream them from Smug. On Auto size, it takes up to 5 minutes to be fully available. At web size it take less time, but I still can't just let it run without having it stop part way through because it can't download it fast enough.

Am I the only one having this problem? It really is preventing me from jumping into videos fully. I need my family to be able to click on a movie and view it right away just like the photos or they get frustrated and give up.

[ziggy53]

Super did the trick, thanks Ziggy! One of the more unusual download procedures, though- yikes.

I made a few trial clips as h.264. They look as good as the input files (which aren't that great to begin with) and they are at least half the file size.

My only problem now is the speed I can stream them from Smug. On Auto size, it takes up to 5 minutes to be fully available. At web size it take less time, but I still can't just let it run without having it stop part way through because it can't download it fast enough.

Am I the only one having this problem? It really is preventing me from jumping into videos fully. I need my family to be able to click on a movie and view it right away just like the photos or they get frustrated and give up.

In order to achieve the level of quality that SmugMug is committed to, and using the codec they chose to use, you would have to resort to some rather extreme measures to resample the video prior to conversion.

YouTube uses both downsampling and a different type of codec that allows faster streaming, but at a major loss in quality. You might consider using YouTube to provide a "teaser" video, and then directing family and friends to SmugMug for better quality.

Otherwise, shorten the video to shorten the download time.

[StevenV]

Thanks Ziggy - I'm going to check out Super this weekend for my college-boy son; they're doing videos for their classes and young-adult worship as well. Does it take care of burning to DVD as well, or just create the VIDEO_TS etc. folders/files?

[ziggy53]

Thanks Ziggy - I'm going to check out Super this weekend for my college-boy son; they're doing videos for their classes and young-adult worship as well. Does it take care of burning to DVD as well, or just create the VIDEO_TS etc. folders/files?

"Super" is a video player and transcoder. In order to create a DVD, you need:

1) Software "burner", which often includes its own transcoder engine.
2) Hardware "burner". (It's surprising how many people think DVD-Rom drives can burn DVDs.)
3) Compatible blank media. It might be DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW or DVD+RW. It must be compatible with both the burner drive and with the target player for presentation.

Typically you would also use a video editor to do basic trimming and corrections prior to burning.

If your computer came with a DVD burner drive, it probably also has burning software installed. I recommend you use that software if possible.

Other decent software comes from Roxio and Nero.

Assuming your burning software can input your video files, it will probably also convert the file format into what it uses for the DVD compilation. In that case, you don't need to run the file through Super first.

If the video files are not compatible with the burner software, then you might have to process the files through Super to get a compatible file format with the burner software.

You probably figured it can get fairly involved and way beyond the scope of this thread, so please look here for additional information:

http://www.bealecorner.com/trv900/DVD/authoring.html

Just an FYI, I typically record in DV, transfer into the computer using either Canopus or generic IEEE-488 "firewire", edit with Canopus, Premiere or Vegas Video, and then burn with the drive and software that came with the machine, in this case "muvee autoproducer" (yuck) or "MyDVD" (double-yuck). I also record back to DV and then transfer DV into a stand-alone DVD recorder, which works pretty well.

[StevenV]

good summary; I'm familiar with most of it (I do this often on my Mac (using a combination of FinalCut, ffMpegx, DVD Studio Pro & Toast)), I was hoping need some pointers for my son who's using Windows. If your computer came with a DVD burner drive, it probably also has burning software installed. I recommend you use that software if possible.There's the problem; his drive's been wiped and rebuilt so many times that he no longer has the software that came from the original vendor. Being a cash-poor college student he's hoping not to have to pay for Roxio (that'd been my first impulse as well).

thanks

[Kenny304]

ImgBurn works well for me and it's free.

http://www.imgburn.com/

ImgBurn is a lightweight CD / DVD / HD DVD / Blu-ray burning application.

[ziggy53]

ImgBurn works well for me and it's free.

http://www.imgburn.com/

ImgBurn is a lightweight CD / DVD / HD DVD / Blu-ray burning application.

Thanks Kenny and welcome to the Digital Grin. :clap

[ziggy53]

good summary; I'm familiar with most of it (I do this often on my Mac (using a combination of FinalCut, ffMpegx, DVD Studio Pro & Toast)), I was hoping need some pointers for my son who's using Windows. There's the problem; his drive's been wiped and rebuilt so many times that he no longer has the software that came from the original vendor. Being a cash-poor college student he's hoping not to have to pay for Roxio (that'd been my first impulse as well).

thanks

If your son is using an older OS, try not to load more than one DVD burner software at a time. Starting with XP it does not seem to be as much a problem.

It may take some serious time to get the software and hardware installed for serious video production so if your son can get to a video lab on campus that is the primary recommendation. If he is shooting DV have him do simple editing between two camcorders to cut out most of the junk first.

[StevenV]

ImgBurn works well for me and it's free.Very nice, thanks. Now I just need to find a good tool to transcode wmv files (from Windows Movie Maker (bletch! but it's what he's got.)).

[Kenny304]

Thanks Kenny and welcome to the Digital Grin. :clap

You're welcome.

Glad to be here, been lurking in the shadows for a week or so, thought it was time to come out and say Hi.

[Kenny304]

Very nice, thanks. Now I just need to find a good tool to transcode wmv files (from Windows Movie Maker (bletch! but it's what he's got.)).

You're welcome, hope it's as usefull for your son as it has been for me.

Umm... what are you wanting to do with the .wmv files?

[StevenV]

Umm... what are you wanting to do with the .wmv files?get 'em onto a DVD that can play in a consumer player. I found DVD Flick http://www.dvdflick.net/ which is a little rough around the edges perhaps (or perhaps I just need to actually read the documentation) did the trick.

[DavidTO]

I'm an offline editor. I'm working in FCP everyday, but it's DV offline, all the time. Occasionally I might have a 16:9 project, but mostly it's 4:3. So, obviously, all these codecs and conversions have me completely confused.

I did a small favor for a friend, cutting some talking head footage that was shot in widescreen HD. He wants a little bitty square video to play in flash on his web page. But whatever I output did not work for the web guys. I could NOT get a square output with the anamorphic settings right. He was either stretched or squished.

Anybody have an easy way for me to take the HD footage, just crop off the sides and have it end up being a nice, square flash file?

The site is here (http://bettermen.org/), you can see where the video is to go in the "coming soon" spot.

[StevenV]

ffmpegx will do that, I think. http://ffmpegX.com

23553

I haven't tried it though, so I can't tell if that "autosize" is a crop or stretch/squash.

[StevenV]

hmm, well... maybe not. unless you dig into the settings more and figure out so to wrangle it into doing what you want. here's a (4x3 w/letterboxed widescreen) vid on which I used "autosize = 1:1" and set the height & width to 160: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0lRqz9PzFg

squished and pretty ugly.

original and tests are at http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=PirateT7

[ziggy53]

...

I did a small favor for a friend, cutting some talking head footage that was shot in widescreen HD. He wants a little bitty square video to play in flash on his web page. But whatever I output did not work for the web guys. I could NOT get a square output with the anamorphic settings right. He was either stretched or squished.

Anybody have an easy way for me to take the HD footage, just crop off the sides and have it end up being a nice, square flash file?

...

David,

I found this:

http://www.geniusdv.com/news_and_tutorials/2008/01/outputting-16-by-9-as-4-by-3-in-final-cut-pro.php

I suspect that will letterbox the 16:9 sequence but I would think you could apply a crop during the import?

[draggin]

Simple question really, once you have produced your masterpiece, which format do you prefer to export it to, windows video, quicktime, mpeg??

Any particular reason??

Tim

[ziggy53]

I'm still SD DV and if it's an important project I send the whole thing into a DV file on the computer first. Then I "print" that back to the camcorder to fix and finalize the changes.

From there I usually burn a DVD using a set-top/standalone burner.

If it's really important I will often also transcode the DV file into MPEG-2, and copy that onto a data DVD.

If I want to copy it to SmugMug I usually transcode the DV into H.264 to save time in the upload and so I can verify quality on my machine.

If it's something for YouTube i'll convert to FLV, 320x240, 25fps.

That about covers it.

[vaio2006]

Hm.. way back when (like back in 1999) I use to make wmv files for streaming stuff online...

now-a-days, I export everything to QuickTime or DV files. I haven't quite made the transition to HDCAM / XDCAM HD yet, but once I do, probably going to stick with Quicktime or AVI files.....

[TAKE-N-IMAGES]

Nice timing on the forum.

I'm a bit of a video guru myself, specifically with codec/conversions and directshow filters.

I do a lot of device compatability, so if you're wondering if x-type codec plays on x-type device, go ahead and ask me. :)

I work with everything from cellphone video to 4K(if you have a year to render)

Hey DI-Joe,

Do you know the customization codes to make videos play automaticly(like on the Homepage) & how to hide the Smugmug Logo.
I appreciate your time.

Fish

[DI-Joe]

Hey DI-Joe,

Do you know the customization codes to make videos play automaticly(like on the Homepage) & how to hide the Smugmug Logo.
I appreciate your time.

Fish

I'm not sure just yet, the default ones you might expect dont' work with the shiz player so that's out. I hear tell that smugmug will be documenting the variables. I thought about grabbing the SWF and extracting the variables myself, but I'm far too lazy. I'd rather they just tell me.

[jfriend]

I'm new to video and man is this confusing. I bought a new Sony HDR-SR12. It's HD (1920x1080) and records in AVCHD to it's hard disk. I wrongly assumed when I bought it that Smugmug would support it's video format, but after several failed upload attempts, it has been confirmed that Smugmug doesn't support the video format that comes out of the camera. Bummer.


So, I've been struggling for over 24 hours now to find something that can convert it to something that Smugmug understands. The software that comes with the camera won't save to any other HD format. Per Tristan's advice in another thread, I first tried VirtualDub, but it couldn't open my videos at all.

Then, he suggested I try MPEG Streamclip. I downloaded that, but it needed QuickTime stuff that's beyond the free QuickTime from Apple which I didn't have. So, I followed it's suggestions and deinstalled QuickTime from Apple and installed QuickTime Alternative, but even after doing that, MPEG Streamclip still says it doesn't have all the QuickTime stuff it needs. So, I gave up on that option.

At this point, I had no other ideas for a free converter that would do the job. If anyone else has any good ideas, I'm all ears. At this point, I just want to do format conversion to a Smugmug-supported HD format and probably trimming. I'll save video editing for later.

So if I can't find a free program, I figured I'd have to buy something. I decided to try the free trial of Sony Vegas Move Studio Platinum. Since it's made by Sony, it ought to support my camera files. Sure enough, it does.

But, now I have to figure out what format to save it to for Smugmug. I've never seen such a daunting array of choices full of acronyms I have no idea what they mean. To save, I have a choice of 16 formats and each format has a choice of 5-20 video codes and audio codecs and each of those has 5-10 settings within them (compression levels, bit rates, etc...). I really have no idea what a good choice is for Smugmug upload that will preserve as much quality as possible from the original and not be any larger than it needs to be to preserve that quality.

My choice of save formats are:
AVC/AAC MP4
MPEG-1
MPEG-2
OGG
MOV
RM
SONY AVC/AAC MP4
AVI
WAV
WMA
WMV

Given that I'm starting in AVCHD, what should I convert to before uploading to Smugmug? And what video and audio codecs should I use? By my calculations there are several hundred permutations of choices here and I'm hoping for some guidance on what is best.

Also, my camera records in 5.1 sound, but I think that's not supported by Smugmug. Does that means I have to do something else to the sound?

Man, what a mess. I've never pissed away so much time in my life trying to figure this out. All I'm tryhing to do is get a 45 second HD video up on my site from my brand new Sony camera. I've gotten a low-res MPEG2 version up, but don't know what choices will get a full res 1920x1080 version up.

[DavidTO]

John,

Video codecs are truly horrendous. I work in video every day, but thankfully never have to worry about it, since I'm all offline, DV, and I have assistants to worry about things that aren't.

I have no help to offer, just that I hear ya, brother.

[jfriend]

I'm new to video and man is this confusing. I bought a new Sony HDR-SR12. It's HD (1920x1080) and records in AVCHD to it's hard disk. I wrongly assumed when I bought it that Smugmug would support it's video format, but after several failed upload attempts, it has been confirmed that Smugmug doesn't support the video format that comes out of the camera. Bummer.


So, I've been struggling for over 24 hours now to find something that can convert it to something that Smugmug understands. The software that comes with the camera won't save to any other HD format. Per Tristan's advice in another thread, I first tried VirtualDub, but it couldn't open my videos at all.

Then, he suggested I try MPEG Streamclip. I downloaded that, but it needed QuickTime stuff that's beyond the free QuickTime from Apple which I didn't have. So, I followed it's suggestions and deinstalled QuickTime from Apple and installed QuickTime Alternative, but even after doing that, MPEG Streamclip still says it doesn't have all the QuickTime stuff it needs. So, I gave up on that option.

At this point, I had no other ideas for a free converter that would do the job. If anyone else has any good ideas, I'm all ears. At this point, I just want to do format conversion to a Smugmug-supported HD format and probably trimming. I'll save video editing for later.

So if I can't find a free program, I figured I'd have to buy something. I decided to try the free trial of Sony Vegas Move Studio Platinum. Since it's made by Sony, it ought to support my camera files. Sure enough, it does.

But, now I have to figure out what format to save it to for Smugmug. I've never seen such a daunting array of choices full of acronyms I have no idea what they mean. To save, I have a choice of 16 formats and each format has a choice of 5-20 video codes and audio codecs and each of those has 5-10 settings within them (compression levels, bit rates, etc...). I really have no idea what a good choice is for Smugmug upload that will preserve as much quality as possible from the original and not be any larger than it needs to be to preserve that quality.

My choice of save formats are:
AVC/AAC MP4
MPEG-1
MPEG-2
OGG
MOV
RM
SONY AVC/AAC MP4
AVI
WAV
WMA
WMV

Given that I'm starting in AVCHD, what should I convert to before uploading to Smugmug? And what video and audio codecs should I use? By my calculations there are several hundred permutations of choices here and I'm hoping for some guidance on what is best.

Also, my camera records in 5.1 sound, but I think that's not supported by Smugmug. Does that means I have to do something else to the sound?

Man, what a mess. I've never pissed away so much time in my life trying to figure this out. All I'm tryhing to do is get a 45 second HD video up on my site from my brand new Sony camera. I've gotten a low-res MPEG2 version up, but don't know what choices will get a full res 1920x1080 version up.

I think I may give up on Sony Vegas Platinum. Apparently, it will NOT save to true 1080i (only 720). You need the pro version of the product ($549) just to do a basic edit and save what came from the camera at full 1080i/p. Man, this is ridiculous.

Despite what I've read on the net about their program stability, I may have to try the trial versions of ULEAD and Pinnacle.

[jfriend]

John,

Video codecs are truly horrendous. I work in video every day, but thankfully never have to worry about it, since I'm all offline, DV, and I have assistants to worry about things that aren't.

I have no help to offer, just that I hear ya, brother.

David, are there any good forums that talk about video editing software where I might find some experts in this stuff?

Somebody must know what good mid-level editing software is for all these new AVCHD video cameras that could both read the Sony files and save to one of the Smugmug support formats. I think that rather than wasting a whole another day, I need to find people who know about this stuff.

[DavidTO]

I don't follow those forums, but I do know about this one (http://www.2-popforums.com/forums/).

[phototristan]

I recommend either a .mov or .avi with the h.264 codec, AAC 128kbps audio (stereo or mono).

If you can't do the h.264 codec, just make sure your video uses one of our supported codecs and you should be fine. Here's the list:

http://wiki.smugmug.com/display/SmugMug/Video+Formats

I hope this helps.


I'm new to video and man is this confusing. I bought a new Sony HDR-SR12. It's HD (1920x1080) and records in AVCHD to it's hard disk. I wrongly assumed when I bought it that Smugmug would support it's video format, but after several failed upload attempts, it has been confirmed that Smugmug doesn't support the video format that comes out of the camera. Bummer.


So, I've been struggling for over 24 hours now to find something that can convert it to something that Smugmug understands. The software that comes with the camera won't save to any other HD format. Per Tristan's advice in another thread, I first tried VirtualDub, but it couldn't open my videos at all.

Then, he suggested I try MPEG Streamclip. I downloaded that, but it needed QuickTime stuff that's beyond the free QuickTime from Apple which I didn't have. So, I followed it's suggestions and deinstalled QuickTime from Apple and installed QuickTime Alternative, but even after doing that, MPEG Streamclip still says it doesn't have all the QuickTime stuff it needs. So, I gave up on that option.

At this point, I had no other ideas for a free converter that would do the job. If anyone else has any good ideas, I'm all ears. At this point, I just want to do format conversion to a Smugmug-supported HD format and probably trimming. I'll save video editing for later.

So if I can't find a free program, I figured I'd have to buy something. I decided to try the free trial of Sony Vegas Move Studio Platinum. Since it's made by Sony, it ought to support my camera files. Sure enough, it does.

But, now I have to figure out what format to save it to for Smugmug. I've never seen such a daunting array of choices full of acronyms I have no idea what they mean. To save, I have a choice of 16 formats and each format has a choice of 5-20 video codes and audio codecs and each of those has 5-10 settings within them (compression levels, bit rates, etc...). I really have no idea what a good choice is for Smugmug upload that will preserve as much quality as possible from the original and not be any larger than it needs to be to preserve that quality.

My choice of save formats are:
AVC/AAC MP4
MPEG-1
MPEG-2
OGG
MOV
RM
SONY AVC/AAC MP4
AVI
WAV
WMA
WMV

Given that I'm starting in AVCHD, what should I convert to before uploading to Smugmug? And what video and audio codecs should I use? By my calculations there are several hundred permutations of choices here and I'm hoping for some guidance on what is best.

Also, my camera records in 5.1 sound, but I think that's not supported by Smugmug. Does that means I have to do something else to the sound?

Man, what a mess. I've never pissed away so much time in my life trying to figure this out. All I'm tryhing to do is get a 45 second HD video up on my site from my brand new Sony camera. I've gotten a low-res MPEG2 version up, but don't know what choices will get a full res 1920x1080 version up.

[jfriend]

I recommend either a .mov or .avi with the h.264 codec, AAC 128kbps audio (stereo or mono).

If you can't do the h.264 codec, just make sure your video uses one of our supported codecs and you should be fine. Here's the list:

http://wiki.smugmug.com/display/SmugMug/Video+Formats

I hope this helps.

The only program I've found so far that can read my camera's files, doesn't write h.264 codec. Is there a second favorite codec?

[ziggy53]

David, are there any good forums that talk about video editing software where I might find some experts in this stuff?

Somebody must know what good mid-level editing software is for all these new AVCHD video cameras that could both read the Sony files and save to one of the Smugmug support formats. I think that rather than wasting a whole another day, I need to find people who know about this stuff.

What does Sony have to say?

[ziggy53]

I'm new to video and man is this confusing. I bought a new Sony HDR-SR12. It's HD (1920x1080) and records in AVCHD to it's hard disk. I wrongly assumed when I bought it that Smugmug would support it's video format, but after several failed upload attempts, it has been confirmed that Smugmug doesn't support the video format that comes out of the camera. Bummer.


So, I've been struggling for over 24 hours now to find something that can convert it to something that Smugmug understands. The software that comes with the camera won't save to any other HD format. Per Tristan's advice in another thread, I first tried VirtualDub, but it couldn't open my videos at all.

Then, he suggested I try MPEG Streamclip. I downloaded that, but it needed QuickTime stuff that's beyond the free QuickTime from Apple which I didn't have. So, I followed it's suggestions and deinstalled QuickTime from Apple and installed QuickTime Alternative, but even after doing that, MPEG Streamclip still says it doesn't have all the QuickTime stuff it needs. So, I gave up on that option.

At this point, I had no other ideas for a free converter that would do the job. If anyone else has any good ideas, I'm all ears. At this point, I just want to do format conversion to a Smugmug-supported HD format and probably trimming. I'll save video editing for later.

So if I can't find a free program, I figured I'd have to buy something. I decided to try the free trial of Sony Vegas Move Studio Platinum. Since it's made by Sony, it ought to support my camera files. Sure enough, it does.

But, now I have to figure out what format to save it to for Smugmug. I've never seen such a daunting array of choices full of acronyms I have no idea what they mean. To save, I have a choice of 16 formats and each format has a choice of 5-20 video codes and audio codecs and each of those has 5-10 settings within them (compression levels, bit rates, etc...). I really have no idea what a good choice is for Smugmug upload that will preserve as much quality as possible from the original and not be any larger than it needs to be to preserve that quality.

My choice of save formats are:
AVC/AAC MP4
MPEG-1
MPEG-2
OGG
MOV
RM
SONY AVC/AAC MP4
AVI
WAV
WMA
WMV

Given that I'm starting in AVCHD, what should I convert to before uploading to Smugmug? And what video and audio codecs should I use? By my calculations there are several hundred permutations of choices here and I'm hoping for some guidance on what is best.

Also, my camera records in 5.1 sound, but I think that's not supported by Smugmug. Does that means I have to do something else to the sound?

Man, what a mess. I've never pissed away so much time in my life trying to figure this out. All I'm tryhing to do is get a 45 second HD video up on my site from my brand new Sony camera. I've gotten a low-res MPEG2 version up, but don't know what choices will get a full res 1920x1080 version up.

John,

It would appear that if you load "FFMPEG" on your system, Vegas will recognize it and allow h.264 output. It is freeware. No idea if it will work with the trial version or not. No idea if it supports 1080.

Audio may still be a problem. Will your camcorder record in stereo instead of 5:1? (Audio Mode, page 69 in your manual.)

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ffmpeg

[jfriend]

John,

It would appear that if you load "FFMPEG" on your system, Vegas will recognize it and allow h.264 output. It is freeware. No idea if it will work with the trial version or not. No idea if it supports 1080.

Audio may still be a problem. Will your camcorder record in stereo instead of 5:1? (Audio Mode, page 69 in your manual.)

http://www.videohelp.com/tools/ffmpeg

I can't find any way to use FFMPEG in Vegas. As best I can find, it's just a command line utility (with support for a zillion formats and codecs), but I haven't found a way to "install" codecs into your system with it. If you see any references to how to use it directly in Vegas, I'd love some pointers.

What I did find is a way to add a lossless, high quality video codec to your system (huffyuv), render using that in Vegas (to a huge file), then take that file and use FFMPEG on it to render to h.264. There's a tutorial describing how to do this here (http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/08/11/from-dvhdvavchd-to-ps3xbox360appletv/). It's not for the faint of heart and, unfortunately, seems to show how complicated this all can get. What a mess!

[ziggy53]

I can't find any way to use FFMPEG in Vegas. As best I can find, it's just a command line utility (with support for a zillion formats and codecs), but I haven't found a way to "install" codecs into your system with it. If you see any references to how to use it directly in Vegas, I'd love some pointers.

What I did find is a way to add a lossless, high quality video codec to your system (huffyuv), render using that in Vegas (to a huge file), then take that file and use FFMPEG on it to render to h.264. There's a tutorial describing how to do this here (http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/08/11/from-dvhdvavchd-to-ps3xbox360appletv/). It's not for the faint of heart and, unfortunately, seems to show how complicated this all can get. What a mess!

John,

I'm a couple hundred miles from my machine now or I would try some things, even if only on my older version of Vegas, that might give a hint how it works.

The best discussion I can find just now seems to indicate that the FFMPEG might be available to Vegas using the "FFDShow" filter (discussion here):

http://www.videohelp.com/forum/archive/update-for-sony-vegas-7-0-e-t328693.html

FFDShow here:

http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=173941

There's a good chance I am not thinking correctly (all those "FFs" start to look the same.) Hopefully, there is an answer here somewhere.

[jfriend]

I can't find any way to use FFMPEG in Vegas. As best I can find, it's just a command line utility (with support for a zillion formats and codecs), but I haven't found a way to "install" codecs into your system with it. If you see any references to how to use it directly in Vegas, I'd love some pointers.

What I did find is a way to add a lossless, high quality video codec to your system (huffyuv), render using that in Vegas (to a huge file), then take that file and use FFMPEG on it to render to h.264. There's a tutorial describing how to do this here (http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/08/11/from-dvhdvavchd-to-ps3xbox360appletv/). It's not for the faint of heart and, unfortunately, seems to show how complicated this all can get. What a mess!

Well, I did finally succeed in getting what I wanted up onto Smugmug. Here's what I had to do (I still think there has to be a better way):

Install the Huffuv 2.1.1 lossless codec from here (http://www.neuron2.net/www.math.berkeley.edu/benrg/huffyuv-2.1.1.zip).
Right click on the .INF file in that codec and pick install. This installs the codec into Windows (which then makes it available in Sony Vegas)
Open my video in Sony Vegas
Select Render As, select .AVI as the file type and pick a bunch of options as described here in step 3 here (http://eugenia.gnomefiles.org/2007/08/11/from-dvhdvavchd-to-ps3xbox360appletv/). Note that the steps 4-6 in that same article didn't work for me. FFMPEG just crashed on me everytime, so I ended up using Super (described below). For the purposes of this workflow, just read step 3 in that article.
Save this file out as an uncompressed AVI
Now download and install Super (http://www.erightsoft.com/SUPER.html) which is a Windows GUI on top of a bunch of different converters (FFMPEG among them).
Open Super and pick MOV output container, H.264/AVC output video codec, AAC output audio codec, 1280x720, 16x9, stretch to fill, AAC as the audio codec, set the output directory to the same directory as the source file, pick the uncompressed AVI file we previously generated and tell it to Encode.
Finally I ended up with a 1280x720 H.264 video file that Smugmug can read. Curiously, my end file was only 1/4 the size of my previous attempts and it looked just as good so that's good for upload time too. Perhaps that's because of how good the H.264 compression is.So anyway, I wouldn't say I'm pleased with all the steps of the workflow and heaven knows this is certainly not something most people can figure out how to do, but I at least know how to get a video up online now.

The bugaboo seems to be that neither Smugmug nor any of the free converters can read the Sony AVCHD out of the camera. I wonder why that is?

[ziggy53]

...

The bugaboo seems to be that neither Smugmug nor any of the free converters can read the Sony AVCHD out of the camera. I wonder why that is?

If I understand the current situation, the Sony variant of AVCHD that is used in the HDR-SR12 is simply different enough that many of the current software cannot properly "decode" the source video. Likewise, you can not take a Sony AVCHD file and load it into a Panasonic camcorder with AVCHD and expect it to play.

It appears that each manufacturer is able to design their own "tweeks" into their own products, making the resulting files incompatible.

There is a wiki about AVCHD that might help to understand the format, but it does not get into the differences between the "dialects" of the same format:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

[cfurlong]

I have the complete Adobe Suite and have been using Flash Video Encoder to make FLVs with On2 VP6 and getting great results. I just did one this morning that was a 600mb DV format 29.97fps @ 640x480, and the FLV ended up at 18mb and looks great. Unfortunatelly, SmugMug doesn't accept FLV. I compressed the same file in QTpro with H.264 and the file ended up being 213mb and didn't look as good (got to figure out interlacing issue in QTpro). This could be due to audio codec, as I don't knwo them as well as video.

I'm new to the forum and will dig around to find out what other people have been using.

[phototristan]

Hi, we do accept flv!:

http://wiki.smugmug.net/display/SmugMug/Video+Formats




I have the complete Adobe Suite and have been using Flash Video Encoder to make FLVs with On2 VP6 and getting great results. I just did one this morning that was a 600mb DV format 29.97fps @ 640x480, and the FLV ended up at 18mb and looks great. Unfortunatelly, SmugMug doesn't accept FLV. I compressed the same file in QTpro with H.264 and the file ended up being 213mb and didn't look as good (got to figure out interlacing issue in QTpro). This could be due to audio codec, as I don't knwo them as well as video.

I'm new to the forum and will dig around to find out what other people have been using.

[cfurlong]

Hi, we do accept flv!:

http://wiki.smugmug.net/display/SmugMug/Video+Formats

Ah...I see the problem now...the file is only 18mb, but it's over 2.5 minutes long. Strange requirement by the way. Doesn't seem like the length of a movie would matter, just the file size. Oh well, I'll keep using Ning for music videos ;-(

[phototristan]

We use length because it's a bit easier to understand for many.

When I shoot a video clip with my video camera, I really have no idea how large the file is going to be, but I always know how long it is. Also, a video can grow and shrink in file size depending upon many factors such as video compression, audio bit rate, etc, etc. Whereas the length of the video is a constant.

[JDSX]

Every time I try to convert a 1920x1080 mpg file to h.264 in Super the sound ends up out-of-sync with the video. This is becoming a real problem for me because some of my videos are too large to upload to Smugmug. When Smugmug does the automatic conversion post-upload it stays synched; I can't explain or fix it.

[cfurlong]

We use length because it's a bit easier to understand for many.

When I shoot a video clip with my video camera, I really have no idea how large the file is going to be, but I always know how long it is. Also, a video can grow and shrink in file size depending upon many factors such as video compression, audio bit rate, etc, etc. Whereas the length of the video is a constant.

Exactly...as codecs improve, file sizes are going to get smaller as video quality goes up. If the restriction is based on storage, better codecs should allow us to have longer videos with less storage. As technology in general improves, longer videos at higher qualities will be easier to stream, but 2.5 minutes will always be 2.5 minutes, so we won't benefit from new technology or techniques.

I've just never seen storage limits based on time. Wierd convention IMO.

[phototristan]

Many if not most other video sites certainly do have time requirements. Flickr limits you to 90 seconds, YouTube is 10 minutes as examples.

I've just never seen storage limits based on time. Wierd convention IMO.

[ziggy53]

Every time I try to convert a 1920x1080 mpg file to h.264 in Super the sound ends up out-of-sync with the video. This is becoming a real problem for me because some of my videos are too large to upload to Smugmug. When Smugmug does the automatic conversion post-upload it stays synched; I can't explain or fix it.

What are your settings for Super?

Make sure the video (green) Frames/sec is 29.97.

[DoctorIt]

When I convert from .avi to .m4v using Quicktime Pro (Export > to iPod, w/default settings), why do my files get bigger? Case in point - a 35 minute movie was 350mb as the .avi, after conversion to .m4v, it was over 450mb. That is a really big increase.

What gives? Also, QT won't let me alter the default settings when I select "to ipod" (all grayed out).

http://img.skitch.com/20081117-jj2k8mg9ydip9h4snw8m7cqp7w.jpg

[BenA2]

Well, I did finally succeed in getting what I wanted up onto Smugmug. Here's what I had to do (I still think there has to be a better way):

So anyway, I wouldn't say I'm pleased with all the steps of the workflow and heaven knows this is certainly not something most people can figure out how to do, but I at least know how to get a video up online now.
John, I'm in almost the exact same predicament as you. I have a Sony HDR-SR11 and want to upload movies from it to SmugMug.

The good news is, I've figured out how to do this using only Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum. I simply import the m2t files from the camera into Vegas, then render them with "Make Movie" from the file menu. The "trick" was that I had to make a custom render template under the "Advanced Render" option in the "Make Movie - Render Settings" dialog. In brief, the video render options I selected were:

Type: Sony AVC (*.mp4, *.m2tx, *.avc)
Template: Custom
Video Format: AVC
Frame Size: (Custom frame size)
Width: 1280
Height: 720
Profile: Main
Entropy Coding: CABAC
Frame rate: 29.970 (NTSC)
Field Order: None (progressive scan)
Pixel Aspect: 1.0000
Bit rate: 4,000,000

The key here, really, is the AVC format, which encodes video in H.264. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you can change the other parameters. I chose to render to 720p since that's SmugMug's max resolution.

I end up with an *.mp4 file I can upload to SmugMug without a hitch.

If you want to try it and need more info, let me know. I can give you a bit more of a step-by-step process with screen shots.

[jfriend]

John, I'm in almost the exact same predicament as you. I have a Sony HDR-SR11 and want to upload movies from it to SmugMug.

The good news is, I've figured out how to do this using only Sony Vegas Movie Studio 9 Platinum. I simply import the m2t files from the camera into Vegas, then render them with "Make Movie" from the file menu. The "trick" was that I had to make a custom render template under the "Advanced Render" option in the "Make Movie - Render Settings" dialog. In brief, the video render options I selected were:

Type: Sony AVC (*.mp4, *.m2tx, *.avc)
Template: Custom
Video Format: AVC
Frame Size: (Custom frame size)
Width: 1280
Height: 720
Profile: Main
Entropy Coding: CABAC
Frame rate: 29.970 (NTSC)
Field Order: None (progressive scan)
Pixel Aspect: 1.0000
Bit rate: 4,000,000

The key here, really, is the AVC format, which encodes video in H.264. I haven't tried it, but I'm sure you can change the other parameters. I chose to render to 720p since that's SmugMug's max resolution.

I end up with an *.mp4 file I can upload to SmugMug without a hitch.

If you want to try it and need more info, let me know. I can give you a bit more of a step-by-step process with screen shots.

Cool. Thanks for the update. At the time I last did the research, I think only the pro version could actually save edited video as HD. After investing in an HD video camera, that seemed kind of silly and the pro version seemed ridiculously expensive for me needs. Either I misunderstood that limitation at the time or they've moved this capability into the Platinum version. I never really solved my problem (lots of unedited video from a trip to Kenya waiting for me to do something with) so I may give it a go with Vegas Platinum. Thanks for the info. If I run into any snags, I'll let you know.