i sold my 1Ds Mark II

[Andy]

(thanks dgrin flea market!) a dgrinner bought it, to be named later, unless he outs himself first :lol3

why?

yes, it's a great camera. i'm really glad i got the chance to use it for the past three months. the image quality, the resolution, the detail is amazing. the full-frame, the viewfinder, the look/fell everything about it is top-shelf.

it's just not ideal for the majority of my shooting, which is situational in nature. street work, in particular. yes, i love doing landscapes, and the Mark II is without peer in this regard - but - the 20d is no slouch either, and i have carefully reviewed my 20d shots and 1Ds Mark II shots, and at large size, 13"x19", the 20d is an outstanding performer.

bottomline - for my personal purposes, the 20d is better suited.

i highly recommend the 1Ds Mark II, and I stand by each and every observation i've made here in this forum on the camera.

[Nir]

Next thing you're going to tell us is you ordered a Nikon ... :rofl



Andy, do miss the 828?

[Andy]

Next thing you're going to tell us is you ordered a Nikon ... :rofl



Andy, do miss the 828?

hmm

828? tasty camera :lol3

[DavidTO]

(thanks dgrin flea market!) a dgrinner bought it, to be named later, unless he outs himself first :lol3

why?

yes, it's a great camera. i'm really glad i got the chance to use it for the past three months. the image quality, the resolution, the detail is amazing. the full-frame, the viewfinder, the look/fell everything about it is top-shelf.

it's just not ideal for the majority of my shooting, which is situational in nature. street work, in particular. yes, i love doing landscapes, and the Mark II is without peer in this regard - but - the 20d is no slouch either, and i have carefully reviewed my 20d shots and 1Ds Mark II shots, and at large size, 13"x19", the 20d is an outstanding performer.

bottomline - for my personal purposes, the 20d is better suited.

i highly recommend the 1Ds Mark II, and I stand by each and every observation i've made here in this forum on the camera.

Andy, wasn't the whole impetus for buying the dual G5 so that you could handle the large files from the 1ds mkii? Funny. You'll still be well served with the 20D and G5 combo...but I couldn't help but see the irony. And didn't you own the 20D for a month? Hard to keep up with you...

[Andy]

Andy, wasn't the whole impetus for buying the dual G5 so that you could handle the large files from the 1ds mkii? Funny. You'll still be well served with the 20D and G5 combo...but I couldn't help but see the irony. And didn't you own the 20D for a month? Hard to keep up with you...

i just want to give you guys somethin' to talk about!

[DavidTO]

...and don't even think about trading in your G5 for some windoze machine...

[patch29]

Andy, wasn't the whole impetus for buying the dual G5 so that you could handle the large files from the 1ds mkii? Funny. You'll still be well served with the 20D and G5 combo...but I couldn't help but see the irony. And didn't you own the 20D for a month? Hard to keep up with you...

I am lost too. I forgot that your sold the 20D. So now that you bought the Contax lenses are you keeping those to use with the 20D or not? :scratch

[Andy]

I am lost too. I forgot that your sold the 20D. So now that you bought the Contax lenses are you keeping those to use with the 20D or not? :scratch

possibly. i put the 18mm up for sale. i don't have the 21mm yet.. it's in transit :D

[windoze]

"windoze" - hey! I resemble that remark!!!!http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/Pissed.gif

...and don't even think about trading in your G5 for some windoze machine...

[DavidTO]

possibly. i put the 18mm up for sale. i don't have the 21mm yet.. it's in transit :D

hmmm...


made a trip to Tiffany's lately?

[patch29]

possibly. i put the 18mm up for sale. i don't have the 21mm yet.. it's in transit :D

which one is the 2.8? why not keeps the 18 w/ the 20D (I suppose my first question might answer this one)? keep us up to date, can you post your equipment list from the last year, it is starting to make me dizzy. Are you going to get new wide lenses with the 20D?

[fish]

Woo Hoo! Now he can use a 10-22 :D

[wxwax]

OK, I just lost the plot. I mean, I get it, but I don't get it. The size/weight thing was a known quantity, wasn't it?

[Andy]

OK, I just lost the plot. I mean, I get it, but I don't get it. The size/weight thing was a known quantity, wasn't it?

yep. and i stuck it out for a long time. i could get over it, but the 20d is just so darn good!

i just ordered the following, i'll have 'em wednesday:

20d body
10-22 ef-s (re-purchasing this lens)
24 f/1.4L
canon 1.4x teleconverter (re-purchasing)

[windoze]

sweet! now that you got the 10-22 ( same as me ) can I hang with you to see how to best use it????



yep. and i stuck it out for a long time. i could get over it, but the 20d is just so darn good!

i just ordered the following, i'll have 'em wednesday:

20d body
10-22 ef-s (re-purchasing this lens)
24 f/1.4L
canon 1.4x teleconverter (re-purchasing)

[lark]

I just sent a note re: distagon 18mm/21mm lenses

are they compatable with 20D?
Are you going to keep both of them?
the 20D takes such great pictures in it's own rite..another amazing camera.

I'm moving into a 24" printer and mostly larger prints... so the zeiss glass interests me a lot.

Thanks
Den

[Andy]

sweet! now that you got the 10-22 ( same as me ) can I hang with you to see how to best use it????

only if you teach me how you talk to the gorillas :deal

[Andy]

Woo Hoo! Now he can use a 10-22 :D

:nod a damn fine lens, as you've proven already fishy!

[ginger_55]

My gosh, I take a little nap and the world changes.

Good choice Andy, IMO. The right stuff for your needs, that comes first.
Not the latest stuff, or the biggest, the right stuff.

And my birds, gotta get my birds. Shakey, send em back!

g

[Andy]

My gosh, I take a little nap and the world changes.

Good choice Andy, IMO. The right stuff for your needs, that comes first.
Not the latest stuff, or the biggest, the right stuff.

And my birds, gotta get my birds. Shakey, send em back!

g

yup, ginger - how many times have we all said, "it's not the camera..."

heck, have you seen the bird shots harry gets with a nikon? :lol3

hope your birds come back :deal

[ginger_55]

Andy, what is your bag situation now? I carried my stuff almost piecemeal from the car to the house last night. I have to have a bigger more comfortable bag.

Are you keeping the farmer or going back to the other one, the one I was going to buy? I do not have a laptop. But I could use the space and the comfort anyway. I cannot carry my stuff individually out in the field. With my bag I have it worked out so that if I put the 300L on the camera, don't put those in the bag, I can get most other stuff in my current bag. That is not optimal.

Are you selling a bag? If so why?
If not, why not?

ginger

[Andy]

Andy, what is your bag situation now? I carried my stuff almost piecemeal from the car to the house last night. I have to have a bigger more comfortable bag.

Are you keeping the farmer or going back to the other one, the one I was going to buy? I do not have a laptop. But I could use the space and the comfort anyway. I cannot carry my stuff individually out in the field. With my bag I have it worked out so that if I put the 300L on the camera, don't put those in the bag, I can get most other stuff in my current bag. That is not optimal.

Are you selling a bag? If so why?
If not, why not?

ginger

ah good question ginger dear.

i may go back to the shrinkle, let me get to b&h this week, prolly tuesday. odds are that i'll be selling the farmer's double if the shrinkle fits my 15" powerbook....

can you hang on for a few days?

[ginger_55]

ah good question ginger dear.

i may go back to the shrinkle, let me get to b&h this week, prolly tuesday. odds are that i'll be selling the farmer's double if the shrinkle fits my 15" powerbook....

can you hang on for a few days?
Yes. Is the farmer's double as comfortable?

ginger

[Andy]

Yes. Is the farmer's double as comfortable?

ginger

very.

[ginger_55]

very.
good, PM me when you know, please,

ginger

[John Mueller]

I dont blame ya Andy.Im in sort of in the same boat.
My 1D M2 is one heck of a cam,fast,dead on and built like a tank.It didnt give me the reach Im looking for and was a tad on the soft side..I bought another 20D and I see a big difference.
So,I think,should I sell the 1D M2?:dunno
I have another trip planned for WV in a couple months and I want to give it a go for the wide.Guess Ill make up my mind after that.
On another note,my new 20D's view screen is filthy.Was like that out of the box.:rolleyes

[wxwax]

It didnt give me the reach Im looking for and was a tad on the soft side..I bought another 20D and I see a big difference.

Reach? :dunno

wrt soft, the 1DmkII images are made with the expectation that the shooter will sharpen them in PS or equivalent.

[John Mueller]

I understand that,but it takes less work with the 20D

[Andy]

I understand that,but it takes less work with the 20D

won't be a difference for me as i shoot only in raw ... fwiw you can tweak the parms in the 1d2 to equal what you get from 20d also.

[John Mueller]

won't be a difference for me as i shoot only in raw ... fwiw you can tweak the parms in the 1d2 to equal what you get from 20d also.
Hmmmm,sumtins not right.I have been shooting only raw since the Drebel days.I find the 20D a lot sharper before any post:dunno
Shot over 11,000 raw files with the 1D M2 and I have worked my butt off to sharpen the files.3 different raw convertors and several sharpening methods.

[pathfinder]

Hmmmm,sumtins not right.I have been shooting only raw since the Drebel days.I find the 20D a lot sharper before any post:dunno
Shot over 11,000 raw files with the 1D M2 and I have worked my butt off to sharpen the files.3 different raw convertors and several sharpening methods.


Sumthins not right indeed. The 20D is a great camera - but it is not the camera the 1DMkll is. 1DMkll files do need sharpening, but not much more than the 20Ds if the parameters are set right.

I shoot them both interchangeably - using the 1DMkll for when I need better focusing, better low light shots, etc Like Andy says - the 20D is a lot easier to carry all day on your shoulder.

[JohnR]

Hmmmm,sumtins not right.I have been shooting only raw since the Drebel days.I find the 20D a lot sharper before any post:dunno
Shot over 11,000 raw files with the 1D M2 and I have worked my butt off to sharpen the files.3 different raw convertors and several sharpening methods.

Get a real camera like the D2X :thumb
:clap

I'm wondering who got it..they sure are keeping quiet!

[John Mueller]

Get a real camera like the D2X :thumb
:clap

I'm wondering who got it..they sure are keeping quiet!
No thanks,I would rather use my Sony:D

[JohnR]

No thanks,I would rather use my Sony:D

Well then buy ME the D2X :rofl

[Andy]

I'm wondering who got it..they sure are keeping quiet!

all i can say is

2yso9bgde.

[Khaos]

I'm not sure if I should feel better about my 20D, because I truly respect your talent, or that I should worry that you suffer from multiple photgrapher personality disorder.:D

[gubbs]

andy, don't be so hasty, sounds to me like you need both and an IR Rebel!
Now that you've got someoneone to carry your bags what does it matter :dunno

[Andy]

andy, don't be so hasty, sounds to me like you need both and an IR Rebel!
Now that you've got someoneone to carry your bags what does it matter :dunno

workin on that :D

[Ric Grupe]

...Was the difference in size (physical dimensions and weight) a factor in returning to the 20D?

[Andy]

...Was the difference in size (physical dimensions and weight) a factor in returning to the 20D?

somewhat, though as waxy says, i knew what i was getting into....

[rutt]

So, I'm still left wondering what exactly it was about the 1dsmkii that you didn't like as much as the 20d? Why exactly did you feel uncomfortable with it? Too big and heavy? Too conspicious? Too expensive? Wanted to reclaim some working capital? Hard to get used to the controls? Giant images made the workflow awkward?

Like PF, I have both 1Dmkii and 20D. I find myself always reaching for the 1Dmkii. I like the larger sensor, speed, fosusing, and exposure systems much better than the 20D's. Yes, I really wish it was smaller and lighter. But I hauled the damn thing up more than one mountain in Utah instead of bringing the 20D and I'm glad I did. So I'm a satisfied customer.

So, I'm really still curious. Maybe it's just fun for Andy to buy and sell cameras and feel something new in his hands. Sort of the opposite of Cartier-Bresson who only changed once during the most creative years of his career.

[wxwax]

I hate to speak for Andy... but I will. :evil

Everything Andy says comes back to one thing: street shooting. He walks with his camera in hand, ready to make pictures on short notice. For this, a light, relatively inconspicuous camera with a wide angle, unobtrusive and lightweight lens is the perfect tool. If the same camera is good enough to also handle landscapes, portraits and occasional studio work, then it's the perfect tool. The 1DsmkII is relatively cumbersome and draws attention to itself, compared to the 20D.

I understand Andy's decision, given the style of shooting that he engages in most.

[Andy]

So, I'm still left wondering what exactly it was about the 1dsmkii that you didn't like as much as the 20d? Why exactly did you feel uncomfortable with it? Too big and heavy? Too conspicious? Too expensive? Wanted to reclaim some working capital? Hard to get used to the controls? Giant images made the workflow awkward?

Like PF, I have both 1Dmkii and 20D. I find myself always reaching for the 1Dmkii. I like the larger sensor, speed, fosusing, and exposure systems much better than the 20D's. Yes, I really wish it was smaller and lighter. But I hauled the damn thing up more than one mountain in Utah instead of bringing the 20D and I'm glad I did. So I'm a satisfied customer.

So, I'm really still curious. Maybe it's just fun for Andy to buy and sell cameras and feel something new in his hands. Sort of the opposite of Cartier-Bresson who only changed once during the most creative years of his career.

rutt, as i have mentioned many times, i do not regret for one second buying the 1Ds Mark II. i'm a happy satisfied customer. i knew all about the size, weight, ergos, and file sizes before i bought it. so why did i switch? the 20d is *that* good. for my shooting needs, the 20d is a far better choice. yes, the size is better for me. so's the weight. ergos? the 1Ds Mark II has just fine ergos. working capital? heck, according to charles i have money to burn, so that's not it. honestly , for my street, situational work, the 20d is better suited. i've previously stated that if i did the majority of my work in 'podded landscapes, and in-studio, i'd have kept the 1Ds Mark II. anyhow, i'm really happy with the 20d and my new 24L. the one thing i *have* kept constant, john, is my focal range

now, just wait - canon in one year's time will come out with a ff sensor in the 20d body - hooboy i'll be all over that like white on rice :lol3

[patch29]

now, just wait - canon in one year's time will come out with a ff sensor in the 20d body - hooboy i'll be all over that like white on rice :lol3

It will give Canon an interesting dilemma, even if it is not a FF, what to call the next 20D, a 30D. There is already enough confusion out there with the ID of DSLRs, what will they give us, 30D seems way to close to D30 for me, skip straight ahead to a 40D? :ear :scratch :dunno :rofl

[Andy]

It will give Canon an interesting dilemma, even if it is not a FF, what to call the next 20D, a 30D. There is already enough confusion out there with the ID of DSLRs, what will they give us, 30D seems way to close to D30 for me, skip straight ahead to a 40D? :ear :scratch :dunno :rofl

i don't give a horse's patoot - just call it *mine* :lol3

[patch29]

i don't give a horse's patoot - just call it *mine* :lol3

20D mk andy :deal

[rutt]

OK, I guess I'm never really going to get it, but that doesn't really matter. How about this question for the master. Andy, I'm trying to improve me street shooting. I have both 1Dmkii and 20D, but never really use my 20D (my son uses it a lot, though, so it isn't gathering dust.) I have a 16-40 f2.8L, so I can get pretty wide with my 20D. Should I be trying that more?

[Andy]

OK, I guess I'm never really going to get it, but that doesn't really matter. How about this question for the master. Andy, I'm trying to improve me street shooting. I have both 1Dmkii and 20D, but never really use my 20D (my son uses it a lot, though, so it isn't gathering dust.) I have a 16-40 f2.8L, so I can get pretty wide with my 20D. Should I be trying that more?

the camera doesn't really matter imo. i saw a guy on friday street shooting with a rolleiflex tlr... there's alot to be said for "f/8 and be there," right? the 20d is a bit more blendy than the 1D Mk 2 you have... 90% of my street work in the past year was done with the 16-35L and a 10d or 20d. but mostly, it's just preference, john - if you are comfy with the bigger body, then carry it :) and yeah, put that 16-35 onboard, or even better yet, buy the 35L - that's 45mm on the 1Dmk2, a great FL for street work.

all this said, take that 20d out for a week, and see if your missing anything. image quality-wise, i don't think you'll see a difference.

cheers

[rutt]

now, just wait - canon in one year's time will come out with a ff sensor in the 20d body - hooboy i'll be all over that like white on rice :lol3
Wouldn't that be sweet? I've had my ears open and from what I can tell here is what's on the jungle drums for Canon in the next product cycle or so.

Unfied high end. A fast full frame camera in the EOS1 sized body. This will replace both 1d and 1ds lines. Probably improved resolution over the 1Dsmkii and faster even than the 1Dmkii. Other goals for this project are improved dynamic range, low light performance, and automatic dust control (ala Oly?)
At least keep up with Nikon in the low and middle range. I guess that means a 10mp+ sensor for the X0D cameras in the fall or next spring. It probably depends on Nikon. Sensor size will stay the same to accomadate those special lenses.
I've heard some speculation about a EOS 3 based pro camera. Maybe this would be the place for a full frame sensor in a smaller package. I don't think there is as much real info behind this speculation as the first two.
In the longer term, it's a certainty that there will be a full frame sensor on a smaller body. But Canon will do this when it suites their own marketing.

[rutt]

the camera doesn't really matter imo. i saw a guy on friday street shooting with a rolleiflex tlr... there's alot to be said for "f/8 and be there," right? the 20d is a bit more blendy than the 1D Mk 2 you have...
cheers
blendy? Is this something about image quality or something about how well I'll blend into the landscape with a smaller camera? Or something else?

[wxwax]

20D mk andy :deal

:lol3

[wxwax]

blendy? Is this something about image quality or something about how well I'll blend into the landscape with a smaller camera? Or something else?
I suspect that as you do more street shooting involving people, you'll gain a new appreciation for what Andy's talking about. :evil

[Andy]

blendy? Is this something about image quality or something about how well I'll blend into the landscape with a smaller camera? Or something else?

blendy as in less "in yer face." not that it's a huge difference, it just feels better to me. certainly i got some really cool street shots done with my 1Ds Mark II....

i don't aim for "sneaky" though. i just like to be part of the scene without being obvious.

[rutt]

blendy as in less "in yer face." not that it's a huge difference, it just feels better to me. certainly i got some really cool street shots done with my 1Ds Mark II....

i don't aim for "sneaky" though. i just like to be part of the scene without being obvious.
Sneaky sounds good to me. That Roliflex might have been good that way. My little Pentax Option X is pretty sneaky, but not fast enough to really work for this purpose.

I like to remember that HCB took all those great street shots with a completely manual film camera that didn't even have lever wind. He must have been fast with that thing. I'd love to have seen him use it.

[wxwax]

Sneaky sounds good to me. That Roliflex might have been good that way. My little Pentax Option X is pretty sneaky, but not fast enough to really work for this purpose.

I like to remember that HCB took all those great street shots with a completely manual film camera that didn't even have lever wind. He must have been fast with that thing. I'd love to have seen him use it.
He was sneaky, IIRC. He'd hide his camera until the last second, changing the settings by feel, then whip out the camera at the 'decisive moment.'

[rutt]

He was sneaky, IIRC. He'd hide his camera until the last second, changing the settings by feel, then whip out the camera at the 'decisive moment.'
Hard to do that with a 1Dx Mark II or even 20D, eh? I wonder what the Los Altos police would have done with him? French and all...

[wxwax]

Hard to do that with a 1Dx Mark II or even 20D, eh? I wonder what the Los Altos police would have done with him? French and all...
:rofl :rofl :rofl

[patch29]

:lol3

I should have named it the

20D mk $andy$

and given it some bling-bling. :rofl

[Andy]

I should have named it the

20D mk $andy$

and given it some bling-bling. :rofl

yes. because according to some, it would seem that i've got money to burn! :lol3

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/16540565-L.gif

[patch29]

yes. because according to some, it would seem that i've got money to burn! :lol3


:wave I've got a fire place for rent. :deal :rofl

[cmr164]

yes. because according to some, it would seem that i've got money to burn! :lol3

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/16540565-L.gif
*some* *SOME* ???? :rofl:roflAndy you are a riot!

On a serious note. What settings on a 1DmkII does one tweak to get the same results as a 20D? Is it just the case that the 20D is set with higher sharpening to please consumers? Secondly, I am considering picking up a lightweight canon dslr with a 1.6 or 1.5 sensor to leave semi-permanently attached to the 500 f/4L IS. Will I be satisfied with the aiservo focus speed of the 20D or the 350xt?

[wxwax]

*some* *SOME* ???? :rofl:roflAndy you are a riot!

On a serious note. What settings on a 1DmkII does one tweak to get the same results as a 20D? Is it just the case that the 20D is set with higher sharpening to please consumers? Secondly, I am considering picking up a lightweight canon dslr with a 1.6 or 1.5 sensor to leave semi-permanently attached to the 500 f/4L IS. Will I be satisfied with the aiservo focus speed of the 20D or the 350xt?

:cool





http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/16540565-L.gif


:rofl

[cmr164]

:cool

:rofl
Yeah yeah.... I know but my choice will be cast in stone. I will not have the opportunity to redo it. :cry

[Andy]

*some* *SOME* ???? :rofl:roflAndy you are a riot!

On a serious note. What settings on a 1DmkII does one tweak to get the same results as a 20D? Is it just the case that the 20D is set with higher sharpening to please consumers? Secondly, I am considering picking up a lightweight canon dslr with a 1.6 or 1.5 sensor to leave semi-permanently attached to the 500 f/4L IS. Will I be satisfied with the aiservo focus speed of the 20D or the 350xt?

chas the 20d has many parm settings. you can set color, contrast, sharpening from -2 to +2. you can set adobe rgb or srgb. the 1dmk 2 has similar variables, yes? i had the 1ds mark 2 set to produce jpgs along with my raws that looked just like those that came from my 20d.

the 20d also has a bw mode, giving a bw with variable sharpness, contrast, and even filtering (yellow, blue, red, sepia) along with the full color raw file.

the 20d has excellent ai servo capabilities. take a look in the sports forum, will ya?

nobody on dgrin's posted any 350xt shots, you can be the first :deal

[Harryb]

the 20d also has a bw mode, giving a bw with variable sharpness, contrast, and even filtering (yellow, blue, red, sepia) along with the full color raw file.


Wow a camera that shoot in B&W. What will they think of next? :smile6

[wxwax]

Wow a camera that shoot in B&W. What will they think of next? :smile6
It's the latest thing, tres chic.

[Andy]

It's the latest thing, tres chic.

sid - i'm trying to get k&s to add a 14L to my rental list for yosemite, in addition to the 500 prime i've already reserved. *that* 14mmL lens, i'd try out before i bought it. i think canon's sold about 7, worldwide :lol3

[wxwax]

sid - i'm trying to get k&s to add a 14L to my rental list for yosemite, in addition to the 500 prime i've already reserved. *that* 14mmL lens, i'd try out before i bought it. i think canon's sold about 7, worldwide :lol3
Cool. And great idea about renting in SF. I bought me a used 15mm fisheye for fun in the woods.

[rutt]

Will I be satisfied with the aiservo focus speed of the 20D or the 350xt?
No. I know you and I know both the 20D and the 1Dmkii. 20D is great, but not compared to the 1Dmkii in this particular respect. Generally, 20D AF is pretty crude compared to 1Dmkii. The AF point selection algorithm is very simple, just choose the closest in-focus point. People who normally use this camera often just set it up for center AF. As you know I have my 1Dmkii set up so the WB button sets to center AF, but normally use the full blown 45 point thing which works about 70% of the time.

20D is great. But I always reach for my 1Dmkii, even when it seems like a really dumb choice (back country skiing).

This choice of camera equipment is a lot like the choice of sports equipment. There is no pair of skis that's going to make me ski like Bodie Miller. And no pair of skis that will cripple him to the point where he skis like me. But a new pair of skis can be really fun. And comparing different skis can also be a blast. In the end, in order to be the best skier I can be, I have to be comfortable with my skis, they have to do what I expect them to do. It seems like Andy is just more comfortable with the 20D than the 1Dsmkii. I am going to try my 20D more for street shooting. "Blendy" is good. But I'll miss a lot of things about the 1Dmkii.