Color or Black and White

[cletus]

I've put a couple shots up in Pathfinder's We need more Black and White (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=615) thread, but I've got a couple shots that I'm not sure if they would work better in color or black and white. Soooo, I thought I'd start a new thread to put up images in both color and black and white to get other people's opinions on what works for a particular image.

Here goes:
http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2636246-M.jpg

or

http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2636062-M.jpg



http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2631364-M.jpg

or

http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2636248-M.jpg

[pathfinder]

I've put a couple shots up in Pathfinder's We need more Black and White (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=615) thread, but I've got a couple shots that I'm not sure if they would work better in color or black and white. Soooo, I thought I'd start a new thread to put up images in both color and black and white to get other people's opinions on what works for a particular image.
Cletus - I prefer the abandoned house in B&W as there is no color there anyway and B&W gives a more intriguing mysterious feeling - But you might reshoot the house when there are no shadows on the house itself - I find the shadows on the house distracting.

The grape vines on the fence row I prefer in color because of the contrast between the blue of the river and the green of the fence posts - Here color seems to play a significant role - cooling calming quieting - and I find this missing in the B&W version. YMMV of course.http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/lickout.gif

Nice idea for a thread tho - Great idea .... I also find that I try many of my pictures both ways AC/DC so to speak B&W vs RGB http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/eek7.gif

[Shakey]

After I played with the images themselves in my photo software I liked both in B&W over color.

I am not sure but it looked like just for demonstration purpose Cletus used just a desaturate or grey scale convert.
I find using just that is not enough for me to render a decision. I need to go through the full conversion.

It must be a creative thought flaw in my brain, (one of many brain flaws) because I cant envision it, so I have to build it.

Funny I never have a problem envisioning having a cold beer. Go figure?



Cheers,
Tim

[cletus]

After I played with the images themselves in my photo software I liked both in B&W over color.

I am not sure but it looked like just for demonstration purpose Cletus used just a desaturate or grey scale convert.
I find using just that is not enough for me to render a decision. I need to go through the full conversion.


Tim,

I used zero-zero's two adjustment layer b&w conversion method. Maybe I just didn't do a very good job! Feel free to post your conversions up here if you like them better. I'd love to see what you did differently.

-Eric

[Shakey]

Tim,

I used zero-zero's two adjustment layer b&w conversion method. Maybe I just didn't do a very good job! Feel free to post your conversions up here if you like them better. I'd love to see what you did differently.

-EricI did not mean to be critical there I am sorry if I did or I put my foot in my mouth.
However when I downloaded your color and your black and whites I found that just grey scaling your color was not much different (in my eyes)than your black and white result so I worked on them myself. Both copies I did not save however I did go back and recreate what I did in the first place , on the house.



http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2636062-M.jpghttp://shakey.smugmug.com/photos/2637506-M.jpg

Yours to the left mine to the right. With a slight tone in this ,which can be adjusted . I can give it other tones without any detail change.
Notice the contrasts between shadow and light also I feel there is more detail in what I did.

Again this is only what my eye sees as better and I am old and shortsighted:D


Tim

[cletus]

Tim,

That looks really good. That's the kind of stuff I was hoping for when I started this thread!

-Eric

[Shakey]

I convert photos constantly,in fact I spend way to much time in my photo editing software just doing minor tweaks .
Great thread I like these threads because I learn so much.

I am not sure which I like better either in these two, I want to return an reshoot the subject as well.


http://shakey.smugmug.com/photos/2637951-M.jpg

http://shakey.smugmug.com/photos/2637952-M.jpg

I have mixed feelings on this shot B&W vrs Color.


Tim

[lynnma]

I convert photos constantly,in fact I spend way to much time in my photo editing software just doing minor tweaks .
Great thread I like these threads because I learn so much.

I am not sure which I like better either in these two, I want to return an reshoot the subject as well.


http://shakey.smugmug.com/photos/2637951-M.jpg

http://shakey.smugmug.com/photos/2637952-M.jpg

I have mixed feelings on this shot B&W vrs Color.


TimHi Tim.. to me both these shots are great. Lots of drama in the black and white and great warmth in the color. I think it would depend on the mood as to which one appealed at the time. I love both.:D
lynn

[pathfinder]

Hi Tim.. to me both these shots are great. Lots of drama in the black and white and great warmth in the color. I think it would depend on the mood as to which one appealed at the time. I love both.:D
lynn
I like the B&W better than the color because the warmth of the color, to me, clashes with the snow on the ground - The B&W cooler quality seems more appropriate with the snow YMMV of course

[wxwax]

Shakes, I think the B&W is streets ahead of the color. More contrast, sharper, the door and the windows in the center really draw-in the eye... a totally different and more effective image.

What method are you using for converting color to B&W?

[Shakey]

Shakes, I think the B&W is streets ahead of the color. More contrast, sharper, the door and the windows in the center really draw-in the eye... a totally different and more effective image.

What method are you using for converting color to B&W?Well, it is kind of my own since you all seem to use photostop and I use a corel program.
But my biggest breakthrough was just recently when Andy of Moonriver fame
posted his Grand Central Station light pictures. He posted a super color and then a fantastic Black and White of the same shot. I downloaded his 2 shots I then converted the color and started converting to match his black and white.(I used his pictures only for this ,I then deleted them )
He really put some nice tones in his conversion.
I used this with some links to other sites on B&W conversions like this one http://www.photo-i.co.uk/index.html (http://www.photo-i.co.uk/index.html)I then fiddle with my photo editing to some similar degree.

For instance, I used to desaturate for B&W and I also used to use just grey scale. Now I convert to grey scale (8bit) then I convert that to RGB color ( 24 bit).
The picture is still Black and White but I have more options for enhancing.
I then can use my tone adjusters for Black point, mid point and White point.
Pressing on my control key gives me a look at original for comparison.
Here I can tweek shadow ,overexposure lighten or darken skies etc...
I then sharpen just a little .

If I like it I keep it then I go to color balance and I adjust sliders to achieve the tone/tint I want for the photo.(this I found by trying to emulate Andy’s shot.) I constantly look at B&W that are contest winners or editor choices and try to see how they achieved this or that.


Some shots I take are in B&W originally so I can see how off GS and DS are from true? B&W.

I dunno, I am just experimenting improvising and trying to learn. I have only been doing this (digital photography)for 2 months now so consider my methods with a heavy grain of caution hehe.


Cheers ,
Tim

[ian408]

I did not mean to be critical there I am sorry if I did or I put my foot in my mouth.
However when I downloaded your color and your black and whites I found that just grey scaling your color was not much different (in my eyes)than your black and white result so I worked on them myself. Both copies I did not save however I did go back and recreate what I did in the first place , on the house.



http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2636062-M.jpghttp://shakey.smugmug.com/photos/2637506-M.jpg

Yours to the left mine to the right. With a slight tone in this ,which can be adjusted . I can give it other tones without any detail change.
Notice the contrasts between shadow and light also I feel there is more detail in what I did.

Again this is only what my eye sees as better and I am old and shortsighted:D


Tim
Shakes,

While demonstrating the change in contrast, you've come upon an interesting
derivation of the original. I think it looks pretty cool.

Ian

[fish]

b&w (or is that b m w?)

[ian408]

b&w (or is that b m w?)
Or color?

http://ian408.smugmug.com/photos/965854-M.jpg

[cletus]

b&w (or is that b m w?) Or color?
b m w ... sorry. I mean b and w

[zero-zero]

Tim,

I used zero-zero's two adjustment layer b&w conversion method. Maybe I just didn't do a very good job! Feel free to post your conversions up here if you like them better. I'd love to see what you did differently.

-Eric
That technique is just the beginning of the game, to get a greyscale image that's better than a simple desaturate. Once you're there, the fun begins.

As a rule of thumb, I find most conversions to B&W benefit from a healthy kick in contrast to begin with.

[cletus]

Here's another one:
http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2682875-M.jpg

or
http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2682876-M.jpg

[Shakey]

Here's another one:
http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2682875-M.jpg

or
http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2682876-M.jpgBlack and white is my choice here, I hope you dont mind Cletus I am a compulive converter it seems.


I cropped it as well, now I'm stepping on wxwaxy's toes too.:wxwax



Tim

[cletus]

Black and white is my choice here, I hope you dont mind Cletus I am a compulive converter it seems.

I cropped it as well, now I'm stepping on wxwaxy's toes too.:wxwax

Tim
I don't mind at all. I really need to work on my B&W conversions!

[jimf]

http://ab0wa.smugmug.com/photos/2636062-M.jpghttp://shakey.smugmug.com/photos/2637506-M.jpg

Yours to the left mine to the right. With a slight tone in this ,which can be adjusted . I can give it other tones without any detail change.
Notice the contrasts between shadow and light also I feel there is more detail in what I did.

Again this is only what my eye sees as better and I am old and shortsighted:D


I agree; his seems softer while yours pops out. I haven't done any color->BW conversions recently (not since I had to write my own software to do it :-), but I'm likely to do some soon since I'm shooting a wedding in 2 weeks. What did you use to convert? What tone did you introduce?

[Shakey]

Jim its hard for me to explain since I use Corel and not Adobe.
But from what I read it is similar to using the curves in Monochrome?
It involves adjusting black mid and white points some brightness ,contrast and intensity. Then adjusting color balance for a desired tone. That is the shortened version.
Tim