Canon 350D / Rebel XT Review is up.

[dugmar]

Forgive me if this is a repost.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05021704canon_eos350d.asp

Doug

[Michiel de Brieder]

it's a preview :D Looks like a fine camera! Too bad it doesn't have the same batteries as the 20D, else it would make a fine backup.. Oh well, for now my EOS 5 and some rolls of film will have to do for backup :rofl

[DoctorIt]

why oh why have they changed the battery??!!? :dunno

D30, D60, 10D, 300D, 20D, all used BP-511's... why???

[marlinspike]

why oh why have they changed the battery??!!? :dunno

D30, D60, 10D, 300D, 20D, all used BP-511's... why???
To make it small and light they had to use a small and light battery....which also has half the capacity. IMHO the 350D is a girls cam: small, light, the silver is glittery, space between the grip and the lens mount is narrow for think fingers.

[Red Bull]

I like how it has a lot more features added, but it just looks too small and girly. I was saying how I was going to wait for the new Rebel to come out before deciding on getthing that or that 20D, but after seeing it I'm going with the 20D. I'm sure it will be a great camera, but I don't like the size of it. The camera looks too short (length-wise) for its height.

[fish]

I like how it has a lot more features added, but it just looks too small and girly.

Why you sexist mofo. :lynn Be glad I'm getting to you before lynnma. :hang



It's an entry-level dSLR. Obviously a different sensor than the 20D, since it has fewer pixels (8.0 vs 8.2). It needs to be small, light, and work with small/light EF-S lenses if they want to capture n00bs.

[marlinspike]

Why you sexist mofo. :lynn Be glad I'm getting to you before lynnma. :hang

Fish, you a girl?
Richard

[dkapp]

Fish, you a girl?
Richard
:nod

[marlinspike]

Oh. I always had Fish, with the shark pic and all picked for a...well nevermind.
Richard

[fish]

Fish, you a girl?
Richard

Yeah...you wanna make something of it?

[marlinspike]

Yeah...you wanna make something of it? :uhoh No, no not at all :thwak
. l. l
. Fish. Me [ok, I've tried to edit this like 5 times and no dice, but you get the picture]
:cry:cry:cry:cry
:bow
Richard

[wxwax]

To make it small and light they had to use a small and light battery....which also has half the capacity. IMHO the 350D is a girls cam: small, light, the silver is glittery, space between the grip and the lens mount is narrow for think fingers.
:scratch Default color is black.

[Seymore]

Yeah...you wanna make something of it?Well, if he don't... I will... :bash

Fish sticks anyone? :hotfood

Sorry... I couldn't help myself! (o:|

:D

[gus]

Fish & i are dating as soon as i get to CA in may.. whether she likes it or not.


You keep trimmin' that nose hair now littl' darlin'....daddys on his way.

[gus]

I guess its normal for a big forum dummy spit when a 'NEW' model arrives. :1drink

[Nee7x7]

...and this one has me salivating and chomping at the bit! :clap Looks like maybe it's gonna be upstaging the Nikon D70 big time! 8 megapixels, lotsa upgrades from the 300D making it enough like the 20D for potential dslr newbies like me to get excited about, but lightweight (and smaller, too, for my little girlie hands, LOL!).

I think I'm love...with the price, the size, the features...the whole shooting shebang! As William Hung says...She bangs, she bangs...and she's got a lot of bang for the bucks, IMHO! I may have to hold out for this one (I've been wanting the 20D, but the issues for me were the price and size and weight -kinda big and heavy for little ole me!) So finally...Canon comes up with a dslr for us gals! Whoohoo!!! I'm stoked! I think I'll call mine Suzie ;) ~Nee :rofl

btw, any news of when it will be available? I read and reread the review looking for an expected release date, and didn't see anything (or maybe I just missed it). Hope it's soon...very soon!!! :rolleyes

[gus]

Heres some photos for you Nee



http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eosdigital2/eosdigital2_sample-e.html

No high iso's there though.



WHAT I NEED TO KNOW GUYS....this new rebel goes to 1600 iso & the D20 goes to 3200. Where am i ever going to need that 3200 ?

I can appreciate what it is but man its not something i would use that much.



.

[fish]

Fish sticks anyone? :hotfood


I can't tell if that's steam or stink rising from that plate. :rofl

Is your last name "Butts"?


Because I recall that classic book, "Under the Stadium Bleachers", by Seymore Butts.

[GerryDavid]

WHAT I NEED TO KNOW GUYS....this new rebel goes to 1600 iso & the D20 goes to 3200. Where am i ever going to need that 3200 ?

I can appreciate what it is but man its not something i would use that much.

.
You would use the 3200iso if you were in a low light situation and you needed a faster shutter speed to prevent blur. Maybe even indoor sports. You should be able to get this on the 350d with a firmware hack once its created for this. same for the 50iso.

[gus]

You would use the 3200iso if you were in a low light situation and you needed a faster shutter speed to prevent blur. Maybe even indoor sports. You should be able to get this on the 350d with a firmware hack once its created for this. same for the 50iso.
This is the thing mate...we have nothing 'inside' here. Everything happens out side in the day time...ceptin' for boxing.

Bout the only time i shoot like that is on the street where i have far slower movement.

Oh Jesus...im getting scared here that andy is gonna walk in like a drunk father any second & belt me like a red headed step child for talkin' instead of buyin'.

[fish]

WHAT I NEED TO KNOW GUYS....this new rebel goes to 1600 iso & the D20 goes to 3200. Where am i ever going to need that 3200 ?
I haven't used 3200 yet. No need. 1600 with fast glass is really all you need. 3200 is probably really noisy.

[patch29]

btw, any news of when it will be available? I read and reread the review looking for an expected release date, and didn't see anything (or maybe I just missed it). Hope it's soon...very soon!!! :rolleyes


On this page (http://www.pma-show.com/review/canon/003_EOS_digital_rebel_xt.html) they are stating around March 2005, nothing more specific than that.

[wxwax]

Heres some photos for you Nee



http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eosdigital2/eosdigital2_sample-e.html

No high iso's there though.



WHAT I NEED TO KNOW GUYS....this new rebel goes to 1600 iso & the D20 goes to 3200. Where am i ever going to need that 3200 ?

I can appreciate what it is but man its not something i would use that much.



.


Well, you keep talking about shooting surfing in relatively low light, possibly with a relatively slow lens. If you do all of the above, the only way you'll get the shutter speed you need is with a high ISO.

[DoctorIt]

Yo gus - I think the idea that the 20D has 3200 is basically, not that you'd use the 3200 very much, but at ISO1600 on the 20D you'll have much less noise than on the Rebel at 1600. So if you can envision using 1600 for the speed, the 20D will actually let you pull if off. with the rebel, you'll need a noise removing software.

[Michiel de Brieder]

Used it

Abused it

Loved it :D

But if the Rebel XT can match the ISO 1600 of the 20D then it'll be very good! Just underexpose a full stop and push it in post for the rare occasions that you need the higher ISO....

[wxwax]

Used it

Abused it

Loved it :D

But if the Rebel XT can match the ISO 1600 of the 20D then it'll be very good! Just underexpose a full stop and push it in post for the rare occasions that you need the higher ISO....

I've found that you cannot push the high ISO's. They turn ugly. My experience is that if you use a high ISO, you better get the exposure exactly right in camera.

That's what I've discovered shooting in RAW at ISO 1000 and higher.

[Michiel de Brieder]

The right exposure on the spot is always best, but there are cases...
That aside, I haven't been bothered much by banding on my 20D....

[wxwax]

The right exposure on the spot is always best, but there are cases...
That aside, I haven't been bothered much by banding on my 20D....
No, not banding. I saw that on the 1D, but not on the mkII. I just mean plain old noise. If I dare to play with the Exposure slider on a high ISO RAW pic, I can't go very far before ugly noise intrudes. I also notice that there's even less latitude with Contrast in a high ISO shot - they blow-out far more readily.

All of which I take to mean that if you use high ISO, the exposure has to be spot-on in the camera, as you can't do much fixing in post. Which is a bummer, since I am technically weak at making perfect exposures. It's one of the many things that I admire about Andy's work - he understands how to get it right in the camera. :bluduh

[Michiel de Brieder]

You're right about noise... Still, with noise reduction one is able to get some fine looking shots, even pushed. I'm also very enthusiastic about high ISO B/W because it is way more forgiving in the aspect of noise.. I'm very appreciative of the high ISO performance on B/W shots when I compare it to ISO 1600 film pushed to 3200 or 6400, because it just looks d@rn good and you have a lot of latitude in RAW to play around with.. Underexposing 1 stop doesn't mean you'll have to push it back a full stop :wink
And Andy... well.... the guy's just GOOD :nod

[wxwax]

Yeah, I agree completely about B&W. that's one place where you don't mind the noise. It adds character!

I have Noise Ninja, but I find myself reluctant to use it because it also softens the shot.

[Seymore]

I can't tell if that's steam or stink rising from that plate. :rofl

Is your last name "Butts"?


Because I recall that classic book, "Under the Stadium Bleachers", by Seymore Butts."steam or stink"... That's all in what you want it to be. :dunno Ask the chef...

Nope... Not "Butts", but I have "Seen More"! :thumb (than I care to mention...)
So, you read the book? Care to EMail me your PDF copy? :D

[luckyrwe]

I hope the 350D/XT does not have a tiny viewfinder like the Rebel does.

[Nee7x7]

...But I'm hoping for a lot of things before I plunk down my money! First and foremost, picture quality. Next, build quality and reliability (none of those error 99's, please!). Third, ease of use (as in a nice bright viewfinder, easy to use controls, etc). Fourth, battery life (will the new, smaller battery have enough lasting power?). Hopefully, the extra battery grip is not going to be a "must have" if you want to shoot for very long, but I've always kept an extra battery on hand anyhow, so it would be no biggie to buy an extra one for this cam, too.

So as far as it goes, all the features seem quite appealing (I'm ok with only 3fps...I don't really shoot sports or fast action stuff anyhow). I'm also ok with a top ISO of 1600. At ISO 3200 the 20D pics aren't really that much to write home about and my 828 only goes to ISO 800, so I doubt I'll miss having it.

The low price is very nice...but actually, that's my biggest worry! You usually get what you pay for, so is this new cam a real winner...or just an expensive piece of cheap plastic junk? I'm staying hopeful...the digicam price wars seem to be working to our benefit, and Canon is the leader in that regard so far!

I just hate having to wait another month to see how this one stacks up to the competition...this waiting game is keeping my nails short and my nerves on end! :huh :hang :uhoh

Sheesh! I'm ready to finally get something I can put my hands on! :eat

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

Cheers!
~Nee :smooch

[gus]

I hope the 350D/XT does not have a tiny viewfinder like the Rebel does.Thats got to be a viewable LCD screen there for sure...maybe.


http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eosdigital2/






.

[marlinspike]

I hope the 350D/XT does not have a tiny viewfinder like the Rebel does.
I hate to break it to you, but tinnier. It has a .8x magnification instead of the 300D's .88x.
Richard

[Michiel de Brieder]

At ISO 3200 the 20D pics aren't really that much to write home about and my 828 only goes to ISO 800, so I doubt I'll miss having it.

The low price is very nice...but actually, that's my biggest worry! You usually get what you pay for, so is this new cam a real winner...or just an expensive piece of cheap plastic junk? I'm staying hopeful...the digicam price wars seem to be working to our benefit, and Canon is the leader in that regard so far! Some comments on the above statements.. Something you'll have to keep in mind is the more shallow DOF at a given aperture of a DSLR vs an F-series camera.. F/8 on the Sony ain't no F/8 on the XT/20D :D So you might want more DOF in a given situation... No tripod and still in need of high shutter speed?? Then you WILL need to push the ISO... Depending on the lighting available it might even get to ISO 1600, but that's no biggie, ISO 1600 is very usable on the 20D, I'm crossing my fingers for you that the XT will be comparable! If you get the chance to play with good high ISO performance.. we-ellll it's an addiction :rofl (at least it was to me)
The low price.. that will be my second point to explain. For Canon there are 2 sources to create chunks of money:
1. the Lenses
2. the cameras
The first one and most important are lenses!! If you buy 1 camera body and you like the lens setup (if you're smart you'll base your choice on lens setup) of the manufacturer than the manufacturer can be almost sure of a lot of extra investment on your part :D Ask all the DSLR owners here about the phenomenon Lens-lust :lust Plus they know that they make good gear (and that includes EVERY manufacturer, Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Pentax...) and you are likely to upgrade the camera body in a couple of years. So they can make money twice/thrice/multiple times during your photography career/hobby! So a cheap DSLR to have people 'get into the system' will have to be really good to bind the customer to the manufacturer..
WOW, I'll now stop my ramble :D

[Nee7x7]

I hate to break it to you, but tinnier. It has a .8x magnification instead of the 300D's .88x.
Richard

It's still got more mag than the Nikon D70 (0.75x ), which has been on my list of potential buys...and may still be on my list depending on how the 350D pans out.

We'll see...
~Nee

[Nee7x7]

(snip) Some comments on the above statements.. The low price.. So a cheap DSLR to have people 'get into the system' will have to be really good to bind the customer to the manufacturer..
WOW, I'll now stop my ramble :D (snip)

Mais...Je ne sais quoi (pardon my poor high school French from 30+ years ago, LOL!). I'm actually looking at the fact that this camera would get me "into the system" at a fairly cheap price to begin with (taking Lens Lust into consideration, LOL!). I've yet to hear the pros and cons of the Canon vs. Nikon lens and accessory systems. Would love to find out what others have to say in that regard!

It seems that Canon has more lenses, but are they better lenses or are they equal to or of less quality than Nikon's? The fact that Canon keeps pumping out new mass produced cameras and gear is actually a bit worrisome. You know what they say about slow and steady winning the race. It may be that Nikon is taking a quality over quantity approach. Or maybe they've just given up the race? Hard to say which...but perhaps time will tell. ~Nee

[Michiel de Brieder]

Mais...Je ne sais quoi (pardon my poor high school French from 30+ years ago, LOL!). I'm actually looking at the fact that this camera would get me "into the system" at a fairly cheap price to begin with (taking Lens Lust into consideration, LOL!). I've yet to hear the pros and cons of the Canon vs. Nikon lens and accessory systems. Would love to find out what others have to say in that regard!

It seems that Canon has more lenses, but are they better lenses or are they equal to or of less quality than Nikon's? The fact that Canon keeps pumping out new mass produced cameras and gear is actually a bit worrisome. You know what they say about slow and steady winning the race. It may be that Nikon is taking a quality over quantity approach. Or maybe they've just given up the race? Hard to say which...but perhaps time will tell. ~Nee Ah oui, mais une forum est pour l'education des participants, alors, :D my highschool french is but 7 years away :wink My reason for getting into Canon was both the lens setup (tilt and shift lenses, L lenses) and cameras (full frame cameras, droolllll)
Both Nikon and Canon have excellent lenses, for me the choice was also influenced by the fact that I could get a very good deal on a used D30! You can't miss with either system, I think that someone starting off in the DSLR world can nicely benefit from the cheap body Canon offers. On the other hand, you already seem very enthusiastic and interested, so the investment in the body will not hang upon a a couple of 100 $$
Hope I've added to the confusion :lol

[Nee7x7]

(snip) My reason for getting into Canon was both the lens setup (tilt and shift lenses, L lenses) and cameras (full frame cameras, droolllll) Hope I've added to the confusion :lol (snip)

Oui, je suis tres... er...uh...confused, LOL! (hey, 30+ years is a long time!) Can you explain what you mean by "full frame cameras, droollllll" ?!? Sounds like something I should really want, if I knew what the difference was, LOL! Are some cameras only using part of their sensors to record with and not the "full frame"? Yikes...I thought I was finally getting somewhere in understanding all the terminology... :scratch

:doh
~Nee

[gus]

pffttt...french is easy.



Veuillez vous beurrer chien comme je veux conduire sa voiture à la plage.

[Michiel de Brieder]

Ah mademoiselle, laissez moi explicer Full frame :D
Okay, what kind of sensors do manufacturers offer in comparison to 35 mm (from this moment referred to as: Full Frame (FF) :wink)?
The line I know most about is the Canon line:
1. 300D/350D/D30/D60/10D/20D: those sensors are 1.6 times smaller than the standard 35mm format
2. 1D/1D Mark II: those sensors are 1.3 times smaller than the standard 35mm format
3. 1Ds/1Ds Mark II: we call these sensors full frame because they cover the same size as a 35mm frame
Nikon has a 1.5 so-called crop and if I'm correct they also have a camera where you can 'change' that factor by using less of the sensor, and thus becoming faster (more sports oriented)
So, why is FF (full frame) interesting? Well, here's the deal, if the sensor is smaller than 35mm format (like the 1.6x crop, also called APS-C size) then the Field of View (FoV) becomes smaller. Suppose you would use a 100mm lens on a 350D then you'd get the FoV of a 160mm lens on a FF camera. There's a lot of discussion on this on forums, but the fact remains, that if you have a 100mm lens, 2 cameras, one full-frame 4 megapixels and one APS-C 4 megapixels, then the APS-C will show a part of the photo on FF, but as large as the FF-photo itself (that is: at the same resolution as the full frame photo is) This can also start a discussion on lenses being outresolved by sensors, but that's something different, don't let it get into your mind :wink
The bottom line: if you like to do tele-work, then the APS-C sensor really has benefits :D if you want more wide... you'll want as large sensor as you can get (but you'll pay loads for it, like $8000 for a 1Ds Mark II).
Shove that aside for a nice 17-40 F/4 L from Canon, one of the cheapest L-lenses available. It has a wide angle of around 28mm equivalent, and that suffices for a lot of people.
So, big sensor, nice wide, smaller sensor, nice tele. Canon offers more growth towards wide, but at bottom level is more restrained for wide angle.
Making sense??

[Michiel de Brieder]

pffttt...french is easy.



Veuillez vous beurrer chien comme je veux conduire sa voiture à la plage. Right.... :lol
So, ehm, you wanna say you'll take a dog to the beach by car any time??? :rofl

okay, here's from babelfish:
Please butter dog as I want to drive his car to the beach
:lol

[Nee7x7]

:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

French is not so easy, eh?
(Michiel, my reply to your longer post is coming up!) ~Nee

Right.... :lol
So, ehm, you wanna say you'll take a dog to the beach by car any time??? :rofl

okay, here's from babelfish:
Please butter dog as I want to drive his car to the beach
:lol

[Nee7x7]

So...Michiel, does that mean that what you see in the viewfinder is more than what you'll actually get on the sensor? Is that what Phil Askey means by the percentage of view you see him mention (ie. 95%)? If that's the case, it's a little scary to think that you lose 5% of the image you see in the viewfinder when it translates to what the sensor picks up. I tend to compose pretty tightly in the camera, so if I'm understanding the concept here (which is a BIG if, LOL!), that means I'll have to learn to shoot a looser comp than what I'm used to...

OK, if that's NOT the idea, then I guess I'm still lost in the woods here. I knew about the multiplication tables (1.5x, 1.6x) and that it meant more zoom and less wide angle than the given numbers on the lenses, but I wasn't sure what it meant other than that.

Sigh...I need to reread your post again. Still lost in the woods I think, and I don't have a big chien to keep me company, only quelque chats :rofl
Merci ~Nee

ps. I'm more *into* zoom than wide angle, so I'm ok with the numbers game :D

[DavidTO]

The surface area of 35mm film is larger than the surface area of the sensor.

The conversion factor is the ratio of the difference between the two.

Since the sensor's smaller, it effectively adds to the focal length of the lens, making for a stronger zoom.

[GerryDavid]

So...Michiel, does that mean that what you see in the viewfinder is more than what you'll actually get on the sensor? Is that what Phil Askey means by the percentage of view you see him mention (ie. 95%)? If that's the case, it's a little scary to think that you lose 5% of the image you see in the viewfinder when it translates to what the sensor picks up. I tend to compose pretty tightly in the camera, so if I'm understanding the concept here (which is a BIG if, LOL!), that means I'll have to learn to shoot a looser comp than what I'm used to...

OK, if that's NOT the idea, then I guess I'm still lost in the woods here. I knew about the multiplication tables (1.5x, 1.6x) and that it meant more zoom and less wide angle than the given numbers on the lenses, but I wasn't sure what it meant other than that.

Sigh...I need to reread your post again. Still lost in the woods I think, and I don't have a big chien to keep me company, only quelque chats :rofl
Merci ~Nee

ps. I'm more *into* zoom than wide angle, so I'm ok with the numbers game :D
I think what you see in the view finder is what you get in the image, plus you get 5 or 10% extra that the viewfinder doesnt see unless you spend $8000 for the Canon 1Ds Mark II. They could make it 100% for the cheaper cameras but they want you to spend more money so its a markting ploy.

Im pretty sure the mirror is smaller so you dont see the same area as the 35mm slr's, but the area that the ccd see's.

I could be wrong on this stuff.

Also the 1.6 crop factor isnt really a magnification. You get the same perspective but its just cropped in the center, so you get the illusion of a magnification. Which really sucks for wide angle lenses. If you hack the camera and put a p&s ccd in the camera, think of the telephoto illusion youd get. Wouldnt it be like 2 or 3x's?

[gus]

So maybe it has an LCD viewing screen ? :rofl


Imagine not taking a photo through the LCD viewfinder :lol4 :lol4 :lol4 :huh

[Michiel de Brieder]

Imagine not taking a photo through the LCD viewfinder Hey now 'Gus, yer pullin' our leg right?? Just to be sure mate: you can't compose a shot by means of the LCD, only the OVF..... The LCD offers a review of a shot, never a preview

[Red Bull]

I'm pretty sure he's pullin' our leg...Otherwise, I would be very worried...http://dgrin.com/images/smilies/yelrotflmao.gif

The more I look at the camera, the more I get used to it. I wouldn't buy it as a main camera, but I would buy it if I wanted to get a second dslr camera as a backup, or one that wouldn't be as hard to lug arround.

[marlinspike]

Hey now 'Gus, yer pullin' our leg right?? Just to be sure mate: you can't compose a shot by means of the LCD, only the OVF..... The LCD offers a review of a shot, never a preview
There is only one dSLR that lets you compose with the LCD: the Fuji S3, and even then you can't take a picture in that mode, it's black and white only, and you only get 30 seconds. I think you'll find that once you start using the viewfinder you like it immensley more anyways.
Richard

[Nee7x7]

I saw in a recent forum post (actually, one of the camera owner write-ups) on dpreview that someone actually returned their brand new dslr because the LCD "wasn't working properly", LOL! They said their previous (non-dslr) camera let them see a live image on the LCD, but the new camera didn't, no matter what setting they tried. They actually sent it in for repair (!) first and of course it was sent back saying there was no problem, but when the owner tried it again, the "same problem occurred"! So the person said they would never buy that brand again and returned the camera to the store for a refund... :rofl

[Nee7x7]

So maybe it has an LCD viewing screen ? :rofl

...even without the LCD viewing screen ;)
~Nee :rofl

[gus]

I saw in a recent forum post (actually, one of the camera owner write-ups) on dpreview that someone actually returned their brand new dslr because the LCD "wasn't working properly", LOL! They said their previous (non-dslr) camera let them see a live image on the LCD, but the new camera didn't, no matter what setting they tried. They actually sent it in for repair (!) first and of course it was sent back saying there was no problem, but when the owner tried it again, the "same problem occurred"! So the person said they would never buy that brand again and returned the camera to the store for a refund... :rofl
:uhoh

[gus]

Guys i have a friend of a friend of a friend that wanted to know....

This battery pack that fits under the new XT.

I read ..sorry i mean.. 'THEY' read somewhere that it holds 6 AA batts....that sound about right ?

***stop press***

Everyone stop looking.....it takes the BG-E3 battery grip (optional extra) & that holds 6xAA's.

As an added bonus, the DIGIC II chip is so efficient, it actually reduces the EOS Digital Rebel XT camera’s power consumption (and extends battery life) by approximately 35%.

[wxwax]

:uhoh
:rofl :rofl :rofl

[wxwax]

As an added bonus, the DIGIC II chip is so efficient, it actually reduces the EOS Digital Rebel XT camera’s power consumption (and extends battery life) by approximately 35%.


Unless you set it on Vibrate mode.

[jimf]

No, not banding. I saw that on the 1D, but not on the mkII. I just mean plain old noise. If I dare to play with the Exposure slider on a high ISO RAW pic, I can't go very far before ugly noise intrudes. I also notice that there's even less latitude with Contrast in a high ISO shot - they blow-out far more readily.

All of which I take to mean that if you use high ISO, the exposure has to be spot-on in the camera, as you can't do much fixing in post. Which is a bummer, since I am technically weak at making perfect exposures. It's one of the many things that I admire about Andy's work - he understands how to get it right in the camera. :bluduh

You're right in all your observations, but you can get most of your manipulation lattitude back if you use a decent noise elimination package before you start playing with exposure and whatnot. I use the excellent Neat Image, which is well worth the $50ish they charge for it. It's like magic.

jim

[cmr164]

As an added bonus, the DIGIC II chip is so efficient, it actually reduces the EOS Digital Rebel XT camera’s power consumption (and extends battery life) by approximately 35%.


Unless you set it on Vibrate mode. How does a married man convince his wife to let him buy a camera :dunno

[luckyrwe]

[/font][/i]
How does a married man convince his wife to let him buy a camera :dunno
Here is what I did:
1. Calculate the price of what you want.
2. Double it.
3. Save up that much.
4. Do something SHE wants with 1/2. Pay bills, get a new dishwasher, fly her mother in.
5. Now spend the other half on yourself.

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap

[ShebaJo]

Here is what I did:
1. Calculate the price of what you want.
2. Double it.
3. Save up that much.
4. Do something SHE wants with 1/2. Pay bills, get a new dishwasher, fly her mother in.
5. Now spend the other half on yourself.

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap
OR another way to get your wife to let you buy a camera...get her interested in photography and buy her a camera too! I guarantee you I would choose a camera over a dishwasher any day. BUTsince I have a 20D, I would take another lens. :thumb :clap

[patch29]

dpreview has posted some images from a pre-production 350D, here. (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05022001canon350dsamples.asp)

[cmr164]

Here is what I did:
1. Calculate the price of what you want.
2. Double it.
3. Save up that much.
4. Do something SHE wants with 1/2. Pay bills, get a new dishwasher, fly her mother in.
5. Now spend the other half on yourself.

:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap:clap
The answer to the question was in the quote above it. You are all really operating with low ISO today
:rofl

[Nee7x7]

dpreview has posted some images from a pre-production 350D, here. (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05022001canon350dsamples.asp)

Is it me, or do several of the outdoor pics seem to be a bit overexposed? On my (lcd) screen, the lighter areas (esp. whites) seem washed out. It might be the rushed situation with Phil Askey at the PMA show and his not having enough time to put out the best presentation...but they do seem to be a bit of a hiccup to all the previous excitement. As I said before, picture quality is the first and foremost consideration for me as I look toward purchasing my first dslr camera. I'm hoping the second set of pics Phil will be posting from the 350D will either confirm or debunk the notion that there might be something less than desirable about this camera. I really hope my fears are unfounded (she says as the bubble threatens to burst!). I WANT this camera to be everything I hoped it would be...really, I do! :uhoh

~Nee :wxwax

[jimf]

Is it me, or do several of the outdoor pics seem to be a bit overexposed? On my (lcd) screen, the lighter areas (esp. whites) seem washed out.

It's not just you.

[fish]

Is it me, or do several of the outdoor pics seem to be a bit overexposed?

I noticed that too. Does the 350drebel have set parameters like the 20D? Maybe he used a flat parameter, which wouldn't show that camera in the best light. :dunno

[gus]

Somethings wrong thats for sure...i hardly expect canon would release a camera that shoots worse than its predese...predcess...the one before it.

Maybe some type of prototype ?

[Nee7x7]

Somethings wrong thats for sure...i hardly expect canon would release a camera that shoots worse than its predese...predcess...the one before it.

Maybe some type of prototype ?

Gus, if Canon is planning to have this camera on the market by next month, (and you know they're expecting a huge response from the buying public), then my guess is that they're beyond making just a prototype and well into production on it already. Of course, Canon is also known for having firmware fixes down the road...and it may well be that it was the parameters Phil used to shoot on the fly with. I did notice that some of the pics had a +EV setting (though why Phil would purposely overexpose them doesn't make much sense). I'm still keeping my fingers crossed...

~Nee :huh

[Nee7x7]

From Dpreview notes on the 350Drebel...

"Unless otherwise noted images taken with no particular settings at full resolution. A reduced size image (within 1024 x 1024 bounds) is provided to be more easily viewed in your browser. As always the original untouched image is available by clicking on this reduced image.

Pre-production camera disclaimer: These samples were taken with a pre-production EOS 350D with Firmware 1.01." - Gus, looks like you were right on this one!

Fish, the camera does have a pretty decent feature set of customizable parameters >listed here< (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos350d/page2.asp) ...not sure how they compare to the 20D. You'd be the better judge of that~

Still Hoping...
~Nee :rolleyes

[fish]

Fish, the camera does have a pretty decent feature set of customizable parameters >listed here< (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos350d/page2.asp) ...not sure how they compare to the 20D. You'd be the better judge of that~
Yes, it looks quite similar to the 20D parameters. My guess is they had it set on flat and did little to improve the images. There's a big difference when you set it on parameter 1.

[gus]

Tks Nee. We get the silver one in March & the black in May. $1900 shekels ($1500 USD !!)

Little wonder that net buying is becoming so popular here.

[Michiel de Brieder]

Tks Nee. We get the silver one in March & the black in May. $1900 shekels ($1500 USD !!) WOW, how many talents is that???? :lol

[Nee7x7]

[QUOTE=Humungus]Tks Nee. We get the silver one in March & the black in May. $1900 shekels ($1500 USD !!) QUOTE]

Hmmmmm....can you post a link to where you got that info? On Dpreview and Steve's Digicams they listed the (expected) price for the kit w/lens at $999 US! ($899 without the lens).

They also stated that the black body was the standard color and the silver would be an option in only certain (probably metropolitan) areas. Where did you find your info? I actually hope your wrong on this one, LOL! I don't want to wait an extra 2 months to get a black one (yeah, I know...maybe a little silly of me, but I prefer the more "professional" look of the black body). :flash

Well...the wait goes on (and on and on)~
Heck, I may just give up and buy the Nikon, LOL!

Cheers!
~Nee :rofl

[gus]

[QUOTE=Humungus]Tks Nee. We get the silver one in March & the black in May. $1900 shekels ($1500 USD !!) QUOTE]

Hmmmmm....can you post a link to where you got that info? On Dpreview and Steve's Digicams they listed the (expected) price for the kit w/lens at $999 US! ($899 without the lens).


Cheers!
~Nee :rofl
This is a strange land for animals & retail items Nee. Pretty well all the talk on the 0z usernet says the silver is 1st & black due here about May (thats what the dealers on there say anyway).

We pay dearly for stuff like cameras etc.

[Nee7x7]

This is a strange land for animals & retail items Nee. Pretty well all the talk on the 0z usernet says the silver is 1st & black due here about May (thats what the dealers on there say anyway).

We pay dearly for stuff like cameras etc.

Then why buy it there? What about buying your camera off the 'net? Or somewhere else...Europe, Asia, or here in the USA? Is it because of the warranty? Or the type of electrical outlets?

It may well be that you Aussies will be getting the silver first instead of the black. The reviewers did say silver was only available in certain areas...I guess you're in that "certain area", LOL!

BTW, I have an old camera bag you can use to take your US bought gear back to the land of OZ if you need one! Hmmmm...don't you have a famous wizard there? I heard Dorothy found some magical red shoes and she needs a way home~ :giggle

~Nee :D

[gus]

Then why buy it there?
~Nee :D
Because i have $1100 credit at a camera shop here that is not transferable so i might as well use it up on a camera because if you think our camera prices are bad....try seeing what we pay for lenses :uhoh

Thanks for the offer Nee but what im actually going to do is take some of my old canon glass with me & declare them on the way out...if they count them on the way out then i post 'em back ...if they dont then they can come back with the new stuff. I will have to see how i get the boxes back...maybe just flatten them & put them separate.

Still some half eaten jam covered bag may help the cause. :thumb

[Nee7x7]

Because i have $1100 credit at a camera shop here that is not transferable so i might as well use it up on a camera because if you think our camera prices are bad....try seeing what we pay for lenses :uhoh

Thanks for the offer Nee but what im actually going to do is take some of my old canon glass with me & declare them on the way out...if they count them on the way out then i post 'em back ...if they dont then they can come back with the new stuff. I will have to see how i get the boxes back...maybe just flatten them & put them separate.

Still some half eaten jam covered bag may help the cause. :thumb

So, is the credit at the camera store burning a hole in your pocket or what, LOL? You must have a lot of self control to be able to hold off for as long as you have, esp. without access to any camera at all! I'd be going bonkers for sure! :oogle

Well, the camera bag isn't all that beat up looking (sorry, no jam on it, either...you'll have to do that yourself, LOL!), but I'll be happy to bring it if you need it. BTW, what will you do with your old Canon lenses? Are they no good at all? Won't work on the new camera? Or will you take them back to the land of OZ as well as your new gear?

So...any idea when will your new camera will finally be revealed? Will it be stylish silver...or basic black, LOL!

Yeah, I know...you're not telling just yet! Me either (still waiting to see how the new Drebel pans out). I just hope we don't have to wait for Yosemite to find out!

Cheers!
~Nee :):

[gus]

Burning a hole in my pocket is an understatement Nee believe me. My old canon stuff is just that ...old. I think there is more mold in them than in my fridge. We have a climate here so humid that would make florida look dry (on the same latitude as chile) They are not worth worrying about.... some old wides & 200mm tele from '83.

The camera ?...:lynn i said you 1st :lol3

I will make the phone call next week & order it but i will be sad that i have nothing left to annoy andy with.

[Nee7x7]

Burning a hole in my pocket is an understatement Nee believe me. My old canon stuff is just that ...old. I think there is more mold in them than in my fridge. We have a climate here so humid that would make florida look dry (on the same latitude as chile) They are not worth worrying about.... some old wides & 200mm tele from '83.

The camera ?...:lynn i said you 1st :lol3

I will make the phone call next week & order it but i will be sad that i have nothing left to annoy andy with.

Too bad about the old lenses...but they might just be the ticket to get you back home with the new ones instead... :D

I think you're gonna beat me for ordering your new camera...I'm still waiting to see about the new Drebel (though feeling a bit discouraged about image quality there...). I'm guessing you're gonna get a 20D (you dog!), or you'd be waiting around, too~ :rolleyes

Cheers!
~Nee :smooch

[gus]

Too bad about the old lenses...but they might just be the ticket to get you back home with the new ones instead... :D

I think you're gonna beat me for ordering your new camera...I'm still waiting to see about the new Drebel (though feeling a bit discouraged about image quality there...). I'm guessing you're gonna get a 20D (you dog!), or you'd be waiting around, too~ :rolleyes

Cheers!
~Nee :smooch
Come on Nee...this could be yours in a day or 2 for just $1304 USD

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0399222




.

[Nee7x7]

Come on Nee...this could be yours in a day or 2 for just $1304 USD

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=A0399222


Don't tempt me!!! We have a nice sized credit line at Dell (bought a computer for our daughter from them in December). Their customer service is the pits, though...and they kept sending us the wrong information about our order! We're still waiting for the printer to show up...

Plus...I'm not completely sold on the 20D, either. The banding issues and error 99s have me a bit hesitant (plus how much it weighs! I may be a bit on the *fluffy* side, but I'm not *humungus*, LOL!) ~Nee :smooch

[leebase]

Where am i ever going to need that 3200 ?
Indoors...shots of people....no flash. I use ISO3200 all the time.
http://www.pbase.com/leebase/image/39850828
http://www.pbase.com/leebase/image/39850828/medium.jpg

I was shooting an indoor school carnival...even my f2.8 lenses were too slow...at ISO3200

Lee

[wxwax]

(plus how much it weighs! I may be a bit on the *fluffy* side, but I'm not *humungus*, LOL!) ~Nee :smooch

Dee, have you held one? I can't imagine that the camera body weight is an issue. Now, if you buy some bulky 'L' glass, that's a different matter. :evil

Trying toting a 1D or similar. Now that's a weighty camera. :D

[Nee7x7]

Dee, have you held one? I can't imagine that the camera body weight is an issue. Now, if you buy some bulky 'L' glass, that's a different matter. :evil

Trying toting a 1D or similar. Now that's a weighty camera. :D

Sid, (Nee here),

The problem is that I'm just a total wimp, LOL! Yes, I've actually held one...tested it at the camera store. I probably won't buy any big lenses until sometime after I get my new camera...gotta save the $$$ for that!

I'm waiting to see what the new XT pans out to be before I decide which way to go. Give me a couple weeks...I'll definitely be deciding on one before the end of March!

Cheers!
~Nee :rolleyes

[mslammers]

Sid, (Nee here),

The problem is that I'm just a total wimp, LOL! Yes, I've actually held one...tested it at the camera store. I probably won't buy any big lenses until sometime after I get my new camera...gotta save the $$$ for that!

I'm waiting to see what the new XT pans out to be before I decide which way to go. Give me a couple weeks...I'll definitely be deciding on one before the end of March!

Cheers!
~Nee :rolleyes One of the reasons I like the 20D (one of very many) is that it fits my hand. Probably a dumb reason to some, but no dumber than someone with a smaller hand not liking it because of its large size and weight. :rolleyesCalm & rational switch off:clapSo I am just happy that they (Canon) didn't make me feel like a dummy for getting the 20D instead of waiting for the 350D. It is really a marketing thing. If you could get the 350D with ALL of the 20D capabities, it would kill the 20D. Just like they didn't put all of the 1Ds MK II capabilities into the 20D. :thumb

[Nee7x7]

One of the reasons I like the 20D (one of very many) is that it fits my hand. Probably a dumb reason to some, but no dumber than someone with a smaller hand not liking it because of its large size and weight.

Not dumb at all, Mel! If a camera feels awkward in your hands, then how can you ever be happy using it, no matter how good the photos it produces are?!?

I have smaller hands, even for a gal...so the 20D felt a bit too big and unbalanced for me (and the 10D was an even bigger monster which kept me from buying it!). Not to say I couldn't get used to it :wink , but the 350 XT would definitely be a lot easier for my smaller hands (and weaker arms, LOL!) to handle. But I'm not ruling the 20D out entirely...esp. if the 350D fails to pan out in the area of picture quality.

BTW, I'm also seriously considering the (gasp!) Nikon D70 :D . It had a really nice feel to it when I held it in my hands. My fingers didn't have to stretch to reach all the controls like they did on the 20D. I liked the balance and weight of it...and the quality of images is pretty nice, too! :thumb I just wish it had a few more options and a little less noise, but you know what they say...if wishes were horses then beggars would ride! Can't have it all, I guess...(well, unless the 350D meets all my hopeful expectations...then the choice will probably be a no brainer, LOL!).

Cheers!
~Nee :rolleyes

[Buddy]

thanks for all the info here. I'm shoppping again and the Rebel XT is on the short list. a friend bought his wife one for christmas. I may have to try to borrow it for a day and check it out.

[wxwax]

thanks for all the info here. I'm shoppping again and the Rebel XT is on the short list. a friend bought his wife one for christmas. I may have to try to borrow it for a day and check it out.
Hiya Freak! :wave Let us know what you end up deciding, I'm curious to hear your reaction.

[Buddy]

Hiya Freak! :wave Let us know what you end up deciding, I'm curious to hear your reaction.
will do. the kodak dx6490 has done a good point and shoot job. it has enough features to make me realize what I'm missing. and by reading Outdoor Photographer, I'm slowly educating myself :lol3 to the point of thinking about taking a photography class :D

just a photo n00b :lol3 I'll get there.

[wxwax]

will do. the kodak dx6490 has done a good point and shoot job. it has enough features to make me realize what I'm missing. and by reading Outdoor Photographer, I'm slowly educating myself :lol3 to the point of thinking about taking a photography class :D

just a photo n00b :lol3 I'll get there.
You know, I keep meaning to do that. There's so much to learn, especially on the technical end. Funny you should mention landscapes. Andy's organized a Yosemite event for May - should make for some very cool landscapes. I'm looking forward to it.

[DoctorIt]

thanks for all the info here. I'm shoppping again and the Rebel XT is on the short list. a friend bought his wife one for christmas. I may have to try to borrow it for a day and check it out.I thought the XT was just being released?! Someone already bought one for xmas??? :dunno

[mercphoto]

I thought the XT was just being released?! Someone already bought one for xmas??? :dunno

I assumed he meant the original Reble, not the new Rebel XT.

[wxwax]

Yeah, me too.

[DoctorIt]

Yeah, me too.OK, just wanted to check... i've been keeping up with the XT only sporadically.

[GerryDavid]

OK, just wanted to check... i've been keeping up with the XT only sporadically.
I was checking out accessories for the xt, and I came accross an angled viewfinder, for looking straight down into the camera, thought that was odd but interesting.

Also I found out the battery grip is like $200us, bit more expensive than the 300d's version.