Sonoma Coast Sunset

[LiquidAir]

I live near a great deal of beautiful rugged coastline and I am trying to get better at capturing it in pixels. I don't feel like I am there yet, but I am not sure what I am missing. Please help!

http://gallery.liquidairphoto.com/photos/167043493-L-1.jpg

[Elaine]

Hmmm...sorry I can't help you. It looks pretty stunning to me! :clap The colors, the crisp silhouette, the soft water..all very nice.

It does have a lot of black space, but I can see that you wanted to keep the tree and the rocks in the water, so I'm not sure what can be done about that. Is it possible to shoot from an even lower vantage point and to the left? Maybe have more water and rocks in the foreground, force the horizon line up a bit and move the large silhouette further right? I think seastack needs to chime in here!

I'll be quiet now. What do I know? I think it's beautiful!

[Gary Glass]

Lovely composition and color. But I think it's too dark. You may want the rocks very dark even black, but the rest of the shot is still too dark too. I'd stretch the dynamic range a bit.

[emmalou]

THe silouette reminds me of an artist here by the name of Roy Vickers, he does the most beautiful Native Art. He uses alot of the blue hues,oranges,yellow etc....

I like the photo.

[HarlanBear]

I think it's darn good. :thumb

Great silouettes and colors in the color areas. If anything, I'd echo Gary and see if you can get more out of the water and sky, or at least the water.

But a fine piece of work, IMO.

[Dee]

You knew there might be a however, right? I too live on the coast, so my first thought was, Heh? He's got banding in the sky -- then I thought back to a few days ago when I said to my hubby, doesn't the sky look like someone has banding in photoshop? (Banding is such a no-no in the print world, so it's almost an inside joke with us.)

I too have those dark rocks that just want to turn murky back against the bright sky, and the pretty water at that time of evening can often be a silvery blue, silvery green, or just almost a silver color depending on the sky, but turns dark instead when photographed.

I'm still messing around with RAW and trying to remember what I saw, and then trying to get the same thing in my final post processed image -- and not doing all that well at the moment. I'm thinking now that I will take a shot of the water, and a shot at the sky, then do my overall shot in RAW and use the first two to balance my photo.

So I'd like the water lighter, and just the barest hint of detail in the rock and possibly the tree.

I think the MAIN problem to me is that the tree and the high point of the rocks are fighting for attention and making my eye move around from one to another instead of resting somewhere and enjoying the sunset...

So possibly another composition might work better for you??? Once you have the composition down (and I could vary depending on what's happening in the sky) you can worry about balancing the light and darks. Make sense?

[Briggie]

Hey Ken!! Lovely photo!! What i would try would be to use some ND Grad filters, dark end up, so that you can use a slower shutter to capture some details and light on the coastline, and still not blow out the sky. This is just some "book smarts" i picked up from a course i took a few months back, but that's what my prof was doing with some of his sunsets... but, you probably already know this!! I myself have not had an opportunity to try this technique out, but, maybe some of the resident guru's could corroborate (or even debunk) my suggestion??

I personally like your composition very much!! The silhouette is perfect! Love the tree!

Cheers!
Brige

[Briggie]

Hmmm....just perused your gallery... forget i even said anything!!! :bow:bow:bow

You know EXACTLY what you're doing!!


:dohBrige

[LiquidAir]

Hmmm...sorry I can't help you. It looks pretty stunning to me! :clap The colors, the crisp silhouette, the soft water..all very nice.

It does have a lot of black space, but I can see that you wanted to keep the tree and the rocks in the water, so I'm not sure what can be done about that. Is it possible to shoot from an even lower vantage point and to the left? Maybe have more water and rocks in the foreground, force the horizon line up a bit and move the large silhouette further right?

Thanks. My original plan was to shoot just the tree with sunset behind it, but I couldn't find a point of view which made that work. Putting the water in the foreground was actually a fall back. If I could have gotten further left or down I would have but the tripod for this shot was an a small rocky point mere inches from a 30 foot vertical drop into the water so the best perspective for this shot was likely from a boat.


I think seastack needs to chime in here!


Heh. Seastack is the man who gave me that little kick in the rear to start seriously working on these shots. Working with the light, water (and often wind) is tough and clearly takes lots of practice.

[LiquidAir]

Lovely composition and color. But I think it's too dark. You may want the rocks very dark even black, but the rest of the shot is still too dark too. I'd stretch the dynamic range a bit.

Thanks. Its dark because I am sRGB gamut challenged. I have not yet found the trick to brightening shots like this without losing color. At times I feel like I am alwasy pushing it to 11 to get the color contrast I want and I am missing some of the more subtle tricks fo the trade. Thinking about it now, I have a few ideas I am going to try. I'll give it shot.

[LiquidAir]

THe silouette reminds me of an artist here by the name of Roy Vickers, he does the most beautiful Native Art. He uses alot of the blue hues,oranges,yellow etc....

I like the photo.

I took a look at Vickers' site and he's got some nice work. The lithos he does really boil questions of composition and color down to the essentials. Thanks.

[Marc Muench]

I took a look at Vickers' site and he's got some nice work. The lithos he does really boil questions of composition and color down to the essentials. Thanks.


Ken,

I would like to see more space to the left. Either stitch two exposures or crop a wider angle shot. The sky is well exposed but the water needs to be brighter. It would impove this type of shot if you processed it into AdobeRGB at 16bit. You can always "covert to profile", tht is into sRGB for the web once all your photoshop work is complete:wink

Great scene, well worth the work:thumb

[LiquidAir]

You knew there might be a however, right? I too live on the coast, so my first thought was, Heh? He's got banding in the sky -- then I thought back to a few days ago when I said to my hubby, doesn't the sky look like someone has banding in photoshop? (Banding is such a no-no in the print world, so it's almost an inside joke with us.)


I know all too well the demons of posterizaion (that's what I've learned to call banding from photoshop) to the point where adding small amount of noise after a Gaussian blur has become nearly a reflex for me. You are right that the banding in this shot is real and in fact I have pushed the contrast there a bit to emphasize it.


I'm still messing around with RAW and trying to remember what I saw, and then trying to get the same thing in my final post processed image -- and not doing all that well at the moment. I'm thinking now that I will take a shot of the water, and a shot at the sky, then do my overall shot in RAW and use the first two to balance my photo.


This shot is actually a blend of two RAW exposures; one for the water the other for the sky. I layered them in Photoshop and used layer mask to blend them. I wish now shutter on my foreground was a stop slower because that would help pull more detail out. That said, I will go take a look at my original RAW files to see just how much can be recovered from what I have.


I think the MAIN problem to me is that the tree and the high point of the rocks are fighting for attention and making my eye move around from one to another instead of resting somewhere and enjoying the sunset...


I think you have hit on what is bothering me about this shot. That point gets center stage both through its placement and its high contrast, and yet it is really not visually strong enough to hold the picture together. The stronger parts of of the image are pushed off to the edges as a supporting cast. Bumping up the brightness of the foreground waves will help them compete with that point, but is seems unlikely that I can make them bright enough to take center stage and stay within the the realm of the plausible.

It's that old lesson I need to learn over and over again when I am shooting; I need to make a clear choice of what I want my center of interest to be and shoot to support it. I remember wanting the tree to be the center of the shot but I couldn't find a way to make that work, so I shifted over to the point because that was where the sunset was. What I failed to do was think "do I really want this point to be my center of interest?"

[LiquidAir]

Hey Ken!! Lovely photo!! What i would try would be to use some ND Grad filters, dark end up, so that you can use a slower shutter to capture some details and light on the coastline, and still not blow out the sky. This is just some "book smarts" i picked up from a course i took a few months back, but that's what my prof was doing with some of his sunsets... but, you probably already know this!! I myself have not had an opportunity to try this technique out, but, maybe some of the resident guru's could corroborate (or even debunk) my suggestion??

I personally like your composition very much!! The silhouette is perfect! Love the tree!

Cheers!
Brige


Actually, I think you are right about the ND grad. I have a set of ND grads I used to use in my film days, but they are too small for the 77mm thread in my current workhorse landscape lens (the Canon 24-105/4L IS). Up until recently my theory has been that I can always blend exposures when I need to control contrast, and in fact that is what I did here. If you look closely you can see the gradient blend on the left in the water next to the horizon. The net effect of the exposure blend in this case is quite similar to an ND grad. However, after a number of rather grueling Photoshop sessions, I am learning that blending exposures has its limitations, particularly in situations like this one with both moving water and a high contrast silhouette. As a result, I ordered a new larger set of ND grads last week and they should be winging their way to my house soon. :clap

[emmalou]

I took a look at Vickers' site and he's got some nice work. The lithos he does really boil questions of composition and color down to the essentials. Thanks.

I should have added a link for you, sorry.
His colors are so strong, and his use seems so simple, but I know it is complex.

[ian408]

I very much like the silhouette. The colors are nice, especially the sky.
The water in the foreground is nice as well.

When I think of what would make this better, I think of balancing the height
with width. So more neutral space to the left is how I would handle that.

I'm not sure about coloring the water though.

[Briggie]

Actually, I think you are right about the ND grad. I have a set of ND grads I used to use in my film days, but they are too small for the 77mm thread in my current workhorse landscape lens (the Canon 24-105/4L IS). Up until recently my theory has been that I can always blend exposures when I need to control contrast, and in fact that is what I did here. If you look closely you can see the gradient blend on the left in the water next to the horizon. The net effect of the exposure blend in this case is quite similar to an ND grad. However, after a number of rather grueling Photoshop sessions, I am learning that blending exposures has its limitations, particularly in situations like this one with both moving water and a high contrast silhouette. As a result, I ordered a new larger set of ND grads last week and they should be winging their way to my house soon. :clap



Cool!... let us see what you make with those! I'm currently "sans" PhotoShop, so the whole exposure blending fun will have to wait a little while, which has led me to enjoy portrait and candid work more, since the post isn't that intense (usually done with low light and wide open f-stops). I'm usually frustrated with the results i get when i start in on landscapes, with only a polarizing filter at my disposition. But, gotta start small and work my way up gear wise! So, would i be right in assuming that most captures of sunset/horizon/sea/beach where the beach is incredibly luminous and detailed is more likely of result of HDR work, or some other post processing? Is it even possible to acheive these huge dynamic range photos using filters alone? Just curious!

BTW, i really enjoyed your gallery, and thanks for posting back on my noobie reply :D!!

Ciao!
Brige

[LiquidAir]

Ken,
I would like to see more space to the left. Either stitch two exposures or crop a wider angle shot.


I realize as you say this that I don't see panoramas when I shoot. The aspect ratios I see in my head are all between 2x3 and 1x1. Clearly I need to spend some time deliberately shooting panos to develop a better sense when they work.


It would impove this type of shot if you processed it into AdobeRGB at 16bit. You can always "covert to profile", tht is into sRGB for the web once all your photoshop work is complete:wink



My current workflow is actually to go from Lightroom to Photoshop in 16 bit ProPhoto RGB (that seems to be the natural color space for Lightroom). My processed original is then a .psd file in ProPhoto RGB and I let Lightroom take care of conversions to sRGB when I generate JPEGs. However when I work in Photoshop, I set the proofing color space to sRGB and leave proofing colors and gaumt warning on.

There are two reasons for this. I have been bit a few times when "convert to
profile" has eaten some critical detail of a shot. The other motiviation for viewing in the sRGB colorspace is that gives me consistancy of process. Otherwise what I am seeing on screen is my monitor calibration gamut which varies from week to week as I recalibrate.

As I think about it now, it feels like I am overracting to a couple of bad experiences. Most of the time "convert to profile" works just fine. I try setting my proofing space to my monitor gamut instead. I use a reasonably good CRT montior; its gamut is significanly larger than sRGB. I do still think I want some kind of warning when I am creating colors I can't see at least so I can make a judge whether it is likely to be a problem or not.


Great scene, well worth the work:thumb

Thanks! At this point my primary focus is actually my camera technique. Shooting out there on in sand and slippery rock cliffs and contending with the wind and ocean spray is harder that I anticipated. Each time I go out, I work a little smarter and a little more efficiently and over time I expect that will improve the quality of my results. So, while I am very happy with the help improving this image, for me the real gems of this execrcise have been how to think better and work better next time I go out.

[LiquidAir]

Ok, here's a new version:

http://gallery.liquidairphoto.com/photos/167427841-L.jpg

I used two separate curves layers, one for the water, the other for the sky. The gradient between them is actually in the darkest part of the sky so pushing up the brightness of the water caught the horizon as well. In the sky I locked down the darker parts to preserve color and subtly pushed up the brightest parts. I did all the moves in RGB (instead of LAB), so the water gained some saturation as seems norm for this kind of RGB move.

[Gary Glass]

Excellent. I think you nailed the colors & contrast now. Beautiful shot.

[HarlanBear]

Now THAT'S a winner! :clap

Wonderful job, Ken.

[LiquidAir]

Cool!... let us see what you make with those! I'm currently "sans" PhotoShop, so the whole exposure blending fun will have to wait a little while, which has led me to enjoy portrait and candid work more, since the post isn't that intense (usually done with low light and wide open f-stops). I'm usually frustrated with the results i get when i start in on landscapes, with only a polarizing filter at my disposition. But, gotta start small and work my way up gear wise! So, would i be right in assuming that most captures of sunset/horizon/sea/beach where the beach is incredibly luminous and detailed is more likely of result of HDR work, or some other post processing? Is it even possible to acheive these huge dynamic range photos using filters alone? Just curious!


The exposures I blended to create this shot were only 2 stops apart (1/4s and 1s). I pushed the water up about another stop in post, so a 3 stop ND grad and a 2 second exposure would have gotten me 90% of the way to this result in camera with only one exposure. BTW, I did use a polarizer on this shot to soften the reflections off the water.


BTW, i really enjoyed your gallery, and thanks for posting back on my noobie reply :D!!


Thanks, and sure no problem!

[Seefutlung]

Firstly ... this is a damn good shot ... I like the inky blacks ... the sky is just a pinch too bright ... the problem with this shot ... the reason this is good but not terrific is that there is a zillion photos similar to this shot ... this shot lacks an exceptional focus point which would put it over the top ... make it truly special... like a sailboat ... a setting sun ... a squadron of pelicans ... et cetera ... a special element which would separate this shot from the pack.

My $.02
Gary

[LiquidAir]

Excellent. I think you nailed the colors & contrast now. Beautiful shot.

Thanks. I tend to be overly cautious about controlling contrat, but I think I can use this shot as a reference point now.

[LiquidAir]

Now THAT'S a winner! :clap

Wonderful job, Ken.

Thanks.

[seastack]

:clapWow, what can I say that hasn't been already. Really nice shot and much better with the edit. I'd be tempted to darken the sky on the right just a bit and up the blue saturation but that's me and I'm always fighting my instincts to oversaturate. I'd also agree that this would work well as a pano with more on the left. I'm getting into the habit of turning my camera and grabbing a few extra when I'm doing landscapes for just this reason. Very nice.:clap

P.S. Be happy to give you a kick in the pants anytime.