Mark III focusing issues???

[Harryb]

Hi Y'all,

I've been drooling over the Mark III's specs since it was announced. If Nikon didn't come out with a improved D2H model by the end of this year I was/am seriously considering a switch.

I've been very impressed with some of the images I've seen from the camera but I've been hearing about focusing issues with the Mark III like those here (http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=103425&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

Normally I don't put much stock in complaints from users of new cameras but the OP of the linked thread is Fabs who I've shot with and is IMHO one of the best bird shooters I know. I should be shooting with her later today or tomorrow and will see if I can get more info.

Are there any Mark III owners out there who can shed some light?

[Pezpix]

Harry, from what little I've been gathering, it seems there are a quite a few quality control problems with the Mark III from various forums. I've read some lens compatibility issues, focus issues, shutter problems and even complaints about the cheap screw on cover for the adapter socket falling off.

It seems like the first batch of production issued cameras are not holding up to standards for quite a few people. But, I imagine the quality control will get better once the bugs are finally solved. It kind of makes me wonder though... could this be the reason Canon has been slow to mass-release the camera?

Remember, the 28-105 f4 had some serious QC issues for that first batch and it recovered nicely. Obviously, I'd say, be leery of snagging a copy of the Mark III from EBay or a company that doesnt have a good return policy just in case you run into one of these faulty ones.


On the bright side, I've heard wonders about the awesomeness of the camera in low light/high ISO mode :thumb

Personally, I'd be stunned if I got my hands on a copy of a Mark III before August btw...

[pathfinder]

As I read that thread Harry, this seems limited to bird-in-flight shooters. Apparently there has been no complaints from sports shooters or motor sport shooters. SOmething to do with the subjects size relative ot the background, especially a high contrast background, which is always challenging for AF systems.

This is interesting and needs to be followed. If this is a genreal experience, we will begin hearing about it here too I would expect.

When did the Mklll begin shipping?

Harry, using a Canon??- whatever is the world coming too??!!:D:D

[Harryb]

As I read that thread Harry, this seems limited to bird-in-flight shooters. Apparently there has been no complaints from sports shooters or motor sport shooters. SOmething to do with the subjects size relative ot the background, especially a high contrast background, which is always challenging for AF systems.

This is interesting and needs to be followed. If this is a genreal experience, we will begin hearing about it here too I would expect.

When did the Mklll begin shipping?

Harry, using a Canon??- whatever is the world coming too??!!:D:D

Its a big issue for me since I've been known to do a BIF every now and then. :smile6

Hopefully it will not be a product wide issue or if it is one that can be resolved via a firmware update.

I've got no brand loyalty at all. Now that Canon has finally caught up to Nikon with the Mark III :poke :rofl I have to consider it if Nikon doesn't come out with some new bodies by the end of the year.

[philipw]

It kind of makes me wonder though... could this be the reason Canon has been slow to mass-release the camera?

Somebody on another forum I'm on said a while back that the focusing issue was the reason for the slower release, as the topic came up there shortly after the Mark III was available.

Philip

[Andy]

The Mark III has new focus-assist points - maybe it's user-settable mistake?

Harry and Canon? C'mon, buddy, say it: I was right and you were wrong (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=26203) - c'mon, you can do it :lol3

Attached is from p19 of the MK III White Paper (http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_EOS-1D_Mark_III_White_Paper.pdf).

[Harryb]

The Mark III has new focus-assist points - maybe it's user-settable mistake?

Harry and Canon? C'mon, buddy, say it: I was right and you were wrong (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=26203) - c'mon, you can do it :lol3

Attached is from p19 of the MK III White Paper (http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_EOS-1D_Mark_III_White_Paper.pdf).

Nope, Fabs is aware of the new focus-assist points.

Hey, I haven't switched and probably won't. Any current advantage (a dubious one if there are focusing issues) may be temporary. Maybe the focusing issues Rod G experienced weren't due to a pre-production camera. That's why I'm waiting till the end of the year. Even if I get the Mark III I'll probably be hanging on to my Nikon gear.

Don't forget when I bought my first DSLR I went with the Nikon D100 because of the 10D's focusing issues.

[Zanotti]

Hi Y'all,

I've been drooling over the Mark III's specs since it was announced. If Nikon didn't come out with a improved D2H model by the end of this year I was/am seriously considering a switch.

I've been very impressed with some of the images I've seen from the camera but I've been hearing about focusing issues with the Mark III like those here (http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=103425&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)

Normally I don't put much stock in complaints from users of new cameras but the OP of the linked thread is Fabs who I've shot with and is IMHO one of the best bird shooters I know. I should be shooting with her later today or tomorrow and will see if I can get more info.

Are there any Mark III owners out there who can shed some light?


I would think that your installed base of lenses would make switching from one brand to the other fairly prohibitive. Compared to investments in glass, the bodies are relatively cheap.

Of course, selling everything and rebuying new product is exciting - but lets face it even "L" type glass from Canon or Nikon only holds so much value.

Accessories like tripods are interchangable between brands, but lenses and flashes tend to be brand specific.

I cannot imagine that any serious photog would take changing brands lightly, unless there were major differances in performance.

[Rhuarc]

I would think that your installed base of lenses would make switching from one brand to the other fairly prohibitive. Compared to investments in glass, the bodies are relatively cheap.

Of course, selling everything and rebuying new product is exciting - but lets face it even "L" type glass from Canon or Nikon only holds so much value.

Accessories like tripods are interchangable between brands, but lenses and flashes tend to be brand specific.

I cannot imagine that any serious photog would take changing brands lightly, unless there were major differances in performance.


Haven't you heard, Harry is retired and has money to burn! :D

[pathfinder]

Harry knows that my 300-800 is an EOS mount, that'sall:D :D

I have been looking forward to the 1DMkll since its prerelease reviews, as I am sure a lot of us here have been. EVEN Harry:D

I think Canon WILL get the AF issues, if they are real, solved and fixed.

It is funny that we have not heard from NFL shooters or others about this issue, isn't it?

[Harryb]

Haven't you heard, Harry is retired and has money to burn! :D

:nod

My plan is to spend it all before my son can get his hands on the $.

[Andy]

Nope, Fabs is aware of the new focus-assist points.

Hey, I haven't switched and probably won't. Any current advantage (a dubious one if there are focusing issues) may be temporary. Maybe the focusing issues Rod G experienced weren't due to a pre-production camera. That's why I'm waiting till the end of the year. Even if I get the Mark III I'll probably be hanging on to my Nikon gear.

Don't forget when I bought my first DSLR I went with the Nikon D100 because of the 10D's focusing issues.You are no fun today!

:bad

[ian408]

I'm curious to hear how this works out.

[Harryb]

You are no fun today!

:bad

Hell, I'm talented and pretty and now you want me to be fun too. :crazy If you want fun you better raise my salary. :deal

[pathfinder]

Harry, I found this link on Reichman's website - it is the settings used by Andy Biggs for his 1DMklll. The AF settings near the bottom of the link may be of interest.

http://www.andybiggs.com/blog/my-canon-1dmkiii-configuration-settings/

[Jim Victory]

I have had my MKIII for a little over three weeks now and have put over 3K shots on it. I have not experienced any AF tracking difficulties with BIF nor has any other wildlife photographer I know.

I believe the problems that were cited on naturescapes were specific to BIF where the subject was coming at and away from the shooter. Most of the shots I have are panning with both blue sky and cluttered BG.

Since I own three copies of the 1DMKII and a 1DMKIIn I would have to say the new MKIII is as good if not better with AF tracking.

I don't doubt people are having problems but I certainly don't think it is widespread. You get your share of defective products coming off an assembly line and with the small number in circulation it may seem more prevalent.

I have a sports photography business so that is what I use my cameras for and no one in the business is complaining about the MKIII. Believe me they would if there was a problem because you don't have time to fool with a non-responsive camera during a sporting event.

Wildlife Photography is fun for me but I take it just as seriously as sports. Shooting 100,000+ frames a year during sporting events on various 1 series cameras allows me some familiarity with those cameras and the MKIII is different. I have tried to move most of my settings over to the MKIII from the 1DMKIIn but I have had to tweak some of those settings for it to work right. The more I use it and understand what the settings do the better it gets.

[claudermilk]

Since I own three copies of the 1DMKII and a 1DMKIIn I would have to say the new MKIII is as good if not better with AF tracking.


You realize you just made yourself one of the most hated users on this forum? :D

3K shots in 3 weeks?:yikes note to self, don't buy used bodies from Jim.

re: Harry going to Canon...I hear they are gearing up for a snowball fight downstairs, just waiting on Harry's final word. :bad

[Rhuarc]

You realize you just made yourself one of the most hated users on this forum? :D

3K shots in 3 weeks?:yikes note to self, don't buy used bodies from Jim.

re: Harry going to Canon...I hear they are gearing up for a snowball fight downstairs, just waiting on Harry's final word. :bad


I think I just saw a pig this morning on my way to work. It was acting a little strange, jumping up and down, almost like it was getting ready to fly! :huh

[davemj98]

Is the a lot of messy surgical type stuff that occurs when you change a Nikonian into a Canonite? :thumb Out side of surgically removing all cash and credit? Is it painful? How long would recovery take? Will there be drug therapies? Please tell.:dunno
Regards, David

[Harryb]

I think I just saw a pig this morning on my way to work. It was acting a little strange, jumping up and down, almost like it was getting ready to fly! :huh

re: Harry going to Canon...I hear they are gearing up for a snowball fight downstairs, just waiting on Harry's final word. :bad


Its a possibility guys. Depending on which rumor is a true about Nikon's next offering. One rumor is about a 16 or 24 MP near full frame (1.1) "ubercamera" coming out that will cost around $8K+. If that's true I don't see myself spending that kind of money for a camera not to mention the computer upgrades I would need. For the same $ I can buy a Mark III & a 300F/4 and a 100-400 and give Canon a try. I would keep my current Nikon gear and then see which i liked better.

So it all depends on what Nikon is preping for release. If I did go over to the dark side I would of course assume a new identity. :ivar

[ziggy53]

... If I did go over to the dark side I would of course assume a new identity. :ivar

"Dirty Harryb"?

(Nobody would ever figure that out. :thumb)

[Harryb]

"Dirty Harryb"?

(Nobody would ever figure that out. :thumb)

Probably Tony Bennett or Perry Como since somebody got to Andy Williams already. :D

[Jim Victory]

You realize you just made yourself one of the most hated users on this forum? :D

3K shots in 3 weeks?:yikes note to self, don't buy used bodies from Jim.


I have staff shooters that use the other cameras so the business owns them.:D

It is easy to get 800-1000 shots in one game so 3k in three weeks is not that much. I have been gentle with it because it is my personal camera.:wink

[Jim Victory]

If I did go over to the dark side I would of course assume a new identity. :ivar

I'm confused:huh

Wouldn't that be going to the Light Side since your already on the Dark Side?:D

Nikon makes some nice equipment. The D2x is still one of the best for wildlife. I would have probably moved over myself if they had put VR on their long teles.

[pathfinder]

When you shoot at 8 frames per second, you can run through hundreds of shots very, very quickly.

I am not saying that is what you do, but many of the shooters on the sidelines are shooting in high frame rate mode quite frequently

I am very glad to hear a dissenting voice about AF issues with the 1DMKlll also, as it has been on my shopping list for some time.

[Froggy]

Iv'e had my MK3 for almost three weeks now, at 1st I was having all kinds of issues with foucus and tracking until I figured this baby out.

coming from a 20-30D may be I'm not hung up on old settings vs new, I believe that a lot of these issues stem from a lack of understanding of the CFn111 settings on the MK3.

After many hours of tweaking my camera now works like a dream, I don't really know why, I'm not a techno type, I just know what works and what don't, so through the process of elimination My camera is now set and glued down:D


I posted these shots at DPreview, no tracking problems here

http://froggy.smugmug.com/photos/162300198-L.jpg

http://froggy.smugmug.com/photos/162300372-L.jpg

[Harryb]

I'm confused:huh

Wouldn't that be going to the Light Side since your already on the Dark Side?:D

Nikon makes some nice equipment. The D2x is still one of the best for wildlife. I would have probably moved over myself if they had put VR on their long teles.

Nah Canon will always be the dark side. They just won't ever admit to a mistake. They never officially acknowledged the focusing issues on the 10D and the same apparantly happened (at least from what I heard from various users) with the Mark II that was fixed with the Mark IIn). At least when Nikon screws up they acknowledge it.

Right now if Nikon doesn't come out with an improved D2H they could lose a lot of folks. All the bird shooters loved the D2H(s) but felt too limited by the 4 MP. If Nikon comes out with an improved D2H with 8-10 MP and with better noise handling they will keep us forever. To shoot with a D2H was a marvelous experience. The D2X is terrific but it just doesn't handle as well as a D2H. If you check out some of the threads on the Nikon Cafe there is a long line of outstanding shooters who are considering making the switch if Nikon doesn't come up with an improved D2H.

[kdog]

Nice shots there, Froggy!!! :thumb

However, once again the problem is being described as being able to track a BIF moving directly toward you, or away from you. Both of yours shots are pans. Amazingly good pans, mind you.

-joel

[claudermilk]

I have staff shooters that use the other cameras so the business owns them.:D

It is easy to get 800-1000 shots in one game so 3k in three weeks is not that much. I have been gentle with it because it is my personal camera.:wink

I'm still jealous. :bluduh

I understand how the frame count can pile up. When I get a busy weekend I can add thousands to mine; one event added 8k last year and 12k this year over a week each. I just have the camera sit for a while in between.

Oh, and Harrys new identity: my first thought was Darth Harry. :wink

[Harryb]

I was out shooting at the Wetlands today and I ran into 4 Canonites with the Mark III. The first pair said that initially they were unhappy with the focusing for flight shots and were considering returning the camera. After some conversations with Canon techs (who they said were very aware of the issue) they changed the tracking sensitivity to its slow setting and used the inner 9 focal points and the results were better.

I then ran into Fabs and her partner and Fabs had tried those settings w/o satisfactory results. Her partner said that he was happier with the camera but expected a firmware update.

Everybody raved about the camera's IQ and ISO performance but the consensus seemed to be that the Mark II focused better, at least for flight shots.

[imageswest]

Canon CPS had allotted two Mark III's for me, but after hearing Rob Galbraith wasn't convinced that his production camera autofocused much better than his test model did, I elected to pass on them.

I'm hearing lots of problems with the camera, including a pro dealer in Germany who apparently sent his entire shipment back to Canon because quite a few of his customers were demanding refunds. It amazes me how Canon seems to do this with every new camera they release... :rolleyes

[Harryb]

Canon CPS had allotted two Mark III's for me, but after hearing Rob Galbraith wasn't convinced that his production camera autofocused much better than his test model did, I elected to pass on them.

I'm hearing lots of problems with the camera, including a pro dealer in Germany who apparently sent his entire shipment back to Canon because quite a few of his customers were demanding refunds. It amazes me how Canon seems to do this with every new camera they release... :rolleyes

Its important to realize that we don't know anything for sure yet. The vast majority of responses from Mark III users have been estatic and there have been a fair number of complaints. Its not unusual with a release of a new camera for the unhappy users to get more attention.

To say that Canon has done something is a bit premature. We don't know for sure if there is an issue yet. If there is one is due to firmware (apparantly there are different firmware versions on the released Mark IIIs), is just in some of the earlier released cameras, etc.

Lets sit back and see what transpires before we make any hasty conclusions.

[imageswest]

Its important to realize that we don't know anything for sure yet. The vast majority of responses from Mark III users have been estatic and there have been a fair number of complaints. Its not unusual with a release of a new camera for the unhappy users to get more attention.

To say that Canon has done something is a bit premature. We don't know for sure if there is an issue yet. If there is one is due to firmware (apparantly there are different firmware versions on the released Mark IIIs), is just in some of the earlier released cameras, etc.

Lets sit back and see what transpires before we make any hasty conclusions.
Just my opinion based on 15 years as a (former) Canon pro shooter, Harry. A lot of us have seen this movie before! :lurk

p.s. - here's an interesting article from Rob Galbraith: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006

[Harryb]

Just my opinion based on 15 years as a (former) Canon pro shooter, Harry. A lot of us have seen this movie before! :lurk

p.s. - here's an interesting article from Rob Galbraith: http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006

Galbraith listed the AF issues in his latest article:


Under certain conditions, the EOS-1D Mark III has difficulty acquiring focus initially. In a multi-frame burst, the camera will sometimes shoot three to five frames before a moving subject comes into focus, and occasionally a moving subject will not actually snap into focus before the burst is completed.


Under certain conditions, the camera is unable to properly track a moving subject. We've shot numerous sequences of 20+ frames where no more than five or six frames are in focus, even when the AF point has been on the subject throughout.


Focus can shift slightly but constantly at times when the subject isn't moving. Under certain conditions, the subject may not actually come into focus through a sequence of frames, even though the point of focus can be seen to be shifting throughout the sequence. This is true whether the camera is set to AI Servo and focus is active throughout the sequence, or when it's set to One Shot and focus is activated between each frame.


When tracking a subject that's moving somewhat erratically, the camera is far too quick to shift focus elsewhere - to the background or, with a field sport like soccer, to a player passing through in the foreground. With the first three problems, autofocus settings changes don't make things better or worse. With this problem, Custom Function III-2, AI Servo Tracking Sensitivity, does have an impact. But regardless of how this Custom Function is set, it's not possible to make the camera's tracking sensitivity be right. There's more on this ahead in the article.

[S. Horton]

To cut to the chase, would seasoned professionals generally recommend that consumers await the Mark IIIN? A first round of firmware updates? Not wait because if the gear is set up properly it works?

:dunno

[Ric Grupe]

Here is a place to look, Harry. (if you haven't been there already) :D

http://www.dphotojournal.com/canon-eos-1d-mark-iii/

[claudermilk]

To cut to the chase, would seasoned professionals generally recommend that consumers await the Mark IIIN? A first round of firmware updates? Not wait because if the gear is set up properly it works?

:dunno

There is no general consensus yet. Even the pros I'm seeing posting here & elsewhere are debating the focusing thing. Some are running into the issues Galbraith outlines, others are not. Personally, if I were in line to get one, I'd grab mine and see how it works out and go from there.

[pnphoto]

Wow.

Early this week I was speaking to "my" camera store guy, and was arranging a deposit on two mark III's, and a whole butt load of glass. Big decision.

Read Galbraith's article and have gone into hold pattern. I shoot lots of sports, so focus is critical. I have read way too many issues to commit, I understand that some people don't have any problems, but it is clear that just as many people do have problems with the MIII. As the poster above notes, I too would just get one if I already had all the glass, but making a big switch needs a bit more certainty that I get bodies that work.

The only thing that might stop the switch is Nikon coming out with a 10 fps body and high iso performance before Canon fixes the MIII AF issue.

Anyone wanna buy some Nikon glass? Sale subject to either
(a) New Nikon body with high iso performance
(b) Canon fix the MIII AF issues

[S. Horton]

We backed off when that article came up as well -- we were going to add the MKIII, sell both 30Ds. Looks like now we'll wait it out on the MKIII.

[ziggy53]

For anyone needing a camera "now" for sports or rapid action nature, the camera I would recommend is the Canon 1D MKIIN. This is still the hands-down favorite of Sports Illustrated, and it is a known entity. It is also considerably less expensive than the MKIII.

If you have the money and want to speculate on whether the MKIII will meet your needs, there is a good chance that, in most instances, it will. The photographers having problems with the MKIII are suceeding in overcoming the problem by shooting extra images, something the MKIII is awfully good at (lots of images in a very short time).

[Harryb]

Rod G. added an additional section to his article (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006#june21) on the Mark III.

Basically he says that within 48 hours of his article going up up he received over 200 complaints re:the Mark III's AF.

[Harryb]

Rod G. has added new info (http://robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006#july2) to his Mark III article today.

[Netgarden]

Rod G. has added new info (http://robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006#july2) to his Mark III article today.
I'm watching this closely too. Although I don't use Aiservo anyway, so it probably wouldn't be an issue for me. But the one reason why I am more successful with the center point focus rather than aiservo is that the focus doesn't jump to the wrong place or background. Much more accurate. Stange, the reason I don't use aiservo on my 20D is for the same issues the MkIII is having. birds heading towards you. It's been an issue for me and my 20D and I have solved it. And if your lenses are the least bit off on calibration, especially a long lens, the problem is exaggerated and worse.
I've never had good luck with large evaluation/or large focus point areas with BIFs.

I'm so curious to see how the MkIII does in my settings. Is there anyone who doesn't use aiservo like me?

[John Mueller]

One week and almost 3000 clicks,in most situations the cam focuses rather well.I have had it go a miss with certain function settings and objects coming toward me.
The details,IQ and the low noise at high ISO blows my mind.
Perhaps another 3k clicks this week:huh

[PrescottPhotog]

Hi Y'all,

I've been drooling over the Mark III's specs since it was announced. If Nikon didn't come out with a improved D2H model by the end of this year I was/am seriously considering a switch.

Hi Harry,

I was following the hysteria over at the DP Review forum when the M3 first came out. I have one on order and am getting very concerned.

[Harryb]

[
quote=PrescottPhotog]Hi Harry,


My conclusion is that most (not all) of what you are hearing about the AF system is piling on. Most of the hysteria I read was from people that had never held the camera but were taking legitimate posts about a problem and blowing them totally out of proportion. What some people were writing was unbelieveable. I'm not talking about the Pro's comments, it's the hysteria that others were trying to cause after those posts that was concerning.


I have never put much faith in the hysteria at DPR everytime a new camera is released. I know a few Canonites who are having serious problems with their Mark IIIs. These are experienced shooters who are some of the best nature shooters I know. That coupled with RG's findings lead me to believe there is some issue. The extent of it and the seriousness of it still has to be determined, IMHO.

Its perplexing because I have seen knock out results from the camera and then some horrendous examples of misfocusing from it. If the focusing issue can be resolved (either by correction or explanation) you have a dream camera with unrivaled low llight capabilities.

I'm going to sit back and see how this plays out. :lurk

[ian408]

I don't think we can discount the reports of problems. But it's hard to know
what is real.

[David_S85]

I can easily dismiss most of the negative stories from DPR, but I can't dismiss the more thorough report from Rob Galbraith and company. Canon is using a new technology with the focusing, so it could easily have some tweaks needed. This, if reports are true, could delay the 5DII and the 1DsIII - but kudos to Canon if they can get it working better. Soon the sales of all three new cams will depend on their next move.

[ian408]

Let's say that Canon sells 10 mkIII's. If 2 people have problems, they'll tell
everyone they know and it will spiral from there. The 8 people who didn't
say anything? Nobody knows they exist and as far as any prospective buyer
knows, mkIII's have 'serious issues'. A substantial portion of the population
have few to no problems yet all that's heard is the minority.

I know this from my own experience with the GT (motorcycle). I find myself
complaining about the two or three things that suck worst. Rarely do I say
how much I really like the bike (and the problems are of the same "want to
return it" variety).

As for RG, I respect his (their?) opinion but I want to know if he is in the
minority.

[David_S85]

As for RG, I respect his (their?) opinion but I want to know if he is in the minority.

There is that nasty hoopla effect in merely reporting an anomaly. :nod

Rob has had 3 MkIII's; 1 pre-production where Canon mentioned everything worked except that same troubling AI servo (a known bug on the pre-production units), and then 2 full production cams. He also normally shoots with the MkIIn to compare with, so unlike others who just had their new MkIII shipped, I trust his opinion more than most any other report out there since he knows how to shoot with it.

I just read an interview with Chuck Westfall (trying to find that link again) where he was quoted saying there will be more to say about the AI focusing next month. What that means is anyone's guess.

EDIT
Found the interview (http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0707/tech-tips.html).

[Harryb]

Arthur Morris seems happy with his Mark III as he writes here (http://www.birdsasart.com/bn235.htm).

[wxwax]

Let's say that Canon sells 10 mkIII's. If 2 people have problems, they'll tell
everyone they know and it will spiral from there. The 8 people who didn't
say anything? Nobody knows they exist and as far as any prospective buyer
knows, mkIII's have 'serious issues'. A substantial portion of the population
have few to no problems yet all that's heard is the minority.

I know this from my own experience with the GT (motorcycle). I find myself
complaining about the two or three things that suck worst. Rarely do I say
how much I really like the bike (and the problems are of the same "want to
return it" variety).

As for RG, I respect his (their?) opinion but I want to know if he is in the
minority.
I think that's a more than reasonable point of view.

What sways my opinion is detailed, analytical documentation of the issue, such as Galbraith's. It's not idle chatter if you can prove it. Like puking finals drives on BMW's, you don't need factory acknowledgement to know there's a problem.

I'm curious to see how long it will take Canon to sort it out. I don't think they'll admit there's a problem until they have a solution, maybe not even then.

[wxwax]

Arthur Morris seems happy with his Mark III as he writes here (http://www.birdsasart.com/bn235.htm).
Gosh he's good. Thanks for the link.

[ian408]

I'm curious to see how long it will take Canon to sort it out. I don't think they'll admit there's a problem until they have a solution, maybe not even then.
I think they have, at least, ack'd the problem. Perhaps in not so many words.
And you're right to presume that until the problem is well understood and at
least some idea of how to resolve it, it won't be formally acknowledged. At
least that's how BMW is handling the situation :wink

[Jim Wilson]

I think they have, at least, ack'd the problem. Perhaps in not so many words.
And you're right to presume that until the problem is well understood and at
least some idea of how to resolve it, it won't be formally acknowledged. At
least that's how BMW is handling the situation :wink

I got my MKIII last week and have shot several thousand images with it, much of that air to air and ground to air work with very fast moving subjects. I find no problem at all with the camera. My guess is that it's so fast and has so many autofocus parameters that can be custom set, new users are just victims of the learning curve. Canon has done it again!

Jim Wilson

[ian408]

My guess is that it's so fast and has so many autofocus parameters that can be custom set, new users are just victims of the learning curve. Canon has done it again!

Quick question. Are you using it out of the box or did you read and set the custom functions before use?

[Harryb]

I got my MKIII last week and have shot several thousand images with it, much of that air to air and ground to air work with very fast moving subjects. I find no problem at all with the camera. My guess is that it's so fast and has so many autofocus parameters that can be custom set, new users are just victims of the learning curve. Canon has done it again!

Jim Wilson

The problem is that some of the folks complaining of the issues are accomplished and very experienced shooters like Fabs and Ron G. The 200 e-mails Ron G got and the almost 50% of Mark III users on a poll at Fred Miranda's seem to indicate this may be something more than a few folks not being able to handle a new piece of equipment.

I will always remember when the Sony-717 was released and some users reported focusing problems with it. We ridiculed them and posted the fine shots we were getting from the camera until Sony recalled the camera to address the focusing problems with it.

[jeff lapoint]

First off, let me just say that I don't have the camera and have never shot with it, therefore everything I'm about to write is just more conjecture and forum speculation:dunno Skip as needed:thumb

After attempting to weed through the circus show on DPR and the mostly civilized discussions on FM, naturescapes, and CPOTN, I'll
(foolishly) chime in with a few of my mostly obvious observations.

1. This whole thing has turned into one huge snowballing cluster job. There is just so much crap on the forums re: the markIII it is virtually impossible at this point to be a conscientious consumer of information. Sure this is the nature of the internet, but I feel like we're on one end of the bell curve on this one.

2. Even the information I consider reliable feels problematic. I very much respect Ron G, but what about Artie's experience? Fabs on one hand (great photographer having problems with the camera) and Alfred Forns on the other (great photographer with no problems with the camera). Shoot they even switched cameras and she felt like it "behaved better". Of course this is just my interpretation of their posts and I'm sure someone will correct me if I've misread. Doesn't this seem to indicate a design flaw is less probable and more likely an issue suggest an with QA?

3. For me the multitude of variables make the "data" impossible to interpret, especially with polls like the one on FM. No way to normalize the poll to account for the various fan boy Canon apologists and their counterpart the "I hate everything Canon" trolls. How do I know how many posters don't know how to shoot at all, but have a ton of cash and really dig their neat new toy. Weeding out the measure bater crowd complaining that their 100% crop wont print sharply to billboard size is just as daunting. I even think there is one last pair of shooters that exists. One half bought the camera and loved it until reading all the negative reports and now is convinced there is a problem. Almost an internet photography forum folie a deux. Then there are the other half that was sure there is a problem but are now certain there was just a steep learning curve that they have now sorted out.

And how about the biggest curve ball of all, inter-operator variation in performance and skill/ shooting style.

I don't have 1/10th the skill at shooting BIF's as Fabs probably has in her big toe, but I think every now and again I get some ok shots with my 1DIIn. But I would never shoot with the same settings as she does (ring of fire). I have grown to trust only my center point for fast moving small birds in flight and I never expect all the shots of a machine gun burst to be razor sharp.

4. I've decided the only way to know for sure if the camera will work for me is to try it myself. I'm not ready to do that yet financially, but when it comes time that needs to be the gold standard. At least this whole thing has pointed out to me my own over reliance on internet reviews and opinions. Sure, they can be valuable, but without me being attentive to the source of the info and the biases/limitations of those sources the information is useless.

Sorry for the long, rambling, and only partially on topic post!

-j

[Jim Wilson]

Quick question. Are you using it out of the box or did you read and set the custom functions before use?
Hi Ian,

I went through and set basic parameters. I have shot the camera on AI Servo and high speed drive and one shot. I haven't found a problem yet. I love Canon gear and have 2 1Ds MKII's but I'd be the first to be vocal if a product didn't measure up. That's not to say the people having problems are imagining it. I don't have their cameras, only mine. I do notice that the auto focus is lightning fast and you better have it on the right selection for what your shooting or it'll zip in on some other facet of the composition and soften everything else. So far though with well over 1,000 shots, I'm pretty happy with the camera.

Jim Wilson

[Thusie]

Jumping in Well said Jeff! I've been following the same threads on the same lists. I don't even have the MK2:D But if I had the $$$$, need to recoup from the 300 f2.8L, I'd buy the MK3 right now.

Like a friend of mine told me, he does have the MK3, the only way to know is get down in the dirt with it.

What ever issues there are Canon will get them taken care of. I do believe some cameras do have issues, but I also believe there are many more that don't. What is irking me more than anything is the whole chit chat has went to, if you are not having problems you don't know what your doing and if you do have problems you don't know what your doing. That is just nuts.

[jeff lapoint]

Jumping in Well said Jeff! I've been following the same threads on the same lists. I don't even have the MK2:D But if I had the $$$$, need to recoup from the 300 f2.8L, I'd buy the MK3 right now.

Like a friend of mine told me, he does have the MK3, the only way to know is get down in the dirt with it.

What ever issues there are Canon will get them taken care of. I do believe some cameras do have issues, but I also believe there are many more that don't. What is irking me more than anything is the whole chit chat has went to, if you are not having problems you don't know what your doing and if you do have problems you don't know what your doing. That is just nuts.

Thanks. I very much do believe some people have malfunctions that are not anywhere near their fault, its just that all the babble makes it impossible to makes a reasonable approximation as to the prevalence of the problem.

Enjoy that 300!

-j

[Harryb]

Canon is releasing new firmware (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072101canon1dmkiiifirmware.asp) for the Mark III :clap

[ian408]

Canon is releasing new firmware (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0707/07072101canon1dmkiiifirmware.asp) for the Mark III :clap
I think I can buy one now. The Italian language is fixed :clap :clap :clap

[Harryb]

I think I can buy one now. The Italian language is fixed :clap :clap :clap

and don't forget the Chinese too. :ivar

[pathfinder]

Harry,

Are you now going to join the fellas wearing the white hats?

[ian408]

and don't forget the Chinese too. :ivar

Haha!

I did stop by the local shop today to inquire about the camera. They didn't have any demos because all the pros were buying them up.

[Harryb]

Harry,

Are you now going to join the fellas wearing the white hats?

Well, Rod G. ain't impressed with the firmware (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006#july20) :cry

I'll be sitting back :lurk watching this drama unfold and waiting on what Nikon does by the end of the year. When all the dust settles I'll be making a decision.

[lynnesite]

Hey, Harry and all...

Great galleries, Chris. Jeff, I agree with you.

LOVE my MK III, no focusing issues, but I'm coming off of 30D/20D, haven't tweaked custom functions, did buy Art's UG though.

Got the camera a week ago, almost, 2K through it under difficult conditions, dust, low light, customers are happy.

[wxwax]

Well, Rod G. ain't impressed with the firmware (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006#july20) :cry

Extraordinary.

Update, July 23, 2007: Canon USA has asked that we not release EOS-1D Mark III full resolution photos taken with firmware v1.0.9 loaded while Canon in Tokyo examines one of the bodies we used to check out the new firmware. Because what we want more than anything is for the camera's autofocus problems to be resolved, and because an encouraging roadmap for investigating the problems was mapped out in an extended phone call with Canon USA's Chuck Westfall this morning, we've agreed to not put up photos as originally planned for today. We will of course continue to write about EOS-1D Mark III autofocus when there is news to share.

[S. Horton]

Interesting thread on another forum; shot 1DMKIIN vs. MKIII head to head.

FWIW

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=352061

[kdog]

Extraordinary.
Very cool, actually. They're taking his findings seriously. :thumb

[Ric Grupe]

Well, Rod G. ain't impressed with the firmware (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006#july20) :cry

I'll be sitting back :lurk watching this drama unfold and waiting on what Nikon does by the end of the year. When all the dust settles I'll be making a decision.

Actually the firmware took care of what it was supposed to. People are dissappointed that it did not address all the issues.

Like you Harry, I'm waiting....and in no hurry. I want this camera (bad).

I doubt that these focusing issues would have that much impact on the type of shooting I do. Not very often do I have a bird coming towards me! :D

[wxwax]

Interesting thread on another forum; shot 1DMKIIN vs. MKIII head to head.

FWIW

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=352061

Does it seem right that you should have to mess with custom functions to tell the autofocus you're shooting a static subject versus a moving one?

Not to me. In a football game, I shoot both, can't be futzing around with cf settings.

He later added a comment that those BIF settings don't work so well for relatively static animals / birds, so he uses a different CFn combination for such shots. He has these programmed in as custom sets so it is easy to switch between them.

This isn't something I'd want my camera to expect.

[ian408]

This isn't something I'd want my camera to expect.

That and having to customize the lens selection for AF to make it more exact...

[S. Horton]

@wx et al - Recheck that POTN thread; several people are returning the MKIII. The point there is that the camera should not require special handling; something's wrong, and until Canon gets it fixed many, many people are waiting and several are returning the camera for refunds.

[patch29]

Canon has released firmware v1.1.0 for the EOS-1D Mark III.

Source (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8741-9060).

[kdog]

Canon has released firmware v1.1.0 for the EOS-1D Mark III.

Source (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8741-9060).

No new autofocus fixes in this patch. It contains the single small improvement they made in v1.0.9 which was released on 7/20. That patch was reviewed and panned Rob Galbraith here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9006#july20).

Regards,
-joel

[S. Horton]

Canon pro tips on the Mark III setup and sensitivity.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/technical/mark_iii_af.do

[PrescottPhotog]

Canon pro tips on the Mark III setup and sensitivity.

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/technical/mark_iii_af.do

Hi Guys,

Great thread, thanks for starting it Harry.

Patch and Sam, thanks for the links. Even though I haven't been having any AF problems 1.1.0 cleared up two issues right off the bat for me. Plus Sam's link gave me some great insight because most of what I shoot is BIF so now I can start experimenting with the CF's.

My first issue was that my LCD was very blurry. Compared to my 400D it was like it was fogged up. Not any more, fixed and sharp.

Also, my joystick (on and off lever) didn't differentiate between "on" and the 2nd position so some functions worked on both setting when the manual said they should only have worked on the 2nd setting.. Cleared that up too.

Sam, the link to the custom functions was great (IMHO) because it gave a lot more info than the manual and gave Canon's reasoning behind the functions and settings.. plus examples. I think this will be very helpful to a lot of people and I have already sent it off to 3 other friends with M3's.

There aren't any 3rd party books out yet and I feel, just like computer books, the first ones on the shelves will be the ones rushed to print and won't address a lot of issues that are popping up. So all that is available so far are these forum posts with links and a lot of experimenting in the field.

I have been watching the Canon site and the firmware update still isn't posted on the CanonUSA.com site so even though I knew it was coming out I couldn't find it. The day after it was posted here Canon sent out and email with the link to the update but by then I had it loaded and ready to go.

Anyway.. just thought I would give you my thoughts. Thanks again and keep the thread going, it is very insightful even though I'm not having many problems.

[patch29]

Rob Galbraith has updated his Mark III autofocus article (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8742-9063).

[IcemanUK]

Rob Galbraith has updated his Mark III autofocus article (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8742-9063).

I just want to add a thank you for this thread. I am in the process of upgrading my DSLR body and, whilst I still think that the MKIII is the right option, I think that I'm going to hold off buying one until this issue has been sorted.

The updates here on the thread are a good way of keeping track of this in one place.

Cheers!

[Nimai]

Can anyone out there with more insight or knowledge than I give some idea if these auto-focus issues are firmware fixeable? I read about people waiting-and-seeing as if Canon might release a new version of the body itself, not just a firmware fix.

[BBones]

hmmmm....while I want to upgrade to the 1D Mark III I think I may have to wait. I am long overdue for an upgrade from my 1D Mark II (still very happy with it) and prices have dropped on the N version of it that does not have the focus issues. With my bread and butter being motorcycle racing I need spot on and fast autofocus

[ian408]

Anybody know what's going on with availability?

[ziggy53]

Anybody know what's going on with availability?

I believe Canon stopped shipping these cameras pending an investigation of the nature and extent of the complaints voiced specific to the motion-focus issues (and potentially other focus related issues). I expect to hear some kind of published response and then some sort of resolution. I have not heard anything about what that resolution could be, but Canon has a lot banking on the success of this camera.

I find it odd that some folks are very happy with the camera and continue to produce apparently excellent work. This could be a supplier issue or a QC issue or ... you name it.

[ian408]

I find it odd that some folks are very happy with the camera and continue to produce apparently excellent work. This could be a supplier issue or a QC issue or ... you name it.

Let's hope it gets resolved soon. Especially since the mk IIn has been discontinued...

[Harryb]

The saga continues (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-8742-9089).

[ian408]

They must be feeling good about 1.1.1. They've apparently started shipping
bodies again...I got mine yesterday.

[David_S85]

They must be feeling good about 1.1.1. They've apparently started shipping
bodies again...I got mine yesterday.

:clap :clap

[ian408]

So I should add that overall, the build quality is good. And the best part, the
body is MUCH lighter than the mkII. Comfy to hang onto and I'm just getting
to read the manual--I'm a tad bit overwelmed to say the least.

Owning a mkII made it easy to at least get out and start shooting--at least
until I finish my reading assignment :D

More later but I did post my first mkIII shot today :thumb

[ziggy53]

They must be feeling good about 1.1.1. They've apparently started shipping
bodies again...I got mine yesterday.

Remembering that some folks were getting good results without the new firmware, I think there could be other variables involved.

It is encouraging that cameras are getting into the pipeline again. Congratulations on yours! :thumb

[ian408]

Congratulations on yours! :thumb

Thanks Ziggy!

[Harryb]

They must be feeling good about 1.1.1. They've apparently started shipping
bodies again...I got mine yesterday.

Congrats Ian. Its always fun to get a new camera.

Maybe we can con Andy into getting us together for a shoot-off when I get my D3. :evil

[ian408]

Congrats Ian. Its always fun to get a new camera.

Maybe we can con Andy into getting us together for a shoot-off when I get my D3. :evil

I think we need to do that. Really I do :evil

Oh Andy?

[Harryb]

I think we need to do that. Really I do :evil

Oh Andy?

Some quiet, out-of-the-way place like......mmmmmm......:dunno

Vegas!!!!! :ivar :slurp :beer :smile6

Would be perfect, lots of night shot ops, you have the desert for landscapes, and I know a few places for "wildlife" shooting also. :thumb

[ian408]

Some quiet, out-of-the-way place like......mmmmmm......:dunno

Vegas!!!!! :ivar :slurp :beer :smile6

Would be perfect, lots of night shot ops, you have the desert for landscapes, and I know a few places for "wildlife" shooting also. :thumb

I think you're on to something...:thumb

[raptorcaptor]

Nope, Fabs is aware of the new focus-assist points.

Hey, I haven't switched and probably won't. Any current advantage (a dubious one if there are focusing issues) may be temporary. Maybe the focusing issues Rod G experienced weren't due to a pre-production camera. That's why I'm waiting till the end of the year. Even if I get the Mark III I'll probably be hanging on to my Nikon gear.

Don't forget when I bought my first DSLR I went with the Nikon D100 because of the 10D's focusing issues.

You have a Canon 600 F4 lying around?

[ziggy53]

Here is a working sports pro that claims he is "not" having significant problems with his Canon 1D MKIII:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=993

[ian408]

Here is a working sports pro that claims he is "not" having significant problems with his Canon 1D MKIII:

http://www.sportsshooter.com/members.html?id=993

I'm not having a problem w/mine. Either cross or (more or less) straight on.

[ziggy53]

I'm not having a problem w/mine. Either cross or (more or less) straight on.

Awfully good to hear!

[Thusie]

Got my MK3 Monday love it. Plays much better with the 300f2.8L than the 30D. Have use the 1.4 and 2X TC and tried them stacked. Stacked I needed to pre-focus to get in the ballpark than the AF locked on quick (was in not real good light).

Only AF issues I have had have been human induced. My thumb just natually tracks to the * button instead of the AF-On button:D

[ziggy53]

Got my MK3 Monday love it. Plays much better with the 300f2.8L than the 30D. Have use the 1.4 and 2X TC and tried them stacked. Stacked I needed to pre-focus to get in the ballpark than the AF locked on quick (was in not real good light).

Only AF issues I have had have been human induced. My thumb just natually tracks to the * button instead of the AF-On button:D

Fantastic! :clap

[Harryb]

Very interesting thread (http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112118) by one the senior technical editor on Naturescapes.

[kdog]

Very interesting thread (http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112118) by one the senior technical editor on Naturescapes.

Thanks for the link.

As a software engineer originally trained in electronics, I find EJ's analysis very compelling. Too bad he's taking so much flak for it.

-joel

[ian408]

Very interesting thread (http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112118) by one the senior technical editor on Naturescapes.

I think I've said something similar before. Not to the same level of detail.
Personally, I think he's more right than wrong.

[Thusie]

Thanks for the link.

As a software engineer originally trained in electronics, I find EJ's analysis very compelling. Too bad he's taking so much flak for it.

-joel

I agree 100% Joel. The M3 has taken on a life of its own with the flaming and flat out nastiness at unbelieveable levels. A buyer beware situation,? certainly.

[S. Horton]

Very interesting thread (http://www.naturescapes.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=112118) by one the senior technical editor on Naturescapes.

Great link, thx.

I think he did a nice bit of analysis there.

That camera is too expensive to have any issue like that. I wonder if Nikon has the issue................ :dunno <joke>

[ziggy53]

I note that a number of the larger sources are now (again) listing the Canon 1D MKIII as "In Stock". Let's hope that Canon identified and corrected whatever problems existed in the previous batches of that camera.

Has anyone seen anything definitive?

[John Mueller]

After 14,000 shots, the issue is minimal.
Only under certain circumstances will it miss focus and some of it is me:D

[kdog]

After 14,000 shots, the issue is minimal.
Only under certain circumstances will it miss focus and some of it is me:D

John, how does the Mark III compare to the Mark IIn in your experience with regards to AF tracking, as well as any other metrics you wish to compare? Was it worth the switch?

Thanks,
-joel

[John Mueller]

John, how does the Mark III compare to the Mark IIn in your experience with regards to AF tracking, as well as any other metrics you wish to compare? Was it worth the switch?

Thanks,
-joel
The MK3 blows the MK2 and N away.
I was never really happy with the 2,with the N, files were a lot sharper out of camera.
I'm not a big BIF shooter so I can't compare any of the cams.
Static shots in AI center point and ring of fire are almost always spot on.
Using ISO 1600-2500 look just as good as the N at 400-800.This is a tremendous help when shooting with a 600+1.4X in early morning light or late afternoon:wink
Mirror slap seems a lot softer as I think it helps when using long lenses.The N would shake like crazy.
No more 2 finger settings:D

[kdog]

Sounds really good, John. Thanks for the info. :thumb

-joel

The MK3 blows the MK2 and N away.
I was never really happy with the 2,with the N, files were a lot sharper out of camera.
I'm not a big BIF shooter so I can't compare any of the cams.
Static shots in AI center point and ring of fire are almost always spot on.
Using ISO 1600-2500 look just as good as the N at 400-800.This is a tremendous help when shooting with a 600+1.4X in early morning light or late afternoon:wink
Mirror slap seems a lot softer as I think it helps when using long lenses.The N would shake like crazy.
No more 2 finger settings:D

[Harryb]

The latest from Rod (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8740-9068-9093).