Messed up at prom pictures and need help! [Sitemap]

hesaias

Apr-25-2007, 12:05 PM

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/2302389

This is a good tutorial you can use to help. If I were you, I would remind the father he requested the shots against your advice if he complained or balked at them, that or charge him for the excessive retouching you will have to do to fix them.

Always shoot RAW when you are doing shots for a job. It gives you much more leeway in postprocessing.

As far as fill flash, ETTL will really blast the highlites, so you probably wanna go manual and start at the lowest setting and ease it up until you get a good balance.

If you would like, I can see if I can bring the shadows up some in CS2, just let me know. I am by no means a PS expert, but I can give you a hand.
I think the shots are fixable, it may just take a bit of work.

erikadorie

Apr-25-2007, 12:59 PM

How do I shoot in RAW? I'm sorry I just got my digital camera in September and I'm learning everyday still. Can you also tell me why it's better and gives more leeway? I am curious to the reasons. It would be great if you did some touch ups! Thanks

Thank you for the link, it's great!!!

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/2302389

This is a good tutorial you can use to help. If I were you, I would remind the father he requested the shots against your advice if he complained or balked at them, that or charge him for the excessive retouching you will have to do to fix them.

Always shoot RAW when you are doing shots for a job. It gives you much more leeway in postprocessing.

As far as fill flash, ETTL will really blast the highlites, so you probably wanna go manual and start at the lowest setting and ease it up until you get a good balance.

If you would like, I can see if I can bring the shadows up some in CS2, just let me know. I am by no means a PS expert, but I can give you a hand.
I think the shots are fixable, it may just take a bit of work.

gmonkeh

Apr-25-2007, 02:39 PM

Why don't you post a couple of higher res images without the watermarks and I'll give it a go.

erikadorie

Apr-25-2007, 03:07 PM

How do I make them higher res? I think I've taken the watermark off but I'll double check. Thanks

Why don't you post a couple of higher res images without the watermarks and I'll give it a go.

SitterS

Apr-25-2007, 03:09 PM

One of the biggest advantages for me shooting RAW instead of JPEG is it allows me to adjust my exposure and white balance if I am off. WB is something I still struggle with sometimes. Much better with it when I take the time to set my custom WB using a grey card but that does not happen often. My exposure is much better than it use to be as I have learned to watch my histogram but it is still nice to be able to adjust if you are off.

I was a little reluctant to go from JPEG to RAW but really it is not a big deal. Give it a try:thumb

Shane

saurora

Apr-25-2007, 03:30 PM

brandofamily

Apr-25-2007, 04:04 PM

I took some pictures for prom. The dad was continually wanting them to stand in the sunlight causing shadows across their faces. I kept trying to graciously put them in the shade but after awhile I gave up on trying to be polite. I'm now stuck with several terrible exposures that I haven't learned how to fix. Can some people please take a look and edit these and teach me what I can do to fix the rest of them? Thanks so much. The pictures are located in my smugmug website. Here's the link.

http://erikadorie.smugmug.com/gallery/2760010
I use NIkon gear, not sure what you are using, but I process my RAW files using Nikon Capture 4 and it does a real nice job bringing up the shadows w/ a feature called d-lighting. If you save your files as TIFF, assuming your shooting Canon, you can download a trail version from Nikon USA and give it a try...

Here's my quick and dirty edit...

http://brandolinoimaging.smugmug.com/photos/146916413-M.jpg

Seneca

Apr-25-2007, 06:18 PM

I always shoot RAW. You will never have to worry about controling your WB again.

I can try and work on a couple for you...but I need a better link than what you have provided.

Remember as a photographer you are in command. I realize the dad suggested you shoot those picture the way he wanted...but ultimately, you are the one with the camera...and just tell him you believe that to not be a good ideal.

I hate people who are so bossy and I realize you were just trying to be polite...but just next time tell them..."Ummm can we talk...listen....I really don't think this is a good idea...let me take a couple and show you why"...

Scott_Quier

Apr-25-2007, 06:31 PM

This is one of my all-time photographic pet peeves having someone else attempting to be in charge of directing how people pose or telling them to "smile" when I am hoping for a more natural expression.

No fooling. This is something that I am starting to have to deal with.

I would have politely told him the sun creates ugly shadows requiring costly post-processing and let it go at that . Turn a deaf ear if necessary. I been thinking of using something very similar to this. In addition, how about, "I'm going to finish up here, doing the photos the way I was taught and know will work and then we will do them your way as well. Extra exposures don't cost me anything so we'll do it both ways. OK?"

Of course, Dad is going to come back with something about time running short.... You just can't win!:dunno

brandofamily

Apr-25-2007, 07:03 PM

Just go to the gallery, view original, right click and save as....

erikadorie

Apr-25-2007, 09:08 PM

How do I give you a better link?

So for everyone else's comments I should just take charge because I really do know what I"m doing. Funny to hear when I got to work that the girl in the yellow said her dad developed some of the pictures that he took. First thing she mentioned was how they were squinty eyed in those same shots!!! Next time I'll just listen to myself! Thanks for the polite suggestions.

I always shoot RAW. You will never have to worry about controling your WB again.

I can try and work on a couple for you...but I need a better link than what you have provided.

Remember as a photographer you are in command. I realize the dad suggested you shoot those picture the way he wanted...but ultimately, you are the one with the camera...and just tell him you believe that to not be a good ideal.

I hate people who are so bossy and I realize you were just trying to be polite...but just next time tell them..."Ummm can we talk...listen....I really don't think this is a good idea...let me take a couple and show you why"...

Swartzy

Apr-26-2007, 07:13 AM

I did a few quick things here but with the originals I'd spend a bit more time. I'd lower the overall exposure on the background than done here (on my version) for a better all around look.

Here's the two..first being your original:

http://Swartzy.smugmug.com/photos/147069403-L.jpg

http://Swartzy.smugmug.com/photos/147069413-L.jpg

Scott_Quier

Apr-26-2007, 08:46 AM

Swartzy,

Nice job.:thumb You've supplied fish for a day. How about teaching us how to fish?

Mike02

Apr-26-2007, 09:45 AM

Answer; Never listen to the dad! Especially when he's not a photographer! lol.

Swartzy

Apr-26-2007, 09:53 AM

Swartzy,

Nice job.:thumb You've supplied fish for a day. How about teaching us how to fish?

Ok....here is the quick and dirty...I'll explain below the screen shot

http://Swartzy.smugmug.com/photos/147097948-L.jpg

Since I wanted the background a bit richer I did a couple layer masks and painted those back in. Now for the explanation:

There are numerous ways around underexposed areas of photos as I'm sure you all know. One simple way is to duplicate the original layer and change the mode to screen...adjust the opacity or create a layer mask, focusing on the areas you want lighter and paint those in. You can use a 100% opacity on the brush and then lessen the opacity of the layer or change the opacity of the brush or...do both. I typically will do both as the look reveals itself as it progresses.

On this particular shot, because of the uneveness of highlights/shadows/background, I ran an action called Sheri's classic highlight/shadow. You can find this on Action Central (the website). Many times this action will give an overall pinkish hue to the photo but there are things that can be done for that. What we want is the pop without the shot looking superficial.

Here, I ran the action, then adjusted the opacity of those individual layers (highlight/shadow). Then I added a curves layer and changed the mode to Luminocity. Adjusting the opacity on the curves layer along with pushing the curve up just a tad. I then added a mask to the curves layer and painted in the background....when you add a mask, it by default is white..so I chose the letter "D" (to make my foreground and background black & white respectively) then made sure the foreground color was black (hitting "X" will toggle these). Choose "B" for brush then start painting all the areas you don't want the curves layer to affect.

Then as you see above, the same method was applied to the shadows layer. On this layer's mask, I used a 45% opacity brush strength so it wouldn't be over done. You can go over areas again to repeat the process which will allow the incremental adjustment to your liking.

Like I mentioned.....if I were to work on these for clients, I'd have the original and try a couple techniques comparing side by side. I do this for B&W conversions as well. This way the eye has a comparison to work with. Since I'm using PS7 (yea, I know) those wonderful features of CS2 (shadow/highlight filter) aren't available for my post work..so, went to plan "B" and run actions as necessary. Some I create..some someone else has made readily available.

This is just one example that may or may not work for another shot..but this approach is typically my first attempt at those pesky underexposed portraits.

brandofamily

Apr-26-2007, 10:16 AM

Never heard back, how'd I do w/ my attempt using NC4? (Post #10)

erikadorie

Apr-26-2007, 12:36 PM

You did a really good job thank you. I guess I didn't realize that I was supposed to respond (Sorry I'm still pretty new at all this!) I'd like to give it a try myself. Where can I download that trial at?

I use NIkon gear, not sure what you are using, but I process my RAW files using Nikon Capture 4 and it does a real nice job bringing up the shadows w/ a feature called d-lighting. If you save your files as TIFF, assuming your shooting Canon, you can download a trail version from Nikon USA and give it a try...

Here's my quick and dirty edit...

http://brandolinoimaging.smugmug.com/photos/146916413-M.jpg

dragon300zx

Apr-26-2007, 01:20 PM

Erika,

Please understand that although what I am about to say may come off rude, I have no intention of being rude. I say what I say out of hoping it will help you fly and not fail like many others have.

I think you really need to take a step back and study photography, and this industry as well before telling people you're a pro, and trying to start a photography business. Your comments alone in this thread tell us you don't know what you need to, to be trying to do what you are doing.

"You must learn to walk before you can run"

Please don't doom yourself to failure, and put a smudge on "photography" in general by charging to do something you aren't qualified for. If this is what you love and want to do, great. But learn about it and get qualified to do it first. Just having a camera doesn't mean you are a pro. Especially if you don't know how to put the camera into raw, properly use fill flash, do your own photo processing, tell the customer the right way to setup a photo, etc.

You say you really do know what you're doing but from what you have said you really don't sound like you know your equipment, your software, or your business.

I'm sorry to be harsh but if you don't go into this knowing the basics, knowing your gear, knowing what you need to do, then you will most likely fail, and if you don't you will struggle and hurt your reputation along the way. That isn't the right way to build a business, career, or life.

The good news is that you're in the right place to learn more about photography and we're all glad to help. Really.

:dragon

mdaugher1811

Apr-26-2007, 01:27 PM

Erika,

I thought I would give it a quick try using PS CS3. Recovering shadows and hightlights is always interesting....it's an tradeoff between time and value.:D

Andy

Apr-26-2007, 01:36 PM

I am correcting all of these shots for you, standby, I'll have a gallery uploaded soon.

Some great advice in this thread - take all of it....

brandofamily

Apr-26-2007, 01:51 PM

You did a really good job thank you. I guess I didn't realize that I was supposed to respond (Sorry I'm still pretty new at all this!) I'd like to give it a try myself. Where can I download that trial at?
You can find NIkon Capture at
http://support.nikontech.com/cgi-bin/nikonusa.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=61

30 day trial...

Andy

Apr-26-2007, 02:04 PM

The dad was continually wanting them to stand in the sunlight causing shadows across their faces. I kept trying to

Rule #1 - YOU are the photogapher. YOU make the decisions.

Andy

Apr-26-2007, 02:18 PM

I am correcting all of these shots for you, standby, I'll have a gallery uploaded soon.

Some great advice in this thread - take all of it....
I ran them through I2E, they're better but still not great
http://erikadorie.smugmug.com/gallery/2765544#147155293

Remember, photography is about light. Quality of light. If nature's not giving it to you, you have to control it. There's really no postprocessing that can make these photos "good," only less "bad" and I hope you'll take this constructively...

Holler with questions! We will all be here for you.

erikadorie

Apr-26-2007, 03:01 PM

I understand what you are saying. I do need to learn my equipment better, but I am on the internet reading forums everyday, taking my camera as often as I can. I have not told anyone that I'm a pro. I simply say I am a freelancer. I am not going to go to school for something like this, I'm sorry. I do realize that people that do big into this field have all kinds of training and schooling, but that's not what I'm looking for. I'm looking to progress. I like to take pictures. I enjoy it alot. Most of the work I have done has been for family and friends and for my practice. I think you are judging me a little under what I should be judged. I'm one of those kids that jumps into a sport knowing little about it, but wins the coaches heart because of his effort and strife to improve. I'm not walking around saying I know it all. Hence as you said I'm here searching, reading, asking, doing. To me that's the most important part.....doing. I'm not sitting back and looking at other websites hoping to be set up like that one day I'm out there getting set up! I know my reply is going to sound like a fight back, but I'm defending myself and what I believe. I'm trying hard and I appreciate your comment, beause it's only going to make me better. And I'm sorry I won't take a step back only steps forward. What progress would I be making with backwards steps?

Erika,

Please understand that although what I am about to say may come off rude, I have no intention of being rude. I say what I say out of hoping it will help you fly and not fail like many others have.

I think you really need to take a step back and study photography, and this industry as well before telling people you're a pro, and trying to start a photography business. Your comments alone in this thread tell us you don't know what you need to, to be trying to do what you are doing.

"You must learn to walk before you can run"

Please don't doom yourself to failure, and put a smudge on "photography" in general by charging to do something you aren't qualified for. If this is what you love and want to do, great. But learn about it and get qualified to do it first. Just having a camera doesn't mean you are a pro. Especially if you don't know how to put the camera into raw, properly use fill flash, do your own photo processing, tell the customer the right way to setup a photo, etc.

You say you really do know what you're doing but from what you have said you really don't sound like you know your equipment, your software, or your business.

I'm sorry to be harsh but if you don't go into this knowing the basics, knowing your gear, knowing what you need to do, then you will most likely fail, and if you don't you will struggle and hurt your reputation along the way. That isn't the right way to build a business, career, or life.

The good news is that you're in the right place to learn more about photography and we're all glad to help. Really.

:dragon

hesaias

Apr-26-2007, 03:16 PM

Erika
I will do some work on your shots following the steps on that tutorial and upload them for you. I have found using layers is an incredible help, as well as an easy one once you understand the concept. Plug-ins are nice, but you can do just about any retouching without them. There is a good one by extensis for good midlevel photo fixing.

As far as the "business", you cannot win either way by trying to please everyone, so please yourself. Every word in this thread is true, but the more you shoot, the better you get. Shoot every type of photo, sports (little league is always fun) nature, people, places etc, and experiment. See what works and what does not work.

A good step I am going to take is a community college class in digital photography. Less the $200 and not very long. If I learn one good tip, its worth it.

As far as selling your work, if you are not happy with the shot, do not sell it, no matter how they beg. That shot is associated with your name, and thus your work. You know what looks good and what does not. I do not even show the shots I don't like to anyone. I edit them and experiment with them, but if I am not happy with the shot, nobody ever sees it. I save it for my own benefit though.

take a gander through your booklet that came with your camera and play around with the settings. You will learn it pretty fast. Shoot on Apperature priority or manual. That can be daunting, but if you understand that the smaller the apperature NUMBER is, the more light you get AND the shallower the depth of feild is, and thus you can shoot with a faster shutter speed, it won't take long until you are comfortable shooting excluisively like that.

Don't forget, take pictures for the joy of doing it.

dogwood

Apr-26-2007, 03:32 PM

This is one of my all-time photographic pet peeves having someone else attempting to be in charge of directing how people pose or telling them to "smile" when I am hoping for a more natural expression. Hopefully you will give some thought as to how to respond the next time this happens because it will happen over and over. I had an instructor who once said "Never take a photograph that looks bad through the lens and hope that miraculously it will somehow turn out better..........it isn't going to happen." I would have politely told him the sun creates ugly shadows requiring costly post-processing and let it go at that . Turn a deaf ear if necessary. You can always let him know your equipment (lens and flash) are designed to overcome and enhance shots taken in the shade. Better luck next time, because you don't want to be spending this much time processing and the client will probably blame you for not knowing what you are doing. :rolleyes
:agree This is something you'll deal with over and over and over with clients. The strategy I use is to shoot it the way they want, but I also make sure to shoot it the way I know will look best. Nine times out of ten, when they see your proofs, they'll choose the one you knew would work best. And they won't realize the crappy shots were their suggestions either-- as the late Kurt Vonnegutt wrote-- "so it goes".

dragon300zx

Apr-26-2007, 03:34 PM

I understand what you are saying. And I'm sorry I won't take a step back only steps forward. What progress would I be making with backwards steps?

I'm not saying stop, I'm not saying retreat. I'm saying slow it down, stop trying to market it as a business, start shooting as much as you can to learn until you can be a business and a real freelancer. You may not understand it now but if you don't it will make your life harder. Believe me I know I have had my own company before and I did it your way and it was nothing but a problem. I have my own company now, doing it the other way (slowly, following the right steps, and others advice) and I promise you I am doing way better with this method than I was when I tried the brute force method.

BeachBill

Apr-26-2007, 04:03 PM

I have not told anyone that I'm a pro. I simply say I am a freelancer.

I can't speak for others, but when I hear "freelancer" that pretty much means you are in the business and are therefore assumed to be a pro.

erikadorie

Apr-26-2007, 05:02 PM

This will be my last time to this post. For anyone interested I will continue to keep shooting and I am going to keep on doing what I am doing simply because it is working for me. I don't care about becoming a "BIG" photographer. I simply want to target to portraits and small weddings in the local area. Photography is something I enjoy and isn't something I want to pursue a 'career' in. I want to be able to have children and still be able to work. This method would allow me to work at home. I don't want a career that is going to take me away from my future family. I believe that I am doing a great job. I do know that I still need tons of practice. I currently have a friend that has been in the wedding business only to quit and shoot sports for our college that I counsel with often. He critiques me and teaches me new things all the time. I know that I need to learn the functions of my camera better. That is why I was here in the first place. I am going to stick around and keep on keepin on though. I'm not going to stop or slow down, that's silly in my opinon. I enjoy my life, it's great, and having a little trouble down the road sounds great. I'll learn and grow from it when the time comes. Life challenges are why we're here to progress, which is what I plan on doing. Thank you everyone for all the advice and for keeping me going.

I'm not saying stop, I'm not saying retreat. I'm saying slow it down, stop trying to market it as a business, start shooting as much as you can to learn until you can be a business and a real freelancer. You may not understand it now but if you don't it will make your life harder. Believe me I know I have had my own company before and I did it your way and it was nothing but a problem. I have my own company now, doing it the other way (slowly, following the right steps, and others advice) and I promise you I am doing way better with this method than I was when I tried the brute force method.

Andy

Apr-26-2007, 05:04 PM

This will be my last time to this post.
Boy I sure hope not!

DavidTO

Apr-26-2007, 05:08 PM

Erika,

That's a real shame that you're taking off like that. You've gotten a lot of great help, sympathy and feedback here. All of it with the intent of being helpful. I hope you stay.

This will be my last time to this post. For anyone interested I will continue to keep shooting and I am going to keep on doing what I am doing simply because it is working for me. I don't care about becoming a "BIG" photographer. I simply want to target to portraits and small weddings in the local area. Photography is something I enjoy and isn't something I want to pursue a 'career' in. I want to be able to have children and still be able to work. This method would allow me to work at home. I don't want a career that is going to take me away from my future family. I believe that I am doing a great job. I do know that I still need tons of practice. I currently have a friend that has been in the wedding business only to quit and shoot sports for our college that I counsel with often. He critiques me and teaches me new things all the time. I know that I need to learn the functions of my camera better. That is why I was here in the first place. I am going to stick around and keep on keepin on though. I'm not going to stop or slow down, that's silly in my opinon. I enjoy my life, it's great, and having a little trouble down the road sounds great. I'll learn and grow from it when the time comes. Life challenges are why we're here to progress, which is what I plan on doing. Thank you everyone for all the advice and for keeping me going.

saurora

Apr-26-2007, 05:27 PM

Erika we support whatever kind of photographer you wish to be! We are all just passionate about photography and wanted to help you avoid the pitfalls if you were heading into a business venture. Some of us may have misinterpreted your photographic vision. Due to your recent thread in the business forum, I think a lot of us thought you wanted to "go pro" and as Bill mentioned, telling people you are a freelancer suggests professional versus hobbiest. Whatever, we hope you will stick around and keep throwing out the questions and sharing your adventures in photography with us. :D

erikadorie

Apr-26-2007, 05:54 PM

I decided to check back once to make sure I wrote how I wanted that to sound, and I'm glad I did because I didn't mean I wasn't sticking around this forum I just meant this one thread. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I just didn't want to keep dragging this out because it wouldn't be productive for me at this point. I will continue to hang around the dgrin forum though! You'll still see me around!

BeachBill

Apr-26-2007, 05:59 PM

I will continue to hang around the dgrin forum though! You'll still see me around!

Excellent!

I would suggest checking out the Technique section here. Lots of good useful information there to help us all grow!

dragon300zx

Apr-26-2007, 07:00 PM

I'm sorry you took what I was saying as anything more than someone who has been there offering advice on how to make things easier and more enjoyable for yourself. :dunno

Seneca

Apr-26-2007, 09:05 PM

Erica...don't give up! I've been shooting for many years and there are many things that go with just pointing, clicking and seeing your results. Photography from some...come easy...others can develop this art by lots of practice, and lots of shooting.

Whatever was said here, don't be discouraged...keep on with your passion. I don't always agree with people here...but I will say that many of these forums...and I now belong to about 6 of them (and some of them I pay to be on their site)...have taught me so much about the Art of Photography. Some people can not only be honest...but also brutually honest. I have learned not to take it personal...I do fall...but I pick myself back up and try and find how I can make my art look better for next time.

I think you've learned that lighting is a major factor with these pictures. Remember this...LIGHTING IS EVERTHING IN YOUR PICTURES. Even when the sun is shining...use a flash! It's never a good idea to shoot outside in the bright hours of the sun...either do it in the early morning...or around 6:00 p.m.

But nonetheless...just keep shooting...even if this is not going to be a career. I think you have tons of potential...just keep at it...and like I said, don't be discouraged after reading some of these replies..

Take care...and all the best to you.:thumb Sorry I didn't help with the pictures...but ironically...I've been in a photography class the past 5 days.

Seneca

frg

Apr-27-2007, 12:59 AM

Hi Erica....

Had a look at your web page, nice work.... :clap

flatheadfisher

Apr-28-2007, 07:34 AM

I ran them through I2E, they're better but still not great
http://erikadorie.smugmug.com/gallery/2765544#147155293

Remember, photography is about light. Quality of light. If nature's not giving it to you, you have to control it. There's really no postprocessing that can make these photos "good," only less "bad" and I hope you'll take this constructively...

Holler with questions! We will all be here for you.

Andy, I really enjoyed seeing your work. I knew postprocessing could make a big difference but I didn't realize how much of a difference it could make. I have only though about learning how to use postprocessing software. You have inspired me to actually do it. Thanks.

Zoom Raider

Apr-28-2007, 11:05 AM

I took some pictures for prom. The dad was continually wanting them to stand in the sunlight causing shadows across their faces. I kept trying to graciously put them in the shade but after awhile I gave up on trying to be polite. I'm now stuck with several terrible exposures that I haven't learned how to fix. Can some people please take a look and edit these and teach me what I can do to fix the rest of them? Thanks so much. The pictures are located in my smugmug website. Here's the link.

http://erikadorie.smugmug.com/gallery/2760010

I haven't had time to read all the posts in here to see if anyone fixed them for ya,
but if you're trying to rid the wording on the horizontally tilted pictures - well tilting them vertically is easy,
but the only thing I know so far that can get rid of the words is ImageDoctor by AlienSkin.
If ridding words and images can be done with PS7 or other photo-editors, let me know how,`cos I can't figure it out.:scratch

Bountyphotographer

Apr-28-2007, 01:41 PM

I think that erikadorie (http://www.dgrin.com/member.php?u=17253) vbmenu_register("postmenu_538618", true); took it the wrong way, which is a pity.
This site is here to help people and unfortunately
not all the feedbacks a praising one's good work. This is actually a good thing, for this is pretty much the best way of learning. Often time other people can see right away your mistake. I have to say that when one has a site displaying his/her work and asking for advices, that person should be a bit more knowledgable with the equipment used for the shooting. Now saying that it is ok to ask even silly question (I 'm pretty good a that) but being humble is still the best skill that anyone can ever wish to have. I am pretty sure that erikadorie (http://www.dgrin.com/member.php?u=17253) vbmenu_register("postmenu_538618", true); will see it differently in the near (or not so near ) future. For the time being asking question on this forum goes both way and the answer aren't always what one might expect, but what a heck this is all about learning and enjoying photography.
The fact of the matter is that I learned a a bit more just reading this thread started by erikadorie (http://www.dgrin.com/member.php?u=17253) vbmenu_register("postmenu_538618", true); . So in a way thank you

BP