Another n00b looking for advice...

[ilmostro]

:wave Hi gang! Looks like all the usual suspects are here and the photo n00b has arrived.

I figured I'd take my question to the pros. After a hard life the ol' Kodak DX4900 is on it's last legs and I need a replacement. I poked around here, dpreview, Best Buy and the possibilities are endless.

I'm looking for a worthy replacement for the old box. Something smallish, tough, point and shoot and relitively simple that takes great photos.

What's the hot ticket these days? :ear

[cmr164]

:wave Hi gang! Looks like all the usual suspects are here and the photo n00b has arrived.

I figured I'd take my question to the pros. After a hard life the ol' Kodak DX4900 is on it's last legs and I need a replacement. I poked around here, dpreview, Best Buy and the possibilities are endless.

I'm looking for a worthy replacement for the old box. Something smallish, tough, point and shoot and relitively simple that takes great photos.

What's the hot ticket these days? :ear Well you can practically close your eyes and point at a catalog these days so lets try to narrow it down with a couple of questions.

1. What is your happy-camper price.
2. What is your absolute highest no-matter-how-good price?
3. What is the size you commonly print photos.
4. What is the largest size you have ever printed photos.
5. You asked for point and shoot, do you use any manual controls now?
6. Shirt pocket size or pouch size?

A quick recommend without knowing any of the answers:

The DiMAGE X50 (http://www.adorama.com/IMNDX50.html) is 5mp, shoots and zooms without protruding a lens, fits in a shirt pocket or a back pocket. Makes pretty good 30sec movies and has decent optics for its class. I have used its older generation DiMAGE X for a few years as a backup to my dSLRs or when I am stuck in a tux and can not lug around a big camera. It has stood up to abusive weather, falls, many thousands of miles of motorcycle tank bag vibration.

Yours truly with the Chairman of DoCoMo on the older DiMage X

http://www.iisc.com/dgrin/cannes_075_s.jpg (http://www.iisc.com/pictures/Cannes_Jpn/images/cannes_075.jpg)

Click the image for the 2MP orig. (remember the X50 is 5MP)

[ilmostro]

1. What is your happy-camper price.
2. What is your absolute highest no-matter-how-good price?
3. What is the size you commonly print photos.
4. What is the largest size you have ever printed photos.
5. You asked for point and shoot, do you use any manual controls now?
6. Shirt pocket size or pouch size?
Thanks CMR!

1) Happy camper would be $250
2) Highest would be around $450
3) I don't usually print photos.
4) I have done a few 8.5 x 11's
5) Not usually. I sometimes screw with the shutter to take pictures at night in low light conditions.
6) Shirt pocket would be nice but pouch size wouldn't ruin the deal. I don't want one that is similar in size and shape to a SLR

[cmr164]

Thanks CMR!

1) Happy camper would be $250
2) Highest would be around $450
3) I don't usually print photos.
4) I have done a few 8.5 x 11's
5) Not usually. I sometimes screw with the shutter to take pictures at night in low light conditions.
6) Shirt pocket would be nice but pouch size wouldn't ruin the deal. I don't want one that is similar in size and shape to a SLR
It sounds like the DiMAGE X50 (http://www.adorama.com/IMNDX50.html) at $329 is a good fit. Did you click the link (http://www.adorama.com/IMNDX50.html) and look at it? The above links point to Adorama and clicking the image below will get you to B&H's page for it. Either vendor are tops in trust reliability and actual shipped price.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/348747.jpg (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=348747&is=REG)


("")

[fish]

:wave Hi gang! Looks like all the usual suspects are here and the photo n00b has arrived. oh fer crissakes...there goes the neighborhood. :huh


What's the hot ticket these days? :ear
http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0001G6U5W.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

[ilmostro]

oh fer crissakes...there goes the neighborhood. :huh
:wave Hi Feeesh! :smooch

[wxwax]

:wave Hiya Mostrodamus, good to see you slumming! The Canon A-series cameras have been very good for a long time, highly regarded. The Canon A 85 might be a good choice. Compact enough, high quality images, sturdy.

Canon has another camera that you might find interesting. although it's at the high end of your price range. It's the Powershot S1 IS. This thing has a 10x zoom that's stabilized. Usually a big ol' zoom like that will really enhance your camera shake. But with IS, the S1 will remove your delirium tremens from the shot and give you that fat zoom, shake free.

The Canon "S" series cameras make OK images, and you really pay a premium for the compactness.

Be sure to let us know what you get. :nod

[ilmostro]

:wave Hiya Waxy! Mmmm... good suggestions. Looks like I'll need to swing by Best Buy again this week. I'll keep you updated! :freaky

[Vhunter]

:wave Hiya Mostrodamus, good to see you slumming! The Canon A-series cameras have been very good for a long time, highly regarded. The Canon A 85 might be a good choice. Compact enough, high quality images, sturdy.

Canon has another camera that you might find interesting. although it's at the high end of your price range. It's the Powershot S1 IS. This thing has a 10x zoom that's stabilized. Usually a big ol' zoom like that will really enhance your camera shake. But with IS, the S1 will remove your delirium tremens from the shot and give you that fat zoom, shake free.

The Canon "S" series cameras make OK images, and you really pay a premium for the compactness.

Be sure to let us know what you get. :nod
---------------------------------------------------------------------

I am interested in a small lightweight camera. My criteria is centered around
what I want to use it for. I would like to take it on several extended bicycle
rides of about 5-600 miles each lasting about a week.

As such, it should be..

1. Tough, resistant to vibrations as it might be rideing in the bike bag.
2. Light weight - lighter the better for tough hills.
3. Resistant to moisture, as I ride in the rain sometimes.
4. 3-5M pixel
5. it would be nice to be able to use standard batterys as we sometimes
camp out on the route for several days, and picking up a pack of 'AA's to
use would be much handyer than having to find AC power to recharge.
6. Point and shoot most of the time, although adjusting settings would be
nice for when there is time to set up for a shot.

I have a Nikkon coolpix 775, but it seems to be a little delicate for the
road or bike trails.

Any insights to a camera that might meet or come close to these requirements would be a big help!

Thanks! Arnie

[patch29]

:wave Hiya Mostrodamus, good to see you slumming! The Canon A-series cameras have been very good for a long time, highly regarded. The Canon A 85 might be a good choice. Compact enough, high quality images, sturdy.

Canon has another camera that you might find interesting. although it's at the high end of your price range. It's the Powershot S1 IS. This thing has a 10x zoom that's stabilized. Usually a big ol' zoom like that will really enhance your camera shake. But with IS, the S1 will remove your delirium tremens from the shot and give you that fat zoom, shake free.

The Canon "S" series cameras make OK images, and you really pay a premium for the compactness.

Be sure to let us know what you get. :nod

I like the Canon series also, be careful though, because the A's and S's mix in different series cameras, S500 vs S70.

PMA is coming up in a couple weeks so a lot of new consumer cameras should be announced. Canon has started with a few. I like the A85. They are replacing it with the A520, find more info here (http://www.dpreview.com/news/0502/05020101canona520.asp) about it. I have the Canon S1. It works very well, but it does not fit in a pocket well, the new A520 is smaller and uses 2 AA batteries vs 4 for the A85. The S1 has a longer lens, but less mpx. I think for what you want the A520 would be great or if you don't want the latest and greatest look for deals on the A85 or other cameras that are being replaced. I would wait until after PMA (2/20-23) to see what is released and if you can find a good deal. The new A520 also switches to SD memory, helping to make it smaller and lighter.

[cmr164]

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I am interested in a small lightweight camera. My criteria is centered around
what I want to use it for. I would like to take it on several extended bicycle
rides of about 5-600 miles each lasting about a week.

As such, it should be..

1. Tough, resistant to vibrations as it might be rideing in the bike bag.
2. Light weight - lighter the better for tough hills.
3. Resistant to moisture, as I ride in the rain sometimes.
4. 3-5M pixel
5. it would be nice to be able to use standard batterys as we sometimes
camp out on the route for several days, and picking up a pack of 'AA's to
use would be much handyer than having to find AC power to recharge.
6. Point and shoot most of the time, although adjusting settings would be
nice for when there is time to set up for a shot.

I have a Nikkon coolpix 775, but it seems to be a little delicate for the
road or bike trails.

Any insights to a camera that might meet or come close to these requirements would be a big help!

Thanks! Arnie
See my recommendation for the Minolta DiMAGE X50 above.
1. My DiMAGE X has suffered through a lot of punishment including 10k or so miles in a vibrating tank bag and a few drops.
2. It is as small and light as they come. I carried mine in my shirt pocket and jeans pockets (front & back) as the usual place
3. It is much better in the weather than most. This is helped a lot by the internal optics that keep the lens from needing to extend even when zooming. The engineering of that is way cool.
4. 5mp
6. The only miss. To keep the size and weight down it uses a proprietary battery.

[Vhunter]

I'll check it out. :thumb

I have several months yet before I "need" to get the camera and I
would like to get as much input :scratch as I can before makeing another purchase.
The first long bike ride is a 600 mile section of the Lewis and Clark trail in June.

I don't want to end up wishing that I had gotten something else a few months down the road..
And there seems to be a great deal to choose from, so all input is welcome!

Thanks! Arnie

P.S. - I don't mean to hijack the thread, but thought what I was asking might apply to the other guy too! :D

[Schockwave]

I have Canon S1 IS, and I like it too, although would have liked more megapixels, but have had good results with it. I chose this one, because you can change the lenses and add filters and because of the zoom lens and the image stabilizer. I have been used to Canon SLR, which has given me excellent pictures, and I would say there are advantages in both products. With the SLR I use slides, I must say.:thumb:wink

[rcompton]

I am also looking to pick up something new: The one thing I haven't had great luck with is how quickly I can take pics... my current cameral takes a long while to write to the CF card, and I can snap off two or three pics and then I have to wait. I have almost year old twins and this has been a large PITA. Is this a function of the media or the camera? I plan to upgrade this week anyway, and have read many times about the Canon A** series (I was looking at the A95, which I can get for $314 at Best Buy, where I have a $100 gift card to use up), so this was my last concern. if it is the media, can anyone recommend a brand to go along with the upcoming camera purchase?

thanks! -Ron

[ridetwistyroads]

Hey 'Mostro! :wave I figure I ought to get crossed over here as well.....

I've had a Canon a80 for about a year and a half, and they're great. I do nothing but abuse it while riding and it has shown no noticable wear. The qualty is beyond what I personally would have expected with a point and shoot, while allowing plenty of manual controlls to wet the tweaker's appitite (you can even get a converter thing to allow filters and such). A cannon a85 or a95 would get a hearty thumbs up from me. :thumb

If'n you'd like samples, have a peek (http://ridetwistyroads.smugmug.com/gallery/345282).

[wxwax]

I am also looking to pick up something new: The one thing I haven't had great luck with is how quickly I can take pics... my current cameral takes a long while to write to the CF card, and I can snap off two or three pics and then I have to wait. I have almost year old twins and this has been a large PITA. Is this a function of the media or the camera? I plan to upgrade this week anyway, and have read many times about the Canon A** series (I was looking at the A95, which I can get for $314 at Best Buy, where I have a $100 gift card to use up), so this was my last concern. if it is the media, can anyone recommend a brand to go along with the upcoming camera purchase?

thanks! -Ron

Hey, look what the cat dragged in! :wave Hiya Ron!

That delay is the camera writing to the flash card. I suspect that most compact cameras have that problem. They have a buffer that stores the images while they're transferred to the flash card. Once the buffer's full, you have to wait. I think the reviews in www.dpreview.com measure the buffer size, I can't remember. :scratch Best of all is to hit a camera store, maybe bring your own flash card, and test the cameras. My G3 hit the buffer limit after about 5 shots, IIRC.

[ian408]

Canon S50. Not bad. It's ridden around in a tank bag, in my pocket (for
that occassional on the bike shot). Still going strong.

Ian

[rcompton]

Hey, look what the cat dragged in! :wave Hiya Ron!

That delay is the camera writing to the flash card. I suspect that most compact cameras have that problem. They have a buffer that stores the images while they're transferred to the flash card. Once the buffer's full, you have to wait. I think the reviews in www.dpreview.com (http://www.dpreview.com/) measure the buffer size, I can't remember. :scratch Best of all is to hit a camera store, maybe bring your own flash card, and test the cameras. My G3 hit the buffer limit after about 5 shots, IIRC.
thanks, Sid. I suspected that was the case, though I recall some discussion a while back about flash card speeds or something. I am going to take the long way ride to BB in a bit and play with a few to get a better idea. I am going to keep my Kodak DC100 as it is so bombproof, after being dropped in the river, off the bike, down some stairs. It is just oo bulky and we woulod like to have a bit bigger prints than it supports well.

-Ron

[wxwax]

thanks, Sid. I suspected that was the case, though I recall some discussion a while back about flash card speeds or something. I am going to take the long way ride to BB in a bit and play with a few to get a better idea. I am going to keep my Kodak DC100 as it is so bombproof, after being dropped in the river, off the bike, down some stairs. It is just oo bulky and we woulod like to have a bit bigger prints than it supports well.

-Ron
Cool. Lemme know if you want some company.

[Vhunter]

Please let us know what you find on the various memory write speeds.

I had not given much thought to the speed of the memory writes until now,
and I wonder if one type of card is faster than another. CF seems to have
more pin connections than SD, so one would think it would be faster?
:scratch

Looks like there are a lot of pedal pushers here on DG. :D Even a couple
of motorscooter riders! I updated my avatar to a picture of a bike like the
new one that I just got myself for Christmas.
Now if it will quit snowing here so I can get a few hundered miles on it before
that first :huh long :huh ride!

All the info about cameras on bikes is going to be helpful to me.. Thanks for shareing!

[wxwax]

Please let us know what you find on the various memory write speeds.

I had not given much thought to the speed of the memory writes until now,
and I wonder if one type of card is faster than another. CF seems to have
more pin connections than SD, so one would think it would be faster?
:scratch

Looks like there are a lot of pedal pushers here on DG. :D Even a couple
of motorscooter riders! I updated my avatar to a picture of a bike like the
new one that I just got myself for Christmas.
Now if it will quit snowing here so I can get a few hundered miles on it before
that first :huh long :huh ride!

All the info about cameras on bikes is going to be helpful to me.. Thanks for shareing!


V, lots has been written about the speed of various cards. But all digital cameras rely on a buffer to hold the images while they're being written to the card. So a lot of times, delays are down to the size of the buffer as much as the write speeds of the camera and the card.

[patch29]

V, lots has been written about the speed of various cards. But all digital cameras rely on a buffer to hold the images while they're being written to the card. So a lot of times, delays are down to the size of the buffer as much as the write speeds of the camera and the card.

Here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=6007) is a good speed test. Look for the newer model cameras and cards to get a look at the best that is available today. This test is done on mostly pro cameras (DSLRs), but it will give you some insight into the differences between different cards and manufacturers. Cards are much less expensive today than they were so if you can get a faster card for a little more it should help some and it may also help shorten your times when downloading cards.

dpreivew lists camera fps and max shots for the buffer for most of the cameras.

The buffer can also be affected by the size and type of file you are writing to the card. If you write the largest size jpg vs smallest jpg vs raw, etc.

[fish]

hello n00bies! :wave

There are actually two delays in your cameras: (1) Write to card speed, as waxy mentioned; and (2) shutter lag. Shutter lag is the time between when you push the button and when the shutter actually releases. Many P&S cameras have long shutter lags and it can be very frustrating. One way to workaround the shutterlag is to pre-focus, or push the shutter release button halfway down, so it focuses then keep it there until you're ready to take the shot and push it the rest of the way down. That doesn't help you with multiple shots, nor does it help much with flash, but it's an option.

Shutter lag is one of the reasons I upgraded from a Nikon CP990 to a Canon dSLR.

[rcompton]

Cool. Lemme know if you want some company.
Shoot! I wish I had checked back in, already went and got back. I rode over to Northpoint mall so I could go into Wolf Camera in the mall (They have M/C parking there, bonus!). They told me that the camera write speed and the card speed are both factors. There are different speeds on CF cards, and many do not print them on the packaging.
I rode over to BB to get the camera, and got the same answer from the pimple-faced nerd at the camera counter. I ended up getting a SanDisk 512mb CF 'Ultra II' flash card. Said geek claimed it was the fastest card they carried, and should be comparable with anything else on the market. The packaging claims 10mb/s read and 9mb/s write. This is said to be 60x, I am not sure what non 'ultra' cards do. The camera does have some lag in how it writes to the card, and RAW vs. jpeg or other compressed will make a difference size wise. Sony is supposed to be very quick writing, or so I was told.
Fish's point about the shutter lag is true, and I have made a habit for years of partly depressing the button to get the camera ready.

So I got the A95, looked at the G6, w/7.1mp for $600, but just couldn't justify the extra $, esp as it has lithium batteries vs. the AA, which I prefer as I already have three sets and a couple chargers.

Thanks for the help!

[cmr164]

I am also looking to pick up something new: The one thing I haven't had great luck with is how quickly I can take pics... my current cameral takes a long while to write to the CF card, and I can snap off two or three pics and then I have to wait. I have almost year old twins and this has been a large PITA. Is this a function of the media or the camera? I plan to upgrade this week anyway, and have read many times about the Canon A** series (I was looking at the A95, which I can get for $314 at Best Buy, where I have a $100 gift card to use up), so this was my last concern. if it is the media, can anyone recommend a brand to go along with the upcoming camera purchase?

thanks! -Ron
The camera (http://konicaminolta.com/products/consumer/digital_camera/dimage/dimage-x50/spec.html) I keep praising here (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=92) has the fastest startup time of any of the point and shoots, short shutter lag and can do 2-11 fps depending on resolution.

[ilmostro]

Canon S500 came home today. Test drive to follow. Thanks for the help! :thumb

[ian408]

Canon S500 came home today. Test drive to follow. Thanks for the help! :thumb
Right on! Now you need a lanyard so you can keep it around your neck while you
ride.

Post some pictures soon.

ian

[wxwax]

Canon S500 came home today. Test drive to follow. Thanks for the help! :thumb
:thumb Fun camera. I foresee lots of riding shots.

[wxwax]

Shoot! I wish I had checked back in, already went and got back. I rode over to Northpoint mall so I could go into Wolf Camera in the mall (They have M/C parking there, bonus!). They told me that the camera write speed and the card speed are both factors. There are different speeds on CF cards, and many do not print them on the packaging.
I rode over to BB to get the camera, and got the same answer from the pimple-faced nerd at the camera counter. I ended up getting a SanDisk 512mb CF 'Ultra II' flash card. Said geek claimed it was the fastest card they carried, and should be comparable with anything else on the market. The packaging claims 10mb/s read and 9mb/s write. This is said to be 60x, I am not sure what non 'ultra' cards do. The camera does have some lag in how it writes to the card, and RAW vs. jpeg or other compressed will make a difference size wise. Sony is supposed to be very quick writing, or so I was told.
Fish's point about the shutter lag is true, and I have made a habit for years of partly depressing the button to get the camera ready.

So I got the A95, looked at the G6, w/7.1mp for $600, but just couldn't justify the extra $, esp as it has lithium batteries vs. the AA, which I prefer as I already have three sets and a couple chargers.

Thanks for the help!


You did great, Ron. Good camera, good CF card - now all you need to do is post a steady stream of kiddie shots. :evil

[Treehugger]

So I'm a bit of an oldie at heart - I've worked primarily with manual cameras. Maybe you can suggest a few cameras for a dedicated amateur with the following qualities:

1. Price around 250.
2. $350 max but that might very well change if you tell me Im asking too much from a relatively inexpensive camera.
3/4. Size of printed photos will probably vary from 4x6 to 8.5 x 11. Unless ofcourse I fall in love with a shot.
5. Yes, manual controls would be preferred as an option.
6. Size doesn't really matter, I find them tiny anyways.

A large LCD display and high optical zoom are preffered. I've used telephoto lenses and is there a comparable part in digital cameras?

Advice is much appreciated.

[wxwax]

I had the perfect solution for you, until you got to the big zoom part.

It's an unusual suggestion, but at your price point I'd say you should consider a nice used Canon G3 or G5 (there is no G4.) Excellent cameras, full manual controls, terrific image quality and with the rapidly changing marketplace, available for a song.

They only have a x3 optical zoom, though. Are you wanting more?

Image from a G3.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/2553067-L.jpg

[Treehugger]

Thanks, I'll definetly look into it. I'm slightly hesitant in buying used cameras - no guarantee that they've been treated well before. So if it take a few more bucks in buying a solid camera, I think I'm willing to do that.

What else can you suggest?

[Vhunter]

It sounds like the DiMAGE X50 (http://www.adorama.com/IMNDX50.html) at $329 is a good fit. Did you click the link (http://www.adorama.com/IMNDX50.html) and look at it? The above links point to Adorama and clicking the image below will get you to B&H's page for it. Either vendor are tops in trust reliability and actual shipped price.


I ordered an X50 from B&H today for $289.00 :thumb Also got an extra battery and a case. :D

Thanks for all the info!

P.S. I see where BestBuy has a 1GB SD card for $70.00 after a $15.00 mail in rebate. I might just have to grab one up.

[cmr164]

I ordered an X50 from B&H today for $289.00 :thumb Also got an extra battery and a case. :D

Thanks for all the info!

P.S. I see where BestBuy has a 1GB SD card for $70.00 after a $15.00 mail in rebate. I might just have to grab one up.
I hope it does as well for you as the earlier gen camera did for me and still does for my Arceli.

[ilmostro]

I'm Baaaaaaack! :wave

The Canon S500 that everyone picked out for me has pooped the proverbial bed. The camera still works but the display on the back has quit. :bluduh

I'm off to Europe in a few weeks and doubt I'll have it back from repair in time. What camera should I look for next?

I liked the size and ease of use of the S500. I wasn't a big fan of the proprietary batteries but could live with it and I wasn't thrilled with being unable to manually adjust the shutter speed. To be honest, I didn't think it took that great of pictures.

What is the latest hotness that still meets my original criteria? If it uses the same battery that I already have, that would be nice but not a requirement.

:ear

[patch29]

I'm Baaaaaaack! :wave

The Canon S500 that everyone picked out for me has pooped the proverbial bed. The camera still works but the display on the back has quit. :bluduh

I'm off to Europe in a few weeks and doubt I'll have it back from repair in time. What camera should I look for next?

I liked the size and ease of use of the S500. I wasn't a big fan of the proprietary batteries but could live with it and I wasn't thrilled with being unable to manually adjust the shutter speed. To be honest, I didn't think it took that great of pictures.

What is the latest hotness that still meets my original criteria? If it uses the same battery that I already have, that would be nice but not a requirement.

:ear


First I would keep the S500 for those danger shots you might take holding one hand out and not looking, just get used to setting it correctly. I have an old S50 with a broken screen that I so that with. If it has video out you can access the menus on a TV with the right cable.

If you are getting over or underexposure you can use the exposure compensation and get a better exposure without a manual setting. If you posted here more often you could get tips on how to make your photos better. :bad

The Canon A700 (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canona700/) looks good. It is about $300, uses 2AA batteries and has a good lens. The only bad part is it uses SD memory (I think), but the good news is the price for SD memory has plummeted since you bought your last one. I also think this one has a manual mode. The link above has a very in-depth review.

[knary]

I'm shopping myself for much the same reason. We leave for Italy in 3 weeks. :clap

But I want something truly compact. The A-series cameras from Canon are just too bulky for what we want. I've never liked the size of my old S45 in my pocket. So...which cameras beat the Canon elph series?

[marlinspike]

I think the Canon SD700 IS is where its at. I feel like since point and shoots cant do high iso well, the IS is especially useful with them.

BTW, get it from someplace that takes returns, because youd be surprised with Canon repair. I know when I really really need something, they can typically get me back my camera by Friday if they get it on a Monday, though maybe that's just for dSLR gear.

[knary]

I should add that I'm a cheap bastard trying to keep the camera under $350, if not under $300. :D

[ilmostro]

The A700 is too bulky for me just like Knary said. I eyeballed the SD700 at Best Buy today and it looked like a front runner. They're not giving the damn things away though. :huh

Anything else comparable to look at or a good reason not to consider the SD700?

[knary]

A Casio Z850 was delivered yesterday. I'll try to post a shot or two later.

one quick relatively low light photo that doesn't really tell us anything about the camera other than ISO 400 is a bit noisy (as expected and found in every P&S other than the elusive F30) and that the default sharpening is too high.

http://www.conary.org/bike/post/hungry.jpg