New Canon EOS-1D Mark III

[Brooks P]

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20070221_1dmark3.html

[Rhuarc]

Wow, very impressive!! I just took a look at the rest of their press releases and it looks like that is the only new SLR they released. Doesn't look like there are replacements for the 5D, 30D, or XTi with the DIGIC III processor. I wonder if these will be announced at a later date?

[marlinspike]

There was only one thing I wanted from the latest 1D, and it didn't deliver. Somewhere, there was a rumor that it would have a 1V-esque detachable portrait grip, and I had really hoped that would be true. Oh well...there's always next year.

[Rhuarc]

Now the only shocker that I didn't read about, how much? :huh

[wxwax]

Goodness, they've certainly improved it a lot. The only thing they don't really talk about is improved dynamic range -- just some tricks to protect against the weakness.

I'm very eager to see the corners of the new 16-35. Sounds like the 5D has forced them to deal with its softness.

[David_S85]

Now the only shocker that I didn't read about, how much? :huh

$4K

Due to the new announcements, I updated my profile.

[gus]

$4K

Due to the new announcements, I updated my profile.
You serious ? $4k ???

[Rhuarc]

It's three grand cheaper? How is that possible?

[Brooks P]

Now the only shocker that I didn't read about, how much? :huh

According to Phil on dpreview $3999.

[kdog]

Here's a link to Canon's whitepaper on it. More information than you want to know. :wink

http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_EOS-1D_Mark_III_White_Paper.pdf

I know I just found my next camera. :nod

Oh yeah, and the sample photo ain't too shabby.
http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos1dm3/downloads/motocross-bike.jpg
(Take a long time to download.)

Cheers,
-joel

[kdog]

It's three grand cheaper? How is that possible?

No, no, it's a replacement for the IDIIn, which has a street price of $3400.

-joel

[David_S85]

It's three grand cheaper? How is that possible?

You are thinking of their flagship 1DsMkII. That's still $7K US.

This new 1DmkIII is their topline sports/wildlife camera.

[Brooks P]

"At the request of sports and wildlife photographers, a new micro-adjustment feature allows for very fine changes in the AF point of focus for each lens type in use, along with the addition of adjustable focus-tracking sensitivity as another sophisticated new AF feature."

Are they talking about a fix for front/back focusing on different lenses?

[Rhuarc]

No, no, it's a replacement for the IDIIn, which has a street price of $3400.

-joel


So they don't have a new replacement for the flagship product then?

[kdog]

"At the request of sports and wildlife photographers, a new micro-adjustment feature allows for very fine changes in the AF point of focus for each lens type in use, along with the addition of adjustable focus-tracking sensitivity as another sophisticated new AF feature."

Are they talking about a fix for front/back focusing on different lenses?
:nod :nod :nod

Now you can go through all your lenses and calibrate the camera exactly to each lens. It remembers the setting on each lens model, but not for different copies of the same model. It'll remember 20 different lens types. This is huge.

-joel

[David_S85]

So they don't have a new replacement for the flagship product then?

Yes. They do. But you won't be seeing it until ~September-ish. Probably. Maybe. Possibly. 22MP, 2/3rds the size of the mkII.

[Malte]

No, no, it's a replacement for the IDIIn, which has a street price of $3400.

-joel

I was just thinking, since it has no "n" in th name, is that it for the full frame flagship?

Malte

[Nikolai]

Man,
this is one sweet piece of gear! :clap
Superfast, great resolution, iso from 50 to 6400, new menues, direct ISO access and view, Live View, file transmitter and RC...
I'm blown away... Speechless...
And all that for under $4K!!!!

Oh well. If - big if :-)- my side business goes OK, I'll be brandishing that baby in Glacier NP:-) :deal Until today I was thinking of getting some extra glass, but now, hey, I got a new target:-) :D

[Rhuarc]

With all those features and the price point that is a viable option to go for instead of the 5D. I'd like still having a small crop factor like that one.

[Terrence]

Wow. That is some serious fire power. Time to figure out that embezzlement scheme.

[ziggy53]

This thing is a monster!

Live view (Could be major)
Almost twice the battery life, and a Lithium-Ion formulation (Major for cold weather shooting)
Faster throughput
ISO 6400
300,000 cycle shutter (Wow)
10 fps (Wow)
19 cross AF sensors (Wow)
Micro focus adjustment w/memory
A/D conversion of 14 bits/channel (Huge improvement)
Silent Drive mode
More dynamic range, skewed towards protecting the highlights
Photosites are the same size as previous, despite higher resolution

I'm betting this is a major home run for Canon.

[ziggy53]

http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/20070221_1dmark3.html

Thanks Brooks, this is a very good catch!

[claudermilk]

OMG! I think the camera to get me seriously thinking of ways to raise the funds to go 1-series & upgrade my 20D has arrived. ziggy has already named my main points of interest (ISO, FPS, silent drive, AF). And for $4k no less!! :yikes


Now we know why Canon's been quiet for a bit. Just biding their time for a crushing blow.

[Pezpix]

Heh, I just happened to be at the Canon repair facility in Irvine this morning right as the official announcement was given to their people. Naturally of course, it was like Christmas morning with all the new goodies that Santa Canon left for us :thumb

Things I personally am stoked about...

-Intergration of Anti-dust is becoming standard with all new Canon DSLR lines (hopefully)

-10 frames per second! That's almost one half of a live movie grab!(24fps)

-Upgrade of the LCD viewfinder. Of course, LiveLCD is kind of a novelty but still has some cool practical use)

-New 580ex with metal clamps AND PC cord (bout time!)

-16-35 MkII (Could this finally kill the 17-40 on the wide end?)



Things I am very bummed about with this announcement (or lack thereof)

-1DMII @10.1 megapixel. Dont get me wrong, I think its great to see an upgrade but I really wanted a unified 1D series full-frame (with an optional crop factor and quality level)

-Still no new IDSMIII announcement. By the time we actually see a 1DSMIII, fall colors will be here if we're lucky.

-Still no replacement for the 100-400 (Like the rumored 100-400 f4, or even the 400 f4)

-No 800 f5.6 DO IS (It was a rumor but a cool one)


Ah well, its good to see Canon finally make an upgrade to the pro level equipment. Woot!

[Pezpix]

Oh yeah, and one other thing...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

For those of us who were hoping for the same battery style that our 1D series cameras have been using for three generations of 1D series cameras.... we now have to get a whole new line of propeitary batteries (LC-E4 Lithium-ion battery pack)

Ack

[TylerW]

Looks like its time to ask myself the very serious question, "Do I really need two kidneys?"

[wxwax]

More dynamic range, skewed towards protecting the highlights

Interesting, Ziggy. I didn't read that as increased dynamic range. I read it as a gimmick to preserve highlights by changing the exposure settings.

But then again, I'm not at all technical.

[LiquidAir]

Interesting, Ziggy. I didn't read that as increased dynamic range. I read it as a gimmick to preserve highlights by changing the exposure settings.

But then again, I'm not at all technical.

My read is that it is a little bit of each. My impression is that most digital cameras fit the dynamic range of the sensor (which is usually more than 8 bits) into 8 bits by compressing the shadow detail. This is why you often see recommendations to expose to the right of the histogram: it means less compression.

The Mark III has 14 bits coming from the sensor so the camera is compressing 6 bits of dynamic range at the dark end. What the new mode may be doing is shifting some of the dynamic range off the top end and compressing the highlights as well. This is roughly exquivalent to boosting the exposure in ACR/Lightroom and using highlight recovery. Potentially having compression at both ends will give the Mark III a much more "film-like" response curve. In practice it means that the highlights blow out more gracefully rather than the cliff of most DSLRs.

[Nikolai]

New sRAW, Small RAW image mode:
2.5mp fully functional RAW files, for those who want smaller size (white paper suggests wedding candids) yet retain the full control of the RAW based workflow! :clap

[JimM]

I just finished wiping the drool from my chin. Why does $4k for a camera body suddenly seem like a good deal? :scratch

Until now, I have been so happy with my 20D, but now I know I am going to notice everything it doesn't do well enough. Time to start saving I guess.

[Froggy]

I called B&H this morning to put my order in for one, they told me there is no confirmation to them yet on a release date or a price that they B&H will be selling the camera for.

I was told to call back in March, I was also told that there would be no advanced orders, 1st come, 1st served.

I'm hoping that this camera will be available for my trip to Katmai in July,What a great addition to an already phenominal trip this would be.:barb

[wxwax]

Maybe Patch29 can talk about Canon's history when it comes to delivery after announcement.

[mr peas]

the on the fly LCD viewing isgoing to be ballerific!

time to find a buyer for one of the kidneys.

whats the APS-H size sensor equivalent to in already existing canon bodies?

lots of cool upgrades coming up, i cant even take this all in right now. :huh

dont mind me when i feint.

[Jeffro]

The Live View LCD doesn't do anything for me, just something to go wrong. I can just see someone holding thier camera at arms length looking at the LCD to shoot.....:rofl An SLR with live view....not for me.

But I can't wait till it comes out.....so I can get a deal on a 1D MKIIn! :D

[mr peas]

But I can't wait till it comes out.....so I can get a deal on a 1D MKIIn! :D

Haha.. thats for sure. I'm still aiming for a full-size sensor slr like the 5D. Waiting for those puppies to go down in price. Crossing those fingers!

[Nikolai]

I just finished wiping the drool from my chin. Why does $4k for a camera body suddenly seem like a good deal? :scratch
Two years ago I was dreaming of 20D...
Now I have two 30D-s and for some reason the idea of getting Mark III by this summer does not seem to be a utopical one ...:dunno :wink
Man, I like my hobby/sidebiz!:ivar

[wxwax]

My read is that it is a little bit of each. My impression is that most digital cameras fit the dynamic range of the sensor (which is usually more than 8 bits) into 8 bits by compressing the shadow detail. This is why you often see recommendations to expose to the right of the histogram: it means less compression.

The Mark III has 14 bits coming from the sensor so the camera is compressing 6 bits of dynamic range at the dark end. What the new mode may be doing is shifting some of the dynamic range off the top end and compressing the highlights as well. This is roughly exquivalent to boosting the exposure in ACR/Lightroom and using highlight recovery. Potentially having compression at both ends will give the Mark III a much more "film-like" response curve. In practice it means that the highlights blow out more gracefully rather than the cliff of most DSLRs.
Interesting post.

Thanks Liquid.

[gluwater]

-Upgrade of the LCD viewfinder. Of course, LiveLCD is kind of a novelty but still has some cool practical use)
Remember that this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. Think of the superbowl or other big sporting event where at the end you see all the photogs surounding the coaches or MVPs and the photogs are holding their cameras up in the air hoping they get someone in the frame. That is a perfect example of what this would be useful for.

Things I am very bummed about with this announcement (or lack thereof)

-1DMII @10.1 megapixel. Dont get me wrong, I think its great to see an upgrade but I really wanted a unified 1D series full-frame (with an optional crop factor and quality level)

Again, this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. The APS-H sensor is a plus in those fields. Full Frame just makes your lens that much shorter, if you really desire FF than you'll just have to wait for the 1DS MrkIII.

[gluwater]

whats the APS-H size sensor equivalent to in already existing canon bodies?

APS-H is a 1.3x crop factor

[Fivehole]

I think they shoud have made the LCD screen tiltable like the Oly 330. It would make doing low down macros and portraits with a tripod easier.
It's still an awesome sounding camera.:bow
Not in my budget though:cry

[BenA2]

My read is that it is a little bit of each. My impression is that most digital cameras fit the dynamic range of the sensor (which is usually more than 8 bits) into 8 bits by compressing the shadow detail. This is why you often see recommendations to expose to the right of the histogram: it means less compression.

The Mark III has 14 bits coming from the sensor so the camera is compressing 6 bits of dynamic range at the dark end. What the new mode may be doing is shifting some of the dynamic range off the top end and compressing the highlights as well. This is roughly exquivalent to boosting the exposure in ACR/Lightroom and using highlight recovery. Potentially having compression at both ends will give the Mark III a much more "film-like" response curve. In practice it means that the highlights blow out more gracefully rather than the cliff of most DSLRs.
I'm lost here--granted I have not read the white paper. Is this feature only applicable to JPEG mode since you're talking about 8-bit compression? How does this apply to 16-bit RAW files?

[evoryware]

wow. I need a 3rd job.

[Pezpix]

Remember that this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. Think of the superbowl or other big sporting event where at the end you see all the photogs surounding the coaches or MVPs and the photogs are holding their cameras up in the air hoping they get someone in the frame. That is a perfect example of what this would be useful for.

Again, this is a Wildlife/Sports camera. The APS-H sensor is a plus in those fields. Full Frame just makes your lens that much shorter, if you really desire FF than you'll just have to wait for the 1DS MrkIII.

No, you read it wrong.

I want the 1D series to unify, creating a full-frame/1.3x crop adjustable :thumb

[gluwater]

No, you read it wrong.

I want the 1D series to unify, creating a full-frame/1.3x crop adjustable :thumb
I thought that was called the crop tool in PS? I never really saw the point having that in camera.

[LiquidAir]

-10 frames per second! That's almost one half of a live movie grab!(24fps)

-1DMII @10.1 megapixel. Dont get me wrong, I think its great to see an upgrade but I really wanted a unified 1D series full-frame (with an optional crop factor and quality level)



My understanding is that full frame sensors require a two pass process to extract all the data which slows the frame rate down. Until there is significant shift in sensor technology, Canon will be making fast APS-H and slower full frame bodies. While the resolution for the 1D line is likely going to be kept to something sane so it doesn't chew up memory cards too quickly at those blistering speeds, expect the 1Ds line to push resolution to the limit.

On a side note, various things I have read recently have made me think that Canon may come out with yet another mount specifically targeted at APS-H (similar to the EF-S lenses but with L-style construction). I am a little surprised that wasn't part of the 1DIII announcement.

[patch29]

Maybe Patch29 can talk about Canon's history when it comes to delivery after announcement.


Time to enter the way back machine.

1Ds announced 9/24/02, purchased the first one from my retailer in Atlanta about sixty days later in November.

1DmkII announced 1/29/04, not the earliest buyer, but I had two in my possession by mid-May.

Sometimes they are very fast, sometimes they are not. I can believe April for a delivery date. If I can get a fair price for my 1DmkII cameras, I could see upgrading both bodies, a spare battery or two, two 580EXII flashes, two CPE4 battery packs (hopefully I can sell the 550EX's and CPE2's and finally upgrade the 16-35 to the new one, this could turn out to be another expensive year. :deal :yikes

[LiquidAir]

I'm lost here--granted I have not read the white paper. Is this feature only applicable to JPEG mode since you're talking about 8-bit compression? How does this apply to 16-bit RAW files?

I am guessing about this feature. I don't know anything.

However, if my theory is right, setting this would cause your RAW files to exposed, say, a stop darker to leave extra headroom for the whites. Some extra metadata would be added to the RAW file to indicate this. Then DPP (or your favorite RAW converter) would then compensate by pumping up the brightness to bring 18% grey back to where it should be. Normally the camera clips about +3 stops from middle grey. In this mode you would have 4 stops available above middle gray. As a first pass I would bring middle grey and +1 back to where they should be and the roll off the curve to compress +2, +3 and +4 into the top two stops of the 8 bit range.

When shooting bright scenes with my 5D I will often deliberately underexposed to leave some extra headroom for the highlights. Then I'll adjust the curve in ACR to bring the mid tones up to proper exposure. I do this so I don't blow out the highlights. What I am guessing is that Canon is building this same process directly into the camera. Wedding photographers often face scenes with lots of shiny white cloth which can easily blow out if properly normally exposed. When you are shooting 1000s of pictures in a day having the camera help you out with that part of the workflow will be a substantial boon.

[Nikolai]

...this could turn out to be another expensive year. :deal :yikes
That's what Schedule K or Schedule C is for. Write it off:-) :deal

[mercphoto]

whats the APS-H size sensor equivalent to in already existing canon bodies?
Canon's 1D series has always been a APS-H (i.e. 1.3X crop factor). My 1D Mark II is one, for example. So was the Mark II-N. And I believe the original 1D was as well.

I saw the Canon white paper talking about this sensor being the largest size possible to process in one pass with existing semiconductor technology. Not exactly sure what that meant, and how a full-frame sensor must be fabricated differently. But I'm guessing there must be some limitation with doing a high-speed full frame sensor. Notice none of Canon's full-frame cameras come close to 8 frames per second, let alone 10 fps.

[colourbox]

I'm lost here--granted I have not read the white paper. Is this feature only applicable to JPEG mode since you're talking about 8-bit compression? How does this apply to 16-bit RAW files?

I'm guessing too...but what I think I understand is that most cameras are 12 bits from the sensor poured into a 16-bit raw file format, while this new camera is 14 bits from the sensor into a 16-bit raw file format.

Seen another way:
JPEG = 12-bit data to 8-bit file
RAW (typically) = 12-bit data to 16-bit file
RAW (1DMkIII) = 14-bit data to 16-bit file

I thought that was called the crop tool in PS? I never really saw the point having that in camera.

The high-end cameras produce so many megapixels that some jobs don't actually need them all, like Web-only or newsprint-only jobs. The feature to crop in camera means you only store the megapixels you actually think you're ever going to use for that assignment. That means your card and hard drive space is used more efficiently. You get to store more pictures.

[gluwater]

The high-end cameras produce so many megapixels that some jobs don't actually need them all, like Web-only or newsprint-only jobs. The feature to crop in camera means you only store the megapixels you actually think you're ever going to use for that assignment. That means your card and hard drive space is used more efficiently. You get to store more pictures.
I thought that is what sRAW was for? Plus from what I have seen the only people using HSC are wildlife shooters and that is to get your subject larger in the frame. I have never heard someone using it to conserve storage space.

[rosselliot]

Looks like its time to ask myself the very serious question, "Do I really need two kidneys?"

or both arms? are you left handed, cause I hear right arms are in demand....

[gluwater]

or both arms? are you left handed, cause I hear right arms are in demand....
No you don't need one for Europe :rofl. Sorry, I just thought I would get that out of the way.

[ziggy53]

Interesting, Ziggy. I didn't read that as increased dynamic range. I read it as a gimmick to preserve highlights by changing the exposure settings.

But then again, I'm not at all technical.

I think Canon probably did improve the dynamic range of the chip through reduced noise and reduced clipping of the highlights.

The reduced noise appears to be the result of better on-chip noise control as well as better sampling provided by the improved A/D converter.

The reduced clipping appears to be the result of improved statistical algorithms in the digital processing units (Digic III), again partially influenced by the improved A/D converter. (More sample value gradations means better statistical predictions.)

It would be a good guess that actual measurable improvement is less than 1 stop, otherwise Canon Marketing would be all over it. :D

BTW, some medium format digital backs have 16-bit A/D converters and processors now! I have my fingers crossed for the near future of 35mm format (and APS-C/H) dSLRs.

[rutt]

I think Canon probably did improve the dynamic range of the chip through reduced noise and reduced clipping of the highlights.
...
It would be a good guess that actual measurable improvement is less than 1 stop, otherwise Canon Marketing would be all over it.


I guess we are just going to have to get some of these and try them out, eh? It's a hard job but somebody has to do it..

[mercphoto]

The high-end cameras produce so many megapixels that some jobs don't actually need them all, like Web-only or newsprint-only jobs. The feature to crop in camera means you only store the megapixels you actually think you're ever going to use for that assignment. That means your card and hard drive space is used more efficiently. You get to store more pictures.
That's not what Nikon's high speed crop mode was for, though. If you only need so many megapixels for an assignment then you choose a smaller JPG to record the images in. But in that case you're still using the entire sensor (ie. its not cropped). What Pezpix was getting at was the Nikon D2H, I believe, which offers a sports mode that uses only a center crop of the image. This has a few benefits though I always thought it was gimmicky. One, you are reading fewer pixels off the sensor, so the sensor can be read more quickly, thus ready for the next shot sooner. And this did increase the rapid-fire rate of that camera. It also increases the apparant magnification of the lens, good for sports.

Notice that medium-JPG or small-JPG do not attain any of those goals. They still read all the sensor data, still use all the sensor, there is no crop-factor, etc.

And yes, you could always setup a Photoshop action to crop the center of all your images for you.

[ziggy53]

... the Nikon D2H, I believe, which offers a sports mode that uses only a center crop of the image. ...

It's the D2X and D2Xs:
http://www.nikonusa.com/template.php?cat=1&grp=2&productNr=25414
http://www.kenrockwell.com/nikon/d2x.htm
http://www.outbackphoto.com/reviews/equipment/nikon_d2x/Nikon_d2x_review.html#20051009
http://www.digitalreview.ca/cams/NikonD2X_intro.shtml
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6459-7204
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikon_D2X

[rutt]

Jeff Hirsch at FotoCare (http://dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2811) will be happy to put you on his waiting list. You'll get the camera as soon as anyone does and for this camera anyway you won't pay any less at B&H &etc until it's been shipping for a few months. And you get to deal with Jeff, which is always a pleasure (though sometimes an expensive one.)

I called B&H this morning to put my order in for one, they told me there is no confirmation to them yet on a release date or a price that they B&H will be selling the camera for.

I was told to call back in March, I was also told that there would be no advanced orders, 1st come, 1st served.

I'm hoping that this camera will be available for my trip to Katmai in July,What a great addition to an already phenominal trip this would be.:barb

[rosselliot]

No you don't need one for Europe :rofl. Sorry, I just thought I would get that out of the way.


nice...haha.

[Poseidon]

Wow! Time to start saving again!

Either I will add a 2nd 1D2N, or I will get the 3, but either way the 20D is going to be on the for sale block once I get close to the funds!

[goodcrna]

Will the 1D Mark III still have enough room inside for dual storage slots? SD & CF cards?

[John Mueller]

Will the 1D Mark III still have enough room inside for dual storage slots? SD & CF cards?:nod

[Seamus]

Will the 1D Mark III still have enough room inside for dual storage slots? SD & CF cards?
and, if I read the white paper correctly, it can automatically switch from cf to sd card when the cf card is full. It can also write to both cards with different types, e.g., raw to cf and small jpg to sd. This is a huge feature imho.

[Nikolai]

and, if I read the white paper correctly, it can automatically switch from cf to sd card when the cf card is full. It can also write to both cards with different types, e.g., raw to cf and small jpg to sd. This is a huge feature imho.

A great read altogether. Explains a lot. No coincise review can replace it. :deal

[rosselliot]

Wow! Time to start saving again!

Either I will add a 2nd 1D2N, or I will get the 3, but either way the 20D is going to be on the for sale block once I get close to the funds!


I'm pretty much in a constant state of saving....WHY DOES CANON HAVE TO COME OUT WITH NEW STUFF SO OFTEN!!!!!

[dogwood]

Oh yeah, and one other thing...

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

For those of us who were hoping for the same battery style that our 1D series cameras have been using for three generations of 1D series cameras.... we now have to get a whole new line of propeitary batteries (LC-E4 Lithium-ion battery pack)

Ack

Yeah, I agree, that is a disappointment. The new battery does last longer, but the 1D batteries last plenty long for anything I do-- I seem to get three or four big shoots out of one charge. The new battery does measure it's charge and display that more precisely though.

[ziggy53]

Yeah, I agree, that is a disappointment. The new battery does last longer, but the 1D batteries last plenty long for anything I do-- I seem to get three or four big shoots out of one charge. The new battery does measure it's charge and display that more precisely though.

I believe it's also lighter and smaller, absolutely no memory "effect", less affected by temperature, less "self discharge", and ..., Nikon has been using Lithium batteries in its D2 cameras since 2003 (starting with the D2H).

[erich6]

I'm blown away by the specs and features on this camera. Canon has definitely been listening and they are delivering! This is going to be one of the "greats".

Erich

[erich6]

I'm guessing too...but what I think I understand is that most cameras are 12 bits from the sensor poured into a 16-bit raw file format, while this new camera is 14 bits from the sensor into a 16-bit raw file format.

Seen another way:
JPEG = 12-bit data to 8-bit file
RAW (typically) = 12-bit data to 16-bit file
RAW (1DMkIII) = 14-bit data to 16-bit file



That's how it goes...you got it!

[erich6]

I think Canon probably did improve the dynamic range of the chip through reduced noise and reduced clipping of the highlights.

The reduced noise appears to be the result of better on-chip noise control as well as better sampling provided by the improved A/D converter.

The reduced clipping appears to be the result of improved statistical algorithms in the digital processing units (Digic III), again partially influenced by the improved A/D converter. (More sample value gradations means better statistical predictions.)

It would be a good guess that actual measurable improvement is less than 1 stop, otherwise Canon Marketing would be all over it. :D

BTW, some medium format digital backs have 16-bit A/D converters and processors now! I have my fingers crossed for the near future of 35mm format (and APS-C/H) dSLRs.

Ziggy,

I agree with you that the extra 2 bits probably don't tilt the scales that much in terms of noise but the dynamic range and tonal gradation improvement should be noticeable.

We may not see a stop improvement across the board but my guess is that the noise increase as a function of ISO will be a tad lower than before.

Erich

[Terrence]

Just some more street intelligence. I spoke with my local shop and they are confident the street price will be between $3,700 and $3,900. This shop tends to be about 15% more expensive than B&H, so B&H may come in between $3,100 and $3,300. That would drop the cost of a new MKIIN well below $3,000 I would think. My local shop thinks used MKII and MKIIN prices will be between $1,500 and $2,000. That makes the choice to jump over the 30D really easy for me. All speculation at this point, but it sure is fun playing with the virtual dollars!

[FatNakedGuy]

Will my existing L glass work with this new beast?

My wife is going to be PISSED when I introduce her to my new camera... :)

[David_S85]

Prepare your wife for the new camera. That's a "yes."

[DanielB]

wow.... time to start saving my pennies again. :lol3

no seriously though. this is the camera i want to graduate with. is the crop rate still 1.3x? or did they up it to 1.6 or finally go cold turkey w/ FF?

if its FF then this will promise to be amazing. the 3" LCD in the back sounds good enough already! and 10 fps. wow. is all i have to say. I wanna hear a camera when i shoot... not small arms fire.:rofl

EDIT: this is beautiful. http://www.usa.canon.com/templatedata/pressrelease/images/hiRes/20070221_hiRes_eos1dmarkiii_back.jpg

[David_S85]

Daniel, 1.3 crop on this cam. 1.3 (APS-H) has been the sensor size for a while on this series, as the new 1DmkIII is a high-performance sports/wildlife camera with a huge processing buffer and throughput. Currently, a FF sensor would create file sizes too big to achieve 10fps. It is not the replacement for the 1DsMkII. That is yet to come (http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/02/three-predictions.html).

[DanielB]

Daniel, 1.3 crop on this cam. 1.3 (APS-H) has been the sensor size for a while on this series, as th 1DmkIII is a high-performance sports/wildlife camera with a huge processing buffer and throughput. It is not the replacement for the 1DsMkII. That is yet to come (http://theonlinephotographer.blogspot.com/2007/02/three-predictions.html).
so what is this going to do to the prices of the Mk2n? or is it going to eliminate the market for them.
would it be a more reasonable thought that one would be ahead to buy the mk2n since the only true upgrade it seams is 2 mp and 2 fps? and a prettier screen.

[David_S85]

so what is this going to do to the prices of the Mk2n? or is it going to eliminate the market for them.


Yeah, used prices will go down on the n, but that is always a known when things change. Rebates on existing stock perhaps, if quantities are high enough. Some folks have been waiting for this to get in on lower prices. Others can't wait to drop $4K on the update.



would it be a more reasonable thought that one would be ahead to buy the mk2n since the only true upgrade it seams is 2 mp and 2 fps? and a prettier screen.

Depends. Are you shooting sports or fast wildlife? This is a specialty camera, and its heavier than what you're used to. Read the specs and white paper, already linked in prior pages. The MkIII has a lot more to offer then a couple more MP and fps. LOTS more.

[DanielB]

Yeah, used prices will go down on the n, but that is always a known when things change. Rebates on existing stock perhaps, if quantities are high enough. Some folks have been waiting for this to get in on lower prices. Others can't wait to drop $4K on the update.




Depends. Are you shooting sports or fast wildlife? This is a specialty camera, and its heavier than what you're used to. Read the specs and white paper, already linked in prior pages. The MkIII has a lot more to offer then a couple more MP and fps. LOTS more.

read it.... and wow. like stated earlier, did Canon just finally pull the fingers out of the ears and listen?:huh

[Malte]

Very impressive, buuut...

Not only is GPS a clunky add-on, it's an add-on to the clunky Wi-Fi add-on. :pissed :crazy

Malte

[erich6]

Prepare your wife for the new camera. That's a "yes."

Yeah...I started greasing the skids with my wife yesterday. Mentioning how I thought it was interesting how everyone was raving about this new camera and commenting how good a camera it was. I never mentioned I would like to HAVE the camera but it was enough to see her face expression to know that this isn't going to happen anytime soon... :rofl

Erich

[ian408]

Wow! It's a nice upgrade to an already great camera.

I wonder if existing 1D batteries will work with it?

[wxwax]

Wow! It's a nice upgrade to an already great camera.

I wonder if existing 1D batteries will work with it?
Ahem. (http://www.dgrin.com/showpost.php?p=491828&postcount=67) :rofl :flip

[Terrence]

You need new batteries, but you get TWO cup holders!! :rofl:rofl:rofl

[claudermilk]

Well, as super-duper cool as the Mk III is, it's not in my near future. :cry

Floated that trial balloon this weekend, and well, the wife reacted with :gun2:thwak:beatwax:grim ...so after beating a hasty retreat...:hurt I mentioned the Mk IIN prices ought to be dropping down to the $1500 range--which sounds so reasonable after trying for $4k just a while ago. :hide


...I've been waiting forever to use some of those smileys....

[ziggy53]

Well, as super-duper cool as the Mk III is, it's not in my near future. :cry

Floated that trial balloon this weekend, and well, the wife reacted with :gun2:thwak:beatwax:grim ...so after beating a hasty retreat...:hurt I mentioned the Mk IIN prices ought to be dropping down to the $1500 range--which sounds so reasonable after trying for $4k just a while ago. :hide


...I've been waiting forever to use some of those smileys....

$1500USD for a Canon 1D MKIIN is probably a bit wishfull.

A good used Canon 1D is about that now, and a good used Canon 1D MKII is about $1800-$2600 or so.

The Canon 1D MKIIN is still available new for $3400-$3500, and $2500-$3000 used.

(Prices gleaned from B&H, KEH, Adorama and FM Buy & Sell today)

[natephoto]

Wow! This sure looks like it's going to be a fantastic camera!

I've got a 20D now, so this makes the jump to the 1D series easier.. I think i'd still keep my 20D though, at least as a second or backup camera. I shoot Bar/Bat Mitzvahs and other special events/parties, so the 20D is fine for this, but I also shoot sports including a lot of football night games.. Sounds like this camera with a nice 70-200 f 2.8 would help a lot!

What do you guys think the top realistic justifications for buying this camera are? Will it be a dramatic improvement for me in sports and event photography over my 20D ?

[Terrence]

$1500USD for a Canon 1D MKIIN is probably a bit wishfull.

My local shop is expecting $1500 to $2000 to be the price for a used MKIIN. I think that's too low. I'd expect $2200 +/- $200 to be the realistic range for a body in good shape. We'll have to wait for the MKIII to get in the hands of some people before we really know what the used market will look like of course.

A lot of guys in my local club felt the 1D-MKIIN was not too big of an improvement over the 1D-MKII (NOT the 1Ds-MKII), so those people may sell now, meaning even more choice and competition.

No matter what, there will be great deals to be had this summer.

[ziggy53]

Wow! This sure looks like it's going to be a fantastic camera!

I've got a 20D now, so this makes the jump to the 1D series easier.. I think i'd still keep my 20D though, at least as a second or backup camera. I shoot Bar/Bat Mitzvahs and other special events/parties, so the 20D is fine for this, but I also shoot sports including a lot of football night games.. Sounds like this camera with a nice 70-200 f 2.8 would help a lot!

What do you guys think the top realistic justifications for buying this camera are? Will it be a dramatic improvement for me in sports and event photography over my 20D ?

For daytime sports (plenty of light) the Canon 20D/30D work great. 5 FPS is plenty and the sensitivity of the camera allows very fast AF. The Nikon D200 is also a contender.

For night sports, the Canon 1D MKII/MKIIN/MKIII are the kings and the Nikon D2H/D2Hs are also very competent. AF is greatly improved, and ISO3200 is very usable (on the Canons).

Typical outdoor sports lenses are the Canon 70-200mm, f2.8L (and the IS version), Canon 300mm, f2.8L IS, Canon 300mm, f4L IS, Canon 200mm, f2.8, Sigma 70-200mm, f2.8, Sigma 120-300mm, f2.8, Sigma 300mm, f2.8, etc.. Nikon have a similar lens lineup, except they also have a gorgeous Nikkor 200mm, f2 G VR that is worth the price of a system. Canon used to have one (dopes) and now the Canon 200mm, f1.8L costs as much alone as the Nikkor 200mm plus a D2Hs camera (therebouts).

Indoor sports lenses tend to be a bit wider but of the f2-f2.8 variety.

A lot of this is IMHO, but I have the Canon 1D MKII and I got twice as many keepers at night games vs my XT. I also did better than a friend who had a 20D.

[Nikolai]

For daytime sports (plenty of light) the Canon 20D/30D work great. 5 FPS is plenty and the sensitivity of the camera allows very fast AF. The Nikon D200 is also a contender.

For night sports, the Canon 1D MKII/MKIIN/MKIII are the kings and the Nikon D2H/D2Hs are also very competent. AF is greatly improved, and ISO3200 is very usable (on the Canons).
.....



It's the faster/better AF in low light (plus some nice extras) that you're paying the premium for..

[mercphoto]

but I also shoot sports including a lot of football night games.. Sounds like this camera with a nice 70-200 f 2.8 would help a lot! ... Will it be a dramatic improvement for me in sports and event photography over my 20D ?
Absolutely. I found the focus tracking on the 20D marginal for football, especially at night. The 1D Mark II is amazing at focus and tracking. Low-light performance is definitely a step up as well. You will love the 1-series.

A comment on the lens for football. It seems above as if you do not have a 70-200/2.8 yet. Most don't consider this a good football lens. If funds are tight save $$$ and get the 200/2.8 as you will seldom need to use the zoom feature. But what you really want for football is the 300/2.8, if not a 400/2.8. Those are expensive beasts. FWIW I still regret selling my 300/2.8, that is how much I recommend the lens if you can swing it.

The 70-200/2.8 is a great lens for lots of uses. If you need lots of uses then by all means get it. If you are looking for a football lens though there are much better choices is what I'm getting at.

[natephoto]

Thank you very much for your replies!

Yea, sounds like the 1 series, especially this new one will be a lot better than the 20D especially for low light action photography.
As Ziggy noted,, yea, I get a good amount of non-keepers...

Nope, don't own the 70-200 2.8 IS... -yet
I am considering it as my primary action lense since I shoot plenty of other sports other than football including stuff like skiing and also theatre shows, concerts, parties and other events.
I have very little experience with non-zoom telephoto lenses, but it sure sounds like a 300 2.8 would be sweet.
Although due to my little experience with this, I'm not sure about zooming... hmm. I'm used to being able to zoom...
Although, If I buy this camera, I'll still keep the 20D with my 75-300 so I could easily get shots like sideline shots with that.


--and the 300mm is pretty expen$ive! What is the advantage over the 200mm 2.8 than the 70-200 ? I would think that the 70-200 would be better, although the 200 would save me money. (haha, I need to look cool with a famous white lense though :rofl :wink :ivar )

Here's an important question though... Would it be a little counterintuitive to have this brand new, nice camera with just an Okay lense?

Nate

[mercphoto]

--and the 300mm is pretty expen$ive! What is the advantage over the 200mm 2.8 than the 70-200 ? I would think that the 70-200 would be better, although the 200 would save me money.
In general, primes have better image quality than zooms. So the 200/2.8 would be cheaper, plus better image quality, than the 70-200/2.8 zoom. Plus less weight.

Here's an important question though... Would it be a little counterintuitive to have this brand new, nice camera with just an Okay lense?
Counterintuitive? Probably. The lens is usually more important than the camera body. Not always, but often. You will eventually get the whole package, it can be debated which step is the correct first step.

Even with an ok lens the 1-series will do things the 30D cannot.

[Nikolai]

In general, primes have better image quality than zooms. So the 200/2.8 would be cheaper, plus better image quality, than the 70-200/2.8 zoom. Plus less weight.

With all due respect you forgot a little thing called "IS". :deal
70-200 has it, 200 prime does not. :dunno
3 f-stops difference is (IMHO) way more than justifies the difference in price and weight... You pretty much can't use 200 (or longer) prime at night/inside without monopod, or even tripod. Each greatly reduces your mobility. With IS you can shoot handheld all you want.
And as a nice side effect you'll develop some solid biceps:-):wink

[gluwater]

With all due respect you forgot a little thing called "IS". :deal
70-200 has it, 200 prime does not. :dunno
3 f-stops difference is (IMHO) way more than justifies the difference in price and weight... You pretty much can't use 200 (or longer) prime at night/inside without monopod, or even tripod. Each greatly reduces your mobility. With IS you can shoot handheld all you want.
And as a nice side effect you'll develop some solid biceps:-):wink
$1000 is a big difference Nik. Plus when shooting movement in low light you will need to have a fairly fast shutter speed to stop the action. In order to stop the action your shutter speed will also be high enough to eliminate camera shake. For a budget I'd say the 200 f/2.8 would be the way to go.

[XHawkeye]

Nice video of the IDmkIII at 10 fps
www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E1DMK3/E1DMK3A.HTM (http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E1DMK3/E1DMK3A.HTM)




The ultimate football setup is a 300/400 2.8 on one body and 70-200 2.8 on another body.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/1234Alh/Junk/20061014LSU-1.jpg

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/1234Alh/Junk/20061014LSU-2.jpg

[Nikolai]

$1000 is a big difference Nik. Plus when shooting movement in low light you will need to have a fairly fast shutter speed to stop the action. In order to stop the action your shutter speed will also be high enough to eliminate camera shake. For a budget I'd say the 200 f/2.8 would be the way to go.

I agree, it's a budget question. I saved for quite some time for my 70-200. Yet I can say it has already paid for itself (in less than 6 months), since I got a few paid gigs which I would not be able to do with a tripod. :deal

And versatility of the 70-200 zoom range...:ivar
But I guess it leads to an old flamewar between Zooms and Primes, so I better shut down..:-) :hide

[mercphoto]

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e319/1234Alh/Junk/20061014LSU-2.jpg
That's a good way to lose a lens, carrying it like that on the monopod! Puts lot of stress on that small 1/4-20 bolt holding it on. I've heard horror stories when those things let go... :O

[wxwax]

That's a good way to lose a lens, carrying it like that on the monopod! Puts lot of stress on that small 1/4-20 bolt holding it on. I've heard horror stories when those things let go... :O
I get shouted down when I say it, but I agree completely.

[erich6]

The Imaging Resource has a nice preview of this camera:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E1DMK3/E1DMK3A.HTM

Don't forget to click the "tabs" at the top of the article to see additional information. They did a nice job explaining some of the inner workings of this camera.

It looks like the 14 bits are there more to improve tonal gradation than to increase dynamic range although there's a "highlight recovery mode" which you may think of as extending the range by 1-stop.

Sample shots at ISO6400 look amazing....

Erich

[gus]

I get shouted down when I say it, but I agree completely.
I run & jump across rocks etc with my 400 on my tripod. never had a scare yet but hey...its all insured to the teeth.

[claudermilk]

$1500USD for a Canon 1D MKIIN is probably a bit wishfull.

A good used Canon 1D is about that now, and a good used Canon 1D MKII is about $1800-$2600 or so.

The Canon 1D MKIIN is still available new for $3400-$3500, and $2500-$3000 used.

(Prices gleaned from B&H, KEH, Adorama and FM Buy & Sell today)

OK, fine, ruin my fantasy! Thanks! :cry

Yeah, probably around the $2k range give or take is more like reality, but it's still half of a new Mk III. I'm just looking at the 20D price history when the 30D hit--it dropped nearly 50% in about a month.

[jdryan3]

$1000 is a big difference Nik. Plus when shooting movement in low light you will need to have a fairly fast shutter speed to stop the action. In order to stop the action your shutter speed will also be high enough to eliminate camera shake. For a budget I'd say the 200 f/2.8 would be the way to go.

I actually used the cost/prime reason for getting the 200 f/2.8. Great bokeh, sharp and fast! A really great lens. And I returned it. I was using it in low light and had to boost the ISO to use it since there wasn't any IS. But the main reason had to do with the situations in which I shoot. I kept needing to backup to get a good composition. Somewhere in the 150-170 range. Yes, it is $1K more but I have never regretted my decision. :thumb

[Nikolai]

I actually used the cost/prime reason for getting the 200 f/2.8. Great bokeh, sharp and fast! A really great lens. And I returned it. I was using it in low light and had to boost the ISO to use it since there wasn't any IS. But the main reason had to do with the situations in which I shoot. I kept needing to backup to get a good composition. Somewhere in the 150-170 range. Yes, it is $1K more but I have never regretted my decision. :thumb

Exactly my reasoning! :thumb You get what you pay for:-) :deal

[truth]

Interview with Canon's Chuck Westfall. (http://www.calumetphoto.com/promo/1629?type=usenews022607&a=EWAYUS)

[natephoto]

Does anyone know if all canon lenses (or just some) are water/weather resistant? I heard that it was only the L series lenses,, but are there more that weather proof? I know that just about all of canon's cameras can withstand a little bit of rain, dust or snow.. but I'm talking weather-sealed so that I don't have to worry about it if I want to shoot a mud game in the pouring rain.
(obviously it's still necessary to take care of any equipment, but in event of a sudden storm...?)

This will be an improvement from my 20D... I'm afraid to take it out in the elements while I could be gettng great shots.

[Mike Lane]

So I've been thinking about this one. Are there any disadvantages of using ISO 50 (other than the obvious losing one stop of sensitivity)? I'm just wondering why this would be an extension of the ISO range rather than it being on by default.

At any rate, this has become my dream camera. I think the 1.3 crop factor would be perfect, I can't imagine why I would need more than 10 megapixels other than to be able to frame generously and then crop in post, 10 fps would allow me to show off like nobody's business (okay, maybe I don't need 10 fps, but the flutter sound would be super cool :D), my next camera will have anti-dust, and I can even fathom possibly being able to afford / justify the $4000 esitmated cost to the house CFO (but $8000 or $9000 or maybe more for the 1ds mkII replacement is well over the line).

So if anyone would care to make a donation to the Mike Lane gets a 1D mkIII fund, I'd appreciate it. :wink

[ziggy53]

Does anyone know if all canon lenses (or just some) are water/weather resistant? I heard that it was only the L series lenses,, but are there more that weather proof? I know that just about all of canon's cameras can withstand a little bit of rain, dust or snow.. but I'm talking weather-sealed so that I don't have to worry about it if I want to shoot a mud game in the pouring rain.
(obviously it's still necessary to take care of any equipment, but in event of a sudden storm...?)

This will be an improvement from my 20D... I'm afraid to take it out in the elements while I could be gettng great shots.

According to this list, "most" "L" lenses are weather sealed, not water proof. It is more of a water shed and o-ring system, not designed for immersion or continuous exposure.

http://www.lensplay.com/lenses/lens_weathersealed.html

Most notably, the 70-200mm, f4L is "not" weather sealed, but the later IS version of the lens is.

As far as I know, no other Canon lenses are weather sealed outside of the "L" line. I don't know about other manufacturers products.

[ziggy53]

So I've been thinking about this one. Are there any disadvantages of using ISO 50 (other than the obvious losing one stop of sensitivity)? I'm just wondering why this would be an extension of the ISO range rather than it being on by default.

At any rate, this has become my dream camera. I think the 1.3 crop factor would be perfect, I can't imagine why I would need more than 10 megapixels other than to be able to frame generously and then crop in post, 10 fps would allow me to show off like nobody's business (okay, maybe I don't need 10 fps, but the flutter sound would be super cool :D), my next camera will have anti-dust, and I can even fathom possibly being able to afford / justify the $4000 esitmated cost to the house CFO (but $8000 or $9000 or maybe more for the 1ds mkII replacement is well over the line).

So if anyone would care to make a donation to the Mike Lane gets a 1D mkIII fund, I'd appreciate it. :wink

Mike,

Canon cautions that dynamic range is reduced at ISO 50 on the 1D MKII and 1D MKIIN.

Some users, including other Canon 1D series owners, get unusual results and inconsistant results across different color channels.

http://www.openphotographyforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=978

The following link shows the DRange at different ISOs

http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/evaluation-1d2/

Neutral density filters are probably more desirable to use.

ISO 50 does improve signal to noise ratios, so if the scene is not too much DR, ISO 50 will reduce sensitivity and allow a larger aperture or longer exposure.

[Andy]

I get shouted down when I say it, but I agree completely.
:wave waxy So this is one of two things I know of that we are diametrically opposed on :lol3

[pathfinder]

That's a good way to lose a lens, carrying it like that on the monopod! Puts lot of stress on that small 1/4-20 bolt holding it on. I've heard horror stories when those things let go... :O
He didn't have to buy the lens - his employer bought the lens - he is just using it.

That said, I know of more than one owner ( not me either ) who has rued the day he decided to carry a big lens ower his shoulder on a tripod. Harry knows them also. Tripods have beeen known to fall off cliffs with the good stuff on them also. Be careful out there, boys.

[truth]

:wave waxy So this is one of two things I know of that we are diametrically opposed on :lol3

I'm with you Andy, the bolt is stronger than the lens mount.

[David_S85]

Can't we all just agree that if you're going to use a 1/4-20 bolt, that it had better be a real good quality bolt?

[wxwax]

:wave waxy So this is one of two things I know of that we are diametrically opposed on :lol3
:nod

I have a bad experience on my side. BTDT, trying to get rid of the t-shirt.

[oddstuff]

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8h2AMllP0Y) video. One may mistaken it for a machine gun. :D

[Rhuarc]

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8h2AMllP0Y) video. One may mistaken it for a machine gun. :D

Two things, 1, that is amazing! 2, some of the people commenting over there crack me up! Some of the comments about how useless the 10fps feature is make me just shake my head.

[mercphoto]

Some of the comments about how useless the 10fps feature is make me just shake my head.
Most pro sports shooters I know aren't asking for more frames per second. I gotta agree, 8.5 is pretty darn fast and I don't see the need myself for a faster frame rate. You don't get the shot you want by laying down the shutter and praying one of them is the shot you hoped you got.

10fps is pure bragging rights by Canon and little else.

[Rhuarc]

Most pro sports shooters I know aren't asking for more frames per second. I gotta agree, 8.5 is pretty darn fast and I don't see the need myself for a faster frame rate. You don't get the shot you want by laying down the shutter and praying one of them is the shot you hoped you got.

10fps is pure bragging rights by Canon and little else.

Oh I agree completely. Some of the comments thoughw ere regarding the concept of shooting fast like that,not specifically the exact number of shots per sec. I gotta admit, even if the bump up to 10fps is just bragging rights, it's still sounds amazing to me when I hear that shutter going off like a machine gun! :D

[claudermilk]

Watch this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8h2AMllP0Y) video. One may mistaken it for a machine gun. :D

:wow:bow:lust:lust:lust

I SO want one. There's GOT to be a way to rob a bank without going to jail.... :scratch:tiptoe

Gotta love the evil chuckle at the end, kind of like "heh, match THAT, guys"

[Nimai]

There's GOT to be a way to rob a bank without going to jail....I'm thinking maybe a clandestine-to-the-wife stock sale... :thumb

[ziggy53]

The 10 frames-per-second shutter is not the only speed advantage in this machine. The exposure system and the auto-focus systems have been improved to keep up with the shutter, and that makes for a much more responsive camera overall.

Couple the above advances and add in a larger buffer and faster memory card write speeds, and you start to get a feel for why this camera is so significant.

Frankly, the 1D cameras are so fast, it exposes (pun intended) the poor autofocus of some of the lenses. Its like, "c'mon, focus already!" ... and then the camera is there for you "bam".

The effect is hard to describe, you really have to experience the difference.

(In the Nikon world, the D2H/D2Hs is a similar experience. Shooting alongside, with several of these high-speed cameras, is quite an event in itself. :thumb Bambambambambambambam ...)

[Terrence]

10fps is pure bragging rights by Canon and little else.

As a bird photographer, that belongs to a club of about 75 bird photographers, I can tell you it makes a difference. Not huge...but a difference. The uptick to 10fps and the dual DigicIII setup also gives the bird photographer a jump from 22 RAW burst to 30 RAW burst. Birds in flight, birds landing and birds feeding are where this is a help. The action is so fast and unpredictable that you increase your chances of getting the perfect moment captured, because you simply can not see the action and decide what to shoot as quickly as you can see the action and shoot it until it stops. I am NOT saying people should hold down the shutter and pray. I AM saying that with this added speed comes the ability to more closely match the speed of your subject. You simply do not have time to setup and take the one perfect frame in these situations. One splash of water, position of the eye, position of the wing, etc. can make the difference between a good bird shot and a great bird shot.

The camera alone does not a photographer make of course, so please do not think I am advocating someone gets the camera to be a better photographer. Put that camera and a 500 f/4 in my hands I'll produce a picture as good or bad as what I am producing with my 30D today. For the high amateur or pro that is killing with a MarkIIN, I'll wager the MarkIII does give them an edge and some more room to push their craft.

[natephoto]

Is there a certain shutter speed that I have to be at to get the full frames per second of a camera? Obviously I have to be in burst mode,, but I have a 20D.. how can I make it go the full 5 FPS (i think it has 5fps)..

Thanks!

[ziggy53]

Is there a certain shutter speed that I have to be at to get the full frames per second of a camera? Obviously I have to be in burst mode,, but I have a 20D.. how can I make it go the full 5 FPS (i think it has 5fps)..

Thanks!

Hi Nate!

Yes, the 20D has a 5fps capability. In Canon speak, you want "Continuous mode", which is selected via the "Drive/ISO" button.

Obviously, some shutter speeds are too long to allow full 5fps speed. I guess if you are shooting a slow shutter, you probably won't need the 5fps anyway, so dosn't worry about it.

5fps is mostly useful for sports/action photography, which could include some event photography. Worry more about fast Auto-Focus during those occasions when you need the 5fps, as the camera will not fire until you acquire focus lock.

[Nimai]

Is there a certain shutter speed that I have to be at to get the full frames per second of a camera? Obviously I have to be in burst mode,, but I have a 20D.. how can I make it go the full 5 FPS (i think it has 5fps)..

Thanks!This belongs in another thread, but for now... yes, the 20D can do 5fps. You need to be in "continuous drive" mode. More info about the menus, etc. in the manual, or here (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos20d/page4.asp) at dpreview.

[claudermilk]

Just make sure you can get a shutter of at least 1/max fps. Basically anything that is handholdable is fast enough as you get into the 1/focal length rule of thumb way before this.

BTW, yes the 20D is 5fps, and I have rarely run into situations where the shutter is too slow (those few occasions being sudden lower-lighting in a stage performance--and the whole series is blown anyway due to blur from both camera shake & performer movement).

Edit: Sheesh, are we all online now? You guys both posted while I was!


I'm thinking maybe a clandestine-to-the-wife stock sale... :thumb
If only I had stock to sell for it... I'll be watching the effect on used Mk IIN prices and possibly 1D Mk II (and hopefully be able to scrape up the cash for one). Hmmm, home improvement...camera...home improvement...camera. That dog house doesn't look TOO cold & the dog gets to sleep inside at night anyway... :scratch And back in the real world my 20D is still chugging along just fine & I can produce just as good of an image as my buddy shooting the 1Ds Mk II.

[Nimai]

And back in the real world my 20D is still chugging along just fine & I can produce just as good of an image as my buddy shooting the 1Ds Mk II.*_* I bought a 30D less than a year ago. I have absolutely no business lusting over the MIII. No business at all!! :rofl

[Rhuarc]

*_* I bought a 30D less than a year ago. I have absolutely no business lusting over the MIII. No business at all!! :rofl

Doesn't stop it from happening though!!

[ivar]

Doesn't stop it from happening though!!To be honest, this thing doesn't put the cream in my twinkie.... I dunno, i guess it depends on what you are shooting.

[wxwax]

To be honest, this thing doesn't put the cream in my twinkie..:huh

[natephoto]

Thanks for the replies guys! Sorry, guess I should have put it in a different topic. Lession learned,, I'll check out the other topic for more questions and to check out the info there. I've definitely done the full 5 fps for some sports,, just wanted some info on it.

Thanks for the help!
Nate

[Nimai]

Get ready for some Mark I's to hit the flea market! :wink

[BBones]

hmmm....happy with the performance of my existing 1D Mark 2, prices of the N version are dropping, I have 2 batteries for my Mark 2.

Do I get a cheaper costing 1D Mark 2 N, or do I spend more for the 1D Mark 3 and buy a second battery also?

dilemas

[wxwax]

Personally, the N has never been tempting. Not enough added features, although a larger screen would be nice.

The III, however... :drool

[ziggy53]

Personally, the N has never been tempting. Not enough added features, although a larger screen would be nice.

The III, however... :drool
:agree The Canon 1D MKIII is more enticing to me than the 5D or even the 1Ds or 1Ds MKII. The pixel count is fine at 10MP, but the combined feature set of the 1D MKIII is just amazing.

Just watch, there will be a 1Ds MKIII that will knock your socks off. :clap

[BBones]

True the N has never been a show stopper, but it would be a new camera (remember my shutter click question before) and the N uses the same batteries so I could swap between them instead of one set of batteries for the Mark 2 and another set with the Mark 3. The Mark 2 would become my "short" camera and backup body and the 3 or N would be my "long" lens body and primary cam.

Nothing will be decided I think until May though when I have some spare cash. But I definately need a second body to come with me on a trip that I am taking in early June. Far to important to go there with a single body.

[Mike02]

Big deal, Nikon's had this camera available for years, I believe they call it the D50 ;P

[BBones]

So when does it become available and who will have it in stock first? Think I am going to go for it (the mark 3) but I'll need it before the end of May.

[ziggy53]

So when does it become available and who will have it in stock first? Think I am going to go for it (the mark 3) but I'll need it before the end of May.

There are no pre-production models available for review yet, and production usually follows that.* The Canon site only says, "Scheduled for initial U.S. shipments in Spring, ..." and they have not announced a firm price yet. It could be a couple of months before first deliveries of the camera arrive.

(*Sometimes a camera is released directly as "production", but normally pre-production models make the rounds of the big review sites and selected testers, allowing any last-minute wrinkles to be ironed out before final production. Since the 1D MKIII has a completely new imager and chassis, I expect a full round of pre-production to occur.)

[BBones]

Thanks Ziggy for spilling it direct. Saw another board with people asking similarly and it turned into a babble and "well I heard..." thread.

Guess I will keep my fingers crossed for someone having it in stock before May 25th. I have a very inportant shoot (for me) coming up on June 2nd through the 8th and I don't want to go to it with only one camera body.

[rutt]

So when does it become available and who will have it in stock first? Think I am going to go for it (the mark 3) but I'll need it before the end of May.

Try calling Jeff Hirsch at Fotocare (http://www.fotocare.com/) in NYC. He usually has stuff like this as soon as anybody and he's a pleasure to deal with if can stand to pay full price (you'll have to wait a little while to get a discount on this camera, I would guess, so might as well buy from Jeff.)

In fact, even if you don't call him, do visit his website. And dream of being a pro with a rather large equipment budget...

[patch29]

I was able to handle a 1D mkIII today at a tradeshow. It is a very nice camera. That big screen, lighter weight and viewfinder display are all very nice. :thumb

Time to start saving. :deal

[ziggy53]

I was able to handle a 1D mkIII today at a tradeshow. It is a very nice camera. That big screen, lighter weight and viewfinder display are all very nice. :thumb

Time to start saving. :deal

Any word on availability?

[Nikolai]

Any word on availability?

Last I heard - mid-June. :dunno

[ziggy53]

Any word on availability?

YeeHaw*,

B&H has the Canon 1D MKIII listed on their site with an estimated May delivery. The price is $1100USD more than the 1D MKIIN. That should drive away all the poor folk like me. :cry

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=6222&A=details&Q=&sku=484813&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

(*Yep, I was born in Texas.)

[ian408]

Last I heard - mid-June. :dunno

I heard this the other day too.

[patch29]

Any word on availability?


I asked the rep if Mid-May was still likely and he said it was, but who really knows. :dunno

[ziggy53]

YeeHaw*,

B&H has the Canon 1D MKIII listed on their site with an estimated May delivery. The price is $1100USD more than the 1D MKIIN. That should drive away all the poor folk like me. :cry

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=6222&A=details&Q=&sku=484813&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation

(*Yep, I was born in Texas.)

Today Adorama has it listed. Same price as B&H, similar availability notice (May).

http://www.adorama.com/ICA1DM3.html

[rutt]

Jeff Hirsch says Fotocare will have by the end of May, not sooner. He usually gets new stuff as soon as anyone else if not sooner, so I don't suppose I'll have mine in time to shoot the last Boston Ballet performances of the season. But soon enough to take to the beach in Nantucket.

[kdog]

I think it's great you early adopters are going to help Canon work out the kinks with them before I get mine. :deal

[wxwax]

I think it's great you early adopters are going to help Canon work out the kinks with them before I get mine. :deal
:lol3 The same thought has drifted across the landscape of my mind.

[Seamus]

training videos for mk111 (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/masterclass.do)

[patch29]

A first look at the Canon EOS-1D Mark III

Sunday, April 22, 2007 | by Rob Galbraith

find it here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8738-8908).

[ziggy53]

find it here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8738-8908).

Good catch. Great camera! :thumb:thumb

[Nikolai]

find it here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-8738-8908).

Great review! Thanks for sharing! :thumb

[Antonio Correia]

Videos (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/masterclass.do)

[momv630]

Anyone hear when it's coming out? I've got my pre-order in but no one knows and I'm just busting at the seams here. :dunno

[ziggy53]

Anyone hear when it's coming out? I've got my pre-order in but no one knows and I'm just busting at the seams here. :dunno

B&H still say delivery estimated to start in May, but Adorama has changed their predictions to June, with limited availability at that.

Time for some "comfort food"? :wink

[thebigsky]

Should we expect a 1ds Mk III any time soon? I'm not familiar with Canon's product replacement cycles, any Dgrinners have more of a feel for these things?

Charlie

[patch29]

Luminous Landscape offers a first impression (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1D-MKIII-Field.shtml) of the mark III.

[ziggy53]

Luminous Landscape offers a first impression (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1D-MKIII-Field.shtml) of the mark III.

Thanks Patch,

That camera is on my "Must have" list. Oh "WOW", what a camera!:thumb:thumb:thumb

[natephoto]

training videos for mk111 (http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/masterclass.do)

is anyone getting the audio on these videos? it comes in as static on my computer.. using firefox.:dunno

[ziggy53]

is anyone getting the audio on these videos? it comes in as static on my computer.. using firefox.:dunno

Works fine on my, rather ancient, Internet computer.

Firefox/1.5.0.11
Windows Millennium Edition
Celeron 600mHz
128M RAM
Crystal WDM Audio Codec

[cwphotos]

Millenium edition........ ugh. I feel for you. :huh

[jdryan3]

Luminous Landscape offers a first impression (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/1D-MKIII-Field.shtml) of the mark III.

Considering the size of the sample I am really impressed by the lack of noise at ISO 1600 & even 3200.

[ziggy53]

Millenium edition........ ugh. I feel for you. :huh

Me too. :doh

[David_S85]

Me too. :doh

Ziggy should feel proud with Millenium running. My "other" office machine has Win95.

[kdog]

Works fine on my, rather ancient, Internet computer.

Firefox/1.5.0.11
Windows Millennium Edition
Celeron 600mHz
128M RAM
Crystal WDM Audio Codec
Good for you for not getting all caught up in the hype. If it works for you, then stick with it. I'm of course assuming that you have another machine for processing pictures, right?

-joel

[ziggy53]

Good for you for not getting all caught up in the hype. If it works for you, then stick with it. I'm of course assuming that you have another machine for processing pictures, right?

-joel

I have 1 machine dedicated to photography:

Intel P4, 3GHz 524
1G RAM
160GB SATA HD
DVD±RW DL LightScribe drive
IEEE 1394
Integrated Media Card Reader
Win XP MCE

... and I have 2 machines dedicated to DV video processing.

[Milan]

is anyone getting the audio on these videos? it comes in as static on my computer.. using firefox.:dunno

I have the same problem using Safari...

[kdog]

I have 1 machine dedicated to photography:

Intel P4, 3GHz 524
1G RAM
160GB SATA HD
DVD±RW DL LightScribe drive
IEEE 1394
Integrated Media Card Reader
Win XP MCE

... and I have 2 machines dedicated to DV video processing.
That's a little more like it. :D That's the same set up as me, but I have four disk drives on it.

Two more machines for video processing? You must do this for a living.

Cheers,
-joel

[natephoto]

Yea,, seems like it's not working for mac.... :dunno

[David_S85]

Back to this new magic camera. What Dgrinner has it? Reports? Review? Pictures from it?

And more importantly, can I borrow it? :D

[ziggy53]

Back to this new magic camera. What Dgrinner has it? Reports? Review? Pictures from it?

And more importantly, can I borrow it? :D

It looks like June 2007 for shipping of the first full production units. I haven't been able to find any reviews for the full-production models yet, everything is still "previews".

[Belg]

Canon could hurry up a bit... :)

[digital_gopher]

I know the camera is showing up. The photo guy at the Minnesota Thunder game on saturday was using one, he just received it that day. Didn't get a chance to look at it very closely, he was busy working.

http://JRTM.smugmug.com/photos/157223240-M.jpg

Jeremy

[Nimai]

Important Notice!
This item is temporarily not available. We have no estimated arrival date at this time.

... and to add salt to the wound, click on "Notify when in stock", and get:

"Due to unprecedented consumer interest we are unable to add any additional correspondents to this list. Thank you for your understanding." :huh

Wow!

[momv630]

I have a preorder in (ordered it on 4/27) and was told they should have it in by the first week of June.... hopefully. :dunno