iPhoto '05 Impressions

[DavidTO]

I thought I'd start a thread where we could all talk about the new iPhoto.

I was lucky enough to be able to install it today, 2 days before the official release. Here's my initial take on it:

Nicer than iPhoto 4, but still no replacement for your RAW processor, or iView Media Pro.

Nice clean interface. Keywords are much improved, searching by criteria is nice, smart albums is nice, too.

Processing RAW as we all know, is processor intensive. Since iPhoto's making all the changes live, and apparently not as optimized for speed as the app I'm used to, Capture One, it's slow. Not that Capture One is a speed demon, but it doesn't fully process the image unless you're using the sharpening tool. It takes short-cuts to speed the preview of your changes, and that works well. Apparently, iPhoto doesn't, and this is most likely a function of it's streamlined approach--all settings, including sharpening are viewed in the one image, so it must be fully rendered. This makes adjusting it a pain. You can't type in values for a given slider, and I was never able to get one back to 0 without resetting all.

It's a little faster and more useful for JPEGs, and would be nice for quick adjustments, but it's certainly no replacement for PS or Elements.

In short, in the brief period that I've had with it (I AM at work, ya know), iPhoto is an improvement, but still not a replacement for pro apps.

[gregneil]

I agree.

What's been nice for me is having all the thumbnails accessible from the editing window so I don't have to go back to "organize" to find the next photo to crop. I also like being able to make nested folders, save slideshows and mpeg movies, and quickly search with the calendar viewer.

I think it's the best iPhoto upgrade so far. But it's still not intended to be a photoshop replacement. And pro users will always have things to gripe about. I have to decide if I'm going to ditch it soon and get iView. I suspect I will...

[mercphoto]

Will iPhoto allow you to put the comments into the EXIF data so that Smugmug will see it upon upload? I've tried Caption Buddy, but with limited success.

I don't use iPhoto to edit photos. I use it to sort, rank, and organize photos. One thing I like, that IVMP can't do, is the smart albums. The other thing I like, which IVMP can't do, is rating photos. When I put the two together, smart albums with rankings, I find it very easy to sort through a day's photos and have a smart album of those photos I deemed the best. Quick and easy. Then name the smart album the same as a Smugmug gallery and upload. Easy.

What I want out of iPhoto 5 is EXIF support, and a more responsive slide show (which is where I do my ratings). Will I be happy with 5?

[gregneil]

The slideshow does seem more responsive. I was able to use it to quickly navigate through a photo shoot and rate images. Seemed much faster than 4. I don't know about the EXIF, though, I haven't played with that at all.

[DavidTO]

I don't know about the EXIF, though, I haven't played with that at all.

I don't see any change in EXIF.

[fish]

My iLife 05 should show up tomorrow. Can't wait to play with it.
I still have two days left on my iVMP demo. I really really don't want to pay the 200 bones to keep it.

Since I've already got C1, I'm not all that concerned about processing RAW images. But I *am* quite interested that I can catalog them, unprocessed, in iPhoto. And of course the nested folders, smart albums, etc, etc.

If I can take time out to play with it after it arrives tomorrow, I'll post my thoughts here.

[DavidTO]

My iLife 05 should show up tomorrow. Can't wait to play with it.
I still have two days left on my iVMP demo. I really really don't want to pay the 200 bones to keep it.

Since I've already got C1, I'm not all that concerned about processing RAW images. But I *am* quite interested that I can catalog them, unprocessed, in iPhoto. And of course the nested folders, smart albums, etc, etc.

If I can take time out to play with it after it arrives tomorrow, I'll post my thoughts here.

The thing about the cataloging unprocessed RAW photos is that you'll never be sure (I don't think) whether iPhoto's making a jpeg copy, like for mailing, printing, etc. It's great for a neophyte, but for any of us, the blindness of not knowing if you've got a jpeg copy of your RAW file or not seems wrong. Could bloat your library unecessarily.

Nested folders and smart albums ARE cool.

[DavidTO]

Not off to a good start on my machine...

[DavidTO]

Just want to note that my speed issues are on my 1gig TiBook, I have not run iPhoto 5 on the dual G5. Maybe a G5 is required for it to work really well?

[mercphoto]

Was wondering, will the hierarchial folder feature of iPhoto 5 (or any other new feature) require an update to the Smugmug loader?

[fish]

I've been playing with iPhoto 5 for about half an hour now, so it's time to weigh in...


Nicer than iPhoto 4, but still no replacement for your RAW processor, or iView Media Pro.
Not so sure about that, David. I've only processed one RAW image so far, but it's pretty much got everything Capture One has. I'll need to spend more time working with the two side-by-side to really make a call on that. As far as cataloging, speed seems to be improved over iPhoto5, at least on my G5 iMac. Nesting folders and smart albums are da BOMB.


Nice clean interface. Keywords are much improved, searching by criteria is nice, smart albums is nice, too.
Searching is a major improvement. The calendar view is great too. "I'm pretty sure I got pics of that egret back in March 02", so I click on the March 2002 calendar and there are all the images I took that month. I can even narrow it down to the day.

Processing RAW as we all know, is processor intensive. Since iPhoto's making all the changes live, and apparently not as optimized for speed as the app I'm used to, Capture One, it's slow. Not that Capture One is a speed demon, but it doesn't fully process the image unless you're using the sharpening tool. It takes short-cuts to speed the preview of your changes, and that works well. Apparently, iPhoto doesn't, and this is most likely a function of it's streamlined approach--all settings, including sharpening are viewed in the one image, so it must be fully rendered. This makes adjusting it a pain.
Works pretty fast on my G5. It's nice to see the changes to the image as you make them, rather than on a clunky preview (as in C1).

You can't type in values for a given slider, and I was never able to get one back to 0 without resetting all.

I couldn't duplicate that problem. No, you can't type in a value, but if you click on the little icons at either end of the slider, it will increment or decrement the value of the slider...right back to 0 (or whatever the default is).


It's a little faster and more useful for JPEGs, and would be nice for quick adjustments, but it's certainly no replacement for PS or Elements.
Agreed. I've got it set to open in Elements when I double-click an image.

In short, in the brief period that I've had with it (I AM at work, ya know), iPhoto is an improvement, but still not a replacement for pro apps.
Maybe and maybe not. I think it's going to be up to personal preference. At this point, I will not be coughing up the $200 for iVMP and actually just trashed the demo app and catalogs. I'm free at last!! :)

More on this as I play with it, but so far...fish likes iPhoto5 a LOT.

I give it 4/5 thumbs.
:thumb:thumb:thumb:thumb

I would have given it a fifth if there had been upgrade pricing, but that's a nit. You get a hellofa set of apps for not that much money. I gotta run to the store, but when I get back I'm going to test out the archive to DVD functionality...woohoo! I pity the fools on PCs
:super

[DavidTO]

I've only processed one RAW image so far, but it's pretty much got everything Capture One has.
Hard to say, since you're comparing it with Capture One LE, and I've got the Pro version. Can't expect it to compare to the Pro version, and I've never worked with LE, so I don't know what you're comparing. The biggest thing that I can't believe is missing is a gray point slider for the histogram.

No, you can't type in a value, but if you click on the little icons at either end of the slider, it will increment or decrement the value of the slider...right back to 0 (or whatever the default is).

Well, shiver me timbers. Shoulda thunk of that one.


Fish, you're right on a lot of points, and especially about personal preference. The one thing that I can't get past is the lack of control I have over where my media's stored and whether the app makes a copy of it or not. Also, if you go in and start to make changes to a pic in Edit mode, how do you leave edit without changing the image, like if you changed your mind and feel you got it right the first time?

[fish]

Hard to say, since you're comparing it with Capture One LE, and I've got the Pro version. Can't expect it to compare to the Pro version, and I've never worked with LE, so I don't know what you're comparing. The biggest thing that I can't believe is missing is a gray point slider for the histogram.
I don't think LE has that one...in fact, I'm not even sure what it is. :lol3



Well, shiver me timbers. Shoulda thunk of that one. (clicking icons)
Works really well on the exposure comp. Tickle a little here...a little there...no too much...tickle back. boom. nice.


Fish, you're right on a lot of points, and especially about personal preference. The one thing that I can't get past is the lack of control I have over where my media's stored and whether the app makes a copy of it or not.
Well, yeah...that's true about the storage bit, but in the big scheme of things, I don't really care, as long as I can find it.

Also, if you go in and start to make changes to a pic in Edit mode, how do you leave edit without changing the image, like if you changed your mind and feel you got it right the first time?
Easy peasy...select the thumbnail, pull down Photos / Duplicate and it copies the image for you to play with, leaving the original alone.:1drink

[Andy]

sounds interesting... i'm on de fone with apple now asking them to ship me ilife with iphoto.

[fish]

sounds interesting... i'm on de fone with apple now asking them to ship me ilife with iphoto.
You should have iLife04 on your system (part of OS X), so you can play with iPhoto now. The upgrade is easy.

[Andy]

You should have iLife04 on your system (part of OS X), so you can play with iPhoto now. The upgrade is easy.

yeah... i'm on da fone now trying to finagle an upgrade :D

[DavidTO]

Easy peasy...select the thumbnail, pull down Photos / Duplicate and it copies the image for you to play with, leaving the original alone.:1drink

I mean what if I want to back out of a change, leaving the image alone? I know you can revert to original, but you can't, as far as I can see, back out of an edit without committing to it.

[Andy]

yeah... i'm on da fone now trying to finagle an upgrade :D

went thru website it was easier.... got ilife shipping for cost of shipping / pgking only, $19.95

:clap thanks guys

[fish]

I mean what if I want to back out of a change, leaving the image alone? I know you can revert to original, but you can't, as far as I can see, back out of an edit without committing to it.
Not sure I understand. You can't use undo?

[DavidTO]

Not sure I understand. You can't use undo?

Unless I'm missing something, undo goes back one step in Edit mode. I'm looking for an "ah, forget the whole thing" button. To simply leave the photo untouched.

[fish]

Unless I'm missing something, undo goes back one step in Edit mode. I'm looking for an "ah, forget the whole thing" button. To simply leave the photo untouched. revert to original? oh that's right...you tried that. i'll play with it some.


in other news, i'm archiving my 6.3gb iphoto library to dvd now. unfortunately, it doesn't automatically span disks. but it is pretty good about telling you how many photos you can burn to a disk. easy enough and it works. no toast for me.

Edit: okay, this rocks. I archived the library in iPhoto format. When I insert one of the DVDs, it opens iPhoto, and shows a new library on the disk. This is just too cool.

[DavidTO]

revert to original? oh that's right...you tried that. i'll play with it some.


in other news, i'm archiving my 6.3gb iphoto library to dvd now. unfortunately, it doesn't automatically span disks. but it is pretty good about telling you how many photos you can burn to a disk. easy enough and it works. no toast for me.

Edit: okay, this rocks. I archived the library in iPhoto format. When I insert one of the DVDs, it opens iPhoto, and shows a new library on the disk. This is just too cool.

Yes, that is cool. Not new, though.

[fish]

Yes, that is cool. Not new, though.
so? it's still cool. :D

[fish]

Okie dokie...another new feature that you won't know about unless you search through the help system.

You can have multiple iPhoto libraries. Yes, you could have that in the previous version, but you had to rename your files. With iPhoto 5, you hold down the option key while opening iPhoto and it asks you to browse for libraries or create a new one. That totally rocks.

It just keeps getting better and better.:clap

[fish]

It may be my imagination, but as I recall, iPhoto4 automatically rotated images, no? In any event, iPhoto5 does not.

[DavidTO]

Allright, Fish. That's it. I'm gonna go back and look at this damn thing one last time, and decide once and for all if I'm gonna use it. Your enthusiasm is intriguing. I'm trying, I'm trying.

I do remember iPhoto 4 splitting libraries across DVDs. Am I wrong? Hmm. When I did use it, I kept a separate library for each year, using iPhoto Library Manager.

[DavidTO]

You know, I remember that I was very happy with iPhoto 4 until I started shooting RAW....

[DavidTO]

Fish, I just can't do it. Too slow on my powerbook. I tried. I really tried.

[fish]

Fish, I just can't do it. Too slow on my powerbook. I tried. I really tried.
G3? I haven't tried it on my G4 powerbook yet, but I will (i got the family pack).


I ran into a very frustrating problem last night that had my pulling what's left of my hair out and even called apple tech support. As I started playing with older images in iPhoto, they wouldn't open in PS, preview, or iPhoto edit window. Turns out the original images were GONE! Vanished. Poof! Only thing left were the thumbnails. I thought iPhoto5 ate them. This morning, over my first cup of coffee, it occurred to me that I had imported my iPhoto library into iVMP, and I think it sucked the images out of the iPhoto folders. I've got a case# and I'm going to call Apple again to escalate today. Fortunately, I had copied about 90% of my library over to fishwife's imac, so I copied it back and I'm pretty much good to go.
:dunno

[DavidTO]

G3? I haven't tried it on my G4 powerbook yet, but I will (i got the family pack).



No, 1ghz G4.

the slowness probably has little to do with processor, anyway. It's that when I edit, either in iP or PS, it makes a dupe of the shot. So I gotta wait while it does that. And then wait again when it saves the changes. Fine for a shot here or there, but I was editing 30 last night, and just got too frustrated waiting around.

[DavidTO]

I ran into a very frustrating problem last night that had my pulling what's left of my hair out and even called apple tech support. As I started playing with older images in iPhoto, they wouldn't open in PS, preview, or iPhoto edit window. Turns out the original images were GONE! Vanished. Poof! Only thing left were the thumbnails. I thought iPhoto5 ate them. This morning, over my first cup of coffee, it occurred to me that I had imported my iPhoto library into iVMP, and I think it sucked the images out of the iPhoto folders. I've got a case# and I'm going to call Apple again to escalate today. Fortunately, I had copied about 90% of my library over to fishwife's imac, so I copied it back and I'm pretty much good to go.
:dunno

Fish, you're having some bad luck. Or perhaps it's operator error?

iView doesn't suck images when you import them, just catalogs them. Or maybe I should just say iView doesn't suck? iPhoto libraries can get corrupt, but you're saying that you dug in and looked for the images, and they're gone at the finder level?

[fish]

but you're saying that you dug in and looked for the images, and they're gone at the finder level?
That's correct.

[Baldy]

Was wondering, will the hierarchial folder feature of iPhoto 5 (or any other new feature) require an update to the Smugmug loader?We have someone working on the smugmug uploader, so if it needs anything like that, it's a good time to speak up.

Our top priorities currently are login/logout so you can use it to upload to a second account, individual file upload status, and gallery creation from the uploader.

[DavidTO]

We have someone working on the smugmug uploader, so if it needs anything like that, it's a good time to speak up.

Our top priorities currently are login/logout so you can use it to upload to a second account, individual file upload status, and gallery creation from the uploader.

All good ideas. I'd love to see a queue that you can re-order, delete.

Also, the iPhoto/Files option should be a pref, so that it will open where I want it to, instead of having to switch to files. Ugh.

Glad to hear there's an update coming!

[fish]

Our top priorities currently are login/logout so you can use it to upload to a second account, individual file upload status, and gallery creation from the uploader. Gee...all those things sound very familiar. Strangely, I haven't rec'd my complimentary Smugmug sweatshirt in XL. :dunno











:lol3

Happily, the same uploader works wonderfully well with just plain folders.

[fish]

** Warning ** ** Warning ** ** Warning **


Before upgrading from iPhoto4 to iPhoto5, make sure you backup your images!

** Warning ** ** Warning ** ** Warning **

I just got off the phone with Apple 2nd level tech support, and my images are gone. Poof. Ain't coming back. They're escalating to engineering. Fortunately, not only do I have a backup, but I've got iView MediaPro setup and current as of a few days ago.

While iPhoto5 is a great feature-rich application that will work for 99% of users, it didn't work for me. I don't know why. Apple doesn't know why.

Soooo...I'm going to buy the license for iVMP (and Toast 6) and I'm outta this thread.

:hang

[DavidTO]

Soooo...I'm going to buy the license for iVMP (and Toast 6) and I'm outta this thread.



But Fish, who'll I argue with?

[dkapp]

I will probably pass on iPhoto 05. I don't have any of the iLife applications installed, and no real need for them. I wish it was sold as a stand alone application :(

I just can't see spending $80 on iPhoto.

Dave

[patch29]

[left] Soooo...I'm going to buy the license for iVMP (and Toast 6) and I'm outta this thread.

Did you already buy it? I think if I remember I bought Toast 5 it came with a discount for iview, do a quick search and you might find you can save a few bucks. I don't know if Toast 6 comes with the iview discount or not. :dunno

[Andy]

according to iphoto website,

http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/cameras.html

the canon 1Ds MarkII raws are not supported yet. and, i just verified that, by trying it on iphoto5. how long does apple usually take to add support for new formats?

[DavidTO]

according to iphoto website,

http://www.apple.com/macosx/upgrade/cameras.html

the canon 1Ds MarkII raws are not supported yet. and, i just verified that, by trying it on iphoto5. how long does apple usually take to add support for new formats?

It won't be too soon, I don't think. Are you liking iPhoto enough to change your workflow around it? If you just want to use it for slideshows, etc, then I would just import the select shots you want for that select purpose.

[Andy]

It won't be too soon, I don't think. Are you liking iPhoto enough to change your workflow around it? If you just want to use it for slideshows, etc, then I would just import the select shots you want for that select purpose.

well, i don't know, becuase i cannot try the raw thing..... fwiw i submitted feedback to apple on it.

[DavidTO]

well, i don't know, becuase i cannot try the raw thing..... fwiw i submitted feedback to apple on it.

Well, in iPhoto the difference between processing RAW and JPEG are minimal--the controls are identical.

If you'd like, I can send you a 20D file, which iPhoto will process, and you could play with that.

But I'd say: don't bother. For your workflow and level of expertise, it just doesn't make sense.

I haven't tried it, but I've read that you can't open the RAW in PS, that iPhoto will always send the JPEG there. There's a dozen reasons why it's not right for you, and the only one that you could argue in your favor--simplicity--is only simple for those with simple needs. The simplicity built into iPhoto will actually complicate your life if you're shooting RAW (which you are).

The only people who have reached intermediate to advanced levels that I would recommend iPhoto to are those who shoot JPEG. It works for that.

[mercphoto]

the canon 1Ds MarkII raws are not supported yet. and, i just verified that, by trying it on iphoto5. how long does apple usually take to add support for new formats?

Nobody really knows, because Apple has never supported RAW formats before. This is new for them. However, this is an excellent reason to be a proponent of the DNG format. When a new camera comes out, if that camera supports DNG, then that camera immediately works with all raw converters, with all editing software, with all digital wallets, you get the idea.

Andy, does the Adobe DNG converter work with your camera yet? If so, convert the raw files to the DNG raw format. Next question, does iPhoto 5 support DNG as well?