What to focus on when straightening?

[§imone]

Last night I ventured out for my 1st night shoot.
Had fun, group of boys being boys on a night out & showing a pom a good
time wanted pic taken lol. Anyway tooks some shots of one of the clubs in town. This place is built on hill, slight incline on driveway in & the garden is in layers.

So my question is, when straighting pic, what does one focus on, the building or whats in foreground, or does it all come down to personal preference? (jeez does that make sence?) lol

Example 1 - Flag & light poles straight
http://www.photo.net.au/members/d/11761-1/club_mulwala_1.jpg

Example 2 - building straight
http://www.photo.net.au/members/d/11764-1/club_mulwala_2.jpg

[jfriend]

Last night I ventured out for my 1st night shoot.
Had fun, group of boys being boys on a night out & showing a pom a good
time wanted pic taken lol. Anyway tooks some shots of one of the clubs in town. This place is built on hill, slight incline on driveway in & the garden is in layers.

So my question is, when straighting pic, what does one focus on, the building or whats in foreground, or does it all come down to personal preference? (jeez does that make sence?)

When people are viewing pictures, their brain evaluates certain things in a photo that they know should be true. If those things are true, then the picture will feel straight. Here are some things that the brain expects:

Distant horizons (like ocean/lake horizons) are level.
Man made structures like buildings near the center of the picture should be level.
Things in the middle of the picture that are normally built straight up should appear straight up.
Things cutting across a picture and going away from you or toward you should have some perspective to them, even if they are actually level.
Vertical things near the left or right edge often have some perspective and appear to slope outwards.So, applying these guidelines, I think viewers would expect the roofline of the large building in the back to be level and they'd expect the flagpole in the middle to be straight up and down. They would expect that there will some perspective in the walls in the foreground because they are coming towards you and you're looking a little down on them. So, I'd straighten the roofline of the large background building and the center flagpole. Hopefully, the other lightpoles near the center would also be straight up and down.

[§imone]

:dunno thought my 2 examples clearly showed that. Also was actaully looking up, taken from street level
pic 1 poles are straight, pic 2 building is, but poles are not.

[jdryan3]

Simone -
I agree with John on the priorities. They are excellent guidelines, but they are only guidelines. In your examples obviously the first looks askew. In the second the building may be technically straight but it looks (or is perceived) to be slanted since the middle pole is off. So split the difference, and adjust from there. You also have a 3rd element there with the sloping wall below the grass, cutting across a different angle.

Back in my rehab days of old houses, sometimes a level line would not match up at a joint (and looked 'unlevel'). But if you did it to absolutley match a joint and stepped back it looked wrong that way. So we split the difference and it usually worked. I guess that 2 wrongs then did make it LOOK right. :thumb

[§imone]

Thanks Dave & John for your input. I get, understand & knew what John is saying & I did split the difference, still looked all wrong. Guess the fact the building is actualy built into the hill & on an angle doesnt help. ( not parrallel to the curb )

[wxwax]

The first one looks fine. I use verticals, you can't trust horizontals.

[Stustaff]

Number 2 doesnt look right because the building is clearly NOT straight! for this shot I would of gone with the building, its in the middle distance and WILL of been built flat!

look at this image on it the red line is straight on the left side it is level with the building floor, by the time it gets to the right side it is well above the floor level. I added the blue line to show better the floor line that you should have straight, if that were straight it would of also made in this case the pole straightish.

http://stuarthill.smugmug.com/photos/128867906-L.jpg

I would never straighten this pic on the pole as due to wind forces over time poles like this are rarely if ever straight.

[rutt]

The first one looks fine. I use verticals, you can't trust horizontals.

This is exactly what I do as well.

[Stustaff]

This is exactly what I do as well.

yeh but im sure not ANY vertical! in his first example with the vertical poles straight the building is clearly not straight.

are you saying you would go on the first pic??

[wxwax]

yeh but im sure not ANY vertical! in his first example with the vertical poles straight the building is clearly not straight.

are you saying you would go on the first pic??
Absolutely. Why not? Even with a wide angle, the vertical in the center of the shot should be straight. Use that as a guide. There's no reason to believe that any horizontal should be level. Perspective affects horizontals, not verticals.

Truth be told, the middle flagpole in the first shot is a wee bit off. But in the second shot, it's even further off, in the other direction.

Here's a crop of the first image, with a grid on it. See how the pole is slight off center? You only need to make a small adjustment, and the photo will be accurate.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/128923155-O.jpg

[Stustaff]

Absolutely. Why not? Even with a wide angle, the vertical in the center of the shot should be straight. Use that as a guide. There's no reason to believe that any horizontal should be level. Perspective affects horizontals, not verticals.

Truth be told, the middle flagpole in the first shot is a wee bit off. But in the second shot, it's even further off, in the other direction.

Here's a crop of the first image, with a grid on it. See how the pole is slight off center? You only need to make a small adjustment, and the photo will be accurate.



No sorry I dont agree! why SHOULD a flagpole be straight? you are choosing to use something as your guide that isnt straight in the first place, A flagpole is much less likely to be straight than a building floor!

[§imone]

Certainly given some something to talk about. As I said before the building is actualy built into the hill & on an angle, not parrallel to the curb.
In other words the left of the building is further away from you & the right side is closer to you . No matter where your standing @ street level or walking through the garden & memorial area down below @ front of building.

I ended up going with pic 1 & yes the flag pole was guide. Why because the whole garden, memorial area & yes all the poles are all within a year old. Been trying to find a day time shot to show just how much your looking up & the angle of building without having to go take one lol, but seems all the old pics before the redo are gone.

Thanks all for your input, & hope helps others in future.

[wxwax]

No sorry I dont agree! why SHOULD a flagpole be straight? you are choosing to use something as your guide that isnt straight in the first place, A flagpole is much less likely to be straight than a building floor!
Perspective makes a liar out of horizontals.

If the left of the building is further away than the right... do you really think the building floor will appear to be level horizontal?

No, of course not. It will appear to rise to the left.

Verticals are not subject to this kind of perspective "distortion." Think the flagpole is leaning? Then use the side of a building, or a wall. Any trustworthy vertical in the frame will do the job.

If you assume that even a single horizontal line in your image needs to be dead level, you'd be wrong. :deal

[Stustaff]

Perspective makes a liar out of horizontals.

If the left of the building is further away than the right... do you really think the building floor will appear to be level horizontal?

No, of course not. It will appear to rise to the left.

Verticals are not subject to this kind of perspective "distortion." Think the flagpole is leaning? Then use the side of a building, or a wall. Any trustworthy vertical in the frame will do the job.

If you assume that even a single horizontal line in your image needs to be dead level, you'd be wrong. :deal

Ah ok yes fair point, my issue is with using a flag pole and assuming that would be vertical! or 'trustworthy'.

Id never thought of the dangfer with art of the horizontal being further away though! cheers for that.