External storage (no, not the shed out back)

[wxwax]

So here's my thing. When I shoot, I shoot a lot. Like way, way too much. And I hate throwing any of it away. You never know, etc.

Take the above as a given. Ain't gonna change. Immutable.

So. I see myself as having four storage options.

First, the hard drive of my computer. Pros are quick access, easy access, one download and done. Cons are drive failure; that I'll eventually fill-up that sucker, then we're back to square one; and I'm not crazy about filling-up that sucker.

Second, a CD burner. Pros are unlimited storage and a proven format. Cons are PIA because each disk holds so little, will have to break shoots into batches, and messy storage - lotsa disks clutter.

Third, external hard drive. Pros are easy storage, easy access, small footprint, huge capacity. Cons are drive failure, and it will get full someday.

Fourth, DVD burner. Pros are large capacity per disk, unlimited storage, format sorta a known quantity. Cons are unknown lifespan of disks, clutter, one more step between me and my shots, delay while writing to disk.

Which option would you choose? Do you even care which I chose?

[toolman]

Well, it seems like they are so important to you, that you might want to opt for couple.

My dad is attorney (in Yugoslavia) and he is anal about keeping all the documents, kinda like you and your pictures. So he has same copies, on hard drive, floppy disks, cd's and of cours paper. He is happy with 4 back-ups.

The question is how many backups does make you happy? :)

If I had to chose just one I'd go with DVD's. you'll be able to orgainze them well, and there is no storage limir, exept or the size of your basement/garage.

good luck.

[wxwax]

Oooh, you're good. But I'm not giving away my secret just yet. :beer

[fish]

Oooh, you're good. But I'm not giving away my secret just yet. :beer

I just went through this over the past 24 hours. I stuff all my photos on my internal drive, and then I bought an external USB2.0 drive that I use for backup. Easy and fast. Optical disks are slow and cumbersome.

[wxwax]

Are you worried about HD failure? I'm guessing you don't shoot in enough volume to worry about using up the storage space.

[fish]

Are you worried about HD failure? I'm guessing you don't shoot in enough volume to worry about using up the storage space.

Sure I'm worried about HD failure, which is why I bough an external drive. I'm using it exclusively for backing up my 60gb internal. When the internal fills up, I'll add another one, and add another external to back it up.

[gus]

Man i must be from another planet.....i pay Baldy to keep 'em nice & safe.

[dakar92]

I've started following Scott Kelby's suggestion in his Photoshop Elements for Digital Photographers book. He suggests, before doing anything to your photos, you copy them to a CD. Then you treat these as your negatives. He then walks you through how to make a contact sheet to slip into the cover of the CD. I've just started doing it, but I think I like it. It only takes a few minutes to copy, the disks cost $0.40 each or less, and you have a stable backup.

Right now, I'm also saving my better photos in the original form to the internal hard drive and I save the changes (cropping, sharpening, etc.) I make to photos as a separate file.

I only use a 512 MB compact flash card, so it is no problem filling up the card and dumping the whole card to a CD. If I used a larger card, perhaps this method would be cumbersome.

[wxwax]

I like Kelby's suggestion, and I hadn't thought about printing a contact sheet. The thing with a CD or DVD is that using them involves one more step than the ease of a hard drive - you have to organize the disks and insert them to get at your shots. But they're probably the best long term storage solution..

[pathfinder]

I've started following Scott Kelby's suggestion in his Photoshop Elements for Digital Photographers book. He suggests, before doing anything to your photos, you copy them to a CD. Then you treat these as your negatives. He then walks you through how to make a contact sheet to slip into the cover of the CD. I've just started doing it, but I think I like it. It only takes a few minutes to copy, the disks cost $0.40 each or less, and you have a stable backup.

Right now, I'm also saving my better photos in the original form to the internal hard drive and I save the changes (cropping, sharpening, etc.) I make to photos as a separate file.

I only use a 512 MB compact flash card, so it is no problem filling up the card and dumping the whole card to a CD. If I used a larger card, perhaps this method would be cumbersome.I do this too just - like Kelby suggested - but now i am getting a cabinet full of CD-Rs - I thought digital storage would be more compact than film - just bits, right - Wrong - I can see that storage of originals - while important - is going to take up a closet full of space .... And when you go to RAW the problem just gets worse - now 512Mb is not enough - you start to use bigger CF and now it takes 2 CD's http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/Wicked.gif

Just like I thought digital photography would be cheaper than film - no film or processing to buy - WRONG BIG time - I spend far more on my photo habit now for digital stuff than I ever did for film. But then I never bought many 11 x 14 inch prints and I print my own now.......

But my images are better and continue to improve - I think - so welcome to the brave new world!!http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/lickout.gif

As for archival storage - I think it needs to be off site in addition to on CD-R- that is not in your dwelling - like Smugmug - We don't ( most of us anyway) store our cash under a mattress anymore but in a bank - that is where we will ultimately store our data as well - in a digital bank.

I opened my Smugmug account after a simulatneous double hard disc failure - I saved most of my data - but that convinced me that I needed off site storage also.....

[ian408]

Fish, what's with this 60GB thing? I figured you'd be more like me and
insist on something in the neighborhood of 300G...

Ian

[wxwax]

Well, I know the suspense has been killing you. Here's my solution.

1/ I bought a reconditioned Sony DVD burner. External, USB2. That's for long term storage. When I'm ready, I'll burn the entire shoot to a disk.

2/ I got a 40 GB external hard drive, also USB 2. I'll use this as the way station. When the camera comes comes, the card(s) get dumped to the HD immediately. This frees the cards, lets me work on the images for a while, and then burn them to DVD.

Next up, finding a good DVD album. The B&H catalogue has a couple of options.

[fish]

Fish, what's with this 60GB thing? I figured you'd be more like me and
insist on something in the neighborhood of 300G...

Ian
my box is 18 months old. I'll add another bigger internal one of these days.

cd's are fine, but a) they aren't all that robust (easy to scratch, easy to break, and they rot); b) they are a frickin' hassle to store and access; c) drives are way way faster than CDs; and d) a 250gb hard drive will hold the equivalent of 350 CDs (or 50 DVDs). Which would you rather have? Instant access or "where the hell did disc #49 go?" Sure hard drives fail. So buy two and rotate backups.

[wxwax]

Why not DVD's for a permanent storage solution?

[fish]

Why not DVD's for a permanent storage solution?
no reason, other than once they're out of your computer, it'll be a hassle to access the images. obviously a lot of people us them. but with the price of fast, durable persistant storage at about a dollar per gig, there's no reason not to use it...in a redundant way. if you want to get slick about it, set up a full RAID strategy. but optical blows for access and speed.

[gus]

Someone is going to have to answer me or i'll chuck a tantrum.....why not use your smugmug account ?

[wxwax]

Humgussirtoymsd, it's because in a shoot I can easily fill a 256 card, come close to filling a 512 card. That's a ton of shots. Way too much to dump into smugmug.

Most of it is garbage, but it's my garbage, and I want to keep it. I never know when I might want to go back, make a better version of a shot, or discover a way to rescue something I had thought was unusuable.

What I post on smugmug is what I'm ready for the world to see: final, processed shots that are the best I can do at the time.

[komet]

no reason, other than once they're out of your computer, it'll be a hassle to access the images. obviously a lot of people us them. but with the price of fast, durable persistant storage at about a dollar per gig, there's no reason not to use it...in a redundant way. if you want to get slick about it, set up a full RAID strategy. but optical blows for access and speed.
Give us some examples of an external HD source. Pretty please?

[wxwax]

This is the one I was going to buy, before changing my strategy. The pic is a link.


http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00008MOPY.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00008MOPY/102-1031165-7480141?v=glance&s=electronics&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&vi=pictures&img=14#more-pictures)

[fish]

This is the one I was going to buy, before changing my strategy. The pic is a link.
That's a good one, and you can get them from about 40gb up to about 250mb (expect to pay a premium for the big/fast ones).

[komet]

That's a good one, and you can get them from about 40gb up to about 250mb (expect to pay a premium for the big/fast ones).
Good info...I have a CD Burner and A DVD player on my Sony...had thought about a DVD burner...but the external toy may be the ticket.

[fish]

a nice feature of the USB ext. drives is that you can just unplug it (hot swap) and put it in your safe, replacing it with another one. no discs, no jewel cases, no shoeboxes.

[wxwax]

No shoe box, no jewel cases, and room for contact sheets for easy reference. Up to 30 pages, 120 GB. :wink

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/240403.jpg

[komet]

a nice feature of the USB ext. drives is that you can just unplug it (hot swap) and put it in your safe, replacing it with another one. no discs, no jewel cases, no shoeboxes.
Is it P&P or do you need software? Let's say I had a computer at work/home/friends etc. TIA.

[fish]

Is it P&P or do you need software? Let's say I had a computer at work/home/friends etc. TIA.
as long as the pc is USB 2.0 enabled, it's plug & play (hot-swap, actually). You plug in the cable, computer sees the drive and boom...ready to go.

[wxwax]

Should just show up as another drive in "My Computer" - D, E, F, whatever, depending upon how many other external devices you have.

[DoctorIt]

Man i must be from another planet.....i pay Baldy to keep 'em nice & safe.I was just gonna say... Unlimited storage space. Go for it!

I'd agree with fish too. USB2.0 external hard drives are great. Spend a little more on a good one like a Maxtor and since its not running an OS like your internal drive, likelihood of failure is much much lower.

[patch29]

I do several things. The first thing I do before I open or convert any files is to burn them to a DVD. I use the DVD's in the thin cases so they do not take up too much room. I also have about 300GB of external HD space for storage that I keep current jobs on. Quick shots I burn to CD and store them in Tyvek sleeves to cut down on space. If I need archival quality I use Mitsui Gold CD-r's they are supposed to be the most archival. I continue to add HD space as needed. I do not upload all my files to smugmug simply because it would take so long to upload GB's of data, plus most of the files are RAW so they would not be very compatible.

[wxwax]

Kids, if you're thinking about buying an external hard drive, there's a great price to be had on buy.com.

They have the highly rated Maxtor 120BG drive for sale for $140 after a rebate. That's a great price. I just got the 40GB Maxtor, and it's dead silent, can't hear a thing.


Link (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10352856&adid=17051&dcaid=17051)

http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/856/10352856.jpg

[DoctorIt]

Kids, if you're thinking about buying an external hard drive, there's a great price to be had on buy.com.

They have the highly rated Maxtor 120BG drive for sale for $140 after a rebate. That's a great price. I just got the 40GB Maxtor, and it's dead silent, can't hear a thing.


Link (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10352856&adid=17051&dcaid=17051)

Damn, who needs pricewatch.com when we have waxy! :D

Now if only waxy would send me some money too, I'd be all set. Why do you tempt me so! I'm barely making ends meet this semester and I this close to buying that hard drive. Damn RAW files!!!

[wxwax]

Hey, I want it and I don't even need it!

[gus]

Kids, if you're thinking about buying an external hard drive, there's a great price to be had on buy.com.

They have the highly rated Maxtor 120BG drive for sale for $140 after a rebate. That's a great price. I just got the 40GB Maxtor, and it's dead silent, can't hear a thing.


Link (http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=10352856&adid=17051&dcaid=17051)

http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/856/10352856.jpg
So waxolus...can i use one of these instead of an internal H/D ? I stuff them so fast it would be much easier to have one i could just plug in....& im serious.

[wxwax]

Oh yeah, absolutely. If you have USB 2, maybe even Firewire, they're every bit as quick as your internal hard drive. I can't tell the difference, to be honest.

Fish talks about filling 'em up and buying new ones to replace them. I talk about sort of filling 'em up, but regularly cleaning out files by burning them to DVD.

That's why I don't think I need a 120 gig. I just bought a 40 gig which works great. And I figure I'll be burning stuff off to DVD way before I come close to filling it up. At least, I hope I do!