HELP! Taking pictures of Orchestra

[opus]

I'm very new. I bought a Canon Rebel XT, 17-55 Lens, Battery Grip, Canon Hood, Expo Disc (soon to buy WhiBal) and Minolta Light Meter and my pictures look like total crap. They're grainy and overexposed.

What is the proper way for me to figure out how to shoot a picture in the back of an auditorium (no flash) of an orchestra on stage during performance on a lighted stage and dark hall?

I've been letting the camera (P Mode) set the aperture/shutter speed and I've been bracketing down with no success. My pictures are not clear (I have a tripod), noise and grain and the subjects are blurry.

I hear everyone I've asked say - "manually set it". I have a light meter that the manual says I need to set the shutter speed in order to get the aperture reading - so how do I as the photographer determine this?

My initial thought is that the exposure is wrong because the camera is setting the aperture/shutter speed based on all the light in the auditorium, not just the stage. So, is the solution to go onto the stage before the performance, take a P-Mode picture, get "that" reading and then go back into the hall and set those setting's on the camera (which I don't know how to do yet).

I know it seems like I haven't done any reading, but it's not true. It's so foreign to me that I confuse myself.

PLEASE HELP? I have pictures on request. I just joined this site so please email me directly. The Ritz Camera salesman says he charges $75 to help me but it'll take about 3-5 lessons. I just bought over $2000 of equipment and don't have anything but Ramon noodles to eat! :)

opus@tampabay.rr.com

[Manfr3d]

Hi!

First of all, it would help if you posted a picture here that shows your
problem. If you set your camera to Av or Tv Mode I'd try to use
center weighted metering and get the correct reading by putting
the stage in the middle of your viewfinder. If you take a picture
you should most of the time be fine. If your images are grainy its
probably because you've set the ISO too high. But high ISO values
are most of the time the only way to take pictures in low light
situations. Here a noise removing tool like Noiseware can do wonders.

Hope that helps.

[ESiggins]

Don't feel bad - You're starting out trying to shoot in a very difficult situation and it may not be something your equipment can handle. A couple of thoughts:

You're shooting from the back of the auditorium with a 55mm lens? The Orchestra must look very small in your shots. I think you'll have to get closer if you want anything good, but we'd have to see one of your photos to really know the situation.

The reason your subject is blurry is probably because your shutter speed is too slow to freeze the action. The shutter speed controls (a) how much light gets into the camera and (b) freezing action. For example, if you want to take a photo of someone speaking and gesturing without it being blurry, you need about 1/80 or 1/125. If you want a photo of a racecar you need 1/1000 or something. The higher the sutter speed, the more light you need for a good exposure, so it's very hard to take pictures of moving subjects in situations without a lot of light. Equipment that can do this often costs a lot of money. Don't worry about your tripod. If your shutter speed is fast enough to freeze the musicians, it will be fast enough that your hands shaking won't make a difference.

The good news is that you said your shots looked OVERexposed, not under, so there may be enough light to get what you want on stage. Your suggestion about taking a light reading from the stage is a good one. See what the camera says in auto mode, then switch to manual and dial in the same settings when you go back to your shooting position. Opus's suggestion about using center-weighted metering will help, too.

Usually, a light meter will take an average of the light in the frame, so if you have a dark room with a light subject in the middle, nothing will look good. You need to decide which part is the most important (in this case, the orchestra), find out what the correct settings are for that thing, and forget anything else in the frame. Remember, though, that to freeze the motion of the musicians as they play, you'll need at leas 1/80 or so for a shutter speed, so you might want to put the camera in shutter priority mode to lock in that setting.

Hope that didn't confuse you further. Good luck,

Fred.

[Sandy]

Great advise ESiggins. I have found that the Canon 70-200 2.8 lense works best from the back of a dark auditorium at the speeds you mentioned. I usually rent the lenses due to the cost. My 17-55 will produce nice images, but too they are too small to appreciate.

LA Philharmonic taken from the central seating at the Hollywood Bowl with the 17-55.

http://sandra.smugmug.com/photos/107445698-L.jpg

[davidmigl]

As others have said, don't worry; this situation is really difficult to shoot when you're just starting out but you WILL get the hang of it.

One question - I found no EXIF info attached, so could you give the settings for the shot? Most importantly the shooting mode, ISO, shutter speed, and aperture.

Using a cable release might help as well.

EDIT: whoops thought the image was the op's. Still, op, an example image of what you are getting and the settings would be nice :D

[opus]

You guys are great! Thanks. My photographer friend told me to get the 17-55 lense for it's clarity and "audience-view". I was using the 18-55 kit lense and it worked fine but the clarity was awful. I'm looking for a CRYSTAL CLEAR image. And one properly exposed. My first thing I guess I need to figure out is do I need to return this lense for another? Is my lense or camera defective or is it "me and my inexperience". I will try all your advice. Here is what I have as far as the pic. 18-55 lense; 800 ISO; 1/20th of a second shutter and 5.6 aperture. When you zoom in this picture, all the noise on the white is horrible. I'll be doing this venue again next week so I will have my new lense there with me.

All your help and advice I really appreciate. The metering is standard metering in this photo.

[DoctorIt]

Hi Opus - I can appreciate your challenge, but you've misunderstood the title of this forum. By photo challenges, it means our bi-weekly photo contests. :lol3

I'm moving your thread to the appropriate forum where you will probably get more advice on your technique. Good luck :thumb

[ESiggins]

You guys are great! Thanks. My photographer friend told me to get the 17-55 lense for it's clarity and "audience-view". I was using the 18-55 kit lense and it worked fine but the clarity was awful. I'm looking for a CRYSTAL CLEAR image. And one properly exposed. My first thing I guess I need to figure out is do I need to return this lense for another? Is my lense or camera defective or is it "me and my inexperience". I will try all your advice. Here is what I have as far as the pic. 18-55 lense; 800 ISO; 1/20th of a second shutter and 5.6 aperture. When you zoom in this picture, all the noise on the white is horrible. I'll be doing this venue again next week so I will have my new lense there with me.

All your help and advice I really appreciate. The metering is standard metering in this photo.

Honesty, this is a nice shot - don't be too harsh on yourself. Posting your settings is very helpful, though, and I have some suggestions. First of all, you don't need to sell your lens, it's a good lens. You just need to buy more lenses (just kidding). Serriously, no lens can do everything and the type of lens that's ideal for this situation are generally very expensive (the cheap ones are not worth it). He lens you have will be good for whole range of other common situations.

Anyway, next time try this: Set your F-stop as low as it will go (5.6 or lower if you can). Then put your shutter speed at 1/60. You should probably leave the ISO at 800 and just deal with the noise, or fix it in photoshop with an add-on line Neatimage or Noise Ninja. Basically, your photo will overall be much darker, but that's good. You don't care about al the stuff around the stage, what you want are the singers. You should get a nice effect of a dark room with well exposed performers in the middle. Like I said before, you might also want to ditch the tripod and walk down one of the aisles to get closer, at 1/60 it's okay to hand hold your camera. You can also just play around with different shutter speeds and ISOs to see what works, but keep your aperure low. It's digital, so who cares how many shots you take as long as one is good? Good luck, and show us the results.

Fred.