help me spec out a new computer system

[Andy]

hey guys. i know we had a long conversation a while back about horsepower etc.

well, i need a new computer. the 1Ds Mark II files are huuuuuuuuuge and so my current sony desktop system will go to my wife and i will get a new setup.

help me spec out a new system? i was intrigued by alienware (http://www.alienware.com)

i want fast processor, believe that 1gb ram is enough, need raid storage, and what else?


here's an alienware system, to which i'd add the apple 30" cinema display and nvidia graphics board to drive it.

1] Area-51® 5550
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Toll-Free 24/7 Phone Support with Onsite Service
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2
AlienRespawn: Alienware® Respawn Recovery Kit
Chassis: Alienware® Full-Tower Case (480-Watt PS) - Space Black
Power Supply: Alienware® 480 Watt Power Supply
Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 560 w/ HT Technology 3.6GHz 1MB Cache
Motherboard: Alienware® PCI Express Motherboard with Intel® 925XE Chipset 1066/800MHz FSB
Memory: 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz - 2 x 512MB
Video Cooling: AlienIce™ Video Cooling System - Terra Green
System Drive: High Performance with Data Security - Serial ATA RAID 1 - 250GB (250 x 2) Western Digital® Caviar® SE 7,200 RPM w/16MB Cache
Optical Drive One: NEC® ND-3500 16x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Recorder
Floppy Drive: 3.5" 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive - Black
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster® Audigy® 2 ZS High Definition 7.1 Surround Firewire (IEEE® 1394) - $15 Mail-in Rebate !
Network Connection: Integrated High Performance Gigabit Ethernet
Automated Support: AlienAutopsy: Automated Technical Support Request System
Keyboard: Microsoft® Multimedia Keyboard - Space Black
Free Alienware T-Shirt: Free Alienware® T-Shirt - Black
Free Alienware Mousepad: Free Alienware® Mousepad
Desktop Enhancements: Exclusive AlienGUIse Theme Manager
AlienInspection: AlienInspection - Exclusive Integration and Inspection - $99.99 Value - FREE!
AlienWiring: AlienWiring - Exclusive Internal Wire Management - $99.99 Value - FREE!

and yes, sid (wxwax) gets the prize money for calling this, too :deal :lol3

[fish]

well, i need a new computer blah blah blah... http://www.apple.com/powermac/performance/

http://images.apple.com/powermac/performance/images/photoshop20041013.jpg

http://images.apple.com/powermac/images/indextop06082004.jpg


:deal :1drink

[David_S85]

Andy,


>>
here's an alienware system, to which i'd add the apple 30" cinema display and nvidia graphics board to drive it.
<<
Great monitor! However, from what I've read, and unless something has changed in the last couple months, the Apple Cinema display series will not be very adjustable from Windows (brightness only). Full control is from Apple OS only [Source: PCWorld, Nov. 2004, page 168]. I'm looking into the 23 or 24" wide screens, but one of my requirements is that they also have a separate input(s) for outside video sources, such as a DVD player, so I don't need the computer on to view something. Those are difficult to find, though, but would be fully integratable with Windows machines, and the 1900 x 1200 size seems ideal for editing with tools placed far off to one side.


>>
Free Alienware T-Shirt: Free Alienware® T-Shirt - Black
Free Alienware Mousepad: Free Alienware® Mousepad
<<
well, these are must-have items if you want to remain "hip" with the rest of the world.

- David

[pathfinder]

hey guys. i know we had a long conversation a while back about horsepower etc.

well, i need a new computer. the 1Ds Mark II files are huuuuuuuuuge and so my current sony desktop system will go to my wife and i will get a new setup.

help me spec out a new system? i was intrigued by alienware (http://www.alienware.com)

i want fast processor, believe that 1gb ram is enough, need raid storage, and what else?


here's an alienware system, to which i'd add the apple 30" cinema display and nvidia graphics board to drive it.

1] Area-51® 5550
Warranty: 1-Year AlienCare Toll-Free 24/7 Phone Support with Onsite Service
Operating System: Microsoft® Windows® XP Home Edition with Service Pack 2
AlienRespawn: Alienware® Respawn Recovery Kit
Chassis: Alienware® Full-Tower Case (480-Watt PS) - Space Black
Power Supply: Alienware® 480 Watt Power Supply
Processor: Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 560 w/ HT Technology 3.6GHz 1MB Cache
Motherboard: Alienware® PCI Express Motherboard with Intel® 925XE Chipset 1066/800MHz FSB
Memory: 1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz - 2 x 512MB
Video Cooling: AlienIce™ Video Cooling System - Terra Green
System Drive: High Performance with Data Security - Serial ATA RAID 1 - 250GB (250 x 2) Western Digital® Caviar® SE 7,200 RPM w/16MB Cache
Optical Drive One: NEC® ND-3500 16x Dual Layer DVD±R/W Recorder
Floppy Drive: 3.5" 1.44 MB Floppy Disk Drive - Black
Sound Card: Creative Sound Blaster® Audigy® 2 ZS High Definition 7.1 Surround Firewire (IEEE® 1394) - $15 Mail-in Rebate !
Network Connection: Integrated High Performance Gigabit Ethernet
Automated Support: AlienAutopsy: Automated Technical Support Request System
Keyboard: Microsoft® Multimedia Keyboard - Space Black
Free Alienware T-Shirt: Free Alienware® T-Shirt - Black
Free Alienware Mousepad: Free Alienware® Mousepad
Desktop Enhancements: Exclusive AlienGUIse Theme Manager
AlienInspection: AlienInspection - Exclusive Integration and Inspection - $99.99 Value - FREE!
AlienWiring: AlienWiring - Exclusive Internal Wire Management - $99.99 Value - FREE!

and yes, sid (wxwax) gets the prize money for calling this, too :deal :lol3


This is soooooo funny - And Yes, Sid called it!!!
http://images.apple.com/powermac/performance/images/photoshop20041013.jpg
The MAC really shines when filtering 16 bit images :lust
Do you really need the 30 inch Cinema display? I looked longingly at it, but the $600 fee for the display adapter plus $3200 was just little rich for me, so I opted for the 23 inch display and used the savings to help pay for a Dual G5 Power Mac with 4 ( that's four) Gigabytes of RAM. And Yes, you will find that 1 Gb or RAM is inadequate with the 1DsMkii files.(THAT'S MY STORY AND I'M STICKING TO IT!!)

One of the reasons I opted for the 23 in Cinema display was that if it was not large enough I could add a 17 in LCD I already own for my palettes in PS. Or I could add add a second 23 in Cinema display. :thumb

Come on over Andy, the waters just fine!!

[Sam]

[QUOTE=andy]hey guys. i know we had a long conversation a while back about horsepower etc.

well, i need a new computer. the 1Ds Mark II files are huuuuuuuuuge and so my current sony desktop system will go to my wife and i will get a new setup.

help me spec out a new system? i was intrigued by alienware (http://www.alienware.com/)

i want fast processor, believe that 1gb ram is enough, need raid storage, and what else?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Andy,

I make absolutly no claims to any computer knowledge what so ever! Lack of knowledge has never stoped me from giving out advice though. :D

I recently read an interesting article about computers for image processing. (I think it's on the Adobe web site) quite an eye opener. Two things that stuck in my brain were dual processers, and 1GB of RAM may not be enough with those huge files you will have. I believe they said PhotoShop likes 2 MB of Ram and 4 would not be too much.

I encourage you to look on the Adobe site for this. If you can find this it will be worth the effort.

I am going to take a quick look. If I find it I will come back and provide a link.

Sam

[Andy]

:welcome to dgrin, david! thanks for joining, and thanks for your advice here. i'll be digesting and will get back to ya (urp....) :lol3

davidp (you remember him) says otherwise, btw, regarding the adjusting bit take a look here (http://www.dphoto.us/forum/showthread.php?t=3024)

Andy,


>>
here's an alienware system, to which i'd add the apple 30" cinema display and nvidia graphics board to drive it.
<<
Great monitor! However, from what I've read, and unless something has changed in the last couple months, the Apple Cinema display series will not be very adjustable from Windows (brightness only). Full control is from Apple OS only [Source: PCWorld, Nov. 2004, page 168]. I'm looking into the 23 or 24" wide screens, but one of my requirements is that they also have a separate input(s) for outside video sources, such as a DVD player, so I don't need the computer on to view something. Those are difficult to find, though, but would be fully integratable with Windows machines, and the 1900 x 1200 size seems ideal for editing with tools placed far off to one side.


>>
Free Alienware T-Shirt: Free Alienware® T-Shirt - Black
Free Alienware Mousepad: Free Alienware® Mousepad
<<
well, these are must-have items if you want to remain "hip" with the rest of the world.

- David

[dkapp]

I don't know the first thing about a windows computer. I've not looked at them in over 3 years.

I'd say go w/ the Mac :D

If you need help w/ a system from Apple, I'm sure there will be more than enough people here willing to help you spend your money!

Dave

[Pyogenes]

Andy,

As an owner of an Alienware laptop, I wholeheartedly believe you should steer away from Alienware as fast as your ISP will take you.

Their customer support is horrible (had major ordering issues). Their technical support was even worse (had a fried video card after a couple months). I could go on for hours with how bad my overall experience with them is. Let's just say when I asked to speak with a manager, they HUNG UP ON ME!!

Joe

[Andy]

Come on over Andy, the waters just fine!!

:yikes $8123

will it at least kiss me in the morning? :wxwax

Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz
Part Number: Z0AC
56k V.92 modem
Accessory kit
8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
4GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 8x512
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL w/256MB GDDR3 SDRAM
2x250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) Part Number: M9179LL/A

[Andy]

Andy,

As an owner of an Alienware laptop, I wholeheartedly believe you should steer away from Alienware as fast as your ISP will take you.

Their customer support is horrible (had major ordering issues). Their technical support was even worse (had a fried video card after a couple months). I could go on for hours with how bad my overall experience with them is. Let's just say when I asked to speak with a manager, they HUNG UP ON ME!!

Joe

hey joe! :wave welcome to dgrin, and thanks so much for joining! and, for your firsthand experience with alienware. i value your opinion, so alienware is gooooooooooone from my vocabulary.

the left coast crowd is pushing me towards a mac anyhow :lol3

[DJ-S1]

As an owner of an Alienware laptop, I wholeheartedly believe you should steer away from Alienware as fast as your ISP will take you.I have to agree with that, a friend of mine has an Alienware laptop and it isn't all that fast compared to what it cost. Definitely more hype than substance in my opinion.

And don't let those fanatics on the dark side brainwash you! :nono :lol3

[dkapp]

:yikes $8123

will it at least kiss me in the morning? :wxwax

Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz
Part Number: Z0AC
56k V.92 modem
Accessory kit
8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
4GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 8x512
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL w/256MB GDDR3 SDRAM
2x250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) Part Number: M9179LL/A

This is what i like to see! Your making a step in the right direction :D

The 30" is a beautiful display, but I would have to recommend the 23". I think the 30" could be a little too big to view on a desk.

Dave

[Andy]

i use a pc at work. i have a pc laptop. will i be able to easily make the switch between systems during my daily routines?

[Andy]

This is what i like to see! Your making a step in the right direction :D

The 30" is a beautiful display, but I would have to recommend the 23". I think the 30" could be a little too big to view on a desk.

Dave

yeah, but ... it's 30 freakin' inches! and you know what they say, size does matter!

seriously... the 30 incher would show a 1Ds Mark II file at nearly 50% across the screen, so i gather ....

[dkapp]

i use a pc at work. i have a pc laptop. will i be able to easily make the switch between systems during my daily routines?

I do it every day with work & home. I don't have a problem. What special applications do you run on Windows that you *have* to have on the apple side? This could be the deciding factor.

Dave

[Sam]

:yikes $8123

will it at least kiss me in the morning? :wxwax

Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz
Part Number: Z0AC
56k V.92 modem
Accessory kit
8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
4GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 8x512
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL w/256MB GDDR3 SDRAM
2x250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) Part Number: M9179LL/A
Look, if your gona go for all that, don't forget the Wacom graphics pen / pad monitor. I don't remember the model number but you draw right on the flat monitor. Way cool!!!!

The price has come down to a very afordable $2500. Used to be over $3500. I'm gona wait one or ten years, but you go right ahead.

Seriously, they have quite a few different models. (I have a real small one, but significantly better then a mouse) I think they have a new 6X8 model that is only $200. Well worth it.

Sam

[dkapp]

yeah, but ... it's 30 freakin' inches! and you know what they say, size does matter!

seriously... the 30 incher would show a 1Ds Mark II file at nearly 50% across the screen, so i gather ....

Upload a few full size files to the web and make a trip to your local apple store. They have internet access at all apple stores. Jump on the 23" & 30" displays to see what looks best to you. The have PS & all the major programs loaded. Just delete the picture when your done :D

This is how I decided a 23" was more comfortable to view.

Dave

[Andy]

Look, if your gona go for all that, don't forget the Wacom graphics pen / pad monitor. I don't remember the model number but you draw right on the flat monitor. Way cool!!!!

The price has come down to a very afordable $2500. Used to be over $3500. I'm gona wait one or ten years, but you go right ahead.

Seriously, they have quite a few different models. (I have a real small one, but significantly better then a mouse) I think they have a new 6X8 model that is only $200. Well worth it.

Sam

it's really nice how you guys are so wonderful about lightening my wallet :lol3

[Andy]

Upload a few full size files to the web and make a trip to your local apple store. They have internet access at all apple stores. Jump on the 23" & 30" displays to see what looks best to you. The have PS & all the major programs loaded. Just delete the picture when your done :D

This is how I decided a 23" was more comfortable to view.

Dave

there's a killer apple store in soho - i'll be there this week. yabba dabba doo!

[dkapp]

there's a killer apple store in soho - i'll be there this week. yabba dabba doo!

Don't forget to check out the 12", 15" & 17" PowerBooks while your there :)

Dave

[Pyogenes]

hey joe! :wave welcome to dgrin, and thanks so much for joining! and, for your firsthand experience with alienware. i value your opinion, so alienware is gooooooooooone from my vocabulary.

the left coast crowd is pushing me towards a mac anyhow :lol3
Thanks for the warm welcome. Glad I was able to save you from a huge headache :thumb

As far as Mac vs PC - the only reason I own several PC's is my gaming addiction (only bought the Alienware laptop to game while travelling for work. hehe) I started out on a Mac long ago and still miss it once in a while.

I'm out in the west coast for another few days so I guess I'll have to push you towards a Mac also. :rofl

[Andy]

I do it every day with work & home. I don't have a problem. What special applications do you run on Windows that you *have* to have on the apple side? This could be the deciding factor.

Dave

none, really. but would i need to buy new licenses of word, & excel? that would suck eggz.... :wxwax

[Pyogenes]

i use a pc at work. i have a pc laptop. will i be able to easily make the switch between systems during my daily routines?
I used to have a Mac and PC set up on the same desk and switched between the two constantly. Plus the Mac was booted into MkLinux half the time to fry my brain even more. Kinda confusing for a little while but I got used to it in a week or so.

[DJ-S1]

From the Adobe page here: (http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/318243.html) (for Windows boxes, just in case you don't go Apple)

...Photoshop can access 2 GB of installed physical RAM...That's a hard limit, so any more than that could be a waste right now.



Speed is limited by the speed of the computer's processor, or CPU (Central Processing Unit). Since Photoshop manipulates large quantities of data and performs many calculations, its speed is greatly dependent on the processor's speed. Photoshop requires a Pentium III or 4 processor. Photoshop CS has not been tested with the Intel Itanium chip, and does not take advantage of its 64-bit processing.

All Photoshop features are faster on a multiprocessor system, although some can take greater advantage of the multiprocessor system's capabilities.So definitely get a multi-processor machine.



To work with an image, Photoshop requires at least three to five times the file size of the image in available memory (RAM). If Photoshop has insufficient memory, it uses hard-disk space (scratch disk) to process information. Because accessing information in memory is faster than accessing information on a hard disk, Photoshop is fastest when it can process all or most image information in memory (RAM), without using the scratch disk. Allocate enough memory to Photoshop to accommodate your largest image file.



To check use of memory for Photoshop, open the Efficiency Indicator:



1. Click the triangle in the bottom border of the application window. 2. Choose Efficiency to display the percentage of time actually doing an operation instead of reading or writing the scratch disk. If the value is less than 100%, Photoshop is using the scratch disk and, therefore, is operating more slowly.Gotta try that Efficiency Indicator, that's the first I have heard of it...

[fish]

I have to agree with that, a friend of mine has an Alienware laptop and it isn't all that fast compared to what it cost. Definitely more hype than substance in my opinion.

And don't let those fanatics on the dark side brainwash you! :nono :lol3

Yahbutt...the Tshirt is FREE! :lol3

http://image.alienware.com/images/sub_page_images/t_shirt_white.gif

[dkapp]

none, really. but would i need to buy new licenses of word, & excel? that would suck eggz.... :wxwax

Yes you do, along w/ PS & other programs. If you switch to Mac, some software providers will actually ship you a copy of the mac version if you send them your Windows copy. I think Pathfinder did this.

There is the Macworld San Francisco conference Jan 10-14. Apple likes to announce new and updated products at this time. For the latest speed bump, you may want to hold out if you can.

Dave

[fish]

none, really. but would i need to buy new licenses of word, & excel? that would suck eggz.... :wxwax
Or download OpenOffice for FREE.

[Pyogenes]

none, really. but would i need to buy new licenses of word, & excel? that would suck eggz.... :wxwax
You can go uber-geek and use the open source version of StarOffice for the Mac.
http://www.openoffice.org/product/
http://porting.openoffice.org/mac/

Best part is the cost: free!

[Pyogenes]

Yahbutt...the Tshirt is FREE! :lol3

http://image.alienware.com/images/sub_page_images/t_shirt_white.gif
It better be. Mine shrank after one wash in COLD water.

[fish]

It better be. Mine shrank after one wash in COLD water.

Perhaps it didn't go through the FREE inspection? :rofl



AlienInspection - Exclusive Integration and Inspection - $99.99 Value - FREE!

[pathfinder]

:yikes $8123

will it at least kiss me in the morning? :wxwax

Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz
Part Number: Z0AC
56k V.92 modem
Accessory kit
8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
4GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 8x512
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL w/256MB GDDR3 SDRAM
2x250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) Part Number: M9179LL/A


About the same as your 1DsMkll - right? But you are including the 32 in Cinemas display and the $600 video card needed for the 32 in display. Consider the 23 in and save about $2K. It is almost the size of a 13x19 in print.

Skip the 2nd 250 Gb hard drive - instead spring for a LaCie 500Gb external 800 Firewire BU drive. You're gonna need it for the files from the 1DsMkii.

I have over 150 Gb of images and RAW files from my little cameras. I am sure you will have a LOT more than this.

As for Photoshop - if you call Adobe support they will swap you a copy of PS for MAC if you send in your Wintel copy. And you can then skip the Adobe activation junk - I had Photoshop quit running several times in windows because of that - losing the editing I had done.

[wxwax]

and yes, sid (wxwax) gets the prize money for calling this, too :deal :lol3

:D

[Andy]

you apple-ettes have not kept up enough pressure :deal

i'm re-considering staying with a wintel box.....

[pathfinder]

you apple-ettes have not kept up enough pressure :deal

i'm re-considering staying with a wintel box.....

It all really boils down to whether you would rather spend your time fixing your computer and keeping it up to date and virus free, or just using your computer to work on your images and for the Web. As for me, after Service pack11 and further updates and security holes, I decided I would no longer be an unpaid Microsoft repairman. And I have not looked back. YMMV.
:dunno

The web is much faster and more responsive on my MAC than on my Gateway Machine and they both share the same DSL line and both are running Firefox. I can listen for hours to internet radio without any glitches. And I can listen to Internet radio, RIP a CD, download an update to firmware for my 20D, and copy files from one hard drive to another all at the same time while I edit in Photoshopo. Try doing all that at the same time in XP and let me know how it works out. :thumb

[gus]

Andy..do what i do....

Buy a $400 box (use your old mouse ..monitor etc) & when it gets tired or out dated in 18 months...buy another.

You keep up with the speed & it keeps cost at a min.

[gubbs]

So what are the hidden costs here andy? Another blue box maybe?? :D

[yvonne]

you apple-ettes have not kept up enough pressure :deal

i'm re-considering staying with a wintel box.....I've just been exactly where you are. Needed to upgrade my portable (though not quite to the same spec as you) and had the whole mac vs pc dilemma. MAC pressure was intense, a.) because it looks great, and b.) because my best friend's husband kind of wrote their new MAC OS so they had a few opinions to drop into the debate too :wink , but in the end I got myself a beautiful Vaio.

The main decision behind it was the repurchase of software issue, and having to relearn a totally new set of shortcode commands. It just seemed too much of an investment of both time and money for the sake of "security" which has never been a major issue for me in the first place. It took 6 months of soulsearching before I made a decisison though!! (and I still drool when I see that lovely shiney white plastic on someone else's desk)...

[Andy]

It all really boils down to whether you would rather spend your time fixing your computer and keeping it up to date and virus free, or just using your computer to work on your images and for the Web. As for me, after Service pack11 and further updates and security holes, I decided I would no longer be an unpaid Microsoft repairman. And I have not looked back. YMMV.
:dunno

The web is much faster and more responsive on my MAC than on my Gateway Machine and they both share the same DSL line and both are running Firefox. I can listen for hours to internet radio without any glitches. And I can listen to Internet radio, RIP a CD, download an update to firmware for my 20D, and copy files from one hard drive to another all at the same time while I edit in Photoshopo. Try doing all that at the same time in XP and let me know how it works out. :thumb

sorry but this pc user disagrees. i've been on sp2 since it was first avial, and that has made this argument for macs imo less potent. properly configured and buttoned up (firewall, antivirus, sp2, etc....) a pc is plenty safe.

as to internet speed? i'm screaming fast and i too, listen to internet radio without a glitch, or watch a video, etc...

so that's not a reason for me any more :D

thanks for reply though!

[rutt]

I considered the 30 inch display pretty seriously, but ended up with 2 23inch displays instead. You do get more screen real estate for the money this way.

Whatever you do, save a few dollars and get a better product by buying a reconditioned monitor from apple online. (There is a box for reconditioned stuff on the store site.) Reconditioned is better because there won't be any dead pixels. If you get a new one with a dead pixel, and return it, they fix it and sell as reconditioned. It can save a few hundred dollars on the 23inch monitor.

Once you buy your new computer, you'll need something for your wife, right? There's a birthday coming up, right? That's where I can really help you. Don't buy retaill! You money goes less than 1/2 as far at Tiffany as at a high end auction. Check out Sotheby's and Christies web sites for upcomming auctions of appropriate stuff. Don't be afraid that you'll be out of your price range here. You'll find stuff.

[patch29]

there's a killer apple store in soho - i'll be there this week. yabba dabba doo!

Have you seen the 30" in person? It is super sweet, but huge. I like the idea of dual displays. I would like to get a 23" LCD (well maybe the 30" if I could afford it :deal) and a 22" lacie. I think that offers the best of both worlds, good color and lots of space.


the left coast crowd is pushing me towards a mac anyhow :lol3

you apple-ettes have not kept up enough pressure :deal

i'm re-considering staying with a wintel box.....

How about the down south crowd. I love my mac, no desire for a PC and I would love a DP 2.5 G5, but it will have to wait. OS X is going to actually use the 64 bit processing with Tiger and if the next PS release uses it too you could see a bump in speed with only software updates. I wish they would tell us if it is going to make a big difference or not. I would think it could.

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

I will say if you bought a G5 I think you would be very happy with it, but in reality if you are happy with PC's you will still end up getting the same results, but you only live once and you have the coolest new camera, doesn't it deserve the coolest new computer and biggest monitor?

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!


:dealhttp://patch29.smugmug.com/photos/10285843-Ti.gif

[rutt]

'Gus has a good point. For PCs, we buy noname from the local Chinese computer store. Can't beat the service and price/performance.

Macs really are nice (I use 3 different ones) but they really are expensive for what you get vs pcs. You'll pay so much for a fancy Mac that you'll be stuck with it for much longer than a brand X pc. Meanwhile, the PC's are going to get faster at a pretty good clip. We just bought two 3.2GHz pcs each with 2GB of memory and 500GB in two disks. $1400/each.!
The Mac port of Photoshop is nicer than the PC version, IMHO. I've used both and you can tell which is the port and which is the mainline version.

But if you need to waste time on cool games, you need a PC.

Oh and don't forget to factor the choice of smugmug explorer vs smugmug.py into your choice! (I say smugmug.py is worth the learning curve and just wait until the next version hits the streets, but Nilolai's fans are not really candidates for it.)

Don't listen to the fanatics on either side. You have to make the right choice for yourself and your budget. (But remember not to buy jewelery retail!)

[robscomputer]

It's a tough call but I would first look at both a comparable PC and Mac then choose what features you want or need. By starting off with the dual proc G5 then comparing this to a Gateway $500 pc is a bit one sided. I would spec out a medium to high end pc, for example around the same price as the dual proc G5 THEN compare which is faster.

Also remember if we like it or not we live in a Windows world, Apple OS runs on about 5% of the desktop world if not less. Before you make the switch confirm that all of your software is available in Mac format and that the software you currently own is transferable (Adobe is great with their OS switching program). Some of my Canon software for my G3 is only available in PC format, while it’s not a huge loss still something to consider.



Just from my personal experience, I've been using primary PC's and various Mac's for about 20 years. The Mac OS has grown incredibly from the previous 9.x versions. It’s very easy to use and being built on BSD Unix makes it very solid. In fact many Mac users rarely reboot, something to get used to in the Windows world. Before with 9.x was a pain to get files copied from a Windows box but they resolved this problem. Also with Apple I think the biggest pro for them is how the OS is built directly for the hardware that it is running. Windows XP has to be tested with 1,000’s of different configurations and even then there are some that might not work.



Using PC’s I have a great experience with very few problems. Some OS’s weren’t too great, Windows 95 and 98 for example but after Windows 2000 I think the PC is very stable. The majority of problems I read about with the PC are typically from the users not following instructions or not keeping their PC up to date with patches. In the past year I had about 2 blue screens, once on my work PC and one on my notebook. It’s not perfect but I think that amount of time I’m on a computer that’s a pretty low down time percentage.



I almost bought a Powerbook this summer but bought an IBM for compatibility issues with applications and overall cost. After seriously considering the Mac I found that using it at school where the majority of computers are PC’s would cause some compatibility issues. Especially when taking computer science classes and I need to be using the same tools that are on the lab pc’s. I could have bought Virtual PC but this would have been an greater expense to an already expensive notebook.



Also keep in mind that no PC or Mac is perfect, while the PC might have more issues with the OS, it appears that Apple has more problems with hardware especially the Powerbook series. If you purchase the additional warrentry you should be ok with either PC’s or Mac’s.



After so many years of using PC’s as my main computer I think my next desktop will be a G5 iMac. I just like the idea of having a powerful command line combined with a easy to use desktop. Also I’m wondering just how much faster they really are. I’ll also admit the lure of the Apples are getting to me. :D



In the end test out both computers and see which one you like better. Apple’s are indeed nice but it’s a diverse OS with different strengths and weaknesses. PC’s a standard but have problems such as viruses and compatibility issues.



Cnet’s PC to Mac migration page

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10163_7-5589357-1.html?tag=cnetfd.dl (http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10163_7-5589357-1.html?tag=cnetfd.dl)



Apple’s OS switching page

http://www.apple.com/switch/ (http://www.apple.com/switch/)



Intel’s Photography page

http://www.intel.com/personal/do_more/photography/index.htm?iid=ipc+LHN_entertainment_photography& (http://www.intel.com/personal/do_more/photography/index.htm?iid=ipc+LHN_entertainment_photography&)





Good luck!



Rob

[pathfinder]

Have you seen the 30" in person? It is super sweet, but huge. I like the idea of dual displays. I would like to get a 23" LCD (well maybe the 30" if I could afford it :deal) and a 22" lacie. I think that offers the best of both worlds, good color and lots of space.





How about the down south crowd. I love my mac, no desire for a PC and I would love a DP 2.5 G5, but it will have to wait. OS X is going to actually use the 64 bit processing with Tiger and if the next PS release uses it too you could see a bump in speed with only software updates. I wish they would tell us if it is going to make a big difference or not. I would think it could.

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

I will say if you bought a G5 I think you would be very happy with it, but in reality if you are happy with PC's you will still end up getting the same results, but you only live once and you have the coolest new camera, doesn't it deserve the coolest new computer and biggest monitor?

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!

Get a MAC! Get a MAC! Get a MAC!


:dealhttp://patch29.smugmug.com/photos/10285843-Ti.gif


Hey Patch,, Ya think Andy ought to get a MAC too?? :roll :roll :roll

[fish]

Hey Patch,, Ya think Andy ought to get a MAC too?? :roll :roll :roll

Andy might not be smart enough for a mac. Whaddaya think? :dunno





:rofl:rofl

[rutt]

Andy might not be smart enough for a mac. Whaddaya think? :dunno





:rofl:rofl
We'll see if he is smart enough to avoid Tiffany's this time. Seems like a necessary condition for being smart enough to escape windows.

[This is fun, isn't it?]

[patch29]

Andy might not be smart enough for a mac. Whaddaya think? :dunno





:rofl:rofl

Maybe he went to SOHO today and is busy hooking up his new G5 as we speak. :deal :evil :wxwax

He does shoot with a Canon, so he is half way there. Join the Rebel Alliance and leave the Darkside, Andy. Get a Mac.

[pathfinder]

Andy might not be smart enough for a mac. Whaddaya think? :dunno





:rofl:rofl


Now now - lets all try to be nice Ok???? Guys???? :thumb

[patch29]

Hey Patch,, Ya think Andy ought to get a MAC too?? :roll :roll :roll

I can see Andy taking the bow off that G5 box right now, ooooh and the 30", better start lifting weights to get the bow off of that big boy. :evil

[Andy]

I can see Andy taking the bow off that G5 box right now, ooooh and the 30", better start lifting weights to get the bow off of that big boy. :evil

i never made it down to the apple store today, had some things come up. i am spending all day thursday in soho, and the lower east side, shopping and shooting, so i will definitely make it into the apple store. big apple store there in soho.

and: i yam 2 smert enug to utlimize a apple - mah momma teached me good, et a appladay keep that doctor not here

[patch29]

i never made it down to the apple store today, had some things come up. i am spending all day thursday in soho, and the lower east side, shopping and shooting, so i will definitely make it into the apple store. big apple store there in soho.

That is a cool store, two floors, unlike my local Apple store. I will usually go to the Apple store for free wi-fi when I am out of town, a nice little free bonus of visiting Apple.

[fish]

and: i yam 2 smert enug to utlimize a apple - mah momma teached me good, et a appladay keep that doctor not here

I'm sooo relieved to hear that. Don't forget to check prices on the net.

[fish]

But if you need to waste time on cool games, you need a PC.
I dunno about that. I seem to have no problem wasting time on Halo and Splinter Cell.

[rutt]

I dunno about that. I seem to have no problem wasting time on Halo and Splinter Cell.
Oh, too bad. I sort of had that check in the plus column for apple. I seem to be immune. Not so my teenage boys.

[gregneil]

Personally, I'd stay away from Apple reconditioned computer and monitors sold through their website. You're better off buying new direct from an Apple Store. If you're concerned about dead pixels, no LCD manufacturer that I know of guarantees no dead pixels. Apple doesn't publish a certain "number" of dead pixels to make a monitor defective, but take it on a case by case basis. If you buy it from an Apple Retail store you have a much better chance of exchanging if you're not satisfied with the monitor. Apple's dead pixel policy is much more lenient than most manufacturers.

That being said, the majority of Apple LCDs don't have any dead pixels. And they're stunning to look at.

I'm getting whatever the next top-of-the line G5 tower is with a 23" monitor right when it comes out.

You can save money by purchasing additional RAM from a third party like www.crucial.com and installing it yourself.

Good luck!

[Pyogenes]

I dunno about that. I seem to have no problem wasting time on Halo and Splinter Cell.
But you're forgetting that an Xbox is a neutered PC :thumb

[Pyogenes]

You can save money by purchasing additional RAM from a third party like www.crucial.com (http://www.crucial.com/) and installing it yourself.

I remember a few years ago I priced a computer on Dell to get some ballpark figures for a friend and noticed that going from 512 to 1 GB cost more than buying 2 GB from a 3rd party. That's an extreme case, but I'm sure y'all get my point.

The hard drive upgrades are just as overpriced usually.

[DavidTO]

Can't believe this thread's been going for two days, and this is the first I've seen of it.

Of course, I'm going to suggest you get a Mac.

As for cost, read this. (http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html)

I've helped several friends with the upgrade from Windows to Mac. They are all happy they did it.

Speed will only improve with the release of the next OS, Tiger, due out early '05. Well, first half, anyway. And the features are very impressive. With the next major Windows release years off, the Mac advantage will only widen.

Any and all help you need, let me know. Tech support for a Mac is very easy.

[DavidTO]

Personally, I'd stay away from Apple reconditioned computer and monitors sold through their website.

Why? Same warranty.

[DavidTO]

here's an alienware system, to which i'd add the apple 30" cinema display and nvidia graphics board to drive it.


Can you run a 30" on a PC? I know that the 23" and lower will, but looking at the tech specs page at Apple, I'm not sure the 30" is compatible with a PC.

http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.html

EDIT: well, maybe you can, but it looks to be a pain in the butt (http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?14@572.g8j3agdrFTE.1@.68a113c5)

[fish]

But you're forgetting that an Xbox is a neutered PC :thumb
Who said anything about xbox? I'm playing those on my MAC.

[fish]

I remember a few years ago I priced a computer on Dell to get some ballpark figures for a friend and noticed that going from 512 to 1 GB cost more than buying 2 GB from a 3rd party. That's an extreme case, but I'm sure y'all get my point.

The hard drive upgrades are just as overpriced usually.

Yep...very true. Buy stock and do the memory and drive upgrades yourself.

[fish]

Personally, I'd stay away from Apple reconditioned computer and monitors sold through their website.
I agree with you on the LCDs, as many have been returned for pixel issues that fall within Apple's vague guidelines. However, I would have no qualms about buying a reconditioned powermac tower.

[Andy]

Can you run a 30" on a PC? I know that the 23" and lower will, but looking at the tech specs page at Apple, I'm not sure the 30" is compatible with a PC.

in fact you can, a guy i'm talking with is doing it. you need an nvidia QuadroFX3000 but it works perfectly...

[Pyogenes]

Who said anything about xbox? I'm playing those on my MAC.
My bad... didn't realize Halo was released for the Mac.:doh

[DavidTO]

I agree with you on the LCDs, as many have been returned for pixel issues that fall within Apple's vague guidelines.

That makes sense.

[fish]

My bad... didn't realize Halo was released for the Mac.:doh
yep...macsoft.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/store-name=videogames&index=videogames&search-type=ss&field-manufacturer=MacSoft/002-3575716-5665605

[Pyogenes]

in fact you can, a guy i'm talking with is doing it. you need an nvidia QuadroFX3000 but it works perfectly...
That reminds me. Workstation class video cards (such as the Quadro series) usually have better image quality than the gamer based cards (geForce or Radeon). How the drivers are tweaked plays a small role (gamer cards often sacrifice image quality for speed, but that's mainly for 3D graphics), but the big difference comes from the higher quality parts and better shielding found in the workstation cards. Some gamer cards are built equally well, but not worth getting unless you're building your own PC from parts.

[fish]

My bad... didn't realize Halo was released for the Mac.:doh


Battle-damaged Master Chief reporting for duty! :grim


http://coyfish.smugmug.com/photos/13063063-L.jpg

[gtc]

I'm with humungous on this-i just bought an ibm clone pentium 4 - 3.2 gig intel chip and 1 gig of ram as well as a decent graphics card , 56k modem and burner for $AUD600-if the ram isn't enough I will upgrade when it gets a little cheaper-ram prices seems to fluctuate a lot.

whereas cameras and accessories etc are expensive in Oz pc's are quite cheap

With extra ram this will last me about three or four years if software continues its history of memory sapping growth.

the money you save on pc expenditure could be better spent on new lenses etc-
the canon 60mm macro with extender gets me hot and bothered...grain of rice filling a frame..ahh "macrobation"

but I also assume that you are not short of a buck,so i guess spend it whilst you have got it.

the other way to go is get your box upgraded at your local pc shop...

[fish]

I'm with humungous on this
I reckon it's all about the money/quality continuum.

If money is more important to you, buy disposable PCs every six months. If quality of experience and ease of use is more important, then buy a Mac. Easy.

[Andy]

I reckon it's all about the money/quality continuum.

If money is more important to you, buy disposable PCs every six months. If quality of experience and ease of use is more important, then buy a Mac. Easy.

aww now wait a minute there fish :D

i have had my sony desktop system for 24 months - and the only thing i did was bump the ram from 512 to 1.5gb. not one single problem ever with he system, crashes, virus, or other performance issues. this system doesn't owe em a penny, yet when i get my new system, my wife and kid will have it for until it goes casters up...

not all pcs need replacing every six months. that's just a plain myth.

not saying you're wrong about apple btw, either.

[pathfinder]

aww now wait a minute there fish :D

i have had my sony desktop system for 24 months - and the only thing i did was bump the ram from 512 to 1.5gb. not one single problem ever with he system, crashes, virus, or other performance issues. this system doesn't owe em a penny, yet when i get my new system, my wife and kid will have it for until it goes casters up...

not all pcs need replacing every six months. that's just a plain myth.

not saying you're wrong about apple btw, either.

Almost all the PC systems suggested have been single processor systems - And yes, single processor Windows boxes with modest amounts of RAM are significantly cheaper than a Dual Processor G5. Go to Dell and price a DUAL XEON Processor Tower comparable in features to a G5 - 800 speed Dual Fire Wire, 400 Fire Wire etc. I did that before I bought my MAC. The Mac WAS less than the DUAL Xeon.
THE ONLY REASON TO BUY A DUAL PROCESSOR box is if you have software that can recognize and use both processors - PHOTOSHOP can and does use both processors in a MAC - Not as Native PS - You must download the plug in for dual processors - but that is where the speed is on the MAC. And that is why I ended up in the Mac world, Andy. If you decide to stay in Windows, that is cool, but a single processor XP box will not run filters on large 16 bit files like a G5 Power Mac. That is not my opinion, that is the opinion of many people in the graphics industry.

Games WILL play faster on a PC - games are written in languages for the Intel chip not the G5 chip. Most of the MAC games are ported from the Intel/Windows world and do not run that fast on my MAC ( they don't use both processors perhaps?). The gamers all run hot pushed Windows boxes - but they are not concerned about security or viruses because many of them reformat their drive weekly - they are on a quest for speed and only speed.

I don't want to have to format my drive yearly let alone weekly.:dunno And you are right, I did not throw out my P4 XP box - I still use it for Microsofts Streets and Trips. What I do not use it for is PHOTOSHOP because it is so much slower. Depends on what you want to use your computer for ultimately. 'Nuff said.

[fish]

aww now wait a minute there fish :D

i have had my sony desktop system for 24 months - and the only thing i did was bump the ram from 512 to 1.5gb. not one single problem ever with he system, crashes, virus, or other performance issues.
So YOU'RE the one guy with that experience, huh? I've been wondering. :rofl


not all pcs need replacing every six months. that's just a plain myth.
Want vs. need.

not saying you're wrong about apple btw, either.
:1drink




So on your security scheme with your pc....it sounds very robust. firewalls, antivirus, spamstoppers, router, gateway, ethernet condoms, etc. But why bother? Wouldn't it be better not to have to deal with all that bs?

[Andy]

So on your security scheme with your pc....it sounds very robust. firewalls, antivirus, spamstoppers, router, gateway, ethernet condoms, etc. But why bother? Wouldn't it be better not to have to deal with all that bs?

heheeh good point, fish-mon!

[ian408]

So on your security scheme with your pc....it sounds very robust. firewalls, antivirus, spamstoppers, router, gateway, ethernet condoms, etc. But why bother? Wouldn't it be better not to have to deal with all that bs?
Hmmm...I would argue that "all that bs" is necessary whether you run Solaris,
Windows, OS/X, Linux or any other OS. Just ask Robert Morris :D

Ian

[cmr164]

Hmmm...I would argue that "all that bs" is necessary whether you run Solaris,
Windows, OS/X, Linux or any other OS. Just ask Robert Morris :D

Ian
There are 0 (ZERO) viruses for OSX. If you can trick a user into running a program the user can harm their personal area but OSX stays secure. The OS differentiates between user programs and root programs. There are zero viruses for solaris/tru64/bsd/unix in general. There are security issues that occur and get addressed but all of those OSes live in a very different and more secure environment than Windows. 80% of all Windows systems on the net are hacked at any given time. 0% of OSX/Solaris/Linux/BSD/Unix systems are hacked at any given time.

[lynnesite]

hey joe! :wave welcome to dgrin, and thanks so much for joining! and, for your firsthand experience with alienware. i value your opinion, so alienware is gooooooooooone from my vocabulary.

the left coast crowd is pushing me towards a mac anyhow :lol3

Mac, yes, left coast here too.

From the 18 year-geek standpoint I stopped supporting PCs in '98 for the usual reasons. Have had 50 Mac-only mostly-entertainment industry clients since, and for the last 18 months I've been like the Maytag repairman. When I say 50, that's 50 invoiced within the last year. OS X is rock-solid, has been easy to support via phone.

Color management, lack of malware and virus, OS patches infrequent, ease and elegance of use, built-in apps, the well-engineered, easy on the eyes hardware... Suuuweeeeeet! :clap

My iView Pro catalogs are 40,000 and 22,000 images respectively FWIW, running on only a G4 laptop @ 1 GHz & 1 GB RAM. My TIFF submittals to my stock agency are from 35 mb to 60 mb, handles it fine. You'll rock with a G5.

Lynne

[ian408]

There are 0 (ZERO) viruses for OSX. If you can trick a user into running a program the user can harm their personal area but OSX stays secure. The OS differentiates between user programs and root programs. There are zero viruses for solaris/tru64/bsd/unix in general. There are security issues that occur and get addressed but all of those OSes live in a very different and more secure environment than Windows. 80% of all Windows systems on the net are hacked at any given time. 0% of OSX/Solaris/Linux/BSD/Unix systems are hacked at any given time.
I won't disagree that windows is insecure. I will disagree with your assertion that
"0% of OSX/Solaris/Linux/BSD/Unix Systems are haced at any given time.". How do
you suppose "security issues" are discovered in these OS's?

Thanks for playing.

Ian

[cmr164]

I won't disagree that windows is insecure. I will disagree with your assertion that
"0% of OSX/Solaris/Linux/BSD/Unix Systems are haced at any given time.". How do
you suppose "security issues" are discovered in these OS's?

Thanks for playing.

Ian
Since I am deep into OS development and security, I am quite comfortable with my assertion. Most security issues are hypotheticals that are discovered by various white-hat hackers and that are patched without ever having resulted in an actual system hack. Some of the others are results from real issues resulting in systems being hacked but that count never rises high enough to round up from 0% to 1%.

[ian408]

Since I am deep into OS development and security, I am quite comfortable with my assertion. Most security issues are hypotheticals that are discovered by various white-hat hackers and that are patched without ever having resulted in an actual system hack. Some of the others are results from real issues resulting in systems being hacked but that count never rises high enough to round up from 0% to 1%.
I have picked up the pieces on several occassions and continue to see the
various attempts to do so. I stand by my assertion that you need to take
precautions originally described as "bs" by fish whether you are a windows
user or some other OS.

[rutt]

I have picked up the pieces on several occassions and continue to see the
various attempts to do so. I stand by my assertion that you need to take
precautions originally described as "bs" by fish whether you are a windows
user or some other OS.
OK, OK, you guys. But is it going to help Andy? But Andy is going to do what Andy is going to do anyway, I guess...

[cmr164]

I have picked up the pieces on several occassions and continue to see the various attempts to do so. I stand by my assertion that you need to take precautions originally described as "bs" by fish whether you are a windows user or some other OS.
Fish's comments were a bit over the top. IISC.com does run a firewall and the mailserver running on a tru64 UNIX box does spam blocking. I also run a network QoS appliance to maintain bandwidth for critical applications and destinations. On the otherhand my comments about not allowing IE or Outlook to run are absolute and are key to the no viruses in 14 years.

The one place where Fish's comments were spot on were in regards to AV S/W. AntiVirus S/W on OSX is way more dangerous than the non-existant viruses that it is defending against. If you have a Mac, DO NOT INSTALL AV!!!!! I will never forget one poor soul writing in to the support group that Norton AV had reported 6 "infected files" on his Mac had been deleted without naming the files. Who knows what files were really deleted and what system issues followed but what is sure is that there were no Apple viruses extent.

[Andy]

you got that right rutt :D

i'm actually typing this msg on a mac, first time ever since 1984 using a mac - this 30" display is

intoxicating

:lust

[ian408]

OK, OK, you guys. But is it going to help Andy? But Andy is going to do what Andy is going to do anyway, I guess...
I would hope so. If for no other reason than to realize that regardless of your
platform choice, there are things every computer user can do to insure (or at least
mitigate) the problems associated with being connected to a network.

Ian

[patch29]

you got that right rutt :D

i'm actually typing this msg on a mac, first time ever since 1984 using a mac - this 30" display is

intoxicating

:lust

We are waiting to see photos of you unloading the boxes when you get home. :deal :evil

[Andy]

We are waiting to see photos of you unloading the boxes when you get home. :deal :evil

didn't buy anything (well, i did get an ipod for my lovely wife, so she can have sting with her 24/7)....

but after viewing that 30" cinema display, i tell ya:

i am ruined! everything else is now substandard :lol3

[fish]

I have picked up the pieces on several occassions and continue to see the
various attempts to do so. I stand by my assertion that you need to take
precautions originally described as "bs" by fish whether you are a windows
user or some other OS.

So Ian...name one virus that self-installs and runs on Mac OS X. :ear

[fish]

Fish's comments were a bit over the top. IISC.com does run a firewall and the mailserver running on a tru64 UNIX box does spam blocking.
Yes, firewall is important. Hard router is best. However, I haven't seen a single port scan since I replaced my windoze boxes with macs. I also ran some tests, and the default settings for OSX shows up as complete stealth to the outside world. Nonetheless...safe sex, right?

My comments were primarily aimed at viruses and malware carried by either email or downloaded trojan.

[fish]

you got that right rutt :D

i'm actually typing this msg on a mac, first time ever since 1984 using a mac - this 30" display is

intoxicating

:lust

I've got $1 that says he buys Apple. :nod

[cmr164]

Yes, firewall is important. Hard router is best. However, I haven't seen a single port scan since I replaced my windoze boxes with macs. I also ran some tests, and the default settings for OSX shows up as complete stealth to the outside world. Nonetheless...safe sex, right?

My comments were primarily aimed at viruses and malware carried by either email or downloaded trojan.
I should have mentioned iisc.com's cisco router also. :D

Port scans do take place all the time but the OSX and UNIX boxes shrug them off. The primary weaknesses in the MS products are related to ActiveX, MS's broken messenging and sharing s/w. Blocking the apropriate ports in the router and/or firewall is a real necessity. Course giving up MS is also an avenue

[dkapp]

I've got $1 that says he buys Apple. :nod

I'll put $1 on and Apple 30" and a Windows box :D

Dave

[dkapp]

didn't buy anything (well, i did get an ipod for my lovely wife, so she can have sting with her 24/7)....

but after viewing that 30" cinema display, i tell ya:

i am ruined! everything else is now substandard :lol3

Very very cool. I have the green iPod mini & my gf has the pink one :D

It goes everywhere with me.

Dave

[ian408]

I should have mentioned iisc.com's cisco router also. :D

Port scans do take place all the time but the OSX and UNIX boxes shrug them off. The primary weaknesses in the MS products are related to ActiveX, MS's broken messenging and sharing s/w. Blocking the apropriate ports in the router and/or firewall is a real necessity. Course giving up MS is also an avenue
It's also the case that Windows users are less than careful to configure things
whereas most other vendors have tended more towards making things more
restrictive (having learned from MS's mistakes).

fish, have you heard of "opener"?

BTW, I'm not trying to turn this into a PC vs. MAC (or any other for that matter) but
trying to point out that just because you pick one thing over another does not
make you any more (or less) safer. You must still take reasonable precautions.

Besides, I have my eye on a new machine. Most likely a DP Mac.

Ian

[DavidTO]

fish, have you heard of "opener"?


Ian

Opener requires local access and administrator priveleges to infect a machine with.

Hardly a concern in the real world.

[fish]

Opener requires local access and administrator priveleges to infect a machine with.

Hardly a concern in the real world.

"hmm...this program i've never seen before wants me to give it access and admin priviledges...should I do it?" :rofl

[gus]

"hmm...this program i've never seen before wants me to give it access and admin priviledges...should I do it?" :rofl
Whats wrong with that...? It says its an update from MS right :scratch :dunno

[fish]

Whats wrong with that...? It says its an update from MS right :scratch :dunno

ain't no MS updates getting anywhere near my Mac. :rofl

[rutt]

didn't buy anything (well, i did get an ipod for my lovely wife, so she can have sting with her 24/7)....

but after viewing that 30" cinema display, i tell ya:

i am ruined! everything else is now substandard :lol3
Perfect, let's get off this stupid mac vs windows thing and help Andy with the monitor part of the equation. There is still some real fun to be had in that department.

Andy, why stop at the 30 Apple monitor. That's just prosumer gear. Consider this:

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/intellistation/t221/index.html
It's not as big as the apple monitor, but has much better resolution. In fact it's 3840x2500 pixels vs a mere 2560x1600 for the apple monitor. So what if, it's a little smaller? It's still huge. I think smaller and higher res might actually be a good thing. Of course, it's about 2x as expensive. But that's what jewelery is for, right? And now that you know not to buy it retail, you'll be able to afford this monitor with what you save.

I seem to remember that there are some other professional monitors that push the envelope, but perhaps these are no longer on the market. There was a Samsung one that was about 25 inches and I think there was also a Sony CRT that had resolution close the the IBM monitor above. Both were aimed at the CAD market. I think the niche might just not be that big, especially now that multiple monitor support is so easy. This might be a great use of ebay, if we could recover the information.

Of course, you could always fret about the the color accuracy of your monitor. The apple monitors are good in this way, but there is room for improvement. If you need for your colors to be really spot on all the time, consider this:
http://www.fotocare.com/html/product.asp?gId=20&mid=72&sid=633
I don't think any LCD monitor can compete with this in terms of color management. I had a demo once at fotocare of their color managed workflow. Do you have customers who need to tell you the exact pantones they want their products to be?

Anway, going down this road will actually save you some money vs Apple and the IBM monster above.

And OK, everyone else. Let's move on from the windows vs the world thing and have some fun here. What about that thing that Kodak has in Times Square? That's exactly what Andy needs so he can accurately preview his POTDs.

[DavidTO]

I don't think any LCD monitor can compete with this in terms of color management.

You're right, there. CRTs are more accurate. They're also so big after working with LCDs. Trade-offs with everything, I guess.

[Andy]

i have to read your post thoroughly, but it made me think, why stop here?

this is from the ny times, circuits section, today :lol3

And You Thought Your Neighbor Had a Jumbo TV
By MICHEL MARRIOTT

LIKE a lost scene from Ridley Scott's futuristic cult movie "Blade Runner," Times Square soars with glittering buildings that pulse and wink with outsized video screens.

A little more than a decade ago, there was only one, the Sony Jumbotron, which anchored the southern end of the square. Now billboard-size screens are commonplace. The newest went into service last month. Its designer, Mitsubishi Electric Power Products' Diamond Vision division, says it is one of the largest outdoor full-color high-definition video screens in the world.

Mounted in a giant picture frame on Seventh Avenue between 44th and 45th Streets, the screen is 21 feet 5 inches high by 37 feet 9 inches wide and about 4 feet deep, although most of the depth is taken up by the catwalks used to service it. With a screen area of about 800 square feet, it's about 80 times bigger than the largest home TV's.

The screen, across Times Square from the glass-walled studios of MTV, the Viacom division that owns it, can broadcast music videos, news, content from MTV's Web site and live events taking place in the studio and elsewhere.

Next month, an interactive feature will be added: pedestrians will be able to use their mobile phones to play along with programs on the screen, including text-message-based video games. And MTV executives say they are considering ways to enable viewers to hear the screen's offerings as well, either over low-power radio broadcasts or by dialing a special number on a cellphone.

Akira Tasaki, president and chief executive of Mitsubishi Electric U.S., said the high-definition display, which at its core consists of more than two million light-emitting diodes, is among his company's most technologically sophisticated screens.

For one thing, because it is a true high-definition screen - like more and more of the fanciest sets sold for home use - it displays images at 1080i resolution, meaning it paints the screen with 1,080 lines in two passes - interlaced - 30 times a second. That's more than twice the number of lines a standard-definition screen has. Each of the 1,080 lines in the HDTV screen consists of 1,920 pixels, the smallest element of an image.

At the scale of the MTV screen, those pixels are created by a bouquet of L.E.D.'s that can be controlled to produce any color. On the MTV screen, the L.E.D.'s are closely arranged in a quad pattern of two red dots, one green and one blue.

This arrangement becomes important, said David Corathers, the engineering manager for Diamond Vision, because it permits the screen to manipulate dots, creating a sort of intermediate dot he calls a dynamic pixel. This, Mr. Corathers said, helps to render sharper pictures than typical L.E.D. screens display.

The screen also requires "fewer pixels to create something that looks much, much higher in resolution," Mr. Corathers said.

Another digital technology, called color space conversion, compensates for and corrects the tendency of large L.E.D. screens to produce oversaturated colors, making, for instance, red appear more like hot pink.

The screen's specially color-tuned L.E.D.'s are mounted in a panel called a lighting unit. The lighting units are then arranged 34 high by 30 wide to create the screen that has a 16:9 aspect ratio, sometimes known as letterbox.

The units also have custom-made louvers, removable eyelids of sorts that can be used to improve the screen's viewing angle and that help maintain contrast even in bright sunlight. Like most outdoor video screens, the MTV screen has to be viewed in varying lighting conditions.

While many large L.E.D. screens are driven by off-the-shelf personal computers that process their content, Mark Foster, general manager for Diamond Vision, said the MTV screen uses high-capacity custom processors linked to MTV's studios by a fiber-optic cable.



Perfect, let's get off this stupid mac vs windows thing and help Andy with the monitor part of the equation. There is still some real fun to be had in that department.

Andy, why stop at the 30 Apple monitor. That's just prosumer gear. Consider this:

http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/intellistation/t221/index.html
It's not as big as the apple monitor, but has much better resolution. In fact it's 3840x2500 pixels vs a mere 2560x1600 for the apple monitor. So what if, it's a little smaller? It's still huge. I think smaller and higher res might actually be a good thing. Of course, it's about 2x as expensive. But that's what jewelery is for, right? And now that you know not to buy it retail, you'll be able to afford this monitor with what you save.

I seem to remember that there are some other professional monitors that push the envelope, but perhaps these are no longer on the market. There was a Samsung one that was about 25 inches and I think there was also a Sony CRT that had resolution close the the IBM monitor above. Both were aimed at the CAD market. I think the niche might just not be that big, especially now that multiple monitor support is so easy. This might be a great use of ebay, if we could recover the information.

Of course, you could always fret about the the color accuracy of your monitor. The apple monitors are good in this way, but there is room for improvement. If you need for your colors to be really spot on all the time, consider this:
http://www.fotocare.com/html/product.asp?gId=20&mid=72&sid=633
I don't think any LCD monitor can compete with this in terms of color management. I had a demo once at fotocare of their color managed workflow. Do you have customers who need to tell you the exact pantones they want their products to be?

Anway, going down this road will actually save you some money vs Apple and the IBM monster above.

And OK, everyone else. Let's move on from the windows vs the world thing and have some fun here. What about that thing that Kodak has in Times Square? That's exactly what Andy needs so he can accurately preview his POTDs.

[Andy]

Andy, why stop at the 30 Apple monitor. That's just prosumer gear. Consider this:

[indent]http://www.pc.ibm.com/us/intellistation/t221/index.html

oh man it looks very sweet! i still get an employee discount from ibm - i'll check and see what the price is on it !

need to save some shekels for the jewelry store...

[DavidTO]

And You Thought Your Neighbor Had a Jumbo TV
By MICHEL MARRIOTT

Wow. That display requires not one platform, but several, in the form of scaffolding in the back. But hey, if you've got the room to house it, more power to you. Really an impressive array of stats for that thing. I'll have to check it out when I'm back east next.

As an aside, did you ever imagine that there would be so much riding on your decision? So many here care what you buy, but in the end it really is what works for you.

I read an article somewhere that mentioned that the writer spends more time with his OS than his wife--got me to thinking. I know I do. It just points out how important it is that it works for you. And also that it's a personal decision--not as personal as your choice of a spouse, but still, it's a large part of your life.

[ian408]

oh man it looks very sweet! i still get an employee discount from ibm - i'll check and see what the price is on it !

need to save some shekels for the jewelry store...
Hope it's a good one :D At $7919, you'll need some serious cash to spend at the
jewlery store :D

[lynnesite]

The one place where Fish's comments were spot on were in regards to AV S/W. AntiVirus S/W on OSX is way more dangerous than the non-existant viruses that it is defending against. If you have a Mac, DO NOT INSTALL AV!!!!! I will never forget one poor soul writing in to the support group that Norton AV had reported 6 "infected files" on his Mac had been deleted without naming the files. Who knows what files were really deleted and what system issues followed but what is sure is that there were no Apple viruses extent.

Yeah, but you have to consider the people who will dig out an old floppy or CD full of Word97 pc macro viruses. That happens at one of my networks, and those guys run Norton (but we don't let them run LiveUpdate).

[fish]

Yeah, but you have to consider the people who will dig out an old floppy or CD full of Word97 pc macro viruses. That happens at one of my networks, and those guys run Norton (but we don't let them run LiveUpdate). lynnesite...charles was referring to MAC. You'd have a hard time putting an old word97 floppy in a mac. :D


Since I use my macs for work, my company graciously supplies site licenses for all the latest corp symantec stuff for both pc and mac. Had to keep it updated regularly on the pc and even then I got infected. Symantec for mac makes it run slower and does no good...only harm. I can't believe people pay money for that. :scratch


Yeah...i'm an apple bigot. switched this year. i save countless hours by not having to screw with my PCs. we just use them now...rather than administer them.

[PerezDesignGroup]

I could go on and on about computers. I've built all of mine. I even built my custom Linux firewall (http://www.smoothwall.org/) at home from old parts that were laying around. The only thing I've never tinkered with is over-clocking and water-cooled systems.

Here are my preferences in order...

1. Anything Mac
2. Build your own
3. Anything Alienware
4. Anything Dell with, like, maximum years in-home warranty :wink

And definitely go 64bit and dual-processor if possible. It's the future and it's fast.

[lynnesite]

lynnesite...charles was referring to MAC. You'd have a hard time putting an old word97 floppy in a mac. :D


Since I use my macs for work, my company graciously supplies site licenses for all the latest corp symantec stuff for both pc and mac. Had to keep it updated regularly on the pc and even then I got infected. Symantec for mac makes it run slower and does no good...only harm. I can't believe people pay money for that. :scratch


Yeah...i'm an apple bigot. switched this year. i save countless hours by not having to screw with my PCs. we just use them now...rather than administer them.

Fish, I'm Mac to the BONE. I'm talking about someone pulling out a floppy full of Word document files (PC) and uploading them to the Mac--the Word97 macro virus was cross platform. It went through their network like Sherman through Georgia. Not that it bothered the Macs any, but when they'd transmit documents to PC Folk, of course they arrived infected. Typhoid Mary, I used to call it, Macs could pass on all the heinous PC viruses but not get 'em.

Lynne
50 Mac consulting sites & still underemployed

[Andy]

dual mac processor kicks butt
dual pc processor, too, just a hair slower

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/145693

[pathfinder]

dual mac processor kicks butt
dual pc processor, too, just a hair slower

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/145693

My time was 20 seconds Andy. But I had several browser windows open also. :1drink

[Andy]

My time was 20 seconds Andy. But I had several browser windows open also. :1drink

i hate you.

104 seconds on my 2.4ghz sony vaio, 2yrs old machine. conincidentally, i paid $1k for this machine, now i have to pay 5x as much for 5x the performance. :scratch

[dkapp]

65 Seconds on my 1.33 GHz 12" PowerBook...uptime of 30+ days :D


Dave

[pathfinder]

65 Seconds on my 1.33 GHz 12" PowerBook...uptime of 30+ days :D


Dave

I have you and DavidTO and a few others to thank for convincing me to depart from being an unpaid Microsoft repairman:D

[DavidTO]

i hate you.

104 seconds on my 2.4ghz sony vaio, 2yrs old machine. conincidentally, i paid $1k for this machine, now i have to pay 5x as much for 5x the performance. :scratch

How do you figure 5x the price?

You must be adding extras on?

[DavidTO]

I have you and DavidTO and a few others to thank for convincing me to depart from being an unpaid Microsoft repairman:D

You're welcome!

;)

[dkapp]

I have you and DavidTO and a few others to thank for convincing me to depart from being an unpaid Microsoft repairman:D

My commission check from Apple should be here any day now :D

[DavidTO]

My commission check from Apple should be here any day now :D

Man, all I got was a toaster!

[patch29]

How do you figure 5x the price?

You must be adding extras on?

No fair Andy, if you are counting splurging in the 30" LCD, that is a bonus. :deal

[Andy]

No fair Andy, if you are counting splurging in the 30" LCD, that is a bonus. :deal

:nono

in 2002, i bought my sony desktop system - $999 - okay i've since added a gig of ram and a better graphics adapter, maybe total $400 added.

the souped up pcs, or the g5, are about $4500 - 5000, so really it's 3x. ish. sans monitor.

[patch29]

:nono

in 2002, i bought my sony desktop system - $999 - okay i've since added a gig of ram and a better graphics adapter, maybe total $400 added.

the souped up pcs, or the g5, are about $4500 - 5000, so really it's 3x. ish. sans monitor.

Are you pricing the ram through Apple? They are very expensive, but you do have a warranty that will cover it.

Are you a NAPP member? If so you can purchase via Macmall/PCmall and get some savings there on both the G5, ram and monitor, but if you want the upgraded card installed Apple is the easiest source, but you could probably buy that card from MM and sell the other one and come out ahead. I have had good results with them and have purchased 3 macs from them.

[lynnesite]

This gave me a smile today; I'm not vindictive but I also like not having to worry about stuff like this with my friends and clients:
<http://www.wired.com/news/privacy/0,1848,66141,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_7>

from Wired news about how people are connecting their holiday-gift-computers which have been under the tree (and not virus or spyware updated) and the scams that befall them.

The article never says "PCs" or "windows", but it's news for techies--everyone knows none of those victims are Macintoshes. The first thing an OS X machine does is connect to Apple's site and d/l any updates.

[pathfinder]

:nono

in 2002, i bought my sony desktop system - $999 - okay i've since added a gig of ram and a better graphics adapter, maybe total $400 added.

the souped up pcs, or the g5, are about $4500 - 5000, so really it's 3x. ish. sans monitor.


Yes Andy, but your Vaio, while a lovely machine ( I looked at them a long time - Sony has great LCDs) has only ONE microprocessor and I knew I wanted a dual processor machine. If you insist on comparing the Mac to the single processor Vaio why not consider the single processor G5 or an iMac?

I priced a Dell dual Xeon befoe I bought my MAC, and without the monitor, the DELL dual Xeon box was more than a 2 Ghsz G5. I just looked at the Dell website and found a Dell Precision workstation 470 - dual 3.2 Ghz Xeons, 2 Gb ram, 128 PCI video card, 160 Gb sata HD - no monitor Price $3257 Nice machine, but still running Wintel...

For $200 less than that, you can purchase a 2Ghz G5 with 2Gb RAM, 250 Gb sata HD, and get a super drive also and OS X and Tiger ( 64 bit OS) when it is released in the next month or so....

And once again to compare performance between the 2 Ghz Mac and the dual Xeon

http://images.apple.com/powermac/images/photoshop_index20041013.jpg

Macs REALLY don't cost more when compared to similarly equipped dual processor machines - That's my story and I'm sticking to it :D :D

[DavidTO]

Yes Andy, but your Vaio, while a lovely machine ( I looked at them a long time - Sony has great LCDs) has only ONE microprocessor and I knew I wanted a dual processor machine. If you insist on comparing the Mac to the single processor Vaio why not consider the single processor G5 or an iMac?

I priced a Dell dual Xeon befoe I bought my MAC, and without the monitor, the DELL dual Xeon box was more than a 2 Ghsz G5. I just looked at the Dell website and found a Dell Precision workstation 470 - dual 3.2 Ghz Xeons, 2 Gb ram, 128 PCI video card, 160 Gb sata HD - no monitor Price $3257 Nice machine, but still running Wintel...

For $200 less than that, you can purchase a 2Ghz G5 with 2Gb RAM, 250 Gb sata HD, and get a super drive also and OS X and Tiger ( 64 bit OS) when it is released in the next month or so....

And once again to compare performance between the 2 Ghz Mac and the dual Xeon

http://images.apple.com/powermac/images/photoshop_index20041013.jpg

Macs REALLY don't cost more when compared to similarly equipped dual processor machines - That's my story and I'm sticking to it :D :D

sniff, sniff....

dkapp, our little boy's all grown up!

[fish]

so andy, did you buy a powermac yet? quit screwing around, willya?

[Andy]

oh no - i wasn't comparing my $1k sony to a $4500 apple - i was comparing it to a $4500 apple or $4500 dual processor pc also :D

thanks for the prodding though! i'm still http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13352122-Ti.gif http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13352122-Ti.gif

Yes Andy, but your Vaio, while a lovely machine ( I looked at them a long time - Sony has great LCDs) has only ONE microprocessor and I knew I wanted a dual processor machine. If you insist on comparing the Mac to the single processor Vaio why not consider the single processor G5 or an iMac?

I priced a Dell dual Xeon befoe I bought my MAC, and without the monitor, the DELL dual Xeon box was more than a 2 Ghsz G5. I just looked at the Dell website and found a Dell Precision workstation 470 - dual 3.2 Ghz Xeons, 2 Gb ram, 128 PCI video card, 160 Gb sata HD - no monitor Price $3257 Nice machine, but still running Wintel...

For $200 less than that, you can purchase a 2Ghz G5 with 2Gb RAM, 250 Gb sata HD, and get a super drive also and OS X and Tiger ( 64 bit OS) when it is released in the next month or so....

And once again to compare performance between the 2 Ghz Mac and the dual Xeon

http://images.apple.com/powermac/images/photoshop_index20041013.jpg

Macs REALLY don't cost more when compared to similarly equipped dual processor machines - That's my story and I'm sticking to it :D :D

[pathfinder]

oh no - i wasn't comparing my $1k sony to a $4500 apple - i was comparing it to a $4500 apple or $4500 dual processor pc also :D

thanks for the prodding though! i'm still http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13352122-Ti.gif http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13352122-Ti.gif


Whatever you decide - you've been a good sport with our kvetching :D :D

[pathfinder]

sniff, sniff....

dkapp, our little boy's all grown up!
You guys created a Frankenstein, didn't you!! :D :D :D

[Andy]

You guys created a Frankenstein, didn't you!! :D :D :D

does apple do leasing through their stores? i figure i need about $8k for the system (avec le 30" cinema) $1k for software http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif



................and then there's the litle matter of tiffany's. http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13352130-Ti.gif

[dkapp]

sniff, sniff....

dkapp, our little boy's all grown up!

This is a proud moment in my life. I'm going to have to print this off and hang it on the fridge :D

[pathfinder]

does apple do leasing through their stores? i figure i need about $8k for the system (avec le 30" cinema) $1k for software http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif



................and then there's the litle matter of tiffany's. http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13352130-Ti.gif


I am not certain about leasing - If you are a teacher or a student - and they seem pretty liberal about their interpretation of this - they will discount the hardware - not a lot maybe 5%

Are you really stuck on the 30 in monitor?? - you can save $1700 by going with the 23 incher instead of the 30. If you decide later the 23 incher is too small, you could always add a 2nd 23 incher or even a 17 in LCD for Photoshop palettes and brushes which is what I did on my previous Windows box.

:dunno :dunno The Photoshop software license can be transferred to Mac - You would not have to buy another license unless you want to keep the Windows version for your laptop. What other softare will you need for ~$1k??

PS is just about the only commercial software I have purchased for my MAC. I have toyed with MS Office but I may just opt for the free Open Office.

[pathfinder]

This is a proud moment in my life. I'm going to have to print this off and hang it on the fridge :D


Hi DAD!! :rofl :D :rofl

Let it never be said that I am a slow learner!!

[fish]

I have toyed with MS Office but I may just opt for the free Open Office.

Attaboy, pathy!

[patch29]

does apple do leasing through their stores?

I don't think they lease anymore, but they offer credit through their stores, here. (http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore.woa/72602/wo/qF1XjeLYtQ6i3Pg41nmYtNAGM3P/0.0.11.1.0.6.61.0.2.0.0.7.0) I would think you could get preapproved online and buy it in person. :deal Then again if you have some good credit card offers you can probably beat their financing (they do have 90 days same as cash right now).

[Andy]

need word, excel, powerpoint. need photoshop prolly, becuase i can't find a whole case full of disks, and ps is one of my missing orig cds :cry wonder if adobe'll take my s/n and let me switch? doubt it....

yes, i'm stuck on the 30 incher -- in for a penny, in for a pound. have you ever seen me do anything halfway :lol3

that is, *if* i choose mac

i'm still waffling over the whole pc by day, mac by night thang

'course, i could solve that by getting a mac-top and then i'll have it all :D eh what? i'm in *love* with my sony vaio tr1 laptop - it's so tiny and light - weighs only 2.5 lbs. superb screen.

I am not certain about leasing - If you are a teacher or a student - and they seem pretty liberal about their interpretation of this - they will discount the hardware - not a lot maybe 5%

Are you really stuck on the 30 in monitor?? - you can save $1700 by going with the 23 incher instead of the 30. If you decide later the 23 incher is too small, you could always add a 2nd 23 incher or even a 17 in LCD for Photoshop palettes and brushes which is what I did on my previous Windows box.

:dunno :dunno The Photoshop software license can be transferred to Mac - You would not have to buy another license unless you want to keep the Windows version for your laptop. What other softare will you need for ~$1k??

PS is just about the only commercial software I have purchased for my MAC. I have toyed with MS Office but I may just opt for the free Open Office.

[pathfinder]

Attaboy, pathy!


:1drink Hi Fish!! Have you used Open Office? I am just reluctant to add MS Office and return to being an unpaid Micrososft repairman. I prefer being like the Maytag repairman - never getting called!! Looking forward to Tiger also.

All I really need is a Word and Excel clone; I have Keynote to use in lieu of PowerPoint for creating talks and such.

[fish]

:1drink Hi Fish!! Have you used Open Office? I am just reluctant to add MS Office and return to being an unpaid Micrososft repairman. I prefer being like the Maytag repairman - never getting called!! Looking forward to Tiger also. I've been using OO since I got my first Mac this summer. Before that, I used StarOffice on my PCs. Bulletproof and works very very well. Haven't found an incompatibility with a MS file yet. In fact, my entire company of ~35k people uses either SO or OO.

And btw, screw Maytag and their repairman. I've had major problems with my Neptune washer and drier. There's a class-action suit now and I'm gonna be getting a few hundred bucks back from those hineyholes.

All I really need is a Word and Excel clone; I have Keynote to use in lieu of PowerPoint for creating talks and such. Easy. Download OO and play around. Costs nothing. Support open source whereever possible!

[dkapp]

does apple do leasing through their stores? i figure i need about $8k for the system (avec le 30" cinema) $1k for software http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/11389300-Ti.gif



................and then there's the litle matter of tiffany's. http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13352130-Ti.gif

There is an EASY way to save a lot of money on your purchase. Become an apple developer, silver program. It will cost $500, but you get discount on hardware. I think its one computer how you want it, and a monitor.

Here is some quick pricing. You can look for yourself online:
http://store.apple.com/AppleStore/WebObjects/ADC?qprm=38839

DP 2.5Ghz base model -> $2999 without discount
DP 2.5Ghz base model -> $2399 with discount

Say you bump the ram, video card & HD, that is all at a discount too.

30" display -> $3299 without discount
30" display -> $2969 with discount

Remember the system you had first put together for $8123? The exact same config w/ developer discount is $6908!


$8123

will it at least kiss me in the morning?

Power Mac G5 Dual 2.5GHz
Part Number: Z0AC
56k V.92 modem
Accessory kit
8x SuperDrive (DVD-R/CD-RW)
4GB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 8x512
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
NVIDIA GeForce 6800 GT DDL w/256MB GDDR3 SDRAM
2x250GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
Dual 2.5GHz PowerPC G5
Apple Cinema HD Display (30" flat panel) Part Number: M9179LL/A

I've used this program myself, and its a huge savings. Even better yet, talk to the smugmug team. They may have a discount that they will not use this year, and let you use it.

Let me know if you need more info.

Dave

[Andy]

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13358050-L.jpg

whaddya think?

[pathfinder]

need word, excel, powerpoint. need photoshop prolly, becuase i can't find a whole case full of disks, and ps is one of my missing orig cds :cry wonder if adobe'll take my s/n and let me switch? doubt it....

I needed WORD, EXCEL and PP too, or so I thought. MS Office for the MAC is $399.
As you can see from Fish and my comments Open Office may suffice for Word and Excel.
Keynote is Apple's version of Power Point and if you have ever seen a talk created with Keynote, it just blows PowerPoint presentations into the weeds in terms of appearance and Professionalism. I was at a presentation last fall and was astounded at what can be done with Keynote. It was very apparent tht the talk had not been created in PowerPoint but a much more sophisticated program. And Keynote is some of that famous expensive Apple only software - $99 installed with your MAC.

I don't really think Adobe wants your Windows XP PS discs back - PS in Windows land has to connect to Adobe because of the activtion codes so they can just turn that off. But you should check with Adobe's support to verify that as I could be wrong.


No activation codes for Photoshop OR OS X on the MAC. Just make a dupe on an external drive and your backup hard drive is ready to rock. Plan on spending $500 for a 500Gb LaCie Firewire 800 external drive - whether you go with MAC or stay in the windoz world. ( You may have to pay extra for a Windoz box with Firewire 800 tho...) :thumb As a Pro you need a PRO back up hard drive and that is the LaCie 500GB external Firewire 800/USB2.0

[pathfinder]

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13358050-L.jpg

whaddya think?


Wow - That sounds suspiciously like mine - altho I went the cheap route and got the smaller 23 in display and the lesser video card than required by the 30 incher. One caveat is that the 2.5 Ghz is water cooled and no one really knows how this will work over the long haul - buy the Apple protection plan for three years.
When I purchased a 2nd Mac for my spouse ( yes it is expensive being married but this is better than trying to figure out why her windoz box is acting up I assure you - time IS money !) I decided to buy the 2 Ghz box and save 500 bucks and water cooling. The 2 Ghz is air cooled and this may be more conservative. Who knows.....

[Andy]

can my sony and apple exist on the same lan at home. and can they share the same broadband connection as i do now with a router etc...

[pathfinder]

can my sony and apple exist on the same lan at home. and can they share the same broadband connection as i do now with a router etc...


Absolutely - No problemo. I transferred all the image files from my XP box to my mac via my LAN I had over 100GB - be quite a bit to transfer by sneaker net.
My wife and my son used XP laptops via the wireless access to my Lincsys router which also connects to my DSL line. Both Macs are hardwired to the router. You will find that the web access seems faster with Safari or Firefox on the MAC than in XP - at least that has a consistent experience of mine.

The Mac will sniff out the Sony and if you have authorized file sharing in windows will connect seamlessly ( at least mine did. ) Macs are better at finding Windows machines than Vice Versa I suspect!!

I still use my XP laptops because they are paid for and they seem to work - the screens are a poor second to a PB but they are OK for now and the connect wirelessly to my net also. Maybe when they introduce a G5 Power book I'll opt for that.

One other thing about OS X - If you can program in Unix, there is a console on the mac that will give you the full power of UNIX. Macs can also run Linux if you would want to. Lots of options. I like options :thumb

[Andy]

Absolutely - No problemo. I transferred all the image files from my XP box to my mac via my LAN I had over 100GB - be quite a bit to transfer by sneaker net.
My wife and my son used XP laptops via the wireless access to my Lincsys router which also connects to my DSL line. Both Macs are hardwired to the router. You will find that the web access seems faster with Safari or Firefox on the MAC than in XP - at least that has a consistent experience of mine.

The Mac will sniff out the Sony and if you have authorized file sharing in windows will connect seamlessly ( at least mine did. ) Macs are better at finding Windows machines than Vice Versa I suspect!!

thanks pf - you are a big help.

[Andy]

thanks dave - i'm checking about the discount thingie right now.

[DavidTO]

http://williams.smugmug.com/photos/13358050-L.jpg

whaddya think?

Looks good. But be clear what you're going for. The dual 2.5 IS bleeding edge. Liquid cooled and all that. And the dual 2 isn't far behind it, speed-wise, and would save you $500. It's a decision only you can make. But as far as your shopping cart--no glaring problems. You can save money by getting the dual 2, and you can also save by installing the RAM yourself. All those decisions are about what it's worth to you. I install my own RAM. It's just too damn easy, and if it's going to go bad, it'll usually do it during the warranty period on it, anyway.

I will put in a vote for applecare. Ask lynnsesite about her experience--they really took care of her. Especially for the laptop and the liquid cooled G5. The laptop because it doesn't just sit at a desk, and the liquid cooled because it's newer technology.

You don't have a peecee hiding in a shopping cart somewhere, do you?

[ian408]

:1drink Hi Fish!! Have you used Open Office? I am just reluctant to add MS Office and return to being an unpaid Micrososft repairman. I prefer being like the Maytag repairman - never getting called!! Looking forward to Tiger also.

All I really need is a Word and Excel clone; I have Keynote to use in lieu of PowerPoint for creating talks and such.
I try and use OO at work. Most of the time, it's ok. But if you get an excel
spreadsheet with pivot tables or other complex stuff, you're SOL. Same with
Word documents.

In general, creating documents using OO is never a problem for me. It's when
someone sends me an office document. If I get complaints, I always follow up
with "works for me" :D

Ian

[patch29]

Wow - That sounds suspiciously like mine - altho I went the cheap route and got the smaller 23 in display and the lesser video card than required by the 30 incher. One caveat is that the 2.5 Ghz is water cooled and no one really knows how this will work over the long haul - buy the Apple protection plan for three years.

It was explained to me that the liquid cooling is new for a desktop, but the technology has been used in servers. Anyone know if that is true and if it is a safe (time tested) technology?

[pathfinder]

It was explained to me that the liquid cooling is new for a desktop, but the technology has been used in servers. Anyone know if that is true and if it is a safe (time tested) technology?
The gamers have used liquid cooling as well as Peltier cooling for quite a while. I just think this is a first for Apple. Time will tell. That's why I bought Applecare though :1drink

[cmr164]

It was explained to me that the liquid cooling is new for a desktop, but the technology has been used in servers. Anyone know if that is true and if it is a safe (time tested) technology?
Decades old technology at least 2 maybe 3 or even 4. The h/w coverage is good for a year even without Applecare and it is a bit overpriced for insurance

[DavidTO]

Decades old technology at least 2 maybe 3 or even 4. The h/w coverage is good for a year even without Applecare and it is a bit overpriced for insurance

All true, but it is a new model, new to Apple, and should be cause for concern.

You can wait and get Applecare anytime during the year, but just don't do what my friend did, forget and try to get it 10 days late. No go.

It may be a bit overpriced for insurance, but I'll tell you, people I know who've used it have been so happy they had it.

Even me, my powerbrick went out. Got a new one. Sure it's only $50 or so, but I've still got time to go on my contract, and I'm glad I have it.

Lastly, the way Andy's specing out his computer, it's obvious to me that he's more concerned with simple. He's not looking (yet) to buy his memory third party, or his drives--it's custom built by Apple, not the cheapest way to go, but no headaches. Seems like Applecare is a piece of that puzzle that makes sense.

[Andy]

All true, but it is a new model, new to Apple, and should be cause for concern.

You can wait and get Applecare anytime during the year, but just don't do what my friend did, forget and try to get it 10 days late. No go.

It may be a bit overpriced for insurance, but I'll tell you, people I know who've used it have been so happy they had it.

Even me, my powerbrick went out. Got a new one. Sure it's only $50 or so, but I've still got time to go on my contract, and I'm glad I have it.

Lastly, the way Andy's specing out his computer, it's obvious to me that he's more concerned with simple. He's not looking (yet) to buy his memory third party, or his drives--it's custom built by Apple, not the cheapest way to go, but no headaches. Seems like Applecare is a piece of that puzzle that makes sense.

actually, i was pricing ram at crucial.com - can save about $500 by adding it myself :D

finger hovering over "purchase" button though not committed yet.

[DavidTO]

actually, i was pricing ram at crucial.com - can save about $500 by adding it myself :D

finger hovering over "purchase" button though not committed yet.

Good call. Save another $500 by getting the dual 2ghz, and you're on your way to Tiffany's!

[Andy]

pf, i heard your commen