Soccer Tournament revisited

[Ann McRae]

Hi
I was brainstorming this idea in the Vegas airport with Bob Bell, Nancy Wilkins, cwphotos and dragon300zx. I've been asked back to shoot an U10 (U6, U8, U10) tournament in about a month. Two days on site shooting. Last year I agreed to do this on spec, with about 2 days to prepare (and that resulted in my home brew business cards). I then posted edited photos on smugmug, and the tournament host posted the links to the galleries. Overal I sold under $1000 in prints for what amounted to a full weeks work.



I loved shooting this tournament because the kids are really full of joy - too young to be ugly competetive. Of course, at this age the smile on the face is more important than the ball in the frame.

Some of my favorites:
http://canadian-ann.smugmug.com/photos/25206408-M.jpg

http://canadian-ann.smugmug.com/gallery/956279

So what we came up with yesterday was:
Make sure there is lots of pre event advertising and communication of how to be reached.
Sell cds of print ready photos rather than worry about photo fulfilment, possibly with a preorder component.
Maybe include portraits, special personalized cd covers.

I had considered getting set up for on site printing but that requires on site editing.

I'd like to keep the number of assistants down (to keep costs down) but know I cannot do it alone like I did last year. I am contemplating having a second shooter come with.

Any other thoughts? I'd like to see if I could double the income (minimum) from last year. I have enough time to plan a few strategies.

Thanks

ann

[THE TOUCH]

ann

Ann - Can I ask what you charged for prints last year? I'm working on doing the same type of thing for Paintball but I'm still tossing on the prices.

Thanks!

[Catto]

Sell cds of print ready photos rather than worry about photo fulfilment, possibly with a preorder component.

Hi Ann; just to play devil's advocate here, what's to prevent someone from each team buying one CD, and printing the whole team's images from your print-ready files?

That wouldn't really help with your plan to double income - and that's why I don't sell print-ready files (or files at all, as I reckon any file you sell will be used for printing, good or bad). Sure, fulfillment is a hassle - but it ensures you're involved in quality control at the print stage.

Plus, you're offering professional lab prints (not un-colour-managed home inkjet versions), which is an opportunity to sell them as premium quality prints, at a premium price. I think offering the self-print option will undercut that, and leave you with less overall income.

You also have an opportunity to label the prints with your copyright info, so if in a few years they're faded or damaged, the individual parents (or children) know where to find you to get the file re-printed. Which of course they'd be able to do themselves if you sell them a disc, which again limits income potential...

Just one take on it. We all have to do what makes us happy.
R!

[JimM]

Did you break up the galleries for each game/team? Seems the easier it is for people to find pictures of their child, the more they will buy. I still need to learn how to enable sorting by player number.

[Ann McRae]

Ann - Can I ask what you charged for prints last year? I'm working on doing the same type of thing for Paintball but I'm still tossing on the prices.

Thanks!

Hey

Well, I basically said 75% margin - so for a 4 x 6 that costs 25 cents to print I charged $2, a 5 x 7 was $10 and an 8 x 12 was $20 (if I remember correctly.) Some difficulty - trust - people order but do not pick up, people buy 4 x 6s and then reproduce them, etc.

But really, what do I want with a whole whack of photos of other peoples kids - so if I could presell to generate several $ that would be great - hence the reason for considering the cd idea.

ann

[Ann McRae]

[quote=Catto]Hi Ann; just to play devil's advocate here, what's to prevent someone from each team buying one CD, and printing the whole team's images from your print-ready files?

Actually - I was thinking if they preordered I'd concentrate on their kid - I would let them pick a selection, but not offer the whole team on one disk.

Sure, fulfillment is a hassle - but it ensures you're involved in quality control at the print stage.


True.


Plus, you're offering professional lab prints (not un-colour-managed home inkjet versions), which is an opportunity to sell them as premium quality prints, at a premium price.

Also true.


Great feedback, appreciate all the food for thought I can get.

ann

[Ann McRae]

Did you break up the galleries for each game/team? Seems the easier it is for people to find pictures of their child, the more they will buy. I still need to learn how to enable sorting by player number.

Yes, to the best of my ability - the organizer could not provide me with an actual schedule so I made best guesses..... it did help to have many galleries with time/age group identifiers on them.

ann

[THE TOUCH]

Hey

Well, I basically said 75% margin - so for a 4 x 6 that costs 25 cents to print I charged $2, a 5 x 7 was $10 and an 8 x 12 was $20 (if I remember correctly.) Some difficulty - trust - people order but do not pick up, people buy 4 x 6s and then reproduce them, etc.

But really, what do I want with a whole whack of photos of other peoples kids - so if I could presell to generate several $ that would be great - hence the reason for considering the cd idea.

ann

Thanks Ann!

I noticed the same thing with 4x6's. Really stinks. Next shoot I'm going to remove the smaller prints and start at 5x7.

[mercphoto]

Well, I basically said 75% margin - so for a 4 x 6 that costs 25 cents to print I charged $2, a 5 x 7 was $10 and an 8 x 12 was $20 (if I remember correctly.) Some difficulty - trust - people order but do not pick up, people buy 4 x 6s and then reproduce them, etc.
If your sales are like mine, you sell about 70% 4x6's. Its why I charge three times what you do for 4x6's. I would consider raising the price on those by quite a bit. Would help with the bottom line.

[JimM]

If your sales are like mine, you sell about 70% 4x6's. Its why I charge three times what you do for 4x6's. I would consider raising the price on those by quite a bit. Would help with the bottom line.

I agree!!!

[Ann McRae]

I've agreed to do this - its next weekend. Increase the 4 x 6 price....what else?

ann

[kammerman]

Hi Ann,

I just happened across this thread.

I agree with the others, the prices for your 4x6 prints are way too low.

Price for what the market will bear, not based on a markup.

For example, an 8x10 mounted photo, including artwork, from a portrait session is $195. 5x7s are $135. I know others who charge way more.

For a sport event, your 4x6s should be at least $6 or $7. Do packages as well.

Lisa

[Ann McRae]

Still being postponed - boy it is wet here!!! Hoping that this will happen on Sunday, and at least then it won't conflict with the Oilers game. I pointed out it does conflict with Brasil world cup soccer....

In any case, I raised prices and am plenty organized...now just need for it to happen.

ann

[Ann McRae]

It seems like I've got millions of photos to post to smugmug from this. In addition (and as a result) I've done 4 U4/6 team and individual photos at $10 per kid (and boy do I love the 135 f2 now!!!!) and another teams game photos for making a collage for them at $25 a head.

So if I could do that weekly, I could in fact quit my day job!!!!!

And I have been asked to do family portraits again. After discussions with the gang at the airport, I am inclined to say yes to that as well!

I'll let you all know the tally when it is done.

Ann

[cwphotos]

Congrats Ann !!! Im glad it all turned out well. Keep us in the loop. :clap

[THE TOUCH]

Hi Ann :wave

Question for you...did the $10 include prints or was that just a sitting fee? Did you print on location or send them to your smugmug site?

Thanks! Congratulations!

It seems like I've got millions of photos to post to smugmug from this. In addition (and as a result) I've done 4 U4/6 team and individual photos at $10 per kid (and boy do I love the 135 f2 now!!!!) and another teams game photos for making a collage for them at $25 a head.

So if I could do that weekly, I could in fact quit my day job!!!!!

And I have been asked to do family portraits again. After discussions with the gang at the airport, I am inclined to say yes to that as well!

I'll let you all know the tally when it is done.

Ann

[Ann McRae]

Congrats Ann !!! Im glad it all turned out well. Keep us in the loop. :clap

Thanks Dean. Sales from the tournament are S-L-O-W...

Only about $200 so far.

Check them out - they are public but passworded - password is spark.

Ann

[cwphotos]

roger that. Looking now. Its a slow afternoon at work. :uhoh

[Ann McRae]

Hi Ann :wave

Question for you...did the $10 include prints or was that just a sitting fee? Did you print on location or send them to your smugmug site?

Thanks! Congratulations!

Hi Kevin
Well the $10 T & I includes the prints, but it is what the rate is here. I sent them to the local lab for printing, and had the team manager pick them up after that. For $10 you get a 4 x 6 individual (my cost is $0.19) a 5 x 7 team (my cost is $0.49) and a mat (my cost is $0.99). So there is $8 left to cover time and expenses. The key is to shoot properly so there is no editing to be done.

I'll post them eventually - there are some awesome photos from the group, and the clients are thrilled.

ann

[cwphotos]

They look great Ann. I didnt check out all of them (there are like a gazillion) but the 5-6 galleries I looked through were awesome. Great angles and shots for not being post processed.....goes a long way to show the skill :wink.

I hope those sales pick up. But hey $200 so far is better than a sharp stick in the eye. LOL :rofl

[THE TOUCH]

Hi Kevin
Well the $10 T & I includes the prints, but it is what the rate is here. I sent them to the local lab for printing, and had the team manager pick them up after that. For $10 you get a 4 x 6 individual (my cost is $0.19) a 5 x 7 team (my cost is $0.49) and a mat (my cost is $0.99). So there is $8 left to cover time and expenses. The key is to shoot properly so there is no editing to be done.

I'll post them eventually - there are some awesome photos from the group, and the clients are thrilled.

ann

Sounds like a great package! That would be a lot of editing!!!

Thanks for the info - Kevin

[Ann McRae]

Kevin - have a look here:
http://canadian-ann.smugmug.com/gallery/1615406

Password is spark

Dean - the action shots aren't strictly unedited - horizons straightened, cropped and black point set for sure. It was a variable cloudy day - really hard to shoot and keep settings correct. I think I will go all RAW next year - since I have the Epson P2000 I could shoot to my hearts content. I love the editing ease RAW provides.

ann

[THE TOUCH]

Ann - great job! I was laughing the whole time! I love your poses and environment - very natural, fun, and "kid" like!:thumb :clap



Kevin - have a look here:
http://canadian-ann.smugmug.com/gallery/1615406

Password is spark

Dean - the action shots aren't strictly unedited - horizons straightened, cropped and black point set for sure. It was a variable cloudy day - really hard to shoot and keep settings correct. I think I will go all RAW next year - since I have the Epson P2000 I could shoot to my hearts content. I love the editing ease RAW provides.

ann

[Ann McRae]

So far (three weeks post tournament, two weeks after all the posting done) and there have been $63 in sales via smugmug and $175 purchased directly from me. Really not as lucrative as it should be.

Then there has been the 4 sets of team photos for a total of $320, and two further projects of shooting a game full of action shots for a team (17 x $25).

This thread
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=37180
has some interesting discussion in it regarding this kind of business model. Love Ziggy's line about popcorn.