i wanna mac.

[DanielB]

was playing around with one of our Schools' many macs... and i love it. now i want one but i'm not sure which ones for me... basicly try to remember its for a student so i do have a limited budget nothing outrageous, i wanna run CS2 on it and i'll be using it for everything....


should i get a desktop or laptop:dunno

P.S.- whats the signifigance of it having an Intel Processor? does that mean i could run some of my PC programs on it? and whats the advantages of a Mac over my PC?


thanks,
Daniel

[ChrisJ]

Your homework for the next week is to read this thread:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=7386

[patch29]

I am working on putting XP on a Macbook that I just bought to see if it will let me run Garmin GPS mapping software. I have been randomly posting shots in the Andy mac thread.

Fingers crossed.

Info here (http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/) from Apple on how to do it.


This is very important.

A bona fide installation disc for Microsoft Windows XP, Service Pack 2, Home or Professional (No multi-disc, upgrade or Media Center versions.)

[DanielB]

Your homework for the next week is to read this thread:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=7386

aye, i've been readin' some of that.:wink

[DanielB]

how's this sounding...

Notebook Option:
13" Macbook with 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo

customized with 1gb of SDram instead of 512mb
and 80GB Serial ATA drive instead of the standard 60...
comes to 1,184...

Desktop Option:
Apple 17" LCD
iMac 1.9GHz G5 Display Computer with Built-in iSight - 17" LCD, 512MB, 160GB, SuperDrive, Built-in Speakers - Front Row and Apple Remote

[W.W. Webster]

how's this sounding...

Notebook Option:
13" Macbook with 1.83GHz Intel Core Duo

customized with 1gb of SDram instead of 512mb
and 80GB Serial ATA drive instead of the standard 60...
comes to 1,184...

Desktop Option:
Apple 17" LCD
iMac 1.9GHz G5 Display Computer with Built-in iSight - 17" LCD, 512MB, 160GB, SuperDrive, Built-in Speakers - Front Row and Apple RemoteIMHO, one of the key reasons for getting a desktop rather than notebook would be to use a larger display, as is particularly important for image post-production work.

If you are getting any notebook, I would suggest getting the largest screen possible (i.e. 17"). With a desktop, the absolute minimum display I would get would be a 20", but preferably 23" or larger. I have had a 20" cinema display for several years. It is excellent as far as it goes, and I now find it barely adequate for serious manipulation of images.

[Jamoke]

Intel means you can play WOW on a laptop. and also do your photos. I just gota MacBook Pro (Not a student anymore). I love it. I've got it in Windows right now - and I'm about to start gaming. But after gaming I've got to touch up and upload some pictures - so I'll open up aperature, and choose a few favorites, throw them in CS2, Save and upload.

If you want a better screen - use your current moniter as a second screen. Or when you get the cash, get an apple cinema display. You can always hork one of those next to your macbook, and enjoy the extra pixels. (Windows or Mac OS X)

I've been a mac addict for 12 years. But Windows is a necessary evil. I love it. Get a laptop. You'll be grateful later.

Edit: G5's are going the way of the buffalo. Desktop Intel chips are coming so you could wait....

[W.W. Webster]

I've been a mac addict for 12 years. But Windows is a necessary evil.I've been using Macs for more than 20 years. I agree that Windows is evil but, thankfully, it's also completely unnecessary!

[patch29]

I've been using Macs for more than 20 years. I agree that Windows is evil but, thankfully, it's also completely unnecessary!


I avoided windows for years, but finally caved in when I only had to buy the software. I wanted to use GPS and mapping software it was the best route to take. I don't expect to boot to XP often, mostly only for the mapping software. I felt lost in XP, nothing works how I want it too. :uhoh

[ellepixels]

I avoided windows for years, but finally caved in when I only had to buy the software. I wanted to use GPS and mapping software it was the best route to take. I don't expect to boot to XP often, mostly only for the mapping software. I felt lost in XP, nothing works how I want it too. :uhoh


I purchased a 20 inch imac (G4) 2 years ago, and never looked back!:clap
i love all my toys on it, and all the consistancy, and stability.

[Jamoke]

I've been using Macs for more than 20 years. I agree that Windows is evil but, thankfully, it's also completely unnecessary!

I'm an engineer - AutoDesk Products aren't made for a mac. Thus - Windows is demanded. Autocad 2007, and 3D studio max 7. Mandatory Windows User - Despite my efforts, and preference. (Oh and Video Games.)

But none of that has any presedence in this thread, or this case.

[marlof]

My next will be -again- a Mac. I've always had both a Windows desktop and a Mac notebook. I need to run Windows specific applications, since I work in a Windows world where we use apps that aren't available for Mac and run dogslow on Virtual PC. With my next notebook, I'll be able to have it dual boot. If I like how that works out, my next desktop might as well be a Mac.

[THE TOUCH]

should i get a desktop or laptop:dunno

P.S.- whats the signifigance of it having an Intel Processor? does that mean i could run some of my PC programs on it? and whats the advantages of a Mac over my PC?


Daniel -

If you want to do more than word processing, MAC is the way to go. I switched 6-7 years ago and never looked back. There are still times when I'm working on the MAC that I say "wow...that's cool!" Never crashes, can go forever without rebooting, and just flat out works.

As for desktop or laptop, there's some things you might want to consider -

Laptops:
The MacBook (formally iBook) are the cheaper version but they are cheaper for a reason. Though the system works great, the screen is poor quality and the body/frame is cheap. These are considered your basic laptop - not for editing by any means.

Now the MacBook Pro (formally PowerBook) is the monster of all laptops. Beautiful screen, sexy frame/body, and very strong design. I use the 15" and it's the perfect size for portability. The 17" is just too big to carry around. It's great for a while with it's big screen but it's just really big. I suggest the 15" and if you want a bigger screen, buy another monitor. Plus the 15" is ~$800 buck cheaper than the 17".

Desktops:
The Mac mini is actually pretty cool. I've heard nothing but good things about it. Though your limited on the speed, it's very cheap and allows you to spend more money on a screen! We need a desktop and have actually considered buying one of these just so we can get the larger screen. 23" is the largest you can go on the screen (I think).

The iMacs aren't too bad either for the price and the screen isn't that bad though lacking in resolution.

And the monster of all monsters...the Power Mac G5. And if your going to buy a G5, you cannot go without the Cinema Display. The two were born to go together! :wink

So, if you're tight on cash, I'd recommended the 15" MacBook Pro or the iMac. But, as anything goes with Mac, you'll be happy with whatever you get! (except the MacBook!:D )

As for the Intel - no, you will not be able to run PC programs on a Mac. But...it is possible to run a windows operating system on a Mac (with added software) then run your PC programs through windows. I don't know much about this since I try to stay as far away from windows as possible! :gun2 (that's me shooting my windows computer!)

The reason for the switch to Intel (from what I've read) was because PowerPC (former processor) could not keep up with where Mac wanted to go and of coarse, Intel can. Buy an Intel because PowerPC's will not be supported after 2 years. Unless of coarse your planning on upgrading in 2 years.

Okay...I'm done. Can you tell I love MAC!?:D Hope this helps!!!

[gus]

Or you can wait for vista to come out & have your cake & eat it as well.











That should bring 'em on !

[ChrisJ]

I second getting a laptop and a 2nd display when possible. It is very easy to setup/use dual-monitors. Especially as a student, the portability should easily payoff very quickly.

Or you can wait for vista to come out & have your cake & eat it as well.

That should bring 'em on !

Pay no attention to the troll, please!











:hide :wink

[gus]

I second getting a laptop and a 2nd display when possible. It is very easy to setup/use dual-monitors. Especially as a student, the portability should easily payoff very quickly.



Pay no attention to the troll, please!











:hide :wink

I can only go by what i have read & been told in this forum but ...it appears that the last 2 exciting developments in the mac world is that mac now uses an intel chip & also a programme to run windows. Hey daniel...save yourself some camera/lens money & buy the PC in the first place. :scratch

[THE TOUCH]

I can only go by what i have read & been told in this forum but ...it appears that the last 2 exciting developments in the mac world is that mac now uses an intel chip & also a programme to run windows. Hey daniel...save yourself some camera/lens money & buy the PC in the first place. :scratch

I can't understand why someone would want to waste ANY time on a PC. How can you get any work done with it freezing, crashing, slowing down, stalling, pop-up errors, and oh...you gotta love the error reports!

BTW - great work in your galleries :D .

[ChrisJ]

Plenty of places to discuss Mac vs. PC. Daniel wants a Mac, lets help him get the right one for him. Either type of system does the job.

:deadhorse

Edit: Okay, ignore that... he did ask what the advantages are of a Mac over a PC.

Flame on!

I'm a professional System Administrator, so take these from that perspective:

Mac positives: Unix based, currently less targeted by virus/worm writers, "just works" (usually), very happy customers even if something goes wrong, can run Windows XP natively now (and all its apps), Style.

Mac negatives: Proprietary hardware (even with Intel), less software including games, less bang for the buck, touchpad (that's a personal one for me).

I have end users with both PC and Mac (and Linux!) Laptops. They are each happy with their choice for various reasons. Properly configured, neither have any problems with crashing. One user who bought a Mac laptop got a lemon, and was not satisfied until the entire system was replaced, then she was happy as a clam. I've seen similar experiences with Dell/Gateway/IBM/etc systems.

[gus]

Plenty of places to discuss Mac vs. PC. Daniel wants a Mac, lets help him get the right one for him. Either type of system does the job.

:deadhorse

I will do as i please. If you dont like what i write...ignor it.

[gus]

I can't understand why someone would want to waste ANY time on a PC. How can you get any work done with it freezing, crashing, slowing down, stalling, pop-up errors, and oh...you gotta love the error reports!

BTW - great work in your galleries :D .
Drop in a few free programmes & no issues at all. I actually dont work on a computer...i use it for entertainment only.:1drink

[ChrisJ]

I will do as i please. If you dont like what i write...ignor it.

No worries, Gus... He did ask for it... (see my edit above)

[W.W. Webster]

Or you can wait for vista to come out & have your cake & eat it as well.... and wait, and wait, and wait ..... and it still won't be 'cake', it'll still be MS BS!

[gus]

... and wait, and wait, and wait ..... and it still won't be 'cake', it'll still be MS BS!

Thats 3 so far... (http://www.abc.se/~m10354/txt/bilder/larstall.jpg)

[ChrisJ]

Thats 3 so far... (http://www.abc.se/~m10354/txt/bilder/larstall.jpg)

Heh heh.

Let me add one to my Mac negatives: Fanatical users who think Wintel is bad just because their stuff runs ~90% of systems.

Oh, right... Macs run on Intel CPUs now. :D

[marlof]

The Mac hardware looks way cooler than most other stuff. I mean, all this pro and conra on the OSes is boring. I use both, and at times loath both. Both are far from the user friendly operating system I'd ideally use.

I have to keep a close eye (by third party apps) on the security of my Windows system. And sometimes I end up in .dll hell. But if you know the system, you can solve most problems you have on a Winbox yourself. Just like you can fix your own car, if you take the time to learn how it works.

On the other hand, I have to remember all kinds of three and four fingers salutes for my Mac when I want (for example) to reset the battery EPROM, so that my fricking battery starts remembering again that it has some life in it. And I end up in the "reset rights hell" on my Mac. Again, if you take the time to learn the system, the Mac OS has some mighty powerful tools that will help you. But where's the user friendliness in starting up Terminal?

The advantage of a Winbox is that it usually uses parts that are easily user serviced. Your DVD drive breaks? No sweat, buy a new third party one for a few bucks, and put it in. The downside to Apple hardware is that they can't seem to get their Rev A hardware bugfree. Issue here, issue there. Next to that, people say that Apple has great customer service. Sure. They need it, since so many things are proprietary, and it's much harder for a simple Joe like me to replace Mac parts. So you end up with great service bills if your hardware breaks after the year of warranty. Which you can avoid by getting Apple Care. Which is bloody expensive.

On the other side: Mac hardware does look jummy. And the software too. I can't ignore the fact that so far, Mac has industrial design high in their priorities, whereas it seems that Win boxes and software are designed by programmers who like to doodle on the side.

[colourbox]

IMHO, one of the key reasons for getting a desktop rather than notebook would be to use a larger display, as is particularly important for image post-production work.

Monitor size has never been a key reason for me to choose desktop over laptop due to the fact that every laptop I've owned, going back to my 1992 PowerBook, has been capable of driving a color monitor larger than the built-in laptop display. The MacBook Pros and the last PowerBook 15" and up can drive Apple's largest display, 30" (2560 x 1600). Macs also make it easy to calibrate the laptop and external monitors separately.

Better reasons for getting a real desktop for photography are the ability to use more than 2GB of RAM and very large, fast, multiple internal hard drives for storage and Photoshop scratch. For this reason I've never seriously considered the iMac with its 2GB limit and single internal drive bay, though connecting FireWire external drives is fine. It's either a pro laptop or a pro, seriously expandable tower for me. Still saving up for the tower though...

[kini62]

was playing around with one of our Schools' many macs... and i love it. now i want one but i'm not sure which ones for me... basicly try to remember its for a student so i do have a limited budget nothing outrageous, i wanna run CS2 on it and i'll be using it for everything....


should i get a desktop or laptop:dunno

P.S.- whats the signifigance of it having an Intel Processor? does that mean i could run some of my PC programs on it? and whats the advantages of a Mac over my PC?


thanks,
Daniel

I can't think of and REAL advantage of running a Mac over a PC. I've used both on and off for the last 12 years or so. Both work. Although the old Apple OS (the system series) was kind of clunky.

I've been on Win XP for the last (well since it came out) and I've had little to no problems, no virii, no spyware. I'm on DSL(three years now) and I run NO antivirus or anti spyware, just a firewall. The spyware virii supposed advantage that OSX has is overblown as are most such things.

OSX is cool and visually way ahead of windows, even the yet to be released Vista. But cool and visually attractive is not a real advantage, it's just nice, that's all.

Mac hardware is a little more expensive, but it's integrated nicely with the OS.

Dell has made inquries into offering OSX boxes- maybe you'll see that some day.

The Mac mini and Macbook are both graphically crippled with onboard graphics chips that share system memory, so forget about any thing that requires more than a bare minimum of 3D processing power. Also that 1GB of memory after OS loads and graphics demands, is more like 512mb at best.

At a minimum if you want a Mac the iMac 20".

If you can wait, a tower with the new Intel desktop chips would be the way to go for the long run (if you can afford it).

No need to spend the extra for the Apple display (other than looks). The Dell monitors in corresponding sizes are as good or better and cost much less.

If you have to have a Mac, then either Macbook Pro or wait for the new towers.

If you just need more processing power, then any old Windows Pc with either Intel of Amd dual core will work just as good (and better in some cases) than the Mac.

Have fun with your shopping:):

Gene

[DanielB]

i was thinking i would keep my current 17" for dual screen... then get a 21" monitor for 450ish maybe and then the Mac mini.... what would i be sacrificing if i did this? are they just as expensive to repair as a laptop?:dunno
heres what i was thinking... Mac Mini (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=425125&is=REG)+ 21" monitor (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=399910&is=REG) + shipping = 1207
whats the difference in speed from Intel core solo and Intel core duo?


what could i get if i sold my PC? i built my own PC in 6th grade...

MSI Ti4600 128mb DDR
MSI 648 Max motherboard
Pentium 4 Processor
130GB Hardrive *not sure about this one*
512mb of memory
one sweet ass case worth 100 alone

i'll double check on some stuff...

[johno]

Geesh! I hope your happy Daniel.
Can't we all just be friends and have a pepsi? :D

peace.
johno~

[kini62]

i was thinking i would keep my current 17" for dual screen... then get a 21" monitor for 450ish maybe and then the Mac mini.... what would i be sacrificing if i did this? are they just as expensive to repair as a laptop?:dunno
heres what i was thinking... Mac Mini (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=425125&is=REG)+ 21" monitor (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=399910&is=REG) + shipping = 1207
whats the difference in speed from Intel core solo and Intel core duo?


what could i get if i sold my PC? i built my own PC in 6th grade...

MSI Ti4600 128mb DDR
MSI 648 Max motherboard
Pentium 4 Processor
60GB Hardrive *not sure about this one*
1 gig of memory
one sweet ass case worth 100 alone

i'll double check on some stuff...

"whats the difference in speed from Intel core solo and Intel core duo?"

Well the dual core does make a big difference if the program supports multiple processors. It would be worth it to go for the dual core.

You sure about the Mac Mini? Built in graphics chip that shares system memory is kind of lame and limiting.

As for your PC you'd be lucky to get a $100 total. They ain't worth much when you can buy a new one with a monitor and warranty for $299. IMO

Gene

[DanielB]

You sure about the Mac Mini? Built in graphics chip that shares system memory is kind of lame and limiting.

:nah i was lookin through B&H's catalog and this looked nice... i could make this a nice set-up with my current 17"

1,289
17" iMac..
1.83GHz Intel Core Duo Processor
512mb 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
160GB SATA Hard Drive
ATI Radeon X1600 128mb

[THE TOUCH]

On the other hand, I have to remember all kinds of three and four fingers salutes for my Mac when I want (for example) to reset the battery EPROM, so that my fricking battery starts remembering again that it has some life in it. And I end up in the "reset rights hell" on my Mac.

Can you expand on this one??? I'm very interested! I've had my powerbook for several years with the original battery and the life of the battery really stinks now. Also, lately, the meter will say I have ~45 min left then all of the sudden, poof! No more!

Does this sound like the same thing?

[devbobo]

Daniel,

I'm surprised you're not attending the mac love-in (otherwise known as the dgrin shootout) :lol3:lol3

David

[gus]

Daniel,

I'm surprised you're not attending the mac love-in (otherwise known as the dgrin shootout) :lol3:lol3

David
Wasnt that the 'canon love-in' ?

[devbobo]

Wasnt that the 'canon love-in' ?
Could be...but there is a growing number of people (particular mods) succuming to the skivvy wearing antics. :lol3

[marlof]

Can you expand on this one??? I'm very interested! I've had my powerbook for several years with the original battery and the life of the battery really stinks now. Also, lately, the meter will say I have ~45 min left then all of the sudden, poof! No more! Does this sound like the same thing?

That sounds remarkably like my four year old battery. I think our battery lifespan is simply over. Batteries like this don't last forever.

The battery PMU (why the heck did I write EPROM??) thing was worse: the battery no longer accepted any charging. It just thought it was dead. So there went my mobility, I had to use my notebook while hooked to a power source. So I googled and found something on Macfixit (http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20051026080758616), which also has a link to an Apple support page (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449) on this issue.

You might want to try some tips reported on the Macfixit page though, may be it helps restoring the reliabilty of your battery meter.

[DavidTO]

Daniel,

Set yourself a budget, and then ask your questions. We need to know how much you want to spend and what you want to do, what's important to you.

[gubbs]

Could be...but there is a growing number of people (particular mods) succuming to the skivvy wearing antics. :lol3

mine's broken down :cry

[THE TOUCH]

That sounds remarkably like my four year old battery. I think our battery lifespan is simply over. Batteries like this don't last forever.

The battery PMU (why the heck did I write EPROM??) thing was worse: the battery no longer accepted any charging. It just thought it was dead. So there went my mobility, I had to use my notebook while hooked to a power source. So I googled and found something on Macfixit (http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=20051026080758616), which also has a link to an Apple support page (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=14449) on this issue.

You might want to try some tips reported on the Macfixit page though, may be it helps restoring the reliabilty of your battery meter.

Thanks. I think I just need to break down and buy a new battery!

Thanks for the link - great artical on the batteries - great site too. I've bookmarked it.

[Jamoke]

Will you install boot camp, and windows? Do you intend to use this machine as a WOW box as well as for editing? Can you see yourself editing or even importing anywhere other than your home? Any PC Programs you can't leave behind?

(This isn't a Mac VS PC forum) I would recommend the portability. The Mac Mini is as difficult to upgrade as a laptop. It is a laptop - without a screen. Some people have said the MacBook isn't for editing... Why not? the graphics card is decent, same processor, same amount of RAM... Same hard drive - different case, and different screen, but so what? If your using a seperate moniter anyway, you can use your current 17" as a proof if the 13" on a macbook isn't good enough. The iMac is a good idea, but the portability is a sacrifice. It's about the same hardware as the macbook, but a better screen for about the same price... So Better screen vs portability.... - and two 17" screens vs. a portable 13, and a fixed 17"... I think MacBook - and I'd go core duo, because the core 2 duo is coming, and the core single is phasing out... You can look up the specs of the difference, but I think you need the core duo for editing purposes.

OH!!! and the iMac doesn't have the processer souldered into it - so it's replaceable. you can put the MEROM chip in an iMac, while you'll have to buy a new MacBook to get the MEROM into it... so the iMac is a little more upgradeable. iMac has a replaceable hard drive - up to 500 GB while the MacBooks are limited at 120.


Selling your PC will probably not result in much. I took my Dell XPS Gen 2 Laptop in for some quotes (Pentium M 2.13, 2 GB, 100 GB, nVidia 6800 256 MB, 17" WXVGA, DVD+-RW DL, etc.) and I was only offered 700 bucks. I laughed and laughed... E-Bay some have sold well - but re-selling computers is difficult. (At least I haven't had much luck)


What happened to your Guitar? Or your 17-40L...:dunno

[DanielB]

:nod its gonna be running WoW and CS2 both...

thanks for all the advice guys

What happened to your Guitar? Or your 17-40L...:dunno

got both, but this is my next planned purchase...
i'm just doing this so i can help set a goal to reach and then i'll confirm my options once i have the money... i'm a super-saver:D

[DanielB]

Daniel,

I'm surprised you're not attending the mac love-in (otherwise known as the dgrin shootout) :lol3:lol3

David

i wish... but schools still goin on for me... i don't get out till the 31st:wxwax


dad promised to take me next year though :D

[kini62]

:nod its gonna be running WoW and CS2 both..
:D


In that case you will want to avoid the Mac Mini and the MacBook. As I've said before the built in graphics adapter cannot handle 3d stuff vrey well. Especially games at any kind of resolution.

How's your current rig work for WOW? Cause it's WAY better than the GMA chip that comes with the Mini and Mac Book.

So, iMac or MacBook Pro would be the way to go. You will defenitely want a real graphics card.

Are you sure you want a Mac?:dunno You could rebuild your current rig with new components to be a smoking PS and game machine for a third of the price of a Mac.

Just a thought.:):

Gene

[DanielB]

In that case you will want to avoid the Mac Mini and the MacBook. As I've said before the built in graphics adapter cannot handle 3d stuff vrey well. Especially games at any kind of resolution.

How's your current rig work for WOW? Cause it's WAY better than the GMA chip that comes with the Mini and Mac Book.

So, iMac or MacBook Pro would be the way to go. You will defenitely want a real graphics card.

Are you sure you want a Mac?:dunno

:nod my main reason for wanting a mac is because i get tired of having McAffee scan my computer every other day because hackers keep making new viruses for P.C.... also my school next year uses only macs and i think its better that i stick to one system. i love the mac system and what it has to offer. i think i'll be running into alot more in the PP world and i think its better to make the switch early while i'm still willing to not be stubborn about P.C./mac debates and such.

is the graphics card in the iMac replaceable/upgradable? i mean its the same mb as my current one but i'd really like to have a 256 if possible...

[THE TOUCH]

my main reason for wanting a mac is because i get tired of having McAffee scan my computer every other day because hackers keep making new viruses for P.C.... also my school next year uses only macs and i think its better that i stick to one system. i love the mac system and what it has to offer.

YEAH! Good Answer, Good Answer! :clap :super

[devbobo]

:nod my main reason for wanting a mac is because i get tired of having McAffee scan my computer every other day because hackers keep making new viruses for P.C
haha, you're going to stick your head in the sand like DavidTO.

nice !!! :lol3

[kini62]

:nod my main reason for wanting a mac is because i get tired of having McAffee scan my computer every other day because hackers keep making new viruses for P.C.... also my school next year uses only macs and i think its better that i stick to one system. i love the mac system and what it has to offer. i think i'll be running into alot more in the PP world and i think its better to make the switch early while i'm still willing to not be stubborn about P.C./mac debates and such.

is the graphics card in the iMac replaceable/upgradable? i mean its the same mb as my current one but i'd really like to have a 256 if possible...

All good reasons for going Mac. It's hard to be on a different system then everyone else. So if your school uses Macs then...

As for the graphics card in the iMac, I don't think it's replaceble since it (iMac) basically uses the MacBook Pro motherboard. I believe the chip is soldered on:cry

The iMac is availlable BTO with the 256mb version of the same card. The XT1600 is a capable card, just don't expect to run WOW at 1680x1050 with everything turned on full blast.

The iMac 20" is the one I would get if I could not get the new Intel powered tower. It's the best bang for the buck, and if you're going to be dorming in college then the compact size is nice. Add a TV tuner card (USB) and you have a really nice TV as well.

Good luck with school and all. It's a real breath of fresh air to see someone so young and so well grounded these days:):

Gene

[Jamoke]

is the graphics card in the iMac replaceable/upgradable? i mean its the same mb as my current one but i'd really like to have a 256 if possible...

I know the processor is replaceable only in the iMac. and I know that the iMac uses an upgradeable port for the video card, I just don't know if anybody makes a video card that would work as an upgrade for the iMac. If nobody makes one now, the trick would be finding one supported on Mac and PC. That kind of nightmare isn't one that I would wish on an enemy. If you are interested in that, I'd say the soonest it would be possible is when leapord comes out, and you get a broader support base for windows and Mac. - then check the blog world, and somebody will have done it.

[DanielB]

thanks for all the advice thus far everyone... its really great stuff.

as for dual monitors, how does it work exactly?

The iMac is availlable BTO with the 256mb version of the same card. The XT1600 is a capable card, just don't expect to run WOW at 1680x1050 with everything turned on full blast.

how much extra is it for the 256 version?:dunno


The iMac 20" is the one I would get if I could not get the new Intel powered tower.

i think i'd rather have 2 17" than sacrifice the extra cash for the 20....

[patch29]

as for dual monitors, how does it work exactly?


how much extra is it for the 256 version?:dunno



Apple's store (http://store.apple.com/) is very easy to see the options for the different models.

It looks like the upgrade is only $75, but only available on the 20".


The dual monitor's is easy to set up on a mac, just plug it in and use the control panel to adjust the settings. The menu bar will be on one monitor and the other will have what you put on it, photoshop palettes for example.

Mini-DVI output port with support for DVI, VGA, S-video, and composite video connections via adapter.

[DanielB]

Apple's store (http://store.apple.com/) is very easy to see the options for the different models.

It looks like the upgrade is only $75, but only available on the 20".

blast. :( that sets the price at 1,774... higher than my budget will allow, or i'd just have to save for another 4-5 months....


The dual monitor's is easy to set up on a mac, just plug it in and use the control panel to adjust the settings. The menu bar will be on one monitor and the other will have what you put on it, photoshop palettes for example.

Mini-DVI output port with support for DVI, VGA, S-video, and composite video connections via adapter.

could i use 1 monitor for playing a game with it pulled up and the other for say, chatting with friends at the same time? would the mouse just travel from one to the other?

[patch29]

blast. :( that sets the price at 1,774... higher than my budget will allow, or i'd just have to save for another 4-5 months....


could i use 1 monitor for playing a game with it pulled up and the other for say, chatting with friends at the same time? would the mouse just travel from one to the other?


Macmall has a $100 rebate. I am not sure if you can have a BTO option with them on the imac. I know at times they do have some BTO options that I have seen with the Powerbooks. If there were a question you could call them.

The mouse does move from one screen to another, but I don't know when you are using a game. I have never done that. If it were full screen that might not work well, but if it were in a full screen window it might. Does the mouse control the game? That might cause problems too. I don't play games, so I don't know. I am sure a gaming forum could answer that question easily, or even someone at forums.macrumors.com/

[DanielB]

The mouse does move from one screen to another, but I don't know when you are using a game. I have never done that. If it were full screen that might not work well, but if it were in a full screen window it might. Does the mouse control the game?

kinda, not really?:dunno lol depends how you have your settings. but i mainly play World of Warcraft and Medal of Honor: Allied Assault when i play games, sometimes Counter Strike.:gun2

[patch29]

kinda, not really?:dunno lol depends how you have your settings. but i mainly play World of Warcraft and Medal of Honor: Allied Assault when i play games, sometimes Counter Strike.:gun2


A gamer would be able to answer this much better. The closest I can think that would be similar would be watching a movie on one screen in full screen mode, if I click the mouse on the other screen it pulls the movie out of full screen mode and puts it in a window. I can maximize that window and move back and forth between screens, email/surfing on one, movie on the other in a window no problem. I would think you will get a similar result playing a game. Hopefully this helps. :dunno

[DanielB]

A gamer would be able to answer this much better. The closest I can think that would be similar would be watching a movie on one screen in full screen mode, if I click the mouse on the other screen it pulls the movie out of full screen mode and puts it in a window. I can maximize that window and move back and forth between screens, email/surfing on one, movie on the other in a window no problem. I would think you will get a similar result playing a game. Hopefully this helps. :dunno

sweet. thanks man:thumb if i ordered a 17" iMac and took it to an apple store would they be able to put in a 256 :dunno or no...

P.S.- doesn't apple have a student discount?

[Jamoke]

The iMac is availlable BTO with the 256mb version of the same card. The XT1600 is a capable card, just don't expect to run WOW at 1680x1050 with everything turned on full blast.

Why not? I do - Only problem I've run into is after 3 hours it seems to drop about every half hour. But if you turn on the VPU recovery program it glitches for like 5 seconds, and then jumps back - as it recovers. But that's after playing for 3 hours, and a restart of the machine fixes it. (MacBook Pro - Windows drivers 17" XT1600, at 1680x1050)

Kind of annoying - but definately managable. First 2-3 hours are problem free... Not that I ever play more than an hour without taking a break anyway right??? right? uh... or not.

[Jamoke]

could i use 1 monitor for playing a game with it pulled up and the other for say, chatting with friends at the same time? would the mouse just travel from one to the other?
Been there - (MacBook Pro - not iMac but it's the same) with two moniters. The game doesnt' allow you to jump screens in full screen gameplay mode. In any game, if you can window the game, and still chat (Most modern games) then you can use two monitors. On your gaming monitor, you just leave the game windowed, but taking up most of the screen - and on your secondary monitor you have whatever you want. So you just move the mouse over to what you need to be the active application, and presto chango - it's a true multitasking machine. But it doesn't work in most games if the game is set to full screen - cause there isn't a way to click outside the game. But in full screen mode you can still see the other monitor - just not select it, or switch programs...

I asked my local mac store about customizing the machine - they told me to order a better video card it would take 2 weeks for shipping (Worst case) and 1 week for install (Worst case) but if you know someone... i went to high school with the local guy at my store, and he usually can get me same day turn around on any hardware fixes.

student discount is 10% for most schools. (Roughly) I think they round to the nearest hundred or something...

[patch29]

P.S.- doesn't apple have a student discount?


You are right they do and you can check the discount here (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/routingpage.html).

[DanielB]

You are right they do and you can check the discount here (http://store.apple.com/Catalog/US/Images/routingpage.html).

shweet, that'd make a 17" iMac 1,199:D

[DanielB]

<snip>
I asked my local mac store about customizing the machine - they told me to order a better video card it would take 2 weeks for shipping (Worst case) and 1 week for install (Worst case)<snip>

did he say how much that'd cost?:dunno

[DanielB]

Been there - (MacBook Pro - not iMac but it's the same) with two moniters. The game doesnt' allow you to jump screens in full screen gameplay mode. In any game, if you can window the game, and still chat (Most modern games) then you can use two monitors. On your gaming monitor, you just leave the game windowed, but taking up most of the screen - and on your secondary monitor you have whatever you want. So you just move the mouse over to what you need to be the active application, and presto chango - it's a true multitasking machine. But it doesn't work in most games if the game is set to full screen - cause there isn't a way to click outside the game. But in full screen mode you can still see the other monitor - just not select it, or switch programs...

thanks man:thumb some useful info in there.

[DanielB]

so i'm done some thinking and being that i get a 10% student discount i've decided on either of these...


17" iMac 1.83GHz intel core duo 1 gig of RAM, 160gig Hard Drive, ATI Radeon 1600 128mb, etc... for 1,289

13" MacBook 2.0 GHz intel core duo 1 gig of RAM, 80gig Hard Drive, etc... for 1,334

so is the extra portability and .17GHz worth the loss of 80gigs on the hard drive, 4" of display and the $45 difference?:dunno

[DavidTO]

so is the extra portability and .17GHz worth the loss of 80gigs on the hard drive, 4" of display and the $45 difference?:dunno


The only things that matter, IMO are the portability vs. the larger screen.

You can always get a little portable self-powered drive, the ghz difference is nothing, and $45 is a nice dinner, but when you're investing in something like this, it's really nothing.

You need to weigh the two. You will find the 13" display confining. You will also find being chained to your desk confining. Decide.

[W.W. Webster]

so i'm done some thinkingHave you budgeted for an external disk drive for backup? It should be something you have and use from day one, not added later (which might be too late).

[DanielB]

The only things that matter, IMO are the portability vs. the larger screen.

You can always get a little portable self-powered drive, the ghz difference is nothing, and $45 is a nice dinner, but when you're investing in something like this, it's really nothing.

You need to weigh the two. You will find the 13" display confining. You will also find being chained to your desk confining. Decide.

well i already have the 17" flatscreen CRT... so its portability with 13" and 17" vs. 17" and 17"....:dunno

also i'm thinking that if i can take my laptop to school next year it'd be great cause i can just put my photos and such on that and take them back and forth... cause our school only has 15 iBooks and 45 Journalism/Photojournalism/yearbook kids to rent them to.

[DavidTO]

Oh, well then, get the MacBook.

[DanielB]

Oh, well then, get the MacBook.

but its also got 30 G5's, with thirty 20" mac monitors:rolleyes

oh, 2 HP's, and 3 G3's:D

[DavidTO]

well i already have the 17" flatscreen CRT... so its portability with 13" and 17" vs. 17" and 17"....:dunno


I was referring to this part of your post.

[DanielB]

I was referring to this part of your post.

ah:thumb

[DanielB]

ah:thumb

ahhh i know how much i'll need the portablility but i also know how much i'll need the dual 17":rolleyes i can't make up my minddd.

[DanielB]

okay, so this is making my decision easier. while i was gone at a camp for 10 days my computer screwed up. we got everything we needed off my Hard drive like all my photos, we went out and bought a new Hard Drive, this ones a Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM, :clap and then because my parents want to build a new one for them we bought me a new ATI Radeon X1300 256mb:wink and we're putting my older 128 in their computer. so that takes care of all my gaming stuff. so it looks like the laptop i'll be getting will be strictly photoshop and uploading and storing all my photos. which will significantly increase the speed of my computer since i have about 30 gigs of photos so far. now its what laptop to get. obviously i'll want about a gig of RAM just to help it speed up Photoshop

heres the 2 i'm thinking of:

a 1.83ghz 13" macbook with 1gig of RAM and a 120gig Hard drive= 1364

a 2ghz 15.4" macbook pro with 1gig of RAM and an 80gig hard Drive, since i could always get an external Hard Drive = 1889

so is the $525 really worth the 2.4" and loss of 40gigs in Hard Drive? or is there another reason i'm missing why to go with the Macbook Pro as opposed to the Macbook.:dunno

thanks guys,
Daniel

[DavidTO]

Daniel,

Can you wait? No promises, but I don't see the MacBook/Pro line-up staying as it is for long. The specs are too close, and Intel is supposed to have a 64 bit chip coming out in a month or two, followed closely by new MBP's IMO.

As for what there is right now...I'm not sure that you could rationally say that the MBP is worth the extra dough, but I would get it over the MB. The screen size will help with processing images, the case is nicer, IMO, you get some other nice goodies like the ambient light sensor and backlit keyboard, and the graphics card doesn't share the main RAM as in the MB.

So much depends on you and your perspective. I mean, for the price difference you could get a cheap PC lappy, so it's not some small chump-change. But for me, I would get the MBP.

[bwg]

okay, so this is making my decision easier. while i was gone at a camp for 10 days my computer screwed up. we got everything we needed off my Hard drive like all my photos, we went out and bought a new Hard Drive, this ones a Western Digital 160GB 7200RPM, :clap and then because my parents want to build a new one for them we bought me a new ATI Radeon X1300 256mb:wink and we're putting my older 128 in their computer. so that takes care of all my gaming stuff. so it looks like the laptop i'll be getting will be strictly photoshop and uploading and storing all my photos. which will significantly increase the speed of my computer since i have about 30 gigs of photos so far. now its what laptop to get. obviously i'll want about a gig of RAM just to help it speed up Photoshop

heres the 2 i'm thinking of:

a 1.83ghz 13" macbook with 1gig of RAM and a 120gig Hard drive= 1364

a 2ghz 15.4" macbook pro with 1gig of RAM and an 80gig hard Drive, since i could always get an external Hard Drive = 1889

so is the $525 really worth the 2.4" and loss of 40gigs in Hard Drive? or is there another reason i'm missing why to go with the Macbook Pro as opposed to the Macbook.:dunno

thanks guys,
Danielyou said your laptop will be your photoshop machine? get the pro. the pro has dedicated graphics while the regular macbook shares system memory.

[DanielB]

Daniel,

Can you wait? No promises, but I don't see the MacBook/Pro line-up staying as it is for long. The specs are too close, and Intel is supposed to have a 64 bit chip coming out in a month or two, followed closely by new MBP's IMO.

As for what there is right now...I'm not sure that you could rationally say that the MBP is worth the extra dough, but I would get it over the MB. The screen size will help with processing images, the case is nicer, IMO, you get some other nice goodies like the ambient light sensor and backlit keyboard, and the graphics card doesn't share the main RAM as in the MB.

So much depends on you and your perspective. I mean, for the price difference you could get a cheap PC lappy, so it's not some small chump-change. But for me, I would get the MBP.

i see, oh yeah i can wait. lol i've waited this long. i'm gonna need it by the end of august of begining of september though cause thats right around when school starts and Photojournalism will kick in. so what your saying is the MBP just has alot nicer build quality and screen and ascetics? so whats the technical standpoint behind the two. and if i added more RAM on the MBP without sending it to apple wouldn't that void the warranty?

what do you think would change due to Intel's 64 bit chip? isn't that what the Intel core duo chip is? how would it affect the MBP besides upping some of the specs. and the price tags:dunno

[DavidTO]

i see, oh yeah i can wait. lol i've waited this long. i'm gonna need it by the end of august of begining of september though cause thats right around when school starts and Photojournalism will kick in. so what your saying is the MBP just has alot nicer build quality and screen and scetics? so whats the technical standpoint behind the two. and if i added more RAM on the MBP without sending it to apple wouldn't that void the warranty?what do you think would change due to Intel's 64 bit chip? isn't that what the Intel core duo chip is? how would it affect the MBP besides upping some of the specs. and the price tags:dunno


No, you can add RAM all you want without voiding the warranty. But the current MBP only allows up to 2gigs. A 64bit machine allows more, because the system can address more.

I buy my RAM at crucial.com, and install myself. Easy peasy. Well, one hard push is all it takes, but the rest is peasy. :D

[DanielB]

No, you can add RAM all you want without voiding the warranty. But the current MBP only allows up to 2gigs. A 64bit machine allows more, because the system can address more.

I buy my RAM at crucial.com, and install myself. Easy peasy. Well, one hard push is all it takes, but the rest is peasy. :D

is there more need than 2 gigs? i've heard macs handle photoshop slow but 1 gig should speed it up shouldnt it?

:nod my dad always gets nervous when i build computers and i can just pop in the Processor or the RAM. on most laptops i know of though if you modify it in anyway then they void the warranty. same idea with reformatting your computer.:dunno

[DavidTO]

is there more need than 2 gigs? i've heard macs handle photoshop slow but 1 gig should speed it up shouldnt it?

:nod my dad always gets nervous when i build computers and i can just pop in the Processor or the RAM. on most laptops i know of though if you modify it in anyway then they void the warranty. same idea with reformatting your computer.:dunno


Right now the MacIntels are running PS through emulation called Rosetta. When Adobe releases CS3, it will run natively. So in the meantime, you're taking a performance hit. 1 gig is an absolute minimum, IMO. And if you're running PS, anything to avoid using the disk cache is a good thing, so more RAM is good.

Read this (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13946) and page 84 of this PDF (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_Pro_Users_Guide.pdf).

[DanielB]

Right now the MacIntels are running PS through emulation called Rosetta. When Adobe releases CS3, it will run natively. So in the meantime, you're taking a performance hit. 1 gig is an absolute minimum, IMO. And if you're running PS, anything to avoid using the disk cache is a good thing, so more RAM is good.

Read this (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13946) and page 84 of this PDF (http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/MacBook_Pro_Users_Guide.pdf).

thanks, i was talking to my brother about all this and stuff but i'm wondering how long would i need to wait before the new Macbook Pro came out, and how much a preformance/price difference do you think there will be. could i survive after all the new advances that are going to be coming out with an outdated Macbook Pro? :dunno can't remember but something he said in like 4 weeks is going to be a new 64bit chip coming out and the Intel Core Duo is going to be slowwwwww compared to it. so should i wait until after this is released and apple comes out with their new motherboard to support the new chip so i can get a faster more efficient MBP or should i take the hit later on when everything will run slow on a current version of the MBP.

[DavidTO]

I would wait until, if possible. Seems like you're in no rush, so what's the harm? There's always something new, and you can always argue for waiting, so I usually ignore that and would just buy when I want. But I think in this case it's warranted. I believe that the chip coming out is what Apple originally wanted to put in the MBP, and just couldn't wait for. But yeah, I've heard July/August for the chip, so September for the new MBP is not unreasonable, IMO.

[DanielB]

I would wait until, if possible. Seems like you're in no rush, so what's the harm? There's always something new, and you can always argue for waiting, so I usually ignore that and would just buy when I want. But I think in this case it's warranted. I believe that the chip coming out is what Apple originally wanted to put in the MBP, and just couldn't wait for. But yeah, I've heard July/August for the chip, so September for the new MBP is not unreasonable, IMO.

:nod but do you think there will be a big price difference? and if so will it justify it?

[DavidTO]

Apple doesn't change the price points much. They just change up the features. you're gonna have a MBP at around 2k, 2.5k and 2.7-3k.

Daniel, I don't *know* any of this. It's all rumor and who knows what Apple's really gonna do. I have no idea how much you have to spend, etc, but you'll be fine with a current MBP. Just fine.

[knight777]

Apple doesn't change the price points much. They just change up the features. you're gonna have a MBP at around 2k, 2.5k and 2.7-3k.

Daniel, I don't *know* any of this. It's all rumor and who knows what Apple's really gonna do. I have no idea how much you have to spend, etc, but you'll be fine with a current MBP. Just fine.

If you can, hold out until the next mac conference in early July. Usually rumors are confirmed or dispelled during a conference.

I'm holding off an on a Macbook Pro until the fall since I really don't need it until then.

[CatOne]

If you can, hold out until the next mac conference in early July. Usually rumors are confirmed or dispelled during a conference.

I'm holding off an on a Macbook Pro until the fall since I really don't need it until then.

It's the worldwide developers conference August 7-11.

[DanielB]

the PC is looking apealling again:uhoh ..... i could get this for 1155 because my brother has a 30% off coupon for dell and he could use his college student discount too

Dell 17" Inspiron E1705
2GHz/667MHz FSB Intel Core Duo Processor
17" UltraSharp Wide Screen
2GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz
100GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
256MB NVIDIA® GeForce™ Go 7900 GS
and a 4 year accidental Damage plan for the entire computer

look at that and tell me that doesn't sound like it'd give an apple a run for its money as far as hardware goes...:rolleyes

[wxwax]

Of course it would, that's an excellent price.

[DanielB]

Of course it would, that's an excellent price.

:nod that was my response...

[wxwax]

:nod that was my response...
Looks like you should change the thread title to "I thought I wanted a Mac.."


:lol3

[DanielB]

Looks like you should change the thread title to "I thought I wanted a Mac.."


:lol3
:nah still determined to get a mac, but its good to know i can have a good PC laptop lined up in case the mac idea falls through with the parentals.:thumb

Macs got a Refurb 15.4" MBP 1.83GHz Intel core Duo
667MHz frontside bus
512MB (single SO-DIMM) 667MHz DDR2 SDRAM
80GB 5400rpm Serial ATA hard drive
Slot-load SuperDrive (DVD±RW/CD-RW)
ATI Mobility Radeon X1600 with 128MB GDDR3 memory

for 1549 :deal

[W.W. Webster]

still determined to get a macThe risk is that you will get confused between price and value. Whatever the specs, a Ford will always be a Ford.