'smugmug gradient' = new default SmugMug look & feel

[onethumb]

We're planning on making the 'smugmug gradient' theme our new default look & feel after:

A) we get feedback. Is it good? Do you like it? Have suggestions?

and

B) does it work with your customization? Jimmy probably has some suggestions for small changes (background = none on some places) to get rid of the gradients in your customization.

So if you've got complaints, suggestions, kudos, etc... here's the place. :)

You can see an example at http://themes.smugmug.com

Don

[dmc]

I like the all black background I have now.... My galleries are using "default" theme... when you make gradient the default, does this mean I have to go to each of my 170 galleries, one at a time, to set the theme to something else to keep the same look? :dunno

BTW - gradient doesn't look good on my laptop, the gray to black is choppy, not what I would call "gradient" (I know the problem is my laptop:wink )

[onethumb]

I like the all black background I have now.... My galleries are using "default" theme... when you make gradient the default, does this mean I have to go to each of my 170 galleries, one at a time, to set the theme to something else to keep the same look? :dunno

BTW - gradient doesn't look good on my laptop, the gray to black is choppy, not what I would call "gradient" (I know the problem is my laptop:wink )

Sounds like your laptop is set to 16-bit color (or worse). Set it to "true color" (32-bit or "16 million colors") and you should be all set.

Don

[Andy]

I like the all black background I have now.... My galleries are using "default" theme... when you make gradient the default, does this mean I have to go to each of my 170 galleries, one at a time, to set the theme to something else to keep the same look? :dunno

BTW - gradient doesn't look good on my laptop, the gray to black is choppy, not what I would call "gradient" (I know the problem is my laptop:wink )

Hi dmc, you can make "default" your own theme, called DMC-Default, and then apply it as a sitewide theme on your own site. Or, if you already have your own theme going you can add default to your existing theme.

We'll help if you need it :deal

[DavidTO]

I like it!

[rich56k]

We're planning on making the 'smugmug gradient' theme our new default look & feel after:

A) we get feedback. Is it good? Do you like it? Have suggestions?

and

B) does it work with your customization? Jimmy probably has some suggestions for small changes (background = none on some places) to get rid of the gradients in your customization.

So if you've got complaints, suggestions, kudos, etc... here's the place. :)

Don
Don,
I agree with dmc...

Its already an option, why not leave well enough alone, those that want can choose it (what is the reason to force a new default on us?)

What result will it have on journal style pages if I've removed the lines - will it be forced to add them back in?

Please don't suprise the pro acct holders, causing us to make changes just to maintain the look / feel we've already spent time to create...I recall this happening last year (once- mid August)...the result seemed to be quite a lot of energy spent by "help@SM" and repeated over and over on the forum.
I have the highest regard for the current state-of-affairs here, the features, the Dgrin crew of Pros, the obvious passion shown by the majority
of all involved here at Smugmug.
Just the fact you're soliciting comment is great, please continue to make / keep Smugmug headed in the direction it has been !!
Thanks again,
rich
http://rich56k.smugmug.com
PS: Don't interpret this as against innovation and upward progress...Its just
the method of implementing them sometimes is not condusive to a professional enviornment - when we're forced to make changes/corrections on short notice...

ADDED@ 11:30pm-Maybe an email to ALL pro-acct holders asking these same questions may be an idea?
just a thought....
rich

[joffun]

We're planning on making the 'smugmug gradient' theme our new default look & feel after:

A) we get feedback. Is it good? Do you like it? Have suggestions?

and

B) does it work with your customization? Jimmy probably has some suggestions for small changes (background = none on some places) to get rid of the gradients in your customization.

So if you've got complaints, suggestions, kudos, etc... here's the place. :)

Don

I have applied the gradient theme to one of my galleries here: http://shimmerimages.smugmug.com/gallery/391054

Is this the way it should look? It may be that it doesn't work very well with my customisation, but either way it changes the look of my site significantly so I would be opposed to a change to make this the default setting. If you do make the change, can I still keep my 'look'? You can see how it should look in the other galleries on my site such as http://shimmerimages.smugmug.com/gallery/867064

Thanks

[Cindy]

We're planning on making the 'smugmug gradient' theme our new default look & feel after:

A) we get feedback. Is it good? Do you like it? Have suggestions?

and

B) does it work with your customization? Jimmy probably has some suggestions for small changes (background = none on some places) to get rid of the gradients in your customization.

So if you've got complaints, suggestions, kudos, etc... here's the place. :)

Don

Please don't change the default. I like default the way it is now... exspecailly since I've customised my site to work with the default black. When I preview gradiant most of what I've done gets borked -icky. What customizing I have done I don't recall how I did most of it. I don't do this stuff everyday but rather do it once and forget it so trying to run change everything would be a nightmare.

That said... yes the gradiant is cool, looks good, etc... just not on my site.
Sorry I can't be happier about the change for ya.

[dem]

I like it.

[Mike Lane]

Cindy, Joffun, rick56k, and others who are worried that it will mess with your customizations...

The thing about the themes is that they are last in the order of CSS that your browser uses. That's a very important distinction. Right now your customizations are overruling the smugmugBlack css file. If you set a theme, any theme, it will override your customizations. But if Smugmug sets that theme to be a replacement for smugmugBlack, your customizations will easily override it just as they do for smugmugBlack currently.

What I'm saying is, don't let the fact that the new theme breaks your site when it's set as a theme make you not want it implemented at all. There may be small things that we have to fix (like :thumb said earlier, we'll probably have to set background:none or transparent in places for example) but it won't break your overall customizations.

And rich, take this thread as the result of the education that Smugmug got from the changes you were talking about. They listened to their customers and they're reaching for feedback before they implement something that will affect your site. C'est bon no?

My feeling is that I like it. It is fresh and the gradients are so web2.0 :wink :lol3 :D

[Cameron]

I like the theme, however, I noticed a difference in how my header appears with each. With the current default, my header has a small space between the header image and the top of the browser window. When I change to the new theme my header image is flush against the top of the window. Likely a coding error on my part, but I'm still confused. Anyone? This occurs in both IE and Firefox.
http://swinton.smugmug.com
Otherwise, I think it is a nice look!

[Mike Lane]

I like the theme, however, I noticed a difference in how my header appears with each. With the current default, my header has a small space between the header image and the top of the browser window. When I change to the new theme my header image is flush against the top of the window. Likely a coding error on my part, but I'm still confused. Anyone? This occurs in both IE and Firefox.
http://swinton.smugmug.com
Otherwise, I think it is a nice look!

That'll be an easy fix, no worries.

[Andy]

Check out Marc Adamus' Site (http://wildphoto.smugmug.com/)

Mmmmmmm tasty.

[rich56k]

Cindy, Joffun, rick56k, and others who are worried that it will mess with your customizations...

The thing about the themes is that they are last in the order of CSS that your browser uses. That's a very important distinction. Right now your customizations are overruling the smugmugBlack css file. If you set a theme, any theme, it will override your customizations. But if Smugmug sets that theme to be a replacement for smugmugBlack, your customizations will easily override it just as they do for smugmugBlack currently.

What I'm saying is, don't let the fact that the new theme breaks your site when it's set as a theme make you not want it implemented at all. There may be small things that we have to fix (like :thumb said earlier, we'll probably have to set background:none or transparent in places for example) but it won't break your overall customizations.

And rich, take this thread as the result of the education that Smugmug got from the changes you were talking about. They listened to their customers and they're reaching for feedback before they implement something that will affect your site. C'est bon no?

My feeling is that I like it. It is fresh and the gradients are so web2.0 :wink :lol3 :D Mike,
Thanks for the informative / level-headed / honest reply .....
I've actually now got it on my journal style page and don't have a big problem with it at all. It will probobly stay on this page perm http://rich56k.smugmug.com/gallery/1271860
That being said i don't know the # of accts here on Smugmug but I'd be willing to bet its a small percentage of them that stay up with the forum...
This translates to a whole lot of work for you and the Dgrin crew Pros once any change goes into effect that will inevitably catch folks by suprise....
I stand by my suggestion of emailing (at least the pro accts) well in advance both for feedback and with advance notice of change time/date - hopefully with the 'fix' included up front!?!)
Again if I didn't truly have passion for what i do and LOVE SMUGMUG for what it is and more importantly what i believe it has the potential to help me become - i wouldn't spend the time to post --
Thanks Again for the opportunity to be heard,
rich
Racing starts in 14 days... any timetable for this yet?
PS: marcs site per ANDY -- WOW!!!

[geanmichaels]

Lemme see, all my black defaults change to gradient, if default is changed to gradient? Right? Or am I missing something?

Leave it alone. I don't have time or energy to go back and reset them all. + I don't like it that much.
Thanks.

[Andy]

Lemme see, all my black defaults change to gradient, if default is changed to gradient? Right? Or am I missing something?

Leave it alone. I don't have time or energy to go back and reset them all. + I don't like it that much.
Thanks.

You've got "SmugMug Classic" set as your default theme for all galleries - you wouldn't be affected :D

[geanmichaels]

You've got "SmugMug Classic" set as your default theme for all galleries - you wouldn't be affected :D

Cool... thanks. (My learning curve is about as steep as a space shuttle launch vector... and I don't catch on quickly anymore.):thumb

[brandofamily]

We're planning on making the 'smugmug gradient' theme our new default look & feel after:

A) we get feedback. Is it good? Do you like it? Have suggestions?

and

B) does it work with your customization? Jimmy probably has some suggestions for small changes (background = none on some places) to get rid of the gradients in your customization.

So if you've got complaints, suggestions, kudos, etc... here's the place. :)

Don

I understand the need/want for a "new" look. But is there a reason that the gradient can not just be added as a new theme? Maybe I missed that in the thread.
I know the change should not effect me. As I'm using the Earth theme, or my friends account which I manage, since she has a customized background. But It seems many other will wake up one morning to find their site is not what they had in mind. Although Andy stated it would be an easy fix it's still a fix that some may not want to have to deal with.
That's just my 2 cents.

[kwalsh]

Meh... At least it's neutral. Not a huge fan, but if you make it easy for me to keep the old black across my site I can't think of a big reason to object. I've got minimal customization at the moment.

Ken

[spider-t]

We're planning on making the 'smugmug gradient' theme our new default look & feel after:

A) we get feedback. Is it good? Do you like it? Have suggestions?

and

B) does it work with your customization? Jimmy probably has some suggestions for small changes (background = none on some places) to get rid of the gradients in your customization.

So if you've got complaints, suggestions, kudos, etc... here's the place. :)

Don
I love you guys, I really really do.

But I get tired of having to search around dgrin for how to un-do the latest unexpected change. I have to go back into my site to make it look the way I had set it up before the last set of changes.

But it's not just my site. I've set up a bunch of friends with customized sites too. Whenever I go fix my site, I have to go in and fix their sites too. I would have NEVER taken on their customizations too if I knew what a moving target smugmug was going to be.

I get no notice that I have to do this work. I just show up at my site and it looks wrong in a new way. It's always a surprise. And a surprise of unexpected extra work is my least favorite surprise.

But it might just be me.

I am not really using my site as a photo sharing community site. As a pro user, I like to pretend I have just a regular old site. You know what I mean? Something a little more professional. Without all the colors and thumbs and stuff.

So that's my $.02

thanks,
Trish

[steveL]

When using my Opera browser (8.54), left clicking on an image in my galleries doesn't open up a new window with the image; instead just the very top of the image appears at the bottom of my screen like it is in a separate frame.

I have tried other people's galleries and they seem to work like you would expect-- a new window with the image in it (not full screen just a small window). I can't figure it out. Any ideas?

When using IE6, I can't see how to change the view from filmstrip to smugmug. I was changing over to the gradient theme the other night and now I have Opera showing galleries in smugmug view while IE shows them in filmstrip view. I think I would like to have smugmug view on all galleries in both browsers or at least be able to change them but I can't see where to do that.

Also, when using Opera the thumbs up or thumbs down doesn't display correctly. I just see a box with the help link in it. I thought that worked OK a few days ago though. Thumbs up or down works fine in IE6.

update: Just thought to delete cookies in IE and that got rid of the filmstrip view and it's now smugmug view. I just am now confused about where to set that, I thought it was viewer controlled.

My gallery:
http://steveandbecky.smugmug.com/

-Steve

[Andy]

When using my Opera browser (8.54), left clicking on an image in my galleries doesn't open up a new window with the image; instead just the very top of the image appears at the bottom of my screen like it is in a separate frame.

I have tried other people's galleries and they seem to work like you would expect-- a new window with the image in it (not full screen just a small window). I can't figure it out. Any ideas?
Are you talking about LightBox? If so, I can validate that it's working on Opera 8.54, just fine on your site, here:
http://steveandbecky.smugmug.com/gallery/1056508/1/52959001
If your talking about something else, please be more specific and give a gallery/photo link so I can help you :D


When using IE6, I can't see how to change the view from filmstrip to smugmug. I was changing over to the gradient theme the other night and now I have Opera showing galleries in smugmug view while IE shows them in filmstrip view. I think I would like to have smugmug view on all galleries in both browsers or at least be able to change them but I can't see where to do that.

So you have some galleries forced to styles
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?p=287001&posted=1#post287001
You can set this in Customize Gallery. If you want viewers choice, select that in the dropdown on the customization menu. We remember your last style, via a cookie.

Also, when using Opera the thumbs up or thumbs down doesn't display correctly. I just see a box with the help link in it. I thought that worked OK a few days ago though. Thumbs up or down works fine in IE6.
Try deleting all temp files and starting again - I'm getting thumbs just fine.

Hope this helps!

[Mike Lane]

Just goes to show you that Opera is teh sux0r0z. Version 9 is better but not by a lot. Try firefox :wink

[bwg]

Are you talking about LightBox? If so, I can validate that it's working on Opera 8.54, just fine on your site, here:
http://steveandbecky.smugmug.com/gallery/1056508/1/52959001
If your talking about something else, please be more specific and give a gallery/photo link so I can help you :D
lightbox in opera 8.54 does not work for me

winXP sp2

[Sheaf]

So that's my $.02

thanks,
Trish
Trish, we completely understand and apologize for presenting a 'moving target.' For that reason, we left popular photos off customized pages as a default while leaving it on for other pages since the feature would have been overlooked by so many people otherwise.

We try very, very hard not to break customized pages when we release a new feature. If the smugmug gradient ever became default, it would basically just make the plain grey boxes into gradient boxes for people that use the default style. It would hopefully not be a page-breaking change.

Regardless, we're still throwing the idea around.

[Andy]

lightbox in opera 8.54 does not work for me

winXP sp2

AHhhh I was using Mac.

Regardless - Our officially supported browsers are FF(Win and Mac), Safari, and IE.

[spider-t]

Trish, we completely understand and apologize for presenting a 'moving target.' For that reason, we left popular photos off customized pages as a default while leaving it on for other pages since the feature would have been overlooked by so many people otherwise.

We try very, very hard not to break customized pages when we release a new feature. If the smugmug gradient ever became default, it would basically just make the plain grey boxes into gradient boxes for people that use the default style. It would hopefully not be a page-breaking change.

Regardless, we're still throwing the idea around.
None of the changes have been "page-breakers" for me. They have all been stylistic changes that I would not have chosen. And while some folks may not care so much about stylistic changes, I'm fussy. So I have to un-do them all. And again, it's not just on my site, but the 9 others I've customized for other people.

Is there a single style I can change all my galleries to that is more stable than 'default'? And if so, is there a way to make that change globally?

It's interesting that you say you left popular photos off customized pages as a default. Because the those red & green thumbs showed up on my images. What constitutes a customized page? I have lots of customizations.

thanks!
Trish

[Andy]

It's interesting that you say you left popular photos off customized pages as a default. Because the those red & green thumbs showed up on my images. What constitutes a customized page? I have lots of customizations.

thanks!
Trish

We left off the /popular gallery from showing on your homepage. That started life for you, in your control panel, because you've customized. And, we gave you several ways to turn off photorank. Though I'm not sure why - as two of your photos were on the most popular list first two pages a few days back. Great way to draw more people to our fine work :evil

[Sheaf]

Is there a single style I can change all my galleries to that is more stable than 'default'? And if so, is there a way to make that change globally?
I am actually quite terrible at customization myself, so maybe this question would be better handled by someone else. But it seems to me that you should either create a specific theme in your control panel and apply that to your whole site or set one like smugmug classic (which is unlikely to change as much as the "default") and customize it how you want it. *shrug*

I'm sure Andy or myself would be more than willing to help you out.

[Andy]

Is there a single style I can change all my galleries to that is more stable than 'default'? And if so, is there a way to make that change globally?

Hi Trish

I just put all of your customization on my demo site, it's such a non-issue - you can just choose "smugmug classic" as your base theme, and your customizations will go on top of that.

You should just try it now, and see :) If you want some help, just holler. You know where to find me...

[steveL]

AHhhh I was using Mac.

Regardless - Our officially supported browsers are FF(Win and Mac), Safari, and IE.

OK, I didn't know that. No problem. I was talking about lightbox btw (couldn't think what it was called).

I think I like this theme just fine. Do my galleries look OK? Everything seems to work OK and I think it looks nice. I don't know enough to make my own customization so I am happy with the gradient theme for now.

I don't have any temp files (I think).

Thanks

[Andy]

OK, I didn't know that. No problem. I was talking about lightbox btw (couldn't think what it was called).

I think I like this theme just fine. Do my galleries look OK? Everything seems to work OK and I think it looks nice. I don't know enough to make my own customization so I am happy with the gradient theme for now.

I don't have any temp files (I think).

Thanks

They look great :)

[cmason]

A) we get feedback. Is it good? Do you like it? Have suggestions?



I like :thumb

[spider-t]

We left off the /popular gallery from showing on your homepage. That started life for you, in your control panel, because you've customized. And, we gave you several ways to turn off photorank. Though I'm not sure why - as two of your photos were on the most popular list first two pages a few days back. Great way to draw more people to our fine work :evil
OK, I get it. Thanks. The popular gallery is something else.

And I was thrilled, Andy, to have my photos be on the most popular page. Really I was.

I'm so torn by this whole thing. I DO want to be a part of the whole smugmug community. But then I can't have the gallery curators viewing my portfolio wondering what those thumbs are. Or people who's portraits I've taken wondering if I am asking strangers to rate them personally. Or corporations who need headshots coming to my site and thinking I am not a serious photographer because it looks like I'm running a photo ranking game.

My answer is I just need to create another site. A stuffy, simple professional site. Then I can be a looser with my smugmug site. Once I create a business site, I will be able to turn all the fun stuff back on and call smugmug my personal site.

I like what you guys are doing. I really do. I hate missing out on the fun. I've resigned to the notion that I'm just trying to make smugmug something it isn't.

Thanks for testing out my customizations, Andy. Is there a way to set my theme to "smugmug classic" on all my galleries without having to go into every one of my galleries and set it manually? Is there a global change somewhere? Or maybe a code hack?

thanks!
Trish

[Andy]

OK, I get it. Thanks. The popular gallery is something else.

And I was thrilled, Andy, to have my photos be on the most popular page. Really I was.

I'm so torn by this whole thing. I DO want to be a part of the whole smugmug community. But then I can't have the gallery curators viewing my portfolio wondering what those thumbs are. Or people who's portraits I've taken wondering if I am asking strangers to rate them personally. Or corporations who need headshots coming to my site and thinking I am not a serious photographer because it looks like I'm running a photo ranking game.

My answer is I just need to create another site. A stuffy, simple professional site. Then I can be a looser with my smugmug site. Once I create a business site, I will be able to turn all the fun stuff back on and call smugmug my personal site.

I like what you guys are doing. I really do. I hate missing out on the fun. I've resigned to the notion that I'm just trying to make smugmug something it isn't.

Thanks for testing out my customizations, Andy. Is there a way to set my theme to "smugmug classic" on all my galleries without having to go into every one of my galleries and set it manually? Is there a global change somewhere? Or maybe a code hack?

thanks!
Trish

Trish - for exposure's sake, you should make a "portfolio gallery," put in representative best work, keyword the hell out of it, make it public, allow thumbs, and enjoy the goodness. You *can* have it both ways y'know :D

Theme: Yes - go to control panel>organize&customize>all pages theme>and choose "smugmug classic"

Now look around your site. You can easily change back, btw.

[spider-t]

Trish - for exposure's sake, you should make a "portfolio gallery," put in representative best work, keyword the hell out of it, make it public, allow thumbs, and enjoy the goodness. You *can* have it both ways y'know :D

Theme: Yes - go to control panel>organize&customize>all pages theme>and choose "smugmug classic"

Now look around your site. You can easily change back, btw.

Thanks Andy. Changing to "classic" was easy. I knew there had to be a way.

Maybe I will set up a smugmug rate-em portfolio gallery. That's a good idea. When you say "allow thumbs" what is that?

thanks,
Trish

[Andy]

Thanks Andy. Changing to "classic" was easy. I knew there had to be a way.

Maybe I will set up a smugmug rate-em portfolio gallery. That's a good idea. When you say "allow thumbs" what is that?

thanks,
Trish

Well
The trick now is

you can bar thumbs from your whole site with the javascript thing - as you've done

or

you enable / disable by gallery customization settings.

[spider-t]

Well
The trick now is

you can bar thumbs from your whole site with the javascript thing - as you've done

or

you enable / disable by gallery customization settings.
Hi Andy,

Pesty here.

It turns out changing to 'smugmug classic' did effect some changes from the 'default' theme. Mosly in the Journal pages where I have some HTML in my captions. All my bold stuff turned blue, and I also get these thick white lines between each of my images.

You can see it on these pages:
http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/384050
http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/1090220
http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/384508

I set them back to default for now. But you'll see the changes if you set them to smugmug classic.

Maybe someone could suggest some CSS to fix those?

thanks!
Trish

[Andy]

Hi Andy,

Pesty here.

It turns out changing to 'smugmug classic' did effect some changes from the 'default' theme. Mosly in the Journal pages where I have some HTML in my captions. All my bold stuff turned blue, and I also get these thick white lines between each of my images.

You can see it on these pages:
http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/384050
http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/1090220
http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/384508

I set them back to default for now. But you'll see the changes if you set them to smugmug classic.

Maybe someone could suggest some CSS to fix those?

thanks!
Trish



#journal .title {
color: #99ccff;
}


.journal_entry {
border-bottom: 1px dashed #fff !important;
}

if you wanted dashed lines, that is.

OK?

[spider-t]

#journal .title {
color: #99ccff;
}


.journal_entry {
border-bottom: 1px dashed #fff !important;
}

if you wanted dashed lines, that is.

OK?
Not quite. The bold text is still blue. And by bold, I mean the stuff between <b></b>'s in the caption.

No text should be blue in this example set to 'smugmug classic':
http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/1090220

Also, the 'smugmug classic' theme displays differently in Firefox and Internet Explorer. More text turned blue in IE. And if I don't have the new border-bottom code in, IE has a pleasing solid thin grey line after each image while Firefox has a distracting thick white line.

I would be happiest with that solid thin grey line in all browsers. But if it's safer to go with the dashed lines (safe as in I know it will display right in all browsers) I'll stick with that.

thanks!!
Trish

[Mike Lane]

A few things about your xhtml first:

1) This:<LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="http://trishtunney.smugmug.com/photos/45579796-L.jpg">
<LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="http://www.spider-t.com/favicon.ico">
does not belong in your header html. You need to put that in your head tag box.

2)In your caption you have this:<b> <big>Trish Tunney </big>
<br> 3128 21st Street
<br> San Francisco, CA 94110
<br> (415) 695-1901<br> <br><br> <a href=mailto:trish_tunney@yahoo.com?subject=TrishTu nney_Photography class="ttheader">info@trishtunney.com</a><br>
<br>

<br>




<form method=post action=http://www.ymlp.com/subscribe.php?trishtunney>
<table border=0>
<tr>
<td colspan=2>Fill out your e-mail address to receive <br> notice of upcoming shows:</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="151"><input type="text" name="YMLP0" size="28"></td>
<td width="57"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan=2>
<input type="radio" name="action" value="subscribe" checked> Subscribe <input type="radio" name="action" value="unsubscribe"> Unsubscribe </td>
</tr>
</table>
</form>

</div>

That first red <b> tag does not have a corresponding </b> which I think is causing your .journal_entry bottom border to be bolded. This is an example of why I don't like the !important tag. In this case it was able to mask a problem in the html.

Also there's no need to use a <big> tag. We can adjust your font size with CSS.

Now on to your questions.

Not quite. The bold text is still blue. And by bold, I mean the stuff between <b></b>'s in the caption.

No text should be blue in this example set to 'smugmug classic':
http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/1090220
this:

.caption b {color:#f00;}

turns them red. Adjust the color to whatever you want.

Also, the 'smugmug classic' theme displays differently in Firefox and Internet Explorer. More text turned blue in IE. And if I don't have the new border-bottom code in, IE has a pleasing solid thin grey line after each image while Firefox has a distracting thick white line.

I would be happiest with that solid thin grey line in all browsers. But if it's safer to go with the dashed lines (safe as in I know it will display right in all browsers) I'll stick with that.

thanks!!
Trish

Again, this is due to an unclosed <b> tag I'm pretty sure. Close that tag and then we'll move on.

[spider-t]

A few things about your xhtml first:

1) This:<LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="http://trishtunney.smugmug.com/photos/45579796-L.jpg">
<LINK REL="SHORTCUT ICON" HREF="http://www.spider-t.com/favicon.ico">
does not belong in your header html. You need to put that in your head tag box.

2)In your caption you have this:<b> <big>Trish Tunney </big>
<br> 3128 21st Street
<br> San Francisco, CA 94110
<br> (415) 695-1901<br> <br><br> <a href=mailto:trish_tunney@yahoo.com?subject=TrishTu nney_Photography class="ttheader">info@trishtunney.com</a><br>
<br>

<br>




<form method=post action=http://www.ymlp.com/subscribe.php?trishtunney>
<table border=0>
<tr>
<td colspan=2>Fill out your e-mail address to receive <br> notice of upcoming shows:</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="151"><input type="text" name="YMLP0" size="28"></td>
<td width="57"><input type="submit" value="Submit"></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td colspan=2>
<input type="radio" name="action" value="subscribe" checked> Subscribe <input type="radio" name="action" value="unsubscribe"> Unsubscribe </td>
</tr>
</table>
</form>

</div>

That first red <b> tag does not have a corresponding </b> which I think is causing your .journal_entry bottom border to be bolded. This is an example of why I don't like the !important tag. In this case it was able to mask a problem in the html.

Also there's no need to use a <big> tag. We can adjust your font size with CSS.

Now on to your questions.

this:

.caption b {color:#f00;}

turns them red. Adjust the color to whatever you want.



Again, this is due to an unclosed <b> tag I'm pretty sure. Close that tag and then we'll move on.
Thanks Mike. I closed the tag.

So ".caption b" means this is what I would like the <b>'s to look like in my captions. Yes?

You also said don't use <big>. Instead, do my font sizing though CSS.

What's the code I need for that? In this example, I wanted a bold address and a bold but larger name on top.

My site is really just a house of cards. It's why I would like it to stop changing. If I knew what I was doing, I probably wouldn't care so much about the changes. And it's not that I don't find the coding interesting, but we all have priorities and I keep falling back on the I'm-a-little-lost-but I'll-poke-at-it-until-it-looks-good method of customization.

Which works really well. Until it doesn't. :D

Also, I don't know what you are talking about when you say the !import tag. And I don't know why this is an example of how it is not a good thing.

thanks!!
Trish

[Mike Lane]

Thanks Mike. I closed the tag.

So ".caption b" means this is what I would like the <b>'s to look like in my captions. Yes?

It means that all the b tags that have div.caption as an ancestor will be red - at least in the way that I defined it, but the color can change.

You also said don't use <big>. Instead, do my font sizing though CSS.

What's the code I need for that? In this example, I wanted a bold address and a bold but larger name on top.

Right. You can adjust the size of the font of your caption by doing something like this:

.caption {font-size:26px;}

That will be much too big but you can scale it down.

My site is really just a house of cards. It's why I would like it to stop changing. If I knew what I was doing, I probably wouldn't care so much about the changes. And it's not that I don't find the coding interesting, but we all have priorities and I keep falling back on the I'm-a-little-lost-but I'll-poke-at-it-until-it-looks-good method of customization.

Don't forget we're volunteering our time as a resource to you. I for one would rather you try things out in the webdev CSS editor and then if you can't get them to work to come to in here. You can post the code that you tried and what you're trying to make your site do. Then we can look at it and tell you why it didn't act like you wanted it to. That is quicker for everyone than the poking at it and putting stuff in until it breaks and then running in here for help. Generally that method involves a whole round of us saying "okay first remove this, close this, do this...etc" before we can even start to get you what you want.

Also, I don't know what you are talking about when you say the !import tag. And I don't know why this is an example of how it is not a good thing.

thanks!!
Trish

That wasn't directed towards you. I'm sort of known for my dislike of the CSS !important attribute. Your site was a great example of one of the reasons why I dislike it. You didn't close a <b> tag which among other things caused the big solid white line in your page. What's more, that couldn't be fixed by using any amount of specificity with the CSS tags in browsers other than IE. But what could fix it is the !important tag. That's great except for the fact that you still had an open tag in your html which is bad. Point is that it would have taken us less time to figure it out had the !important tag not been used. When you're helping as many people as we do in a given day, that's time that could be better spent on other things.

FYI, you can change this:

.journal_entry {border:1px dashed #333333 !important;}

to this:

.journal .journal_entry {border:1px solid #333;}

And if you don't really understand what I was talking about don't worry about it.

[cabbey]

Is it good? Do you like it?

C'est très magnifique. :thumb

[spider-t]

Thanks for your response Mike. I REALLY APPRECIATE you helping out with this type of stuff.
I have a couple more questions....


Right. You can adjust the size of the font of your caption by doing something like this:

.caption {font-size:26px;}

That will be much too big but you can scale it down.



Can I have two different sizes in my captions?

In this example, I wanted to have my name bigger than my address. I did it in this hokey HTML way.

<b><big>Trish Tunney</big><br>
3128 21st Street<br>
rest of the address here<br></b>

How can I do something like this with CSS?



Don't forget we're volunteering our time as a resource to you. I for one would rather you try things out in the webdev CSS editor and then if you can't get them to work to come to in here. [snip]


What is the webdev CSS editor? I've just been typing it in the customizations page.



[snip]
You didn't close a <b> tag which among other things caused the big solid white line in your page.
[snip]

That big solid white line is still on my page even after I closed the tag. But only in Firefox. Any other ideas why that white line is so thick?

http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/1090220 <--big white line

thanks!!!!
Trish

[Andy]

What is the webdev CSS editor? I've just been typing it in the customizations page.


See the Firefox and Firefox Web Dev links in my sig. And this Tutorial, it's a wonderful, easy to use FREE tool:

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=31784

[sayntbrigid]

We're planning on making the 'smugmug gradient' theme our new default look & feel after:

A) we get feedback. Is it good? Do you like it? Have suggestions?

and

B) does it work with your customization? Jimmy probably has some suggestions for small changes (background = none on some places) to get rid of the gradients in your customization.

So if you've got complaints, suggestions, kudos, etc... here's the place. :)

You can see an example at http://themes.smugmug.com

Don

I'm using it, and I LOVE it :)

[pat.kane]

Since you asked for feedback... I prefer the existing default style over the gradient style.

[armani]

Me too, I prefer the existing default style over the gradient style. Actual default style is more "classy" in my opinion.

[Mike Lane]

Can I have two different sizes in my captions?

In this example, I wanted to have my name bigger than my address. I did it in this hokey HTML way.

<b><big>Trish Tunney</big><br>
3128 21st Street<br>
rest of the address here<br></b>

How can I do something like this with CSS?

Try this:
<h2>Trish Tunney</h2><br/>
<strong>3128 21st St<br/>
rest of the address here <br/></strong>


Then you can affect those by using the following CSS:

.caption h2 {font-size:30px; color:#f00;}
.caption strong {font-size:20px; color:#f80;}

That's just an example, change it as you see fit of course.

What is the webdev CSS editor? I've just been typing it in the customizations page.

Use firefox and the webdev tool (www.chrispederick.com) to make non-permanent changes to your CSS while your page is under development.

That big solid white line is still on my page even after I closed the tag. But only in Firefox. Any other ideas why that white line is so thick?

http://www.trishtunney.com/gallery/1090220 <--big white line

thanks!!!!
Trish

You didn't put this in your CSS like I said:

.journal .journal_entry {border:1px solid #333;}

[spider-t]

Try this:
<h2>Trish Tunney</h2><br/>
<strong>3128 21st St<br/>
rest of the address here <br/></strong>


Then you can affect those by using the following CSS:

.caption h2 {font-size:30px; color:#f00;}
.caption strong {font-size:20px; color:#f80;}

That's just an example, change it as you see fit of course.



Use firefox and the webdev tool (www.chrispederick.com (http://www.chrispederick.com)) to make non-permanent changes to your CSS while your page is under development.



You didn't put this in your CSS like I said:

.journal .journal_entry {border:1px solid #333;}


thanks Mike!

Trish

[Andy]

I love this theme, just as it is. But you Power and Pro users, you can trick it out, too. Not hard at all.

http://andydemo.smugmug.com

[cabbey]

.caption h2 {font-size:30px; color:#f00;}
.caption strong {font-size:20px; color:#f80;}

Pixels?! How Quaint. Y'all please excuse me while I hit Mike over the head with a nice (albeit by now slightly broken) high resolution display.

:soapbox

I mean for crying out loud, this is 2006. Higher and higher resolution displays are turning up all over the place, and folks still think it's acceptable to hard code PIXEL counts???

Allow me to suggest a better approach.

I'm going to ASSUME that you're attempt with that 20px value is to get a font about 2x the size of a "normal" font. But that's just an assumption, because I don't know what anyone has as their "normal" font setting, or what their display resolution is (either in reality, or in the deluded mind of their operating system for windows users.) But then neither do you, which is why you should never, ever, hard code anything in PIXELS. On one display I have at work, 20 pixels is about a 3/16 of an inch tall, which means that if the rest of your site is coded with the same assumptions, and using say an 8 or 9 pixel font for "normal" text then as soon as I loaded it, I said "ah, here's someone that doesn't know what they're doing" and left it.

So, we make that assumption and move on... Two ways you can approach this, let's say you really wanted a multiple of the normal font, let's say 3x and 2x respectively:

.caption h2 {font-size:3em; color:#f00;}
.caption strong {font-size:2em; color:#f80;}

Note I used the "em" unit value. Ems are multipliers. They are a proportion of the containing element, or the base size if uncontained. Now if you had really wanted 2.5x, well, you can have that too:

.caption h2 {font-size:3em; color:#f00;}
.caption strong {font-size:2.5em; color:#f80;}

That gives you the ability to control the size of your text relative to some other element, such as the containing object's text. Pixels is also a relative measure, but they are relative to something that (1) you have no control over, and (2) varies WILDLY from user to user. (You may sometimes see folks asserting that the resolution of displays are all 72 dpi (or if they are slightly more cluefull, 72ppi) or even 96ppi if it's "high res". That's pretty absurd. The display I'm typing on now is a bit over 100ppi, the display my wife is using is 84.5 ppi... the point is very very few displays these days are 72ppi.)

So what if you want an absolute measurement? Well, there are several to pick from. Personally, I like good old fashioned typographic units like pica, or points. (72 points = 1 inch; 12 points = 1 pica) At 6 pica to an inch, a font size of 1 pica is roughly on par with newspaper print density. So let's say that instead what you wanted to accomplish with those values above was to do roughly 1/3 and 1/5 of an inch. (I'm assuming here that those values were determined with something approximating a 100ppi screen as being "good"... wild guess, but I have to try to make some guesses to get any idea what the appropriate values need to be.)

.caption h2 {font-size:24pt; color:#f00;}
.caption strong {font-size:14.4pt; color:#f80;}

While you likely won't notice the change yourself as you move to using predictable units, it's probable that your viewers will. Ever been to a website and wondered "why did they use such a small font?" or "why did they use such a huge font?" It's because of issues like this. Those designers did the same thing Mike suggests here, they hardcoded units in pixels that looked good on their displays, or their clients, and those displays have a different resolution than yours. This is why browsers invented the font enlarge/shrink options, and why they're keystroke accessible on many browsers today.

Ok, I'll step off the soapbox for now. This issue just happens to touch a very raw nerve for me. Recomended reading (http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/WD-css3-values-20050726/#lengths) for those that care to present their websites in a reliable fashion. (Note that these units are NOT restricted to fonts... want to make an object 6 lines of text tall? use a height value of 6em... great in combination with scalable vector graphics (http://www.google.com/search?q=svg).)

[Mike Lane]

... Yawn ... You know what they say happens when you assume...

Oh and what do you think about the look of your smugmug site btw? It's the default Smugmug Black style. No big deal, no customizations, just images and text. Does the text look odd to you? Too big? Too small? Just right? Guess what hotshot, your site uses pixel font values! :lol3

Thanks for the lecture but I'm fully aware of everything you posted. I'll share a tid bit about what is considered the "right" way to do fonts on the web in a minute. But first...

I chose in that example for 3 reasons.
The default smugmugBlack CSS uses pixel font values. Why? Pixels are pixels. A smugmug site's main content is images which obviously need to be pixel values. Text is ancillary content on Smugmug. Text is meant to enhance the photo viewing experience not overtake it. So pixel values (which IE can't resize) are used. That's my best guess on why Smugmug uses pixel values. Fortunately for me, I don't care which is one reason I tend to stick with pixel values for the examples I give on dgrin. At the very least, it's more consistent for those folks who really don't know much about what is going on with CSS.
I did NOT choose a 20px value to "get a font about 2x the size of a 'normal' font." That's actually a pretty ridiculous thing to assume.
I did it to make it silly large (the first one is 30px mind you). Notice the color I used: #f00. Full on bright red. Silly large and bright red. The other font is slightly smaller (20px) but still silly large and this time bright orange. Kinda get what I'm doing? Making it WAY too obvious what those changes did. That way it's stupid obvious what the code I just posted does. The dgrinner either looks up a way to make it non-silly or they ask us about the CSS font property.
What I've found in the time that I've been helping people with their site deisgn on dgrin is that consistency and clarity is key. Furthermore, all the helper types in here have way too much to do than to explain to everyone what an em or ex is, why it should be used, what you need to do to convert your entire site over to % and em (read why below), and why IE may or may not have a problem with it. Furthermore, we don't have the time to explain why the font I gave them is a different size relative to other fonts on their site when someone upsizes it in IE. Don't forget that IE6 (still the most popular browser by a massive amount) simply will not upsize pixel value fonts. Again, it's a consistency thing. Perhaps most importantly is the fact that, like it or not, pixel values are easy. Silly easy. I'm all about things being easy when it comes to helping people out. I could do a tutorial that spells out exactly how one "should" do their fonts on their site and why pixel values are bad. But ultimately, lots and lots of people just won't get it. Frankly I've got better things to do than to try to help people fix something that isn't broken in the first place.The now generally accepted right way to do fonts on a website is to use a combination of percentage and em values. See here (http://www.clagnut.com/blog/348/) and here (http://www.mondaybynoon.com/2006/03/13/effective-style-with-em/). Actually Mozilla recommends that you use ex values for fonts because em values have problems with rounding errors (http://kb.mozillazine.org/Em_vs._ex). Unfortunately ex values are not implemented properly on all browsers. So percentage and em it is.

But am I going to take the time to explain that to a dgrinner who can't yet figure out how to make it so their header image is a link??? Absolutely no offense to anyone who is in that boat, but if you don't yet know enough about xhtml to make your header a link, then you most certainly don't know and don't need to know the finer points about sizing your fonts with relative units.

Simplicity and consistency. It's a mantra to live by.

And FYI, it's better not to just fly off into a flamefest the first chance you get :thumb

[bwg]

oooooh snap!

http://www.snazzytown.com/servm.jpg

[gblotter]

Gradient is a nice step forward.

There is a balance to be maintained. Existing customer don't want the the status quo to "break". However, to remain in the same place includes the risk of becoming old, stale, antiquated.

Change is a necessary component of progress that everyone must deal with in all aspects of life.

So long as smugmug is prepared to handle the increased volume of support issues resulting from this change, I say go for it.