Back support?

[BBones]

Question for you about back support. After shooting at the track for a full day my back is pretty sore from a lot of hanging over things and twisting myself around safety walls to get shots, as well as holding a 1D with a 70-200 IS L 2.8 all day.

Any ideas on back supporters? Would something like the UPS guys wear help me out?

[Art Scott]

Actually a back supposrt belt would only hinder you [it did me anyway].....I have had the same problems when shooting concerts and even weddings.

What helpped me was exercise....those really boring stretching and twisting exercises along with a full regime of doing a light weight cycle on machines 2 or 3 times a week and when stretching do stretches in the position you find yourself shooting in and with light dumbells or leg/wrist weights....

This will not actually get you into shape but it will help with lower back and shoulder pain....at leat it did for me (also lowered my blood sugars:D).

GOOD LUCK...back / shoulder pain sucks.

[silica]

Question for you about back support. After shooting at the track for a full day my back is pretty sore from a lot of hanging over things and twisting myself around safety walls to get shots, as well as holding a 1D with a 70-200 IS L 2.8 all day.

Any ideas on back supporters? Would something like the UPS guys wear help me out?

There's quite a bit of data in the medical literature now on back supports. The type you are referring to - the UPS guy's type - does not prevent back injury, but can help to remind you to maintain proper posture. Since it does that, if you have to assume a awkward position anyway, then the back support is going to be uncomfortable. That's because it's doing its job :):

Stretching and exercise help a great deal. There are many books on the market that deal with these issues. I'd recommend

Treat Your Own Back by Robin McKenzie ($10 at Amazon)

[gus]

Actually a back supposrt belt would only hinder you [it did me anyway].....I have had the same problems when shooting concerts and even weddings.

What helpped me was exercise....those really boring stretching and twisting exercises along with a full regime of doing a light weight cycle on machines 2 or 3 times a week and when stretching do stretches in the position you find yourself shooting in and with light dumbells or leg/wrist weights....

This will not actually get you into shape but it will help with lower back and shoulder pain....at leat it did for me (also lowered my blood sugars:D).

GOOD LUCK...back / shoulder pain sucks.
Very good advice. What you need to do is to build those lower back muscles up so that they are able to support your back. Muscles get lazy without exercise. You dont need to be benching 260 every day but just constant light training a few times a week. When my back gets sore its a signal that im not exercising it or eating enough omega 3. Unless you have a perm incapacitation i would expect those supports will make the muscle lazier.

Get into the omega 3's.. (fish oil) 6000 mg a day is normal dose or eat tuna etc. Omega 3's are a natural anti-inflammatory for joint pain & will do your heart the world of good also with lowering serum triglycerides.

[Shay Stephens]

I have a bad back that goes out from time to time. When it does, the UPS guy back support can help keep me working. But, as mentioned, the best thing is to exercize the back specifically. That has been the only thing that has helpped me out long term.

You might want to check out Pilates (http://www.medic8.com/healthguide/articles/pilates.html).

[Angelo]

Yoga, Yoga, Yoga!!!!

I swear by it.

[wxwax]

Yoga, Yoga, Yoga!!!!

I swear by it.
What do you put in yours? I like pistachios.

[John Mueller]

What do you put in yours? I like pistachios.
That sounds good Sid:D

[wxwax]

Question for you about back support. After shooting at the track for a full day my back is pretty sore from a lot of hanging over things and twisting myself around safety walls to get shots, as well as holding a 1D with a 70-200 IS L 2.8 all day.

Any ideas on back supporters? Would something like the UPS guys wear help me out?
A super simple lower back exercise is to get an inflatable exercise ball, lie on it face down with the ball under your stomach. Press your feet against a wall so you have something to push against. Let your head and upper body droop all the way down. Then raise your head to be even with your body. Then back down.

Your lower back should be doing the work of raising and lowering your upper torso. Do about 10-15 reps. Rest and repeat. Works a treat for me.

http://www.definingeve.com/eximages/b3.gif

[gus]

A super simple lower back exercise is to get an inflatable exercise ball, lie on it face down with the ball under your stomach. Press your feet against a wall so you have something to push against. Let your head and upper body droop all the way down. Then raise your head to be even with your body. Then back down.

Your lower back should be doing the work of raising and lowering your upper torso. Do about 10-15 reps. Rest and repeat. Works a treat for me.

http://www.definingeve.com/eximages/b3.gif
Each to their own sid but i recon this is an exercise designed to strain the lower back & i would never do it myself. You must be very carefull not to put pressure onto the disc's & push them out (slipped disc). It may well be suited to people whom are fitness freaks & are constantly working out but man no-one should try that exercise without a long slow build up to it. Its a recipe for disaster.

Just my opinion.

[wxwax]

Fair enough. I'm not a waif, occasionally get a sore lower back, something's tweaked on the lower right. This really helps settle it all down. It's a very easy exercise.

[gus]

Fair enough. I'm not a waif, occasionally get a sore lower back, something's tweaked on the lower right. This really helps settle it all down. It's a very easy exercise.
No doubt there are degrees that you can do it in & it is fine but for someone to just jump into that in my opinion is at high risk to pop a disc. I have popped one & until that time i always considered people that talked about lower back pain to be sooks & whingers...hell did i get a fast education. I think the secret here is moderate exercise until you look like a condom full of walnuts & then you can go lifting cars off the ground & stopping bullets.

[wxwax]

I'm pretty sure I don't look like a condom full of walnuts! :lol3

[gus]

I'm pretty sure I don't look like a condom full of walnuts! :lol3
Nup...but Big Ronnie (http://images.google.com.au/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=ronnie+coleman)does.

[Art Scott]

yup yup that is what is commonly know as a HYPER-EXTENSION and was only to used by very well trained athletes...that is no beginners exercise.....

Angelo...yoga is so generic.....there are almost as many types of yoga (maybe more) than Bressler's had ice cream (33 flavors).......and again one must be careful with Yoga...yes it is great....but some are only for people who have mastered other forms of Yoga.....I know a Buddhist Lama that teaches Yantra Yoga in the Chicago area.....it is great an only has 8 or 9 total positions...looks easy....BUT...............


If the back is a touch sore and your a touch stressed.....find a REIKI practioner and have them give you a treatment...works wonders.

[wxwax]

yup yup that is what is commonly know as a HYPER-EXTENSION and was only to used by very well trained athletes...that is no beginners exercise.....


Back extension is what we call it. :dunno

And I can assure you that I am not a well trained athlete. You guys are being alarmist.

[gus]

You guys are being alarmist.
No we are not....we have a diff opinion to you & you dont like it :1drink

[wxwax]

No we are not....we have a diff opinion to you & you dont like it :1drink

Actually, that's an accurate description of your reaction. :evil "Just your opinion" has now stretched into four posts. :deal

Me, I'm a 30 pound overweight guy who's closer to the end of his life than the beginning... and I can do this exercise without breaking a sweat. And in fact, I do so on a regular basis.

Do you?

Therefore, in my opinion you're grossly overstating the risks. And unnecessarily frightening BBones away from a simple exercise that could easily help him.

So there. :smack

[silica]

Each to their own sid but i recon this is an exercise designed to strain the lower back & i would never do it myself. You must be very carefull not to put pressure onto the disc's & push them out (slipped disc). It may well be suited to people whom are fitness freaks & are constantly working out but man no-one should try that exercise without a long slow build up to it. Its a recipe for disaster.

Just my opinion.

If what you are saying was true, then the majority of herniated discs would be anterior. But they are primarily posterior, slightly to the lateral side or midline. The type of stress that causes the discs to pushed posteriorly is flexion, not extension. Depending on our vocation, many of us will spend the majority of our waking hours with our back in flexion. Gentle extension exercises have been used for years in the treatment of low back pain by physicians and physical therapists and are not considered harmful, but beneficial. Dr. Robin McKenzie originally developed the McKenzie extension exercises used by physical therapists and describes them in the book I mentioned earlier. McKenzie was not so arrogant as to suggest extension exercises would work for everyone. In fact, some people benefit from flexion exercises, usually using the Williams technique.

That's not to say that one specific exercise is the proper one for everyone. Some folks may need a different variety because they have a problem outside the usual. But please don't condemn extension exercises for others based upon your personal biases and individual experience.

[wxwax]

If what you are saying was true, then the majority of herniated discs would be anterior. But they are primarily posterior, slightly to the lateral side or midline. The type of stress that causes the discs to pushed posteriorly is flexion, not extension. Depending on our vocation, many of us will spend the majority of our waking hours with our back in flexion. Gentle extension exercises have been used for years in the treatment of low back pain by physicians and physical therapists and are not considered harmful, but beneficial. Dr. Robin McKenzie originally developed the McKenzie extension exercises used by physical therapists and describes them in the book I mentioned earlier.

That's not to say that one specific exercise is the proper one for everyone. Some folks may need a different variety because they have a problem outside the usual. But please don't condemn extension exercises for others based upon your personal biases and individual experience.
:thumb Facts! :lol3

Thanks for the detailed response.

[gus]

Actually, that's an accurate description of your reaction. :evil "Just your opinion" has now stretched into three posts. :deal

Me, I'm a 30 pound overweight guy who's closer to the end of his life than the beginning... and I can do this exercise without breaking a sweat. And in fact, I do so on a regular basis.

Do you?

Therefore, in my opinion you're grossly overstating the risks. And unnecessarily frightening BBones away from a simple exercise that could easily help him.

So there. :smack
Not often i get you to burr up but that was interesting. You are still wrong though. That is not a smart thing to start doing IF you do not have a regular exercise programme. You will be at very high risk of a lower back strain.

[wxwax]

Not often i get you to burr up but that was interesting. You are still wrong though. That is not a smart thing to start doing IF you do not have a regular exercise programme. You will be at very high risk of a lower back strain.
Mate, read the post above yours. :lol3

[gus]

Mate, read the post above yours. :lol3
Ok so they used big words & you want to back them ...no worries as you were loosing ground real fast there china, i would have done the same if i was running for cover as well.

Fact is that if you are not into a regular exercise programme & try this style of exercise you are at a high risk of a lower back strain...

Now some idiot tell me im wrong ??????????? No doubt there is some face to save here & its going to be interesting reading.

[Nee7x7]

Ok, sorry guys, but I'm going to blow some of your theories out of the water. A bad back isn't caused as much by weak back muscles as it is by weak stomach muscles!!!

Speaking from personal experience having suffered from severe degenerative disk problems and going through two (count 'em!) back surgeries, I can tell you that despite what the Docs and exercise gurus might say, the BEST relief came from strengthening my stomach muscles...(while strenghtening your back certainly has validity, most of the recommended back exercises usually made my pain get worse) .

I rarely have back pain at all now, though I still have a lot of physical problems as a result of the herniated disks and permanent nerve damage I ended up with. But doing a modified sit up type exercise (that doesn't put any strain on my back or neck) is what did it for me.

Lower back pain is no joke...so my best advice is to strengthen the entire mid-section...front and back and you should do well. ~Nee

[Angelo]

What do you put in yours? I like pistachios.



:lol3 :lol3 :lol3



:whip

[gus]

Ok, sorry guys, but I'm going to blow some of your theories out of the water. A bad back isn't caused as much by weak back muscles as it is by weak stomach muscles!!!

Speaking from personal experience having suffered from severe degenerative disk problems and going through two (count 'em!) back surgeries, I can tell you that despite what the Docs and exercise gurus might say, the BEST relief came from strengthening my stomach muscles...(while strenghtening your back certainly has validity, most of the recommended back exercises usually made my pain get worse) .

I rarely have back pain at all now, though I still have a lot of physical problems as a result of the herniated disks and permanent nerve damage I ended up with. But doing a modified sit up type exercise (that doesn't put any strain on my back or neck) is what did it for me.

Lower back pain is no joke...so my best advice is to strengthen the entire mid-section...front and back and you should do well. ~Nee
Mine was caused by a popped disk & lost fluid but the physio (sp?) always said that one of the best ways to make for a stronger back was pelvic floor exercises. There a lot of muscles in there around the abdomen that are hard to get working & they used a ultra sound on me to show those muscles working & thus teaching how to isolate each one.

[devbobo]

pelvic floor exercises.

something u want to tell us Gus :lol3:lol3

[gus]

something u want to tell us Gus :lol3:lol3
Mate...when you can't walk across a room without your legs dropping out from under you ...you will take the advise of anyone...be that pregnancy exercises or not. I did start to worry when they mentioned the ultrasound as well though :huh

[wxwax]

Ok so they used big words & you want to back them ...no worries as you were loosing ground real fast there china, i would have done the same if i was running for cover as well.

Fact is that if you are not into a regular exercise programme & try this style of exercise you are at a high risk of a lower back strain...

Now some idiot tell me im wrong ??????????? No doubt there is some face to save here & its going to be interesting reading.

:lol3 Calmed down yet?

Get back to me when you've actually done the exercise. :evil

[Rohirrim]

Now some idiot tell me im wrong ??????????? No doubt there is some face to save here & its going to be interesting reading.

Thats a bit rude isn't it. I'm not totally sure who you were calling an idiot, but Silica sounds like the only one in this thread that truly sounds like he knows what he/she is talking about. No offense meant to anyone else.

There is no one exercise that will fix all back problems. General good fitness and exercises designed to help both the back and the abdomen are good ideas for all of us. For treating specific back injuries it would be best to rely on your physician/therapist recommendations.

[Bob Bell]

Now that this is 3 pages I guess I should chime in.

When I was trained in high school and college for basketball, the trainers would always say not to do leg lifts because it could damage the back. They did have us doing something called Good Mornings where is where you lock your legs and you put your body down at a 90 degree angle and lift until your body is even. It is pure hell but its safer for your back. Now that yoga balls are out, they have been translating a lot of exercises to the ball. As I understand the yoga ball it forces other muscle groups to balance you, which is better than ISO excersises.

The thing that most people don't understand is that most back problems are caused by your core muscles not being in shape. It takes your abs, obliques, transverse and back muscles to keep your core solid.

The other thing, that I have noticed getting older, I'm 38, is that I have lost a lot of flexibility both from injuries and from getting older. So when I go on a 5 mile hike with a 40 pound camera backpack, I am very tight and my lower back, calfs, and shoulders are dead tired.

The trip to utah is making me face some of these realities and I am trying to get some core strength back and a lot more flexibility.

[gus]

Thats a bit rude isn't it. I'm not totally sure who you were calling an idiot, but Silica sounds like the only one in this thread that truly sounds like he knows what he/she is talking about. No offense meant to anyone else.

There is no one exercise that will fix all back problems. General good fitness and exercises designed to help both the back and the abdomen are good ideas for all of us. For treating specific back injuries it would be best to rely on your physician/therapist recommendations.
Sometimes people need rude to wake them up to the pile of bull**** they are sprouting. I wouldnt know if silica is a 40 year experienced thorasic surgeon or some 'got my certificate in a cornflacks packet this morning' homeopathic back cracker.

Dont quote me with something im not saying..ok...get my argument right before you start floundering in the water next to waxy ! I am not advocating ANY particular exercise...i am saying that anyone whom tells someone to do lower back extentions without consultation with a pro or lead up is a fool.

[gus]

:lol3 Calmed down yet?

Get back to me when you've actually done the exercise. :evil

No calming down to do at all mate...just wanting to point out that you are dead wrong & you are feeling very very uncomfortable with it.

In the past 25 years i have never not exersized....i will go to a gym 3 days a week & can run up to 60 miles a week....and manage lower back problems daily.

Next ?

[Rohirrim]

Dont quote me with something im not saying..ok...get my argument right before you start floundering in the water next to waxy ! I am not advocating ANY particular exercise...i am saying that anyone whom tells someone to do lower back extentions without consultation with a pro or lead up is a fool.

I didn't quote you as saying anything other than what was in the quotes in my reply. The second paragraph only pertained to the general subject.

[wxwax]

No calming down to do at all mate...just wanting to point out that you are dead wrong & you are feeling very very uncomfortable with it.

In the past 25 years i have never not exersized....i will go to a gym 3 days a week & can run up to 60 miles a week....and manage lower back problems daily.

Next ?

:nono

And yet you haven't even done the exercise you're such an expert on? :lol3

If I want useful advice about something, I tend to listen to people who have actual experience with it. :cool

On a separate note, it's a pity that in an innocuous little thread about back pain, five our your last seven posts have taken personal jibes at some of us. That's just not necessary, Gus. Take a chill pill.

As for me, I'm about to do 30 minutes on an elliptical trainer.... then do two sets of 15 backs extensions on the exercise ball! :1drink Call the ambulance! :rofl

[gus]

:nono

And yet you haven't even done the exercise you're such an expert on? :lol3

If I want useful advice about something, I tend to listen to people who have actual experience with it. :cool

On a separate note, it's a pity that in an innocuous little thread about back pain, five our your last seven posts have taken personal jibes at some of us. That's just not necessary, Gus. Take a chill pill.

As for me, I'm about to do 30 minutes on an elliptical trainer.... then do two sets of 15 backs extensions on the exercise ball! :1drink Call the ambulance! :rofl

Again for ..what ? maybe the 5th time mate... you are NOT in a position to be issuing medical/training advice. You are not a gym trainer...physio consultant...dr...the list is endless.

Give camera advise in here till the cows come home but i will not sit here & watch someone pass out information that could seriously injure someone. And to clear the air....you assume you know my exersize routine ? Can you enlighten me as to what it is just for the books ?

Hows that hole your digging going ? In china yet ? Just call out when you want some more rope.

[Nee7x7]

OK, guys...calm down the testosterone. Your levels are WAAAAAYYY too high! None of us are experts other than what we know from our own experiences. Gus, I know your passion comes from feeling your knowledge comes from someone who has been there and done that. And I think Waxy feels the same. But this battling among yourselves accomplishes little :beatwax . Remember the goal is to help each other on this forum and back pain seems to be a fairly common denominator among us. Photography IS hard on the back, so seeking answers here is a wise course to follow, though for medical advice we can only hand it out with a grain of salt that comes from personal experience. Remember that what works for one person may not be the answer for someone else.

Back (muscle) strain is not the same as a ruptured disk, so they have different courses of treatment that need to be followed. My problem was (and still is) lower back ruptured disks pressing on nerve roots, so my experience is limited to that situation.

For me, any exercises that involved twisting the upper body from the waist were especially bad. Leg lifts of any sort made things worse. Doggie style exercises were the pits...and regular sit-ups a misery. These were the sorts of exercises being recommended by doctors and therapists at the time of my back problems. All of them hurt my back even more, so I set out to find my own answers.

I noticed that whenever I sneezed, severe pain shot through my back like a bolt of lightening. I quickly discovered if I would support my abdomen with my hands and brace myself when I felt a sneeze coming on, my back was spared that excruciating pain. So I took that experience and expanded on it to focus more on exercising my stomach muscles, which were in poor shape after motherhood had stretched them out. And I found that focusing on abdominal strengthening exercises produced the best result for me. Guys with a pot belly have the same tummy issues as pregnant women, so it's not just a "female" thing.

Anyhow, I think a lot of good advice has been offered. Take it all with a grain of salt. Talk to the pros (docs and therapists), listen to those who have been down the same road, but best of all...listen to your own body! If an exercise makes your back feel better...you're on the right track. If it makes it hurt more, then by all means STOP DOING IT!!! Experiment until you find what works best for you and realize that not all pain and backs are alike, so what works for one may not work for another. Yes, there are certain commonalities for all people, but we are not all made equal.

Gus, you're pretty much a giant of a man who was in (I'm assuming) fairly good physical shape before your episode. Age, weight, physical condition are all factors with huge variables from one person to another and that is why I say one man's meat is another man's poison. None of us has it exactly right for the next fellow, because the next fellow has a different set of variables. So, can we all just get along now and not fight over who is "right" and who is "wrong"? If Waxy's back extensions are helping him, then more power to him! If they don't work for the next guy, that's just life.

Good Luck and Good Shooting, everyone!
~Nee :D

ps.
Consider this...even docs and physical therapists may not have all the right answers...they are only passing on what they've been taught, not necessarily what they learned through personal experience! I've learned to not trust the medical profession so completely (it is called the PRACTICE of medicine, after all :rolleyes ). To be honest, most of my problems were only made WORSE by the doctors who supposedly could make them better! You've heard it said, doctors make the worst patients (cuz they're good at handing out advice, but terrible at following it, lol!) Personal experience is the best teacher and makes all the difference in the world~

[gus]

Nee...i am not disputing anything but this.

If someone has lower back pain then they should not begin an exersize programme of lower back extentions on the advise taken from an internet photographic forum.

[Nee7x7]

Nee...i am not disputing anything but this.

If someone has lower back pain then they should not begin an exersize programme of lower back extentions on the advise taken from an internet photographic forum.

LOL! Gus, I can certainly agree with that advice! Like I said, we can only take each other's advice with a grain of salt (in other words, not as gospel but lightly, as they are only opinions). No one should jump into exercise without doing some personal investigation first, and no one should continue to do any exercise if it aggravates the problem rather than helping it.

Ya know I luv ya, ya big galoot! Now will you and Waxy please go kiss and make up?! ~Nee :smooch