*** new comments and critiques procedure *** [Sitemap]

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 03:51 PM

the c & c thread *is* getting a bit unmanageable. let's try something new, okay?

go to www.dgrin.smugmug.com

at bottom of page, click "login"
username is "dgrin" (no quotes)
use guest password "dgrinchallenge" (no quotes)

upload your photos. comment and critique away using the comments button right there in the gallery. don't forget to add a caption (title) to your photo, and put your name on it to. use the html tag to make a new line for your name.

for example

"how much is that doggie in the window" 
by jane challenger

*** if you are a smugmug user, you must first "logout" of your own account before you can "login" as a guest user on the dgrin.smugmug.com account.

the password is dgrinchallenge

have fun, kids.

GREAPER

Aug-24-2004, 04:00 PM

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 04:04 PM

This is an interesting approach, cudos to the person that thought of it. I hope it cuts down on the duplication and confusion.

Just a question, you will have to click on a photo to see if there are any new comments, right?

you are most welcome, greaps :D yeah, you have to click on "add comment" then to view comments, you click on the hyperlinked word "comments" below the photo

Shakey

Aug-24-2004, 04:26 PM

Psst, Andy... your benevolence is showing.:D
Thanks for your efforts.:clap

Tim

ginger_55

Aug-24-2004, 04:28 PM

the c & c thread *is* getting a bit unmanageable. let's try something new, okay?

go to www.dgrin.smugmug.com (http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com/)

have fun, kids.
I imagine the serious users will like this. I cannot imagine that I will. It will cut out the spontenaity, etc.

I will go look at it, but I hardly ever log out of smugmug, I certainly don't want to go in, pick out a photo, copy in the share page, log out, log in somewhere else, and .....................well, I am sorry if the happy birthday thing caused this, because I hate to say I don't like it, but I don't.

I am sure everyone else will.

Enjoy, I will watch for a bit, perhaps, if I ever log out of smugmug, my acct.

ginger

rutt

Aug-24-2004, 04:35 PM

This seems like a good idea basically, but maybe we can make it a little better. I made a feature request for pro accounts to Baldy; could we allow guests to upload pictures to galleries to enable colaboration. He said the feature was already there for pro accounts, but not on a per gallery basis. So if there were a challenge account, anyone with the passowrd could upload to it (wiout logging out of his/her smugmug account) and also comment.

Baldy, are you out there? Do I have this right? Can we use this? I think it would be a little more convienient.

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 04:37 PM

give it a try. loging out of your smugmug acct takes about .3 seconds :D

you just upload the photo from your computer, the same way you do for your own gallery. that takes about 15 seconds. all in all, this should make things easier for everyone. all comments for a pic will be underneath that pic. good for you as you post your shots, good for the others that you comment on, which you do so well.

it's new - okay - and you'll have to get used to it. but it's certainly not difficult, i promise.

give it a try, don't stop doing what you're doing, okay? :deal

I imagine the serious users will like this. I cannot imagine that I will. It will cut out the spontenaity, etc.

I will go look at it, but I hardly ever log out of smugmug, I certainly don't want to go in, pick out a photo, copy in the share page, log out, log in somewhere else, and .....................well, I am sorry if the happy birthday thing caused this, because I hate to say I don't like it, but I don't.

I am sure everyone else will.

Enjoy, I will watch for a bit, perhaps, if I ever log out of smugmug, my acct.

ginger

ginger_55

Aug-24-2004, 04:41 PM

Actually, I don't understand most of what anyone is saying. I printed out Andy's instructions, I clicked on the site, saw Andy's bridge, made a comment about how I didn't have to use a password, saw it by the bridge, looked quite cold and professional.

Sorry Rutt, I don't understand any of this, maybe just too much in a short time, or maybe I need to buy a book on it, but I don't understand what you said.

And I am glad everyone is happy.

ginger

Actually, I feel like someone came and took something nice away from me, and I am kind of in shock, a bit angry, and I know you all like it, I just don't.

But, do you think you are going to gain people this way? That was your goal yesterday, is this how to gain people?

Or just change the demographics.

ginger_55

Aug-24-2004, 04:42 PM

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 04:44 PM

you can comment without logging in. you must log in to upload a photo.

btw - you commented on the entire gallery, not an individual photo. just so you know :D

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 04:45 PM

What about the camaraderie, the fun, the caring?

ginger

ginger dude - you can still say the same exact things in the comments section that you say in the thread! honestly, give it a go, i'm sure you'll get the hang of it. you shouldn't lose out on any of the experience.

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 04:46 PM

don't be so blue - there's no need to buy a book, i promise you. you already are a smugmug user. you know how to do this stuff in your sleep :D

Actually, I don't understand most of what anyone is saying. I printed out Andy's instructions, I clicked on the site, saw Andy's bridge, made a comment about how I didn't have to use a password, saw it by the bridge, looked quite cold and professional.

Sorry Rutt, I don't understand any of this, maybe just too much in a short time, or maybe I need to buy a book on it, but I don't understand what you said.

And I am glad everyone is happy.

ginger

Actually, I feel like someone came and took something nice away from me, and I am kind of in shock, a bit angry, and I know you all like it, I just don't.

But, do you think you are going to gain people this way? That was your goal yesterday, is this how to gain people?

Or just change the demographics.

dkapp

Aug-24-2004, 04:47 PM

Great idea. I think this will be a lot easier for people to view photos, comment and share ideas. Honestly, there is no way in hell I was going to try & keep up with the C&C threads. I just don't have the time.

It is definitely worth a try.

Dave

ginger_55

Aug-24-2004, 04:47 PM

What about the camaraderie, the fun, the caring?

ginger
At some times, we had like a conversation going, and we could see what everyone was doing, now we will only be able to see what we know we want to see, right? Like if I post a photo I am working on, and I want comments, someone will come in and make helpful comments, but it will lose the sense of teamwork, and will be more like "my photo".

I mean I cared who won this Challenge, it is why I use dGrin. If it is just my photo, well, I only do photography for the fun of it.

ginger

(I know I don't like change, but I carefully look for what I do like. When I find it, why would I want it to change. I do like what you just said about the upload, but then I will probably not use smugmug much, no need.) If I do this.

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 04:52 PM

don't over-complicate things ging... you'll see. you can "banter" in teh comments section. it's easier to see all the photos on one page rather than sort thru 20 or 30 pages and 500 posts in the comments thread.

trust me. would i steer you wrong, ginger? :sweet

At some times, we had like a conversation going, and we could see what everyone was doing, now we will only be able to see what we know we want to see, right? Like if I post a photo I am working on, and I want comments, someone will come in and make helpful comments, but it will lose the sense of teamwork, and will be more like "my photo".

I mean I cared who won this Challenge, it is why I use dGrin. If it is just my photo, well, I only do photography for the fun of it.

ginger

(I know I don't like change, but I carefully look for what I do like. When I find it, why would I want it to change. I do like what you just said about the upload, but then I will probably not use smugmug much, no need.) If I do this.

dkapp

Aug-24-2004, 04:53 PM

At some times, we had like a conversation going, and we could see what everyone was doing, now we will only be able to see what we know we want to see, right?

I think a thread dedicated to ramblings would be best for the "Wide Angle" forum. We could create a thread aimed at nothing but conversations. As far as posting your pictures & ideas in a forum, you created a blog last week, but it has been neglected. I keep checking back for updates, but find nothing. Here is the link:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2363
Dave

rutt

Aug-24-2004, 05:00 PM

Ginger, or anyone else, you can always start a thread and see who comes. It won't be "sticky" unless you get a moderator to make it so, but I'll bet they would do that. Then people will vote with their feet. (Err, fingers.)

I'm sort of a fremarketer at heart.

snapapple

Aug-24-2004, 05:43 PM

I only have one problem.

I viewed the pics and made a comment. Figured out that I put my name in and no email or anything else is needed. Fine so far.

But--- posting a picture is harder. I will have to resize everything that I post. Right now I upload my full size file to my account. That way I have the resolution needed for large prints. When I link to dgrin they automatically resize the photo when I select M or L . I just keep the gallery so that the original is not available to viewers. As I see it, I can't do that here. I have to post a low resolution file because all the camera info and file info and image size is accessable. I don't want everyone to have that. Am I right here? I will have to do a "save for the web" size file for anything that I post on this new site?

snapapple

Aug-24-2004, 05:49 PM

I think a thread dedicated to ramblings would be best for the "Wide Angle" forum. We could create a thread aimed at nothing but conversations. As far as posting your pictures & ideas in a forum, you created a blog last week, but it has been neglected. I keep checking back for updates, but find nothing. Here is the link:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2363
Dave

Hey Dave,

I never saw that thread. No wonder it never got going. The problem is these things don't stay on top unless someone - even Ginger herself- posts something. If not they just move down the list and nobody sees them. I remember posting a picture for comments once and I finally had to put a comment in the current comments thread asking for someone to take a look. So these things sometimes don't work. Ginger started a thread on "Doors" and "Windows". I picked it up and kept on posting until some other people discovered it. It's been fun. A nice distraction from the challenge. But, it has to have current posts to stay alive.

pathfinder

Aug-24-2004, 05:57 PM

you can comment without logging in. you must log in to upload a photo.

:D
I HAD to log in to post a comment Andy.

The thing that I do not like is that the comments are anonymous :wxwax - This means that I will devalue them, because I do not know who posted them. Comments have to be taken differently depending on whom they came from. :huh

Also there are no smilies - I complained about that in my comment - and I am sorry, but I think the emoticons ARE really necessary to communicate our intentions clearly. Many of our comments are in jest or light hearted and can easily be misinterpreted with out the emoticons to help spell out our intentions. Criticsim with out being leavened with emoticons can be kind of harsh sometimes. :dunno

I may siding with Ginger here. :scratch

cmr164

Aug-24-2004, 05:57 PM

the c & c thread *is* getting a bit unmanageable. let's try something new, okay?

go to www.dgrin.smugmug.com (http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com)

at bottom of page, click "login"
username is "dgrin" (no quotes)
use guest password "dgrinchallenge" (no quotes)

upload your photos. comment and critique away using the comments button right there in the gallery. don't forget to add a caption (title) to your photo, and put your name on it to. use the html tag to make a new line for your name.

for example

"how much is that doggie in the window" 
by jane challenger

*** if you are a smugmug user, you must first "logout" of your own account before you can "login" as a guest user on the dgrin.smugmug.com account.

the password is dgrinchallenge

have fun, kids.
Next time I will remember to sign my comment, but at first pass this can be workable

pathfinder

Aug-24-2004, 06:03 PM

Next time I will remember to sign my comment, but at first pass this can be workable
You're right cmr, I could have signed my comment on the dgrin.smugmug screen. I did not remember that - I wonder how many other posters will do that also. Like I said, I do not place much value on anonymous comments - including my own!:D

snapapple

Aug-24-2004, 06:05 PM

I HAD to log in to post a comment Andy.

The thing that I do not like is that the comments are anonymous :wxwax - This means that I will devalue them, because I do not know who posted them. Comments have to be taken differently depending on whom they came from. :huh

Also there are no smilies - I complained about that in my comment - and I am sorry, but I think the emoticons ARE really necessary to communicate our intentions clearly. Many of our comments are in jest or light hearted and can easily be misinterpreted with out the emoticons to help spell out our intentions. Criticsim with out being leavened with emoticons can be kind of harsh sometimes. :dunno

I may siding with Ginger here. :scratch

Pathfinder,
I tried it. I did not have to log in to comment. It asks you to log in, but just below that it says OR put your name and or email address here. I just put Snappy and no email and it went along fine. If you don't put your name on that line, it would be anonamous. But, just put in your name and it's fine. Take a look at my comments on the pics.

I agree with you about the smilies. They do help.
I have a problem with posting pics. I don't like to have to resize everything before I upload. And I don't like having to upload twice. Once to my site and once to dGrin's site. Then we probably have to upload a third time for the actual entry on dGrin's entry thread.

So, there, I vented. Now I'll take a deep breath and wait for Andy to get back to me.

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 06:26 PM

dudes and dudettes:

you don't need to login to simply make comments on people's pics. you can just put your name in the name field. email addy is not required, either. or you can leave these blank, make your comment, and sign your name like this:

"hey this pic is really great. it could be outstanding if you bumped the exposure up just a bit, and maybe crop out the left 1/4 of the frame... -- andy"

not hard, right?

regarding smilies - so you do it the old-fashioned way guys! c'mon :) just like this :-) it's really easy :P and if you want to go hog wild, you can give theme a ^5.

here are some common emoticons, old-fashioned style:

:-) Standard Smiley (you are joking; satisfied)
:) Standard Smiley for lazy people
:-> Follows a really sarcastic remark
(-: Left handed Smiley
:-( Sad Smiley. You aren't joking; You are not satisfied
:< Very Sad Smiley.
:C Very Sad Smiley
:-* Kissing Smiley

Pathfinder,
I tried it. I did not have to log in to comment. It asks you to log in, but just below that it says OR put your name and or email address here. I just put Snappy and no email and it went along fine. If you don't put your name on that line, it would be anonamous. But, just put in your name and it's fine. Take a look at my comments on the pics.

I agree with you about the smilies. They do help.
I have a problem with posting pics. I don't like to have to resize everything before I upload. And I don't like having to upload twice. Once to my site and once to dGrin's site. Then we probably have to upload a third time for the actual entry on dGrin's entry thread.

So, there, I vented. Now I'll take a deep breath and wait for Andy to get back to me.

Andy

Aug-24-2004, 06:30 PM

you can load the full size file, or you can resize to 800x600 your choice. no reason to use "save for web" but you can if you like. i prefer "save as" becuase it keeps the exif.

I only have one problem.

I viewed the pics and made a comment. Figured out that I put my name in and no email or anything else is needed. Fine so far.

But--- posting a picture is harder. I will have to resize everything that I post. Right now I upload my full size file to my account. That way I have the resolution needed for large prints. When I link to dgrin they automatically resize the photo when I select M or L . I just keep the gallery so that the original is not available to viewers. As I see it, I can't do that here. I have to post a low resolution file because all the camera info and file info and image size is accessable. I don't want everyone to have that. Am I right here? I will have to do a "save for the web" size file for anything that I post on this new site?

tmlphoto

Aug-24-2004, 06:56 PM

ginger_55

Aug-24-2004, 07:19 PM

:- (

:<

:- C

cmr164

Aug-24-2004, 07:24 PM

:- (

:<

:- C
Ginger;
Please try to get to like this method. The other way was only good for the few people with lots of time to read dgrin several times each day.

Hugs
Charles

ginger_55

Aug-24-2004, 07:32 PM

I agree totally.
I don't understand lots of the terminology/jargon that is being used, I neither know what a fremarketer is, nor do I know what a freemarketer is, and in what way you are relating it to this change.

That is one example of how I feel about this.

It will not be the same, not here/there, nor on the different threads. That is the purpose of this thing.

I did not keep up with my blog thing, because the comment was made that it was nice that now I could just put all my ramblings and things there. I thought that is right, I will be alone rambling down here in my own blog. That was not what I wanted. I don't much like writing, I do like sharing.

The threads that are going, imo, get "pity" visits from people who, for whatever reason, make it a habit to go around making sure everything gets some attention.

On the Challenge we were all working towards a purpose. I did not feel I was getting a pity visit. There was real "life" in the challenge. That is what I felt.

Some people had no problem that I know of with the comments and critique thread, they posted their entries directly onto the submission thread, bypassing that awkward critique thread.

: C

ginger:cry :cry :cry :cry :cry :1drink

ginger_55

Aug-24-2004, 07:35 PM

Ginger;
Please try to get to like this method. The other way was only good for the few people with lots of time to read dgrin several times each day.

Hugs
Charles

YOu did not have to read it, as I said, many did not, they posted their entry and went on their way.

ginger

muddyknees

Aug-24-2004, 07:35 PM

muddyknees

Aug-24-2004, 07:40 PM

Hey - I just linked to this thread from dgrin.smugmug - here:
http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/201635/1/7711449/Large

...and am now testing to verify that one can link to a particular post within a thread ...

Gary
...which also works.

:D

gary

jwear

Aug-24-2004, 07:50 PM

dudes and dudettes:

you don't need to login to simply make comments on people's pics. you can just put your name in the name field. email addy is not required, either. or you can leave these blank, make your comment, and sign your name like this:

"hey this pic is really great. it could be outstanding if you bumped the exposure up just a bit, and maybe crop out the left 1/4 of the frame... -- andy"

not hard, right?

regarding smilies - so you do it the old-fashioned way guys! c'mon :) just like this :-) it's really easy :P and if you want to go hog wild, you can give theme a ^5.
[quote=jwear] tried the smugmug and find it easier to comment and view than old challenge that i could not post a pic. to or seem to get the comment down .I do not know if this will work but my comment did post on the bridge photo and who every said that not having the time to go on line 2 or more times a day is right on.I am lucking to hit it for 1/2 hr at night when i get home and if you spend 3/4 hr tring to get it to work do the math ? Thank you for all the work and with any luck i can go to my bridge this weekend and take a shot jeff
here are some common emoticons, old-fashioned style:

:-) Standard Smiley (you are joking; satisfied)
:) Standard Smiley for lazy people
:-> Follows a really sarcastic remark
(-: Left handed Smiley
:-( Sad Smiley. You aren't joking; You are not satisfied
:< Very Sad Smiley.
:C Very Sad Smiley
:-* Kissing Smiley[quote=jwear] tried the smugmug and find it easier to comment and view than old challenge that i could not post a pic. to or seem to get the comment down .I do not know if this will work but my comment did post on the bridge photo and who every said that not having the time to go on line 2 or more times a day is right on.I am lucking to hit it for 1/2 hr at night when i get home and if you spend 3/4 hr tring to get it to work do the math ? Thank you for all the work and with any luck i can go to my bridge this weekend and take a shot jeff

snapapple

Aug-24-2004, 07:58 PM

...which also works.

:D

gary

Why do you need this link?

muddyknees

Aug-24-2004, 08:01 PM

the c & c thread *is* getting a bit unmanageable. let's try something new, okay?

go to www.dgrin.smugmug.com (http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com/)

at bottom of page, click "login"
username is "dgrin" (no quotes)
use guest password "dgrinchallenge" (no quotes)

upload your photos. comment and critique away using the comments button right there in the gallery. don't forget to add a caption (title) to your photo, and put your name on it to. use the html tag to make a new line for your name.

for example

"how much is that doggie in the window" 
by jane challenger

*** if you are a smugmug user, you must first "logout" of your own account before you can "login" as a guest user on the dgrin.smugmug.com account.

the password is dgrinchallenge

have fun, kids.One thing to keep in mind that I didn't when I made my recent comments at dgrin.smugmug is to adjust the ratings from the default 5-stars - this could obviously be another way to come up with final "vote" for the winning entry - assuming the current "final contest submissions" thread will eventually end up as a gallery there as well.

gary

jwear

Aug-24-2004, 08:05 PM

[quote=jeff] Andy IN PREVIEW POST What Does To Short And One Letter Mean Some Go Thru But More I Just Give Up ?? Jeff

muddyknees

Aug-24-2004, 08:10 PM

Why do you need this link?to mitigate the "lack-of-community" feeling resulting from the non-threaded nature of the smugmug comments area. Using these links, we can fluidly jump back and forth from a threaded conversation about a photo posted there.

...in fact, let me just try this - should be able to reference a small version of the photo there, here:

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/201635/1/7711449/Small

Gary

muddyknees

Aug-24-2004, 08:28 PM

to mitigate the "lack-of-community" feeling resulting from the non-threaded nature of the smugmug comments area. Using these links, we can fluidly jump back and forth from a threaded conversation about a photo posted there.

...in fact, let me just try this - should be able to reference a small version of the photo there, here:

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/201635/1/7711449/Small

Garywell let me try that embedded link again...

...

Hm... OK, what am I doing wrong - I'm trying to use the insert image icon at the top of the edit-message-window that I'm typing into right now, and inserting above link into the text-box asking for a URL, but nothing happens after I click OK.

But I suppose that's off-topic here... ...except... as a new user I did find the huge comment thread unnavegeable, and, as you can see here, even the image posting procedure here is not fool-proof to complete-idiot-newby's like...

Gary

PerezDesignGroup

Aug-24-2004, 08:45 PM

the c & c thread *is* getting a bit unmanageable. let's try something new, okay?

have fun, kids.
I can't believe this! Just yesterday I really started paying attention to the Challenges over here and I was extremely overwhelmed by the way the photos were being submitted in one thread and critiqued in another. I spent close to 1 hour just trying to follow the trail back and forth between the images and the critiques. Needless to say, this disillusioned me quite a bit. I shrugged it off and low and behold...today you've streamlined the process and re-piqued my curiosity. I look forward to participating in these. Thanks for making it easier, Andy. I just hope my puny A70 can keep up with all you pros. :D At least 'til I can save up some more money...

muddyknees

Aug-24-2004, 08:47 PM

[quote=jeff] Andy IN PREVIEW POST What Does To Short And One Letter Mean Some Go Thru But More I Just Give Up ?? Jefflooks like after you pressed the "reply" button, you didn't type any new text into the reply window that comes up, but instead just pressed the preview post or submit button.

Maybe what happened is you took a long time to write a reply so that your session timed out, so when you tried submitting you got some message about no longer being logged in, and that you then somehow backed up with your browser to the reply window in which your text was missing, and then pressed Submit (or Preview Post), which would get you the message about needing to type at least one character in your reply?

Dont give up - just try it again. One thing I've learned to do when I start taking a long time on my reply is to copy the text of my reply to the clipboard (or to notepad) just before I submit, in case I've timed out, then I can just go back to the thread and re-reply and just paste my reply back in. (I'm gonna do that now, in fact, before I submit this long reply.

Gary

PerezDesignGroup

Aug-24-2004, 08:53 PM

...in fact, let me just try this - should be able to reference a small version of the photo there, here:

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/201635/1/7711449/Small

Gary You need to get the final "Image" Address including the .jpg extension. What you listed is the "Page" address. Sometimes an image is called remotely from a different location. You can get that by clicking on the "Share with Friends, Forums" button below the image.

evil eggplant

Aug-24-2004, 09:06 PM

This seems simple enough, lets see...

muddyknees

Aug-24-2004, 09:23 PM

You need to get the final "Image" Address including the .jpg extension. What you listed is the "Page" address. Sometimes an image is called remotely from a different location. You can get that by clicking on the "Share with Friends, Forums" button below the image.OK, how about:

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/photos/7711449-Th.jpg

:thumb

Thanks!

gubbs

Aug-25-2004, 12:17 AM

Gosh, I go to bed and everything changes :D

Well, I like it so far! :thumb

The only drawback that I can see is that when shots are being progressed and you have new versions, they won't tie in together very well. I suppose that was a problem with original C & C too (unless you were very quick).
Could pull the shot down to PS shaninigans/another thread, and bring it back when your happy :dunno then tie it all in with muddyknees link ideas

SeeMoon

Aug-25-2004, 12:28 AM

Some people had no problem that I know of with the comments and critique thread, they posted their entries directly onto the submission thread, bypassing that awkward critique thread.

I would've liked to put pictures in the c&c but just found it so confusing and didn't always have time to look at all the posts. If i'm away for 5 days there's no way i can keep up! When i'd have a comment on somebody elses pics i couldn't see if it was already commented on or no longer an option for the challenge. But i certainly wasn't always a 100% sure of my submissions in the first place, and would've liked some feedback. But i agree with Andy; this works if you give+receive and i didn't want to ask for comments and not write any myself.

Let's give it a try Ginger! :thumb

gubbs

Aug-25-2004, 01:57 AM

Just thought of something else, is there anyway unread/new comments can be highlighted??

Can't edit either means I've got to get it right first time:doh

dugmar

Aug-25-2004, 03:16 AM

I understand the new format 100%, how to post, comment, etc. I have to agree with Ginger however, emotionally, it has lost something. It just feels colder this way. There was something about the back and forth conversation of the forum that this format simply cannot provide us with.

Plus, on the technical side of it, now when you read coments, instead of reading the comment and looking at a thumbnail of the photo for reference, you now have to read the comment, scroll back up to see what the comment is referring to, and then scroll back down to find where you left off.

Technically speaking again, you have to upload twice (if you want to store your photo on your own smugmug site as well.) Not a big deal for me, but for some with slower dial-up connections it may be.

I'm suddenly less excited about this weekly challenge thing now. I know it's a change, and we are human, and humans are reluctant to change... I'll come around once I get used to it.

Doug

bikehiker

Aug-25-2004, 04:14 AM

I know my opinion is small here, but I believe I'll like the new way better because my time is pretty limited and this will make the challenges easier to keep up with, without have to keep up with the thread 3 times a day. I like the site and challenges but have been getting lost and discouraged at the number of posts per day.

dugmar

Aug-25-2004, 06:43 AM

Okay,

So I did two things on the new page today. 1.) uploaded a photo, 2.) commented on someone elses photo. This is what I had to do...

First, upload the photo to my smugmug page (Because I keep them for my records, which I'm sure a lot of people will do.) Then I logged off my smugmug page (Which I haven't done in 3 months), went to the dgrin comments page, logged on. Uploaded my photo for a second time (to the dgrin challenge page), forgot to sign it, went back and added that.

Then, I wanted to comment on someone elses photo that was there, but I was logged in as "dgrin" since I had just uploaded a photo, so once I submitted the comment, when it appeared, "dgrin" was listed as the comment author, not "dugmar" since I was signed in as "dgrin" in order to upload. So I had to go back, delete the comment, log BACK out from the dgrin sign-in name, :wxwax try to log BACK in as myself (dugmar), but I forget my passwords since I haven't logged off my smugmug page in so long (see 3 months above), request my password be sent to me, get it, log on as dugmar and finally leave the comment so the correct author was posted. Even if I had got it all right the first time, it is still a lot of steps compared to the old way.

Phew... I fear for the newbies...

Doug

cmr164

Aug-25-2004, 07:02 AM

Okay,

So I did two things on the new page today. 1.) uploaded a photo, 2.) commented on someone elses photo. This is what I had to do...

First, upload the photo to my smugmug page (Because I keep them for my records, which I'm sure a lot of people will do.) Then I logged off, went to the dgrin comments page, logged on. Uploaded my photo for a second time (to the dgrin challenge page), forgot to sign it, went back and added that.

Then, I wanted to comment on someone elses photo that was there, but I was logged in as "dgrin" since I had just uploaded a photo, so once I submitted the comment, when it appeared, "dgrin" was listed comment author, not "dugmar" since I was signed in as "dgrin" in order to upload. So I had to go back, delete the comment, log BACK out from the dgrin sign-in name, log BACK in as myself (dugmar) and finally leave the comment so the correct author was posted. Even if I had got it all right the first time, it is still a lot of steps compared to the old way.

Phew... I fear for the newbies...

Doug
Doug;
I agree that this is awkward for the newbies and maybe I would have tried a different way to fix the problem but I really appreciate the fact that Andy is trying to rectify the problem with C&C and I'll certainly try to help work through issues. As I see it, Andy recognises underlying issues and is dealing with them.

dugmar

Aug-25-2004, 07:10 AM

Doug;
I agree that this is awkward for the newbies and maybe I would have tried a different way to fix the problem but I really appreciate the fact that Andy is trying to rectify the problem with C&C and I'll certainly try to help work through issues. As I see it, Andy recognises underlying issues and is dealing with them.No doubt about it, I should have said it earlier, thank you Andy for trying to make this a more user friendly environment. Only time will tell if this new format will work out. Thanks Charles for opening my eyes to that as well.

Doug

dugmar

Aug-25-2004, 08:55 AM

I wanted to comment on someone elses photo that was there, but I was logged in as "dgrin" since I had just uploaded a photo, so once I submitted the comment, when it appeared, "dgrin" was listed as the comment author, not "dugmar" since I was signed in as "dgrin" in order to upload. So I had to go back, delete the comment, log BACK out from the dgrin sign-in name, :wxwax try to log BACK in as myself (dugmar), but I forget my passwords since I haven't logged off my smugmug page in so long (see 3 months above), request my password be sent to me, get it, log on as dugmar and finally leave the comment so the correct author was posted.
Perfect example of what I was saying earlier right here (click link below.) Four people left comments for Andy's photo under the dgrin sign in name, so these comments are pretty much anonymous. And how do you reply to a comment that has been left? There is no way to quote someone in a reply and then post it without cutting and pasting? How do I edit a comment after posting? The only option it gives me is delete.

http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/201635/1/7711449/Large#comment

Snappy posted the same concerns.... I'm trying to read the comments. Very confusing. Don't know who wrote a bunch of them. How can I comment back. Remember to put your name in the blank or sign your comment,Please. Don't understand what your doing with the link back to a thread. What is the purpose. Sounds too hard anyway. >

I'm voicing concerns about this new format because I'm worried that it might scare a few of the regulars away and for sure it will scare off some first timers that haven't posted before. Andy, recently you said you wanted more participation in these challenges, I just hope this new format doesn't have the opposite affect.

Doug

Andy

Aug-25-2004, 12:04 PM

this warms my heart: click here (http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/201635/1/7727198/Large)

good, honest feedback. well received, and the poster (evil eggplant) seems to have benefited immensely from the comments.

thanks guys this is really great stuff.

dugmar

Aug-25-2004, 12:30 PM

good, honest feedback. well received, and the poster (evil eggplant) seems to have benefited immensely from the comments.

Sorry Andy, but... What? Did I miss something? The evil eggplant thing went right over my head. Please explain.

PerezDesignGroup

Aug-25-2004, 12:33 PM

Sorry Andy, but... What? Did I miss something? The evil eggplant thing went right over my head. Please explain. 'evil eggplant' is the name of photographer of the photo. :thumb

damonff

Aug-25-2004, 12:45 PM

He posts a lot over at dpReview...check his stuff out...it's good.'evil eggplant' is the name of photographer of the photo. :thumb

Andy

Aug-25-2004, 01:09 PM

guys, it doesn't matter if you're logged in as "dgrin" (becuase you uploaded a photo) or your own smugmug name (becuase you've been logged into your smugmug account, or you are simply "guest" or no name!

leave a comment, and simply add your name at the end of the comment.

like this:
------------------------------
great pic, i think you could benefit from some levels adjustment, a crop (upper left) and perhaps a boost in saturation. compelling subject, great title, too :-) -- andy
-----------------------------

let's not overcomplicate things, okay? i've already got 911 on speed dial for a number of cities around the country :D

rutt

Aug-25-2004, 01:20 PM

I've asked this question twice before, but I don't think anyone noticed it in the heat of the moment. I think we can easily set things up so that any of us can submit a photo without having to logout/login. I asked Baldy for a smugmug feature to allow just this. Apparently the feature already exists for pro accounts. Here is the thread (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2240) with my request and his response.

So the (slight) refinement would be to make a dgrin challenges pro account with an obvious password actually given on the top of the page (or maybe an empty password would even work.)

It's not a huge thing, but it would simplify the procedure of submitting for comments and critiques. And from what I understand, it doesn't use any nonexistent technology.

So is there a reason not to do this?

Andy

Aug-25-2004, 01:37 PM

rutt,

hang in there :D i'm workin' on it. been a few fires to put out first, eh? need to make sure that all the players are happy. not easy!

thanks for your attention here, i appreciate it.

I've asked this question twice before, but I don't think anyone noticed it in the heat of the moment. I think we can easily set things up so that any of us can submit a photo without having to logout/login. I asked Baldy for a smugmug feature to allow just this. Apparently the feature already exists for pro accounts. Here is the thread (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2240) with my request and his response.

So the (slight) refinement would be to make a dgrin challenges pro account with an obvious password actually given on the top of the page (or maybe an empty password would even work.)

It's not a huge thing, but it would simplify the procedure of submitting for comments and critiques. And from what I understand, it doesn't use any nonexistent technology.

So is there a reason not to do this?

rutt

Aug-25-2004, 01:54 PM

... along with Charles and Erik. So I can't help thinking of refinements to make the C&C system work better. Unfortunately, some involve a "small matter of software" and I don't think the smugmug people are in the business of hacking on the dgrin software, which doesn't make any money for them.

I very much like the system of having a gallery of shots posted for C&C and comments specific to each shot. I like to critique and it makes it easier to do by a lot. On the other hand, submission is a little harder and some people (not me) miss the emoticons and the threaded nature of the threads.

Here is a case where I think FM has it right, at least from a technical point of view. People enter a photo into a challenge by starting a new thread in the appropriate forum with a special topic. So to enter a photo into WA #120, you have a subject like "#120: Fire & Ice" The post must contain one URL, the location of the image. Some piece of software notices these thread starters and adds the images to a gallery of entries to the challenge. You can then click on one of these images in the gallery and be taken to the appropriate thread.

I think something like this could address the issue of making it more easy to enter and comment. It would return some of the old feel of things because the comments would be dgrin style, not smugmug style.

How hard is this to program? The right way, for someone who knows the PHP internals of dgrin? Not hard, I'd guess. I'd be willing to do it, but Baldy has shown a marked disinclinition to allow me to hack out new features for him (and I can easily understand not letting a wild man such as myself inside the delecate workings of his machine.) It could be done as an external kludge in a couple if days I think, by writing a program that scans the threads via http and looks for those special titles. I know how to do a lot of the rest after that.

But as Andy says, we have to get ourselves over the hump first. I'd hate to lose Ginger, she really has given us a lot and her photographic growth has been pretty amazing.

Still I'm an engineer and I can't help optimizing and inventing.

rutt

Aug-25-2004, 02:05 PM

The challenges gallery is set up with no download allowed. That makes it hard to get a copy of a shot and edit it. Perhaps we want to go this way. FM requires special permission to do this. But I doubt it was intentional. Since comments seem to allow arbitrary HTML, doing this and reposting an edit is feasible. Please can we turn off the download restrictions on this gallery?

spockling

Aug-25-2004, 02:09 PM

rutt
I very much like the system of having a gallery of shots posted for C&C and comments specific to each shot. I like to critique and it makes it easier to do by a lot. On the other hand, submission is a little harder and some people (not me) miss the emoticons and the threaded nature of the threads.

Here is a case where I think FM has it right, at least from a technical point of view. People enter a photo into a challenge by starting a new thread in the appropriate forum with a special topic. So to enter a photo into WA #120, you have a subject like "#120: Fire & Ice" The post must contain one URL, the location of the image. Some piece of software notices these thread starters and adds the images to a gallery of entries to the challenge. You can then click on one of these images in the gallery and be taken to the appropriate thread.

Rutt, I Think you nailed it here. Although the current system(new) has some much needed order, I don't think it can survive in the long run. It's just too much flipping back and forth between two sites.

My 2 cents.....

ginger_55

Aug-25-2004, 02:20 PM

pathfinder

Aug-25-2004, 02:38 PM

I would like to ask a serious, non confrontational question. Losing me may or may not happen. Where can I go? Does anyone know of anyplace that exists like this? As it used to be.

I would like that glimmer of hope. You engineer people and busy people have had your "hope". Can anyone suggest some place for me to go? Nicely.

ginger
Ginger, Ginger - just come join us here http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/201635/1

Just click on the image yoiu want to comment on - if you are already signed in to your own smugmug acct, you do not even have to sign your comments becasue you are already recognized by smugmug. It really is easy - I think it will work out. You can even go back to writing in "smile" again :thumb Just give it a try.

PerezDesignGroup

Aug-25-2004, 02:41 PM

I would like to ask a serious, non confrontational question. Losing me may or may not happen. Where can I go? Does anyone know of anyplace that exists like this? As it used to be.

I would like that glimmer of hope. You engineer people and busy people have had your "hope". Can anyone suggest some place for me to go? Nicely.

ginger
The only photo sites with challenges that I'm familiar with are...

http://www.dpchallenge.com (pics need to be withint challenge dates)
http://www.pixeladdiction.com (just launched 1st Flower contest yesterday and any pic is accepted)

As far as the same format here...I don't know of any place that offers that...Sorry.

Andy

Aug-25-2004, 03:28 PM

ginger, dear,

your hope is right here, at dgrin challenges. we're *trying* this out. who knows, we could have a different format in a month! let's work with this, and see how it goes. your contribution and competition is wanted, needed and welcome here.

now get out there and shoot some more song titles!

read my other threads re: ease of use, names, signing critiques, etc.

lynnma

Aug-25-2004, 05:21 PM

GREAPER

Aug-25-2004, 05:49 PM

I'm still trying to figure out how to delete one of my now three photos in the cc forum. Is it not possible? It probably is but I'm very dense. If anyone knows? please tell me?? :dunno :scratch :wxwax :D
Correct me if I am wrong but deleting a photo from the gallery will also delete the comments attached to it?

rutt

Aug-25-2004, 06:01 PM

Correct me if I am wrong but deleting a photo from the gallery will also delete the comments attached to it?
Since I was able to login as the owner to the gallery, I was able to make two changes that I think are for the good:

Turned on "originals" to enable downloading photos from the gallery. I think this is what we want, as it will enable edits.
Added a new gallery, Other->Trash Can. Just move your trace to here for now. (I don't know why delete doesn't work.) But with the Trash Can gallery, nothing including comments will be lost.

pathfinder

Aug-25-2004, 06:07 PM

Since I was able to login as the owner to the gallery, I was able to make two changes that I think are for the good:

Turned on "originals" to enable downloading photos from the gallery. I think this is what we want, as it will enable edits.
Added a new gallery, Other->Trash Can. Just move your trace to here for now. (I don't know why delete doesn't work.) But with the Trash Can gallery, nothing including comments will be lost.
Rutt, I have been thinking about the dgrin.smugmug.com challenge and critique site and, for those of us with smugmug accounts, it seems redundant. We could just post a link here linking our own smugmug acct and the comments could be made in our own comments section of our galleries. We could each create a Challenge Critique gallery and post our own pictures there and guests could post their comments there - Then we would not have to upload our images to dgrin.smugmug.com. Do you see any downside to this? Of course, those dgrinners without a smugmug account would have to use dgrin.smugmug.com. Just an alternative thought:dunno

lynnma

Aug-25-2004, 07:09 PM

Rutt, I have been thinking about the dgrin.smugmug.com challenge and critique site and, for those of us with smugmug accounts, it seems redundant. We could just post a link here linking our own smugmug acct and the comments could be made in our own comments section of our galleries. We could each create a Challenge Critique gallery and post our own pictures there and guests could post their comments there - Then we would not have to upload our images to dgrin.smugmug.com. Do you see any downside to this? Of course, those dgrinners without a smugmug account would have to use dgrin.smugmug.com. Just an alternative thought:dunnohmmm thats an interesting thought...:wink

Andy

Aug-25-2004, 07:13 PM

then the comments are all over the place, not in one single gallery - no i like everything in one place. what's the big deal about loading a pic twice? it's not really more than a half minute, eh?

Rutt, I have been thinking about the dgrin.smugmug.com challenge and critique site and, for those of us with smugmug accounts, it seems redundant. We could just post a link here linking our own smugmug acct and the comments could be made in our own comments section of our galleries. We could each create a Challenge Critique gallery and post our own pictures there and guests could post their comments there - Then we would not have to upload our images to dgrin.smugmug.com. Do you see any downside to this? Of course, those dgrinners without a smugmug account would have to use dgrin.smugmug.com. Just an alternative thought:dunno

Andy

Aug-25-2004, 07:17 PM

i'm sorry, but i have originals turned off. this is to protect folks. you can work on 800x600, the -L size. please, please don't make such changes. delete doesn't work for a very good reason. i have enabled a "guest" password, so you all can UPLOAD photos only. if you have a new version to show, based on critique, then load up the new version. if you delete or move photos, then the benefit of others learnign from the comments on your photo is lost.

please, no changes to this gallery.

Since I was able to login as the owner to the gallery, I was able to make two changes that I think are for the good:

Turned on "originals" to enable downloading photos from the gallery. I think this is what we want, as it will enable edits.
Added a new gallery, Other->Trash Can. Just move your trace to here for now. (I don't know why delete doesn't work.) But with the Trash Can gallery, nothing including comments will be lost.

Andy

Aug-25-2004, 07:25 PM

as benevolent host, i decree that the stars, for the purposes of the comments critiques thread, mean nothing. please don't infer that if you have a five-star on a comment that it means anything. five stars is the default, first of all. secondly, well, the stars aren't the point, are they? pay attention to the actuall comments, and don't worry about the stars.

i'd ask everyone to just leave the stars at the default.

thanks in advance for your cooperation :D

rutt

Aug-26-2004, 12:47 AM

i'm sorry, but i have originals turned off. this is to protect folks. you can work on 800x600, the -L size. please, please don't make such changes. delete doesn't work for a very good reason. i have enabled a "guest" password, so you all can UPLOAD photos only. if you have a new version to show, based on critique, then load up the new version. if you delete or move photos, then the benefit of others learnign from the comments on your photo is lost.

please, no changes to this gallery.
With originals turned off, I can't download *anything* at all. Isn't there some inbetween so we can get at them to edit.

I thought my delete substitute was a good one. Don't delete, just move to the trash can gallery. That way nothing is lost but clutter of out of date shots. You can always look in the trash can gallery.

dugmar

Aug-26-2004, 03:21 AM

Rutt, I Think you nailed it here. Although the current system(new) has some much needed order, I don't think it can survive in the long run. It's just too much flipping back and forth between two sites.

My 2 cents.....My 2 cents as well. I agree 100%. The immediate posting/commenting/replying is gone with this new system. Plus the warm and fuzzy feeling of the forum community is gone. Posts are anonymous for the most part, it is hard to reply to them or figure out who they are, avatars are gone, etc. Efforts are doubled to upload, it's nearly impossible to download a photo for editing to show examples, etc...

Doug

ginger_55

Aug-26-2004, 03:36 AM

gubbs

Aug-26-2004, 03:45 AM

I posted a portrait of me, I don't have a car. The title was to be You Don't Bring me Flowers Anymore.

I never title my photos in my gallery. I don't know how to put the title up. I tried, and just titled the gallery, took that down.

I actually, really, do not, actually, know what html is, it works or it doesn't, that has been my way of operating. I have often said that I work on a need to know basis.

Andy's instructions are "use the html tag to make a new line for your name." That is after titling it. I can't do either. And I don't know what an html tag is, or where.

Could someone help me with this or send me to where I could find out how to do it.

ginger Hey ginger,
I've just done it for you, because I needed to do it to enable me to write the instructions:D
you must log in as dgrin
select your picture
in the drop down menu that appears underneath select "edit caption single"
in the box underneath I typed:
"You don't bring me flowers" 
ginger

I then hit the update button. :D
give me a shout if you need more help

You can still go back and edit what I've written if you want to change anything!!

dugmar

Aug-26-2004, 03:55 AM

you must log in as dgrin
select your picture
in the drop down menu that appears underneath select "edit caption single"
in the box underneath I typed:
"You don't bring me flowers" 
gingerWhere as before, you could just simply hit the reply button in the thread and type the title. Your name was already signed for you in the left column. This is another step we need to take in the new format. Fine for the few of us that are familiar with this, but for new members, how do you think they will feel about having to remember all of these steps? Please, lets go back to the old format! This is going to do one of two things; 1.) Divide the group, or 2.) Scare a lot of the group away.

I'm curious, and I know this is new and all... But, this challenge is already 4 days old and there are less than 10 submissions to the C&C page. How many is this compared to previous challenges in the same time frame?

Doug

ginger_55

Aug-26-2004, 03:55 AM

I think someone did it for me, thank you.

I did figure out how to log in, had trouble the second time, after going to my site to find out how to do this.

So I now know how to do that, and you all have a portrait of me, all I had at midnight, or so, last night. I have always loved the title to that song, relate to it, also. Unfortunately, I can't stand, or understand, Barbra Streisand's voice, but the title did come to mind.

g

Where was the thing? I do not know that, since someone did it for me.

gubbs

Aug-26-2004, 03:57 AM

ginger_55

Aug-26-2004, 03:58 AM

Thanks, Gubbs. Is the br thing easy to find?

g

gubbs

Aug-26-2004, 04:04 AM

Thanks, Gubbs. Is the br thing easy to find?

g yep

I just typed:-

"You don't bring me flowers" 
ginger

in the caption box.

the is an html tag, it doesn't show on the screen it just tells the computer to put a carriage return in. It doesn't matter too much, don't worry

lynnma

Aug-26-2004, 04:17 AM

Thanks, Gubbs. Is the br thing easy to find?

g'Ginger listen... the html is just a computer language thats hidden from view. Don't worry about it, you don't have to learn it. When you type your comments and put ... because of the little arrows on each side of the br (short for line break) it does not show in the final commets. Only the fact that there is a break there.
I know it's hard to read through all this stuff but we are trying to help. Don't worry about it, it's only computer stuff. Just for fun.. type in a comment and type a couple of times and then update.. your'll see what happens.. you can always go back and change it.
:D

ginger_55

Aug-26-2004, 04:55 AM

'Ginger listen... the html is just a computer language thats hidden from view. Don't worry about it, you don't have to learn it. When you type your comments and put ... because of the little arrows on each side of the br (short for line break) it does not show in the final commets. Only the fact that there is a break there.
I know it's hard to read through all this stuff but we are trying to help. Don't worry about it, it's only computer stuff. Just for fun.. type in a comment and type a couple of times and then update.. your'll see what happens.. you can always go back and change it.
:D
Thanks, Lynn, I just put in some appropriate lyrics using and it worked.
I have a lot going on, maybe I should have been an actress. I could have looked happy if I wanted. Bill had the radiation implants for prostate cancer, nothing went right on that, my car broke, my phone doesn't work. I haven't been able to shoot since Thursday. Bill is back at work, I am waiting on my car. The phone will take a bit longer, have to order, and pay for, an adaptor for the hard of hearing like I used to have, and finagle the situation with verizon.

I took my dogs for a walk on my oldest dog's third birthday. Bill usually does the walk, but he was out of town, (with his Depends), and I thought Skye deserved this on his birthday. I was feeling quite good about myself, and I looked in on dGrin and discovered the changes. I do poorly with change under the best of circumstances.

I am kind of just hanging on. I wake up at 6 AM.......... just a bad time.
Thanks.
Lynn, I would like that picture to be good. I had set the ec, remember those initials from Andy, well, I had set them at minus 1, should I reset, redo, etc.

Also, I got a book from Overstock last night, didn't open it til just now. It is called, Digital Photography Hacks. It is too big to put in my camera case, maybe, but it looks great for all sorts of situations. I was reading on night time photography, it will be supportive in the next challenge. Not covered heavily, but enough to do the trick. I would recommend it. I ordered it from
Overstock.com on Aug 16th and it came yesterday, Aug 25th, pretty good for cut rate place. I have had very good luck with them. I paid $17.50. It retails for $29.95.

ginger

PerezDesignGroup

Aug-26-2004, 05:33 AM

Could someone help me with this or send me to where I could find out how to do it.

Here's something i put together in photoshop real quick for future reference. Hope it helps.

lynnma

Aug-26-2004, 05:34 AM

Good Ginger, glad you are back on yer feet..

Remember.. this too shall pass.. just "roll with it baby" (everything is a song title to me today) :lust

lynnma

Aug-26-2004, 05:35 AM

Here's something i put together in photoshop real quick for future reference. Hope it helps.Great job!! I'm sure it'll help those with zilch html.. :clap

gubbs

Aug-26-2004, 05:40 AM

Ginger

looks like you've cracked it:thumb

PerezDesignGroup

Aug-26-2004, 05:45 AM

Final example in real time...

Andy

Aug-26-2004, 05:46 AM

of course you can download! make the photo size large - this is 800 pixels on the long side. right click, and save the photo and ps it to your hearts content :D

With originals turned off, I can't download *anything* at all. Isn't there some inbetween so we can get at them to edit.

I thought my delete substitute was a good one. Don't delete, just move to the trash can gallery. That way nothing is lost but clutter of out of date shots. You can always look in the trash can gallery.

Andy

Aug-26-2004, 06:03 AM

first of all, thanks for all the detailed help by you guys that are taking the time to provide it - for captions, etc ... okay it's something new for some of us to learn, and no ginger, i'm not only referring to you i promise :D there are plenty of folks that don't know a "break" from an "italic or bold" so this is excellent stuff that we're learning, and it'll help lots of folks.

does it take a bit longer than the regular c&c thread for the critiquee to put up his or her shots? yeah. but after doing it i think, a couple of times, you'll have it down to about a minute or so per photo, and that's not too much to ask in the long run, is it?

can we have community spirit? camaraderie? back and forth? you bet we can. the comments flow sequentially. they are on each photo. versus the old c&c thread, where if you missed a day or two, you had a lot of difficulty following along - so for those folks that can only "pop in" once every day or two, this format is going to be really a boon to them.

remember, sign your comments. don't worry about if you are logged in as your name, or as dgrin, or as whatever - it doesn't matter so long as after your comment and or critique, you simply sign your name, like this -- andy

i really think this can work - look at evil eggplant's bodie school room pic example - it shows that this works (except he forgot to put his name down as author of the photo, but he won't do that next time)

keep up the good work everyone, keep shooting those song titles and i promise that after this challenge, we'll assess how this method worked out for everyone, and see what we can do to make it better. we will have a vote towards the end of the challenge after this one, and you will all have a chance to determine which method we use going forward.

thanks again for your support, help, and participation as we all try something new.

gubbs

Aug-26-2004, 06:12 AM

Rutts revised "castles in the sand" comes up next to the original, I think that's a ++ :thumb.
Did you have to re-sort the gallery Rutt?

lynnma

Aug-26-2004, 06:13 AM

Final example in real time...
Arrhuh! thanks...

rutt

Aug-26-2004, 07:50 AM

Rutts revised "castles in the sand" comes up next to the original, I think that's a ++ :thumb.
Did you have to re-sort the gallery Rutt?
Yes, I used bulk easy move new to move it next to the original.

ginger_55

Aug-26-2004, 10:12 AM

Thanks so much for the HTML stuff. I was totally baffled. It is amazing what some of us don't know that others take for granted that we know. I am the same way. Woe be to my husband when he doesn't "know" something obvious, which I guess html is.

I will print everything out.

I just got back from taking pictures.

Lynn, I could use some song titles. I have the artists I like I hate to just hunt for titles from a rapper or something.

I have old dogs, shrimp boats, Shem Creek (restaurants, shrimp boats, fish, pellicans, kayaks), and a few marsh photos. Songs would be appreciated.

ginger

rutt

Aug-26-2004, 10:42 AM

Lynn, I could use some song titles. I have the artists I like I hate to just hunt for titles from a rapper or something.

I have old dogs, shrimp boats, Shem Creek (restaurants, shrimp boats, fish, pellicans, kayaks), and a few marsh photos. Songs would be appreciated.

ginger
A great source is www.allmusic.com. New Orleans music sounds like a good bet. What about Duke Ellington's "Gonna Go Fishin'" It's on this great Dr. John record, "Duke Elegant"

ginger_55

Aug-26-2004, 11:17 AM

A great source is www.allmusic.com (http://www.allmusic.com/). New Orleans music sounds like a good bet. What about Duke Ellington's "Gonna Go Fishin'" It's on this great Dr. John record, "Duke Elegant"
Thanks, Rutt, gonna check out that Dr John thing, no matter, but sure I can use it, just don't know on what.

Have an eye doctor appt I had forgotten about. Drives me nuts, just uploaded my photos and they look good.

Want to get one and a song title, can I put one up without a title and ask for suggestions??

That would not be now, though, as I have to crate the dogs and leave.

It is cloudy here today, off and on rain, that is why I was shooting at noon, deal with the grey at any time.

later,
ginger

All suggestions still taken. Some are kinda weird to tital, such as a bunch of colorful kayaks, and a man working on his porch on shem creek?? That is valuable property, and it is a shack, just have to show you all the photo.

Andy

Aug-26-2004, 11:22 AM

it's a great song. louis really belts it and scats ... and bing really croons

look it up :D

Sandy

Aug-26-2004, 05:41 PM

Andy what an ingenious idea, this works better for me. I was overwhelmed with the comments thread and felt bad that I couldn't read through everything.

This is much cleaner. :clap

Bryan

Aug-27-2004, 07:06 AM

I will be honest, the Critiques threads were getting so long that I was losing interest. I could not keep up with 30, 50 , 70 pages of comments. I wanted to learn from everyones process, but it was so difficult to see who was talking about which picture that I gave up. When I would post a picure, I would have to sort though 10 pages of comments to find 2 or 3 on my picture to see how I could improve my work. That became very fusterating.

ture I do enjoy the conversation about the pictures, but I was no longer learning from everyones process. Threads that long were just too much to follow. I hope we can have a discussion thread about the comments and critiques, but seeing the comments listed under the photo now, makes it an easier learning experience.

Andy

Aug-27-2004, 07:28 AM

thanks bryan, for your comments.

i also want to point out, that one of the things that happens in the c&c process, is folks will put up v2, v3, v4 of their pics - and so we see the progression.... we'll NOT delete the old versions, becuase it's so great for all of us to see the comments with the progression of the pics. look in the gallery at spockling's airplane rainbow shots for an example of what i mean.

use the move tool, when you are signed in as dgrin/dgrinchallenge, and you can move your new versions next to your old versions of your same pics.

what a learning tool!

I will be honest, the Critiques threads were getting so long that I was losing interest. I could not keep up with 30, 50 , 70 pages of comments. I wanted to learn from everyones process, but it was so difficult to see who was talking about which picture that I gave up. When I would post a picure, I would have to sort though 10 pages of comments to find 2 or 3 on my picture to see how I could improve my work. That became very fusterating.

ture I do enjoy the conversation about the pictures, but I was no longer learning from everyones process. Threads that long were just too much to follow. I hope we can have a discussion thread about the comments and critiques, but seeing the comments listed under the photo now, makes it an easier learning experience.

lynnma

Aug-27-2004, 07:32 AM

thanks bryan, for your comments.

i also want to point out, that one of the things that happens in the c&c process, is folks will put up v2, v3, v4 of their pics - and so we see the progression.... we'll NOT delete the old versions, becuase it's so great for all of us to see the comments with the progression of the pics. look in the gallery at spockling's airplane rainbow shots for an example of what i mean.

use the move tool, when you are signed in as dgrin/dgrinchallenge, and you can move your new versions next to your old versions of your same pics.

what a learning tool!I must admit.. I'm much happier going to the new cc thread. I'ts not as daunting and much clearer. I also feel a sense of settling with the folks posting there, I think we are getting more comfy with it. I'm enjoying being able to see Spocks work for instance, his three pics. with the improvements, I can flip back and forth so easily to view the difference.. This change is a def. improvement for me. :clap :clap :clap

ginger_55

Aug-27-2004, 11:51 AM

How did Rutt make his shots line up in a progression. Sorry, I don't understand.

I want to move some in for the songs, without retyping the songs, is that possible?

ginger

rutt

Aug-27-2004, 12:43 PM

How did Rutt make his shots line up in a progression. Sorry, I don't understand.

I want to move some in for the songs, without retyping the songs, is that possible?

ginger
When you are logged in as "dgrin" you will find a little box (a pull down menu) under your the selected photo (in this case it doesn't matter which photo is selected.) On the right of the box is an downward pointing arrow. Click on it. You will get a rather longish menu and toward the bottom you will find an item "Move (Bulk, Easy, NEW!!)". You might have to use the a slide on the side of the menu to find this. Anyway, select "Move (Bulk, Easy, NEW!!)" and then you can point at a picture and use the arrow keys to move it around in the gallery. You can move as many of them around as you like until you think it looks right. Then you have to click the "update" button in the help box on the upper left to finalize.

Hope that helps.

Baldy, what happens if more than one person does this at once?

ginger_55

Aug-27-2004, 01:49 PM

Thanks, Rutt,

ginger

rutt

Aug-27-2004, 03:23 PM

i also want to point out, that one of the things that happens in the c&c process, is folks will put up v2, v3, v4 of their pics - and so we see the progression.... we'll NOT delete the old versions, becuase it's so great for all of us to see the comments with the progression of the pics. look in the gallery at spockling's airplane rainbow shots for an example of what i mean.

use the move tool, when you are signed in as dgrin/dgrinchallenge, and you can move your new versions next to your old versions of your same pics.

what a learning tool!
Andy, I get it. Not deleting the old versions is a good idea. I suppose if someone posts something and then really regrets it, s/he can always get you to delete it. It might be good if you shared this super power with another moderator or so.

On the other hand, the original download thing... Let me make the case. Because this gallery is just for challenge entries, don't upload anything there that you don't want downloaded. I love people to have accesss to my full sized originals and find that most people like to share them with me. But if I had one I didn't want to share, I could resize before uploading. So please can't we turn on original downloads and leave it up to the indivdual uploaders what they want to make public?

Andy

Aug-27-2004, 07:10 PM

Andy, I get it. Not deleting the old versions is a good idea. I suppose if someone posts something and then really regrets it, s/he can always get you to delete it. It might be good if you shared this super power with another moderator or so.

On the other hand, the original download thing... Let me make the case. Because this gallery is just for challenge entries, don't upload anything there that you don't want downloaded. I love people to have accesss to my full sized originals and find that most people like to share them with me. But if I had one I didn't want to share, I could resize before uploading. So please can't we turn on original downloads and leave it up to the indivdual uploaders what they want to make public?

i hear you, rutt. - but - i'm worried. many folks who use smugmug are not used to resizing 800x600 and i'd hate to see someone load up a fs file and then have it pinched, and see it on some stock agency website in two weeks time. you can ask for a link for a fs file, in your comment maybe? and then the shooter can reply with a link - if they chose - personally i worry about things like this - it's *your* work and yeah while i see the benefit or sharing for ps purposes, and learning / sharing etc ... we also should balanced the needs of protecting the artist's work. so maybe you could ask for the fs file, if they want to give it, they can provide a link back to their smugmug gallery eh? would that work as a compromise solution?

rutt

Aug-28-2004, 01:17 AM

would that work as a compromise solution?
That's been what I've been doing and it's basically what happens on FM. It works OK, but loses some immediency. Because of my previous points, I'd like to hear a few other voices here. OK, Andy? Let's see if there is a consensus out there?

Andy

Aug-28-2004, 03:22 AM

That's been what I've been doing and it's basically what happens on FM. It works OK, but loses some immediency. Because of my previous points, I'd like to hear a few other voices here. OK, Andy? Let's see if there is a consensus out there?

is probably for you, b/c you have ideas etc *now* i understand. the the pics, they belong the shooters, right? so let's see what happens :D

ginger_55

Aug-28-2004, 06:14 AM

I think that anytime a concern about something like this is raised, one has to err on the conservative side. (And I am not, believe me, a conservative, but situations can't make for policy.)

I know I read at least one concerned post re the originals being available, or seen.

The problem, as I see it, is if something bad were to happen, Rutt, it would fall kind of in your lap and more directly in dgrin's lap.

Perhaps, I don't know if this could happen, and I don't know how you get the originals anyway, from the "PSd" posted photos, but perhaps, we could have a choice as to whether each of us wanted this turned on or off individually. I don't know if that is feasable. And I don't talk PC speak, so I don't understand a lot of what is said.

My photos are up for grabs. I would rather take a chance than wall them off, just more work for me to stand over them and guard them, and I have never worried about being pirated.

So I would make mine available. But perhaps it could be a legal issue if they were made available, and I was not aware of it. If I were aware of it, and I did not want them made available, I would not post anything. So, that is not an answer, as I see it.

Anyone can have mine, I don't care, in most circumstances, that I know of. I do have some password galleries, for my own purposes, but if I put them on here, I just do not expect to have my photos stolen (sp?) and sold, I don't live my life like that. I might if I had experienced something like that, though.

So I would say, for dgrin's, or smugmug's sake, that it is a risk that they can't take, shouldn't, take. If we could individually agree, that seems OK to me. I would agree.

ginger

Perhaps you could add a spell check to the system, though.:D

DavidTO

Aug-28-2004, 06:40 AM

ginger_55

Aug-28-2004, 07:22 AM

Bodwick

Aug-28-2004, 08:34 AM

the c & c thread *is* getting a bit unmanageable. let's try something new, okay?

go to www.dgrin.smugmug.com (http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com/)

at bottom of page, click "login"
username is "dgrin" (no quotes)
use guest password "dgrinchallenge" (no quotes)

upload your photos. comment and critique away using the comments button right there in the gallery. don't forget to add a caption (title) to your photo, and put your name on it to. use the html tag to make a new line for your name.

for example

"how much is that doggie in the window" 
by jane challenger

*** if you are a smugmug user, you must first "logout" of your own account before you can "login" as a guest user on the dgrin.smugmug.com account.

the password is dgrinchallenge

have fun, kids.

A few idea's to make it easy to link to the 'new system'

Shortcut at the top of the main page. Replace a pic with a link to the main dgrin page http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com/ and also maybe a direct link to the relevent page for posts and reviews eg 20(at the moment)

In the link place text explaining how to 'login' to post and include the Username and password.

Username change from dgrin to dg (lazy type)

Password change from dgrinchallenge to dgc(lazy type)

eg.
Post here for challange 20
and make your comments
also Review previous winners
Username:- dg
Password:- dgc

All in a nice little box at the top of the forums.

I hope that makes sense....:dunno

lynnesite

Aug-28-2004, 08:44 AM

i hear you, rutt. - but - i'm worried. many folks who use smugmug are not used to resizing 800x600 and i'd hate to see someone load up a fs file and then have it pinched, and see it on some stock agency website in two weeks time. you can ask for a link for a fs file, in your comment maybe? and then the shooter can reply with a link - if they chose - personally i worry about things like this - it's *your* work and yeah while i see the benefit or sharing for ps purposes, and learning / sharing etc ... we also should balanced the needs of protecting the artist's work. so maybe you could ask for the fs file, if they want to give it, they can provide a link back to their smugmug gallery eh? would that work as a compromise solution?

I'm probably late on this but I do not want my originals released, ever.

The ones I do let go (like my foal photos) are on 1024x768 postcards where the image itself is a lot smaller than that. What can I say? I'm not willing to see the stuff show up on webshots or other heinous non-authorized place.

Everything makes more sense now that I've hopped back over here to dgrin to see the nuances of using the smugmug gallery, like moving changed images side by side and the basic html for captioning properly.

Thanks, Andy for working on this (and Rutt for your well-reasoned suggestions).

Lynne

snapapple

Aug-28-2004, 08:47 AM

Ginger and David,

Obout originals being pinched - Sometimes we tend to thing of "all of us" here at dGrin as "one happy family". It does seem so. But, there are over 700 members, most of whom we don't know. The site is also open to the public to view without even registering. (millions of people, some not so honest) Someone can see your smugmug address on this site and go to your Smugmug site. Once there, they can view everything you have public. This is great for publicity. However, you would not want the original full size photo available. Of course people probably don't want pictures of your family. But imagine a stranger seeing Ginger's beautiful marsh shots on her site. The medium or large sizes are not high enough resolution for good prints. They would be all "pixeley". But if the "Original" high resolution size is available, it could get stolen. Someone, in another part of the nation or the world, could download the original file. They could put it on their own site or print it and sell it as their own. They could add a boat or plane or tree and claim it was all original. This same thing could happen on the challenge critique site if originals are available.

I agree with Andy that the best way to give someone access to your original file for "workup" is to give them a special place on your Smugmug site. I have done this myself. Put your original file in a password protected gallery and email the password to the person who will have access. This gallery would have the spot checked where you select if originals will be available.It's in "customize gallery".

snapapple

Aug-28-2004, 08:54 AM

A few idea's to make it easy to link to the 'new system'

Shortcut at the top of the main page. Replace a pic with a link to the main dgrin page http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com/ and also maybe a direct link to the relevent page for posts and reviews eg 20(at the moment)

In the link place text explaining how to 'login' to post and include the Username and password.

Username change from dgrin to dg (lazy type)

Password change from dgrinchallenge to dgc(lazy type)

eg.
Post here for challange 20
and make your comments
also Review previous winners
Username:- dg
Password:- dgc

All in a nice little box at the top of the forums.

I hope that makes sense....:dunno

I agree about an easier username and password, especially password. dgrinchallenge is way too long to type.
A direct link is also easier. Great idea. :clap

ginger_55

Aug-28-2004, 09:09 AM

I agree about an easier username and password, especially password. dgrinchallenge is way too long to type.
A direct link is also easier. Great idea. :clap
Me, too, I think that would really help. I am keeping a bunch of windows open just about constantly now, going back and forth. Sometimes I have computer problems, I am not having them now.

When I am having PC problems, anything that is expedient would be a big help and make a difference in use of the system. Also I am on cable, for people on dial up this could make a difference also.

In any case, I would love a direct link, and at this point, I am still keeping a print out of Andy's instructions beside me with the password, address, etc.
I can be slow when I have a bunch of things to remember, and they are all new. Simplification is always best. And a "time" saver.

ginger:D

snapapple

Aug-28-2004, 09:09 AM

and have them go to my gallery, or anywhere. I am trying to learn it, I have the print out put together by PerezDesignGroup.

Could someone help me further with this on that one issue. I have used the symbols on the title line so that "here" should be in italics, just to test my use of these things. The one is easy, but I want to go beyond that.

ginger

It's all spelled out in the realtime white box on page nine. You put your Smugmug address in the www. spot and then type "Here" followed by </a> and you have created a link.
Lookes like this:
<a href="http://www.gingersnap.smugmug.com">Here</a>
:thumb

ginger_55

Aug-28-2004, 09:20 AM

It's all spelled out in the realtime white box on page nine. You put your Smugmug address in the www. spot and then type "Here" followed by </a> and you have created a link.
Lookes like this:
<a href="http://www.gingersnap.smugmug.com">Here</a>
:thumb
Thanks, Snappy, Andy and who all replied to me. I am going to paper clip it all together and see what happens.

I did something wrong when I used the info in the white box, a very valuable box of info, which I am paper clipping with all this.

I don't have time to try it out now, but will try it again this weekend. Thanks for the help.

The sun is coming out, don't know if that is good or bad. For photography, is still early in the day.

ginger

rutt

Aug-28-2004, 09:51 AM

I'm probably late on this but I do not want my originals released, ever.

Thanks, Andy for working on this (and Rutt for your well-reasoned suggestions).

Lynne
I just want to make the point one more time. You control what you upload to the dgrin.smugmug.com gallery. If you don't want originals released, don't upload them there. Then there is absolutely no danger at all, because the originals won't be there. It's actually one of the beauties of the new system. Even if someone managed to break in (as I did the other night, sort of by mistake), the originals wouldn't be there to take.

So if we take this attitude, you upload exactly what you want to make available for others to edit, etc. No more. You can keep originals or not and grant access or not in your own galleries.

I just want everyone to have the facts right when they think about this.

snapapple

Aug-28-2004, 10:04 AM

I just want to make the point one more time. You control what you upload to the dgrin.smugmug.com gallery. If you don't want originals released, don't upload them there. Then there is absolutely no danger at all, because the originals won't be there. It's actually one of the beauties of the new system. Even if someone managed to break in (as I did the other night, sort of by mistake), the originals wouldn't be there to take.

So if we take this attitude, you upload exactly what you want to make available for others to edit, etc. No more. You can keep originals or not and grant access or not in your own galleries.

I just want everyone to have the facts right when they think about this.

We should upload only what we want to make public ie. 600 x 800 images. But, if we direct people to our Smugmug site for originals, we have to be careful what we put there, or how private it is. I always upload the original image there so I can order large prints. I think Ginger may have forgotten about some of the evil that lurks out there in the world. I just want everyone to be safe from harm.
:D

johnnydanger

Aug-28-2004, 07:58 PM

Hmmm... it's not working. The login doesn't work, possibly because when I go to www.dgrin.smugmug.com, I get forwarded to www.smugmug.com.

Drat... and I got some good pics today.

ginger_55

Aug-28-2004, 10:07 PM

We should upload only what we want to make public ie. 600 x 800 images. But, if we direct people to our Smugmug site for originals, we have to be careful what we put there, or how private it is. I always upload the original image there so I can order large prints. I think Ginger may have forgotten about some of the evil that lurks out there in the world. I just want everyone to be safe from harm.
:D
You notice, Snappy......... I actually never knew. I used to have a theory that if someone wanted something on their conscience that bad, kind of go ahead.

I do lock my car doors now. I guess I will have to be more vigilant with my photos, but I have to get around to it. I don't usually put originals there. How does anyone get originals from a photoshopped print. That is kind of confusing to me.

I do put originals there if someone wants to work on them, like please, yes, do my work for me. And they are not under lock and key, I had better watch that.

Can they get the originals if I haven't put them down there?

Rutt, Snappy??

ginger

I went ahead and worked up some photos, I have one song title for this, so might put one up, or two. If I put them up, hehe, check them out.

wxwax

Aug-28-2004, 10:10 PM

johnny, is it still happening? I tried and got to the dgrin page OK. Let me know if you still cannot reach it.

gubbs

Aug-28-2004, 10:22 PM

johnny, is it still happening? I tried and got to the dgrin page OK. Let me know if you still cannot reach it. Me too, no problems

johnnydanger

Aug-29-2004, 01:22 AM

It's working now, thanks.

Andy

Aug-29-2004, 04:06 AM

It's working now, thanks.

and mistype the url, you'll get to the www.smugmug.com homepage :D

cheers

ginger_55

Aug-29-2004, 05:21 PM

I am changing the song to Honky Tonk Angels, suggested by Lynne. We have had no power, have no cable still, am on AOL dial up.
I have looked for comments under each photograph and only one was from Lynne. I don't know whether that means you all don't like them, and don't know what to say, or whether you think ..............????
We are going to watch a DVD, very frustrating day. Our house is not light enough to read in without power, except in one uncomfortable place.

So glad power came on, recharging cell batteries, I had no idea. In that one photo the shrimp boat is headed out to fish in the storm! I actually thought that was a good photo. Bill said that would have been his second choice. I also was not sure I chose the right shot of the girls. The one I did not choose, from further back, it shows more of the surroundings, but I picked the one I could discern in a thumbnail.

Thanks so much Lynn and anyone else who suggested different titles. Honky Tonk Angels suits very well, do you all not think?

ginger

wxwax

Aug-29-2004, 08:58 PM

Yes, a much better title.

Now, how about trying the other way around, thinking of a song title then trying to match a shot to it?

ginger_55

Aug-29-2004, 09:49 PM

Yes, a much better title.

Now, how about trying the other way around, thinking of a song title then trying to match a shot to it?
I started out that way, I have been looking for a photo for Poems, Prayers and Promises since I started. Another one, too. OH yes, Old Dogs, Children and Watermelon Wine. The OLd Dogs song is too hard for me to put together, not having the children. The poems prayers and promises were to be the SPCA dogs that everyone loves to hate.

I have always taken advantage of what was in front of me photographically. I go with preconceived ideas, take it, if it is there, then just start following my nose and my feet. Usually my best is not what I came for. I can't just change that now. I can shoot for the song, again, but it probably won't be my best photo. My dogs were shot for a song. They were time well spent, but not my best photos, IMO.

And, uh, I like what I have. I have put in tremendous hours to get it, them, neglected all sorts of things. Almost broke my hearing aids in the rain, finally left them off and went around totally deaf in a storm, taking photos, standing under any kind of cover to delete some photos, to take more. And sometimes that cover was only turning my back to the wind.

My camera bag is still wet, and I really like what I have.........kind of like you and the stadium. We all know I live to shoot. Well, I shot this assignment, it is those girls, or the Trawler. Now I am ready for the next assignment, which is a week away. I am going to try to force myself to sit on it. Or try turning something I have into food for Cletus workshops, which I have been ignoring.
(I do have to order a tripod, as the person who loans me his tripod is getting nasty about wanting it back. I want one to have in my car, always. For the next assignment.) I am sure I will find a reason to really need a tripod sometime.

Sid, I put a lot into this. More time than some people put in totally. I have twelve folders on my hard drive of photos for songs, some taken specifically for a song. The only thing I would shoot, but you and I know it wouldn't match what I have, is Country Roads. I love that song, and it would be an excuse to find a country road, never see those things anymore. Not here. I just couldn't do that today, all the bridges were closed. And I have some stuff I have to do tomorrow re an appt and getting insurance.

I shoot for a purpose, I always have done that, too, no audience: no photos, not much. Already I have at least two photos to put into the Challenge, no real audience for more. This is true in my whole life, I don't walk and I don't run, unless there is a reason. The best use of my time might be Shenanigans.

ginger

dugmar

Aug-30-2004, 02:43 AM

So I've been watching here and it has turned out that we are posting photos on smugmug but we are still discussing the topic and photos here on dgrin. :scratch

Now we have two places to discuss our photos for each challenge. Yet another step added.

Doug

muddyknees

Aug-30-2004, 07:37 PM

Not sure whether this is appropriate place for this, but...

Has anyone else noticed that after browsing past an image on dgrin.smugmug that has no comment, all subsequent images viewed show the wrong comment?

Not sure where those wrong comments are coming from, maybe general gallery comments?

But it's very confusing when there ARE comments on a thread but the wrong comments are shown - you have to click the "view comments" link to view the correct comment.

I think this is a bug, but has anyone found a workaround? Or is it only happening to me?

-muddyknees

DavidTO

Aug-30-2004, 07:41 PM

muddyknees

Aug-30-2004, 07:51 PM

Are you referring to the comments on the entire gallery? Maybe that's what's causing the confusion.Not sure where they are coming from - its a set of 3 comments, two by Ginette, one by dgrin. The first starts: "While I like the premis of this new thread...."

These same three comments appear whenever I have viewed comments on some photo in the Gallery but then move on to a photo without any comment. Then, even if I move on to a photo that has a comment, the wrong three comments still appear. This is using the "elegant" format, either by clicking on a thumbnail, or by clicking the arrow key to move to the next image.

You don't see this?

-muddyknees

DavidTO

Aug-30-2004, 07:56 PM

Not sure where they are coming from - its a set of 3 comments, two by Ginette, one by dgrin. The first starts: "While I like the premis of this new thread...."

These same three comments appear whenever I have viewed comments on some photo in the Gallery but then move on to a photo without any comment. Then, even if I move on to a photo that has a comment, the wrong three comments still appear. This is using the "elegant" format, either by clicking on a thumbnail, or by clicking the arrow key to move to the next image.

You don't see this?

-muddyknees

Yes, I do. These are comments that were made on the entire gallery, not on specific images. That's the "Comment on Gallery" function. You'll see them wherever you are in the gallery, unless you're viewing image specific comments. Just ignore them (no offense, Ginette!)

ginger_55

Aug-30-2004, 07:57 PM

Not sure where they are coming from - its a set of 3 comments, two by Ginette, one by dgrin. The first starts: "While I like the premis of this new thread...."

These same three comments appear whenever I have viewed comments on some photo in the Gallery but then move on to a photo without any comment. Then, even if I move on to a photo that has a comment, the wrong three comments still appear. This is using the "elegant" format, either by clicking on a thumbnail, or by clicking the arrow key to move to the next image.

You don't see this?

-muddyknees
No, I find the thread difficult to be observant of artist and photograph, to say the least of "comment".

However I liked the shadow on your rock, I just couldn't figure out what didn't belong, and I didn't say anything.

I am sure glad you posted, every time I have logged on it has been later, and nothing is new.......... I thought maybe they were down but not telling anyone.:D

ginger

snapapple

Aug-30-2004, 07:59 PM

Not sure where they are coming from - its a set of 3 comments, two by Ginette, one by dgrin. The first starts: "While I like the premis of this new thread...."

These same three comments appear whenever I have viewed comments on some photo in the Gallery but then move on to a photo without any comment. Then, even if I move on to a photo that has a comment, the wrong three comments still appear. This is using the "elegant" format, either by clicking on a thumbnail, or by clicking the arrow key to move to the next image.

You don't see this?

-muddyknees

Muddy,
What you are seeing is ginettes comments on the entire gallery. They stay up all the time, but the individual picture comments have to be clicked to show. I hope Andy or somebody takes thos comments off. They are very annoying and distracting.

muddyknees

Aug-30-2004, 08:09 PM

Muddy,
What you are seeing is ginettes comments on the entire gallery. They stay up all the time, but the individual picture comments have to be clicked to show. I hope Andy or somebody takes thos comments off. They are very annoying and distracting.OK - having looked more closely I see I've just been getting confused at my own behavior - when I was browsing using the arrow keys after viewing some image's comment, I would then _unconsiously_ switch back to "thumbnail mode" (eg., the "elegant" style - not sure what to call the format that lacks the thumbnails but has the individual image comments).

I must be tired, thats all.

Thanks for your responses as well, Ginger and DavidTo.

Gary

ginger_55

Aug-30-2004, 08:12 PM

OK - having looked more closely I see I've just been getting confused at my own behavior - when I was browsing using the arrow keys after viewing some image's comment, I would then _unconsiously_ switch back to "thumbnail mode" (eg., the "elegant" style - not sure what to call the format that lacks the thumbnails but has the individual image comments).

I must be tired, thats all.

Thanks for your responses as well, Gina and DavidTo.

Gary
You can browse using the arrow keys? That might be helpful, so you bypass the thumbnails that way?

Tired? I can match you,:rofl Slept two hours last night.

ginger

snapapple

Aug-30-2004, 08:16 PM

Ginger,
I like the shrimp boats you entered. I would try to find a better song. I think the song is important. This picture has the better composition of the two, but the other has better color in the sky.

ginger_55

Aug-30-2004, 08:20 PM

muddyknees

Aug-30-2004, 08:36 PM

No, I find the thread difficult to be observant of artist and photograph, to say the least of "comment".
Yeah, there's a lot of info to keep track of at once. That's why I was just trying to focus on the comments, not even noticing that the page style had changed - no more (elegant-style) thumbnails...

However I liked the shadow on your rock, I just couldn't figure out what didn't belong, and I didn't say anything.
I'm wanting to do another version of that posterized rock - less extreme - focusing more on the rock and "island"-sea-stack, and less on the "aura" from the sun's glare.

I am sure glad you posted, every time I have logged on it has been later, and nothing is new.......... I thought maybe they were down but not telling anyone.:D

ginger
I guess you're relying on email notices of new posts to the threads here?
That is convenient and missing with the "new system".

That's why I had suggested earlier in this thread that a "hybrid" solution might work, whereby one would link to a thread here from the image there. (It is more work - the posting process would be to 1. post the pic on dgrin.smugmug, 2. start a new thread here and copy the URL of that thread. 3. Go back to dgrin.smugmug and add a comment in which you paste the URL of the thread on dgrin. Whew!

Someone here suggested another solution to the enormous comments thread problem: just create your own individual thread - one per image. The problem with that I guess is that the threads individual threads quickly drop from sight (not on page one - especially with a full page of "sticky threads").

Of course the same "position" problem is evident in the smugmug gallery - where my photo's for ex are on pg 5 - guess thats just a general problem on the whole web - just too much competition. :dunno

-gary muddyknees

PerezDesignGroup

Aug-30-2004, 08:43 PM

Muddy,
What you are seeing is ginettes comments on the entire gallery. They stay up all the time, but the individual picture comments have to be clicked to show. I hope Andy or somebody takes thos comments off. They are very annoying and distracting.
I found the comments on the entire gallery rather distracting as well while I was viewing the photos. For the sake of aesthetics and easy voting I removed them. I hope this is ok. I didn't mean to offend anyone, especially Ginette, by doing that.

wxwax

Aug-30-2004, 08:59 PM

snapapple

Aug-30-2004, 09:40 PM

which two?

The other one, with the boat straight forward, called Fare Thee Well.

dugmar

Aug-31-2004, 02:59 AM

Okay, Gary's page makes three discussion threads linked to the one page of challenge photos. Plus there are the comments on the photo page itself. So to keep up, now you have to visit four different places all together.

:huh

Want to post or browse the photos in the challenge? Okay go here:
http://www.dgrin.smugmug.com/

Want to read comments or questions about the photos that aren't on the above page? Go here:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2426

Want to view or post the final entries? Okay, you have to here then:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2398

Want to see the experiemental thread for muddyknees' photos, then you have to go yet somewhere else...
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=2494

Oh yeah, once we get to the the voting stage of the challenge we have to start even another thread, that will make a fifth place we need to go to.

If we are trying to confuse new users (and maybe some experienced ones) I think we've got the perfect formula. It's obvious that people that are involved in these challenges want to have the discussion right here on dgin.com and not some little comment window below the photos.

Can we please go back to the old way?

Doug

ginger_55

Aug-31-2004, 08:06 AM

Doug, Rutt just started a great new brainstorming thread re the Challenge Photos, also. I didn't know about Gary's, or know Gary, for that matter.
Rutt's thread is on dGrin under Challenges, he has commented, and so have I.

Just so you can keep your "column" up todate on the threads..........

I also posted what is probably my entry for the Challenge, sigh.

ginger (And they thought I was a spoiler and just whining, shhhh, I didn't say that:wink )

dugmar

Aug-31-2004, 08:21 AM

ginger (And they thought I was a spoiler and just whining, shhhh, I didn't say that:wink )I agreed with you from day one on this issue Ginger. I, personally can keep up with this current format, I don't like it as much but I have no problem shooting around to 4 or 5 different places to read and comment about one particular challenge.

However, thinking about newcomers I think this multi-step, multi-positioned format for posting, commenting and replying would be quite confusing.

Doug

ginger_55

Aug-31-2004, 08:28 AM

I agreed with you from day one on this issue Ginger. I, personally can keep up with this current format, I don't like it as much but I have no problem shooting around to 4 or 5 different places to read and comment about one particular challenge.

However, thinking about newcomers I think this multi-step, multi-positioned format for posting, commenting and replying would be quite confusing.

Doug
Well, I had to "draw" a position map, along with photo names, to get a friend, someone who wanted to, to comment on my photos. A lot of mine are on page 5, too, plus another page, I forget, maybe 3.

I found her new photo by accident, last night, and commented on it. It was purely by accident that I saw it, although she had told me about it. It is great, top of the world, mtns, and a dog...........great dog, a painterly look to the photograph. It used to be on the last page, don't know now.

me again

digismile

Aug-31-2004, 07:31 PM

Like the many replys before me, I have definite opinions on the new challenge format. (I have humbly placed my own soapbox before you ... :D )

I joined smugmug in the early spring and immediately found dgrin and the many popular threads. Even a few months ago, the challenge threads to me were like a slow moving stream... friendly and inviting. I wan't sure if I was good enough to "swim" in this new body of water (and still don't), but I jumped in and the water seemed pretty good. But as with most streams they eventually become bigger and faster ...

I don't begrudge those who can spend many hours a day on dgrin. I would spend more time if I could. But the reality is, I have a busy life (including having some fun with photography) and I share my computer time in the evening so that my wife can use it too. The past couple of months, I could only make it back once every day or so and I literally was reading through HUNDREDS of posts (or should I say trying to read ...).

One of the basic tenants of our challenge format was that you "have to give to get". So I would respond to some photos that I felt I had something worthwhile to contribute and sometimes post a photo of my own. Returning sometimes only a day later, I was faced with reading/scanning 60+ replies, just to see if anyone had anything to say about my photo. Heaven help me if I couldn't return for 3 days! It just got to be too much work for something that is supposed to be fun for me.

So I've gradually pulled back from the challenges, still undecided whether to stay or go. But this new challenge critique format, despite a few shortcomings, works for me.

This is what I like best about it:

1. For me, the most important element of this process is still the photo! The thing I love most is looking at all the photographs that get submitted (and the photos in these challenges are outstanding!). I'm a visual person ... This format lets me immediately go to the photo that most draws my attention. I can study it, enjoy it, play with it, and after all that, even comment on it. I can then CHOOSE to read through any comment on the given photo.

2. Less BLOG. Some of the posts in the old format were interesting to me, but in a lot of cases, it was simply of interest to the original sender/recipient.

3. Now if I were to enter a challenge, I would actually have a snowball's chance in finding the one or two replies that I might receive on my pictures. At the moment, my time is limited and this format still allows someone like me to benefit.

Many people are longing for the past. There are things from the past I also wish we still had ... People like Humungus that got Rutt? WxWax? to take a picture of the inside of his fridge :rofl , challenge threads that I could actually get through in under an hour, etc.

Some seem worried that new people won't be able to "manage" the many points of entry. Just because someone is possibly new to digital photography, it doesn't mean that they don't know their way around a website. I personally believe that there are more people like me that simply find the shear volume more a barrier to entry than the technology ...

I vote to give the new challenge format a try ...

Thanks for the opportunity to respond. We still have one of the best communities going ...
Best regards,
Brad

ginger_55

Aug-31-2004, 07:47 PM

I submitted to the Challenge, the submission official page, #2, my final entry, I am exhausted, am going to call it a night. I worked quite hard on this photo, one I like very much, I worked very hard, using LAB curves,RGB saturation, USM, etc. to lighten the photo up and make it a Challenge worthy photo.

I have a question.

Is it too green?

If it is too green, I can work on it once more, tomorrow, then I have to get away from this for a little while.

I like the amt of brightness present now, I like all the colors except I worry about the water being too green. It is a marsh there, with green marsh grass, evening is coming on. I am losing my objectivity. I like all the other colors, a shift will shake the whole balance, so I want to know before I do that, if I really need to, or if I should leave it alone.

Page #2, official challenge, is my entry too green, or am I just tired???

If it is too green, do you know what I need to raise to change the color cast of the green, without shifting the other colors?

Please, ginger

ginger_55

Aug-31-2004, 08:01 PM

I just desaturated some of the yellow. It is a tad darker, not as green.

Please look.

Is it too dark? Still too green?

(It is so clear I can see a tiny boat in the creek I had not noticed til tonight, I don't want to hurt it.)

ginger

wxwax

Aug-31-2004, 09:39 PM

Many people are longing for the past. There are things from the past I also wish we still had ... People like Humungus that got Rutt? WxWax? to take a picture of the inside of his fridge :rofl , challenge threads that I could actually get through in under an hour, etc.

Nice post, Brad. And it was me.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/5058622-M.jpg

gubbs

Sep-01-2004, 02:49 AM

Nice post, Brad. And it was me.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/5058622-Th.jpg
Changing the subject slightly, is the Warrior ot the Wasteland (Humungus) still travelling??

dugmar

Sep-01-2004, 03:06 AM

Will this challenge be extended to Tuesday since it is a long weekend? I will not be able to post until I get back on late Monday night and I plan to shoot all weekend.

Thanks,

Doug

ginger_55

Sep-01-2004, 03:35 AM

Will this challenge be extended to Tuesday since it is a long weekend? I will not be able to post until I get back on late Monday night and I plan to shoot all weekend.

Thanks,

Doug
If it is can those of us who want start the next Challenge on Monday, so there is an overlap?

ginger, who is now wondering when her tripod will arrive.

wxwax

Sep-01-2004, 05:31 AM

Changing the subject slightly, is the Warrior ot the Wasteland (Humungus) still travelling??
He's back, now. He posted a trip report at www.advrider.com. I dunno if he'll wander back here again. :dunno

wxwax

Sep-01-2004, 05:31 AM

Will this challenge be extended to Tuesday since it is a long weekend? I will not be able to post until I get back on late Monday night and I plan to shoot all weekend.

Thanks,

Doug

Good question, Doug. You might PM Andy, in case he doesn't see this.

jwear

Sep-01-2004, 06:04 AM

Like the many replys before me, I have definite opinions on the new challenge format. (I have humbly placed my own soapbox before you ... http://www.digitalgrin.com/images/smilies/icon10.gif )

I joined smugmug in the early spring and immediately found dgrin and the many popular threads. Even a few months ago, the challenge threads to me were like a slow moving stream... friendly and inviting. I wan't sure if I was good enough to "swim" in this new body of water (and still don't), but I jumped in and the water seemed pretty good. But as with most streams they eventually become bigger and faster ...

I don't begrudge those who can spend many hours a day on dgrin. I would spend more time if I could. But the reality is, I have a busy life (including having some fun with photography) and I share my computer time in the evening so that my wife can use it too. The past couple of months, I could only make it back once every day or so and I literally was reading through HUNDREDS of posts (or should I say trying to read ...).

One of the basic tenants of our challenge format was that you "have to give to get". So I would respond to some photos that I felt I had something worthwhile to contribute and sometimes post a photo of my own. Returning sometimes only a day later, I was faced with reading/scanning 60+ replies, just to see if anyone had anything to say about my photo. Heaven help me if I couldn't return for 3 days! It just got to be too much work for something that is supposed to be fun for me.

So I've gradually pulled back from the challenges, still undecided whether to stay or go. But this new challenge critique format, despite a few shortcomings, works for me.

This is what I like best about it:

1. For me, the most important element of this process is still the photo! The thing I love most is looking at all the photographs that get submitted (and the photos in these challenges are outstanding!). I'm a visual person ... This format lets me immediately go to the photo that most draws my attention. I can study it, enjoy it, play with it, and after all that, even comment on it. I can then CHOOSE to read through any comment on the given photo.

2. Less BLOG. Some of the posts in the old format were interesting to me, but in a lot of cases, it was simply of interest to the original sender/recipient.

3. Now if I were to enter a challenge, I would actually have a snowball's chance in finding the one or two replies that I might receive on my pictures. At the moment, my time is limited and this format still allows someone like me to benefit.

Many people are longing for the past. There are things from the past I also wish we still had ... People like Humungus that got Rutt? WxWax? to take a picture of the inside of his fridge http://www.digitalgrin.com/images/smilies/yelrotflmao.gif , challenge threads that I could actually get through in under an hour, etc.

Some seem worried that new people won't be able to "manage" the many points of entry. Just because someone is possibly new to digital photography, it doesn't mean that they don't know their way around a website. I personally believe that there are more people like me that simply find the shear volume more a barrier to entry than the technology ...

I vote to give the new challenge format a try ...

Thanks for the opportunity to respond. We still have one of the best communities going ...
Best regards,
Brad [quote] jwear Well said Brad it took me 4 days to get a pic to challenge but it will take me no time the next time.Very new and very happy with what Andy has set up. jwear