EOS D20 detailed review at RobGalbraith.com

[zero-zero]

Thought you'd like to check it out. I respect very much these reviews, as they come from a working pro really giving the cameras a good workout, not just obsessing over lab tests. It's here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/index.asp).

PS: No pics until the 23rd, as part of the non-disclosure agreement.

[DoctorIt]

oh boy. i don't think my bank account is prepared for this. :deal

[pathfinder]

Thought you'd like to check it out. I respect very much these reviews, as they come from a working pro really giving the cameras a good workout, not just obsessing over lab tests. It's here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/index.asp).

PS: No pics until the 23rd, as part of the non-disclosure agreement.Z-Z A few image files from the 20D can be found here :1drink http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eos20d/eos20d_sample-e.html

[evil eggplant]

oh boy. i don't think my bank account is prepared for this. :deal
Oh yeah, maybe I'll cash out my 401K, buy a 1D mkII and some serious L glass. I want way more than I got. EEeek..:hung


rich

[zero-zero]

Z-Z A few image files from the 20D can ba found here :1drink http://www.canon.co.jp/Imaging/eos20d/eos20d_sample-e.html
Oh yeah, I've seen those. I meant from Rob Galbraith.

Like the tower one. Have you seen it full size?

[wxwax]

Wow, they certainly seem to have tackled the noise problem on the 20D. If true, it's very impressive. I took a ten second expsure with the 1D at 200ISO and had tons and tons of noise - unusable, in fact. It's one reason why I too lust for the 1DmkII, unworthy as I am.

[pathfinder]

Oh yeah, I've seen those. I meant from Rob Galbraith.

Like the tower one. Have you seen it full size?
The tower is very impressive to me - the sky seems to have very little noise and the yellow metal structure is sharply defined. I AM very impressed by the quality of the optics used the 35mm f1.4 L lens - very nice indeed.

The image quality is a definite step up from the 10D. It will be interesting to compare this to the 1DMkII as I am sure will be forthcoming in the next few weeks.

[patch29]

oh boy. i don't think my bank account is prepared for this. :deal

Motorcycle, camera, lenses, education, PUI Friday. :rofl

What have I missed? How to afford it all. :dunno

[patch29]

It will be interesting to compare this to the 1DMkII as I am sure will be forthcoming in the next few weeks.

I am curious to see this too. I also wonder how it will compare to the D70, will prosumers even notice the difference? How is the D70 with noise? Just when Nikon thought they had one upped Canon. I wonder when we will hear from Nikon? I am sure they have something in the works.



If the 20D does what they say, I could see one in my future. I would also like to see how good the 18-85 IS EF-S lens is. It is definitely a good focal length.

[pathfinder]

I am curious to see this too. I also wonder how it will compare to the D70, will prosumers even notice the difference? How is the D70 with noise? Just when Nikon thought they had one upped Canon. I wonder when we will hear from Nikon? I am sure they have something in the works.



If the 20D does what they say, I could see one in my future. I would also like to see how good the 18-85 IS EF-S lens is. It is definitely a good focal length.
The 18-85 is an impressive range and would be extremely useful - seems Canon traded aperture ( it is only f4.5 -f5.5) for IS. Since it is a slower lens, IS will still allow it to be used some in dimmer light - I think that some forms of IS are cheaper to manufacture than large sharp aperature lenses also. Won't allow as shallow depth of field tho.
I just wish the 18-85 was not EF-S. That would be a nice walk around lens on a standard EOS body also.:scratch

[dugmar]

Tempting.

I'll keep the old Rebel until it dies, or I drop it in a lake...
Then, I'll have an excuse.

Doug

[Andy]

my main reason for the mk2 was the 1.3 factor. i don't need the speed and the gatling-gun of the mk2 - while impressive, it's overkill for me. i got the chance to use one yesterday.

the 20d has great low noise, bigger file, bigger prints. it's also faster than the 10d, and the af is supposedly better.

i'm in :D

[REECEPHOTO]

Sure would be nice but I will probly have to save my money for now.
I need more goodies than anything else right now.
New glass,a couple of Alien bees,new tripod,bag ect.ect.ect.
Now all I have to do is knock over the local bank and I'm good to go.:evil

[DoctorIt]

Motorcycle, camera, lenses, education, PUI Friday. :rofl

What have I missed? How to afford it all. :dunnoI was a bad bad boy today...

Let's just say I've given up on the 2nd motorbike. I already found a buyer for my Rebel kit and the chump change I had for the bike is exactly what I need to cover the difference on the 20D.

Sorry Patch.

[dkapp]

I was a bad bad boy today...

Let's just say I've given up on the 2nd motorbike. I already found a buyer for my Rebel kit and the chump change I had for the bike is exactly what I need to cover the difference on the 20D.

Sorry Patch.

Congrats on 20D! When will Canon start shipping? You'll have to give us a review when you get it.

Dave

[patch29]

I was a bad bad boy today...

Let's just say I've given up on the 2nd motorbike. I already found a buyer for my Rebel kit and the chump change I had for the bike is exactly what I need to cover the difference on the 20D.

Sorry Patch.

:cry What happened to your priorities? :scratch Wonder what the ADVrider crew will think when you opted for a camera over a dirt bike? :dunno :rofl :wxwax



Not that my new GS is not tied up in EOS 1 digital bodies. :evil

[Andy]

:cry What happened to your priorities? :scratch Wonder what the ADVrider crew will think when you opted for a camera over a dirt bike?




.... it won't be pretty. ouch!

[DoctorIt]

I will of course give you all the dirt when I get it. I can't wait.

Yeah, Patch, I know. I'll let you play with the camera if you promise to stick up for me! But it was a no brainer. I had managed to save up $500 that was really "disposable" these past few months - so it was either a really sweet new camera or a really piece of junk dirtbike.
:scratch (tough call...)


Did I mention I can't wait? I really hope they come through on their mid-september ship date.

[patch29]

Samples can be found here (http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page16.asp) at dpreview.

[patch29]

B&W mode?

I find it interesting that they included a B&W mode. Is the B&W file smaller than a color jpg? I also wonder if they will make it a post-process option for RAW files, that would seem to be the best of both worlds.

[Andy]

have you guys seen the iso 1600 and iso 3200 samples? smooth! like buttah! much improvement over the 10d, at least to my eyes.

this is exciting :D

[patch29]

have you guys seen the iso 1600 and iso 3200 samples? smooth! like buttah! much improvement over the 10d, at least to my eyes.

this is exciting :D

I took a quick look at the ferris wheel and thought it looked great. A 20D will probably be on my list :deal very soon. It should be an awesome travel camera.

I wish they could have made the additional grip in a second version that would accept the batteries from the EOS 1D series camera. That would make it a no brainer backup for pro body users, no second battery system or chargers.

[PerezDesignGroup]

I wish they could have made the additional grip in a second version that would accept the batteries from the EOS 1D series camera. That would make it a no brainer backup for pro body users, no second battery system or chargers.
I really like the fact the grip will accept 6 AA batteries with an optional accessory. I have quite a collection built up from my A70 and it's nice knowing I won't have to retire their usage.

I'm glad I waited a while longer before getting the 300d. This one looks like a winner unless Nikon pulls a miracle out of their bumsy.

[patch29]

I really like the fact the grip will accept 6 AA batteries with an optional accessory. I have quite a collection built up from my A70 and it's nice knowing I won't have to retire their usage.


I have a ton of AA's. Does it require any other batteries? If not that is awesome. :clap Canon Rocks. :super Now I have to buy one. :deal :rofl :wxwax

[patch29]

Here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/20d-part1.shtml) is another review from the Luminous-Landscape.

[PerezDesignGroup]

I have a ton of AA's. Does it require any other batteries? If not that is awesome. :clap Canon Rocks. :super Now I have to buy one. :deal :rofl :wxwax


Because of its smaller dimensions the EOS 20D gets a new battery grip, the BG-E2. This provides additional battery capacity as it can take two BP-511A (or BP-511/512/514) batteries. Also supplied is a new six AA battery magazine which is described by Canon as for 'get you home' use only (this basically means that the camera will soon suck a set of AA's dry). Compared to the EOS 10D's BG-ED3 the new grip gets an on/off switch (to help avoid accidental shutter release).

The grip is attached to the EOS 20D by removing the battery compartment door (which fits neatly into a slot on the edge of the inserted part of the grip), inserting into the battery compartment and screwing tightly to the tripod mount. The grip and two batteries adds 374 g (13.2 oz) to the weight of the EOS 20D with just one battery.


I'm psyched out too...Check out the pics...
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page5.asp

[patch29]

I'm psyched out too...Check out the pics...
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos20d/page5.asp

Thanks for the link. I wonder how many shots you can get out of a set of AA's. I hope the cameras start to ship soon.

[pathfinder]

Here (http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/20d-part1.shtml) is another review from the Luminous-Landscape.
M Reichman liked the 20D quite a bit - one complaint that he did mention was that the view finder is smaller and slightly darker than the 10D, which he did not hold in real high regard either. If the AF is enough better than the 10D, this may not matter very much, but..... it my be harder to focus manually than the 10D.

To quote M Reichman "The smaller pentaprism, smaller ground glass and smaller reflex mirror on the 20D all seem to produce a slightly dimmer image. Actually I believe that it's the coarser textured ground glass that may be the real culprit. ." Despite this, he says he ordered one for himself. His 2 part review can be seen at http://www.luminous-landscape.com which is a really great website for digital photgraphers.


Also, he thinks the noise of the 20D is not significantly less than with the 10D, altho it has 25% more pixels than the 10D. It does seem that ISO 800 and 1600 are emminently useful.

[Andy]

Thanks for the link. I wonder how many shots you can get out of a set of AA's. I hope the cameras start to ship soon.

patch, the aa's are meant only as a "get you home" kind of situation. no specs on how many shots, but i think it's like the donut-tire vs a real spare :D

[patch29]

patch, the aa's are meant only as a "get you home" kind of situation. no specs on how many shots, but i think it's like the donut-tire vs a real spare :D

I am just tired of dealing with all the different types of batteries and chargers. I already have 30+ High Capacity Nimh AA's, so less of an investment and I have several chargers, plus if I bicycle tour in the middle of nowhere I can get a fairly cheap solar charger for the AA's. I guess I will have to be my own guinea pig on this one, but it could work. At least it would be easier to carry those then the jumbo size charger from the mkII's. My dream is to someday have one universal high powered battery that works, cameras, laptop, power tools, flashlights, cell phone..... Too bad it will never happen, but it sure would be nice.

[zero-zero]

I would kill and die for such a device. :bow

Well, maybe not die, but kill, certainly! :deal :lol3

Whoops, I wonder why the police is knocking at my door?

[Baldy]

Thanks for posting those reviews & pointers to images.

I rented a MKII last weekend and shot 1700 frames with it at a car show and a wedding. I expected to LOVE it and buy one, but....I'm gonna go with the 20D. I have a 10D now that I'll use as a second camera.

The MKII is pretty heavy and big and expensive for what's turning out to be a new-one-every-year purchase. The really big draws for me were the outstanding moving-object autofocus, the fast shooting rate and low mirror blackout time.

But the 20D shoots fast enough for me, the mirror blackout is down from the 10D, and the indications are the autofocus is better. At least they talk the talk about it, so I'm hopeful.

I really had a tough time with the MKII on autoexposure and with ETTL II. Strangely, we shot with a 10D as well on the same settings and didn't have trouble. Canon checked the camera and said it was okay. Strange. I had to set it to manual exposure to get it right.

I'm also buying the 24-70 f2.8 zoom. I'm addicted to f2.8 and the autofocus works so much better with it.... I wince at the price but I had good results with the lens last weekend.

[Andy]

you've already got the 70-200. you're getting the 50mm f/1.4. i think you ought to look at the 16-35L f/2.8 over the 24-70. you'll then have 16-35, 50, and 70-200. you're not missing much. and you've got the benefit of that wiiide angle.

just a thought.

Thanks for posting those reviews & pointers to images.

I rented a MKII last weekend and shot 1700 frames with it at a car show and a wedding. I expected to LOVE it and buy one, but....I'm gonna go with the 20D. I have a 10D now that I'll use as a second camera.

The MKII is pretty heavy and big and expensive for what's turning out to be a new-one-every-year purchase. The really big draws for me were the outstanding moving-object autofocus, the fast shooting rate and low mirror blackout time.

But the 20D shoots fast enough for me, the mirror blackout is down from the 10D, and the indications are the autofocus is better. At least they talk the talk about it, so I'm hopeful.

I really had a tough time with the MKII on autoexposure and with ETTL II. Strangely, we shot with a 10D as well on the same settings and didn't have trouble. Canon checked the camera and said it was okay. Strange. I had to set it to manual exposure to get it right.

I'm also buying the 24-70 f2.8 zoom. I'm addicted to f2.8 and the autofocus works so much better with it.... I wince at the price but I had good results with the lens last weekend.

[zero-zero]

you've already got the 70-200. you're getting the 50mm f/1.4. i think you ought to look at the 16-35L f/2.8 over the 24-70.
:nod

[Baldy]

you've already got the 70-200. you're getting the 50mm f/1.4. i think you ought to look at the 16-35L f/2.8 over the 24-70. you'll then have 16-35, 50, and 70-200. you're not missing much. and you've got the benefit of that wiiide angle.

just a thought.When I spoke to you via phone I was leaning away from the 24-70 towards the 50mm prime to get the extra light, but I'm leaning back towards the 24-70 instead. Moving around my daughter's reception, it was pretty handy to be able to go all the way to 24 but still be able to come up on people with a 70.

And I'm a little spooked about focus on the f/1.4. Think I'm crazy?

[pathfinder]

When I spoke to you via phone I was leaning away from the 24-70 towards the 50mm prime to get the extra light, but I'm leaning back towards the 24-70 instead. Moving around my daughter's reception, it was pretty handy to be able to go all the way to 24 but still be able to come up on people with a 70.

And I'm a little spooked about focus on the f/1.4. Think I'm crazy?
I bought a Tamron 28-75 f2.8 DI originally for my 10D, thinking I would use it some of the time. I actually found that I used it 75% of the time and I have lenses from very wide to very long. The mid range zoom is just SO handy, for exactly the reason you mentioned. Wide enough and long enough indoors or out side. The 24-70 L is qutie a bit larger and heavier than the 50mm f1.4 tho...
I was so impressed by the mid range zoom I went ahead and ponied up for the Canon 24-70 L. What a sweet lens. Wide enough for nice wide angles ( especially on a 1D) and long enough for head shots. With your second body and a 70-200 you'll definitely be in business Baldy.

I also own a 50mm f1.4 - nice, sharp, focuses ok, but only used when I really need f1.4 which is infrequently as ISO 800 is so useable on the newer DSLRs. Hve you considered the 85 f1.2 or f1.8 for the faster aperatures?

[mercphoto]

And I'm a little spooked about focus on the f/1.4. Think I'm crazy?

I have the 50mm 1.4 and I love it. Remarkable image quality. But I've found it doesn't like to auto-focus in poor light, which I think is actually the dRebel's fault, not the lens. Unsure.

But at 1.4 focus is very crucial. Depth of field will be really, really small, so focus is very critical. I nearly never use it wide open, but I've done several outdoor portraits at f2.0, for example, with great results.

[Patrick]

So the 20D is the new hot set up but any thoughts on getting a
leftover 10D at a bargain price? I've seen several for sale over
on Craig's list and I've also seen a couple lower prices in the mags
from the New York Camera Mafia ads too.

What about a nice used example? :dunno

Whats the best course here?

I have borrowed a friends 10D and am mightly impressed.
I'm afraid to even pick up the 20, I think for my uses
a lower priced 10D would be fine.

Whats the favorite Canon lens around here. I like the D70
Nikon 18 to 85mm (??) range. I noticed Canon Zooms cover
a more narrow range and have a higher conversion rate.
Thoughts? :bow

[wxwax]

:wave Hi Patrick, welcome aboard.

The mass selling of 10D's has begun, and may well pick up speed when the 20D is actually available. I would imagine the prices would come down. I'm a big believer in buying used gear, it's worked well for me so far.

As I'm sure you know, Canon has a really wide selection of lenses, with all sorts of zoom ranges. The D70's 1.5 magnification duer to sensor size is only slightly down from the 10 and 20D's 1.6 magnification. I'm quite sure you can find comparable lenses to suit your needs, from Canon's range.

Which camera should you choose. I'd say read the reviews, handle the cameras, and figure out if the 10D will meet your specific needs. If it does, you'll get a very competent camera at what could be a very nice price.

[mercphoto]

Canon has a 24-85 lens that is near the Nikon you were referring to. They also have a new EF-S lens, the 17-85, that includes USM and IS. Will only fit the 300D and the 20D. So if you go a used 10D route it won't work. Go the used 300D route it will.

[digismile]

I had the opportunity to try the 20D tonight and test the ISO 1600 for noise. The shots look great. The noise was significantly improved (decreased) over my 10D.

But the feature that is most appealing is the increased buffer and virtually instant start up time. Didn`t get to try the autofocus on any action shots, but I`ve read that it`s better. Lots of other little ergonomic improvements will make this model even more popular than the 10D. Now I want to upgrade !!!

If my dealer won`t give me a good price on trade-in, I`ll post my 10D here. Mint condition.

Brad

[wxwax]

:clap That low noise sounds great!

[patch29]

Robgalbraith.com has a front page article stating that Canon is on scheduled with the 20D production. It states cameras should start arriving to dealers the week of September 13th. They also state it will probably be two months before the camera are in readily available supply.

Who will be the first to get theirs?

[Andy]

Robgalbraith.com has a front page article stating that Canon is on scheduled with the 20D production. It states cameras should start arriving to dealers the week of September 13th. They also state it will probably be two months before the camera are in readily available supply.

Who will be the first to get theirs?

i hope to have it in a week or two :D

[gubbs]

Forgive my ignorance, but could someone explain the various canon lens types (ie L S etc....) and thier compatablity with the various models particularly the Rebel /10D /20D

Thanks :dunno

[Andy]

Forgive my ignorance, but could someone explain the various canon lens types (ie L S etc....) and thier compatablity with the various models particularly the Rebel /10D /20D

Thanks :dunno

sure

canon ef lenses - compatible with all of canon's digital slrs
canon ef-s lenses - made for digitial only, and currently only for 300D and 20D
canon l lenses - their topshelf models, best optical quality they make. compatible with all canon digitial slrs

[gubbs]

Thanks andy

It's getting very tempting, lots of 10d's coming up on FM, the prices seem to have started to drift down already!

[mercphoto]

Robgalbraith.com calls the 20D an "entry-level pro digital SLR". Aside from pixel count, what is it that separates a 1 series digital from a 10D? And does the 20D have the features to really be considered low-end "pro" ?

[Andy]

Robgalbraith.com calls the 20D an "entry-level pro digital SLR". Aside from pixel count, what is it that separates a 1 series digital from a 10D? And does the 20D have the features to really be considered low-end "pro" ?

depends. pro fine art? one of my biggest selling prints came from a 5mpx sony point and shoot (dsc-p10). pro sports? well, the canon mk2 is a pro camera for that use. so's the fast nikon.

i know lots of pros who use "non-pro" cameras. bah! use what gets the job done for you, and don't worry 'bout who says what camera is "pro" or not.

[mercphoto]

I've been looking at a lot of 20D samples. Seems like they are all AWB and all large-fine JPG in-camera. Nothing raw and processed. Is this true, and if so does it impress others like it does me?