D70 vs. 300d vs. *ist D

[PerezDesignGroup]

Ok, I've been researching the h*ll outta this comparison online and it's driving me nuts. I'm ready to move up to a DSLR from my existing A70. I've narrowed the field down to these 3 choices. I've never owned an SLR so I'll basically be starting from scratch. Of all the forums out there, I feel the most comfortable asking in this one...
Can you examine my reasoning below and tell me if I'm nuts? Do you have any insight or opinons to add?

Why I like the 300d: It's clear that the 100 iso produces extremely smooth pics. I plan on taking lots of night pics. JPEGs are sweet.
Why I don't like the 300d: Crippled BIOS, Slow startup time. My current 3-sec A70 has left me missing tons of pics.

Why I like the D70: Tons of features, Fast startup time. Lenses seem inexpensive compared to Canon.
Why I don't like the D70: No 100 iso. Users note problems with grain in higher iso. JPEGs don't compress too well.

Why I like the *ist D: AA Batteries. The Pentax name gives me warm and fuzzy feelings.
Why I don't like the *ist D: No solid reason yet. From all the user experience I've gathered, it seems very 'generic' or normal. Nothing out of this world. And I have yet to examine a night shot for grain.

So...is there anything I've missed? I'm leaning heavily towards the D70 or *istD at this point. I figure any major noise problems in the 300d can get NeatImaged away. Anyone here have a *istD gallery I can take a look at?

[damonff]

Hey

Phil Askey's images for the Pentax:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxistd/page19.asp

...and his pros and cons:
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http://www.dpreview.com/images/gray.gif
http://www.dpreview.com/images/arrow_prev.gif (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxistd/page17.asp) 1. Introduction 2. Specifications 3. Body & Design 4. Body & Design 5. Operation & Controls 6. Operation & Controls 7. Displays 8. Menus 9. Timings & Sizes 10. Features 11. Features 12. Software 13. Photographic tests 14. Photographic tests 15. Photographic tests 16. Compared to... 17. Compared to... 18. Conclusion 19. Samples ------------------------------------ > Buy this product < Back to product reviews http://www.dpreview.com/images/arrow_next.gif (http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/pentaxistd/page19.asp) http://www.dpreview.com/images/gray.gif
Conclusion - Pros



Good tonal balance, average resolution, low in-camera sharpening
Good metering, very little need for exposure compensation
No sharpening artifacts, virtually no moiré artifacts
Low noise up to ISO 800, slightly higher than the competition after that
Very natural color response, very film like
Support for sRGB and Adobe RGB color space (better to be on main menu)
Very compact for a 35mm based digital SLR, the smallest yet
Solid build quality, feels robust
Nice control structure, clear indication of dial function
Viewfinder magnification better than competitors, bigger view
Program Reset button and selectable program lines
Fairly customizable thanks to wide range of custom functions
Fairly quick operation, just over a second startup with a good CF card
RAW mode provides the 'digital negative', about 1 stop of latitude in over exposed images
Excellent battery life with CR-V3 Lithium batteries
Onboard PC Sync flash terminal
http://www.dpreview.com/images/gray.gif
Conclusion - Cons




Soft appearance to images, converted RAW images are sharper
Continuous shooting not as fast as competition, image buffer also smaller
No histogram on record review (immediately after shot)
Image parameters don't offer enough latitude of adjustment
Awkward to select WB, Image quality and ISO on mode dial
Annoyingly small CF compartment, orientation of CF card
Bundled software is fairly weak, RAW converter window too small
Photo Laboratory converted RAW images show some Bayer pattern artifacts
Large RAW files (stored as 16-bits per pixel?)
Firewire or USB 2.0 should have been a consideration for connectivity
Price competition from Canon's EOS 300D
http://www.dpreview.com/images/gray.gif



Ok, I've been researching the h*ll outta this comparison online and it's driving me nuts. I'm ready to move up to a DSLR from my existing A70. I've narrowed the field down to these 3 choices. I've never owned an SLR so I'll basically be starting from scratch. Of all the forums out there, I feel the most comfortable asking in this one...
Can you examine my reasoning below and tell me if I'm nuts? Do you have any insight or opinons to add?

Why I like the 300d: It's clear that the 100 iso produces extremely smooth pics. I plan on taking lots of night pics. JPEGs are sweet.
Why I don't like the 300d: Crippled BIOS, Slow startup time. My current 3-sec A70 has left me missing tons of pics.

Why I like the D70: Tons of features, Fast startup time. Lenses seem inexpensive compared to Canon.
Why I don't like the D70: No 100 iso. Users note problems with grain in higher iso. JPEGs don't compress too well.

Why I like the *ist D: AA Batteries. The Pentax name gives me warm and fuzzy feelings.
Why I don't like the *ist D: No solid reason yet. From all the user experience I've gathered, it seems very 'generic' or normal. Nothing out of this world. And I have yet to examine a night shot for grain.

So...is there anything I've missed? I'm leaning heavily towards the D70 or *istD at this point. I figure any major noise problems in the 300d can get NeatImaged away. Anyone here have a *istD gallery I can take a look at?

[DoctorIt]

i would think the major drawback to the Pentax would be the lenses, or lack thereof, no? What about the 10D? at this point it costs the same as the D70, and you get to use Canon glass. Speaking of which... you find Nikkor glass to be less expensive that Canon glass?!? Are you comparing apples to apples? As in consumer to consumer grade lenses? If so, you'd find them almost identical, or Nikon to be more in my experience - not to mention, they offer less in the way of consumer or prosumer grade lenses. And in that category, I've found (and my Nikon friend has also found) that you get what you pay for. Nikon's pro glass is awesome indeed, but the same friend prefers Sigma's consumer grade over Nikon's. Just my .02.

[wxwax]

PDG, just a thought. They say in SLRs you buy the lens, not the camera. By the time you're done emptying your wallet, you'll have spent more on lenses than the camera. If you buy quality glass, it should last a lifetime. Whereas you'll go through lots of camera bodies before you shuffle off this mortal coil.

Canon and Nikon lenses both have great reps. I have no Nikon experience. But lots of people gravitate towards Canon because of the quality and selection of their glass.

[dkapp]

I was in the same boat as you a few months ago. It seems you are in the same price range as I was. I chose the D70 for many reasons, and have not regretted my decision.

You don't have to buy Nikon or Canon glass, I'm buying Tamron & I'm in love. The lenses are great, and cost 1/3 the price.

Your doing the right thing. Ask around, read forums and don't forget to try and hold each camera. Thats what sealed the deal for me.

Dave

[pathfinder]

i would think the major drawback to the Pentax would be the lenses, or lack thereof, no? What about the 10D? at this point it costs the same as the D70, and you get to use Canon glass. Speaking of which... you find Nikkor glass to be less expensive that Canon glass?!? Are you comparing apples to apples? As in consumer to consumer grade lenses? If so, you'd find them almost identical, or Nikon to be more in my experience - not to mention, they offer less in the way of consumer or prosumer grade lenses. And in that category, I've found (and my Nikon friend has also found) that you get what you pay for. Nikon's pro glass is awesome indeed, but the same friend prefers Sigma's consumer grade over Nikon's. Just my .02.
I am with DrIT. Rather than racking your brain over which DSLR you prefer, decide whose glass you prefer. No matter which DSLR you buy, in three years time it will be yesterday's news, but the lenses you buy today will still be excellent 10 years from now. Great lenses are the ticket! - the body just holds the "film" and excludes light.

I bought a Canon 10D last fall because I wanted access to Canon's IS telephotos, even though I had been a Nikon fan for years. I think either Nikon or Canon make great lenses that will be around a long long time. Other brands may or may not be available or well supported in the future.

One alternative to a 300D or a D70, might be a used D60 or a used D100 or a used 10D. By fall, Canon or Nikon may announce more new cameras for their fall lineup and Christmas season - so waiting until late October might open up some alternatives too.

DSLRs are like computers - they will be upgraded year after year, but the great glass for them is not likely to be changed in the proximate future so choice of lenses is the key to your decision not the minutia of DSLR features in my opinion. Some people favor Nikon for wide angle lenses, and some favor Canon for telephotos. But both make world class glass.:clap

[Baldy]

I'm with the go-with-the-best-glass school of thought. I owned Nikons for years but switched to Canon because of their lenses and haven't looked back.

My favorite lens on earth is the Canon f2.8 IS 70-200mm. I like it better than any product I've ever owned of any kind. It only has one major drawback, and that's that my friends (one shoots with a D70) keep borrowing it (and my 10D that's attached to it), so I find myself without a camera when I need it sometimes.

I'm really impressed with the D70, but so far I haven't been reading the best of things about Nikon anti-shake lenses. Perhaps I'm out of date?

[patch29]

By fall, Canon or Nikon may announce more new cameras for their fall lineup and Christmas season - so waiting until late October might open up some alternatives too.


Photokina (http://www.koelnmesse.de/wEnglisch/photokina/index.htm) is being held this year at the end of September in Germany. It is one of the worlds largest Photo EXPOs. This is where a lot of new cameras are announced. I think it is where the 1Ds was annouced two years ago. I would think Canon will probably announce a 10D replacement and a 1Ds replacement, who really knows, but if I were betting I would put money on those two cameras, maybe Nikon will replace the D1x. :dunno

I would probably delay until then, but be aware a new model may take some time to roll out in large quantities, and the older models may drop in price (or become very scarce).

As others have said pick your choice, Nikon or Canon, even Fuji make a DSLR that has a great sensor (the S3 should be very nice if it ever comes out?).

Nikon seems to be happy with the 1.5x multiplier, as does Fuji which uses Nikon lenses. Only Kodak and Canon have offered full frame sensors (not including Contax's camera which did not go far), but not Nikon? They have started to offer dedicated digital lenses to cover wide angles. This is one large difference from Canon and Nikon. Canon offers cameras that have 1.6x, 1.3x and 1x multipliers, offering more choices, but the cameras are more expensive as you lower the multiplying factor.

If I did not have any glass and wanted the best prosumer camera today. I think the D70 is the best in class with the features and price it is offered at. The big difference being the sensor in both the 300D and D70 which I have not really followed, but I would think dpreview would have a good comparison. That said I think Canon will replace the 10D and make a better camera, then Nikon, etc. Nikon is faster at rolling out their new models of prosumer cameras then their professional line, Canon seems to upgrade across the line fairly quickly, for a while the prosumer releases seemed like one a year and the pro cameras were about two years apart.

Given that you want to do night photography that is one of the largest challenges in the digital world, the newer cameras and sensors always seem to be doing a better job. Another good reason to wait until the end of September. The noise suppression software also continues to advance. I have seem some results from Noise Ninja that are pretty remarkable. You can throw that into the price of a current camera and it may allow you to create the images you are looking for.

A lot to think about, hopefully all of the manufacturers will give us all something jaw dropping at Photokina.

[patch29]

My favorite lens on earth is the Canon f2.8 IS 70-200mm. I like it better than any product I've ever owned of any kind. It only has one major drawback, and that's that my friends (one shoots with a D70) keep borrowing it (and my 10D that's attached to it), so I find myself without a camera when I need it sometimes.

I switched when the 1Ds came out two and a half years ago and have not looked back either.

The only thing I do not like about the 70-200 is how easy the AF/MF, IS on/off, buttons are to hit. I wish they were a way to lock them in place. Other then that, it is a super sweet lens.

[DoctorIt]

I switched when the 1Ds came out two and a half years ago and have not looked back either.

The only thing I do not like about the 70-200 is how easy the AF/MF, IS on/off, buttons are to hit. I wish they were a way to lock them in place. Other then that, it is a super sweet lens.if you want to send it to me, i'm sure i could develop a solution and suggest a redesign. of course, I'll need it for an undisclosed length of time.

:D :deal

[PerezDesignGroup]

You guys are the BEST! This is the finest help I've received yet. Bottom line -as wxwax and others noted- it's all about the lens. So I'll be taking that into account from here on out. I'll be off later this week so I'll run out and try out the various cameras hands-on.

And waiting an extra month at this point really isn't going to matter so I'll monitor news from Photokina closely.

Baldy, thanks for the tip on the lens. I'll definitely take a close look at that one. I've heard great things about the IS lenses.

Dkapp, your gallery is the reason I'm even considering a Nikon. You've got some gorgeous pics in there :thumb

Thanks again!

[dkapp]

One thing you may want to consider is used lenses. Finding used glass can save a ton of money when your first getting your gear together.

I spend a lot of time on the Fred Miranda Buy & Sell forum looking for good deals on Nikon gear. I can say finding good used Canon lenses is a lot easier than finding Nikon, or Nikon mount lenses.

One thing I wish I would have known when I was starting.

Dave

[PerezDesignGroup]

One thing you may want to consider is used lenses. Finding used glass can save a ton of money when your first getting your gear together.

I spend a lot of time on the Fred Miranda Buy & Sell forum looking for good deals on Nikon gear. I can say finding good used Canon lenses is a lot easier than finding Nikon, or Nikon mount lenses.

One thing I wish I would have known when I was starting.

Dave
Great tip! I've been frequenting www.keh.com but that Fred Miranda site looks pretty friggin' popular. Is he a well-known photog?

[dkapp]

Great tip! I've been frequenting www.keh.com but that Fred Miranda site looks pretty friggin' popular. Is he a well-known photog?

I like that site a lot. The people there are very friendly, and the buy & sell forum seems to self-police itself very good. I actually ran across his site when I was reading a post on dpreview about his PS plugins and actions. I hung around for awhile & eventually joined.

Maybe someone from dpreview could give us a little more background on Fred as a photographer. Here is a link to some of his photos
http://www.fredmiranda.com/hosting/showgallery.php?thumb=1&stype=2&perpage=12&sort=1&cat=500&si=Fred_Miranda

Dave

[wxwax]

Great tip! I've been frequenting www.keh.com but that Fred Miranda site looks pretty friggin' popular. Is he a well-known photog?

That's an excellent suggestion by dkapp. In fact, I bought most of my lenses used over the last 3-4 months, all but one in tip top condition. The Fred Miranda classifieds are a pretty good place, by far the most active buy/sell forum that I've seen. Which means you have to watch them like a hawk and bid immediately if you see something you like and youi trust the seller.

As kapp said, it's very self policing, to a fault really. Other sites I've used are www.photo.net and www.robgalbraith.com. You'll see the same seller show up on more than one site. There's also a Canon forum at http://photography-on-the.net/forum/ but their buy/sell isn't very active.

You'll have to register to make contact with sellers at these sites, but it's free. I used the same info I use here at dgrin.

[PerezDesignGroup]

Update!!!

In a sudden and unexplainable eBay moment, I bought this camera (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3831867720&category=30099&sspagename=rvi:1:1). Seriously...I did. I don't know why I gravitate towards these types of cameras but if I get any decent shots you guys will be the first to see them.:thumb

Hopefully it'll let me pass the time until Photokina.

[cletus]

Update!!!

In a sudden and unexplainable eBay moment, I bought this camera (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3831867720&category=30099&sspagename=rvi:1:1). Seriously...I did. I don't know why I gravitate towards these types of cameras but if I get any decent shots you guys will be the first to see them.:thumb

Hopefully it'll let me pass the time until Photokina.
Well done! If you get any pictures at all with it be sure to let us see!

[wxwax]

Fascinating. Looks like a good learning tool. In researching the camera, I came across a recommendation to use the 'sunny 16' rule when exposing shots. Here's a good summary. (http://www.photomigrations.com/articles/0403200.htm)

[dkapp]

Update!!!

In a sudden and unexplainable eBay moment, I bought this camera (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3831867720&category=30099&sspagename=rvi:1:1). Seriously...I did. I don't know why I gravitate towards these types of cameras but if I get any decent shots you guys will be the first to see them.:thumb

Hopefully it'll let me pass the time until Photokina.

That looks like a lot of fun. I almost bought a Holga last night, but my girlfriend talked me out of it. I love impulse buys, for that reason I'm not allowed to go to ebay anymore :(

I can't wait to see what you can do with your new cam.

Dave

[dkapp]

Fascinating. Looks like a good learning tool. In researching the camera, I came across a recommendation to use the 'sunny 16' rule when exposing shots. Here's a good summary. (http://www.photomigrations.com/articles/0403200.htm)

Good link. I've heard 'sunny 16' before, but I never knew what it was about.

Dave

[PerezDesignGroup]

Fascinating. Looks like a good learning tool. In researching the camera, I came across a recommendation to use the 'sunny 16' rule when exposing shots. Here's a good summary. (http://www.photomigrations.com/articles/0403200.htm)
Woo-hoo! You just saved my a$$! Thanks :D I'll be cut n pasting that to the back of this brick!

I'm really looking forward to this camera for 2 things...

1. Black and White Film
2. Velvia film

You guys have any other film to recommend/experiment with? How about online photo processing? The only experience I really have with that is limited to Snapfish (and it was pretty decent for my needs at the time).

[DoctorIt]

$3 rangefinder cam - can't go wrong. Ebay is a treasure trove those kind of toys. A friend just picked up a Nikonos underwater cam, played with it, and sold it off again a month later. Ahhh, ebay!

[zero-zero]

Strangely, where I live "sunny f16" will consistently underexpose shots by one stop unless it's "friggen' sunny f16" or "I'm at the beach/snow sunny f16". For my "run of the mill sunny" days, it's "sunny f11".

Re the Canon/Nikon choice, Nikon better come up with a new product to replace my D1x or I'll be taking the Canon plunge real soon. The one-two punch of a "1Ds + Mark II" team is luring me in like a chorus of mermaids in a storm. And to think there might be a substitute for the 1Ds seeing the light at Photokina... :scratch

[wxwax]

That looks like a lot of fun. I almost bought a Holga last night, but my girlfriend talked me out of it. I love impulse buys, for that reason I'm not allowed to go to ebay anymore :(

I can't wait to see what you can do with your new cam.

Dave

I think a Holga would be fun. Kinda kitschy photography, and perhaps expensive w/film, but cool results.

After seeing what PDG bought, I almost bought a Zorki (http://www.btinternet.com/~stowupland/index.htm) yesterday! I was thinking it would be good for grainy B&W photos, and a great learning tool.

[wxwax]

Strangely, where I live "sunny f16" will consistently underexpose shots by one stop unless it's "friggen' sunny f16" or "I'm at the beach/snow sunny f16". For my "run of the mill sunny" days, it's "sunny f11".



How interesting. I wonder why the discrepancy? Is it the difference between clear skies and some haze/cloud cover?

[gubbs]

I think a Holga would be fun. Kinda kitschy photography, and perhaps expensive w/film, but cool results.

After seeing what PDG bought, I almost bought a Zorki (http://www.btinternet.com/%7Estowupland/index.htm) yesterday! I was thinking it would be good for grainy B&W photos, and a great learning tool. Hey Sid
I have a Zorki, a 4K I think, my Dad bought it back in the 70's, complete with 28mm / 135mm lenses and a viewfinder, here's picture taken with it at Trafalgar Square when you were allowed to feed the pigeons. That's me with the ankle swingers !! :D
http://Gubbs.smugmug.com/photos/546622-M-1.jpg

It's scanned from a slide. I need to work on the colours etc, or maybe rescan now I have a bit more experience. There is about 300 to do though & I just don't get the time..

[pathfinder]

How interesting. I wonder why the discrepancy? Is it the difference between clear skies and some haze/cloud cover?
Arthur Morris in his book " The Art of Bird Photography" has a whole chapter devoted to the sunny 16 rule and he is very specific that it only applies between 10 am and 3 or 4pm with front lit medium toned subjects. Side lighting or backlighting require exposure changes of course. ALso cloud cover would account for 1 f stop of light loss. But I know that Z-Z knows this too, so it is curious why he says f11. Has he had his shutter speed calibrated or is this more than one camera. Does his handheld light meter meter this way f11 also? Or is the sun fading in Spain only? :cry

Kodak film always had recommended exposure data printed on the inside of the 35mm box, which was basically based on sunny f16 1/ISO.

[zero-zero]

Could be the smog cover. All those cigar smokers are really clouding the sun, you know. Or maybe my concept of "sunny" is too lax, living in northern Spain (very different from the topical south). :D

Whatever it is, it happens with any camera or meter. If the sun is out, f11. To use f16 it has to look like Baywatch is on.

Funny people caught on this off-topic and did not reply to my "1Ds+Mark II" comment. :scratch

[wxwax]

Funny people caught on this off-topic and did not reply to my "1Ds+Mark II" comment. :scratch

Prolly because those cameras are out of our league. :dunno Having seen Nikon trump the 300D with the D70, I can't imagine they'll let the 1DmkII go unchallenged. I don't know much about the higher mp cameras in Nikon's range, I'm afraid. But if they're in danger of losing you, then they have problems with their professional line, I should have thought.

[wxwax]

Hey Sid
I have a Zorki, a 4K I think, my Dad bought it back in the 70's, complete with 28mm / 135mm lenses and a viewfinder, here's picture taken with it at Trafalgar Square when you were allowed to feed the pigeons. That's me with the ankle swingers !! :D
http://Gubbs.smugmug.com/photos/546622-S-1.jpg

It's scanned from a slide. I need to work on the colours etc, or maybe rescan now I have a bit more experience. There is about 300 to do though & I just don't get the time..

That kinda looks like a Holga shot!

[mercphoto]

Prolly because those cameras are out of our league. :dunno Having seen Nikon trump the 300D with the D70, I can't imagine they'll let the 1DmkII go unchallenged.

Canon and Nikon will keep leap-frogging each other. Canon can claim the 300D was the first affordable digital SLR. Nikon comes out later with more features. Canon will do the same back to Nikon. Etc. It will be interesting to watch happen. :)

But what is a "*ist D" ? Not familiar with that term.

[patch29]

Funny people caught on this off-topic and did not reply to my "1Ds+Mark II" comment. :scratch

I was not going to go there and knock Nikon and praise Canon, but Nikon is definitely missing the boat in the pro arena. No FF sensor, the D1x max res of 5.5? uniterpolated is behind both the 1D mkII and 1Ds. They come out with the D2H which to me equals a modernized 1D (faster ram, nicer user features) when Canon shortly there after comes out with the mk II.

I jumped ship over two years ago. I was a die hard Nikon users. I had six film bodies and and array of fast glass. I took a long hard look and my industry was going digital with or without me. I think if I waited I would have been left in the dust. I was a very happy Nikon user, never even wanted to look at a Canon camera, until the 1Ds and no new camera on the horizon from Nikon. I left and have not looked back. It took a while to recoup my costs and I miss my Nikon's but they were not up to the job I needed them to do. I was a manual focus shoot with the Nikons (owned all AF gear, but never used it), since I started with Canon is has been an almost complete reversal, I shoot almost all AF now. Canon works great for me and I have been very happy. When I bought my camera and a friend compared the 1Ds files to his D1x, he sold all his gear the next day and bought a full Canon outfit. He too is glad he made the choice to not stick with Nikon. I feel Nikon brought this upon themselves, many others have made the same move. I do not think too many have gone Canon to Nikon recently.

At this point zero-zero it is a tough call. You have really waited. I would look at Photokina and see what happens. If Nikon does not release a new pro body and Canon does, that might be all the spark you need. Who knows Nikon may come out with the best camera and sensor yet (maybe something Foveon-like that really works at all ISO's and high mpx). It is impossible to know. I wish they would, even if they did it would not bring me back to Nikon. I do not know if I will ever go back, my current 1DmkII's do the job I need them too. Now that the mkII's are out I may even sell the 1Ds and either not replace it, or if they come out with a revised 1Ds get that. All I can say is I and a friend I work a lot with made the switch and have not looked back. If Nikon were to not release anything in the next year I would think you would be happy too. It was a big first step for me, but it has worked out and continues to be the right path for me. At the very least Nikon should divulge it's future production plans to keep the users they have, before the rest jump ship, perhaps it is a sign they are having difficulty creating what they want? :dunno

Good luck with your decision. Let me know if you have any questions I can help answer. I think the future will be bright with both Nikon and Canon, just a question of when and what.

[pathfinder]

Could be the smog cover. All those cigar smokers are really clouding the sun, you know. Or maybe my concept of "sunny" is too lax, living in northern Spain (very different from the topical south). :D

Whatever it is, it happens with any camera or meter. If the sun is out, f11. To use f16 it has to look like Baywatch is on.

Funny people caught on this off-topic and did not reply to my "1Ds+Mark II" comment. :scratch:rofl Sorry Z-Z -- I missed your comment about the 1DMkll. I have had mine about a month and the thing I really like about it besides its great autofocus, and great expoisure meter, is that the 1000 ISO is so useable. Much better noise wise than 800 film ever was - or even 400 film. I think most of my night shots here
http://pathfinder.smugmug.com/gallery/185966/1/7139496

were shot at ISO 1000. Now that is really cool!:clap I have turned into a vampire for photography, running around at night shooting pictures - something I never did before.

This is beginning to sound like a mea culpa thread, but I too was a long time Nikon user, FM3a body and Nikon lenses - never really was an AF user either.
I jumped ship to the white lenses last summer with the 10D, and the Canon glass just keeps sucking me in. And I don't miss the Nikon line either. I should sell my Nikon stuff, but it is hard to let go I guess. Hah I still own an Olympus OM-2 and assorted glass for it too. I need to clean out my photographic closet I think. Might get enuf to get me some more L glass.:1drink

But if you already own a lot on Nikon glass, replacement costs can be substantial, but I doubt that Canon lenses will be any cheaper in the future as Canon gains more and more pro users.

[zero-zero]

Waxy, Patch's post really nailed it - the pro lineup on the Nikon front is looking rather dismal right now. The only truly pro camera they have released in a long time is the D2h and that's too little, too late. Back in the film days about 80% of the photogs I know around me used Nikon gear, but now I'm estimating only 30% do so, noting that NONE of them are news guys and that most are making do with either the D1x or pro-am cameras like the D70. Yes, the leapfrogging will happen eventually, but we've waited for too long without new stuff.

I really need a pro camera that I can use in my studio, but my D1x files pale in comparison to Patch's 1Ds. And if I want action, I'm offered a meager 4 megapixels in a horribly noisy d2h? the excuse is that newspaper guys are fine with that size, but we do nature magazines and posters and 4 Mp is just not enough for us. Meanwhile, Canon lures me with a very refined Mark II that offers everything I need and then some. The only reason I’ve waited so long is that I’m now shooting less than before, with the graphic design section of my studio keeping me busy, but this I know: if Nikon doesn’t show up at Photokina with a really, really sweet pro-caliber body that will blow at least either the Mark II or the 1Ds to dust, it’s not only me that is going to jump ship: check the pro forums and you will see that this is the most awaited Photokina in years. We have already abandoned hope of seeing a new camera that will do big files and a fast rate, given how recent the D2h is, but at least we need a D2x, or Nikon’s sales are going to suffer big time in the pro segment. :dunno

[wxwax]

Great posts, very informative. Patch has told me a few times about his conversion. Z-Z, thanks for the education about the issues with the d1x and d2h.

As an amateur, I find myself lusting after the high ISO/low noise that Pathfinder mentions. File size isn't as important. Yet.

[zero-zero]

To a point, it's a give and take. If I have to fill one page with a file that's bigger than I need, I can live with a bit of noise or other problems as I'm gonna throw away some info anyway. If I use a small file, every pixel counts, and you want them as clean and trouble-free as they come. But when the file is as big and as clean as those a 1Ds can produce, it's time for us Nikonians to go home.

Of course, this quality vs quantity balance comes as a surprise to some guys that think their 8 megapixel point-and-shoot can outperform a 5.5 D1x, without realizing that not all pixels are created equal. That's what's saving our butts now.

Amusing totally unrelated fact: A Canon G2 (older, but still a great performer) will show at ISO 200 more noise than a D1x at ISO 1600. I checked a couple weeks ago using Noise Ninja.

[gubbs]

To a point, it's a give and take. If I have to fill one page with a file that's bigger than I need, I can live with a bit of noise or other problems as I'm gonna throw away some info anyway. If I use a small file, every pixel counts, and you want them as clean and trouble-free as they come. But when the file is as big and as clean as those a 1Ds can produce, it's time for us Nikonians to go home.

Of course, this quality vs quantity balance comes as a surprise to some guys that think their 8 megapixel point-and-shoot can outperform a 5.5 D1x, without realizing that not all pixels are created equal. That's what's saving our butts now.

Amusing totally unrelated fact: A Canon G2 (older, but still a great performer) will show at ISO 200 more noise than a D1x at ISO 1600. I checked a couple weeks ago using Noise Ninja.
I can believe that, my 8080 shows a lot of noise at 200, I've seen a few shots on here at 1600 that are much cleaner!

[PerezDesignGroup]

Just an update. I got the 300d. It arrived today and I got the kit on ebay for $750. I was upset 'cuz someone on FM later posted a full kit plus grip for $700 :cry But any-who...

First impressions? To put it bluntly "Holy S**t!, This camera rocks!" This camera is more than enough for the next year or two. Can't wait to enter challenges now. :)

Only gripe....it has nearly 50,000 shutter actuations. But the camera is in flawless condition. One would think it was brand new. Not a single scratch, dent or flaw anywhere to be found. Focus is spot-on and FAST! And I can't believe people complain about the startup or write time. After using an A70 this thing is like a rocket :thumb

Get ready for all the noob 300d questions.:wink And thanks to everyone for the input and help they offered. I had considered the 20d, but I just don't have that kinda cash.

[wxwax]

Congrats, PDG! That's a huge step-up you've made. I really look forward to seeing what shots it will produce in your hands, as you get used to what it can do. Are you eyeing additional lenses?

[Taff]

Have you seen the new D2X, I was about to change to Canon, but I'm going to wait a wee while.
I've already got a D100 and a D70 but want something quicker/better!