The Hybrid Darkroom: Film and Digital

[DavidTO]

Let's talk film!

How do you integrate shooting film into your digital workflow? Tips and tricks? Gear recommendations? Let's hear your stories! :ear

[DavidTO]

OK, I'll go first. :D

I recently decided to dive back into shooting and processing my own film after a hiatus of a few decades. It all started with the purchase of the Horizon Perfekt (http://microsites.lomography.com/horizon/tipstricks). You can read about my experience with that camera here (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=192022).

My goal is to do it all myself: shoot, process, scan, process. :D I'm using a changing bag and processing the film in the bathroom. So far I'm shooting Ilford HP5+ and processing in Kodak HC110 (B). I'm having so much fun with it. It's like magic.

I bought a scanner (Epson v700), and really hated the slow, painful process of scanning the images. I griped about it to Marc (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=102082), and he told me to ditch the scanner and get a Beseler Dual Mode Slide Duplicator. These are an interesting piece of 1970's technology designed to make internegatives or interpositives. Basically, it's a camera set up to take a picture of a slide or negative. It's a box with a strobe in it, a special lens attached to a bellows that attaches to your camera. When you attach it to a digital camera you end up with a better capture of the image than you would get with a scanner.

I had a hard time finding one at a decent price. The problem is, you never know quite what you're getting. Most people who are selling them don't really know what they are of if they're working properly.

After a bunch of searching I finally found Tom Martin (http://members.bitstream.net/tlmartin/copiers.html)'s site. He sells the british equivalent of the Beseler, the Bowens Illumitran. Great name. Tom is awesome, and if you're looking to get into this, he's the guy to go to. He knows what he's talking about, has a rather large inventory of these things, and was so helpful in making sure I got exactly what I needed.

So, my Illumitran is in transit, I'll have it by next weekend and can report back on it after I get it set up and running. I'm really excited about it! :barb

[ziggy53]

Be sure to read the cautionary tale in this thread:

http://thedambook.com/smf/index.php?topic=3959.0

[DavidTO]

Be sure to read the cautionary tale in this thread:

http://thedambook.com/smf/index.php?topic=3959.0

Hah! High voltage would NOT be good. Good thing I ended up getting an Illumtran! :deal

[DavidTO]

The Bowens Illumtran came yesterday, and I was able to set it up and test it today:

http://smugmug.com/photos/1214134303_aUSgr-S.jpghttp://smugmug.com/photos/1214134533_Z7sca-S.jpghttp://smugmug.com/photos/1214134426_ZBQve-S.jpghttp://smugmug.com/photos/1214134617_8w575-S.jpg


My first big task was to cut the negative holders so they could accommodate my double-wide Horizon Perfekt negatives.

Then on to make mistake after mistake (I was learning, after all!)

I'm not going to say it's easy or perfect, but I do prefer it to scanning (at least to scanning on the Epson v700 flatbed).

Here's a side by side, Epson on the left, Illumitran on the right:

http://smugmug.com/photos/1205510514_YCJ3d-M.jpghttp://smugmug.com/photos/1214129227_FTmSX-M.jpg

Of course, there are a ton of variables between the two, aside from the capture device.

[BradfordBenn]

There are definitely some differences but I am not sure one is better than the other. Just like changing lenses on a camera, maybe changing scanner for effect.

[DavidTO]

There are definitely some differences but I am not sure one is better than the other. Just like changing lenses on a camera, maybe changing scanner for effect.

Yah, and it's far from scientific. There are too many variables to even start pixel-peeping, so I'm not including any 100% crops.

[BradfordBenn]

But the most important question, is it satisfying?

[DavidTO]

But the most important question, is it satisfying?

So far it's a mix of satisfying and frustrating. :D

[ziggy53]

Which lens did you end up getting?

[DavidTO]

Which lens did you end up getting?

The Schneider-Kreuznach Repro-Claron f8 55mm, but I'm going to try the f4 50mm Schneider, since I'm having a little trouble with the double-wide 35mm frame, and will have trouble with 120 if I end up shooting any of that: I have to fully compress the bellows to get focus, and it reduces my confidence in the focus, being at the extreme. The 50mm should alleviate that.

[jeffreaux2]

David,

Last year I made the jump back to film as well. For my purposes, I decided to shoot color film and reserve the ability to jump to BW or color later in the process. I use a local mom and pop who develops the negatives and scans them for me. Then, I process as I desire. They do a very good job for their part in the process.

Im using a twin lens reflex medium format camera. It was unweildy at first. O hell....it still is...as everything in the pop up viewfinder is bass ackwards, but it does force a good deal of thought into composing. All else is manual. It's a Yashica Mat 124G.

Id like to get a scanner eventually to save the scanning costs. The Epson V700 is on my short list.:dunno

http://www.jkmann.com/photos/852510199_6rHBe-L.jpg

http://www.jkmann.com/photos/873560495_PMtsK-L.jpg


http://www.jkmann.com/photos/902719862_YhqvD-L.jpg

http://www.jkmann.com/photos/894827114_Q3hpb-L.jpg

http://www.jkmann.com/photos/894827442_JpmY8-L.jpg

[DavidTO]

Jeff, that looks great! I've been severely tempted to have the film processed and scanned elsewhere, but the DIY allure was too great. I really want to get a camera like that, I had a bid in on a Rollei for $200 at ebay, which lasted 5 days, then I was outbid. I'm going to get some camera in that format, though. I'm also thinking about trying some C41 processing in the bathroom, as well. It looks to be twice as hard as processing black and white, but heck, b/w is so easy already, can't be that bad.

It's funny, I really love the double wide pano look of my camera, and I also really love the square aspect of the twin lens reflex cameras. It's the middle ground that's not holding my attention lately.

[jeffreaux2]

IMO the Yashica Mat 124G is a reallly solid camera, however if I had to do it all over again Id probably skip on it....and any of the rollies and instead put together a Mamiya C330 Pro Kit. The bellows allows for closer focusing (great for portraits...which is the bulk of my photography) and they also accept interchangeable lenses. Both of these atributes put it much heavier and bulkier than the 124G. The C330 has no meter (no a deal breaker)....the 124G's meter works just fine.

....of course...had I gone that route Id probably have spent more time testing, researching, buying glass instead of just shooting photographs....:dunno


I can do that stuff with digital!!!:D

[DavidTO]

I'm working on another Rollei on ebay. 1 day left! :D

[schmoo]

IMO the Yashica Mat 124G is a reallly solid camera, however if I had to do it all over again Id probably skip on it....and any of the rollies and instead put together a Mamiya C330 Pro Kit. The bellows allows for closer focusing (great for portraits...which is the bulk of my photography) and they also accept interchangeable lenses. Both of these atributes put it much heavier and bulkier than the 124G. The C330 has no meter (no a deal breaker)....the 124G's meter works just fine.

....of course...had I gone that route Id probably have spent more time testing, researching, buying glass instead of just shooting photographs....:dunno


I can do that stuff with digital!!!:D

Jeff I remember when you first posted those pics on Dgrin and I still love them to this day. I recently took the leap to film (in more than a Holga capacity) and I'm loving it. I too have been eyeing a Rollei or a Yashica, so if you have any advice or are planning on selling, lemmie know. :D

A friend recently offered to sell me his medium format film camera with all the lenses and accoutrements but I think I am looking for a more simple fixed-lens TLR option like the Rollei. If I really need interchangeable lenses I can stick with my 5D!

[jeffreaux2]

Jeff I remember when you first posted those pics on Dgrin and I still love them to this day. I recently took the leap to film (in more than a Holga capacity) and I'm loving it. I too have been eyeing a Rollei or a Yashica, so if you have any advice or are planning on selling, lemmie know. :D

A friend recently offered to sell me his medium format film camera with all the lenses and accoutrements but I think I am looking for a more simple fixed-lens TLR option like the Rollei. If I really need interchangeable lenses I can stick with my 5D!

Hey Steph!


I have about $300 invested. Half of that was the accessorie lenses....and while they are in A+ perfect condition....I really have no use for them. Camera cost me $120 ish.

Admittedly, I did very little research before buying the camera....but...I got lucky with it. Many of the old medium format cameras do NOT have a light meter built in. The 124G does have a meter. Its accuracy is questionable......especially since the correctly volted batteries are no longer manufactured.....but since film is VERY forgiving in regards to exposure it works well enough.


...and sure...you can use a hand held meter...or use one of your digital rigs to acertain exposure info.....but....:dunno......IMO....getting away from all the extra gear is what makes it fun. Who wants to taint that?


...oh...

Not For Sale!:D

[DavidTO]

My journey continues. I've got a C41 processing kit (http://www.freestylephoto.biz/66015-Rollei-Compard-Digibase-C-41-Midi-Color-Processing-Kit-20-roll?cat_id=1001) on the way. I'm going to try processing color film in the bathroom and capturing it with my Illumitran. I also added a Zorki to my film camera collection.

http://smugmug.com/photos/1230892282_xJFaJ-L.jpg

And I'm still enjoying the Horizon:
http://smugmug.com/photos/1229463320_gfCBS-L.jpg

http://smugmug.com/photos/1229462969_cxwZh-L.jpg

[DavidTO]

I've shot and processed my first roll of color film. Because of the double-wide images of my camera it's not an option to have it scanned, at least not at a price I'm gonna spend. I had the roll processed only at CVS for $2.19. I wanted to have it processed professionally first before I venture into bathroom processing of color so that I could work on the rest of my workflow knowing that I hadn't already screwed it up in processing.

Once I got the film home I shot it on my slide duplicator and immediately ran into the problem of how to process. Scanner software is set up to deal with the orange cast of color negative film, but PS, not so much. I ended up downloading ColorNeg, a plug in that unfortunately only runs in 32bit mode on the Mac, at least for the time being.

It's a steep learning curve, but I'm having fun.

1
http://smugmug.com/photos/1238817551_x7eNu-XL.jpg


2
http://smugmug.com/photos/1238808874_DjTiZ-XL.jpg


3
http://smugmug.com/photos/1238810351_dNUjj-XL.jpg

[jeffreaux2]

David,

Im very interested in hearing how the color processing works out for you. I had a long discussion with the guy who does my processing, and did quite a bit of research via som Flickr groups that turned me off of it. The general consensus was that the temperature would be too hard to control at home without specialized gear. The black and white processing requires much looser control.

Keep us posted!

....Did you get a TLR yet?....did Schmoo?:dunno

[schmoo]

I personally like the "weird" color cast of your scanning, but hey I love the surprises that come with film. Even if they are workflow-based. I particularly like this one.

http://smugmug.com/photos/1238808874_DjTiZ-S.jpg

Hell, I even like the light leak on the left half.

Jeff yes I did get my TLR! Scored a Rolleiflex 2.8E a little while ago but I haven't really shot with it because I took it to the shop for a CLA. I'll have it back in hand within the next two weeks. I am counting the days...

http://www.schmootography.com/Portraits/365/365-ish/rolleiflex-love/1229825906_MGjaX-M.jpg

In the workflow vein, there's been a lot of discussion offline about scanners and such. I'm still highly considering an Epson v500 for my medium-format scanning, but haven't jumped yet. What I'm hearing about the software scares me. :lol3

[jeffreaux2]

Wow!!!

That's a beautiful camera Steph!! Congrats on the new baby!:wink

I had to replace the light seals in mine when I bought it, but everything else was fine. I found a guy on ebay who cuts and sells light seal kits for many of the popular older cameras. It was a fun...and sticky project, but I was pleased with the finished product.


Sooo....do tell....what is so scary about this scanning software?:dunno

Enquiring minds ya know?

[schmoo]

Cool! Are you talking about interslice? I'm not sure if the Rollei has leaks but my new old Soviet FED2 rangefinder sure does. I've actually been emailing back and forth with Jon tonight trying to get a custom set of foam baffling! :lol3 So far I'm happy with the experience but yes I am finding out that lots of old cameras are leaky. It looks like the fix worked really well for your Yashica because I'd never have known looking at the pics.

I'm not sure about specifics with the software since I've not done it myself. I'm sure David, Ian or a few other folks can fill you in on that. I just kept seeing reviews all over about how frustrating it is, but I have been told there is an alternative: http://www.hamrick.com/

[jeffreaux2]

Cool! Are you talking about interslice? I'm not sure if the Rollei has leaks but my new old Soviet FED2 rangefinder sure does. I've actually been emailing back and forth with Jon tonight trying to get a custom set of foam baffling! :lol3 So far I'm happy with the experience but yes I am finding out that lots of old cameras are leaky. It looks like the fix worked really well for your Yashica because I'd never have known looking at the pics.

I'm not sure about specifics with the software since I've not done it myself. I'm sure David, Ian or a few other folks can fill you in on that. I just kept seeing reviews all over about how frustrating it is, but I have been told there is an alternative: http://www.hamrick.com/

Yes!

Interslice is the ticket!

The instructions were very thorough and well written. I never shot the Yashica before I replaced the seals. When I got it the old foam door seals were all but gone to a sticky gooey mess. I had partially disassembled the top of the camera to get the ground glass and mirror out for cleaning. They were covered in black fine particles . These turned out to be from another seal that goes between the viewfinder door and the light meter. This one was totally shot...which could have...I guess effected the metering.

The Yashica is rumoured to suffer from reflections and flasring when shooting toward the sun. I have only run a few rolls of film through it. I did shoot towards the sun for at least one portrait. The sky didnt fall, and there was no major flaring in the image. So....:dunno

That Rollie is really a jewel. It's a bit more sophisticated looking than the Yashicas. I gotta say though...I REALLY like all the mechanics of the old TLRs. The lense mount travelling in and out for focus....knobs and winders all the way around....and when I partially disassembled mine....good grief! Theres a LOT of $#!T going on in there when you move one of those knobs!

It's like using a piece of art to create art. I can't wait to see what you do with it, and read the stories that go along with the images.:wink

[DavidTO]

David,

Im very interested in hearing how the color processing works out for you. I had a long discussion with the guy who does my processing, and did quite a bit of research via som Flickr groups that turned me off of it. The general consensus was that the temperature would be too hard to control at home without specialized gear. The black and white processing requires much looser control.

Keep us posted!

....Did you get a TLR yet?....did Schmoo?:dunno

I'll let you know. The C41 kit I got plays pretty fast and loose with development temps. Info here. (http://www.maco-photo.de/files/images/C41_InstructionManual.pdf)

For now I'm having my color processed at CVS, since there are already so many variables. I've yet to get a roll of color through my Zorki, and I just don't trust the exposure on the Horizon pano cam. I think that drastically affects my color. Even still, there are shots that are easy to get the color right and others that just totally kick my butt. Again, I think that comes to proper/improper exposure.

Black and white is definitely easier, but I have to say, looking at those instructions that the C41 process doesn't look that bad, either.

As for the Rollei, I was following an auction on my drive back from a few days in Morro Bay with the family. I came home to a leaky roof, so I let it go. And really, I'm so busy with what I got that I just don't need another distraction. Yet. I'm gonna get one, someday!

[schmoo]

I just wanted to throw this out there: So far I am much happier with the cheap film and cheap processing/scanning that I did through Walgreens than I am with the pricey pro film and pricey pro lab.

Exhibit A:
http://www.schmootography.com/photos/1215538059_peunH-S.jpg

Exhibit B:
http://www.schmootography.com/photos/1240547736_JYMTr-S.jpg

Not sure what it is, or just coincidence. Maybe it's like the difference between shooting RAW and shooting JPG? :dunno

[jeffreaux2]

Steph-

Does Walgreens or CVS do medium format processing?

I havent researched your rollei...does it have meter? If not...whats your strategy there?


David-

Ive had a chance to see quite a few of the pano film shots here and there and I really like the look and feel of the ones with people in them. The W/A gives a really cool perspective that adds a little drama to the capture. Upping the pj feel for those images. I think you have a knack for pj type captures as well!:thumb

[DavidTO]

David-

Ive had a chance to see quite a few of the pano film shots here and there and I really like the look and feel of the ones with people in them. The W/A gives a really cool perspective that adds a little drama to the capture. Upping the pj feel for those images. I think you have a knack for pj type captures as well!:thumb

Thanks! Yah, I find that the kind of pano shot that first comes to mind is boring on this camera. The beauty of it is that it shoots the pano live, so you can have people in it. Sure, sometimes they get smudged, but that's cool, too!

I've also tried it vertically, and it's not nearly as cool. Much less impressive.

[schmoo]

Steph-

Does Walgreens or CVS do medium format processing?

I havent researched your rollei...does it have meter? If not...whats your strategy there?



No, the local drugstores don't but the pro lab does. I've been taking my film from the Diana to them with pretty good results (I guess... hard to tell sometimes with lomography :lol3 ). I'm hoping to develop there and maybe by then I'll have my own scanner.

The 2.8E does have a meter and it works, but I understand that the selenium cells can wear out and lose accuracy. The guy who sold it to me recommended setting it to double the ISO to get it right, but I tend to use one of two iPhone light meter apps for both my film cameras.

[ziggy53]

Just a heads up for 6x6 medium format TLR owners, most of those cameras can easily be adapted to use 35mm film. You can get panoramic images of 24mm x 60mm as a result. Of course the normal orientation is portrait so you have to rotate the camera for landscape.

If the camera has a red window for the frame counter you'll have to block that window, of course. You should also load and unload the film in darkness since otherwise you'll lose a lot of leader and there is no rewind on most cameras (the Yashica 635 being an exception that "does" have a rewinder.) Be sure to let any film processor know that you want the film returned "uncut" or it can get sliced oddly otherwise.

You'll have to find a way to scan/print the resulting images but that's half the fun. :wink

[jeffreaux2]

.

but I tend to use one of two iPhone light meter apps for both my film cameras.

I knew if I asked enough questions you'd eventually fess up to some magic trick you were pulling. I never knew such a thing existed.

I find that the exposure for film is very forgiving. I use the meter in the Yashica. If for instance I want to expose for a back lit situation I just over expose..."some". :dunno The needle on the meter is shaped like a little open ended wrench. I just cheat it over or under a tad using my basic knowledge of photography and exposure to guide my guesses. Of course this all works on a sliding scale of sorts...since EVERYTHING changes as the battery gets older.:rofl This is all very technical and scientific huh?:wink

Anyway...I think you will be pleased with the lessons that TLR can give in composition and on slowing down and thinking through the shots. The ass backwards viewfinder can be frustrating...some....but it does make you slow down and think before jabbing the shutter. We could all use a little of THAT.:wink

[ziggy53]

...

I find that the exposure for film is very forgiving. I use the meter in the Yashica. If for instance I want to expose for a back lit situation I just over expose..."some". ...

Negative films are indeed forgiving and have a broad exposure latitude.

Slide/reversal films are much less forgiving. I tend to use a dSLR as an exposure meter for those films. A modern dSLR, especially one with spot metering and if you use a zoom lens to exaggerate the effect, can be invaluable for slide exposures. You can literally pinpoint objects in the scene and choose the appropriate camera settings to match the entire scene.

[schmoo]

Awesome tips Ziggy, thanks!

Since 90% of my exposures come out dark, I think I am just going to end up overexposing by 2/3 stops from here on out. :rolleyes

[DavidTO]

I just wanted to throw this out there: So far I am much happier with the cheap film and cheap processing/scanning that I did through Walgreens than I am with the pricey pro film and pricey pro lab.

Exhibit A:
http://www.schmootography.com/photos/1215538059_peunH-S.jpg

Exhibit B:
http://www.schmootography.com/photos/1240547736_JYMTr-S.jpg

Not sure what it is, or just coincidence. Maybe it's like the difference between shooting RAW and shooting JPG? :dunno

Was either roll past the expiration date?

[Jane B.]

Do any of these cameras that you guys are using take the #675 button battery? I have a Vivitar 35mm film camera from the mid 1970's that uses that button battery for a match needle meter. I have also worn a hearing aid for many years and discovered that the batteries are interchangeable! The main point is that the hearing aid version (which comes in packs of 6) is cheaper per battery. I found out about this back then from a local camera shop owner who was also a friend of my folks. I found it worked well.

[schmoo]

Was either roll past the expiration date?

The first one may have been, but I'm not 100% certain. I believe that was a roll of film I had bought from the Netherlands, but doesn't film have a few years shelf life?

The second was a fresh roll of Ektar that I had just gotten from Freestyle.

[DavidTO]

There goes that theory!

[schmoo]

:lol3

[DavidTO]

So, I'm making a little progress, I think?

It's tough going from this to something that looks decent, not using a scanner or the software that comes with.

https://img.skitch.com/20110408-bydtx6dmd3bfan13w8x5skbcxt.png

This is my first version:
http://smugmug.com/photos/1240589346_yQyho-L.jpg

And here's my latest:
http://smugmug.com/photos/1243681644_yKsrs-L.jpg

Neither is right, I know, but I'm getting experience and hopefully I'm gonna lick this whole issue. :thumb

[schmoo]

I can't say I prefer one over the other (I like both) but I can definitely see you've toned down the magenta/orange cast in the latter. Nice!

Also cool to see what it looks like SOOS (straight out of scan :lol3 )

[DavidTO]

I'm honing in on this thing....

http://smugmug.com/photos/1243800268_RiNaD-L.jpg

[pathfinder]

David, that is one of the advantages of VueScan - it has the data for the various color negative emulsion's orange masks in its database, so that you should not have to deal with color balancing after the fact, so to speak.

[DavidTO]

David, that is one of the advantages of VueScan - it has the data for the various color negative emulsion's orange masks in its database, so that you should not have to deal with color balancing after the fact, so to speak.

Yah, I know. I downloaded a PS plugin that's supposed to have that, too. Didn't work so well. But I think I'm narrowing in on a workflow that will work.

But I can definitely see that once you add color into your mix that a scanner becomes more desirable/useful than with black and white.

[David_S85]

If I go back to film by the end of the year, I have all you people to blame.

OTOH, I still have a 2-spool film development tank, trays, tongs, greylabs timer, graduated mixing cylinders, enlarger, easel, etc, etc. All not being used ATM.

[schmoo]

If I go back to film by the end of the year, I have all you people to blame.


:rofl

You already have all the equipment, so what's the holdup?

[jeffreaux2]

:rofl

You already have all the equipment, so what's the holdup?

Maybe he...like me...is waiting for you to spill the beans on which Iphone exposure app I should be downloading.

Theres way more than two of them at the app store. What's workin' for you?:dunno

[DavidTO]

Maybe he...like me...is waiting for you to spill the beans on which Iphone exposure app I should be downloading.

Theres way more than two of them at the app store. What's workin' for you?:dunno

We're both using Expositor (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/expositor/id315686714?mt=8), which is an exposure table, and Pocket Light Meter (http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/pocket-light-meter/id381698089?mt=8).

[schmoo]

Maybe he...like me...is waiting for you to spill the beans on which Iphone exposure app I should be downloading.

Theres way more than two of them at the app store. What's workin' for you?:dunno

D'oh! Sorry, I should have mentioned that before. If you were being subtle about it in an earlier post, that went right over my head! :D

[jeffreaux2]

D'oh! Sorry, I should have mentioned that before. If you were being subtle about it in an earlier post, that went right over my head! :D


Ha Ha...it skated by your inner blonde!!!:rofl


J/K.....
.....subtle doesnt work so well in forums!:dunno

[schmoo]

Got another roll of film done this weekend. Unfortunately I am still having light leak issues. At first I thought, "How is that possible, because I taped the hell outta this thing!"

http://schmoo.smugmug.com/Travel/California-Adventures/Zymoglyph-Beach/02323/1246793504_LVYac-M-1.jpg

Apparently the leak isn't coming from any of the body seams. Guess that leaves the shutter.

I didn't realize it was so hard to have a simple 35mm film point-and-shoot. :bash

OTOH, shots like this are the reason why I keep fighting the fight. Maybe I just need to never take the FED outdoors!

http://www.schmootography.com/Travel/California-Adventures/Zymoglyph-Beach/01414/1246793344_zLaGV-M-2.jpg

[jeffreaux2]

OTOH = ?

FED = ?

:dunno

[DavidTO]

On the other hand.

FED is her camera's brand name.

:thumb

[jeffreaux2]

On the other hand.

FED is her camera's brand name.

:thumb


I think she was trying to make me pay for the blonde joke.:rolleyes

I got the apps. I need to get the black box out and do some shootin'!

[schmoo]

I think she was trying to make me pay for the blonde joke.:rolleyes

I got the apps. I need to get the black box out and do some shootin'!

:lol3 No worries, physically I'm so far from blonde but I am just about the most discombobulated person I know.

It's been a very long two weeks since I dropped my Rollei off for the CLA. When I think about it I get a physical pain in my stomach, I miss it so much. No normal person should feel this way about a freaking camera, right? :rolleyes

Can't wait to see more shots from your Yashica!

[DavidTO]

I'm getting much faster at this, and very nearly comfortable, I might say!


1
http://smugmug.com/photos/1254367598_7H88GsW-XL.jpg

2
http://smugmug.com/photos/1254367272_hGkHV2q-XL.jpg

3
http://smugmug.com/photos/1254367705_WdHpCMT-XL.jpg

[BradfordBenn]

You may be a photographer when the first thing you notice is where is David in these shots he is taking, and forget to look at the striking pictures he is presenting.

Nice shots.

[DavidTO]

You may be a photographer when the first thing you notice is where is David in these shots he is taking, and forget to look at the striking pictures he is presenting.

Nice shots.
Thanks, Brad! :barb

[schmoo]

These are Perfekt!

[DavidTO]

These are Perfekt!

Thanks, Schmoo! :davidto

[schmoo]

So I tried out Lomography's (http://www.lomography.com) new Lomo Lab, which was supposed to be this brand-new film developing and scanning service. You order online, they ship you envelopes, you mail it back and they send you an email with your scans.

I sent off two rolls of film and received notification of the first this morning. They look great (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=196208)!

http://www.schmootography.com/Lomography/Diana/Sprockets/i-5ZspNVf/0/XL/a2a7e211f96139d0b2025129b9d5a5eed6dde793-XL.jpg

Now, the question is: WTF happened to this service on their website? I can't find evidence that it ever existed anymore, and it's been less than a month. Maybe I lost my Google-fu, but maybe it already tanked. :scratch

Also, I thought I was going to receive my physical negatives in the mail, but they haven't mentioned it. Their customer service is dismal, but I'll ask and we'll see. I'm also missing the second roll that I mailed in.

I wouldn't really recommend this service, but what else is a girl gonna do while she's waiting for Amazon to deliver her scanner?

Harumph.

[DavidTO]

Plus the scanner will have a hard time getting the sprocket holes.

[schmoo]

This is schmoo, deflating.

[DavidTO]

This is schmoo, deflating.
Don't get too sad. You can probably do it using the 120 holder rather than the 35mm. My point was made crudely, and it's only that it's not how it's intended to work out of the box.

[rideswithchuck]

So I tried out Lomography's (http://www.lomography.com) new Lomo Lab, which was supposed to be this brand-new film developing and scanning service. You order online, they ship you envelopes, you mail it back and they send you an email with your scans.

I sent off two rolls of film and received notification of the first this morning. They look great (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=196208)!

http://www.schmootography.com/Lomography/Diana/Sprockets/i-5ZspNVf/0/XL/a2a7e211f96139d0b2025129b9d5a5eed6dde793-XL.jpg

Now, the question is: WTF happened to this service on their website? I can't find evidence that it ever existed anymore, and it's been less than a month. Maybe I lost my Google-fu, but maybe it already tanked. :scratch

Also, I thought I was going to receive my physical negatives in the mail, but they haven't mentioned it. Their customer service is dismal, but I'll ask and we'll see. I'm also missing the second roll that I mailed in.

I wouldn't really recommend this service, but what else is a girl gonna do while she's waiting for Amazon to deliver her scanner?

Harumph.
What kind of scanner did you wait for and did it do you any good with Perfekt panorama negatives?

[DavidTO]

What kind of scanner did you wait for and did it do you any good with Perfekt panorama negatives?

Chuck, Schmoo isn't shooting with the Perfekt. So far it's just you and me. I also don't believe that she's received her scanner yet, anyway.

[schmoo]

I did receive my scanner and I got initial positive results the first session. This is print scan vs negative scan:

http://www.schmootography.com/Lomography/Diana/Chernobyl-120/chernobyl-diana-lomo-20/1211649110_kVdBS-M.jpg http://www.schmootography.com/Lomography/Diana/Chernobyl-120/i-NK5R6d5/0/M/sergei-chernobyl-scan-2010-M.jpg

However, subsequent scans with the Epson V500 showed:

1) 1/3 of the time the scanner could not recognize that I had a negative in there, nor could it figure out how many frames I had in the holder. And I cannot find any sort of "manual" mode anywhere in the software. WTF!

2) 1/3 of the time the scanner plays dead and the software cannot detect a scanner at all. Even after a dozen reboots/cooling off/curse/get-another-beverage sessions, etc. WTF!

3) 1/3 of the time the scans I do get have horrible stripes (https://img.skitch.com/20110518-b7a835mfwhsj3r7hm1at9aci7s.jpg) that don't shift even when I flip the negative. WTF!!!

I'm pretty pissed right now, so I will wait until I chill out a bit before making a rational decision. But I'm 85% sure the v500 is getting shipped back to Amazon.

[DavidTO]

Before you return you should try the other software alternatives: Silverfast (http://www.silverfast.com/) and Vuescan (http://www.hamrick.com/).

[ziggy53]

I did receive my scanner and I got initial positive results the first session. This is print scan vs negative scan:

...


However, subsequent scans with the Epson V500 showed:

1) 1/3 of the time the scanner could not recognize that I had a negative in there, nor could it figure out how many frames I had in the holder. And I cannot find any sort of "manual" mode anywhere in the software. WTF!

2) 1/3 of the time the scanner plays dead and the software cannot detect a scanner at all. Even after a dozen reboots/cooling off/curse/get-another-beverage sessions, etc. WTF!

3) 1/3 of the time the scans I do get have horrible stripes (https://img.skitch.com/20110518-b7a835mfwhsj3r7hm1at9aci7s.jpg) that don't shift even when I flip the negative. WTF!!!

I'm pretty pissed right now, so I will wait until I chill out a bit before making a rational decision. But I'm 85% sure the v500 is getting shipped back to Amazon.

Using the Epson software look for a "Mode" dropdown and select "Professional Mode". This should give you access to all of the manual settings.

VueScan is much, much better software, and you can download a trial version to make sure it is compatible with your system:

http://www.hamrick.com/

----------------------

From the site:

"VueScan 9 x32 runs on Windows 7, Windows Vista, Windows XP, Windows 2000, Mac OS X 10.3.9+ and most Linux distributions.

VueScan 9 x64 runs on Windows 7 x64, Windows Vista x64, Windows XP x64, Mac OS X 10.5+ and 64-bit Linux."

[schmoo]

Thanks, guys. I will give those a try when I get home. A friend shed some light on the banding/stripes so I'll also be trying different DPIs.

I'm sure I'll be reporting back shortly...

[schmoo]

So far, VueScan works great! My only complaint today is that the WB of color scans look way off, but I'm sure I can fix that in post. It's just a shame for when I start shooting with nice film like Portra and Ektar that already come with great skin tones, etc.

Wrestling with my negatives tonight has raised a couple of questions I never asked before:

1) Is it recommended that one wear gloves when handling film? Even trying to be careful, I see fingerprints.
2) It's best to cut and sleeve film, yes? Most of my labs has just rolled them up and stuck 'em in a box, but that sucks for scanning (and storing).

[ziggy53]

So far, VueScan works great! My only complaint today is that the WB of color scans look way off, but I'm sure I can fix that in post. It's just a shame for when I start shooting with nice film like Portra and Ektar that already come with great skin tones, etc.

Wrestling with my negatives tonight has raised a couple of questions I never asked before:

1) Is it recommended that one wear gloves when handling film? Even trying to be careful, I see fingerprints.
2) It's best to cut and sleeve film, yes? Most of my labs has just rolled them up and stuck 'em in a box, but that sucks for scanning (and storing).

To make it easier to color balance and white balance later include a color target in an image frame. You can even automate the process if you wish but just including the target whenever you have a WB change will help by giving you some standards. Once you establish your standards corrections you should be able to use your correction process by the nature of the ambient light and particular film type, without necessarily needing a color target each time (as long as you can recognize the type of ambient light).

If you don't have a color target, use your own palm-of-your-hand. You should be able to use your palm and hand as a basic starting point for color correction and, because it is 3-dimensional, you generally get a pretty good target for mixed WB too.

Gloves are a very good idea for handling film. If you do handle film without gloves just be careful to touch only the edges to avoid leaving visible fingerprints and smudges. Cotton gloves tend to leave lint particles and strands so the newer microfiber gloves are best. Also, don't use hand lotion or other emollients for your hands and wash your hands often. If you touch your face or scratch an itch, it's best to wash your hands again.

If you should see fingerprints and finger smudges on critical image frames it's fairly important to remove them before they cause permanent damage. When in doubt, contact the film manufacturer and follow their recommendations.

If you are sure that you will continue to use a particular scanner/scanning process, then cut your film to strip lengths as long as your negative holders/carriers allow.

[DavidTO]

You really want to get the color balance as close as possible. You're not working in RAW, so you don't have as much latitude.

Glad to hear it's working out otherwise!

[schmoo]

Thanks, Ziggy! You're full of great info. It sounds like I will have to experiment with the WB. In layman's terms, how does a "color target" work? Like, do I slip in a piece of plain paper into the end of the holder or something? :scratch

I would assume that scanning your hand would leave significant marks on the glass...

[DavidTO]

I didn't play with Vuescan enough to know if this will work in that program or not, but on each roll you should have an area of completely unexposed and completely overexposed negative. You could set your black/white points to that. This would force them to neutral.

Vuescan should have profiles for the different film stocks, though, and should get the WB really close, I would think.

[ziggy53]

Thanks, Ziggy! You're full of great info. It sounds like I will have to experiment with the WB. In layman's terms, how does a "color target" work? Like, do I slip in a piece of plain paper into the end of the holder or something? :scratch

I would assume that scanning your hand would leave significant marks on the glass...

For instance, you could purchase a Kodak color target like this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/163309-REG/Kodak_1907914__Q_60R2_Target_5x7_Endura.html

... photograph the target in the lighting of your subject, then create a custom profile and workflow for VueScan:

http://www.hamrick.com/vuescan/html/vuesc18.htm

Basically you can also just photograph the color target (yes, I know it's not quite right for this task) and then use VueScan and Photoshop and its color sampling capabilities to get back to these colors. When you can create a print with basically the same colors as the target you can say that you have achieved a level of color control. It won't probably be perfect and you cannot trust your monitor, but you can trust the Photoshop color samplers and correct by the numbers.

[schmoo]

A million thanks again to both of you for all of your help getting me oriented with this. I tried both VueScan and SilverFast over the weekend and I am definitely going to go with VueScan. The UI was super-easy to follow and I can get pretty accurate WB with it after digging through their advanced settings. I can't even figure out how SilverFast works, because it's so unbelievably confusing in both language and UI.

I'm pretty happy so far. You guys should earn Epson referral credits. :thumb

[schmoo]

A lot can happen in a month: I got my Rolleiflex back and it's in perfect working condition, clean glass. (Now all I have to do is find a replacement strap that has not-oft-used scissor clips) I figured out the problem I was having with my default scanner software so I've been using whatever comes with the Epson.

Lookin' good. Film-to-digital has quite a steep learning curve and I hope it's not just a false sense of security thinking I've passed the hardest part. :lol3

http://www.schmootography.com/photos/i-FB3brDQ/1/M/i-FB3brDQ-M.jpg http://www.schmootography.com/photos/i-WGGMn5B/1/M/i-WGGMn5B-M.jpg http://www.schmootography.com/photos/i-94WKmd6/1/M/i-94WKmd6-M.jpg

[DavidTO]

Lookin' good.

Indeed.

Glad you got the kinks worked out!

[schmoo]

Did you ever develop that roll from the Zorki? :lol3

[DavidTO]

Did you ever develop that roll from the Zorki? :lol3

:hide

[jeffreaux2]

A lot can happen in a month: I got my Rolleiflex back and it's in perfect working condition, clean glass. (Now all I have to do is find a replacement strap that has not-oft-used scissor clips) I figured out the problem I was having with my default scanner software so I've been using whatever comes with the Epson.

Lookin' good. Film-to-digital has quite a steep learning curve and I hope it's not just a false sense of security thinking I've passed the hardest part. :lol3




Sheesh Steph,

These shots are breathtaking. So freakin airy!:thumb

The technical aspects of photography...as you are aware...are great to know. A sense of artistry....style...well....I think THAT trumps the science of photography any day. The unknowns will be known over time. Still though...right away , you got some good lookin shots.:thumb

Now....point me to some more rolly shots!:rofl

[schmoo]

Thanks, Jeff, that means a lot coming from you! Composing for the square is sometimes challenging, and so is keeping things level. Even with the grid lines in the viewfinder, the act of pressing the button can really skew things. :lol3

I can't wait to take this out and shoot lots more and play around with different films, too. Have you taken your Yashica out for a spin?

[BradfordBenn]

Amazing difference in the month. Very nice shots, they have really started to sparkle.

[rideswithchuck]

Chuck, Schmoo isn't shooting with the Perfekt. So far it's just you and me. I also don't believe that she's received her scanner yet, anyway.
After a few missteps I seem to be on my way. I purchased a Canoscan 5600F and Vuescan software and now I can digitize my Perfekt negatives. The local grocery store can develope my film overnight for $3.00. Of course I have to tell them not to print or cut the negatives. https://picasaweb.google.com/data/feed/base/user/rideswithchuck/albumid/5628847579292186033?alt=rss&kind=photo&authkey=Gv1sRgCKnqt8TMwfijsAE&hl=en_US
I think this is a link to one of my photos.

How do I insert a photograph in my reply? I copied my photo url from Picasa but when I log in here there is no option to paste. One bump after another.

[DavidTO]

Nice! The WB is a bit blue (IMO), but it's a nice shot.

Instructions for embedding here (http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1083138).

[rideswithchuck]

Nice! The WB is a bit blue (IMO), but it's a nice shot.

Instructions for embedding here (http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/1083138).
The important thing to me about panorama shots is that you can tell more than one story in a picture. The B17 in the background was destroyed by fire the day after I took this shot.
Color on the other hand I am zeroing in on. At this point I'm happy to have acquisition material to work with.


MOD EDIT (embedded image):

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ordMUVDV58c/Th2vOqv_TTI/AAAAAAAAAKE/KEDEDCsxlTo/s912/p40-b17%2525C2%2525A9derer.jpg

[schmoo]

Hey Chuck, I get text gibberish when I click that link but I'm eager to see what you're coming up with.

How do you store your negatives if they're not cut? :ear

[DavidTO]

The important thing to me about panorama shots is that you can tell more than one story in a picture. The B17 in the background was destroyed by fire the day after I took this shot.
Color on the other hand I am zeroing in on. At this point I'm happy to have acquisition material to work with.

Yes, color is tough, as my posts in this thread attest! :D

[rideswithchuck]

Hey Chuck, I get text gibberish when I click that link but I'm eager to see what you're coming up with.

How do you store your negatives if they're not cut? :ear
I cut them myself and put them is sleeves. I can't expect the over worked person at the grocery store to do a correct cut. I make sure I have an empty film canister to give them for the developed roll.

[schmoo]

Good idea!

By the way I don't know if anyone else reading this is interested, but I just noticed this in the Lomography shop:

http://usa.shop.lomography.com/accessories/accessory-best-sellers/lomography-digitaliza-120

Anyone heard about this? Or even better yet, have you used it?

[Mathieu05]

Hi just new to this thread. Jeff invited me here.

I shoot film using my Canon AE-1 and my Mamiya 645 AFD. i like film a lot beacause of the wider dynamic range it can contain but i do love my 5D2 & 50D as well. i usually sned my films thru our local lab in town and i just scan them thru my Epson V500.

some samples i have;

Canon AE-1 & Fuji Reala 100:

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5064/5884698487_400beef667_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mathieu_odchigue/5884698487/)
Fujicolor Reala 100 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mathieu_odchigue/5884698487/) by Chris Odchigue | Photography (http://www.flickr.com/people/mathieu_odchigue/), on Flickr


Mamiya 645AFD & Kodak 400TX:

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6021/5987839871_b7fdc7976b_b.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mathieu_odchigue/5987839871/)
My kids in Medium Format (http://www.flickr.com/photos/mathieu_odchigue/5987839871/) by Chris Odchigue | Photography (http://www.flickr.com/people/mathieu_odchigue/), on Flickr

[DavidTO]

Chris,

I'm so glad you posted these. Looking forward to seeing more! I've got some backlogged I haven't had time to get through...

[Mathieu05]

Thanks David! Hope to learn more thru this thread :)