Noob with concert shooting question

[gloo]

hey all! I'm new. this is my first post. yay

This isn't actually what I joined about, I originally joined because I'm considering getting a smugmug; still debating.

so anyways. I have some ole high school buds who have seen some of my photos and want me to shoot their first concert so they can get some good photos of them. I've mainly done landscape and snowboarding photography, so delving into the world of concert (band concert) work is a new thing for me.

my issue then is this: I'm a college dude. I don't have a lot of $. I've had a Rebel XS for over a year as my body. my main lens is the 17-88 USM, which is a pretty decent lens. (99% sure i'm going to upgrade to the 17-14L lens next month and then sometime next year the 50D, good plan, yeah?). My little XS does not have the greatest low light performance. Are there any tricks to maximize what my little guy can do so I can get the best pictures possible?

my software: I have CS4, color effex pro and (useless here i'm sure, but) photomatix. and my flickr if anyone wants to see what my stuff looks like: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gloosle/

Thanks for the help!

[reyvee61]

Welcome to Digrin

I tell ya what, my friend gets excellent results with her XS and the nifty fifty....
For the money, that could be your best investment and you would be giving your XS a great low light boost.
Don't be afraid to boost ISO either, I've seen great reslts from her kit at ISO1600

What I usually do for concert shoots is meter the brightest light(s) {usually on a performers face} and set my manual settings based on what the camera wants to do at a given f stop in Aperture mode.

The main thing you don't want to do is blow out faces but at the same time shooting A mode will take your shutter speeds down so low when pointed at dark areas of the stage.
That's why manual works better for me so the exposure stays constant.

I shoot RAW so shadows can easily be bumped in post.
Depending on how low the lighting is I might shoot at f/2.8 1/125 at ISO2500 or higher with the D700

[divamum]

- Agree with Rey - get your hands on a used copy of the 50 1.8 for about $85-100 and use it! It can sometimes be a piglet to focus in low light situations, but it will still give you a ton more light-gathering and likely better results than your existing lens. I regularly shoot at 1.8-4.0 in theatre situations - even at iso 2000 sometimes! - so those extra stops of light can be a big deal.

- expose for highlights when possible, but always expose to the right ( as bright as you can go WITHOUT blowing the highlights - learn to read your histogram)

- shoot raw. WAY more latitude to adjust in post. For concert/theater shooting this can be a big deal both for exposure and white balancing.

- It is sometimes better to up to a grainier ISO and get a BRIGHT exposure than it is to stay at a lower iso and underexpose - when you lift it in post, the noise will increase.

- I think the xs has the same sensor as the 50d, doesn't it? If so, you should be able to shoot at iso 1000-1600 - it will be a bit grainy, but if you have access to LR3 the noise can be fairly easily reduced (not sure if the Camera Raw in CS4 uses the same algorithims as LR3 or not - if not, get hold of the community edition of Noiseware, which is FREE and works beautifully, and better than the pre-LR3 noise reduction in Adobe products)

One last thing: can you get them to rent a lens for you? You could get a 135L f2 (fabulous lens for theatre/concert work), 70-200 2.8is, sigma 50-150, or one of the other lenses favoured in these situations. Worth considering if there's a particularly important gig you'll be shooting for them.

HTH!

[gloo]

Thanks guys!

For some reason I've always had a mental block on shooting above 400 ISO. I need to get over that I guess.

so light room has better raw processing than camera raw/ps? Hmm...

I have been considering getting my hands on the lower end 50mm prime lens. right now I can snag it on amazon new for a 100 + free tiffen filter. not bad. Definitely something to consider. it definitely gives me a HUGE step up in f stops. I also do have my macro lens...100 mm 2.8. not sure how useful that would be for concert shooting, its a pretty close up lens.

also, any tips in general for shooting a concert beyond camera performanc?

[Photometric]

I shot this gallery with a Nikon D90 and a nifty 50 1.8f

http://www.djdimages.com/Music/Christian-Beach-CD-Release/10386495_uF9rF/

Shot at ISO 1600.

[divamum]

LR3 has better raw processing than the previous versions of camera raw; again, I don't use CS4, so I don't know if it's on the same version - perhaps somebody else could chime in on that? LR3's noise reduction is phenomenal - a HUGE step up from previous versions.

As for ISO - yep, you will get more noise. But you can also expose brighter and better thus the noise will be less of a *problem*, since you won't have to boost the images in post. It sounds counterintuitive, but it does work that way! If the xs is like the xsi it's probably happier at 800, but if you really need it push it to 1600 to get a better in-camera exposure, then try it - you'd be surprised :thumb.

[reyvee61]

Non camera related tips.

Try to shoot as if your a part of the band (don't just stay stationary as if your a spectator), move around the front of the satge.
Get different angles, move around as much as possible and don't be afraid to use tilts. (they work great for this kind of thing)

[pmbpro]

Welcome to Dgrin, gloo! :)

Heh. I can relate. I loved shooting animals/wildlife, but "fell" into concert/band photography and had no money for fast digital lenses to shoot in dark venues with no flash <eek!>. I was used to shooting in sunlight! :rofl

I'm not familiar with Canon gear (I shoot with Olympus 4/3 system), so I'm not much help there, but since I couldn't afford any digital lenses at all 2 years ago, I had started out with a manual Olympus OM 50mm f1.8 lens (bought for $35 on eBay) with an adapter to use with my digital camera --- no auto focus or anything since it wasn't a digital lens. It definitely taught me to shoot using manual focus and to be patient. :D

I finally got a Oly prime 50mm f2.0 (it's a macro and good for concert shooting too). However, regarding your concern for f2.8, it turns out that most of my concert photos on my site were shot with with my 14-54 f2.8-3.5 (good for wide stage shots), or my 50-200mm f2.8-3.5 telephoto for close-ups! I alternate between these 2 lenses at each show (with 2 cameras now--got a used back-up), more for distance flexibility than anything else since I was always in one spot at the bigger high-calibre concerts as a spectator/ticketholder like everyone else. I wasn't as concerned about using my 50mm prime anymore (I was sometimes too away far to get close-ups with it).
At local clubs with small bands, it's easier to move around though, which is great! Take advantage of those angles; most people don't mind when they see what you're doing and would let you move around to get shots. I move around and try not to block people too long. :)

I agree with what reyvee61 said about the metering, exposure, etc. too. I've also shot my images at ISO 800, and, as mentioned, fixed any noise issues in post-processing (I use Lightroom). Better to have noise and subject that aren't blurry. :thumb

You can check out my galleries at http://www.pmbimages.com/People/Concerts-and-Performances

Good luck and most importantly, have fun! :thumb</eek!>

[Art Scott]

Thanks guys!


so light room has better raw processing than camera raw/ps? Hmm...


also, any tips in general for shooting a concert beyond camera performanc?

Since you are a student ...Academic superstore had a special on LR3 for $89 just about a week ago........ i now do 99.9% of all of my processsing with LR.....it can also be your image management software...and PS is not capable of being a D.A.M. software also...down load the trial and take it for a spin.......might still be running....I have bought a lot from them when I worked for a local U.


for me concert shooting is not so much about getting all the light I can in the camera it is about mood and mood and feeling.........I do not like to shoot above 800 iso but will if I have too but I also do not shoot wide open with my f2.8 lenses......normally I am around f4-8....where ever I can get the look I am after.........at the beginning of a show I shoot in all of my metering modes to see what does the best.....normally I meter of the face with spot metering......but that is me and my shooting......it is different for others.....I never use flash....well almost never.....I might fire off a few real low power flashes but only a couple for reference, unless something spectacular happens and well it hasn't yet.

[pmbpro]

Non camera related tips.

Try to shoot as if your a part of the band (don't just stay stationary as if your a spectator), move around the front of the satge.
Get different angles, move around as much as possible and don't be afraid to use tilts. (they work great for this kind of thing)


Haha. I agree. I'd touched on the "moving around" a bit in my post before I saw this. :D

At the bigger shows it's a bit trickier when I'm lucky to keep my spot from a spectator point of view at standing-only venues, indoors or outdoors (especially at free concerts). You should have seen how packed it was when I was shooting a Chaka Khan concert, and Macy Gray concert right after! I staked out my spot all day for those and didn't budge!:rofl

[pmbpro]

Since you are a student ...Academic superstore had a special on LR3 for $89 just about a week ago........ i now do 99.9% of all of my processsing with LR.....it can also be your image management software...and PS is not capable of being a D.A.M. software also...down load the trial and take it for a spin.......might still be running....I have bought a lot from them when I worked for a local U.

Hi Art! Good point about the educational price for LR! With gloo being a student, it's the best time to snag it! :thumb

for me concert shooting is not so much about getting all the light I can in the camera it is about mood and mood and feeling.........I do not like to shoot above 800 iso but will if I have too but I also do not shoot wide open with my f2.8 lenses......normally I am around f4-8....where ever I can get the look I am after.........at the beginning of a show I shoot in all of my metering modes to see what does the best.....normally I meter of the face with spot metering......but that is me and my shooting......it is different for others.....I never use flash....well almost never.....I might fire off a few real low power flashes but only a couple for reference, unless something spectacular happens and well it hasn't yet.

I agree with you about capturing the feeling, mood, emotion, etc. At first I didn't realize I was actually doing it until I was told by many people viewing my images, including the performers themselves. It's an amazing thing to discover as I look back at each photo now, which ones affected me the most. It also shows the vulnerability of a performer up there in front of so many people. I admire anyone who performs on stage.

I used to have a bit of a time with darker skinned performers regarding metering, especially when they're wearing dark clothes too, but I've gotten used to it and adjusted okay after so much practice. I don't use Flash either for shows. I took it as a challenge to learn more and not annoy performers/fans too much :D). At least now when I hear or read the "No Flash" rules at a venue, I'm confident enough that I can do just that now. It's also less gear and batteries to carry or worry about.

[reyvee61]

Since you are a student ...Academic superstore had a special on LR3 for $89 just about a week ago........ i now do 99.9% of all of my processsing with LR.....it can also be your image management software...and PS is not capable of being a D.A.M. software also...down load the trial and take it for a spin.......might still be running....I have bought a lot from them when I worked for a local U.


for me concert shooting is not so much about getting all the light I can in the camera it is about mood and mood and feeling.........I do not like to shoot above 800 iso but will if I have too but I also do not shoot wide open with my f2.8 lenses......normally I am around f4-8....where ever I can get the look I am after.........at the beginning of a show I shoot in all of my metering modes to see what does the best.....normally I meter of the face with spot metering......but that is me and my shooting......it is different for others.....I never use flash....well almost never.....I might fire off a few real low power flashes but only a couple for reference, unless something spectacular happens and well it hasn't yet.

I meter of the face with spot metering

This always works for me too.....

[reyvee61]

I shot this gallery with a Nikon D90 and a nifty 50 1.8f

http://www.djdimages.com/Music/Christian-Beach-CD-Release/10386495_uF9rF/

Shot at ISO 1600.

Nice work!
Here is my most recent concert album to share as well:

http://www.hipshotphoto.com/Concerts/Top-Off/14121011_w7u7p#1041099482_e2zGS

[ront]

I have used my 100mm f/2.8 lens for a couple of concerts. You do have to move around a bit more since you are the zoom, but it works and is pretty sharp. There are a lot of pics in this link using the 100mm f2.8 lens. Just select the photo info and any thing at 100mm was this lens.
http://ront.smugmug.com/Concerts/Revelation-Tour-2009-Toyota/Third-Day/8136660_kUk2X#P-1-12

Also, I checked out your Flickr site gloo and you have some very nice pics!!

Ron

[reyvee61]

I have used my 100mm f/2.8 lens for a couple of concerts. You do have to move around a bit more since you are the zoom, but it works and is pretty sharp. There are a lot of pics in this link using the 100mm f2.8 lens. Just select the photo info and any thing at 100mm was this lens.
http://ront.smugmug.com/Concerts/Revelation-Tour-2009-Toyota/Third-Day/8136660_kUk2X#P-1-12

Also, I checked out your Flickr site gloo and you have some very nice pics!!

Ron


Great shots Ron!

[ront]

Thanks Rey! I was glued to a chair:cry and could not move around so did the best I could from there!

Ron

[gloo]

Thanks for the advice all. I decided to go ahead and snag the 50mm lens. Had my eye on it for a while anyways haha.

So, i downloaded light room trial to give it a shot and I feel as lost as the first day I was introduced to photoshop and bridge :S haha. I'm so comfortable with ps. tips and tricks? and any suggestions on (*cough* free) online guides or whatnot?

oh, and thanks for the compliments on my flickr!

[reyvee61]

Definitely check out Adobe TV...there's a lot of cool free video tutorials....
Congrats on the new glass, you will love it!

[divamum]

Just start playing with LR - remember that NOTHING is happening to the photo itself, so you can tinker to your heart's content and go back to square one. The built-in presets aren't bad for starter stuff, and you can get quite a lot of decent free ones (I like the Get Totally Rad trial presets, and also ones from preset heaven, creative catalyst and WoW.)

The 50 1.8 sounds like a buzzing bee when it focuses, but that's normal. It's still GREAT glass and for the money it seriously can't be beat. Loved mine!

[Hackbone]

Many great tips above. Now this will sound stupid but bear with me. Camera shake in low light is a bear. Get some type of shock cord (elastic cord). Loop it around your foot and the other end attached to the camera or your hand. As you stretch the cord by bring the camera up to your face you lock your hands into your body to nullify the effect of the cord pulling down. It is amazing how low of a shutter speed you can use while getting a sharp photo. You will have to explain to alot of people what the heck you are doing but it works.

[reyvee61]

Charles that's not a bad idea at all.....
I've seen people do that with a string, washer and bolt.....

[StueveShots]

Many great tips above. Now this will sound stupid but bear with me. Camera shake in low light is a bear. Get some type of shock cord (elastic cord). Loop it around your foot and the other end attached to the camera or your hand. As you stretch the cord by bring the camera up to your face you lock your hands into your body to nullify the effect of the cord pulling down. It is amazing how low of a shutter speed you can use while getting a sharp photo. You will have to explain to alot of people what the heck you are doing but it works.

Charles, I am absolutely fascinated with this idea, but am not sure I'm picturing it correctly. Can you try describing "lock your hands into your body" differently? I picturing myself holding the camera with my hands, so I'm not sure how to "lock" them in to counteract the tension. (Then again, I am on cold medication and maybe my brain is just too fuzzy! :rolleyes)

[Hackbone]

Charles, I am absolutely fascinated with this idea, but am not sure I'm picturing it correctly. Can you try describing "lock your hands into your body" differently? I picturing myself holding the camera with my hands, so I'm not sure how to "lock" them in to counteract the tension. (Then again, I am on cold medication and maybe my brain is just too fuzzy! :rolleyes)

Just bring the camera up to your face and tuck your elbows into your body to brace your camera. Sort of like a boxer who puts his guard up just in tight to your body.

[StueveShots]

Just bring the camera up to your face and tuck your elbows into your body to brace your camera. Sort of like a boxer who puts his guard up just in tight to your body.

That makes sense! Thanks! I have to give it a try.

[ivar]

Since this can benefit just about any type of shooter, and not just 'people' shooters, I've moved this to the technique forum :thumb