"Affordable" LCDs for Image Editing

[NikonsandVstroms]

My Dell 24" which I'm not sure of the model off hand but is one of the lower ones is not cutting it for image editing and I know this will not be cheap but I'm wondering what are the current best bang for your buck monitors in the 24 and 27 inch ranges. Right now I have a 24 1920 x 1080 and 22 1680 x 1050, my video card is a NVIDIA Quadro FX580 (512MB) so it should be able to push any combination of monitors I hook up.

Also the 1920x1080 is a little tight for my web design work so the more resolution the better.

[Newsy]

My Dell 24" which I'm not sure of the model off hand but is one of the lower ones is not cutting it for image editing and I know this will not be cheap but I'm wondering what are the current best bang for your buck monitors in the 24 and 27 inch ranges. Right now I have a 24 1920 x 1080 and 22 1680 x 1050, my video card is a NVIDIA Quadro FX580 (512MB) so it should be able to push any combination of monitors I hook up.

Also the 1920x1080 is a little tight for my web design work so the more resolution the better.

What do you mean by "affordable"?? Do you have a $$$ budget?

For some people affordable is $200, for others $3000. Pointing you to Eizo and Lacie monitors would be a waste of time if $200 is the end of the spectrum you are at.

Your 22 inch? What make & model is that? A Dell 2209WA perhaps?

Is the standard sRGB color space adequate for you or do you edit images in the AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB color spaces?

Web work should always be in sRGB. To support AdobeRGB and ProPhotoRGB you will need a wide gamut monitor and in some respects that can be a real can of worms.


Looking at what you have told us so far, I'm pretty sure your current 24" monitor uses a 6bit "TN" TFT LCD panel. Asides from potential issues with 6bit processing of the image by the monitor's electronics, the TN panel itself has issues with viewing angles. You can see color/gamma shifts at viewing angles other than straight on and if you sit close to your monitor is becomes more obvious.

In terms of image quality for photo editing, these are the TFT LCD panel types from best to worst:

IPS (newer variants are S-IPS, AS-IPS, H-IPS, e-IPS, etc)
PVA (newer variants are S-PVA, c-PVA)
MVA (newer variants are A-MVA, P-MVA, S-MVA, etc)
TN

If you would like some background on these panels, read this article:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm


IMHO, current IPS and PVA monitors can be very close in image quality with units from the top tier manufacturers; IPS do show more detail in dark areas of an image but a number of users are finding that middle to low end IPS panels show unwanted "tinting" noticeable on white or gray backgrounds. Others initially object to the anti-reflection treatment on the matte screens of some IPS monitors (gives a "dirty" appearance) but most users get used to this.

Using some of this criteria, my initial thoughts are to point you to monitors that cost between $380 and $999. So what is your $$$ budget.

.

[colourbox]

For photography it is usually recommended to pick up the best IPS-panel monitor you can afford. They start at $280. This list is very useful as a shopping guide.
http://www.pchardwarehelp.com/guides/s-ips-lcd-list.php

[NikonsandVstroms]

What do you mean by "affordable"?? Do you have a $$$ budget?

For some people affordable is $200, for others $3000. Pointing you to Eizo and Lacie monitors would be a waste of time if $200 is the end of the spectrum you are at.

Your 22 inch? What make & model is that? A Dell 2209WA perhaps?

Is the standard sRGB color space adequate for you or do you edit images in the AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB color spaces?

Web work should always be in sRGB. To support AdobeRGB and ProPhotoRGB you will need a wide gamut monitor and in some respects that can be a real can of worms.


Looking at what you have told us so far, I'm pretty sure your current 24" monitor uses a 6bit "TN" TFT LCD panel. Asides from potential issues with 6bit processing of the image by the monitor's electronics, the TN panel itself has issues with viewing angles. You can see color/gamma shifts at viewing angles other than straight on and if you sit close to your monitor is becomes more obvious.

In terms of image quality for photo editing, these are the TFT LCD panel types from best to worst:

IPS (newer variants are S-IPS, AS-IPS, H-IPS, e-IPS, etc)
PVA (newer variants are S-PVA, c-PVA)
MVA (newer variants are A-MVA, P-MVA, S-MVA, etc)
TN

If you would like some background on these panels, read this article:
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/articles/panel_technologies.htm


IMHO, current IPS and PVA monitors can be very close in image quality with units from the top tier manufacturers; IPS do show more detail in dark areas of an image but a number of users are finding that middle to low end IPS panels show unwanted "tinting" noticeable on white or gray backgrounds. Others initially object to the anti-reflection treatment on the matte screens of some IPS monitors (gives a "dirty" appearance) but most users get used to this.

Using some of this criteria, my initial thoughts are to point you to monitors that cost between $380 and $999. So what is your $$$ budget.

.

By affordable basically I mean the cheapest that is useful. There is no set price range but I want to know what to expect.

[Newsy]

By affordable basically I mean the cheapest that is useful. There is no set price range but I want to know what to expect.


Here's a list of budget IPS monitors. They all use 8bit IPS panels and they all cover close to 100% of the standard sRGB color space. You can find reviews on them in these web sites:


http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/reviews.php


Dell 2209WA
... 22" 1680x1050
... can be found for about $220 USD

Dell U2211H
... 21.5" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as HP ZR22w
... recently on sale for $219

Dell U2311H
... 23" 1920x1080
... recently on sale for $239
... same IPS panel as NEC EA231Wmi & Viewsonic VP2365WB

HP ZR22w
... 21.5" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2211H

NEC EA231WMi
... 23" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2311H & Viewsonic VP2365WB
... usually around $300; check price on amazon or buy.com

Viewsonic VP2365WB
... 23" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2311H & NEC EA231Wmi
... usually around $300; check price on amazon or buy.com

HP ZR24w
... 24" 1920x1200
... IPS panel
... can be found for under $400


If you're interested in wide gamut monitors, then it is a different list and prices start at about $440 and go up over $1200.

.

[NikonsandVstroms]

Thanks for the link, it might turn out to be dangerous though after reading some reviews for the 27/30" monitors :lol3

Here's a list of budget IPS monitors. They all use 8bit IPS panels and they all cover close to 100% of the standard sRGB color space. You can find reviews on them in these web sites:


http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/reviews.php


Dell 2209WA
... 22" 1680x1050
... can be found for about $220 USD

Dell U2211H
... 21.5" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as HP ZR22w
... recently on sale for $219

Dell U2311H
... 23" 1920x1080
... recently on sale for $239
... same IPS panel as NEC EA231Wmi & Viewsonic VP2365WB

HP ZR22w
... 21.5" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2211H

NEC EA231WMi
... 23" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2311H & Viewsonic VP2365WB
... usually around $300; check price on amazon or buy.com

Viewsonic VP2365WB
... 23" 1920x1080
... same IPS panel as Dell U2311H & NEC EA231Wmi
... usually around $300; check price on amazon or buy.com

HP ZR24w
... 24" 1920x1200
... IPS panel
... can be found for under $400


If you're interested in wide gamut monitors, then it is a different list and prices start at about $440 and go up over $1200.

.

[Newsy]

Thanks for the link, it might turn out to be dangerous though after reading some reviews for the 27/30" monitors :lol3

LOL!

If I felt I'd actually get substantially more out of it, that NEC PA271w would be sitting on my desktop asap. Forget the Dell and Apple versions of this panel.

I'm leery of several of the new 30" monitors as they have eliminated the monitor side hardware controls for RGB. In the case of the HP ZR30w it has no OSD at all. Ditto the Hazro HZ30Wi. The Dell does look interesting however - it has an OSD.

.

[bigsnowdog]

Newsy [....if you are still following this thread] how do you compare the HPZR24W with the LP2475W?

I have spent several hours this morning reading about monitors. I am not a $1,200 monitor person, so I find myself looking at Dell and HP. The vague feeling I have after reading a lot is that I lean toward the HP models.

[NikonsandVstroms]

Newsy [....if you are still following this thread] how do you compare the HPZR24W with the LP2475W?

I have spent several hours this morning reading about monitors. I am not a $1,200 monitor person, so I find myself looking at Dell and HP. The vague feeling I have after reading a lot is that I lean toward the HP models.


Just a general tip, I've had much better luck with HP's consumer support than Dell's in case there ever is an issue.

[Newsy]

Newsy [....if you are still following this thread] how do you compare the HPZR24W with the LP2475W?

I have spent several hours this morning reading about monitors. I am not a $1,200 monitor person, so I find myself looking at Dell and HP. The vague feeling I have after reading a lot is that I lean toward the HP models.

They're very different monitors.

The ZR24w is much easier to live with for most people simply because it does not require as much color management.

The fundamental difference is in the back light - the ZR24w uses a standard CCFL back light and provides a standard sRGB color space to work in. The LP2475w uses a W-CCFL back light and provides a "wide gamut" (sRGB + AdobeRGB) color space to work in.

If you shoot with your DSLR JPEG color space set to AdobeRGB or shoot RAW and extract to AdobeRGB later, or you use Lightroom (ProPhotoRGB working space; not changeable), or if you edit with CS in the AdobeRGB space so as to print on your own multi-ink wide gamut printer.... it would be better to look to the LP2475w.

If however, you shoot and work in sRGB like most people and your intent is to either upload your images to web sites like Smugmug (which only accept sRGB embedded/tagged images) or you send out your images for printing to an off site company (most of which won't accept AdobeRGB or ProPhotoRGB embedded/tagged images), then the ZR24w is ideal.

Both monitors have had reports of issues with tinting. Typically this manifests as green on the left and red on the right and it shows more easily with an all white or light gray background. This seems to be a common characteristic of the last two generations of IPS panels from LG Display, the almost sole source supplier of IPS panels worldwide.

Due the wide gamut of the LP2475w, you have to ensure you are fully conversant in the practice of assigning ICC profiles and using "color managed" software to view images. If not, you may be frustrated by the vividly saturated colors, particularly greens and reds.

.

[bigsnowdog]

Historically, I purchase new equipment every 7-8 years. When I buy, I try to buy as much technology as I can afford, in hope I can mesh with new methods and applications as they emerge or I can afford to purchase.

The clumsy question I pose is this: If I use a color managed browser, and set Photoshop to work in sRGB, will that then prevent me from having problems, and will it then allow me to purchase the wide gamut monitor and perhaps take advantage of its virtues at a later date when a need for its capability emerges?

[bigsnowdog]

Throwing another question into the mix. Looking at the cost of a monitor and a color calibration device, is there any merit in one of the NEC's that have built in calibration?

I must say, I have looked at some of the manufacturer's sites, and discover such a dizzying array of models it is hard to decipher it all.

[Newsy]

The clumsy question I pose is this: If I use a color managed browser, and set Photoshop to work in sRGB, will that then prevent me from having problems,

No... humans are error prone.

Maybe this site will help...
http://www.gballard.net/psd.html

and...
http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.html#

done this test yet?
http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter
- I would worry if your system supported neither v2 or v4. If it doesn't support v2 you're in trouble! If it doesn't support v4, not so bad, most browsers don't. Most hardware calibrators can be set to produce and ICC v2 profile. Try this page with different browsers. Your results from FireFox v3.6.xx should be much different from IE8 or Chrome. See the last G Ballard link for a list of color managed browsers.


and will it then allow me to purchase the wide gamut monitor and perhaps take advantage of its virtues at a later date when a need for its capability emerges?If you purchase a top quality monitor like the NEC PA241w or PA271w you will get a great wide gamut monitor and also a monitor that has a very good sRGB emulation mode.

So you can use it in a "calibrated" wide gamut mode where using its' SpectraViewII system you just know your wide gamut colors are bang on or you can use it in a "pre-calibrated", but unable to re-calibrate, sRGB mode. I would expect this sRGB mode to look pretty good for the first couple of years of the monitor's life but as it ages and the electronics drift it will slowly move away from spec.

The only way to keep that preset mode "bang on" is my changing the settings on your video card. Of course this will mean you will have to recalibrate the standard wide gamut mode if you make any changes at the video card side. The good news is that the NEC's keep that data in the internal LUT of the monitor.

.

[bigsnowdog]

No... humans are error prone.

Maybe this site will help...
http://www.gballard.net/psd.html

and...
http://www.gballard.net/psd/go_live_page_profile/embeddedJPEGprofiles.html#

done this test yet?
http://www.color.org/version4html.xalter
- I would worry if your system supported neither v2 or v4. If it doesn't support v2 you're in trouble! If it doesn't support v4, not so bad, most browsers don't. Most hardware calibrators can be set to produce and ICC v2 profile. Try this page with different browsers. Your results from FireFox v3.6.xx should be much different from IE8 or Chrome. See the last G Ballard link for a list of color managed browsers.


If you purchase a top quality monitor like the NEC PA241w or PA271w you will get a great wide gamut monitor and also a monitor that has a very good sRGB emulation mode.

So you can use it in a "calibrated" wide gamut mode where using its' SpectraViewII system you just know your wide gamut colors are bang on or you can use it in a "pre-calibrated", but unable to re-calibrate, sRGB mode. I would expect this sRGB mode to look pretty good for the first couple of years of the monitor's life but as it ages and the electronics drift it will slowly move away from spec.

The only way to keep that preset mode "bang on" is my changing the settings on your video card. Of course this will mean you will have to recalibrate the standard wide gamut mode if you make any changes at the video card side. The good news is that the NEC's keep that data in the internal LUT of the monitor.

.



It sounds like I had better stick with the ZR24w.

I could relate to the NEC idea you offered at the end, but the whole, drifting out of proper function is more than I want to deal with, given the likely high price of the NEC monitors.

Thank you. I don't mean to wear you out with all this.

You work with video cards? ....as in repairing or adjusting them? Interesting. I did not know it was even possible.

[Newsy]

You work with video cards? ....as in repairing or adjusting them? Interesting. I did not know it was even possible.

LOL!

meant "by changing" where I said "my changing"

.

[Newsy]

I could relate to the NEC idea you offered at the end, but the whole, drifting out of proper function is more than I want to deal with, given the likely high price of the NEC monitors.

ALL monitors drift off spec over time. CRT's more quickly than LCD's.

The idea behind a hardware calibrator like a Spyder or i1D2 is that you use it to correct the factory default settings and then come back periodically to refresh it. CRT's may have required a calibration once every two weeks. LCD's may be OK for 2 months. It is not a one time deal.

.

[bigsnowdog]

Something new....

http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1036306806&postcount=2384

It talks about an uncorrectable scaling issue with this monitor. I wonder if other monitors have this problem also?

Also see http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1526984

[bigsnowdog]

The bad news. You can't order the zr24w now because no one has them.

HP told me on the phone they are over 10,000 units on back order and they won't be available for months.

The really humorous part is the one HP guy said to buy the LP2475W because they have them in stock.

Newsy, what would you recommend as a standard gamut monitor now, as an alternative to the hp that is backordered?

[colourbox]

Throwing another question into the mix. Looking at the cost of a monitor and a color calibration device, is there any merit in one of the NEC's that have built in calibration?

From what I have read, the ones with the integrated calibrators are worth getting, I've seen recommendations from color experts who say that it's far better to get one of those rather than trying to match up the same monitor model with your own calibrator.

The way they work is that it's an integrated system. The calibrator, matched to the monitor, works with the included software and also interfaces directly with the monitor itself. This is supposed to allow direct communication with and configuration of the monitor and is supposed to increase the accuracy of the calibration compared to the more common "just profile it in software" method.

Please note that this is not from personal experience. I don't own one yet, I'm still shopping around just like you...

[Newsy]

Newsy, what would you recommend as a standard gamut monitor now, as an alternative to the hp that is backordered?

Go back to that list from earlier in this thread.

Consider the 23" 1920x1080 models. Of those the Viewsonic is my least favoured.

Read the reviews on TFTCentral and Flatpanelshd.

.

[Newsy]

From what I have read, the ones with the integrated calibrators are worth getting, I've seen recommendations from color experts who say that it's far better to get one of those rather than trying to match up the same monitor model with your own calibrator.

The way they work is that it's an integrated system. The calibrator, matched to the monitor, works with the included software and also interfaces directly with the monitor itself. This is supposed to allow direct communication with and configuration of the monitor and is supposed to increase the accuracy of the calibration compared to the more common "just profile it in software" method.

Please note that this is not from personal experience. I don't own one yet, I'm still shopping around just like you...

The key with the NEC, Eizo, Lacie, and HP Dreamcolor accessory calibrators is that the software supplied with them is "tuned" for those monitors. This provides for a more accurate calibration as compared to using a generic i1D2 or Spyder3 with the monitor.

The NEC's have an internal LUT where the calibration data is held so you don't have to rely on the video card having a LUT to hold the data. There are some advantages to this in multi-monitor setups.

The NEC's LUT is 14bit (with 12 bit processing I think) so in theory you should see a higher quality transition between tones of colours. i.e. less potential for banding or posterization.

.

[bigsnowdog]

There is a really good article on color gamut here (http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/monitors/display/lcd-parameters.html).

[arodney]

As Nwesy says, you really want to focus on a display with a high bit panel, one with software and hardware integrated to control the calibration process. Best bang for the buck is NEC (P221W is their entry level device). IF you have a good colorimeter, SpectraView will likely support it and you can just get the display and software. If not, get the bundle with the tunnel instrument.

[bigsnowdog]

I ordered the NEC MultiSync 2490WU2-BK-SV 24" Widescreen LCD Display.

[arodney]

I ordered the NEC MultiSync 2490WU2-BK-SV 24" Widescreen LCD Display.

That’s an excellent non wide gamut display.

[bigsnowdog]

That’s an excellent non wide gamut display.

Thank you! I agonized over models for days, considering HP, Dell, and NEC.

Whew, it's over. :-)

[TheCheesehead]

Hi, I've been reading all the discussion on monitors. I strictly use my laptop for all LR3 and PS work, and do get comments from others that my colors seem off at times. I have a 3 year old HP Pavillion 1.9 mhz with 4G Ram. Would I get better color from an HDTV monitor using a VGA cable?

Thanks!

[Newsy]

Hi, I've been reading all the discussion on monitors. I strictly use my laptop for all LR3 and PS work, and do get comments from others that my colors seem off at times. I have a 3 year old HP Pavillion 1.9 mhz with 4G Ram. Would I get better color from an HDTV monitor using a VGA cable?


If by HDTV you mean a television with a VGA port, most likely... NOT!

From a calibrated dedicated computer monitor... most likely a yes.

Laptops are really problematic.

First off, the manufacturers often provide a "screen" utility that allows you, via software, to select your screen appearance for gaming, videos, web browsing, etc. These settings are so far off the sRGB standard they are ludicrous. You need to blow away that utility as it will interfere with a calibrated set-up.

HDTV's are not much different. Many do not offer a viewing mode that is conducive to calibrating to a standard.

.

[colourbox]

You would have to neutralize the TV first, because most TVs are set for bright, unrealistic color and too much contrast.

Then you would have to calibrate it. And even then, unless it is an expensive TV, its specs probably aren't much different than a laptop. It might be better to properly calibrate the laptop monitor as best as you can...

VGA is fine but I run my laptop's DVI straight into the HDMI on my TV because that creates an all digital connection. I understand that older, less expensive Windows laptops have no digital video out and are forced to use VGA, though. But I don't dare do any photo editing on my midrange TV, it's only for display.

[TheCheesehead]

Thanks for the replys. I hooked up to my 20" Westinhouse 720p TV via VGA, and yeah, it pretty much sucked. The only video out my laptop has is s-video and vga.

[TheCheesehead]

I need a new laptop. Which has the best monitors, Mac or PC? Thanks!

[Newsy]

I need a new laptop. Which has the best monitors, Mac or PC? Thanks!

99% of currently shipping consumer or business class laptops use a 6bit TN panel and that includes the current MacBook Pro's.

The exceptions are the HP 8740w and 8540w. The 8740w has a 1920x1200 IPS panel that HP claims to be 10bit and it is backlit by a wide gamut RGB-LED. Not sure on the 8540w details.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/hp-business-class-notebooks/470406-official-hp-elitebook-8740w-owners-lounge-220.html#post6467969

The 8740w will set you back about $4000+ USD.

Hence many laptop users buy $1200 laptops and $300 external monitors.

.

[TheCheesehead]

thanks!

[colourbox]

I need a new laptop. Which has the best monitors, Mac or PC? Thanks!

Neither has the best, there are Mac and PC laptops with good displays, though none really as good as a desktop. If you want to know how Mac laptop monitors are seen by pros, this article is a good read:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10041-10146

[Jzazzi]

In the market for a new monitor myself. Many thanks for the great discussion, I love this place : )

-J

[Overfocused]

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Dell U2410 - the HP ZR24W's counterpart with a few differences that make it better in pretty much every way, but specifically for photo editing.

Also, there are debates littering the internet about these two. Google 'u2410 vs zr24w' and you'll have all the hours of research you'll need at your fingertips. I spent about 8 hours from scratch to conclusion, and I am VERY happy with the u2410. I'm obsessive about technical detail and having the best equipment for the price range I shop at, and this the best at the 1920x1200 resolution since this res is being phased out of the market into 1080p crap.

However, let me make it easier... from my own personal research here's what I've found:


The U2410:
1. Plays games and movies much better regardless of what some of the forums say. The U2410 has a game mode which halves its input lag and becomes quicker than the zr24w if you end up getting dizzy in normal mode (Im a hardcore gamer and it refreshes fast enough without gaming mode even on)
2. Has %96 sRGB coverage vs the ZR24w with %76 coverage (if you're a photo editor it makes a huge difference... accurate 16 bit images are nice)
3. Has poor color calibration without a calibration device. If you have a color calibrator, this monitor is far better than the ZR24W since that is the main issue with this monitor that it needs to have an initial calibration to be accurate. I use a $60 HueyPro with the AdobeRGB display mode and its beautiful. I can see every detail in shadows and every inconsistency that I could not see on a normal TN monitor for hardcore spot removal (Samsung T220 was my old model and it was very bright too)


Warnings about the U2410:

Old revisions such as A00 and A01 have notorious tinting and shadow dithering issues, however, Dell will do a 1-day next day instant swap right at your door for the tinted monitor (if you get one) and they cover return shipping. I'd look on Ebay for Rev A02 or later since most sellers will let you know and/or test the monitor for tinting for you. I got a rev. A02 and its a real treat with no dithering or tinting. If you get a revision A02 or higher (a03, a04) and without a bad tint, its an amazing monitor and all-out better. I bought one refurbished off of ebay (refurbed comes with same warranty as new, 2 whoppin years)


Ebay has them for $300 (http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=u2410&_sacat=See-All-Categories) and Www.mrrebates.com will give %3 cashback for $18 back through ebay (sign up for it first though and follow instructions)

Oh always ask if the warranty is good, sometimes they're not but almost all of the refurbs are.

[Newsy]

I'm well aware of the U2410 and generally don't recommend it for all the issues you mention on tinting but do advise people that if they can get it for in the low $400's (it goes on sale from time to time) and if they are willing to take the risk, go for it.

There are a couple of points below which need correcting.

I'm surprised no one's mentioned the Dell U2410 - the HP ZR24W's counterpart with a few differences that make it better in pretty much every way, but specifically for photo editing.

Also, there are debates littering the internet about these two. Google 'u2410 vs zr24w' and you'll have all the hours of research you'll need at your fingertips. I spent about 8 hours from scratch to conclusion, and I am VERY happy with the u2410. I'm obsessive about technical detail and having the best equipment for the price range I shop at, and this the best at the 1920x1200 resolution since this res is being phased out of the market into 1080p crap.

However, let me make it easier... from my own personal research here's what I've found:


The U2410:
1. Plays games and movies much better regardless of what some of the forums say. The U2410 has a game mode which halves its input lag and becomes quicker than the zr24w if you end up getting dizzy in normal mode (Im a hardcore gamer and it refreshes fast enough without gaming mode even on)
2. Has %96 sRGB coverage vs the ZR24w with %76 coverage (if you're a photo editor it makes a huge difference... accurate 16 bit images are nice)


Perhaps you meant to state 96% of AdobeRGB ?? Various reviews and means of measuring the gamut lead to varying figures for coverage, all fairly close to each other.

The U2410 is a wide gamut monitor covering close to 100% of the sRGB color space and close to 100% of the AdobeRGB space; or approximately 102% of NTSC.

The ZR24 is a standard gamut monitor covering close to 100% (97%) of the sRGB space; or approximately 72% of NTSC. I've read somewhere that it only covers about 76% of AdobeRGB so it is definitely not a wide gamut monitor.



3. Has poor color calibration without a calibration device. If you have a color calibrator, this monitor is far better than the ZR24W since that is the main issue with this monitor that it needs to have an initial calibration to be accurate. I use a $60 HueyPro with the AdobeRGB display mode and its beautiful. I can see every detail in shadows and every inconsistency that I could not see on a normal TN monitor for hardcore spot removal (Samsung T220 was my old model and it was very bright too)


Warnings about the U2410:

Old revisions such as A00 and A01 have notorious tinting and shadow dithering issues, however, Dell will do a 1-day next day instant swap right at your door for the tinted monitor (if you get one) and they cover return shipping.

Can you confirm the instant swap details with a link to this info? This is key info as to date the only policy I'm aware of for this monitors and their tinting issues is the following which highlights that Dell considers the tinting a normal characteristic of the IPS panel in this monitor and will not issue RMA's for exchanges for this issue.

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/t/19302919.aspx

If Dell has reversed their policy I'd like to know as I will add this as a caveat in recommending this monitor in the future.



I'd look on Ebay for Rev A02 or later since most sellers will let you know and/or test the monitor for tinting for you. I got a rev. A02 and its a real treat with no dithering or tinting. If you get a revision A02 or higher (a03, a04) and without a bad tint, its an amazing monitor and all-out better. I bought one refurbished off of ebay (refurbed comes with same warranty as new, 2 whoppin years)


Ebay has them for $300 (http://shop.ebay.com/?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=u2410&_sacat=See-All-Categories) and Www.mrrebates.com (http://Www.mrrebates.com) will give %3 cashback for $18 back through ebay (sign up for it first though and follow instructions)

Oh always ask if the warranty is good, sometimes they're not but almost all of the refurbs are.

[Professional]

OK, what is the best monitor i can get for my PC for games? I have 2 monitors for photography and happy with them, using both on Mac, but i would like to use my PC sometimes and mostly i will use it for Office and PC games, so which monitor do you recommend in 24-27"? I don't care much about the price, but don't recommend me Eizo, i have one for Photography, and it is really fine but i will keep it for Mac not PC.

[Newsy]

OK, what is the best monitor i can get for my PC for games? I have 2 monitors for photography and happy with them, using both on Mac, but i would like to use my PC sometimes and mostly i will use it for Office and PC games, so which monitor do you recommend in 24-27"? I don't care much about the price, but don't recommend me Eizo, i have one for Photography, and it is really fine but i will keep it for Mac not PC.

The best LCD gaming monitor would have a "TN" TFT panel. These are not ideal for image work.

For gaming, especially fast action first person shooters, it is all about the pixel response time (often stated as typical 2ms gtg, gray to gray) and the input lag which is the time delay between when the monitors' electronics receive the video data and when it is displayed on the screen as compared to an analog CRT monitor.

A low pixel response time minimizes blurring and ghosting and a low input lag minimizes the lag between when someone pops up into view and when you actually see it on screen. IMHO, input lag is fairly important especially if you're older and your eye to hand reflex is not what it used to be.

CRT monitors are still the best gaming monitors for FPS games.

If you go into this review you will see that the Samsung SM2233RZ is their reference gaming monitor.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_ew2420.htm

The interesting point is that many of the current crop of budget IPS panel monitors (good for image work) have pretty good input lag.

I can tell you that when I switched from gaming on my Samsung 215TW with its typical 35 to 45ms input lag to my Dell 2209WA with its 9ms average input lag, my K-D ratio improved significantly in FPS's. Was it the monitors' low input lag or being able to see detail in dark areas or just a coincidence of experience level taking me over a threshold? I'm not sure.

Most of the latest budget IPS monitors are in 16:9 format which works well for console games but can be used with PC's as well.

The results TFT Central reports are a bit different than what other sites report. Here's another site where you can compare monitors.

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&ma2=36&mo2=458&p2=4495&ph=12

Note that there are a variety of tests you can compare with and two others are for pixel response time.

.

[Professional]

The best LCD gaming monitor would have a "TN" TFT panel. These are not ideal for image work.

For gaming, especially fast action first person shooters, it is all about the pixel response time (often stated as typical 2ms gtg, gray to gray) and the input lag which is the time delay between when the monitors' electronics receive the video data and when it is displayed on the screen as compared to an analog CRT monitor.

A low pixel response time minimizes blurring and ghosting and a low input lag minimizes the lag between when someone pops up into view and when you actually see it on screen. IMHO, input lag is fairly important especially if you're older and your eye to hand reflex is not what it used to be.

CRT monitors are still the best gaming monitors for FPS games.

If you go into this review you will see that the Samsung SM2233RZ is their reference gaming monitor.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/benq_ew2420.htm

The interesting point is that many of the current crop of budget IPS panel monitors (good for image work) have pretty good input lag.

I can tell you that when I switched from gaming on my Samsung 215TW with its typical 35 to 45ms input lag to my Dell 2209WA with its 9ms average input lag, my K-D ratio improved significantly in FPS's. Was it the monitors' low input lag or being able to see detail in dark areas or just a coincidence of experience level taking me over a threshold? I'm not sure.

Most of the latest budget IPS monitors are in 16:9 format which works well for console games but can be used with PC's as well.

The results TFT Central reports are a bit different than what other sites report. Here's another site where you can compare monitors.

http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php?ty=6&ma1=88&ma2=36&mo2=458&p2=4495&ph=12

Note that there are a variety of tests you can compare with and two others are for pixel response time.

.

So what do you recommend or what will be your choice?

[Newsy]

So what do you recommend or what will be your choice?

I wouldn't buy a monitor with a "TN" panel period. I use my Dell 2209WA for gaming - it's now discontinued.

Sorry, no suggestions

.

[Overfocused]

If Dell has reversed their policy I'd like to know as I will add this as a caveat in recommending this monitor in the future.

I'm not sure anymore, I read numerous posts of multiple swap-outs, and the seller I purchased from also says Dell will do a 1 day swap. I think their swap out refusal refers to people who don't color calibrate, and the whole screen is of a poor hue just because of a lack of calibration.


If you can find one that's not a gamble (like one pretested by a seller on ebay) then its worth it. Otherwise, I wouldn't buy it directly from Dell or a store that won't test it for you. Ever.

[Overfocused]

Seems Dell is trying to fix the problem without admitting it, to save $ avoiding replacements of the A00 and A01 revisions:

http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/t/19297120.aspx?PageIndex=9

I got an A02 off Ebay and it is perfectly back lit, with a SLIGHT magenta tint in the center. Its only noticable on pure white/light grey backgrounds. During color editing I don't even see it. I got lucky :)

So... ONLY BUY REVISION A02 OR LATER. lol.

[Newsy]

So... ONLY BUY REVISION A02 OR LATER. lol.

Dell has been shipping a rev A04 made in December. Too early to tell if it still has the tinting issues.

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