Beware using Pay Pal "Gift"

[captain78]

If you use the pay pal "gift" mode to avoid paying the fee, pay pal will not help you if there is a dispute with the transaction.

[Bsimon]

Paypal has its place but it seems to be getting more and more cumbersome. Anytime I sell now, I let the customer use their credit card and process it through MTG on my phone and email a receipt.

[r3t1awr3yd]

Paypal didn't help me in the past when I used the regular "goods" mode lol.

[Seymore]

I've been pondering this for some time now and wonder how you know this... and do you have any proof to back up your words?

[yendikeno]

I've been pondering this for some time now and wonder how you know this... and do you have any proof to back up your words?

I'm not the Captain, but there was a recent thread at Fred Miranda's site discussing this very issue. Seems that PayPal was cracking down on sellers who used this option too many times. I'll try to find that thread and post a link.

EDIT - here's the link - http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/960825

[Seymore]

EDIT - here's the link - http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/960825

Thank you! Explains alot... :thumb

[dogwood]

Honestly, I avoid Paypal for anything whenever possible.

Why? It's a major PITA to use (for example the repeated requests to log-in when all you want to do is pay for something). They spam you constantly too. And opting out of their spam takes ten days (!) during which time they continue to spam you.

Ironically, while Paypal apparently can't turn off their spam easily, they were able to instantly cut-off donations to Wikileaks.

That aside, there's about eight million other reasons to hate paypal -- enough to create plenty of content for a website called paypalsucks.com (http://www.paypalsucks.com/)

On the other hand, I've had fairly good success with google checkout. Just my personal experience, of course. I'm sure paypal wouldn't still be around if they totally sucked :rofl

[Pupator]

This is not directed at the OP, but to the topic in general:

I'm no Paypal fan, but why would anyone expect them to help you in a dispute resolution if you lie about the nature of your transaction? If you try and cheat the system to avoid a fee, you shouldn't be surprised when it comes back to bite you. I think their fees are too high, but part of what you're paying for is some protection when things go bad.

[Art Scott]

If you use the pay pal "gift" mode to avoid paying the fee, pay pal will not help you if there is a dispute with the transaction.


That is exactly correct.......because PayPal was used in a manner strictly forbidden in their rules....it is plainly written.

I have used Paypal before it became part of the Ebay empire (about 11 yrs now) and I have never had a problem with them ....I have never received one piece of PayPal spam....lots of Phishing from hackers using the PayPal logo...but that is forwarded to PayPal and I get a reply stating yes it was a Phishing email and will be dealt with.....never felt their fees were high, but again it is a tax deduction..........

[Overfocused]

Ive been with paypal for 4-5 years now and I don't get spam from them, only a special offer once in a blue moon that was actually something worth considering. Also, yes, I can confirm gifts are not insured since Paypal gets nothing they're not going to help you. You don't even have an option to file a dispute on gift payments in Paypals interface.

[JustinThyme]

This is not directed at the OP, but to the topic in general:

I'm no Paypal fan, but why would anyone expect them to help you in a dispute resolution if you lie about the nature of your transaction? If you try and cheat the system to avoid a fee, you shouldn't be surprised when it comes back to bite you. I think their fees are too high, but part of what you're paying for is some protection when things go bad.

Define protection?

I use paypal but usually avoid the regular fees and use the echeck option which is a $5 flat fee.

Let me tell you a story about protection though. I sold a $3K lens to a gentleman in Oregon. He payed by paypal echeck and as soon as it cleared I shipped the lens and provided a tracking number. Within hours of sending off the tracking number There was a dispute filed stating "does not fit description of purchase". This buyer hadnt even seen the lens yet which BTW was in mint condition. I provided tracking info post haste so they could see it wasnt even there yet. In the meantime my paypal balance was put on hold. I offered full refund including return shipping costs. The money was refunded and the buyer provided a copy of a USPS receipt for parcel post shipping although I paid for fedex overnight. 3 weeks later I received the package and was now a proud owner of a chunk of cinder block that was placed in a box and shipped to me. I contact paypal who informed me that the time frame in which to dispute had already passed. End result, I was out a $3K lens and $3K. Yep that was protection alright!

Story #2
My wife is the treasurer of the local soccer club. They were accepting registration fees via paypal and this group of people all of the same ethnic background banded together and all filed a dispute with paypal on the fees paid after the player passes were issued. There were a suffucient number of dispute filed that paypal in their infinite wisdom froze the account. Well the insurance bill had to be paid post haste and paypal had locked down over $15K in registration fees. The only option to get the moeny to pay the clubs bills was to issue the refunds which still took several days and ended with the insurance lapsing, the club shutting down for a week to get new insurance. Evidently these people had been doing this for a few years and more had joined the group at the direction of a few of the coaches who also happened to be in the smae ethnic group. My wife being the woman she is with this being her first year on the soccer board decided it was time for the free ride to end. She compiled the names and teams they were on and set out to the games the first weekend they started back in again. She went to each and every team and pulled the player passes of every player in on the scam whcih put pretty much everyone of those teams short on players. Most had to forfeit as the parents now ran for their checkbooks and my wife cut them off at the pass stating CASH only! They not only had to pay for that year but the previous years they slid by with it. Those who refused to pay, believe me there were plenty of them, were permantly banned from play in the state of NJ. Paypal in action again!

While its a convenient way to send money dont count on the protection especially if you are a seller!

[digger2]

How you send the money to paypal. If you fund from your bank account and send it as a gift then you will not get help.
I always fund it from my credit card. If needed I will dispute it that way, but i have always found paypal to be helpfull.
You get what you pay for.
Would I send $$ to a total stranger? Of course not, I do not care what there rating or number of postings is.

[Seymore]

And these examples show why I prefer to speak with the other end person, selling or buying. A judgement call as far as the person on line and their persona and how things match on the email end also helps to tell if a personal check or USPS MO will be OK. Not really preferring PP these days. Don't really need their assurances if you do your own legwork and you feel you can trust your gut. YMMV...

[Angelo]

...I'm no Paypal fan, but why would anyone expect them to help you in a dispute resolution if you lie about the nature of your transaction? If you try and cheat...


+! :scratch



.

[JMichaelK]

Define protection?

I use paypal but usually avoid the regular fees and use the echeck option which is a $5 flat fee.

Let me tell you a story about protection though. I sold a $3K lens to a gentleman in Oregon. He payed by paypal echeck and as soon as it cleared I shipped the lens and provided a tracking number. Within hours of sending off the tracking number There was a dispute filed stating "does not fit description of purchase". This buyer hadnt even seen the lens yet which BTW was in mint condition. I provided tracking info post haste so they could see it wasnt even there yet. In the meantime my paypal balance was put on hold. I offered full refund including return shipping costs. The money was refunded and the buyer provided a copy of a USPS receipt for parcel post shipping although I paid for fedex overnight. 3 weeks later I received the package and was now a proud owner of a chunk of cinder block that was placed in a box and shipped to me. I contact paypal who informed me that the time frame in which to dispute had already passed. End result, I was out a $3K lens and $3K. Yep that was protection alright!

Story #2
My wife is the treasurer of the local soccer club. They were accepting registration fees via paypal and this group of people all of the same ethnic background banded together and all filed a dispute with paypal on the fees paid after the player passes were issued. There were a suffucient number of dispute filed that paypal in their infinite wisdom froze the account. Well the insurance bill had to be paid post haste and paypal had locked down over $15K in registration fees. The only option to get the moeny to pay the clubs bills was to issue the refunds which still took several days and ended with the insurance lapsing, the club shutting down for a week to get new insurance. Evidently these people had been doing this for a few years and more had joined the group at the direction of a few of the coaches who also happened to be in the smae ethnic group. My wife being the woman she is with this being her first year on the soccer board decided it was time for the free ride to end. She compiled the names and teams they were on and set out to the games the first weekend they started back in again. She went to each and every team and pulled the player passes of every player in on the scam whcih put pretty much everyone of those teams short on players. Most had to forfeit as the parents now ran for their checkbooks and my wife cut them off at the pass stating CASH only! They not only had to pay for that year but the previous years they slid by with it. Those who refused to pay, believe me there were plenty of them, were permantly banned from play in the state of NJ. Paypal in action again!

While its a convenient way to send money dont count on the protection especially if you are a seller!
This is almost exactly my experience. I found out there are a lot of people who have figured out how to use PayPal to steal your money and things. They know that PayPal will do nothing to help you. If you sell something, the scam artist waits until right moment, disputes the order somehow and PayPal refunds their money. They proceed keep whatever you sent them and either lie that they did not receive the item, or say it is defective and they send you an empty box back. They then turn around and sell the exact item they stole from you using PayPal. PayPal cares nothing about people, only money.

[Ragon]

I've used PayPal for years and have never had a problem with them. The way I understood it was that PayPal ONLY protects you when the purchase or sale was done thru eBay and eBay only. I bought a cell phone from eBay once and it must have been stolen because it couldn't be turned on through Verizon. Told eBay and PayPal and within a few weeks I have a full refund (shipping too). That's the only issue that I have had with them and it turned out great!

[Andy]

Honestly, I avoid Paypal for anything whenever possible.

Why? It's a major PITA to use (for example the repeated requests to log-in when all you want to do is pay for something). They spam you constantly too. And opting out of their spam takes ten days (!) during which time they continue to spam you.

Ironically, while Paypal apparently can't turn off their spam easily, they were able to instantly cut-off donations to Wikileaks.

That aside, there's about eight million other reasons to hate paypal -- enough to create plenty of content for a website called paypalsucks.com (http://www.paypalsucks.com/)

On the other hand, I've had fairly good success with google checkout. Just my personal experience, of course. I'm sure paypal wouldn't still be around if they totally sucked :rofl

Never once got spam from Paypal, been using them for what, 10+ years now? I love shopping online at websites that take Paypal, so easy to complete a transaction, just a few clicks and boom-done. I've done hundreds and hundreds of transactions over the years and never, ever had a single problem as buyer or seller.

I also use Google Checkout for some things.

[Mark Dickinson]

Andy, have you tried that www.squareup.com <-- twitter creator made the device and CC acceptance... I just got it and love it so far. Paypal is great... you just have to protect yourself by doing the right thing, Forget about paying fee's its 10.00 typically on bigger items, its not worth it. the internet is an anonymous grounds for scammers. I never get spam either. IF you browse the internet a ton, and submit your emails to everything, you might get spam from phishing sites.

[ThatCanonGuy]

Let me tell you a story about protection though. I sold a $3K lens to a gentleman in Oregon. He payed by paypal echeck and as soon as it cleared I shipped the lens and provided a tracking number. Within hours of sending off the tracking number There was a dispute filed stating "does not fit description of purchase". This buyer hadnt even seen the lens yet which BTW was in mint condition. I provided tracking info post haste so they could see it wasnt even there yet. In the meantime my paypal balance was put on hold. I offered full refund including return shipping costs. The money was refunded and the buyer provided a copy of a USPS receipt for parcel post shipping although I paid for fedex overnight. 3 weeks later I received the package and was now a proud owner of a chunk of cinder block that was placed in a box and shipped to me. I contact paypal who informed me that the time frame in which to dispute had already passed. End result, I was out a $3K lens and $3K. Yep that was protection alright!

Ouch! Yeah, that doesn't make paypal sound too good does it?

Very classy to use the word "gentleman" there.

[Mark Dickinson]

3k is hell of a lot, that'd be worth a drive....

[captain78]

3k is hell of a lot, that'd be worth a drive....
I agree

[JustinThyme]

Worth a Drive across country to kick his ass maybe! Then what? I end up in the slammer.
Bottom line is they dont offer what they advertise. The disputes are settled most likely by a data entry clerk that just looks briefly and makes a click with an automated response.
Im just saying dont use paypal with the expectations of them protecting anything if it goes south.

[Mark Dickinson]

Worth a Drive across country to kick his ass maybe! Then what? I end up in the slammer.
Bottom line is they dont offer what they advertise. The disputes are settled most likely by a data entry clerk that just looks briefly and makes a click with an automated response.
Im just saying dont use paypal with the expectations of them protecting anything if it goes south.

LOL not advocating violence, but typically simple battery will not extradite over a 1 state border... Not only that but to do a fraud report in his city, and have him arrested would be very nice.

[Shayebryd]

Sorry if this is in the wrong place, wasn't sure where to post it! :)


I am interested in making a purchase online in a forum and they require payment by PayPal gift..........not really sure what that means and if I should have any concerns.

This seller also states he is a seller on Ebay with a good rating. I did check and his rating looks fine.

Wouldn't it be to my advantage to have him sell the item to me directly from his Ebay account as then I would have buyers protection? Or is there a difference between paying by PayPal and PayPal Gift? With PayPal Gift can you use your credit card on account or does it have to come directly from your bank account?

Haven't bought online from a private individual like this and know of others nightmares, but also have heard many successful stories. Anyone have any experience or information that might be helpful?

It is for a sizable amount and a bit nervous about possible risks.

Thank you in advance!!! http://clickinmoms.com/forums/images/smilies/smsmile.gif

[ThatCanonGuy]

Using paypal gift to make purchases is strictly forbidden by paypal and if they catch you they can shut down your paypal account. It's what a lot of sellers do to avoid the fee. However, with "gift" paypal will not protect you in a dispute.

The seller is probably reliable and is most likely just used to doing this to avoid the fee. I recommend you ask him if you can add (I think it's 3-6%) money to do regular paypal. With a large purchase like this I would not risk the "gift" thing; personally I avoid that altogether :).

edit: I think this belongs in flea market ;~).

[Pupator]

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=179530

Check out that thread which is at the very top of the Flea Market.

[bennet]

I do it all the time and usually to members with good feedback. I wouldn't do it if the member is new though.

[Art Scott]

Using paypal gift to make purchases is strictly forbidden by paypal and if they catch you they can shut down your paypal account. It's what a lot of sellers do to avoid the fee. However, with "gift" paypal will not protect you in a dispute.

The seller is probably reliable and is most likely just used to doing this to avoid the fee. I recommend you ask him if you can add (I think it's 3-6%) money to do regular paypal. With a large purchase like this I would not risk the "gift" thing; personally I avoid that altogether :).

edit: I think this belongs in flea market ;~).

From my own experience.....do not for any reason buy anything using paypal gift......I got screwed on a $1200 lens purchase, the guy was a forum regular and had favorable feedback and the alias he gave for ebay had only good feedback ( I did not know the forum did not allow negative feedback until I tried to leave some for the seller) and cannot even post negative feedback on the forum i purchased it off of..........it is going to cost me over $400 to get problem fixed..................................

It is not worth the risk........I just bought some lights and a PCB PLM off ebay and the seller told me it cost more than I paid for shipping...the amount was minuscule ...so I offered to send paypal gift...to me that is ok, with me.....but I will not send until it arrives and I know it really did cost the extra.......I do not trust people when it comes to things like this...............

[Shayebryd]

Thank you everyone so much for your input!!!

As good of a deal as I think I would have gotten....I am staying completely away from the whole thing!

You guys might have just saved me the biggest headache of the year! Lol!!!

(OK........so anyone here have a pristine Canon 70-200L 2.8 IS they want to unload for a sweet price?:wink)

[FLYING EYEBALL]

You could just offer to pay the fees and the seller would probably go for it.

just my .02

[Shayebryd]

Thank you Flying Eyeball...........I'll look into that :)

[MelmoK]

Another thing is that in my experience YOU, the buyer still get dinged with paypal fees to send a gift. So honestly it's more worth it just to pay the fees up front, the normal way, and have a slightly higher chance at protection (not that I trust pp any farther then I can throw them). I with that pp would remove the gift option, it's a headache and I'm so tired of seeing sellers 'GIFT ONLY' please.

[FLYING EYEBALL]

Another thing is that in my experience YOU, the buyer still get dinged with paypal fees to send a gift. So honestly it's more worth it just to pay the fees up front, the normal way, and have a slightly higher chance at protection (not that I trust pp any farther then I can throw them). I with that pp would remove the gift option, it's a headache and I'm so tired of seeing sellers 'GIFT ONLY' please.

Buyers don't get dinged with fees for sending $$ via the gift option.

[angevin1]

This seller also states he is a seller on Ebay with a good rating. I did check and his rating looks fine.


You've gotten sage advice about navigating away from the 'gift' option.

I will add I bought from a 'good-rating' seller on eBay once who was using Mom's acct. and he was a deadbeat!

[MelmoK]

I sent my sister in law some money to make a purchase in another state for me via gift and was charged fees. And my aunt sent me some for the same reason and was charged fees.

[chunin]

I sent my sister in law some money to make a purchase in another state for me via gift and was charged fees. And my aunt sent me some for the same reason and was charged fees.

That is because you wanted to source the money witha credit card. Absolutely positively no fee for gift payment to either party if sourced from checking or paypal balance. Nowhere in the world you can get free money from a credit card.

[senorjax]

I think 'buyer protection' with Paypal and Ebay is a myth anyway, but at least they tell you upfront that Paypal Gift doesn't offer it. I'd never use PP gift to pay for a purchase simply because it seems like a deceitful way to get around something you're not entitled to. And I'd absolutely NOT buy anything from someone who asks me to lie. Bad sign if you ask me.

Regarding the OP's quandry, one thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is to offer to split the fees. Each party picking up half the expense seems reasonable. Why should the seller take the whole hit, or why should they ask the buyer to take the whole hit? Or skip Paypal and use a tried and true method like USPS money orders.

[Shayebryd]

If you pay with a money order then you really have no protection..........at least with PayPal you have hopefully some recourse if you should not receive the purchased item.

When you purchase by PayPal and chose to use a credit card as payment......does that give you double protection if you have a problem with the purchase? If PayPal fails to honor protection would you then have your credit card company to fall back on?

What is the best way to protect yourself when buying from an individual online?

[chunin]

You can file a charge back if you don't get an item. If it is not as described then it is more complicated.


If you pay with a money order then you really have no protection..........at least with PayPal you have hopefully some recourse if you should not receive the purchased item.

When you purchase by PayPal and chose to use a credit card as payment......does that give you double protection if you have a problem with the purchase? If PayPal fails to honor protection would you then have your credit card company to fall back on?

What is the best way to protect yourself when buying from an individual online?

[frank2001]

If you pay with a money order then you really have no protection..........at least with PayPal you have hopefully some recourse if you should not receive the purchased item.

When you purchase by PayPal and chose to use a credit card as payment......does that give you double protection if you have a problem with the purchase? If PayPal fails to honor protection would you then have your credit card company to fall back on?

What is the best way to protect yourself when buying from an individual online?

If you pay with "gift" there is no expectation of receiving anything so paypal can not do anything for you even if you use a credit card..
As another suggested I would offer to split the fee 50/50.
If the seller is not willing to do that move on.
Paypal didn't used to get involved in anything other than not receiving an item purchased outside of ebay but now they do so you are somewhat but not totally safe when using regular Paypal.
Be sure and list the item in detail including a full description of the stated condition in the transaction though or you have no proof to show of what you bought should a claim need to be filled.

[mr peas]

This always depends on the person you're dealing with. I've paid for things via PP-gift all the time on FM, including a pricey 70-200 2.8 IS. I didn't find any trouble with, but that's b/c I took the time to make the best effort to find a decent seller, with stellar feedback. But let's say you sent $500 to me and I didn't send you the item in a week via normal PP. I could have deposited that money already and the people at PP won't be able to take that money back from my bank account. So either way, in-order for you to get your money back from me, it has to be sitting in my PP-account. Personally if you feel that you need the 'protection' pay the 3% difference, its not even a lot. But if someone is going to rip you off, they're going to rip you off w/ or w/out PP fees. And let's say you do get your money back, you just lost precious time that could have been used to utilize or use that money elsewhere. Either way, you're at a lose/lose situation. Just do your research and don't impulse buy. If a deal looks too good to be true or the seller has a bunch of negative feedback, don't pull the trigger! That is all.

[Shayebryd]

Be sure and list the item in detail including a full description of the stated condition in the transaction though or you have no proof to show of what you bought should a claim need to be filled.


Thank you.....good information to know!

[Shayebryd]

This always depends on the person you're dealing with. I've paid for things via PP-gift all the time on FM, including a pricey 70-200 2.8 IS. I didn't find any trouble with, but that's b/c I took the time to make the best effort to find a decent seller, with stellar feedback. But let's say you sent $500 to me and I didn't send you the item in a week via normal PP. I could have deposited that money already and the people at PP won't be able to take that money back from my bank account. So either way, in-order for you to get your money back from me, it has to be sitting in my PP-account. Personally if you feel that you need the 'protection' pay the 3% difference, its not even a lot. But if someone is going to rip you off, they're going to rip you off w/ or w/out PP fees. And let's say you do get your money back, you just lost precious time that could have been used to utilize or use that money elsewhere. Either way, you're at a lose/lose situation. Just do your research and don't impulse buy. If a deal looks too good to be true or the seller has a bunch of negative feedback, don't pull the trigger! That is all.

Thank you!

[billythek]

Even if you DON'T use PayPal gift, you are not protected on a forum sale. PayPal's buyer protection only applies to Ebay purchases. If you use a credit card through PayPal, you may have protection through them, but you have to make sure the right option is turned on in PayPal (they make it difficult to do that).

[billythek]

Even if you DON'T use PayPal gift, you are not protected on a forum sale. PayPal's buyer protection only applies to Ebay purchases. If you use a credit card through PayPal, you may have protection through them, but you have to make sure the right option is turned on in PayPal (they make it difficult to do that).

I should add, that applies to disputes about the condition of the item received. I believe they do protect you if the seller can't prove he shipped an item to you.

[Michel Souris]

I can only relate that PayPal was terrific when a seller defaulted on sending me an expensive lens, after I'd paid thru' PayPal. Once I complained, PayPal quickly followed up and refunded my money - by taking it from the seller's credit card, I believe. I don't know how they did it, but I was happy.

[holzphoto]

I should add, that applies to disputes about the condition of the item received. I believe they do protect you if the seller can't prove he shipped an item to you.


I dont think this is true anymore. I think they cover anything purchased thru paypal under the buyer protection plan.

[Art Scott]

Even if you DON'T use PayPal gift, you are not protected on a forum sale. PayPal's buyer protection only applies to Ebay purchases. If you use a credit card through PayPal, you may have protection through them, but you have to make sure the right option is turned on in PayPal (they make it difficult to do that).

They have helped me on non ebay forum purchases and I do not think it was any sort of special case........I have been using PayPal since waaaaaay before they were bought by ebay and they were a fledgling company........

[DoctorIt]

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=179530

Check out that thread which is at the very top of the Flea Market.Now merged into one thread :thumb

[Silverfox1]

I ONLY deal with folks that provide me with there full names, residence address, and current Phone number contact. I call them personally if im buying or selling and i have always used Pay-Pal/ Gift option with no problems.

I guess it helps me since i have a son whom is an investigator for the local County Sheriffs dept. and i can verify anyones provided info within 5 minutes if needed when any suspicion rears its head. :nono

Regards, :wink

[DoctorIt]

I ONLY deal with folks that provide me with there full names, residence address, and current Phone number contact. I call them personally if im buying or selling and i have always used Pay-Pal/ Gift option with no problems.

I guess it helps me since i have a son whom is an investigator for the local County Sheriffs dept. and i can verify anyones provided info within 5 minutes if needed when any suspicion rears its head. :nono

Regards, :winkDon't you need someone's permission to run a criminal background check?

[Mark Dickinson]

No, nor their drivers license, or any other public bits of information. But his son could get in trouble for using police databases for personal use, unless theres an active investigation going and typically they will include it in the report anyway. Especially running ncic checks on people and they get whiff of it and complain, then the officer who did it has to answer why.

[Silverfox1]

Don't you need someone's permission to run a criminal background check?

No i surely dont if their is probable cause in the State of Texas or across State lines.

Every Jurisdiction also has an investigator that can run & verify your location thru your I.P. address also.

Are you in LE ? Obviously not.

And who said anything about a criminal BG check ?

The 3 items i suggested you always ask and verify simply tells you if the person is for real and no impersonator.

#1. Here is my home found on Google simply with my resident address:

http://www.trulia.com/homes/Texas/Houston/sold/22622903-11407-Sagewhite-Dr-Houston-TX-77089

So i never insinuated a PC existed to run a BG check but anytime an Officer even pulls you over he or she can determine if probable cause [PC] justifies 1st a warrant check, and 2nd a BG if an open warrant is found.

Everytime you hand your DL to an Officer you are run for outstanding warrants of any nature.


Regards,

[Art Scott]

<SNIP> ..........i have always used Pay-Pal/ Gift option with no problems.
<snip>

Regards, :wink

If PayPal finds you making purchases with the Gift Option they can / will close your acct and also the other persons acct......it is in their rules.....Hope you never get caught....

[Silverfox1]

Well, i dont use credit cards like so many folks do and simply use my personal checking account to forward cash instant transfer. I realize the banks & credit cards nickel & dime folks to death and charge people 15 to 28 % interest and then pay retired people less then 1% on a CD.

Before i retired i paid everything off in regards to credit cards and threw em in the garbage where IMO is where they all belong.

So if Pay-Pal closed my account for using my own cash money it sure wont break my heart i assure you.

Regards

[time2smile]

FYI, just say no to paypal gift, if thats what the seller wants, than they have no ethics and should be banned from the Smug..............

Its time to take a stand and make thing right.................