Cant post pics....

[DewrGleision]

Ummm, I cant post pics larger than 117kbs? All my pictures are atleast 800 plus... what do I do?

[dkapp]

Ummm, I cant post pics larger than 117kbs? All my pictures are atleast 800 plus... what do I do?

You can resize the pictures to be 600-800 pixels on the longest side. It makes it easy for people browsing the forums.

Another thought would be to get a basic smugmug account. With a referral code, it is only $25/year.

If you already have a smugmug account, you can link the medium (-M) photo to the thread.

Let me know if you need more help.
Dave

[DewrGleision]

600-800 pixels?! Man! Thats kinda small, isnt it?! I mean, what good is an 8MP pic shrunk down like that? Everytime I try to resize my pics to a smaller size, I always get artifacts and other garbage... Then again, the only software I have right now is Jasc Paint Shop Pro... I need better software......
But yeah, Im definitely looking into the smugmug thing! Looks very tantilizing... Mmmmm... Tasty... :slurp
Thanks for your help though!

[Bryan]

600-800 pixels?! Man! Thats kinda small, isnt it?! I mean, what good is an 8MP pic shrunk down like that? Everytime I try to resize my pics to a smaller size, I always get artifacts and other garbage... Then again, the only software I have right now is Jasc Paint Shop Pro... I need better software......
But yeah, Im definitely looking into the smugmug thing! Looks very tantilizing... Mmmmm... Tasty... :slurp
Thanks for your help though!
Well then along those lines, why display a 300+dpi image on a medium that only shows 72dpi (monitors)? Right there you make a significant savings in the size of the image. But yea, sometinges images are lost on the computer screen, it is not until it s printed that you see its true colors (so to speak). :D

[Andy]

600-800 pixels?! Man! Thats kinda small, isnt it?! I mean, what good is an 8MP pic shrunk down like that? Everytime I try to resize my pics to a smaller size, I always get artifacts and other garbage... Then again, the only software I have right now is Jasc Paint Shop Pro... I need better software......
But yeah, Im definitely looking into the smugmug thing! Looks very tantilizing... Mmmmm... Tasty... :slurp
Thanks for your help though!

psp is a very very powerful image editor. don't count it out! i know several pros who use it and use it very well.

as far as web usage - use psp's "save for web" setting and you'll be fine. btw 800px on the longest side is great for dgrin viewing ;-)

[wxwax]

Hi dewr,

If I'm catching your drift correctly.... you might want to not openly solicit illegal program sharing. Just a suggestion - could lead to problems! If I have your drift wrong, sorry about that!

WRT photo size... I've tripped up before on the difference between ppi and dpi... I think you might be too.

[mystic7]

Alright then, I yeild! Monitors only do 72 dpi?! Then whats all this about resolutions and such? Doesnt a higher resolution imply denser elements and thus a higher dpi? I have my monitor set at 1280x768 (its a Dell widescreen LCD/TV); is my dpi the same at this resolution as it is at, say, 600x800?

Hey, is anyone here part of a file-sharing program? I love Morpheus; got Paint Shop Pro--the latest version--and an update patch for free! Legally, I might add! So, anybody have it on their PC and want to share? Please?:bow

If anyone wants to know the best place to get Morpheus, try www.morpheus.com (http://www.morpheus.com/) , and theyll send you to the best mirror site (usually downloads.com)... Come one people! Fight the corporate profiteers! You know the programmers get paid the same anyway!:D
DPI or dots per inch, relates to printing. With monitors, it's PPI or pixels per inch.
M7

[DewrGleision]

Hows this work then...?

[DewrGleision]

See? It still looks a bit chitzy and pixeled-out... I played with the photo just a little, as that stupid software I have isnt capable of much...

How much does good software cost, anyway? Would anyone recommend newegg.com for that sort of thing (loyal customer here for computer hardware...)?

[Seamaiden]

Cyano, anyone? :wink

Another one of the fine members here gave me a "tutorial" on how to get Adobe on the cheap. Ebay the old version, pay for the most recent upgrade.

I like Irfanview to do basic-basic stuff in Windows, and because I can't lay out the cashola for Adobe, I'm using GIMP here in my Linux platform. However, my real goal is to get stuff looking GREAT right off the shot, rather than having to do anything more than crop or resize.

Been too busy getting ready for the move up north to do much of anything with my camera lately, though.. argh.

[DewrGleision]

Youre moving north? Whereabouts? Not as far north as I, right?

I want what most people use now and can swear by... I dont know much about Adobe... I do know its a pretty big/good name though...

Yeah, I wish I could tweak the camera a bit more and get stuff dialed in so that I need minimal computer tuning... But youre not gonna need to do that, damn you! YOURE getting the 10D, you jerk! I sat next to a Sikh on the plane trip back from Heathrow (the worst airport in history), so Im learning how to be thankful and junk, but thats the camera I asked/wanted/lusted after for a good long time!!!! AAAARRRGGGGGHHHHH It undoubtedly takes better pictures and is more versatile than my f828! But... I got better resolution/MPs...

Yeah, I have no idea what to do with the cyano!!!! IF ITS NOT FREAKING GREEN HAIR, ITS GOD BLOODY FREAKING HELL OF THE RED SLIME!!! AAAAARRRGGGGHHHH!!!!!!!
I dont know what it feeds off of, and I dont want to dump chemicals in the tank cause I got my lovely rBTA in there now ($50 bucks! Beat that deal for a rarer coloration!!!)

[Andy]

See? It still looks a bit chitzy and pixeled-out... I played with the photo just a little, as that stupid software I have isnt capable of much...

How much does good software cost, anyway? Would anyone recommend newegg.com for that sort of thing (loyal customer here for computer hardware...)?

you can buy paintshop pro or photoshop elements for between $30 and $90 usd. check online.

and there's gimp, which i believe is freeware or shareware.

[DewrGleision]

Thanks andy! I guess its cheaper than I thought! Is there a better version for a moderate stepup in price?

Hey seamaiden, how do you like my new avatar? I call it, "Ghost of Budo's W00tness"! Artistic license? I think so!

[Andy]

Thanks andy! I guess its cheaper than I thought! Is there a better version for a moderate stepup in price?

Hey seamaiden, how do you like my new avatar? I call it, "Ghost of Budo's W00tness"! Artistic license? I think so!

better? with psp or pse, you can accomplish so much! they're both quite powerful. the next step up would be photoshop 8, at $650 +

[DewrGleision]

Ahh, thats the price I was cringing for in the first place!no wonder... Whats so much better about 8 for it to cost so much!?!? free camera with it or something?!

[DewrGleision]

Somebody's deleting my posts!

[DewrGleision]

*Chortle* :rofl
Right now Im about 66% into the download of Photoshop 8.0! I didnt know that it was until I checked back here after I had started the download!
Im gonna wait and see if it works before I jump to conclusions, but its a zipped file so far...
If I get it and it works, anybody who wants to know more about how I got it can PM me, cause I think theres some sort of "Big Brother" post-shark deleting my posts that apparently pertain to A)file sharing, and B) realizing that someone is deleting my posts! Of course, I could just be insane...
Im holding my breath to see if this post makes it!

[wxwax]

Dewr, think maybe it's a demo version of PS CS?

[Seamaiden]

I am moving up to Lake Tahoe - you tell me if it's further north than you, cuzza I don't know. I believe it was Rutt who told me about getting an old version of Adobe, then buying the upgrade. That is, if I recollect correctly, a good way to get the full Monty, so to speak.

It isn't me who's getting the 10D, it's the s.o. He'll share, though. :wink I am pretty sure he's going to get the U.W. housing, I wish Ben would stop in.. gonna have to pm him via RDO I think. He's a bigtime scuba-dude.

As for the cyano, I haven't kept track of your efforts to erradicate, but you've been gone, so a few really big water changes should help. If you can AT ALL, get natural (filtered) seawater.

[DewrGleision]

Dood, seamaiden! Im in NAPA! Tahoe is south of me and to the east. Beautiful place, as I take it you know! Hey, if Im up there snowboarding, can I crash at your place? :D

Ive been pondering that for a while now... How could I get seawater, and somehow filter it to a point where it is natural and pure again? Like MEGA loads of carbon and other chemical filtrations or something over like a day period? Or is there an established way to get it? Im not that far fromt the coast, and Id be willing to make the drive (its one of the most gorgeous drives to ever motor on!)... PM me if you have significant info...!

wxwax, it says Photoshop 8.0, so thats what Ill call it until I open the file and snoop around!
By the way, did you ever see my post explaining the whole file-sharing thing? It seems to have vanished, and I wont call it a dead issue, since thats how Im getting the file...

[Andy]

*Chortle* :rofl
Right now Im about 66% into the download of Photoshop 8.0! I didnt know that it was until I checked back here after I had started the download!
Im gonna wait and see if it works before I jump to conclusions, but its a zipped file so far...
If I get it and it works, anybody who wants to know more about how I got it can PM me, cause I think theres some sort of "Big Brother" post-shark deleting my posts that apparently pertain to A)file sharing, and B) realizing that someone is deleting my posts! Of course, I could just be insane...
Im holding my breath to see if this post makes it!

dewr - if you are paying for photoshop, please feel free to share the deal you got. if not, please keep it to yourself, not on the forum.

i'm a photographer who cares deeply about intellectual property and copyrights. the last thing i'd hate to see is my images printed up and being distributed by someone else.

andy

[wxwax]

Yes, I saw your post, dewr. Someone pointed out that although it's freeware, it's still against the user's license for one user to share it with another. Seems silly, but it's an agreement each users enters into if they acquire the freeware legitmately.

For reasons best known to themselves, Adobe moved away from the numbering with their latest release. Instead of Photoshop 8, they offically called it Photoshop CS. Something to do with trumpeting its web capabilities, or its ability to work with other Adobe programs, or something.

[Andy]

Yes, I saw your post, dewr. Someone pointed out that although it's freeware, it's still against the user's license for one user to share it with another. Seems silly, but it's an agreement each users enters into if they acquire the freeware legitmately.

For reasons best known to themselves, Adobe moved away from the numbering with their latest release. Instead of Photoshop 8, they offically called it Photoshop CS. Something to do with trumpeting its web capabilities, or its ability to work with other Adobe programs, or something.

wait, are you saying that there's an actual freeware version? i'm confused :scratch

[DewrGleision]

Hold on there; Im also confused... Youre talking about Morpheus, right wxwax? Thats the freeware? Or Photoshop CS/8? Adobe said it was freeware to begin with? And if its freeware, its against Adobe's will and whim to share it with others?! Then why call it freeware?!

andy, youre confusing your apples with oranges. A picture taken by an individual is unique. I agree, and completely concur with your view on intellectual rights and copyright laws. But what Im talking about is downloading a program that costs almost nothing to produce, is not individual or truly artistic by any official sense, is essentially a very wide profit margin for a company that will eventually turn that extra money into advertising, and is even labeled freeware yet is misleadingly done so--according to their own rules. A computer-nerd friend of mine told me that the programmers and writers get paid essentially the same through a range of period-based sales and revenue margins, so I dont really feel that bad about getting a freaking program for free once in a while... Besides, it wasnt stolen or taken illegally in any way; someone already paid the premiums, and sees fit to share in their investment by making it available to those who pay for a service with patience by watching *literally* millions of advertisments, sometimes of the very company we speak of here.
Sorry if that comes accross as overly defensive and/or backhanded, but those are my feelings on sharing software, not even touching the whole "fair usage rights" thing, pertaining to something else though...

[wxwax]

Sorry for my poor writing. My freeware point was about Morpheus, not Photoshop.

[wxwax]

Sorry if that comes accross as overly defensive and/or backhanded, but those are my feelings on sharing software, not even touching the whole "fair usage rights" thing, pertaining to something else though...

Dewr, bottom line, it's illegal. We may disagree about whether it should or should not be illegal. That's a separate issue. Right now, it is. And so it's poor form for one to broadcast about illegally sharing software. If you're going to do it, at least be discrete.

Additionally, you'll find folks here who are quite passionate about defending copyrights. So you can anticipate getting a chilly reception when you propose violating a copyright. Feel it getting a little nippy? :evil

[DewrGleision]

wxwax, where did you get the info on the copyright laws? Is it something specific to Photoshop? Ive never owned Photoshop (no version), so Ive never read any of the user agreements... Did Morpheus say it was illegal to share files like that? I never read anything like that in the user agreement, and all I remember being told by my geek buddies is that its the one legal way to share files. Why would it be so widely distributed by a reputable download site if it condoned illegal activity? These laws are screwy. Well fine then; I will submit to the whims of a software giant because I dont know any better, and it now seems to have become a telling factor of my morality...
I defend copyright laws too! Im not stealing anything and putting my name on it, essentially one of the main definitions of a copyright. That and selling it/making some sort of profit with other people's hard work; what ever happened to the fair usage rights? Not covered by the software barons? I guess Ive just been conditioned by my buddies to distrust large, faceless corporations, but I still respect the laws. So until things change, Im gonna drop this before I get myself digitally lynched, since this is one of those forums where people can do that...

wxwax; I love the chill air of passionate debate, but turn the other way for passionate assault or insult... :evil

[DewrGleision]

Wait a second; what if someone gave me the software? The same guy that gave me the camera said he wants to get rid of a version of PS CS he has. Would you guys still beat me bloody if I accepted? I mean, sure, he paid for it, but he doesnt want it anymore (I suspect he either doesnt know how to use it [of which I am also guilty], or its somehow defective...)... Is that fair to you guys? Ill just delete the one I downloaded, should any of this be fine and dandy...

[Andy]

Wait a second; what if someone gave me the software? The same guy that gave me the camera said he wants to get rid of a version of PS CS he has. Would you guys still beat me bloody if I accepted? I mean, sure, he paid for it, but he doesnt want it anymore (I suspect he either doesnt know how to use it [of which I am also guilty], or its somehow defective...)... Is that fair to you guys? Ill just delete the one I downloaded, should any of this be fine and dandy...

is that you have a copy of ps 8 that normally sells for hundreds of dollars. you paid $0 for it. i'm not concerned with how you got it, rather that you got it. i think it's stealing, plain and simple. the gift thing doesn't fly, becuase it's being "gifted" over and over and over....

[patch29]

Wait a second; what if someone gave me the software? The same guy that gave me the camera said he wants to get rid of a version of PS CS he has. Would you guys still beat me bloody if I accepted? I mean, sure, he paid for it, but he doesnt want it anymore (I suspect he either doesnt know how to use it [of which I am also guilty], or its somehow defective...)... Is that fair to you guys? Ill just delete the one I downloaded, should any of this be fine and dandy...


Adobe covers that in the EULA. All of the EULA can be found for Adobe's products here. (http://www.adobe.com/products/eulas/main.html) So if all of the terms of transfer are followed, I do not see why someone could not give away (transfer for free) their copy of PS CS.

[patch29]

Adobe also has information on different forms of piracy that can be found here, (http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/antipiracy/piracy.html) for those that are interesting in reading about it.

[DewrGleision]

:D soooo, andy, are you trying to say that its the gift that keeps' on giving?

Soooo, essentially my hunch was right; profiteering is the only thing worth morally supporting in the product/service market... At least to you guys... :D


is that you have a copy of ps 8 that normally sells for hundreds of dollars. you paid $0 for it. i'm not concerned with how you got it, rather that you got it. i think it's stealing, plain and simple.

See? I find that to be a bit contradictory to one of your earlier posts... Share my deal if Im buying it? What difference does it make how much it costs then, right? Therefore, to formally appease your bleeding, capitalist heart, I propose that if it makes you feel better, I will offer to paya grand total of $2 (its a two-dollar bill that Ive had for 7 years [supposedly lucky]) for said software, and peice of mind to use it! :D
Also, the above quote is fairly telling of your opinion of me; you dont care how a broke guy like me gets what he has. Just the fact that he has it--I guess--bugs you, but I guess this is only case I really know of, and I dont really know you, so I wont judge... People cant give gifts? Or is it cops dont take bribes? Is the glass half empty or half full? At this point Im going to ask that if anyone thinks I am breeding unnecessary animosity, please stop me.
Just ask, and I shall never mention anything like this again, and even stop posting here if it should please people/make things better.

In any case, the CD was totaled. I havent seen my CD scratch remover in over a year, so I told him to "hang on" to it... The downloaded file was a farce in any case; I didnt really have very high expectations of what it would be anyway... So Im back to square one, nothing but Jasc PSP and my crappy skills. 'Been an eventful day!

[Andy]

:D soooo, andy, are you trying to say that its the gift that keeps' on giving?

Soooo, essentially my hunch was right; profiteering is the only thing worth morally supporting in the product/service market... At least to you guys... :D


See? I find that to be a bit contradictory to one of your earlier posts... Share my deal if Im buying it? What difference does it make how much it costs then, right? Therefore, to formally appease your bleeding, capitalist heart, I propose that if it makes you feel better, I will offer to paya grand total of $2 (its a two-dollar bill that Ive had for 7 years [supposedly lucky]) for said software, and peice of mind to use it! :D
Also, the above quote is fairly telling of your opinion of me; you dont care how a broke guy like me gets what he has. Just the fact that he has it--I guess--bugs you, but I guess this is only case I really know of, and I dont really know you, so I wont judge... People cant give gifts? Or is it cops dont take bribes? Is the glass half empty or half full? At this point Im going to ask that if anyone thinks I am breeding unnecessary animosity, please stop me.
Just ask, and I shall never mention anything like this again, and even stop posting here if it should please people/make things better.

In any case, the CD was totaled. I havent seen my CD scratch remover in over a year, so I told him to "hang on" to it... The downloaded file was a farce in any case; I didnt really have very high expectations of what it would be anyway... So Im back to square one, nothing but Jasc PSP and my crappy skills. 'Been an eventful day!

i've been in the intellectual and artistic property business for 20 years. it's a moral thing for me. don't take what you haven't paid for, that's all.

i know several pros that only use jasc paintshop pro. it's fine software.

[wxwax]

Did Morpheus say it was illegal to share files like that?


Yes, they did.

It's right here. (http://www.morpheus.com/notices.html)

[wxwax]

Dewr, I understand where you're coming from with the 'faceless corporations' thing. Problem is, what they make and sell is software. Unfortunately, Adobe's software doesn't have the same heft as Chrysler's cars or a Maurice Barninka diamond. Also unlike a car or a diamond, software is easily copied. As a result, it's easy to feel like no crime is being committed when one acquires software for free. And I'm no angel, I've illegally used copies of software myself.

However, it is illegal. It is theft. And when you made public your intent... well, you're in a community where copyright law actually has some personal implications, so you can expect a passionate defense of the law. Folks here are sensitive enough about it that we don't link to photos that are protected by copyright - and that covers about every image on the 'net that isn't in the public domain. So you don't see a lot of shots here that we didn't shoot ourselves.

The Fair Use Doctrine does not apply to software, as far as I'm aware. It covers use of creative and editorial content. Specifically, it allows a media outlet to use copyright material from another outlet, if the use is different from the original use. e.g. A movie is the subject of a critique, or the butt of humor - the original work is now part of a completely different work. That's how Letterman gets away with lifting clips and logos from other shows and channels. Even then, there are tight restrictions.

Software, however, can only be used one way. So the suggestion is to speak softly and be discrete when dealing with copyright issues.

[DewrGleision]

Gotcha. Well, learned my lesson, I guess!

But still, I have this itch in my memmory that says that the fair usage rights "doctrine" was fairly large, and that it had had an appendage made to cover software, relevant to the way people are conducting their affairs on the net now, while still catering to industry... I dont know where I read that, just that it was on the net at some government site... Anyone got a link? And dont disguise it as text! I missed two links before I went back and moved my cursor over "here" (I have the lines turned off...)...

Doesnt matter anymore; all the downloadable PS CSs look like fakes, my "uncle's" CD is ruined, and Ill never be able to pay that much for software! That and the fact that it would be utterly immoral for me to receive the program as a gift for some occasion, as well as the fact that I must, absolutely pay hundreds of dollars for the program, even when its been thoroughly outdated and the price has dropped for the rest of moral America, ensure that bottom dwellers like me will never legally, morally, or legitimately own this software. Amen to that, white Christian America!
Now Ive gone and depressed myself with all this magnanimous totalitarianism, as wells as my own sarcasm... :(:

[Andy]

Gotcha. Well, learned my lesson, I guess!

But still, I have this itch in my memmory that says that the fair usage rights "doctrine" was fairly large, and that it had had an appendage made to cover software, relevant to the way people are conducting their affairs on the net now, while still catering to industry... I dont know where I read that, just that it was on the net at some government site... Anyone got a link? And dont disguise it as text! I missed two links before I went back and moved my cursor over "here" (I have the lines turned off...)...

Doesnt matter anymore; all the downloadable PS CSs look like fakes, my "uncle's" CD is ruined, and Ill never be able to pay that much for software! That and the fact that it would be utterly immoral for me to receive the program as a gift for some occasion, as well as the fact that I must, absolutely pay hundreds of dollars for the program, even when its been thoroughly outdated and the price has dropped for the rest of moral America, ensure that bottom dwellers like me will never legally, morally, or legitimately own this software. Amen to that, white Christian America!
Now Ive gone and depressed myself with all this magnanimous totalitarianism, as wells as my own sarcasm... :(:


what do white christians have to do with software? that's ott - and who says you can't get it as a gift? if someone pays for ps cs, and gives you the license, then everything is legit.

[DewrGleision]

what do white christians have to do with software? that's ott - and who says you can't get it as a gift? if someone pays for ps cs, and gives you the license, then everything is legit.


I dont know, I just saw wxwax's location and was reminded about the prevailing demographic inherent in the South-Eastern United States, so I guess it just reminded me of the whole totalitarianism thing...

Who says I cant get it as a gift? You did.

[DewrGleision]

And by the way, since I dont know what its like to use good software (yet; Ill get there someday...), Id ask you this: does good software make your pictures better or worse? Spare me the photographer schpiel; I know my way around a film camera enough to take great pictures, but the digital world is still confounding me a bit... See, the thing is, even though I pretty much know how to manipulate Jasc PSP to the point where whatever Im looking at can look very different, it usually always is in a bad way. It seems to make my pictures look nastier, like Ive been blowing it up and draining the life and color from it or something, and I just cant explain it! If what you say is true about PSP being at least decent software, then the only thing I have left to consider is A)my knowledge of the program is behind--which I doubt from spending many hours on it--and B) my camera may be the culprit... I guess I can never win.

[Seamaiden]

Of course you can win, just RTFM!


(D'oh! Did I just say that? Hee!)

[DewrGleision]

I read the stupid F manual! Its waaaaayyyy under-comprehensive and not detailed enough... Stupid Sony...

[wxwax]

A)my knowledge of the program is behind--which I doubt from spending many hours on it--and B) my camera may be the culprit... I guess I can never win.

I vote A.

How many books have you read on PSP? How many technical exercises have you tried on it? Show me a layer mask. Cleanly remove your red Ferrari from its background. Or try any one of the other Digital Darkroom Assignments in this forum (http://www.dgrin.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10) (when it's underlined, that means it's a link.) Help yourself. You might just discover how to win.

If the program isn't producing results, I'd strongly suggest that the workman not blame his tools, but figure out how to improve his skills.

[DewrGleision]

Ok, so I never had a real "book" on the program; the manual I lost in the move...
The thing is, the basic functions I want the damn thing to perform seem to foul the shots more than help in some cases, or are essentially ineffectual.
The hours Ive spent have been my own brand of trial and error, so of course I dont know how to use it for mask layers or removing backrounds (actuall, I believe Ive figured the backround thing out, but I still use the automatic selector mode ["magic wand", as they call it]). I told you, I have the lines turned off for links (ok?). I think Ill turn em' on now, since you guys just cant post a link without labeling it with whatever.
Dont mind if I do! Havent really looked through that board much, and I dont really recall there being anything PSP-related there, but I guess I need to look again.
Yeah, yeah; spare me the fortune-cookie wisdom. If it were me, then I would have said the same thing, and I have to myself! I knew I wasnt fully realizing the potential of the program; its just that early on, I sort of discounted an in-depth knowledge of computer-tweaking as necessary for good photos! Man was I wrong! The thing that really tells me how different digital is from film is that I took great shots with my old film SLR, and everything digital seems to be so bloody shaded that extracting a good shot really does now require a knowledge of manipulating them with a program! So I do blame my tools, for being so shady and concealing what I thought was a good shot from me! Its like Im swiming up-stream here!

[Seamaiden]

DG, you're not going to be able to get much help if you insist the problem isn't what lies between the keyboard and the monitor. No one's going to be very willing to help someone who won't accept it.

Over the years, especially since I came of computer age (less than four years now), I've learned to look to myself as the source and the answer to problems I'm experiencing - first, last, and always.

[DewrGleision]

:scratch ... The computer? Thats what lies between the keyboard and the monitor...?

I accept my faults, but I dont accept those that truly arent mine, or turn a blind eye to what a machine is doing, because believe it or not, machines arent perfect or fool-proof. Just look at the Matrix. So there.

[cmr164]

:scratch ... The computer? Thats what lies between the keyboard and the monitor...?
The fingers of the user perhaps...


I accept my faults, but I dont accept those that truly arent mine, or turn a blind eye to what a machine is doing, because believe it or not, machines arent perfect or fool-proof. Just look at the Matrix. So there.
Online research, books... Maybe buying some S/W so you get a manual and company support. I am sorry to say this to you but in the real world, your attitude is a major turnoff.

[DewrGleision]

Thats the other thing Ive wondered about the whole online world...:



I am sorry to say this to you but in the real world, your attitude is a major turnoff.


How does a block of text convey my attitude in any accurate way? Is it just what I write, or the manner and consistency of how I write it? Is it because I dont leave many stones unturned, or submit to the different hierarchies the online world has established by means too simple to accurately do so? What then?
The other slightly comical anomaly that you added was "in the real world", which is even funnier when you consider--if you will--what I just wrote!
There might be some discrepancy here between what is "real", and what is perceived; most people join a forum to discuss and share, but its interesting how different levels of "opinionation" show themselves...
Ummm... Turnoff? What was that movie where the guy kept on saying "that word--I do not think it means what you think it means"?...

Thats it, Im gonna buy some "S/W", but do you think the manual will be as comprehensive as I need it? I mean, look at the manual I got with my camera! I hate to pester the customer support people... And I think you guys just plain hate me anyway, so forget asking you guys... A camera book would be nice; I picked up an issue of "eDigitalPhotography", which I had read a bit before loosing it on my trip through that blasted Heathrow airport(!). I like magazine format publications, but I like the detail of books, so would anyone reccomend a book or magazine that covers these software issues?
Well, you all probably think everything I "say" now is representative of my character, that my attitude is just what you guess it is, and that whatever I ask is now considered pestering, so why dont I just wait for you all to tell me to leave? All I seem to do is agravate people or stir up issues people would rather keep sedimentary anyway.

[lynnma]

Thats the other thing Ive wondered about the whole online world...:


How does a block of text convey my attitude in any accurate way? Is it just what I write, or the manner and consistency of how I write it? Is it because I dont leave many stones unturned, or submit to the different hierarchies the online world has established by means too simple to accurately do so? What then?
The other slightly comical anomaly that you added was "in the real world", which is even funnier when you consider--if you will--what I just wrote!
There might be some discrepancy here between what is "real", and what is perceived; most people join a forum to discuss and share, but its interesting how different levels of "opinionation" show themselves...
Ummm... Turnoff? What was that movie where the guy kept on saying "that word--I do not think it means what you think it means"?...

Thats it, Im gonna buy some "S/W", but do you think the manual will be as comprehensive as I need it? I mean, look at the manual I got with my camera! I hate to pester the customer support people... And I think you guys just plain hate me anyway, so forget asking you guys... A camera book would be nice; I picked up an issue of "eDigitalPhotography", which I had read a bit before loosing it on my trip through that blasted Heathrow airport(!). I like magazine format publications, but I like the detail of books, so would anyone reccomend a book or magazine that covers these software issues?
Well, you all probably think everything I "say" now is representative of my character, that my attitude is just what you guess it is, and that whatever I ask is now considered pestering, so why dont I just wait for you all to tell me to leave? All I seem to do is agravate people or stir up issues people would rather keep sedimentary anyway.Hi Dewr,
I've been listening to you... sounds like you are used to "stiring people up"? We are really all here to try to learn from each other? not to argue or antagonize.. we are not here to judge you, we are just here. You are very welcome to stay and learn along with us all. Why don't you stop being so angry and just chill and take some pictures and let us see what you have, as we all have done. We are all at different levels but there are some great photographers here very willing to freely give us their advice and help... IF we want it and ask for it.
I am totally self taught and had to read a lot of boring manuals and ask a lot of stupid questions to get what I so desperately wanted to know. A lot of people in this forum have helped me so much, it's really a great forum. We do however try to be civil and polite (why not??) just as you would in a classroom or family or on the street? its called respect? We will gladly respect your work and gladly help you in any way we can but only if you really want help and are not just looking for an outlet for your anger and frustration.
Looking forward to seeing some fish pics dewr...
Lynn:D

[Seamaiden]

Alright, "S/W"?

DG, whether you want to see this or not, the 'net world is in many respects part and parcel of the real world. The issue is one very much of semantics, and coupled with the idea of "How would this sound if I heard it sitting in my kitchen?" gives folks an overall impression of a person.

If you are still having a hard time understanding what it is "about you", then I'd like to link you to a site that I think is very helpful for folks in our (collective) positions. It's geared towards people asking OS/computer questions, but is amazingly helpful in all areas, in my opinion at least.

How to ask questions for most helpful responses. (http://www.catb.org/%7Eesr/faqs/smart-questions.html)

[wxwax]

Nice post Lynn, very perceptive. :nod Cool link, 'maiden.

Dewr, making photos better with software takes some skill and some practice. There are many places online where you can find tips and advice for enhancing your photos with PSP.

And here comes a link for you. This is a link. (http://polynate.net/books/freedom/victim.html) Please take its message to heart, and realize that it's meant in the most positive way.

[Seamaiden]

Making photos better with software is a PITA for me, I have to be honest. I don't like messing about with it, because I don't understand what I'm doing. Because of that, I don't always care for my end results. <looking behind me>
(Need to remember to post some pics that did a weird thing with the despeckle feature from my GIMP.)
But, I figure I have a HUGE learning curve going on, I don't know much about photography, let alone SLR photography, let alone digital photography.

I know what I like when I see it, though! Then there's learning the program, and good lord, I've been doing a LOT of difficult learning these past few years. Fish and reefkeeping and all of that is SO much easier for me... speaking of which, I got my avocado seeds to sprout, now I need to learn how to plant them so they'll continue growing. Sheesh. Wish I could grow 'cados in Tahoe.

I still can't figure out what "S/W" means. Hrm.

[wxwax]

I think S/W means software... as in, buy some software to get the manual.

One of the many things I've learned from Andy's posts is that to get the most out of the photo software, it helps to have an idea of what you want the end product to look like. And it takes a good eye and a lot of exposure to good images, to get a feel for what a good "end product" might look like.

So first you sorta have to have an idea what you want, then figure out how to get there. Milling around trying things to see what looks good, may not be very successful. :dunno It sure hasn't been for me.

[Seamaiden]

Well, at least I know what I want the end result to look like, so that's a start.

[DewrGleision]

*~sigh~*......

Im too lazy to respond the way I did before... I had this whole response typed up, explaining the defunctedness of seamaiden's belief that the online world is remotely similar to real life and person to person discussion, and how Im not all what you guys think I am, and blah blah blah... But the Dgrin site seemed to puke the whole thing back at me with a time-out ending in a mandatory re-login and the loss of the message (maybe that IE bug that was in another thread?)...

Im too tired these days to give a crap anymore... Is it ok with you guys if I just forget about this? I wont lie down and die with my convictions as you sense yourselves on the edge of for me... But I will accept my nation's general attitude for a while; apathy is the lazy cousin of ignorance, and theyre blissfully uncomplicated!

Enough of this "victim" garbage, "communications problems", and the rest of the fortune-cookie wisdom you limp prohpets are unloading on a man already sick to death with the austerities of your social dogma and its limited reach... Im just plain too tired now.

Please, if you want to beat me more senseless, do it in PM so we dont sully the board anymore...

Thanks.

PS. If anyone is feeling so, my disclaimer is in my sig-line.