Help on focus issues

[ginger_55]

My main issue w focusing is with flying birds: small ones at all times, fast ones at all times, large/slow ones, too.

This is from the other night. Just addressing this photo, well, I could do that. It is perhaps later than I should expect the lens to focus???? I had an extender on it, maybe.

The story on this one is I was up on the bridge, before the sunset, sweet time, the birds I was seeing, high or low, the lens just could not get. If I had time, I could focus on a large expanse of grass, or something, close to where the bird was and maybe "get" the bird in focus. Thank doG, I did get a Wood Stork, and later than I had any right to expect one. (Since we can only post one photo, you all will just have to trust me on that..........it was much later than this shot that I am posting, and the gods gave me an in focus Wood Stork)

But all in all, the last week, I have seen so many birds in flight and missed because of focusing problems. I have taken the extender off, to maximise my chances of focusing. I am missing the birds, in general. So I put the extender back on, then off.

What do the rest of you do? ISO, f stop, ............... I have hesitated to put this up and ask about it, I am afraid that I have forgotten some questions. So, add any answers that YOU can think of, please.

(Uh, I know the lens here is still focused on the white bird, I know that. I am lucky here that it is focused on something. That is a plus right there. And does anyone know what the birds are that are in flight? The light was gorgeous on them.) This is not the only shot of those birds I missed, it is just that in this shot there is something in focus, so I chose this one. The others are just totally out. And not an attractive blur either.

Also, what about flocks of birds? If possible. I see beautiful flocks sometimes. The lens doesn't want to focus on any of them. And if it did, I can't fit the flock in the lens. What size lens do you use for flocks? And how?

I do better mid day, I do know that, but the birds are less active then for one, and for two, it is not the best time to shoot just about anything. And it is still not easy. I just have problems with this thing.

ginger
http://gingerSnap.smugmug.com/photos/29789111-L.jpg

[XO-Studios]

Ginger,


Looking at the picture, I almost have to assume that the camera was in autofocus, and focussed the grass dead center perfectly and as an added bonus, the bird on the left was in focus as well as it is in the general plane of the grass.

IMHO, and I do not do a lot of birds, but do do peewee football, Manual Focus is teh way to go, but it takes TONS of practice before I could even make half way decently sharp pictures.

With my camera/lens, I have tons of pics just like that, perfectly focussed grass in front of the subject, perfect focus fence behind the subject, perfect focus on the player not carrying the ball. While it being a PITB, manual focus does pay off after the initial frustration.

FWIW,

XO,

[Higgmeister]

I have to agree with XO. It looks like the focus is on, just not on the right subject. Do you center focus or matrix focus. The problem with center focus is almost always you have to focus and recompose which has it's own problems. I can't tell you how many throw away shots I have due to the auto focus. I need to try the 20D's other focus settings to see if it's smart enough to focus on what I want.
I've tried BIF shots and it didn't take long before I was discouraged and don't even try anymore.
I'm beginning to use manual for much of my shooting. The hardest part is remembering which way to turn the barrel when the subject moves. I always seem to turn it the wrong way (camera dyslexia:scratch). Eventually it will become second nature, but until then, lots of OOF pictures.
Have you tried the DOF focus where the 20D will try and set the settings so everything (subject matter) is in focus. I haven't tried it yet.

I'm in a quandary. I used to be much more accomplished with my old film SLR than I am with the 20D. My first inclination is to shoot like I did with my SLR, but there are so many more options with the Digital. Or, so I try and learn a new technique and hope it finally makes it up to par? I keep bouncing back and forth between the two so I'm not very consistent with this camera yet.

Sorry for going on, but I do sympathize. I have excellent eyesight (20/10) and still have problems using manual focus, but I prefer manual.

I don't see an easy answer here. I do know that you get lots of great shots of birds, but maybe a review of your methodology for BIF shots might be in order. My methodology is quite simple, I just don't shoot them, but I don't think that's an option here:D.

Wish I could have been more helpful, just know that you aren't the only one with this problem,
Chris

[Rohirrim]

Have you tried using the AI Servo focus mode? I'm sure that with a ton of practice it is probably is better to shoot with manual focus. But until you develop that skill you might try using this mode on the Camera.

Regards,

[ginger_55]

I would be tempted to quit, too. For awhile I did. There were babies, they were stationary, mostly. ETc. One way to get a focus is to focus on the bird and shoot as the bird takes off.

Well, that worked during this birthing season. I figured I would take up the Real BIFs after the babies.

Now, I am getting very discouraged.

One, I never shot birds before, so I am not comparing film with digital. I also did not shoot sports, it was just different.

I can't focus that fast manually. I really just can't. If I could I would have the 2Xs on, too, all the time. I took it off so the AF would kick in.

I think I had it on the matrix, well, I know I did. Then I put it on the center point. I got good focus.

Then, when problems came in as I was trying for more Birds in Flight, I have had it on both. I tried to focus on a stationary seagull, against the sky, today. I had to focus on the truck. It is now on matrix. It could see the big thing, but not the bird, who was just sitting there panting in the heat.

I have had it on the one point thing, if it picks up the bird, it is great, but if it can't find the bird, well, I can't see a thing myself it is so blurred, and if the lens doesn't see it, it never does focus. Mostly I have had it on the one pt thing for the last few months. I can recompose, for the most part.

(I was focused on the bird that is in focus when those came by, or flew up, I don't remember, but I do know that I followed them with the lens a long way and it would not pick up the birds. I could see them as a beautiful blur, so it was not like shooting against the sky.)

So that is trying both. Canon owners, I have to choose one. Which one do you all use for birds in flight?????
Calling all canon owners who shoot birds. If I choose one then I will just have to live with it and practice, but I want to choose the one with the most chance of succeeding. I would have asked Harry, he has Nikon stuff.

I knew I would forget a question, and that was an important one. Matrix, vs point. I can't do it manually, just can't.
just got home.

ginger

[Higgmeister]

You shouldn't quite. You seem to really enjoy shooting birds and other wildlife. For me, it was easy to quite because my preference isn't wildlife, people and to a lesser extent, landscapes (doesn't leave much does it). Steve (Rohirrim) has a good idea to try. I've tried it and find it easier to manually focus, but that's me.

This may be relevant or not, but I find myself composing a shot, half press the shutter button, then recompose because of a distraction. When I do that, I forget that the focus doesn't change and need to get a refocus (when on auto) again by letting up and repressing the shutter button. I mention this only because:


(I was focused on the bird that is in focus when those came by, or flew up, I don't remember, but I do know that I followed them with the lens a long way and it would not pick up the birds. I could see them as a beautiful blur, so it was not like shooting against the sky.)

ginger
Hope you find something that works for you,
Chris

[ginger_55]

I always refocus, too often, I think.

My question, right now, before trying some stuff is, "what setting do you put the AF on for birds? One pt or matrix?"

ginger

(Canon people, please)

[Steve Cavigliano]

I always refocus, too often, I think.

My question, right now, before trying some stuff is, "what setting do you put the AF on for birds? One pt or matrix?"

ginger

(Canon people, please)Ginger,
I usually use center point for birds on the ground or in trees. The only time I use multi-point is when I'm specifically shooting birds in the sky with no background other than clouds. If I am alternating between birds on the ground and snapping off in-flight shots, I keep it on center point. I also use One Shot for birds at rest and AI-Servo for moving, or in-flight birds.

My technique is to analyze the light reflecting off the bird first and set my aperture and EV comp as required. Then I figure out the best angle/perspective to shoot them from (if moving around is possible). Lastly when shooting at long focal lengths, or when shooting BIFs, I make sure the ISO and aperture are set to give me speeds of 1/1000 or higher. This can be tricky with large birds that are close, or ones you are shooting from the side, because a wide aperture can cause DOF problems (blurry wings :dunno ). This may sound like it takes a long time to do, but with practice, you'll know exactly what settings to dial in and it will only take you a few seconds to set up, or re-set up. If you are concentrating on, say, birds in flight, you may not have to do much changing, if any at all, during a shoot. Now if you are alternating between shooting egrets and dark BIFs during the same shoot, you will most likely have to keep switching your EV comp. Negative EV comp for the white birds and positive EV comp for the dark ones.

I use a big heavy lens and it took me about 1000 shots to get fairly consistant with holding it steady enough to get most of my shots in focus. Use the left elbow tucked into your tummy method, while holding your left hand directly under the midpoint of your lens. Practice shallow breathing and keep your feet about shoulder width apart. If you can see your focus point bouncing all over your subject, in the view finder, your shot will probably be oof. Work on keeping that point on target with as little movement as possible. Also, I find that the area right above the center point is the most sensitive. So if this area is steady on your subject, and you're using a high enough speed, your shots will usually be sharp. Once you start getting a high "in focus" percentage with relatively stationary subjects, practice the same holding/breathing techniques while panning with BIFs. Keep your feet planted and move slowly at the waist. FWIW, I found that learning to pan at the same speeds as flying birds was the toughest part of birding. Panning too fast, or too slow will blur the subject :rolleyes

Here's one other biggie. Even though Dslrs use phase detection AF, the AF still relies heavily on contrast detection. So even if you are using center point, if there are higher contrast areas close to it, the AF may well pick one of these areas instead of your intended subject. A white bird against dark tree limbs or grass is a good example. Looking through the VF you should be able to see if this is happening. Again, remember my point about the area right above the center focus point being even more sensitive than the center point box itself. I find in tough situations (scenes with lots of contrast near my subject), I have to move the point around and re-focus. Sometimes multiple times.

Good luck Ginger and please feel free to PM me anytime :D Your choice of subjects, exposure and composition have all come a long way, IMO. If we can help you get consistently sharper focus, I think that you are going to be even happier with your shots :clap

Steve