Getting them online - Event Workflow

[beetle8]

This was started to keep from hijacking another thread.

I have one person on a laptop that culls and sorts photos as cards are either delivered to her or picked up by her.

She then starts the uploads to premade galleries on SM right away.

I don't do any post before uploading, I asses images after an order is made and do minor PP on small images, and more egressive editing on larger prints.

[dbveto]

I do alot of football so i will add my work flow which is at most times twenty four hour turn around.
I shoot in raw
after a game I get home (around 11:30-12 PM) and I fire up my laptop open Light Room then I import to a game folder such as "8-20-09 Rosco Rush" convert to dng and rename them to "8-20-09 Rosco Rush##"

After the import I first go through and get rid of the junk , blurry, ref in the way, too dark, shots of the ground etc..

After that I go through again and mark the best of then and filter out the rest then I do my processing (exposure, WB, color, sharpen, noise ) then I export these to send to the Media guy.

I then do my post processing on the rest and upload all of the pictures to SM.

Most times this is a twenty four hour period but there has been a few times when I did it in about 5 hours:huh:huh

[South Shore Snapshots]

I shoot hockey and post immediately after the game. Here's the simple plan.

Shoot in .jpg

download to iMac

junk the junkers

send keepers to desktop folder

batch process in Bibble Lite

upload to SMUGMUG gallery

post links on Facebook, hockey forums, etc.

Last night's action has already garnered 3000+ hits.

Works for me, though as you already know, sales are only ever here and there.

Rob

[beetle8]

This was started to keep from hijacking another thread.

I have one person on a laptop that culls and sorts photos as cards are either delivered to her or picked up by her.

She then starts the uploads to premade galleries on SM right away.

I don't do any post before uploading, I asses images after an order is made and do minor PP on small images, and more egressive editing on larger prints.

The above is for gymnastics,
I shoot medium fine jpeg on a D300
At venues with Wi-Fi the images are up before the customers get home. I have got sales from the previous session while I am shooting the next. if the images are not up right away I am losing sales. I have watched photo views of over 3000 per hour after larger events, and I'd say 80% of my sales come in the first week.

BMX Racing I shoot in RAW Process in LR and Upload asap usualy less than 24hrs then it's off to FB and the forums to let everyone know they are ready.

[Rocketman766]

I'll jump in here...this is how I do my cheerleading events....

I shoot Raw on CF, JPEG (Large)on SDHC.
Every 5 or 6 teams hand off the SD card, images are loaded on to the server for everyone to view onsite.
As soon as I get home, I load the jpegs into LR2, ditch the bad ones, then upload to SM.
I have my galleries set to 5 days delay to allow me to PP the ordered photos.

I have a pretty good amount of "after event" orders.

[SamirD]

Set up the camera right. Some guys do it so well they can shoot jpeg. I don't trust myself THAT much, but most of my workflow is just cropping, converting, and uploading.

This is for sports. Portraits are a different story!I've got about the same workflow.

Wow, such a great thread! How many of you are solo in the process? How many of you have assistants or help?

Here's my process:
I cover anywhere from 1 to 5 events in a given weekend. Each event will have at least 150 images. Most will have over 200-300. Some will number near 1000. I shoot everything in the highest quality jpeg among 4 different cameras depending on which is the best tool for the job.

At the end of each event, I go back to home base if possible to start uploads. If not, I get back to home base at the end of the day/night. Home base has three 8m/768k cable modems.

I copy all images off the cards to one drive of the the archive drives. Once the images have been verified as being properly copied and compared, the cameras and cards are put away to later refresh, clear, clean, and recharge.

The images from the archive drive are uploaded into galleries by day. If all the events were in one day, one gallery. It takes several hours (up to 15hrs) for this upload process. I will typically sleep at night while this takes place. Once the gallery is completely uploaded, I verify that the correct number of images are in the gallery. If not, I have to figure out what happened and re-upload anything missed.

Once the upload is verified complete, I move all the images to separate event galleries. Once each event gallery has all the images from each event, I process one gallery at a time. Processing entails rotating and hiding images. Once this is complete, each gallery is used for a writeup posted on the main web site. Once all the writeups are complete, the main web site homepage is updated, and the writeup and gallery links are promoted.

During the promotion process, the entire batch is re-uploaded into an archive gallery for the day. This is identical to the first gallery uploaded, but is there for archival purposes only. The archive drives are also synced so that all of them have all the images.

I can usually get stuff online within 72hrs, but I want it faster like you guys do it! Any pointers?

[timk519]

At the end of each event, I go back to home base if possible to start uploads. If not, I get back to home base at the end of the day/night. Home base has three 8m/768k cable modems.

....

The images from the archive drive are uploaded into galleries by day. If all the events were in one day, one gallery. It takes several hours (up to 15hrs) for this upload process. What size images are you taking? With the number of cablemodems you have, 15 hrs for an upload sounds long.

During the promotion process, the entire batch is re-uploaded into an archive gallery for the day. This is identical to the first gallery uploaded, but is there for archival purposes only. The archive drives are also synced so that all of them have all the images. It sounds like you're uploading the same material 3 times - once for the day gallery, once for each event, and again for your 'archive' gallery.

Is this true?

If so, I'd suggest uploading lower-res pics the first time to get it out of the way faster, do your PP, upload the event galleries, then use "SM copy" to copy all the images from the event galleries to the day gallery.

I'd also suggest LR to organize and process your stuff - it's a great tool!

[SamirD]

What size images are you taking? With the number of cablemodems you have, 15 hrs for an upload sounds long.My cameras are 5 and 8 megapixels so the image sizes are from 2-4mb each. When I have have 1000 photos at say 4mbytes, that's 4000mbytes to upload. My cable modems upload at 768 kilobits or 96kbytes (8bits/byte). 1000kbytes in a mbyte so that's 4000000kbytes to upload at 96kbytes per second, or 41,667 seconds, roughly 12 hours. But I have three cable modems so divide 12 by 3 and it's about 4 hours for 4GB (4000mb). On days I shoot 8GB, so it's 8hrs straight of blinking lights.

That's the surprising thing to me on how fast you guys upload. For me, that's the most time consuming part in the workflow. It's why I skip any type of post. The time I save in uploading by culling/processing prior to uploading is better spent sleeping.
It sounds like you're uploading the same material 3 times - once for the day gallery, once for each event, and again for your 'archive' gallery.
Is this true?Actually only twice. The first gallery is completely split up into event galleries. It's empty when I'm done. Then I upload all my images for each day into an archive section. but this is usually after everything is published and done.
If so, I'd suggest uploading lower-res pics the first time to get it out of the way faster, do your PP, upload the event galleries, then use "SM copy" to copy all the images from the event galleries to the day gallery.I could do this, but the time that I spend doing this cuts into sleep time. I can upload twice in my sleep, literally.
I'd also suggest LR to organize and process your stuff - it's a great tool!I've never used lightroom, but have heard good things about it. Since PP isn't a part of my workflow, I've never looked into any tools like that.

[dbveto]

I use LR for my complete work flow including uploading. When I shoot for the football team it is under tough lighting so that is why I shoot in Raw.
and I can average 250 to 300 shots and after culling. At this time I do it all my self. I have to have approx 24 shots totally done and send the same night for different publishing needs by the team.
I typically upload around 150-200 shots when all is done.

[SamirD]

I use LR for my complete work flow including uploading. When I shoot for the football team it is under tough lighting so that is why I shoot in Raw.
and I can average 250 to 300 shots and after culling. At this time I do it all my self. I have to have approx 24 shots totally done and send the same night for different publishing needs by the team.
I typically upload around 150-200 shots when all is done.Great feedback! How much time would you say you spend on PP before uploading? What type of upload connection do you have and what are your final file sizes?

[dbveto]

Great feedback! How much time would you say you spend on PP before uploading? What type of upload connection do you have and what are your final file sizes?

The image size I shoot mostly is 14.6 MP and when I upload they are 6.5 to 7 mb the uploading will take about 4-6 hours for the entire album.
As far as my PP if I shoot at our home field I will spend about 3-4 hours for pp some of the other fields do not have the same lighting so I can spent more time PP of these. The main reason is if I have consistent lighting I can do more batch processing, where I adjust one shot then copy the settings to a group of shots which can save time.
I use Jeffrey’s “Export to SmugMug” Lightroom Plugin to create the album on SM and upload the picture.

[SamirD]

The image size I shoot mostly is 14.6 MP and when I upload they are 6.5 to 7 mb the uploading will take about 4-6 hours for the entire album.
As far as my PP if I shoot at our home field I will spend about 3-4 hours for pp some of the other fields do not have the same lighting so I can spent more time PP of these. The main reason is if I have consistent lighting I can do more batch processing, where I adjust one shot then copy the settings to a group of shots which can save time.
I use Jeffrey’s “Export to SmugMug” Lightroom Plugin to create the album on SM and upload the picture.I'm just thinking out loud, so 300 images at 7mb each yields about 2100mb or 2.1gb. 6-7 hours sounds about right on most Internet connections. Combine that with the 3-4hrs of pp, since you have to upload only after pp, and you've got around 9-11hrs of work in each album. Thats around 3 hrs for 100 published images. It takes my albums about 8hrs to upload even if it finishes earlier since I'm sleeping. But because I'm sleeping, I don't count that time. Then it takes about an hour for me to cull through 100 photos on SM and publish. So if I used a pp workflow like this, my publishing times would increase 3x, but so would quality. Interesting to know. :thumb

[MJRPHOTO]

I've got about the same workflow.

I can usually get stuff online within 72hrs, but I want it faster like you guys do it! Any pointers?
Do not sleep.

[dbveto]

I'm just thinking out loud, so 300 images at 7mb each yields about 2100mb or 2.1gb. 6-7 hours sounds about right on most Internet connections. Combine that with the 3-4hrs of pp, since you have to upload only after pp, and you've got around 9-11hrs of work in each album. Thats around 3 hrs for 100 published images. It takes my albums about 8hrs to upload even if it finishes earlier since I'm sleeping. But because I'm sleeping, I don't count that time. Then it takes about an hour for me to cull through 100 photos on SM and publish. So if I used a pp workflow like this, my publishing times would increase 3x, but so would quality. Interesting to know. :thumb
I only count the time on PP as once I start the upload I am done other that about 10 min on album tweaks after the upload.

[tjk60]

An Example:

I shoot hockey in dim barns with bad lights.

I'll shoot up to 650 pics in a real exciting game. I shoot jpg Fine on my D700. I get home, transfer to PC, whack all the bad ones and repeats. I get down to around 150 for online. I use Lightroom to post. I crop every pic and use whatever adjustments I need. I use CS3 actions to batch sharpen.

I upload full res, already PP images to smugmug. Total time is around 1,5 hours. I use Starexplorer to upload.

[jonh68]

An Example:

I shoot hockey in dim barns with bad lights.

I'll shoot up to 650 pics in a real exciting game. I shoot jpg Fine on my D700. I get home, transfer to PC, whack all the bad ones and repeats. I get down to around 150 for online. I use Lightroom to post. I crop every pic and use whatever adjustments I need. I use CS3 actions to batch sharpen.

I upload full res, already PP images to smugmug. Total time is around 1,5 hours. I use Starexplorer to upload.

That is close to what I do. I shoot L jpg Normal. I think photogs who shoot RAW for sports events are killing themselves unless this is for major publication.

I use Microsoft Expression to sort out the strongest 6-14 pictures for the newspaper and then leftovers for my galleries. Once tagged, I then download the pics to the appropriate files.

Since I am on deadline, the newspaper gets priority so I work on those using DXO for cropping, curves, WB adjustments etc. and process in batch.

I open the files in Photomechanic and caption, and do any touch up editing using PSE. FTP the pics to the server.

After the upload to the paper, I select the leftovers using DXO and edit those. My automatic settings are set at 10 inches widest side at 300 dpi saved at 90%. This produces a file size in the 500kb to 1.5 mb file size. Easy for uploading.

I create a gallery on smugmug and upload full size images so I don't have to fool with the pics anymore. I am not going to put unedited pictures on my gallery.

Total time is 1-3 hours depending on how many pics I took and then culled out.

[thezoomer]

I shoot hockey, 6-10 games in a day, usually 2 games per CF card, as I am usually shooting 2 games at the same time. Approx. 150-170pix per game. I'll get home and start sorting through using generic Nikon View software. As I complete each game I then start using my noise software. I'll have 3 computers going at the same time. As they finish getting rid of noise I then start uploading to SM. Again, 3 computers going at the same time. Once finished uploading to SM, process starts again until all games are complete and all are uploaded.

Total time is approx. 12 hours.

[HoofClix]

Shooting horse shows, mostly horse trials on the eventing side, over a two day show I can have including me as few as three photographers in my staff, and as many as seven at some larger shows. I also have a card assistant who constantly makes the rounds to pick up cards and get them downloaded and organized in the trailer.

Each staff has a "number flip board" which they use to show the rider's number, and after each rider goes by, they take a closeup picture of the flip board.. The number is large enough in a small thumbnail that it can be read without enlarging it. We all shoot in the largest format jpg that the camera has. I tell each of them where to be, and I also will call them frequently to tell them if I want them to adjust their wb.

Back in the trailer, my card assistant downloads each card, and using either Breeze Browser or Nikon View NX, she slides each rider's photos into a premade folder that is their number (rider 1 has folder 001 and so on.) After the cards are sorted, she then kicks in a little template that I have designed that makes galleries for an intranet that I have in my trailer. Basically, the rider can go into my trailer, sit at one of as many as seven monitors, click on their rider number and see their pictures. The monitors are in kiosk mode, so no one can steal the images.

After the show I first back up the whole show to a portable hard drive. I then hook that drive up to another computer, then batch process the whole show using the old Nikon Capture Editor 4. It has a setting that is basically just an auto-contrast, not an auto-levels. (I don't do levels as it pulls in too much blue.). I overwrite-save each image at 80%. At this point I have batch corrected images on a portable and the originals on my server.

Now is the time that I use Star Explorer (thanks Nikolai!) to create a new subcategory, which is a particular horse show, and then within that subcategory I batch create as many as 500 galleries to my Smugmug. Galleries are created within a few minutes to a half hour, all to my own custom settings which include my watermark, disabled external links, no sharing, and a size limit, etc...

Then using Star Explorer I next take the images for each rider, set them in their cue, press the green button. I then hope I go to bed!

I can have as many as 10,000 images and as few as 600, but usually about 4,000 on a weekend. My cable connection can push as many as 150 per hour, so it can take several days, but it uploads whether I'm sleeping or awake, there or not there, whether I'm naughty or nice! If someone is at the end of the cue and wants to look, I just pause the cue and pull theirs up to the front.

:barb

[SamirD]

Do not sleep.:rofl Not an option. I'm usually so pooped I'm having to start the upload through double vision. Any other suggestions?

[SamirD]

I only count the time on PP as once I start the upload I am done other that about 10 min on album tweaks after the upload.And that's where you've got some time savings for sure--less images to upload, less work within SM.

But I'm looking at total time from shoot to published, and unfortunately upload time is a pretty big factor in that.

[SamirD]

An Example:

I shoot hockey in dim barns with bad lights.

I'll shoot up to 650 pics in a real exciting game. I shoot jpg Fine on my D700. I get home, transfer to PC, whack all the bad ones and repeats. I get down to around 150 for online. I use Lightroom to post. I crop every pic and use whatever adjustments I need. I use CS3 actions to batch sharpen.

I upload full res, already PP images to smugmug. Total time is around 1,5 hours. I use Starexplorer to upload.Thank you for the post! I think your workflow is similar to most, and quick! Does the 1.5hrs include upload time? Do you have to do any album tweaking once it is in SM?

[SamirD]

That is close to what I do. I shoot L jpg Normal. I think photogs who shoot RAW for sports events are killing themselves unless this is for major publication.

I use Microsoft Expression to sort out the strongest 6-14 pictures for the newspaper and then leftovers for my galleries. Once tagged, I then download the pics to the appropriate files.

Since I am on deadline, the newspaper gets priority so I work on those using DXO for cropping, curves, WB adjustments etc. and process in batch.

I open the files in Photomechanic and caption, and do any touch up editing using PSE. FTP the pics to the server.

After the upload to the paper, I select the leftovers using DXO and edit those. My automatic settings are set at 10 inches widest side at 300 dpi saved at 90%. This produces a file size in the 500kb to 1.5 mb file size. Easy for uploading.

I create a gallery on smugmug and upload full size images so I don't have to fool with the pics anymore. I am not going to put unedited pictures on my gallery.

Total time is 1-3 hours depending on how many pics I took and then culled out.Great feedback! :clap How many images do you end up culling and publishing? How many do you usually shoot? What's the percentage of keepers? With small images sizes like 1.5mb, your upload times won't be too bad unless you have a lot of images like I usually do.

[tjk60]

Thank you for the post! I think your workflow is similar to most, and quick! Does the 1.5hrs include upload time? Do you have to do any album tweaking once it is in SM?

It does not includes upload, but I'm in the range of 150-200 pics to upload. I crank it when I'm done with the sharpening, and with StarExplorer and paying my broadband provider extra to get 6MB upload, it goes pretty fast....

[SamirD]

I shoot hockey, 6-10 games in a day, usually 2 games per CF card, as I am usually shooting 2 games at the same time. Approx. 150-170pix per game. I'll get home and start sorting through using generic Nikon View software. As I complete each game I then start using my noise software. I'll have 3 computers going at the same time. As they finish getting rid of noise I then start uploading to SM. Again, 3 computers going at the same time. Once finished uploading to SM, process starts again until all games are complete and all are uploaded.

Total time is approx. 12 hours.This sounds a bit like what I used to do before SM--3 computers going simultaneously to resize images, build galleries, and copy them to the server. Now I just have multiple upload sessions, which is less work for me, but not quicker than having a local server. But a local server couldn't do half of SM can do.

How many images do you end up publishing? How long does your upload process take? Do you sleep some time in between the process? How long is your day when you're finished?

[SamirD]

Shooting horse shows, mostly horse trials on the eventing side, over a two day show I can have including me as few as three photographers in my staff, and as many as seven at some larger shows. I also have a card assistant who constantly makes the rounds to pick up cards and get them downloaded and organized in the trailer.

Each staff has a "number flip board" which they use to show the rider's number, and after each rider goes by, they take a closeup picture of the flip board.. The number is large enough in a small thumbnail that it can be read without enlarging it. We all shoot in the largest format jpg that the camera has. I tell each of them where to be, and I also will call them frequently to tell them if I want them to adjust their wb.

Back in the trailer, my card assistant downloads each card, and using either Breeze Browser or Nikon View NX, she slides each rider's photos into a premade folder that is their number (rider 1 has folder 001 and so on.) After the cards are sorted, she then kicks in a little template that I have designed that makes galleries for an intranet that I have in my trailer. Basically, the rider can go into my trailer, sit at one of as many as seven monitors, click on their rider number and see their pictures. The monitors are in kiosk mode, so no one can steal the images.

After the show I first back up the whole show to a portable hard drive. I then hook that drive up to another computer, then batch process the whole show using the old Nikon Capture Editor 4. It has a setting that is basically just an auto-contrast, not an auto-levels. (I don't do levels as it pulls in too much blue.). I overwrite-save each image at 80%. At this point I have batch corrected images on a portable and the originals on my server.

Now is the time that I use Star Explorer (thanks Nikolai!) to create a new subcategory, which is a particular horse show, and then within that subcategory I batch create as many as 500 galleries to my Smugmug. Galleries are created within a few minutes to a half hour, all to my own custom settings which include my watermark, disabled external links, no sharing, and a size limit, etc...

Then using Star Explorer I next take the images for each rider, set them in their cue, press the green button. I then hope I go to bed!

I can have as many as 10,000 images and as few as 600, but usually about 4,000 on a weekend. My cable connection can push as many as 150 per hour, so it can take several days, but it uploads whether I'm sleeping or awake, there or not there, whether I'm naughty or nice! If someone is at the end of the cue and wants to look, I just pause the cue and pull theirs up to the front.

:barbWow, what a process! How long is a normal day once you get a chance to sleep? Have you thought about using multiple computers and cable modems to upload faster? Do you think it would improve sales?

[SamirD]

It does not includes upload, but I'm in the range of 150-200 pics to upload. I crank it when I'm done with the sharpening, and with StarExplorer and paying my broadband provider extra to get 6MB upload, it goes pretty fast....Ahhh...6mb upload. I wish I had that. Combining three top-end cable modems here barely yields me 2.1mb. :cry They're supposed to upgrade to 20 or 12/2mb in the first quarter of 2010. That would help my upload issues.

[jonh68]

Great feedback! :clap How many images do you end up culling and publishing? How many do you usually shoot? What's the percentage of keepers? With small images sizes like 1.5mb, your upload times won't be too bad unless you have a lot of images like I usually do.

Usually if I shoot a football game I will have about 250-400 shots. Since I am on deadline, I usually leave at halftime. Of those, I select the 8-14 strongest for the paper, and maybe 20-24 if it is a big game with kids that have college potential for file art.

Of the remaining pics, it can be up to 20-70 that I keep for gallery purposes. If I were shooting this as an event and not for the paper I would probably select more. My galleries are a little different than someone who shoots events because my purpose is a bit different since I am already getting paid by the paper. May galleries are put up so I could get away from parents asking me to email extra pics to them.

[HoofClix]

Wow, what a process! How long is a normal day once you get a chance to sleep? Have you thought about using multiple computers and cable modems to upload faster? Do you think it would improve sales?
Well more than half of my revenue comes from people who just fill out an order form at the show, before I even get home to upload images. That's why it's so important to have an intranet view system on site. Except for weekly and monthly horse magazines, pretty much all of my customers are on site with me all weekend. I do have another horse-related business during the week, and when I go to that office I have my computer to upload on another internet portal if there is someone just pining to see their pictures.. Those who buy at a show get theirs uploaded last, of course..

At a show, shooting starts at 7:30 or 8am, and can run to 10 at night or 4 PM depending on the type of show and time of year. After the show it really isn't all that stressful. I just need to deliver before leaving for another show!

[SamirD]

Usually if I shoot a football game I will have about 250-400 shots. Since I am on deadline, I usually leave at halftime. Of those, I select the 8-14 strongest for the paper, and maybe 20-24 if it is a big game with kids that have college potential for file art.

Of the remaining pics, it can be up to 20-70 that I keep for gallery purposes. If I were shooting this as an event and not for the paper I would probably select more. My galleries are a little different than someone who shoots events because my purpose is a bit different since I am already getting paid by the paper. May galleries are put up so I could get away from parents asking me to email extra pics to them.Thank you for the feedback! :thumb If I got paid for the event regardless, I'd probably shoot a lot less than I do. Can the parents buy prints? Does the paper plug your web site?

[SamirD]

Well more than half of my revenue comes from people who just fill out an order form at the show, before I even get home to upload images. That's why it's so important to have an intranet view system on site. Except for weekly and monthly horse magazines, pretty much all of my customers are on site with me all weekend. I do have another horse-related business during the week, and when I go to that office I have my computer to upload on another internet portal if there is someone just pining to see their pictures.. Those who buy at a show get theirs uploaded last, of course..

At a show, shooting starts at 7:30 or 8am, and can run to 10 at night or 4 PM depending on the type of show and time of year. After the show it really isn't all that stressful. I just need to deliver before leaving for another show!Ahhh, with the kiosks, uploading becomes less of a priority. What system do you use for the Intranet? And what's your paperwork workflow for orders? That's the part that would be difficult for me.

[FL00DY]

It's rather timely that I found this thread. Keeping in mind that I'm not even close to making money from photos, I love taking the photos, but between leaving the venue and the photos reach SM; it feels like work. I'm using lightroom and normally shoot motorsport at the race track. A regular day nets me 1500 shots on average, most days I keep half of them. It makes me think twice about going out, cause I know I've still got maybe 2 other days not processed. I hope though that the more often I go out, the better keep:junk ratio. I use lightroom and find it rather slow.

I'll have a read and see if there is a way I can make it easier.

[timk519]

It's rather timely that I found this thread. Keeping in mind that I'm not even close to making money from photos, I love taking the photos, but between leaving the venue and the photos reach SM; it feels like work. I'm using lightroom and normally shoot motorsport at the race track. A regular day nets me 1500 shots on average, most days I keep half of them. It makes me think twice about going out, cause I know I've still got maybe 2 other days not processed. I hope though that the more often I go out, the better keep:junk ratio. I use lightroom and find it rather slow.

I'll have a read and see if there is a way I can make it easier.
First, you need to learn to choose your shots better, and be more relentless in what you keep for later processing.

Second, LR is only as fast as it's operator - you just have to learn how to get your wetware properly trained.

[SamirD]

...I love taking the photos, but between leaving the venue and the photos reach SM; it feels like work.All I can say is, well, it is work. :rofl
I'm using lightroom and normally shoot motorsport at the race track. A regular day nets me 1500 shots on average, most days I keep half of them. It makes me think twice about going out, cause I know I've still got maybe 2 other days not processed. I hope though that the more often I go out, the better keep:junk ratio. I use lightroom and find it rather slow.A 50% keep ratio isn't bad for moving objects. One thing to do is ask yourself these questions in post: Am I salvaging an image that could have been saved by better camera work?
Is this worthy of someone buying?
Is enhancing the image going to get the sale?If the answers to these questions are "no", then skip the image. No one will notice it, and over time, you won't either. And be ready for the answer to the questions to be "yes" for a particular image. Then you know the time you spend is worthwhile.

P.S. I'd love to see your work. I shoot motorsports as well. :thumb

[FL00DY]

First, you need to learn to choose your shots better, and be more relentless in what you keep for later processing.

Second, LR is only as fast as it's operator - you just have to learn how to get your wetware properly trained.

Sometimes I think 'I have enough of this car' but then I think well what if something happens, he has a lose, it's close between two drivers and I miss it ??? Actually it's happened maybe once or twice where I have missed something. I try to delete the junk during the day, sometimes the amount of cars coming through are constant and I don't get around to it till Lightroom.

I've gone through Lightroom and learnt a few keyboard shortcuts, but I'm talking about the touchyness of and time taken to small tasks, such as crop or rotate or change between Libary. I doubt it is my PC, but it probably does need a Windows reinstall. Adobe like to make Lightroom look pretty instead of functional.

[timk519]

If LR isn't as responsive as you like, google for some LR performance tips.

Have you optimized the catalogue recently?

[jonh68]

Sometimes I think 'I have enough of this car' but then I think well what if something happens, he has a lose, it's close between two drivers and I miss it ??? Actually it's happened maybe once or twice where I have missed something. I try to delete the junk during the day, sometimes the amount of cars coming through are constant and I don't get around to it till Lightroom.

I've gone through Lightroom and learnt a few keyboard shortcuts, but I'm talking about the touchyness of and time taken to small tasks, such as crop or rotate or change between Libary. I doubt it is my PC, but it probably does need a Windows reinstall. Adobe like to make Lightroom look pretty instead of functional.

You DO NOT want to delete pictures at an event. Looking at the LCD of a camera does not compare to seeing final shot on a screen. You do not knwo what small details you have.

I was out shooting shrimpboats for feature art for the newspaper. I didn't see anything special in the pics while I was taking them. I got back to the office and looked at the pics on the monitor. In one pic, I saw a dolphin leading the boat in port. I titled the pic "escort home", it made the front page, and several people came by the newspapers office to buy prints of the pic. DO NOT delete pics off the card while in camera.

DO become more selective in what you save and how you shoot. You can only have so much before they look the same. You do not have to document every turn and every lap unless someone is paying for you to do that. After you get your base pics, start to experiment with panning etc to make your photos more interesting. Also, once you get your standard shots, then be on the watch for special moments, wrecks etc. In the long run, it is better to be prepared to get the shots instead of taking a picture of everything and hope you get it like a surveillance camera would.

[SamirD]

Sometimes I think 'I have enough of this car' but then I think well what if something happens, he has a lose, it's close between two drivers and I miss it ??? Actually it's happened maybe once or twice where I have missed something. I try to delete the junk during the day, sometimes the amount of cars coming through are constant and I don't get around to it till Lightroom.In racing, this is always an issue. But that's when a pre-defined goal helps. My goal is typically a great still shot and panning shot of each car. Now, I usually get to a point where I feel I've got my panning shot (the harder of the two). But I usually continue shooting, only if I feel I can get something better. Other than that, I watch for the 'once-in-a-lifetime' shots.

I never try to cull in the field. In fact, I almost don't even try to review in the field. You can miss great shots that way, or worse, accidentally delete a great shot you already had! Memory cards are cheap, so don't risk losing the perfect shot over space issues. I've always found reviewing in post is always quicker and easier.
I've gone through Lightroom and learnt a few keyboard shortcuts, but I'm talking about the touchyness of and time taken to small tasks, such as crop or rotate or change between Libary. I doubt it is my PC, but it probably does need a Windows reinstall. Adobe like to make Lightroom look pretty instead of functional.You have to ask yourself is lightroom the right tool for the job? Rotations are done automatically in SM upon upload if your camera has an orientation bit (most do), and you can simply crop a thumbnail (I believe), or your customer can choose their own crop when they buy.

A streamlined workflow is doing just what needs to be done as efficiently as possible. This requires thinking out the full flow end-to-end and then having the right tools to make it happen.

[TangoJuliet]

I'm glad I found this thread and read through it. I'm by no means a full "Pro" shooter. Semi-Pro at best. Most of what I shoot are R/C Model Airplanes at organised Fly-Ins, or Full Scale Air Shows. Last May I attended an event called the "Joe Nall Giant Scale Fly-In" that is like Disneyland for R/C aviation enthusiasts (like me :D ). I was there five days and shot well over 1500 shots on four different CF cards. Unfortunately, I didn't have a laptop or access to a desktop until I returned home. Then I only had a full day before I had to return to my real job that keeps me away for a week at a time. Needless to say, I lost a lot of time in getting things PP and uploaded to my SM. I shoot mainly in RAW and use ACR to begin the PP before converting to JPG to make final adjustments and crop in PSE 7.

I'm planning to attend this year also, and for an entire week. Hopefully I've learned my workflow a little better over the last nine months and I'll have better organised galleries for this years event. Also this year, I'll have the week after the event off so I can work on them sooner. I'm still debating on a laptop, but even at the event I won't have internet access.

[SamirD]

I'm glad I found this thread and read through it. I'm by no means a full "Pro" shooter. Semi-Pro at best. Most of what I shoot are R/C Model Airplanes at organised Fly-Ins, or Full Scale Air Shows. Last May I attended an event called the "Joe Nall Giant Scale Fly-In" that is like Disneyland for R/C aviation enthusiasts (like me :D ). I was there five days and shot well over 1500 shots on four different CF cards. Unfortunately, I didn't have a laptop or access to a desktop until I returned home. Then I only had a full day before I had to return to my real job that keeps me away for a week at a time. Needless to say, I lost a lot of time in getting things PP and uploaded to my SM. I shoot mainly in RAW and use ACR to begin the PP before converting to JPG to make final adjustments and crop in PSE 7.

I'm planning to attend this year also, and for an entire week. Hopefully I've learned my workflow a little better over the last nine months and I'll have better organised galleries for this years event. Also this year, I'll have the week after the event off so I can work on them sooner. I'm still debating on a laptop, but even at the event I won't have internet access.Interesting. So what's the most time consuming process for you? The PP or the uploading? A laptop would help with the PP if that's the bottleneck. But if it's the upload, Internet access is the only way to solve that, but don't all hotels have Internet? :scratch Most even have business centers.

[timk519]

Interesting. So what's the most time consuming process for you? The PP or the uploading? I'd say the PP because if he's working with Elements, that would take a lot longer to process that many pictures compared to how long LR would take.

[FL00DY]

Thanks very much guys for the tips. This thread is proving to be a treasure of info.

@ jonh68 - I know pretty well off my camera what's VERY blurry and what's not. There isn't a lot to miss and it's one big plus with the D90. And it's really only racing that I delete stuff off the camera.

@SamirD - A lot of my work is deleting and cropping, with the occasional WB fix or colour change for white cars.

My Motorsport shots can be found here, http://floody82.smugmug.com/Motorsport. Like I said, I have maybe 2-4 days out that I haven't done yet. I might restore my Windows image over the weekend and see how quick I get lightroom :) Try and knock them off.

[jonh68]

@ jonh68 - I know pretty well off my camera what's VERY blurry and what's not. There isn't a lot to miss and it's one big plus with the D90. And it's really only racing that I delete stuff off the camera.



You missed the point, it isn't about focus or blurriness, it's about small details you miss when viewing on a LCD compared to seeing the full image blown up on a computer monitor. I have looked at images on the LCD that I thought didn't contain anything interesting or didn't look "sharp" but after seeing it on the full screen I saw it differently.

[TangoJuliet]

Interesting. So what's the most time consuming process for you? The PP or the uploading? A laptop would help with the PP if that's the bottleneck. But if it's the upload, Internet access is the only way to solve that, but don't all hotels have Internet? :scratch Most even have business centers.

Definitely the PP. Because I shoot mainly in RAW, I have to convert in ACR before importing to PSE. Yes, the hotels do have internet access, but I'll be camping on-site :D . The property owner has a house and aircraft hangar there, so there might be internet that I can steal a wireless signal from. I'll have to think long and hard about the laptop. My budget is limited and I'm already planning to purchase a new Canon 7D. I'll be renting a fast, long lens. That way I'll have my D350 for wider angle shots and the 7D for flying close-ups.

[SamirD]

Definitely the PP. Because I shoot mainly in RAW, I have to convert in ACR before importing to PSE. Yes, the hotels do have internet access, but I'll be camping on-site :D . The property owner has a house and aircraft hangar there, so there might be internet that I can steal a wireless signal from. I'll have to think long and hard about the laptop. My budget is limited and I'm already planning to purchase a new Canon 7D. I'll be renting a fast, long lens. That way I'll have my D350 for wider angle shots and the 7D for flying close-ups.Hmm...this is where some business decisions need to be made. As I read recently in Best Business Practices for Photographers--fast, good, or cheap--pick two. That's the conundrum you're facing. We all want to have all three, but it's generally not possible.

[mercphoto]

I think photogs who shoot RAW for sports events are killing themselves unless this is for major publication.
Not at all. A tool like Photo Mechanic makes previewing a bunch of RAW images lightening fast and allows you to rank, sort, cull, etc. Aperture and Lightroom make a RAW workflow identical to a JPG workflow as well. I see zero downside to working RAW anymore. Those days are gone.

I do track days for cars. I could have better sales if I had onsite previewing and ordering but I'm not willing to invest that far. Personal choice and priorities. My workflow is I shoot at the track in RAW, AWB, and I'm very deliberate about when I trip the shutter. Unload cards at home into an Aperture project, renaming and basic keywording and metadata upon import. Then I do a batch post-processing to the images, using presets that I have learned from experience will make the images look much better. I will hand-tweak later as needed. Next step is to go through each image. Toss the losers. Keyword with car make for easier searching. Final step is to export JPG's to upload to Exposure Manager, then FTP. I will often do this to a proof-only gallery so that as an order comes in I can fine-tune the post-processing, and therefore only do this for images that actually sell. This also means I can upload 900-pixel images rather than full-size, making uploads go much faster. My batch post-processing gets it close enough that the website looks good and encourages a sale.

[SamirD]

@SamirD - A lot of my work is deleting and cropping, with the occasional WB fix or colour change for white cars.

My Motorsport shots can be found here, http://floody82.smugmug.com/Motorsport. Like I said, I have maybe 2-4 days out that I haven't done yet. I might restore my Windows image over the weekend and see how quick I get lightroom :) Try and knock them off.Your shots remind me of mine. :) But that being said, the photojournalistic style doesn't really generate sales. Next time you're at a store with car magazines, look at the covers. Dissect them finding out how to create that shot on the cover. Feel what makes that shot worthy of the cover. This is what every car enthusiast wants for their car--a shot like that. If you can deliver this day-in day-out when at events, you'll see your sales and popularity skyrocket. :thumb

[mercphoto]

Your shots remind me of mine. :) But that being said, the photojournalistic style doesn't really generate sales. Next time you're at a store with car magazines, look at the covers. Dissect them finding out how to create that shot on the cover. Feel what makes that shot worthy of the cover. This is what every car enthusiast wants for their car--a shot like that. If you can deliver this day-in day-out when at events, you'll see your sales and popularity skyrocket. :thumb
He also needs to cull better. It did not take me long at all to find a lot of shots that need to hit the trash bin. This is one example. He needs to ask himself why this shot should be put up for sale in the first place. It will tarnish the reputation:

http://floody82.smugmug.com/Motorsport/BMW-Club-NSW-2009-Supersprint/BMW-Club-Rnd-2-Eastern-Creek/8494542_4wbrH#558989548_FrCLR

[SamirD]

Not at all. A tool like Photo Mechanic makes previewing a bunch of RAW images lightening fast and allows you to rank, sort, cull, etc. Aperture and Lightroom make a RAW workflow identical to a JPG workflow as well. I see zero downside to working RAW anymore. Those days are gone.

I do track days for cars. I could have better sales if I had onsite previewing and ordering but I'm not willing to invest that far. Personal choice and priorities. My workflow is I shoot at the track in RAW, AWB, and I'm very deliberate about when I trip the shutter. Unload cards at home into an Aperture project, renaming and basic keywording and metadata upon import. Then I do a batch post-processing to the images, using presets that I have learned from experience will make the images look much better. I will hand-tweak later as needed. Next step is to go through each image. Toss the losers. Keyword with car make for easier searching. Final step is to export JPG's to upload to Exposure Manager, then FTP. I will often do this to a proof-only gallery so that as an order comes in I can fine-tune the post-processing, and therefore only do this for images that actually sell. This also means I can upload 900-pixel images rather than full-size, making uploads go much faster. My batch post-processing gets it close enough that the website looks good and encourages a sale.Nice work! EM is looking better these days. I almost switched right before SM added video.

[mercphoto]

Thanks very much guys for the tips. ...

My Motorsport shots can be found here, http://floody82.smugmug.com/Motorsport. Like I said, I have maybe 2-4 days out that I haven't done yet. I might restore my Windows image over the weekend and see how quick I get lightroom :) Try and knock them off.
And you're selling your prints at cost??????

[HoofClix]

I see zero downside to working RAW anymore. Those days are gone.

I guess I see it exactly opposite, seeing very few upsides in shooting raw. For the large volume event photography that I do, shooting in raw would completely bog my system down in upload speed at the events as well as the storage space required. I find that correcting the occasional incorrect white balance can be done by opening the images up in Capture Raw and correcting there.

But true, there are so many ways to do all of this, and seemingly no end to the software applications to do it. I have yet to go out and spend the cash on LR.

[TangoJuliet]

Hmm...this is where some business decisions need to be made. As I read recently in Best Business Practices for Photographers--fast, good, or cheap--pick two. That's the conundrum you're facing. We all want to have all three, but it's generally not possible.

That's why for now, I've decided to buy the new body (8mp just don't cut it anymore really), and rent the glass for the time I'll need it. If I can make more Fly-Ins and Air Shows this year, and in turn make more sales, it'll justify buying the fast glass, but for now, I can't justify that. I really think the laptop will be my next major purchase, as it will be more versatile beyond just photography, but I've got a few months before I'll need it.

Out of curiousity, and I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but what's the consensus - PC Laptop or MacBook :dunno ? I have a PC Desktop at home.

[jonh68]

Not at all. A tool like Photo Mechanic makes previewing a bunch of RAW images lightening fast and allows you to rank, sort, cull, etc. Aperture and Lightroom make a RAW workflow identical to a JPG workflow as well. I see zero downside to working RAW anymore. Those days are gone.

I do track days for cars. I could have better sales if I had onsite previewing and ordering but I'm not willing to invest that far. Personal choice and priorities. My workflow is I shoot at the track in RAW, AWB, and I'm very deliberate about when I trip the shutter. Unload cards at home into an Aperture project, renaming and basic keywording and metadata upon import. Then I do a batch post-processing to the images, using presets that I have learned from experience will make the images look much better. I will hand-tweak later as needed. Next step is to go through each image. Toss the losers. Keyword with car make for easier searching. Final step is to export JPG's to upload to Exposure Manager, then FTP. I will often do this to a proof-only gallery so that as an order comes in I can fine-tune the post-processing, and therefore only do this for images that actually sell. This also means I can upload 900-pixel images rather than full-size, making uploads go much faster. My batch post-processing gets it close enough that the website looks good and encourages a sale.

When the image is more than likely going to be a 4x7 or 8x10 at the most, I stand behind my comment. If you like shooting RAW more power to you, but I have yet to experience a situation where RAW presented a major difference. I just don't see the advanatge of using bigger files when, for all practical purposes I cannot tell a difference.

[SamirD]

I guess I see it exactly opposite, seeing very few upsides in shooting raw. For the large volume event photography that I do, shooting in raw would completely bog my system down in upload speed at the events as well as the storage space required.I'm in the same boat. I rarely shoot raw. The file sizes bog down my piddly little cameras and that's doesn't work for some of the faster action events I cover.

With events, there's so much volume that if a shot isn't perfect, I can just hide it. No one will really miss it. I've only thrown away about 50 salvageable images over the years that would have yielded in a sale. When hired to shoot something, I'm very careful about shooting and will adjust things on the spot and just re-shoot until its right. At that point, time and the setup is on my side.

[SamirD]

That's why for now, I've decided to buy the new body (8mp just don't cut it anymore really), and rent the glass for the time I'll need it.

Out of curiousity, and I don't want to hi-jack this thread, but what's the consensus - PC Laptop or MacBook :dunno ? I have a PC Desktop at home.I like the idea of renting and have considered it myself. But I really can't justify any more investment in the next year or so. That being said I'll be shooting with almost 7 year old equipment before I can upgrade. :cry

PC/Mac? If you're PC at home, might want to just stick to that platform for interoperability. Cross-platform is not as bad as it used to be, but it's still got quirks.

[HoofClix]

Mind you, I don't have a problem with shooting "NEF," just not at horse shows. I will shoot strictly NEF when I do most any other sort of work that I do, weddings, portraits, farm calls, theatre, commercial. As far as any sort of event is concered, I just have to count on knowing how to set up my camera and shoot the highest resolution jpg..

I have a good friend equitog who is more prominent in pure Dressage, who shoot whatever it is that Canonites shoot as RAW.:D She and I argue about it all the time, but she ain't changing, and neither am I!

Of course, in equestrian, it's all about intentionally capturing a point in the stride. Since I never ever ever ever miss, I never ever ever ever need to delete a shot. Nyuk nyuk nyuk nyuk nyuk...:rofl

[TangoJuliet]

I like the idea of renting and have considered it myself.

I rented a 5D MkII and a 70-300 L IS from Borrowlenses.com last year and it was well worth it for me. That's where I'm renting my glass from this year too.

PC/Mac? If you're PC at home, might want to just stick to that platform for interoperability. Cross-platform is not as bad as it used to be, but it's still got quirks.

I'm leaning in that direction for the cost as well as inter..., inter..., limiting the quirks :D .

[gsgary]

We download cards to the main computer 5 minute photo resizes and sends to 3 touch screens where people can browse if they like them we process them with picasa and send to a sony dye sub 15 seconds later they have an 8x6 mounted print and we have £10 in the till

[FL00DY]

Your shots remind me of mine. :) But that being said, the photojournalistic style doesn't really generate sales. Next time you're at a store with car magazines, look at the covers. Dissect them finding out how to create that shot on the cover. Feel what makes that shot worthy of the cover. This is what every car enthusiast wants for their car--a shot like that. If you can deliver this day-in day-out when at events, you'll see your sales and popularity skyrocket. :thumb

And you're selling your prints at cost??????

Whoa I haven't said anything about selling (have I??). Obviously I'd like to one day, but after only a year I know I'm a long way from selling. I have had one guy that liked a few shots of a particularly close shave between cars at the end of a straight, and I loved the positive feedback but most days I look at my photos and know that it's just not happening. Like I said, it's only been a year, I think I'm just being impatient and focusing on the negatives, such as the time taken for PP.

He also needs to cull better. It did not take me long at all to find a lot of shots that need to hit the trash bin. This is one example. He needs to ask himself why this shot should be put up for sale in the first place. It will tarnish the reputation:

http://floody82.smugmug.com/Motorsport/BMW-Club-NSW-2009-Supersprint/BMW-Club-Rnd-2-Eastern-Creek/8494542_4wbrH#558989548_FrCLR

That was May, and yes I look through that album now and know that I could have cull a lot more. Like I said, these have never been put up for sale and I know I would never pay for something like that example. These links only get given out to mates, I don't go publishing the location.

After all the comments about being selective with my shots, I went to watch my mate ride his bike at Eastern Creek in the morning and then went to take photos of cars at the last ever track day at Oran Park before it gets pulled down and turned into housing :( And I've finished the day with 2,073 photos all up and I know I'll be dumping more then half. I'm just at a point where I'm getting a bit (lot) impatient.

[SamirD]

Whoa I haven't said anything about selling (have I??). Obviously I'd like to one day, but after only a year I know I'm a long way from selling. I have had one guy that liked a few shots of a particularly close shave between cars at the end of a straight, and I loved the positive feedback but most days I look at my photos and know that it's just not happening. Like I said, it's only been a year, I think I'm just being impatient and focusing on the negatives, such as the time taken for PP.I think keeping the end goal in mind will help you get there all the more quickly. It can be frustrating wanting and working towards to something without seeing any results. I'd start approaching the shots like you were going to sell then. And then start getting the galleries out there for sale. See what your sales feedback is. Sales won't turn on like a waterfall--it starts as a trickle and then as the volume picks up you'll have a steady stream. But then you'll have some feedback on how to take your stream and turn it into a mighty river. :thumb