Critique please: Golden Pond

[erich6]

Hello all. Here's a shot I entered in the last theme challenge. It didn't make it to the finalist list so I'd like to solicit your expert opinion on what I need to do to improve on this shot.

Thank you in advance!

Erich

http://hbphoto.smugmug.com/photos/26710753-L.jpg

[Shay Stephens]

Asside from exploring color and saturation, I can't think of anything. This is really awesome. The leading lines take you to the hidden fisherman in a subtle and surprising way. I totally dig the photo!

I like the contrast too of the black foreground. All over awesome!

[rahmonster]

Asside from exploring color and saturation, I can't think of anything. This is really awesome. The leading lines take you to the hidden fisherman in a subtle and surprising way. I totally dig the photo!

I like the contrast too of the black foreground. All over awesome!
:agree I really love this shot. One of those photos that makes you feel all warm, and you can't stop looking at it. Wonderful job.

[ginger_55]

Erich, there were other, many, awesome shots that did not make it to the finals in the last challenge.

It really did teach me something..........and it will be hard, but it taught me that making the finals has little to do with the quality of the art, if you don't make the finals. (don't know if that makes any sense.)

I really do like your shots. I did not choose it, that says more about me than about the shot. I am kind of partial to sunsets that are not all about silhouette and color. That is just me. And there were so many shots I liked, yours included. Only ten could be chosen. I chose a mix. My favorite shot did not get included with the matched shots from Andy.........?????? I thought it was a shooo in. Then I had on my list a shot I didn't even like particularly. And I said so. It did get in.

Now, the silhouette and color thing, that is not engraved in stone with me. It would depend on many things.

Your photo is certainly a very good photograph, I do, or did, a lot of sunsets, I have nothing like it................and I would like to.

Gosh, you put this in here to find out what was wrong with it, and there ain't nothin wrong with it.

Now you can't put anything in for a week. I don't put stuff up, because that has happened to me twice now. Sometimes I think I should put up a shot with multiple problems.

ginger (It is a wonderful photograph!)

[erich6]

Thanks for the feedback all. Sorry I haven't responded in a while but I've been out all week camping.

Ginger, I appreciate the honest assessment. I really enjoy the challenges because they offer some structure that I can use to learn more about photography. It's fun just going out there and taking the shots that fit the theme. Although it would be nice to win one (or two) it's not utlimately what drives me to take these images. When I didn't make it this time to the finalists I knew that in the end you have to pick from several amazing shots and that's how it goes but I wanted to make sure I didn't miss something with this shot so I could learn from it.

Anyway, thanks again for the comments.

Erich:D

[Allen]

Awsome photo! Only one little distraction, the copywrite keeps grabbin'' my eye, can it
be lower in intensity a little?
AL

[erich6]

Awsome photo! Only one little distraction, the copywrite keeps grabbin'' my eye, can it
be lower in intensity a little?
AL
Thanks for the tip! I'm not a big fan of those copyright brands so I think I'll remove it completely or dim it way down.

Erich

[Higgmeister]

I have to say that I'd be proud to have shot it. I like it a lot, as it is. But as Shay mentioned, play some with it to see what else might pop out at you. As for not making the finals or winning, that could be from many possibilities; none being that this is an inferior shot. Judging is subjective, and it also has to do with how well it fit into the judges perception of the challenge theme.

Most importantly, what would you change about it. If nothing, then print and hang it on your wall (it's deserving). Your opinion is the most important one here.

Thanks for reposting it here. Sometimes, pictures get lost in the challenge area and I'm glad I had another chance to view this one.

Chris

[Sam]

OK listen up!

1. Print

2. Frame

3. Hang

Got it!

Sam

[Mongrel]

I haven't been around for awhile but your post compelled me to comment. I intended to email you with my *condolences* when this shot failed to make it to the finals of the challenge, but decided against it. Now I will speak openly (since others already have) about this shot and my *feelings*....

This was and is a challenge worthy shot. Absolutely without technical or artistic fault. Wonderful composition and lighting and a mood that is captivating. Whether to play with it or not is your call, but imo it is a great shot as presented.

Now for the 'feelings' part-

Your shot and Higgmeister's '3' were not only more interesting than most of the finalists chosen, but also technically better as well. I'm not quite sure what the message behind the choices was (more friendly to newbies?), but to see these two shots not make the top ten was more than I could personally take. My response was to not participate in voting at all.

Interestingly enough the winning entry won by a landslide (61 votes out of 130 cast), no other shot was even close to being close. To me this showed that the field was weak, not necessarily that the winning shot was that strong (I did find it interesting and well executed however).

Apologies in advance if this post offends anyone. I realize the difficulty in challenge process and appreciate the hard work that it takes. Please take the above ONLY as my PERSONAL opinion and not as a rant or a flame on Andy or Ginger and I do not want to take anything away from Purified who won the challenge 'fair and square'. I just wanted Erich to know how much I appreciated his shot.

back to the doghouse...

Mongrel

[erich6]

OK listen up!

1. Print

2. Frame

3. Hang

Got it!

Sam
Thanks! I might just do that!

[erich6]

I have to say that I'd be proud to have shot it. I like it a lot, as it is. But as Shay mentioned, play some with it to see what else might pop out at you. As for not making the finals or winning, that could be from many possibilities; none being that this is an inferior shot. Judging is subjective, and it also has to do with how well it fit into the judges perception of the challenge theme.

Most importantly, what would you change about it. If nothing, then print and hang it on your wall (it's deserving). Your opinion is the most important one here.

Thanks for reposting it here. Sometimes, pictures get lost in the challenge area and I'm glad I had another chance to view this one.

ChrisChris,

I agree with you and Shay that perhaps some tweaks on the color and saturation might add something to the shot. I do appreciate your and Shay's comments. I like both of your work quite a bit so I have a lot of respect for your opinion.

Erich

[erich6]

I haven't been around for awhile but your post compelled me to comment. I intended to email you with my *condolences* when this shot failed to make it to the finals of the challenge, but decided against it. Now I will speak openly (since others already have) about this shot and my *feelings*....

This was and is a challenge worthy shot. Absolutely without technical or artistic fault. Wonderful composition and lighting and a mood that is captivating. Whether to play with it or not is your call, but imo it is a great shot as presented.

Now for the 'feelings' part-

Your shot and Higgmeister's '3' were not only more interesting than most of the finalists chosen, but also technically better as well. I'm not quite sure what the message behind the choices was (more friendly to newbies?), but to see these two shots not make the top ten was more than I could personally take. My response was to not participate in voting at all.

Interestingly enough the winning entry won by a landslide (61 votes out of 130 cast), no other shot was even close to being close. To me this showed that the field was weak, not necessarily that the winning shot was that strong (I did find it interesting and well executed however).

Apologies in advance if this post offends anyone. I realize the difficulty in challenge process and appreciate the hard work that it takes. Please take the above ONLY as my PERSONAL opinion and not as a rant or a flame on Andy or Ginger and I do not want to take anything away from Purified who won the challenge 'fair and square'. I just wanted Erich to know how much I appreciated his shot.

back to the doghouse...

Mongrel
Mongrel,

What can I say.... Thanks for the incredibly candid and honest feedback. I know it must have been hard for you to write this. I know first hand that a lot of what we "say" on message boards like this can be misinterpreted because of the missing benefit of body language and verbal tone.

I, like you, did not intend this post to be a negative statement on the challenge. I, also like you, think Purified did an excellent job and deserved her win.

I very much appreciate your assessment on this. I like the talent you exhibit in your photographs (and the hard critical eye you hold to your own work! :wxwax).

Regards,

Erich

[gtc]

oh come off it-you don't really want advice on how to improve the shot

rather, you want to be appreciated as being a good photographer and having taken an excellent photo-so, congratulations-its a classic scene and well captured.

you know that there is not much to do except play around with saturation etc as per shays suggestion ,in order to get it to the state where you are fully pleased-after all it is you that you are trying to please,not others.

with shots like this it would be better to say "is this a good shot or what?" and share it with us.

we would agree with you in this instance.

[ginger_55]

I am reading this, and something I read, can't name names, as I am doing about 10 other things, and I don't remember who posted what.

But one thing I did get was the negativity to the challenge picks and the runaway winner, etc.

As a previous winner, who by the way was not picked for the finals this time, and, yes, my heart bleeds, too, even though I know better. (And at this pt the last thing I want to do is put any effort into not getting anywhere in a challenge again. Funny coming from a past winner. We are all human, artists with super egos waiting to be fed: well, mine is..........or a little ego, needing food constantly, whatever)

But as a previous winner, I would hate to have read that about a challenge in which I won.

There is great pride in winning a challenge, more than deserved, I guess. I was soooo proud last time, the field is so good, etc.

I just hate to see that stuff printed here, or anywhere, where the finalists chosen, for that, or any, challenge might read it. PM it, do anything, but don't run down the finalists, or the winners, please. You all might be one someday............sooner than you think. And probably not with a shot you would imagine winning with. Then you can participate in this "choosing of the finalists".

I take responsibility for any shot chosen through my efforts on the challenge in which this more than worthy shot was a contender.
I know there is controversy over the choosing of the winner.

Oh, there is so much I would like to say, but I am not going to. That is a great shot, as were the ones chosen, and many that were not chosen.

And my shot this last time was a great shot, entry, too, and it was NOT chosen. I may get over it, probably will. But I cannot say that the shots that were chosen were not great, too. They were, and only 10 can be chosen.

These challenges are only getting more difficult to get in the finals, to say the least of winning, due to the large amt of FANTASTIC shots.

Please, stand behind your fellow photographers. Gripe, but do it privately. That is the only way not to hurt others. And I am sure that is not anyone's intent.

ginger

[Higgmeister]

This isn't going to be an argument as I agree with some of your points and disagree with others. What I say is only my opinion and noone else's (Disclaimer). I also want to say that I appreciate your candor and don't take your message as demeaning to others.

First, I just want to say that the purpose of these challenges is to have fun, to think of a subject that we might not have ever considered shooting, and too see what others come up with. I like to think that these are an excuse to think outside the box in the extreme to recreating a classic composition on the other side, most falling somewhere inbetween.

As being a part of the process, I can only explain what I did and why. As mentioned before, judging is a subjective process by both parties. Let me go on record as saying that the winning shot in the challenge where I helped select was not chosen by me. I loved the shot, but didn't pick it because I didn't feel it fit the challenge theme as well as others. The rest of you proved me wrong:clap. It's all in the perceptions of those who choose.

I don't fault you for speaking your feelings, and you did specify that these were your feelings. The part where I do fault you is in not voting if given the chance. The rest of us are given a choice of 10 from the field, whether or not we agree with the 10 is of little consequence as it's out of our control. For the current challenge, I would have selected a different 10, as did Kelly, as did Andy and just about everyone else would have. I still voted (just so happens that my favorite for the theme was in there).

I just hope that noone goes off the handle for you expressing your feelings. You are entitled as is everyone else. I don't feel any impropriety in these challenges. Each set of 10 usually contains quite a variety of different type of shots and different expressions of the challenge.

I think you expressed your feelings very well for Erich's shot and I think most will agree with you that it is challenge winning material.

You can come out of the doghouse now and participate as I think you are an asset to this forum as well as the challenges.

Just my .02 and sorry for the long response,
Chris



I haven't been around for awhile but your post compelled me to comment. I intended to email you with my *condolences* when this shot failed to make it to the finals of the challenge, but decided against it. Now I will speak openly (since others already have) about this shot and my *feelings*....

This was and is a challenge worthy shot. Absolutely without technical or artistic fault. Wonderful composition and lighting and a mood that is captivating. Whether to play with it or not is your call, but imo it is a great shot as presented.

Now for the 'feelings' part-

Your shot and Higgmeister's '3' were not only more interesting than most of the finalists chosen, but also technically better as well. I'm not quite sure what the message behind the choices was (more friendly to newbies?), but to see these two shots not make the top ten was more than I could personally take. My response was to not participate in voting at all.

Interestingly enough the winning entry won by a landslide (61 votes out of 130 cast), no other shot was even close to being close. To me this showed that the field was weak, not necessarily that the winning shot was that strong (I did find it interesting and well executed however).

Apologies in advance if this post offends anyone. I realize the difficulty in challenge process and appreciate the hard work that it takes. Please take the above ONLY as my PERSONAL opinion and not as a rant or a flame on Andy or Ginger and I do not want to take anything away from Purified who won the challenge 'fair and square'. I just wanted Erich to know how much I appreciated his shot.

back to the doghouse...

Mongrel

[ginger_55]

I'm am sorry that I attacked you, Mongrel. I agree with everything Higgmeister has said.

I didn't vote once, too. I was not disgusted, the shot, bad choice of words, I would have voted for was just personally too disturbing to me, yet I strongly felt it should win. That was the suicide shot.

As co pickers of finalists, we have input, we do put up a list, but the final say is not ours, though I suspect that to a degree we do have an influence as to what the finalists are. I did not want to say that, but my favorite shot, the time of this sunset shot, my absolutely favorite shot, the one I was going to vote for, it was at the top of my list, but it was not a finalist.

So, I couldn't vote for it. That was a whammy! And a surprise, I thought that its perfection was obvious.

Art is very subjective, like picking books to read, etc. I am surprised at what others like, others are surprised at what I like, etc.

I just well, wanted everyone who was a finalist, ever, to feel good about it. No harm in that. It is not their fault that their crummy work gets chosen. (That is a joke, like when Sid, Bless his heart, says my work sucks, my whatever sucks, and my mother eats dirt, or whatever. I love it when he comes in and says that stuff.)

I don't know what more not to say on the subject, as Andy said, we matched on 6 or 10, or 7 of 10, I even put a couple on my list that I personally did not like. Not all of my list made the finals. Andy might have changed his list a bit by my list. I cannot speak for him.

I am just kind of addicted to the challenges. They are frustrating to me. All this stuff about them being fun: they are when I am out shooting. But obsessing on them, etc. Changing my plans to have an entry, I am trying not to do that. I am very competitive, what gives me the highest high, it can also bring me down low. I am not the type to go into something half way, or just for fun..........I don't act like a perfectionist, but I am, within my own rules on that. So the challenges are not all fun for me, they are partly fun. Partly instructive, partly frustrating..........I guess they are kind of like life in general.

My photography is something I create. It is the closest to giving birth that I have come in a long time. If I did it, I like it. I like it so much that I work hard to include my bad stuff with my good stuff, to the detriment of my better easier work.

No matter what, it hurts to see one of my "children" criticised. So I can understand when anyone has worked their hardest, turned in the best thing they have ever done and not born the fruits of pride. It is bewildering. I think I go through all the stages of death when that happens, unless something more important is going on in my life at the moment.

That sunset is gorgeous. If you love it, do as Sam said, Print it, Frame it and Hang it.

I have a totally rejected favorite that someone printed for me. And I am going to hang it. (If I ever get the extra money to frame it. I just wanted to add that so you see that we all have different personal "challenges".)

Really the work in the challenges here is just so damn good, and often very different. We do not have categories. I remember choosing everything from journalism to well, I did have the winner on my list. It is difficult for me to remember all.

But I do apologise to Mongrel for attacking him. The passion behind my words, I still mean that, but Mongrel, there is no way this system can work any better that I can think of.

It could work differently, but better, maybe for one, but not for another. Art is by nature subjective.

Why do we judge it? I am still asking myself that. (But we do, so voting is a good thing.)

ginger