Canon 1D Mark IV!

[rookieshooter]

Anyone interested?

http://www.canonrumors.com/

Tomorrow is also Canon's 50th anniversary. Congrats white lens shooters!

[bartron]

Rob Galbraith
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10044-10310

PDN
http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/news/e3i7d72e67f57c981694a5866b4e6d19841

Samples
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos1dm4/

[Philip Goh]

Looks like it's Canon's response to the Nikon D3s. Should be interesting to see these two cameras compared side by side.

[craig_d]

The low light capabilities demonstrated in Vincent Laforet's video (see "First video from the new Canon 1D MKIV" elsewhere in this forum) are remarkable. I can't afford one of these puppies, but ISO 6400 with minimal noise (less noise than a 5D Mark II in ISO 3200, it looks like) is a great step forward. I look forward to the 5D Mark III in another year or two...

[Moogle Pepper]

The more important question is, when is Andy going to buy one.:rofl

Figured the mk IV would be announced!

[Andy]

The more important question is, when is Andy going to buy one.:rofl

Figured the mk IV would be announced!

We've been working with Vincent again :D

<object width="640" height="360" ><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.smugmug.com/ria/ShizVidz-2009090604.swf" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="flashVars" value="s=ZT0xJmk9Njg2MzQ1ODIwJms9RWVEQ2EmYT0xMDAyNDEyMl9z cWh3RSZ1PXZpbmNlbnRsYWZvcmV0" /><embed src="http://cdn.smugmug.com/ria/ShizVidz-2009090604.swf" flashVars="s=ZT0xJmk9Njg2MzQ1ODIwJms9RWVEQ2EmYT0xMDAyNDEyMl9z cWh3RSZ1PXZpbmNlbnRsYWZvcmV0" width="640" height="360" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true"></embed></object>

Nocturne, by Vincent Laforet - shot at ISO 6400 on Canon 1D Mark IV.

:jawdrop

[Moogle Pepper]

:huh:eat

Holy moly!

[Awais Yaqub]

Oh man what a video.... I don't know about quality but the concept and how they made it is totally fantastic :clap :clap :clap :clap

[ziggy53]

This model has me pretty excited.

With:


"Calibrated" ISOs to 12,800,



A new AF module with greatly increased sensitivity and capable of f4 cross-type sensor activation for many Canon "L" lenses (or f4 equivalence with a teleconverter) across the entire 39 cross-type point AF array (and f4 sensitivity for the center dot regardless of lens),



With the ability (again) to select individually "any" of the 45 AF points, and finally,



With an AF selection system similar to the 7D, including orientation sensitive AF selection,



... the usability of this camera for sports, news and event photography should be amazing.

[Ric Grupe]

This model has me pretty excited.
... the usability of this camera for sports, news and event photography should be amazing.

Me too!:clap

Let's not forget wildlife, Ziggy! :D

[Shima]

It's certainly got some nice specs! Very drool worthy and I love the video that Vincent posted, really shows off some nice low light amazingness. I'm personally not planning to buy one due to the cost of them and having finally moved to a 2 x 5D Mk II line up (got my second 5D Mk II in August, heh) but I will thoroughly enjoy seeing everyone's images on them!

[ziggy53]

Me too!:clap

Let's not forget wildlife, Ziggy! :D

Absolutely. :thumb :clap

[Crossbarphoto]

:bow:lust

Mmmmm Hmmm!

[AlbertZeroK]

Price?

[Nikolai]

Nice!:thumb
BTW, dpreview has a preliminary look too:
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0910/09102001canon1d4.asp

[Shima]

Price?

$4,999

[AlbertZeroK]

$4,999

I should have known that if I had to ask, I couldn't afford it! :thumb

[insanefred]

not to sound like a troll, I know come off as one sometimes... :D
And the camera should yield some awesome photos in the right hands.



Other then the orientation AF detection...
I am somewhat, oddly, depressed and uninspired by the 1d4. :scratch:cry
And no the video does NOT appeal to me at all. :rolleyes

And for some reason, it actually did make me love my current setup even more! :lust

FWIW: I also found this...
http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/digitalcameras/0,39001468,45095238p,00.htm

The samples one the bottom just cannot be real. I refuse to believe those results.

[Harryb]

The more important question is, when is Andy going to buy one.:rofl

Figured the mk IV would be announced!

The real question is how long after he buys it will he put it up for sale?

[Moogle Pepper]

The real question is how long after he buys it will he put it up for sale?

You got me there! ha!

[Pindy]

This is the one camera Canon makes that I just don't get. That 1.3x sensor is only appealing to long lenses. Otherwise, they seem stuck on this outdated crop factor and have to perpetuate it to those who've bought into the system for years. In every other way, it's a great looking camera.

[Andy]

This is the one camera Canon makes that I just don't get. That 1.3x sensor is only appealing to long lenses. Otherwise, they seem stuck on this outdated crop factor and have to perpetuate it to those who've bought into the system for years. In every other way, it's a great looking camera.
Meh - not really an issue IMO - you get great lens performance (no soft corners) and plenty of megapixels.

[UmmmHowsThat]

FWIW: I also found this...
http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/digitalcameras/0,39001468,45095238p,00.htm

The samples one the bottom just cannot be real. I refuse to believe those results.

It seems they took the pictures down already due to a request from Canon.

[rookieshooter]

This is the one camera Canon makes that I just don't get. That 1.3x sensor is only appealing to long lenses. Otherwise, they seem stuck on this outdated crop factor and have to perpetuate it to those who've bought into the system for years. In every other way, it's a great looking camera.

If you're shooting with a long lens it makes a gigantic difference. In fact I'm going to buy a crop body to compliment my D700 just for air shows, motorcycle racing, etc. The extra reach really comes in handy.

[insanefred]

Crop sensors do not give you any extra reach. I wish that myth would just go away. They do usually give you more more resolution, allowing you to zoom in more in PP and get greater detail.

If you need more reach, they are called tele-converters.

[ziggy53]

Crop sensors do not give you any extra reach. I wish that myth would just go away. They do usually give you more more resolution, allowing you to zoom in more in PP and get greater detail.

If you need more reach, they are called tele-converters.

The "crop" factor does reduce the field of view for any given focal length, similar to the practical effect of a teleconverter, hence the "conception" and "perception" of extra reach.

Another way to think about it is that if you had 2 boxes set up, and 2 camera systems in the boxes to create a blind test, and if each system had the same field of view and "f" setting, you would not be able to discern which system delivered which results based upon crop body or teleconverter "and" full-format body. There would be differences, of course, in shutter speed to achieve the same exposure of the same scene and lighting conditions.

I think we can agree that we are, in fact, thinking of the same results; it is only the "conceptual" differences that interfere with acceptance.

[divamum]

This is the one camera Canon makes that I just don't get. That 1.3x sensor is only appealing to long lenses. Otherwise, they seem stuck on this outdated crop factor and have to perpetuate it to those who've bought into the system for years. In every other way, it's a great looking camera.

Isn't a camera like this pretty much intended for pro press and sports 'tog? If so, then I'd have thought "tele" is just what they need :dunno And since the other pro model is a ff, doesn't that pretty much cover everybody?

My question is why did they confuse their lineup with TWO "1" names? I had no clue until recently that they were actually different cameras, rather than different model/year of the same one. Very confusing until you reach Total Geek status (sadly, I think I'm now there.... :rofl).

[ziggy53]

Isn't a camera like this pretty much intended for pro press and sports 'tog? If so, then I'd have thought "tele" is just what they need :dunno And since the other pro model is a ff, doesn't that pretty much cover everybody?

My question is why did they confuse their lineup with TWO "1" names? I had no clue until recently that they were actually different cameras, rather than different model/year of the same one. Very confusing until you reach Total Geek status (sadly, I think I'm now there.... :rofl).

Yes, the Canon 1D MKIV intended market is mostly professional sports and news. They also know that a lot of professional studio, event, nature and wildlife photographers will use the camera as well.

The Canon "1" designation has always meant the pinnacle of the Canon camera line. It implies both speed and durability. The 1D and 1Ds share very similar, in some cases almost identical:

Body construction
Shutter box
Mirror box
Image processor and processing algorithms (although the recent 1D models use "dual" processors primarily to maintain image throughput speeds)
Responsiveness (not to be confused with fps)

In Canon-speak, the larger the number, and the larger the number of digits, the more recent the model and/or the more subordinate the series.

[Blackwood]

This is the one camera Canon makes that I just don't get. That 1.3x sensor is only appealing to long lenses. Otherwise, they seem stuck on this outdated crop factor and have to perpetuate it to those who've bought into the system for years. In every other way, it's a great looking camera.

I don't agree. Unless you repeatedly go back and forth between various sensor sizes, the crop factor isn't an issue. Just use appropriate focal lengths for your composition whether you are using a 4X5 sensor or one the size of your fingernail.

[craig_d]

I think we can agree that we are, in fact, thinking of the same results; it is only the "conceptual" differences that interfere with acceptance.

This is something one encounters quite a lot in photography. I know that when people say things like "small sensors make your lenses longer" or "small sensors have more DOF" that they are talking about a real effect that has meaning in practice, but on a technical level these statements are completely wrong and don't help anyone to understand what's really going on.

The only thing an APS-C/Four-Thirds/etc. sensor does differently from full-frame is read a smaller area of the image circle. It doesn't change perspective, focal length, or DOF by itself. These things change, if at all, as a result of the photographer making other changes in an attempt to maintain certain invariants relative to full frame, such as field of view (which requires a change of focal length or position) or print size (which requires a change of magnification). These other changes are what cause the perceived effects. It's not that the effects aren't real, it's that they aren't caused by the sensor.

[insanefred]

This is something one encounters quite a lot in photography. I know that when people say things like "small sensors make your lenses longer" or "small sensors have more DOF" that they are talking about a real effect that has meaning in practice, but on a technical level these statements are completely wrong and don't help anyone to understand what's really going on.

The only thing an APS-C/Four-Thirds/etc. sensor does differently from full-frame is read a smaller area of the image circle. It doesn't change perspective, focal length, or DOF by itself. These things change, if at all, as a result of the photographer making other changes in an attempt to maintain certain invariants relative to full frame, such as field of view (which requires a change of focal length or position) or print size (which requires a change of magnification). These other changes are what cause the perceived effects. It's not that the effects aren't real, it's that they aren't caused by the sensor.

My thoughts exactly.

Also, "the af points don't cover as much on FF" thing is complete crap too.

[ziggy53]

...

Also, "the af points don't cover as much on FF" thing is complete crap too.

Not so sure about that. Between my Canon XT/350D, 40D, 1D MKII and 5D MKII cameras, the crop 1.6x cameras do seem to occupy more of the viewfinder with AF points, however:

The AF module is different between these different cameras and I would not expect the same AF coverage regardless.

The smaller crop format cameras also have less viewfinder coverage, meaning that if they showed the same image coverage of the 5D MKII (98 percent, for instance), that alone would reduce the apparent size of the AF cluster in the viewfinder.

[studio1972]

The only thing an APS-C/Four-Thirds/etc. sensor does differently from full-frame is read a smaller area of the image circle. It doesn't change perspective, focal length, or DOF by itself. These things change, if at all, as a result of the photographer making other changes in an attempt to maintain certain invariants relative to full frame, such as field of view (which requires a change of focal length or position) or print size (which requires a change of magnification). These other changes are what cause the perceived effects. It's not that the effects aren't real, it's that they aren't caused by the sensor.

This is pretty unhelpful TBH. It's better to see the sensor and lens as part of a whole system rather than the lens does this and the sensor does that. Take a look at video cameras for an example, a 1/3" chip video camera has a tiny sensor compared to a DSLR and may have a zoom range of something like 4mm-56mm, this behaves very differently from the way a 4mm-56mm lens would behave on a DSLR, you have to look at the whole system to understand it.

[craig_d]

This is pretty unhelpful TBH. It's better to see the sensor and lens as part of a whole system rather than the lens does this and the sensor does that. Take a look at video cameras for an example, a 1/3" chip video camera has a tiny sensor compared to a DSLR and may have a zoom range of something like 4mm-56mm, this behaves very differently from the way a 4mm-56mm lens would behave on a DSLR, you have to look at the whole system to understand it.

You need to understand both parts separately to understand how they combine. For one thing, the same lens can work with more than one type of sensor, so if you want to understand the similarities and differences between, say, a Canon EF 24-70 L USM on full-frame and on APS-C, you have to understand how the various components contribute to the final result.

[ziggy53]

I just noticed that "The Digital Picture" review of the Canon 1D MKIV is up.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-Mark-IV-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

Nice things like:

"Differences in noise between the 1D III, 1D IV and 5D II samples up through ISO 6400 are minor and insignificant to my eyes - all 3 DSLRs produce impressive results. Thus, higher resolution wins at final output. The Canon EOS 1D Mark IV maintains its good results while providing far more resolution than the 1D III without an increase in sensor size."

"Do you find AE (Auto Exposure) to be consistently under or over exposing your images? The new AE Microadjustment feature is for you. Dial in up to ±1 stop of adjustment in 1/8-stop increments."

"Like the 1D III, the 1D IV has a fast 1/300 max standard Flash Sync shutter speed for Canon Speedlite Flashes (plus High Speed Synch) and FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) of up to ±3 stops is available in 1/3- or 1/2-stop increments. The 1D IV provides a flash menu for complete control of external 580EX II, 430EX II and 270EX Speedlites."

"Do you find FE (Flash Exposure) to be consistently under or over exposing your images? The new FE Microadjustment feature is for you. Dial in up to ±1 stop of adjustment in 1/8-stop increments."

"The 1D Mark IV uses the same 45 AF point layout as Mark III, but the 1D IV's new low-noise AF sensor has 45 user-selectable AF points. This is the same number of AF points available on the 1D II/N but significantly more than the 1D III's 19. I was not thrilled to lose my AF points when the 1D III arrived - I'm glad to have them back. Of course, if you prefer the 1D III way, Custom Function C.Fn III-10 will let you configure the camera for 19 AF points - or 11, or 9 inner or 9 outer."

"The 1D Mark II/N had 7, the 1D Mark III had 19, but the Canon EOS 1D Mark IV features 39 cross-type AF sensors that are functional during manual AF point selection (19 are cross-type functional with automatic AF point selection) with all f/2.8 and faster EF lenses as well as the following f/4 EF lenses:

17-40mm f/4 L USM
24-105mm f/4 L IS USM
70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM + Extender EF 1.4x II
200mm f/2 L IS USM + Extender EF 2x II
300mm f/2.8 L IS USM + Extender EF 1.4x II
400mm f/2.8 L IS USM + Extender EF 1.4x II"

... and finally:

"I have never had so many sharp-in-focus images from a session with a running dog before. Many of these shots were taken at or near the provided Canon speed/distance rating. This rating is indeed just one possible rating. For example, the 1D IV can track a fighter jet at longer distances and something far slower at very close distances.

As I said, the burst that this example shot was taken from was using all AF points active. My results were similar when using the center AF point-only. Particularly impressive is that I was not able to keep the AF point perfectly pinned on my bouncing target nose at all times, but the camera maintained focus regardless. Canon claims that "stability" was one of their AI Servo AF goals - to keep the subject in focus even if the AF point was temporarily obstructed or moved off of the target. I'd say they achieved this goal.

My soccer action photography results were similar. Under dim indoor arena soccer lighting and under cloudy skies outdoors, the 1D IV delivered a very high percentage of sharp images.

I love shots of kids running (they always look excited when running with someone intently watching). At reasonably close distances, even young kids are challenging for an AF system to keep up with. The 1D IV performs remarkably well at this task."

-------------------------------------------------

It does appear as if the 1D MKIV improves on the many good things about the previous 1D series cameras, and (hopefully) it appears to address the AF issues of the 1D MKIII.

[Photoskipper]

I just noticed that "The Digital Picture" review of the Canon 1D MKIV is up.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-1D-Mark-IV-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

Nice things like:

"Differences in noise between the 1D III, 1D IV and 5D II samples up through ISO 6400 are minor and insignificant to my eyes - all 3 DSLRs produce impressive results. Thus, higher resolution wins at final output. The Canon EOS 1D Mark IV maintains its good results while providing far more resolution than the 1D III without an increase in sensor size."

"Do you find AE (Auto Exposure) to be consistently under or over exposing your images? The new AE Microadjustment feature is for you. Dial in up to ±1 stop of adjustment in 1/8-stop increments."

"Like the 1D III, the 1D IV has a fast 1/300 max standard Flash Sync shutter speed for Canon Speedlite Flashes (plus High Speed Synch) and FEC (Flash Exposure Compensation) of up to ±3 stops is available in 1/3- or 1/2-stop increments. The 1D IV provides a flash menu for complete control of external 580EX II, 430EX II and 270EX Speedlites."

"Do you find FE (Flash Exposure) to be consistently under or over exposing your images? The new FE Microadjustment feature is for you. Dial in up to ±1 stop of adjustment in 1/8-stop increments."

"The 1D Mark IV uses the same 45 AF point layout as Mark III, but the 1D IV's new low-noise AF sensor has 45 user-selectable AF points. This is the same number of AF points available on the 1D II/N but significantly more than the 1D III's 19. I was not thrilled to lose my AF points when the 1D III arrived - I'm glad to have them back. Of course, if you prefer the 1D III way, Custom Function C.Fn III-10 will let you configure the camera for 19 AF points - or 11, or 9 inner or 9 outer."

"The 1D Mark II/N had 7, the 1D Mark III had 19, but the Canon EOS 1D Mark IV features 39 cross-type AF sensors that are functional during manual AF point selection (19 are cross-type functional with automatic AF point selection) with all f/2.8 and faster EF lenses as well as the following f/4 EF lenses:

17-40mm f/4 L USM
24-105mm f/4 L IS USM
70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM + Extender EF 1.4x II
200mm f/2 L IS USM + Extender EF 2x II
300mm f/2.8 L IS USM + Extender EF 1.4x II
400mm f/2.8 L IS USM + Extender EF 1.4x II"

... and finally:

"I have never had so many sharp-in-focus images from a session with a running dog before. Many of these shots were taken at or near the provided Canon speed/distance rating. This rating is indeed just one possible rating. For example, the 1D IV can track a fighter jet at longer distances and something far slower at very close distances.

As I said, the burst that this example shot was taken from was using all AF points active. My results were similar when using the center AF point-only. Particularly impressive is that I was not able to keep the AF point perfectly pinned on my bouncing target nose at all times, but the camera maintained focus regardless. Canon claims that "stability" was one of their AI Servo AF goals - to keep the subject in focus even if the AF point was temporarily obstructed or moved off of the target. I'd say they achieved this goal.

My soccer action photography results were similar. Under dim indoor arena soccer lighting and under cloudy skies outdoors, the 1D IV delivered a very high percentage of sharp images.

I love shots of kids running (they always look excited when running with someone intently watching). At reasonably close distances, even young kids are challenging for an AF system to keep up with. The 1D IV performs remarkably well at this task."

-------------------------------------------------

It does appear as if the 1D MKIV improves on the many good things about the previous 1D series cameras, and (hopefully) it appears to address the AF issues of the 1D MKIII.l

Hi, Ziggy,

I posted a thread last month on what I should upgrade the 3 years old 5D. I took your advise and checked out with local shops. Still not very convince.
Now I see the 1D Mk4 which has everything on 5D MkII plus the faster shutter and much higher ISO. Except that the sensor is a bit smaller and resolution is 16 MP only. Can you tell me whether I should change to 1D Mk 4? I still keep the old 5D as second body.

[rwells]

l

Hi, Ziggy,

I posted a thread last month on what I should upgrade the 3 years old 5D. I took your advise and checked out with local shops. Still not very convince.
Now I see the 1D Mk4 which has everything on 5D MkII plus the faster shutter and much higher ISO. Except that the sensor is a bit smaller and resolution is 16 MP only. Can you tell me whether I should change to 1D Mk 4? I still keep the old 5D as second body.

It's all subjective I suppose, but unless your eyes are much different than mine, the review linked above shows surprisingly that up to ISO 6400, the 1DMkIII, 5DMkII and 1DIV perform very very close to each other. I wouldn't really use anything above ISO 6400 on any of them, except for emergencies. So, the 1D4 does not have "everything on the 5D MkII". It cost twice what the 5D2 does, is heavier, and has less resolution.

It does look like a nice body though.

I can hardly wait for the 5D2 updated body. If they give it a GOOD AF, I'm there :thumb

Disclosure: 5DMkII is in my stable of bodies

[ziggy53]

l

Hi, Ziggy,

I posted a thread last month on what I should upgrade the 3 years old 5D. I took your advise and checked out with local shops. Still not very convince.
Now I see the 1D Mk4 which has everything on 5D MkII plus the faster shutter and much higher ISO. Except that the sensor is a bit smaller and resolution is 16 MP only. Can you tell me whether I should change to 1D Mk 4? I still keep the old 5D as second body.

The 5D MKII is a wonderful camera for wedding formals and studio shoots, landscapes and natural beauty.

The 1D MKIV should be the best Canon camera ever for wedding ceremony, action, sports, news events and wildlife.

The difference in responsiveness between the 2 cameras is astonishing and the low-light AF of the 1D NKIV should be greatly better.

The 1D MKIV will also be nearly twice the cost of the 5D MKII.

The APS-H format still retains a "fairly" wide feel for wide angle lenses and slightly extends longer lenses. Here is the Canon representation of the different camera aspects:

http://www.usa.canon.com/uploadedimages/FCK/Image/2009/Real%20Estate%20Tip/Sensor%20Sizes.jpg

(Image is used from this page:)
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2887&fromTips=1&displayMode=print

The 14mm lens in this case would seem like an 18mm lens, still pretty wide.

The difference between 16 MPix and 21 MPix is negligible for almost any application and both are enough for prints to 30" x 40" in most situations. The better AF of the 1D MKIV should make it the preferable system for any low-light or difficult subject.

The "usable" ISO range of the 5D MKII and the 1D MKIV should be very similar. For my uses that means an ISO 1600 usable for anything, and an ISO 6400 usable for up to an 8" x 10" print. I don't think that ISOs beyond are usable for most commercial applications. (A pleasing 8" x 10" at ISO 6400 is a minor miracle in and of itself.)

[ziggy53]

... I can hardly wait for the 5D2 updated body. If they give it a GOOD AF, I'm there :thumb

Disclosure: 5DMkII is in my stable of bodies

You and me both. I am working on a focus assist device for the 5D MKII that should extend the AF capabilities of the 5D MKII considerably (based on a very old and disabled flash.)

BTW, for everyone reading, Randy and I have a very similar take on the 2 cameras and I didn't see his response before giving my own. Similar thoughts ...

[rwells]

You and me both. I am working on a focus assist device for the 5D MKII that should extend the AF capabilities of the 5D MKII considerably (based on a very old and disabled flash.)

BTW, for everyone reading, Randy and I have a very similar take on the 2 cameras and I didn't see his response before giving my own. Similar thoughts ...

Hey Ziggy,

Keep us up to date on the device. I have used the ST-E2 in very low light with excellent results. I'm talking about its use just for the focus assist, not just for flash use. The only problem is that you can't use it (or on-flash assist beam) while in AI Servo mode.

One other point on the 1D4 ~ 5D2. There is a significant cushion between 16 ~ 21 Mpix when your talking crop-ability. I don't know exactly how much you can crop a 5D2 image before you come down to the 1D4 native 16Mpix resolution, but I find the great crop-ability of the 5D2 to be very useful.

All that said, if I could afford the 1DIV right now, I'd buy one.

I'm also now considering buying a used 1DIII, especially since I read/reviewed the above link and ISO test that demonstrate the three tested camera bodies (5D2, 1D3, 1D4) are almost identical up to ISO 6400. They can now be found for $2,000 ~ 2,400. A fellow on POTN has a killer noise reduction setup (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=720571)that actually allows ISO 12,800 images to be of good quality. The big downfall to me is the 1D3 crappy playback screen. :dunno

[craig_d]

One other point on the 1D4 ~ 5D2. There is a significant cushion between 16 ~ 21 Mpix when your talking crop-ability. I don't know exactly how much you can crop a 5D2 image before you come down to the 1D4 native 16Mpix resolution, but I find the great crop-ability of the 5D2 to be very useful.

I agree about the croppability of 21 MP images. It's very nice. For many purposes I am willing, if it seems necessary, to drop as low as 8 MP, which basically means I can pretend I was shooting with a lens of up 1.6x the focal length I was actually using.

A 5D2 image is approximately 5630x3750 pixels, a bit over 21 MP. 16 MP would be roughly 4900x3270 pixels. So the 5D2 has about 730 more pixels horizontally and about 480 more vertically -- not all that much. The 1.3x crop factor of the sensor size would be more bothersome to me than the pixel count, since I like my wide-angles, and my new circular fisheye would be have its circle cropped at the top and bottom.

[ziggy53]

... I'm also now considering buying a used 1DIII, especially since I read/reviewed the above link and ISO test that demonstrate the three tested camera bodies (5D2, 1D3, 1D4) are almost identical up to ISO 6400. They can now be found for $2,000 ~ 2,400. A fellow on POTN has a killer noise reduction setup (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=720571)that actually allows ISO 12,800 images to be of good quality. The big downfall to me is the 1D3 crappy playback screen. :dunno

I bought the "FlexNR" action set to test and it also works, to a lesser degree, on the 1D MKII. To be really valuable a custom set of noise profiles would have to be developed specific to the 1D MKII. It does appear to work well on the image processors through the Digic III. Starting with Digic IV it is less valuable as that image processor accomplishes something similar in-camera, even with RAW files.

[ziggy53]

I agree about the croppability of 21 MP images. It's very nice. For many purposes I am willing, if it seems necessary, to drop as low as 8 MP, which basically means I can pretend I was shooting with a lens of up 1.6x the focal length I was actually using.

A 5D2 image is approximately 5630x3750 pixels, a bit over 21 MP. 16 MP would be roughly 4900x3270 pixels. So the 5D2 has about 730 more pixels horizontally and about 480 more vertically -- not all that much. The 1.3x crop factor of the sensor size would be more bothersome to me than the pixel count, since I like my wide-angles, and my new circular fisheye would be have its circle cropped at the top and bottom.

For some time now (since PS CS2) if I know that I want to crop an image I use the interpolation upres capabilities of ACR to create images with more pixels, and then I process those images at that size and crop to suite the scene. It works particularly well for images from the 1D MKII and 40D as long as noise levels are reasonable and as long as there is good sharpness to begin with.

Currently ACR is limited to 25 MPix so the images from the 5D MKII really don't gain anything from interpolation in ACR.

Before someone asks, yes, I believe it is visibly better to interpolate from RAW rather than wait to interpolate afterward from the demosaiced RGB image. This is also the method recommended by Corbis.

(Look in the following file under "Interpolation Guidelines for Digital Images":)

http://studioplus.corbis.com/DownloadableDocuments/Interpolation_Guidelines_v5.pdf

[Photoskipper]

Thanks Ziggy,

It is very difficult decision to make for either 1D4 or 5D2. Cost is the major factor to consider. Performance seems very close.
the fact that I like the full frame but the 16 MP is good enough. 21 MP may be a bit overkill. 1.3X cropping is not really much, it may extend some of my super-tele lens. I am still keeping the FF for landscape anyway, so no loss in wide angles.
Frame rate is something really extra. But anyway I enjoy portrait, wedding and landscape. 3.9 frames per sec seems more that sufficient.
Focusing points in 1D4 is much more than 5D2. it may give me some advantage on tracking the flying birds (rarely do it)
The 5D and 5D2 donot share the battery and grip. I may be better to jump to 1D4.
1D4 is bigger but heavier. It will increase the weight on my back.

Still struggling which way to go.:dunno

[Photoskipper]

The 5D MKII is a wonderful camera for wedding formals and studio shoots, landscapes and natural beauty.

The 1D MKIV should be the best Canon camera ever for wedding ceremony, action, sports, news events and wildlife.

The difference in responsiveness between the 2 cameras is astonishing and the low-light AF of the 1D NKIV should be greatly better.

The 1D MKIV will also be nearly twice the cost of the 5D MKII.

The APS-H format still retains a "fairly" wide feel for wide angle lenses and slightly extends longer lenses. Here is the Canon representation of the different camera aspects:

http://www.usa.canon.com/uploadedimages/FCK/Image/2009/Real%20Estate%20Tip/Sensor%20Sizes.jpg

(Image is used from this page:)
http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=GetArticleAct&articleID=2887&fromTips=1&displayMode=print

The 14mm lens in this case would seem like an 18mm lens, still pretty wide.

The difference between 16 MPix and 21 MPix is negligible for almost any application and both are enough for prints to 30" x 40" in most situations. The better AF of the 1D MKIV should make it the preferable system for any low-light or difficult subject.

The "usable" ISO range of the 5D MKII and the 1D MKIV should be very similar. For my uses that means an ISO 1600 usable for anything, and an ISO 6400 usable for up to an 8" x 10" print. I don't think that ISOs beyond are usable for most commercial applications. (A pleasing 8" x 10" at ISO 6400 is a minor miracle in and of itself.)


I finally paid the balance and take home the 5D2 this afternoon. Still in the box, just started charging the battery and studying the manual before start the settings.

The 1D4 has no stock and the queue is 3 months long. I need something for my own Valentine's day present:clap

[ziggy53]

Congratulations Photoskipper. I certainly do love mine. :clap

[jovitta]

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1dmarkIV/

[rookieshooter]

I hope we'll start seeing some reviews from the Olympic shooters soon.

[aktse]

I hope we'll start seeing some reviews from the Olympic shooters soon.

They article is written by Brad Mangin, but the opinion is from Al Bello (http://www.sportsshooter.com/news/2380). He's the Getty Images Chief Photographer for North America.

[ziggy53]

While it's not objective at all, here is the Canon blog relating to the 1D MKIV and the 2010 Winter Olympics:

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/vancouver2010.do

[ziggy53]

An amusing video showing what Canon Marketing did to promote the Canon cameras in Vancouver:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWShDa_KfSI

[ziggy53]

News images using the Canon 1D MKIV in Vancouver:

http://www.heraldnet.com/article/20100217/BLOG28/100219865

[ziggy53]

The Canon CPS "lens room" in Vancouver:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/4357519948_bcd3740ab9_o.jpg

[Eclipsed]

Wow, that's cool. I wish I had a lens collection like that:thumb

[Moogle Pepper]

The Canon CPS "lens room" in Vancouver:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2671/4357519948_bcd3740ab9_o.jpg
:cry

Why did you have to show that one, Ziggy.

Lens envy has now grown exponentially. :cry

[Nimai]

Any release date news?

[ziggy53]

Any release date news?

The Canon 1D MKIV is available now, but with severe shortages everywhere.

[Nimai]

The Canon 1D MKIV is available now, but with severe shortages everywhere.In December, I added my self to the B&H notify-me-when-available list, but still have heard nothing. I assumed that Canon hadn't released it yet!

[ziggy53]

In December, I added my self to the B&H notify-me-when-available list, but still have heard nothing. I assumed that Canon hadn't released it yet!

That's possible if there are a lot of people signed up before you.

Adorama allows you to be added to a list and they will ship when they have the item and hit your name. With Adorama you don't have to do anything additional.