Nikon user contemplating switch to Canon 7D

[wildviper]

I am not sure about you, but I feel let down by Nikon coming out with D300s. That was a cop-out and I was waiting for something that would blow the doors away. Alas, not to be. Don't get me wrong, the D300s is an amazing camera, but I was expecting more like 7D improvements.

Now looking at the 7D, I am more and more inclined to switch. I am not that heavily vested in my lenses, so that would not be a problem.

For me the 7D over 300s benefits are:

- Spot AF (that is sounding pretty awesome)
- Zone AF --- that also seems nice
- 18 megapixels (please refrain from the megapixels are not important and all..they are to me when I go to crop)

- Full 1080p movie mode with different FPS. (not sure what I will use it for, but I rather have it and learn than be left behind)

- Also, can take a shot while shooting a movie (pretty cool!)

- Dual layer metering system with luminosity and color

- Dual Digic processors can only mean good things with low noise(not a tech expert)

Just few of the things that I like.

How about you? Are Nikon users planning(or wishing) on switching? What do you like about the D300s?
-

[Ekaj]

As far as I'm concerned the autofocus of even the D300 is far superior to any of canons cameras. The movie mode stuff I won't speak to, because I'm interested in taking still photos.

[bloomphotog]

I would just get the 7D if I was you. It sounds like you like some of the features and your obviously want to try it. Just get it, check it out, and have fun. I'm sure it's a fine body. The D300 has one of the best AF systems on the market, and it works exceptionally well if you know how to use it. Personally, I would not switch to Canon, as I feel their lineup is better suited to studio work; whereas I am a photojournalist. Let us know how it works out for you!

[Harryb]

This is the same old story. Before the D3 and D300 were released we were bitching and contemplating a switch. Then the D3 and 300 were released and a number of Canonites were bitching and contemplating switching.

If you switch systems over a few features you probably will be sorry down the line.

The companies will leap frog each other in different years. They would love it if we kept switching as soon as one took a temporary lead in features. I can't afford it myself.

[Qarik]

The 7D has basically caught up to the D300. *shrug* No reason to switch IMO

[craig_d]

Heh, I have a Canon 5D2 and I'm half-seriously contemplating switching to the Leica M9... but it won't happen, because (a) the Leica is too bloody expensive and (b) you can't do some things with it that I sometimes like to do with my SLR (like macro work) or that I might like to do someday (like attach it to my telescope). But just as a "go anywhere, anytime, take shots on the spur of the moment" camera, the Leica seems really cool, and the pictures I've seen from it are just incredible. I'm waiting to see reviews of the less-expensive, fixed-lens Leica X1, which I conceivably could buy as a pocket camera.

[Art Scott]

This is the same old story. Before the D3 and D300 were released we were bitching and contemplating a switch. Then the D3 and 300 were released and a number of Canonites were bitching and contemplating switching.

If you switch systems over a few features you probably will be sorry down the line.

The companies will leap frog each other in different years. They would love it if we kept switching as soon as one took a temporary lead in features. I can't afford it myself.

:agree a 1000 fold..............................

Hopefully after the 1st of the year I will be solvent enuff to take some of your D300's off your hands.....I would like 1-3 more for back ups and IR's........................

[angevin1]

I am not sure about you, but I feel let down by Nikon coming out with D300s. That was a cop-out and I was waiting for something that would blow the doors away. Alas, not to be. Don't get me wrong, the D300s is an amazing camera, but I was expecting more like 7D improvements.

Now looking at the 7D, I am more and more inclined to switch. I am not that heavily vested in my lenses, so that would not be a problem.

For me the 7D over 300s benefits are:

- Spot AF (that is sounding pretty awesome)
- Zone AF --- that also seems nice
- 18 megapixels (please refrain from the megapixels are not important and all..they are to me when I go to crop)

- Full 1080p movie mode with different FPS. (not sure what I will use it for, but I rather have it and learn than be left behind)

- Also, can take a shot while shooting a movie (pretty cool!)

- Dual layer metering system with luminosity and color

- Dual Digic processors can only mean good things with low noise(not a tech expert)

Just few of the things that I like.

How about you? Are Nikon users planning(or wishing) on switching? What do you like about the D300s?
-
No. However, any day that I feel Canon, or Sony or whoever has something I need and Nikon doesn't, I'll just buy it and not give up my present gear. I personally like several things I have read about the 5D2 and Sony's new offering as well. And with the exception of video, I don't feel really compelled to get any other items than I presently use. I do admit to wanting vid capability, but then, I only have so much time to devote.

Does it really matter who's brand you use? I don't think so. I think you buy the camera with the capabilities you desire or need. My needs are met at present.

As for the D300S..I actually read about it when it first streamed in, and haven't even thought about it since. Because I wasn't impressed, and I like FX. I'd like to expect a major improvement with the next iteration in the D700 line up, but with Nikon, one can rest assured there'll be some dear coin to exchange in the offering...

When I stop to think about it, my D70 ( not the D700) is just a darned nice camera! Like I've said many times before, if ISO weren't an issue for me, I'd still be shootin the D200.

[Catharsis]

While I am in no position to switch anytime soon... I am annoyed with nikon on the relatively minor upgrade to the 300s. At this point if you are going to have a video mode it NEEDS manual controls even if it is only 720p, sort of felt like I got slapped and given the finger. If you are going to do something don't go half way, finish the job.

[angevin1]

:agree a 1000 fold..............................

Hopefully after the 1st of the year I will be solvent enuff to take some of your D300's off your hands.....I would like 1-3 more for back ups and IR's........................

Keep your lens cap on....I'm keepin mine~~:rofl

[wildviper]

Well as I said, I am not heavily vested in Nikon just yet and that is why I was even considering such a move. It is time for me to upgrade from my D70s and thus this post.

I think the "lack" of an upgrade on D300s has got me more pissed off than anything. I have been waiting to upgrade my D70s for a year now thinking the D400 will come around. I can't go full frame since I can't afford it so, my route is sticking to the AP-C sensors.

The other reasarch I have been doing is the difference between the cost of the Canon lenses versus Nikon lenses. It seems that Canon lenses are typically $150 to $200 or so cheaper than Nikon for very very similar performance. A Canon 24-70/2.8 brand new was around $1,250. A Used Nikon 24-70/2.8, I saw on here was sold for $1,425.

The thing I absolutely hate about the Canon's is the ergnomics. If anything keeps me from going away from Nikon, it is this. I love the dual dials and everything working the way I think.

For me, this is the MAJOR upgrade time. Once I do this, I am getting the expensive lenses and such. I would imagine that it would take a revolution of some kind for me to consider switching then. It would be more moving up the line rather than across (if you know what I mean).

That is why this is important for me. I realize there are a lot of posts here every now and then such as these, however, there are very very specific things I am looking for in a new camera...The Canon 7d seems to deliver a lot of them over the D300s. Ergnomics is a cause for concern for me though and I think ultimately the more important one.

[Ekaj]

Sounds like your mind is already made up. But I can tell you this, you cannot take good photos with a camera that feels akward. If you already like the feel of nikon, you may never be satisfied. I'm sure you will grow accustomed to it though.

Your lens comparison is skewed. The nikkor 24-70 is far superior to the canon.

Bottom line is that a more expensive camera doesn't equal better photos. Consider taking some workshops or classes instead. ;P

[bloomphotog]

Your lens comparison is skewed. The nikkor 24-70 is far superior to the canon.

I have heard this from many of my fellow photogs. And to be honest, the only Canon lens I wish I could use is the 85mm f/1.2...:D

Wildviper, I think you will find that most all of the pro glass is designed for full frame cameras. If you plan on investing in good glass, you may want to budget a little higher for a body that can bring out the quality you're paying a premium for. A used D700 can be had for a little over $2K, and that's a body you won't outgrow until you can afford a new one. If you wanted to switch to Canon a used 5DMK2 would a superb choice as well.

[craig_d]

Your lens comparison is skewed. The nikkor 24-70 is far superior to the canon.

How so? They're both top-drawer pro lenses, and the published test results don't show much difference between them. The Nikon doesn't have the Canon's slight softness at 70mm f/2.8, but Canon has less CA and less geometric distortion through the middle of the range.

[wildviper]

Sounds like your mind is already made up. But I can tell you this, you cannot take good photos with a camera that feels akward. If you already like the feel of nikon, you may never be satisfied. I'm sure you will grow accustomed to it though.

Your lens comparison is skewed. The nikkor 24-70 is far superior to the canon.

Bottom line is that a more expensive camera doesn't equal better photos. Consider taking some workshops or classes instead. ;P

My mind is NOT made up and thus this thread. I want to convince myself to stick with Nikon, but it is very hard.

About the lenses, I thought the Canon 24-70 is comparable to Nikon 24-70. How about the 70-200/2.8?

[bloomphotog]

My mind is NOT made up and thus this thread. I want to convince myself to stick with Nikon, but it is very hard.

About the lenses, I thought the Canon 24-70 is comparable to Nikon 24-70. How about the 70-200/2.8?

Anyone here made the Nikon > Canon mutin....err, switch :D and wish to share their thoughts? That would probably be the most helpful input right now....

[rookieshooter]

Anyone here made the Nikon > Canon mutin....err, switch :D and wish to share their thoughts? That would probably be the most helpful input right now....

See the "sleeping with the enemy" thread for that.

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=118613&highlight=enemy

As a Nikon guy I say stick with the D300 as it is a great camera, but if you're curious about the 7D rent one and see how it measures up.

http://www.borrowlenses.com/product/canon_bodies/Canon_7D

A head-to-head: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Nikon_D300s/verdict.shtml

Discussion: http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/809498

They are very close. In the end it comes down to personal preference, ergonomics and glass investment.

[JimFuglestad]

This is the same old story. Before the D3 and D300 were released we were bitching and contemplating a switch. Then the D3 and 300 were released and a number of Canonites were bitching and contemplating switching.

If you switch systems over a few features you probably will be sorry down the line.

The companies will leap frog each other in different years. They would love it if we kept switching as soon as one took a temporary lead in features. I can't afford it myself.

Hi Harry!

[Mav]

Am I correct that you are currently running a D70s?

If so, it sounds like D300s would be a great jump forward in specs for you - including addressing the issue of number of pixels you reference.

There will always be something better out there or coming soon. I'm only new to this game but it seems to me there is some great technology out there, more than most of us can truly utilise or appreciate, and that the best camera is the one that you use.

You state that you already like the ergos of the Nikon - just rent a D300s for a weekend and decide if you still don't think it's enough of a jump in capabilities for you.

[ziggy53]

While I am in no position to switch anytime soon... I am annoyed with nikon on the relatively minor upgrade to the 300s. At this point if you are going to have a video mode it NEEDS manual controls even if it is only 720p, sort of felt like I got slapped and given the finger. If you are going to do something don't go half way, finish the job.

Catharsis, welcome to the Digital Grin. :clap

The D300s update is really just a "freshening up" of a proven winner. The Nikon D300/D300s are wonderful cameras for their primary application of still images.

[angevin1]

Catharsis, welcome to the Digital Grin. :clap

The D300s update is really just a "freshening up" of a proven winner. The Nikon D300/D300s are wonderful cameras for their primary application of still images.
What Ziggy said is a good reminder. Nikon as per any manufacturer are playing to a paying audience. Reading blogs of folks that teach shooting schools/classes, and you see the D300 flew off of the shelves. Meaning all sorts of folks bought them, and meaning most of them are just taking snapshots of sorts. Before all this economic turn down stuff, lots of folks dropped coin on this camera and I'll bet that you nor me are part of their target demographic.

[Killjoy]

Gotta be honest here. I didn't read the whole thread, so this may have already been suggested.

Rent a 7D and some L glass for a weekend.
The minor expense will be so worth it, if you decide NOT to switch.
If you decide you still want to, a rental is only a drop in the bucket compared to switching camps.

[Ed_Hanratty]

I too didn't read the whole thread.

Wait a couple months. Nikon will release it's answer to the 7D. Then a couple months after that Canon will release something just a smudge better and then a couple months after that Nikon will release something a smudge better....etc...etc...etc...Glad I have an Olympus. Keeping up with new body technology sounds tiring and expensive.

[Qarik]

My mind is NOT made up and thus this thread. I want to convince myself to stick with Nikon, but it is very hard.

About the lenses, I thought the Canon 24-70 is comparable to Nikon 24-70. How about the 70-200/2.8?

The nikon 24-70mm is one of the legendary nikon lens. From my research the canon version is just does not stack up. The Nikon is literaly outperforms it's own prime lens in that zoom range.

The 14-24mm is the best WA ever made and canon can't offer anything to touch it.

The 70-200mmfor nikon is amazing as well. Also legendary. I am not quite sure about the canon offering.

The fact is that the nikon pro lens out perform the canon L series in most cases in the 14-200mm range (not sure about super telephot) imo. The D3, and D700, and D300 also are as good or better in many cases as well. Yeah..the pendulum swings back and forth. It appears teh pendulum has beein in the nikon ballpark for pro level equpiment imo for a while but with the 7D ..it may be starting to swing back towards the middle again.

[JimFuglestad]

Interesting. I just flipped from Canon to Nikon.

In the end, it's really just a steeplechase. You can change now, and then there's a subsequent Nikon release that makes you wish you didn't.

Both Nikon and Canon have excellent camera lines, and improving all the time.

You should choose what excites and inspires you. Results are more indicative of your passion, composition, and post-processing - none of which has anything to do with the camera you're using.

Jim

[ziggy53]

Gotta be honest here. I didn't read the whole thread, so this may have already been suggested.

Rent a 7D and some L glass for a weekend.
The minor expense will be so worth it, if you decide NOT to switch.
If you decide you still want to, a rental is only a drop in the bucket compared to switching camps.

Killjoy, welcome to the Digital Grin. :clap

Good idea.

[wildviper]

What has got me thinking in switching now is because of where I am in terms of photography. I literally have out grown the Nikon D70s(superb camera) and am looking for some specific things:

More Autofocus points and ideally all of them Cross type
Low Light focusing & Fast, precise Focusing
Low Low noise levels at ISO 1600.
Bracketing upto 5 shots - BKT +/-2 is good enough
No one has Auto Bracketing right? With one push of a button, it takes 5 pictures in a row??
Clear and precise lcd screen to review photos
Leveling
Weather & Dust proof - somewhat..not planning to go underwater or anything
Sensor cleaning
High Dynamic Range...upto 9 levels would be ideal
High megapixels ..at least 12+
at least 6 fps
Since I shoot mainly people, a camera that can reproduce nice tones
100% bright and clear viewfinder
Video that can record HDLooking at above, do you guys think the D300s meets the needs better or the 7D?

EDIT:

Custom buttons (at least 3) that I can program for whatever I want - For example, I can setup up "Auto Area Focus, Auto WB, Auto ISO, +/-EV Comp, Flash in TTL and so on". This is so that when my wife picks up the camera to shoot, she just presses one button and it is all customized for her and gets rid of all my "custom manual" settings quickly.
Custom White Balance that I can directly input the Kelvin values

[catspaw]

No one has Auto Bracketing right? With one push of a button, it takes 5 pictures in a row??

I'm pretty sure my other Nikon's have auto bracketing .... the D300s does have 7 fps. 8 fps with the batter pack/grip. It's not clear if the bracketing is single touch or not, but with a remote it's a bit of a moot point. You can at least get it done without shaking the camera.

You can find out more by reading the manual for the D300s directly. Online version is at:

http://nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/noprint/D300S_ENnoprint.pdf

enjoy! :D

[wildviper]

No one has Auto Bracketing right? With one push of a button, it takes 5 pictures in a row??

I'm pretty sure my other Nikon's have auto bracketing .... the D300s does have 7 fps. 8 fps with the batter pack/grip. It's not clear if the bracketing is single touch or not, but with a remote it's a bit of a moot point. You can at least get it done without shaking the camera.

You can find out more by reading the manual for the D300s directly. Online version is at:

http://nikonusa.com/pdf/manuals/noprint/D300S_ENnoprint.pdf

enjoy! :D

Thanx. I have seen this, but not sure if it is One push of a button to take 5 shots in a series. I think I would have to press the button 5 times in a row. This is fine, but for my workflow, it would be much faster if the camera auto did this for me.

I take over 1,000 pictures when I am on a particular shoot and it gets a bit tiring pressing the button(or the remote).

[catspaw]

well, according to p 124, you can use it in continuous mode which is only one press of the button. that work for ya?

[NikonsandVstroms]

I am not sure about you, but I feel let down by Nikon coming out with D300s. That was a cop-out and I was waiting for something that would blow the doors away. Alas, not to be. Don't get me wrong, the D300s is an amazing camera, but I was expecting more like 7D improvements.

Now looking at the 7D, I am more and more inclined to switch. I am not that heavily vested in my lenses, so that would not be a problem.

For me the 7D over 300s benefits are:

- Spot AF (that is sounding pretty awesome)
- Zone AF --- that also seems nice
- 18 megapixels (please refrain from the megapixels are not important and all..they are to me when I go to crop)

- Full 1080p movie mode with different FPS. (not sure what I will use it for, but I rather have it and learn than be left behind)

- Also, can take a shot while shooting a movie (pretty cool!)

- Dual layer metering system with luminosity and color

- Dual Digic processors can only mean good things with low noise(not a tech expert)

Just few of the things that I like.

How about you? Are Nikon users planning(or wishing) on switching? What do you like about the D300s?
-

I will start hear because IIRC Sony used 2 chips for the A900 because of the size of the files, pumping out 18MP images at 8FPS is a lot of data so splitting it up makes sense.

As has been mentioned the D300S is just a refresh to give it some more features that are now "standard" and don't require much R&D before the D400. (Remember D2Xs or D70s before the D3/D80)

As for the D300 I can not comment directly, but I do have a D700 and Fuji S5 (D200 body) so I know a lot about that type of body from Nikon. And the AF between the 700/300 is very similar, and in use it really is amazing. For the body/ergonomics, I love it and all the buttons/dials just work well and having physical controls will be a huge step up for you (my Nikon before those bodies was a D50).

For sports I used the D700 for a Ducati track day a few months back and with the 3D tracking it was easy, and the D300 has better coverage for the AF sensor.

And now the final point, it is technological leap frog, next year Nikon will come out with things Canon doesn't have and so on. From what I have seen/heard the 7D is an improvement on the status quo but not to the level the D3 and later D700 were. So if you have the glass and are not in a hurry just wait.

[Catharsis]

Thanks for the welcome.

Don't get me wrong I love my Nikon and the ergos for me are perfect, which is why I went that direction. I am just annoyed that after a year of Video they haven't found a good way to give manual control to the Video mode. Hopefully anyone that is going to pony up good money for a D300s is more knowledgable than your average Joe, that being the case could likely use manual control and as it sits now the video mode actually works against you in ways. I realize it's just an update but still.

They are nice Cameras and it boggles my mind the conditions I can now shoot in compared to 5 years ago, I was just practicing for Festivus.

Back to the 7D... I would do as others have said (if you can) and rent or borrow a Canon to see if you can adjust to the control layout, I've done that a few times but it still feels strange to me. This may not be a factor for you but... you could consider what those around you are shooting if they don't mind lending lenses, this can help if you know you will only need a lens for a special purpose. Just a thought.

[Harryb]

Hi Harry!

Hey Jim,

Long time since I've heard from ya. Hope all is well.

[Pindy]

Hey Y'all,

As a switcher (Nikon from Canon, man of Sleeping With The Enemy) and still having a very fond view of Canon cameras, I think the 7D is clearly Canon's attempt to do a D300/D300s. Up until now, any Canon DSLR save the 1D series were feature-limited not so much by price, but by tier, whereas Nikon has always had multi-tiered "pro-featured" cameras, viz the D200/D300; D700, D3, D3x. All Canon has done is to play to this particular market segment—and I applaud them—this camera looks more like the kind of thing I wished they had done before I switched. Now that they've got one foot in the ring, let's hope the same goes for the 5DmkIII, etc.

I don't think you can find the D300s lackluster compared to the 7D by too wide a margin—Canon just caught up to the D300 and added a few cool niceties and resolution. The D300, on the other hand, already had the vast majority of what's new in the 7D. If I didn't have an investment, I'd be happy with which ever one felt better in my hands. Seriously, you owe it to yourself to rent both the other for a week and see which one you gravitate towards.

Then there are the lenses, but if rumors are to be believed, the playing field will level off soon.

[insanefred]

Man you guys read too much Interweb.

When ever someone suggests switching systems because of the name of the processor makes me wanna pluck my nose hairs. :rolleyes

OP, there are other things you ought to consider, like the flash system, who has the lenses that will meet you needs, ergonomics, features, build and etc...


I briefly took a look through this thread and thought I saw you wanted environmental seals, I believe only the Canon 1D series really has this. the ##D and #D series has only has gimmicky (no real seals) "gapless" plastic body and seals on the CF and Battery doors only.

[bloomphotog]

Just to chime in again...

I looked at the 7D in the flesh and came away pretty impressed. If I were to stick with crop sensor bodies, the 7D makes an argument convincing enough that I would consider a switch. I was extremely impressed after my first hand 7D experience. Go check them out at the store and see which one makes you tick...

[catspaw]

Hey Y'all,

As a switcher (Nikon from Canon, man of Sleeping With The Enemy) and still having a very fond view of Canon cameras, I think the 7D is clearly Canon's attempt to do a D300/D300s. Up until now, any Canon DSLR save the 1D series were feature-limited not so much by price, but by tier, whereas Nikon has always had multi-tiered "pro-featured" cameras, viz the D200/D300; D700, D3, D3x. All Canon has done is to play to this particular market segment—and I applaud them—this camera looks more like the kind of thing I wished they had done before I switched. Now that they've got one foot in the ring, let's hope the same goes for the 5DmkIII, etc.

I don't think you can find the D300s lackluster compared to the 7D by too wide a margin—Canon just caught up to the D300 and added a few cool niceties and resolution. The D300, on the other hand, already had the vast majority of what's new in the 7D. If I didn't have an investment, I'd be happy with which ever one felt better in my hands. Seriously, you owe it to yourself to rent both the other for a week and see which one you gravitate towards.

Then there are the lenses, but if rumors are to be believed, the playing field will level off soon.

:clap :clap

I'd trust this man, good words! great advice.

[wildviper]

Hey Y'all,

As a switcher (Nikon from Canon, man of Sleeping With The Enemy) and still having a very fond view of Canon cameras, I think the 7D is clearly Canon's attempt to do a D300/D300s. Up until now, any Canon DSLR save the 1D series were feature-limited not so much by price, but by tier, whereas Nikon has always had multi-tiered "pro-featured" cameras, viz the D200/D300; D700, D3, D3x. All Canon has done is to play to this particular market segment—and I applaud them—this camera looks more like the kind of thing I wished they had done before I switched. Now that they've got one foot in the ring, let's hope the same goes for the 5DmkIII, etc.

I don't think you can find the D300s lackluster compared to the 7D by too wide a margin—Canon just caught up to the D300 and added a few cool niceties and resolution. The D300, on the other hand, already had the vast majority of what's new in the 7D. If I didn't have an investment, I'd be happy with which ever one felt better in my hands. Seriously, you owe it to yourself to rent both the other for a week and see which one you gravitate towards.

Then there are the lenses, but if rumors are to be believed, the playing field will level off soon.


I agree with you that the 7D is catching up on a lot what the D300 has had. However, the thing that has NOT been mentioned yet, is that the D300 was introduced in 2007! While it is mind boggling that Canon took 2 years to "catch up", I would think that the 7D would have "newer" technologies..more "knowledge", better "ISO Control" and so on...NO?

D300s, is just a re-hash and I have not heard that it uses any different chip than the older D300.

I am waiting for a store to have this in stock so I can try it out. I think Ergnomics and ISO are going to play a much more important roles than anything.

I am not sure I would listen to Nikon fanboys stating Nikkor lenses are superior than Canon and vice versa. They both are established camera and lens manufacturers....both are used by numerous professionals. Once you get to use the pro lenses, I would think the difference are minor.

[Qarik]

I agree with you that the 7D is catching up on a lot what the D300 has had. However, the thing that has NOT been mentioned yet, is that the D300 was introduced in 2007! While it is mind boggling that Canon took 2 years to "catch up", I would think that the 7D would have "newer" technologies..more "knowledge", better "ISO Control" and so on...NO?

D300s, is just a re-hash and I have not heard that it uses any different chip than the older D300.

I am waiting for a store to have this in stock so I can try it out. I think Ergnomics and ISO are going to play a much more important roles than anything.

I am not sure I would listen to Nikon fanboys stating Nikkor lenses are superior than Canon and vice versa. They both are established camera and lens manufacturers....both are used by numerous professionals. Once you get to use the pro lenses, I would think the difference are minor.

about the lenses..don't trust us "fam bois" do your own research. That said if your not shooting weddings or sports..the differences don't really matter.

[Moogle Pepper]

Then there are the lenses, but if rumors are to be believed, the playing field will level off soon.

I am definitely more interest in the lens upgrades than the camera bodies, though the 7D does look nice. So Canon is gonna retake the lens battle?

[Pindy]

I am definitely more interest in the lens upgrades than the camera bodies, though the 7D does look nice. So Canon is gonna retake the lens battle?

I'm thinking Nikon still has a ways to go (primes, constant-aperture zooms). They already have a killer triumvirate in f/2.8 land (14-24, 70-200 II and the 24-70), but they need to get back to making smaller lenses that make SLR photography a less Paparazzo experience, one of the reasons i'm very hesitant to buy and use the 24-70, great as it is.

[beetle8]

I have both and will be using both (D300 & 7D)

I bought the 7D strictly for video and have started buying old school Nikon manual primes that I am using with an adapter on the 7D
I did some test still in another thread, and some other work with both,

Bottom line if the video isn't part of the equation then the Nikon is the better camera. Focussing is far better the tracking and acuracy on the D300 is in my opinion clearly better.

As for ergonomics, I think they each have a great feel, and as a Nikon shooter I have been able to get comfortable with the 7D fairly quickly.

[travischance]

[quote=rookieshooter]See the "sleeping with the enemy" thread for that.

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=118613&highlight=enemy

As a Nikon guy I say stick with the D300 as it is a great camera, but if you're curious about the 7D rent one and see how it measures up.


Good advice.....

[NeilL]

All very interesting.

I'd add two factors that are probably contributing to differences between the two sets of gear, Canon and Nikon, namely -

1/ the 'Canon' photographer and the 'Nikon' photographer, meaning that broadly speaking owners in each camp likely have needs, preferences, priorities, tastes etc more in common with other shooters of the same brand, and it probably comes through in their photographs, be it ever so subtly. For example, my impression is that most of the photographs published at OneExposure are shot on Nikons, and OneExposure chooses photographs that have a distinctive arty treatment. My conclusion is that arty photographers of that kind are more likely to use Nikon and their photographs are going to be different also technically. I would go further and say that photographers who shoot MF and film are more likely to use Nikon digital. A bit like PC and Mac users. Almost different animals ; )) Therefore, their judgments of the gear are going to be different.

2/ the proprietary software in the gear. As technology is refined and refined, the hardware differences might narrow, but not so the software differences. I have said before, that because the manufacturers are in fact moving more quickly than technology in their rate of new gear releases (little if anything in the 7D, D300, D700 is groundbreakingly new), differences in the results produced by these two sets of gear are to a significant degree likely due to software development.

The differences/advances perceived by the consumer might be a kind of sleight of hand. That's how these companies keep the profits coming.

:dunno:lust:D

Neil

[ziggy53]

...

1/ the 'Canon' photographer and the 'Nikon' photographer, meaning that broadly speaking owners in each camp likely have needs, preferences, priorities, tastes etc more in common with other shooters of the same brand, and it probably comes through in their photographs, be it ever so subtly. For example, my impression is that most of the photographs published at OneExposure are shot on Nikons, and OneExposure chooses photographs that have a distinctive arty treatment. My conclusion is that arty photographers of that kind are more likely to use Nikon and their photographs are going to be different also technically. I would go further and say that photographers who shoot MF and film are more likely to use Nikon digital. A bit like PC and Mac users. Almost different animals ; )) Therefore, their judgments of the gear are going to be different.

...

Using Google as a counter, and just looking at the "Pictures" portion of OneExposure (site:1x.com/photos), and searching first by the term "Canon" and then searching for "Nikon" I found:

2390 mentions of the term "Canon" and 1950 mentions of the term "Nikon". Since most of the mentions come from the field "Equipment used:" I think it is reasonable to assume that there are a majority of the images posted are from Canon users. (There are some hits from the camera name used in the image title, but I don't think they skew the results terribly.)

You may do your own search and come to your own conclusions:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:1x.com/photos+%2Bcanon&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=site:1x.com/photos+%2Bnikon&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

... 2/ the proprietary software in the gear. As technology is refined and refined, the hardware differences might narrow, but not so the software differences. I have said before, that because the manufacturers are in fact moving more quickly than technology in their rate of new gear releases (little if anything in the 7D, D300, D700 is groundbreakingly new), differences in the results produced by these two sets of gear are to a significant degree likely due to software development.

...

Neil

There are tangible and measurable differences in every aspect of digital camera manufacture. Hardware, firmware and software have all progressed.

Imaging chips have moved from CCD to CMOS in less than a decade, and the size of photosites have shrunk because of serious changes in manufacturing, allowing ever greater density. Noise levels are actually gaining on a per unit area measure, despite the shrinkage. More electronics are now integrated into the imager than ever before and even the electronics at each photosite has increased. The latest chips are able to transfer 14 bits of data, compared to 12 bits just a couple of years ago, and it is increasingly more common to find more channels to strip the data from the chip, allowing ever greater transfer speeds and file sizes.

Image processors (still talking about hardware) are becoming more competent at handling the larger data sizes, the 14 bit structures, and at faster speeds with greater accuracy. The power handling has become more efficient allowing longer battery life with less heat dissipation.

Even the implementation of "video capture" in a CMOS imager is relatively new.

While it may not seem to be "groundbreaking" I can assure you that it is, and it will likely continue at the more-or-less steady rate of improvement for the foreseeable future.

Just the number of full-frame dSLRs that we have now versus 5 years ago is rather staggering, and that several are "reasonably priced" is nothing short of amazing. (MY previous employer bought a Kodak 460-DSC, 6 MPix dSLR in 1995 for the then (as now) rather staggering price of $16,000USD, and it was a crop 1.3x chip. To see FF 35mm format dSLRs under $3000 now seems like a dream come true. :clap )

[NeilL]

Impressive return, Ziggy, making it worthwhile for me to have posted my rubbish! :D

Yet, I think my points still stand, that there are Canon-Nikon biases at work, not only in comparisons and judgments about gear, but also in the samples those are based on, and that it might be advantageous to extend the terms of reference to other things than a new button for this here and a bigger number for something somewhere else.

As I think you know from my point of view in other threads about cameras and technology, I am at least as far from being a Luddite as you.

So, I don't wish to take away anything from what you have said, rather to supplement the terms this thread has been running on, and to keep in our minds that while for us cameras and gear are almost spiritual, for the bean-counting manufacturers they are a source of income.

As far as the OneExposure stats are concerned, the ratio published to unpublished is, my impression again, 1 to 200. Until I see figures to show otherwise, I stick by my impression that more published pics (as opposed to all pics, including those submitted to screening and critique, or in homepage galleries) are shot by Nikon than Canon. Until then, I say evidently more Nikon users make the OneExposure grade, and more Canon shooters are wannabes.

Neil (Canonized)

[gecko0]

Impressive return, Ziggy, making it worthwhile for me to have posted my rubbish! :D

Yet, I think my points still stand, that there are Canon-Nikon biases at work, not only in comparisons and judgments about gear, but also in the samples those are based on, and that it might be advantageous to extend the terms of reference to other things than a new button for this here and a bigger number for something somewhere else.

As I think you know from my point of view in other threads about cameras and technology, I am at least as far from being a Luddite as you.

So, I don't wish to take away anything from what you have said, rather to supplement the terms this thread has been running on, and to keep in our minds that while for us cameras and gear are almost spiritual, for the bean-counting manufacturers they are a source of income.

As far as the OneExposure stats are concerned, the ratio published to unpublished is, my impression again, 1 to 200. Until I see figures to show otherwise, I stick by my impression that more published pics (as opposed to all pics, including those submitted to screening and critique, or in homepage galleries) are shot by Nikon than Canon. Until then, I say evidently more Nikon users make the OneExposure grade, and more Canon shooters are wannabes.

Neil (Canonized)

to add to the discussion (and me being FAR out of my league with all of the experience most have here...)

I think the concept of X vs. Y company is gone and it's more of a comfort level for people. Technology in all of the advanced cameras from each manufacturer are so good now, I doubt the quality of the equipment is what is getting photos published...it comes down to the skill of the user. Things to consider would be the background of the photogs...why are they actually using Nikon? Why Canon? Is it because there is an actual appreciable difference in quality so great that they succeed? I feel it's more that they happen to stick with one system (in general...some switch back and forth, etc)...some may have been "born" into a particular system (ex. Dad used Nikon, so I use Nikon...Mom used Canon...so I use Canon...). The list could go on and on. Much like the PC vs. Mac debate. Many people use Macs because that is all they have ever known since school...some only use PCs because that's what they use in the office at work...

Just some things to think about. Great topic!

[NikonsandVstroms]

I am much more towards the Art end of the spectrum and shoot Nikon but not because of that. There are basically 2 reasons:

1) I got a Nikon FE from a family friend with 3 lenses for my first photo class.

2) There is a shop that specializes in Nikon gear and has tons of used glass a town over.

I have shot Canon though with my EOS 650 and a T70, both work fine....well the T70 is broken now, but the EOS 650 is fine and it is not because of the cameras I am not a Canon user. I had Nikon lenses, so when I wanted to have a motorized camera with a lit up light meter for concert work I moved to the N70 since instead of buying Canon glass.

Then I was hooked and soon after added a D50 and more and more lenses.

When I became disabled and before I was on proper medication for the pain I needed the lightest system as possible, and ended up with Olympus. This was a surprisingly easy switch since I am not one to tweak every feature, I need to know the basic camera functions, and shoot a few times to know how to adjust my style for its output.

Right now as long as it was ergonomically correct I could shoot with any system. The only ones that offer big differences in output that I have found are Olympus and Fuji for their out of camera JPEGs and the later's dynaminc range.

Now onto Ziggy's point about technology:

In the digitial SLR world we do have one limiting factor and that is our Cameras are still for the most part complex machines. Parts especially in the electronics are becoming cheaper but the mechanical bits will keep the price high.

The future in high quality and very affordable cameras is being seen in the current EP-1, and GF1. The lenses will still cost money but with so few mechanical parts (just a shutter and dust remover/IS) the electronics will fall and theoretically they will be very cheap in the years to come.

Right now they are charging a premium partially I am guessing because the initial buyers are willing to pay and also the R&D/minituization of some parts.

Now to break down the parts of these cameras:

The electronics/image processing parts will be a lot cheaper because a simpiler chipset will be needed. Remember your cell phone now has more computing power than your desktop did in 2000.

The LCD in the back will be much cheaper if it is even still a LCD. (And the new technologies are slimmer and use less energy)

Battery technology is a huge field right now so expect those to come down as well, and have more capacity.

And being such a large industry I am sure the manufacturing of imaging sensors like the other electronics will be improves/made cheaper to produce.

It will be up to the marketing departments of course but systems like m4/3 offer the chance to make bodies not much more than current compacts in the not too distant future.