Canon 7D

[dlplumer]

Canon 7D and possibly 60D due out 9/1

http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/09/08/19/canon.7d.leaks/

[Richard]

Canon 7D and possibly 60D due out 9/1

http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/09/08/19/canon.7d.leaks/

Ah, rumors. Such fun to speculate. If this article is accurate, then I don't understand at all the market Canon is targeting. Seems like a less capable 5DII at about the same price. :scratch Doesn't add up, IMO.

[Scott_Quier]

Ah, rumors. Such fun to speculate. If this article is accurate, then I don't understand at all the market Canon is targeting. Seems like a less capable 5DII at about the same price. :scratch Doesn't add up, IMO.
:agree - I don't see how anyone can hope to sell the 7D (with the rumored specifications) for the same price as a 5D2 - just doesn't pass the smell test.

[mercphoto]

:agree - I don't see how anyone can hope to sell the 7D (with the rumored specifications) for the same price as a 5D2 - just doesn't pass the smell test.
And the kit version includes the 28-135 instead of the 24-105L? Something just doesn't add up with this rumor...

[divamum]

I've been following this with interest and not a little amusement - the reader comments posted on canonrumors.com after each new leaklet are pretty funny ( I mean, I spend as much too-much-time on the 'net and imagining the perfect new camera as anybody, but really... some people clearly have WAAYYYYYYYyyYYYY too much time on their hands and take this all Terribly Terribly Seriously :giggle :lol4)

What's interesting in the article you've linked, Dan, is that it seems to be citing canonrumors.com conclusions as, well... conclusive. Rumorsites quoting rumorsites....

In any case, I'm definitely intrigued to see what finally emerges following all the speculation. It's pretty fun to watch the ride this year (last year was before the obsession started, so I didn't even know that there was anything to follow...... :rofl). I myself hope that there will be 60d AND 7d announcement, but we'll see, I guess!

[jmphotocraft]

If the 7D MSRP is $2700 per the Best Buy leak, then it has to be an APS-H, pro AF, 8-10fps, junior 1D. Just like how the 5D2 is a junior 1Ds. That is the only way it could command that price, and fit nicely between the Nikon D300s and D700. (Canon and Nikon like to stagger their bodies) If so, I'd be all over it.

[rookieshooter]

A Nikon D300 competitor makes the most sense as Canon has never offered something in between its consumer and pro cameras.

And judging by the latest pic of the top of it

http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/camerattop.jpg

It definitely looks like it's not a single digit model but more of a consumer/prosumer body, so who knows. Hopefully Canon shoots will get their wish and it'll be a standard body with crop sensor and 8 fps or so. However, the D300 is like $1,300 so this new body sounds expensive if $2,700 is the real price.

[jmphotocraft]

A Nikon D300 competitor makes the most sense as Canon has never offered something in between its consumer and pro cameras.

And judging by the latest pic of the top of it

It definitely looks like it's not a single digit model but more of a consumer/prosumer body, so who knows. Hopefully Canon shoots will get their wish and it'll be a standard body with crop sensor and 8 fps or so. However, the D300 is like $1,300 so this new body sounds expensive if $2,700 is the real price.

That top is basically a 5D2 top with an onboard flash and a couple extra buttons. This other leaked photo has been tested for fakeness and the consensus is that it's real:
http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4498/1250680167dsc00049.jpg

So chances are excellent that it's a single digit body.

And the Nikon D300 costs $1600 now, and the D300s will be $1800.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/specs/Nikon/nikon_d300s.asp

An APS-H (1.3x crop) pro AF, 8-10fps, optional vertical grip "1D Lite" would fill the big hole in Canon's lineup between the 1D and 50D, and it would abide by Canon/Nikon's unspoken agreement to not compete directly with each others' sub-pro bodies.

[VT50]

My hopes are if rumors of the 7D are true it will likely drive down the price of the 5DMKII making it within reach of the average joe amateur like me. I think I've out grown my trusty 40D and ready to make the move on up!!!

[chrisjohnson]

My hopes are if rumors of the 7D are true it will likely drive down the price of the 5DMKII making it within reach of the average joe amateur like me. I think I've out grown my trusty 40D and ready to make the move on up!!!

More likely that the 5D will be able to migrate up in price over time.

I can imagine with your 2.8 70-200 IS lens that you are tempted to go for a more appropriate body. Not that there is anything wrong with a 40D but I would be curious to see the difference with the lens on a full frame camera.

[jmphotocraft]

My hopes are if rumors of the 7D are true it will likely drive down the price of the 5DMKII making it within reach of the average joe amateur like me. I think I've out grown my trusty 40D and ready to make the move on up!!!

If the 7D is a budget full frame camera, you might get your wish, which is why I don't think that will happen.

I think it's going to be a junior 1D, much like how the 5D2 is a junior 1Ds. So the 7D and 5D2 would be on the same price level. That is a hole in Canon's lineup that needs filling badly. It would finally be a response to the Nikon D300 and D700

[VT50]

If the 7D is a budget full frame camera, you might get your wish, which is why I don't think that will happen.

I think it's going to be a junior 1D, much like how the 5D2 is a junior 1Ds. So the 7D and 5D2 would be on the same price level. That is a hole in Canon's lineup that needs filling badly. It would finally be a response to the Nikon D300 and D700

Hmm...good point. Maybe I'm holding out for a miracle.

[divamum]

Hmm...good point. Maybe I'm holding out for a miracle.

The most recent rumors (http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/08/upcoming-releases-cr3/) are pretty impressive, if they are indeed close to accurate.

Sadly, I think it will be out of my price league no matter what it is, and it looks like a 60D isn't going to appear until next year. That said, by next year I might have a little more money to burn... :D

[Scott_Quier]

The most recent rumors (http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/08/upcoming-releases-cr3/) are pretty impressive, if they are indeed close to accurate.

Sadly, I think it will be out of my price league no matter what it is, and it looks like a 60D isn't going to appear until next year. That said, by next year I might have a little more money to burn... :D
I wouldn't expect a 60D until next year, if past Canon production is anything to go by. I think the 50D came out shortly before Oct last year and the xxD, I think tend to come out on an 18-month cycle.

[Moogle Pepper]

I don't think that rumor mill is very accurate.

It is supposively full frame but that link says that it would be: APS-C (1.6 Crop)

Something lost in translation here? :dunno

[Zanotti]

I don't think that rumor mill is very accurate.

It is supposively full frame but that link says that it would be: APS-C (1.6 Crop)

Something lost in translation here? :dunno


It appears that in these changes Canon is also changing the naming paradigm.

The upgraded 50D is not the 60D, but the 7D. This is why it seems confusing to see a crop framed improved 5DMII, because its not and improved 5D, but an improved 50D.

Canon looks to be retreating from the megapixel race and going to an improved performance race, one that suits me just fine.

Z

[Scott_Quier]

It appears that in these changes Canon is also changing the naming paradigm.

The upgraded 50D is not the 60D, but the 7D. This is why it seems confusing to see a crop framed improved 5DMII, because its not and improved 5D, but an improved 50D.

Canon looks to be retreating from the megapixel race and going to an improved performance race, one that suits me just fine.

Z
:nod :agree Me Too!!!

[divamum]

Well, there don't seem to be official details yet - from what I'm reading, there still seems to be speculation over whether it's going to be FF or APS-C and what the price-point will be. I guess we'll find out in the next couple of weeks! :thumb

[rookieshooter]

And it is looking real now.

EOS 7D Specs
"EOS 7D"

"EOS 7D"

-18mp
- dual digic 4
- 8 fps
- 19 af points
- ISO 100-6400 (L & H1 & H2)
- 63 metering zones
- 100% viewfinder
- Horizon Help Viewfinder
- 3″ VGA LCD
- FullHD Video

In USA: $1699 Body
In Canada: $1999 Body

specs on this poster: http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/mobile01-a5dec84018ed024d52c8d6a1a3361c93.jpg

[Cuong]

And it is looking real now....
specs on this poster: http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/mobile01-a5dec84018ed024d52c8d6a1a3361c93.jpgLooks like a great Xmas present for any shutterbug.

Cuong

[dmeiselman]

I've been trying to figure out what market Canon is gunning for with the 7D.
With 1D-like AF and metering, but a crop sensor, are we talking about semi-pro sports shooters? Wildlife photographers? Photojournalists? It's definitely an interesting product, and if the 1700 dollar price tag is accurate, a magnificent deal for what it does.
I bought my 40D because it was a mini 1DIII, looks like it's going to be replaced.

[rookieshooter]

It's a mid-range sports camera basically. Crop sensor for extra reach, high FPS and decent AF system.

I'm sure a lot of canon shooters will be extremely happy about this arrival!

[divamum]

Finally some more concrete info! The speculations have been amusing, but reality is even more intriguing :D

If the price stays in that region, has killer high ISO performance and it really is a crop (a few days agoI read some speculations that it might be ff or 1.3 that accepts EFS lenses, although that now seems to be debunked by the further trickle of information), it might well be on my list after the initial price starts to come down a little bit.... :wink

[dlplumer]

http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/08/28/canon.eos.7d.box.and.price/

http://www.canonrumors.com/2009/08/odds-ends-9/

[swintonphoto]

I am not sure why someone would be surprised at Canon making a higher end APS-C sports shooter camera. I have always been a fan of crop cameras for sports anyways - gets much better reach and wider DOF when people are moving making sure you get the focus just right. If I was a Canon shooter I would only use APS-C sensor cameras for sports. Why would a sports shooter not want the extra reach? If noise is well controlled the FF does not seem like a better option for sports. That's just my opinion, but lugging around huge gear with lenses that don't have near the reach on FF compared to the crop sensors just doesn't make a lot of sense to me. I have done a ton of sports shooting and I regularly need 400mm length. Much easier to achieve in a crop camera. I hae frankly been surprised that Canon didn't offer a higher level sports camera in the crop format. Especially since the newer APS-C sensors are doing so much better in the noise category. Looks like this camera is going to be a real winner.
I also think the fact they chose to call it 7D is to get some people to accept the idea that a crop sensor camera can be considered a true "Pro" camera. This is not made just for amateurs.

[Moogle Pepper]

If this is true, I know what my 2nd body is going to be! :D

[NeilL]

Finally some more concrete info! The speculations have been amusing, but reality is even more intriguing :D

If the price stays in that region, has killer high ISO performance and it really is a crop (a few days agoI read some speculations that it might be ff or 1.3 that accepts EFS lenses, although that now seems to be debunked by the further trickle of information), it might well be on my list after the initial price starts to come down a little bit.... :wink

DM your recent posts have had me ROTFL!!! You have become a real GEEK!!! I've noticed the metamorphosis happening for a while. Or had you merely been hiding that particular light under a bushel up till now?:D:D:D

Neil

[divamum]

DM your recent posts have had me ROTFL!!! You have become a real GEEK!!! I've noticed the metamorphosis happening for a while. Or had you merely been hiding that particular light under a bushel up till now?:D:D:D

Neil

oooOOOOoooh nOOOOooo.... :smo my secret has been discovered!!!!

'Tis true... as long as it doesn't involve any actual math, I am a closet geek, although very much on a "need to know" rather than universal basis. I usually hide it well, but occasionally my inner techie comes out to play.... :D :rofl :lol

As for following this particular story, however, it's with intent rather than idle interest: even when I bought my Xsi last year I knew that it would either be a stepping-stone body, or ultimately become a second body. I didn't really want the 50d (too similar to the 40d, which is already extremely similar in processor and performance to the Xsi), the 5dII is WAY out of my price league, and so I've just been waiting and watching in the hope a choice would present itself. Plus, I finally have some WORK booked for the next few months, so I might actually have some money again (now let's hope these contracts don't actually get cancelled - 3 out of 4 booked gigs went south this year, so it has been pretty bad. All of my camera-gear purchases this year were funded by photographic gig-lets and/or sale of existing gear to fund them.....)

[NeilL]

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Your development in all kinds of ways here has been amazing to see. And it's obvious you are a survivor. I wish you all the best, and I hope those gigs stay your side of the border and you are able to get the camera of your dreams, when the manufacturers get around to it!

I have discovered a similar geeky side to my own nature since getting into photography, and I enjoy the gear and the tech side of things for their own sake, as much as the actual taking of pictures.

Take care.

Neil

[jmphotocraft]

1. 18MP APSC CMOS
2. Dual DIGIC 4
3. 8 FPS (94 FINE JPEG/ 15 RAW)
4. New eight-directional double cross central AF point, total 19 cross AF points
5. ISO 100-6400 (Exp 12800)
6. 100% 1.0X magni VF with intelligent display, horizon assist
7. New iFCL metering (exposure and colour)
8. 3′ 920K Version II LCD, 160 deg viewing
9. Full HD video (w external mic input n HDMI output)
10. Live view w Face-priority AF
11. New switch for Live View/Video mode
12. Aero-dynamic body design, metallic shutter sound, 150K shutter life
13. New 24mm built-in flash, supports EOS intelligent speedlite system
14. A.L.O
15. P.I.C
16. Picture style
17. EOS Integrated Dust Removal system

http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/8689636.jpg

I can't decide if this should replace my 1D2N.

[divamum]

:rofl:rofl:rofl

Your development in all kinds of ways here has been amazing to see. And it's obvious you are a survivor. I wish you all the best, and I hope those gigs stay your side of the border and you are able to get the camera of your dreams, when the manufacturers get around to it!

I have discovered a similar geeky side to my own nature since getting into photography, and I enjoy the gear and the tech side of things for their own sake, as much as the actual taking of pictures.

Take care.

Neil

Thanks for the very kind words, Neil :lust

Back to the subject at hand... every trickle of info about the 7D makes it sound more and more intriguing! Hopefully tomorrow some of the magazines and pundits will start previewing - am very interested to hear the reality of this new beast! :thumb

[dlplumer]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10322059-1.html

[Abiciriderback]

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10322059-1.html

I'm thinking this AF is going to be a watered downed version of the new 1D Mark IV imminent in the not so far future. Noticed 7D AF as no assist points. Thinking Mark IV 18MP this AF with Assist points.
Think I'll just keep my 1D Mark III until the IV appears in early 2010

Ray Still

[Candid Arts]

Noticed no one has posted this link yet...I wonder why?:dunno:scratch

Straight from Canon's Website...:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19356#ModelTechSpecsAct

[NeilL]

Noticed no one has posted this link yet...I wonder why?:dunno:scratch

Straight from Canon's Website...:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19356#ModelTechSpecsAct

Didn't see mention of processor in these specs? Did you?

N

[Richard]

Didn't see mention of processor in these specs? Did you?

N

Dual Digic 4 processors--curiously not mentioned in the specs tab, but it's the first entry in the features tab.

[NeilL]

Dual Digic 4 processors--curiously not mentioned in the specs tab, but it's the first entry in the features tab.

Goodoh, R! Yes, that's what was being said everywhere else. Curious it didn't show in the specs on Canon's site, yes.

Man, that's a power of processing, eh?! Must be for the video, do you think?

I will buy the next upgrade which doesn't have video. Why pay for that baggage I will never use, in $ and camera resources. I'd much rather get a better still image - higher sensitivity, lower noise, higher resolution, better dynamic range, better AF, AE, and so on. That's where I want to put my $

Does Leica produce these +video monstrosities?

Best.

Neil

[Richard]

Man, that's a power of processing, eh?! Must be for the video, do you think?

Dunno. If it's like the 1D series, the primary use would be for supporting high speed burst shooting with capture to two cards simultaneously if so desired.

[AlbertZeroK]

Does it support AF Micro Adjustment? One would think so, but I don't see it in the specs anywhere and the manual is not avialble for download yet.

[Manfr3d]

Does it support AF Micro Adjustment? One would think so, but I don't see it in the specs anywhere and the manual is not avialble for download yet.
Interesting question. The 5D II does not have it in it's specs online either, a good sign?

[chrisjohnson]

Interesting question. The 5D II does not have it in it's specs online either, a good sign?

With the amount of processing power on board, the 7D should be able to figure this out for itself - or is micro adjustment more a question of user preference?

[Scott_Quier]

With the amount of processing power on board, the 7D should be able to figure this out for itself - or is micro adjustment more a question of user preference?
Conceptually, the AF Microadjustment minimizes the difference in the lengths of the light path to the focusing aperatus and the sensor aperatus - remembering that the light takes a path seperate from that to the sensor during the focusing operation. It involves taking images at various AF MA points and reviewing the results to determine at what AF MA point is critical focus most closely attained.

I can see, from a conceptual POV, that the camera should be able to do this given a standardized focusing target. This would probably be something that, in this case, Canon would release/sell - and for way toooo much $$$ :D. Conceptually, you point the camera/lens combination at the target, press the magic sequence of buttons and menu selections, press the shutter button and the camera takes two looks at the target. The first look would be during the focus operation and the second would be an analysis of the resulting RAW data. Then the processors would compare the two images, flip a couple switches, make some adjustments, and alert the user to do it again for confirmation of correct adjustment. The rub would be in the first look - with what would the camera look at the target during the first look to generate/save the data needed for the third step - the analysis. But, that would still be pretty cool.

[Cameron]

Interesting question. The 5D II does not have it in it's specs online either, a good sign?

The hands-on preview at dpreview lists AF microadjustment under custom function III-5:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page12.asp

Rob Galbraith's review mentions it:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239-10240

:thumb

[NeilL]

Conceptually, the AF Microadjustment minimizes the difference in the lengths of the light path to the focusing aperatus and the sensor aperatus - remembering that the light takes a path seperate from that to the sensor during the focusing operation. It involves taking images at various AF MA points and reviewing the results to determine at what AF MA point is critical focus most closely attained.

I can see, from a conceptual POV, that the camera should be able to do this given a standardized focusing target. This would probably be something that, in this case, Canon would release/sell - and for way toooo much $$$ :D. Conceptually, you point the camera/lens combination at the target, press the magic sequence of buttons and menu selections, press the shutter button and the camera takes two looks at the target. The first look would be during the focus operation and the second would be an analysis of the resulting RAW data. Then the processors would compare the two images, flip a couple switches, make some adjustments, and alert the user to do it again for confirmation of correct adjustment. The rub would be in the first look - with what would the camera look at the target during the first look to generate/save the data needed for the third step - the analysis. But, that would still be pretty cool.

Fantastic, Scott!:D:D:D I think you should enter this for the Nebula Prize! :wink:rofl

N

[NeilL]

Dunno. If it's like the 1D series, the primary use would be for supporting high speed burst shooting with capture to two cards simultaneously if so desired.

Dunno, too. But the continuous-burst specs are not too different to the 40D to need dual processors, one might think???

N

[codrus]

Dunno, too. But the continuous-burst specs are not too different to the 40D to need dual processors, one might think???

N

You need to look at the image size as well as the frame rate because it takes more power to process larger images. I believe the 7D and 50D use the same chip, but the 7D has two of them. 18Mpixel * 8 fps = 144Mpixels/second on the 7D, 15Mpixel * 6 fps on the 50D is 90Mpixels/second. They're getting 160% of the 50D's performance using two chips, which suggests the bottleneck is probably either in the memory bus or perhaps the mechanical mirror/shutter bits.

The 40D is the same frame rate as the 50D, but has only 2/3 as many pixels, and uses an older generation chip I believe.

--Ian

[Manfr3d]

The hands-on preview at dpreview lists AF microadjustment under custom function III-5:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/page12.asp

Rob Galbraith's review mentions it:
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-10042-10239-10240

:thumb

but not the first specs on dpreview and canon site ... and thats what we curently have for the 7d as well

[Robinivich]

Dunno, too. But the continuous-burst specs are not too different to the 40D to need dual processors, one might think???

N40D with 10 megapixels X 6.5 fps = 65 megapixels/second
7D with 18 megapixels X 8 fps = 144 megapixels/second

So more than double the processing demand vs 40D, though the same isn't as true of the 50D: 15 X 6.5 = 97.5 megapixels/sec

The 7D has actually quite a bit more throughput than either mark III, both of which do around 100 megapixels/s

This camera sounds like every bird photographer's wildest dream come true, weather sealed, high frame rate, high pixel count APS-C camera with seemingly pro autofocus (with micro adjust).

[Zanotti]

I really wonder if availability will be an issue this time. It seemed as if getting a 5DMII was difficult for over 6 months after introduction, driving many to make alternate choices.

Has there been any indication of availability and production rates?

Anything more than the 5DMII?

Did the success of the 5D surprise them?



Z

[Ric Grupe]

The 40D is the same frame rate as the 50D

Nope!

40D is slightly faster.

[kdog]

My guess is you can count on serious availability problems for many months after shipping begins. It might not be as bad as the 5DMII whose availability problems I believe were exacerbated by problems with their battery vendor. But there is clearly going to be a huge demand for this camera.

PS: Thank goodness it uses the same battery as the 5DMII. :thumb

Cheers,
-joel

[Nikolai]

PS: Thank goodness it uses the same battery as the 5DMII. :thumb

You don't say...

[kdog]

You don't say...

Pretty much justifies the purchase right there, doesn't it? :D

[Nikolai]

Pretty much justifies the purchase right there, doesn't it? :Dpretty much, yeah:-)

[divamum]

Alright, you two, just rub it in for those of us who have to figure out where the $ are coming from before we can start to justify it ... ::nono:):

I'm imagining the conversation now..... "But honey, you don't REALLY want me having to carry that heavy, cumbersome STE2 around with me every time I shoot, now do you? I mean it's great when you can come on a shoot with me to act as bag man, but just think how much less HELP I'll need if I don't have to have all that HEAVY EXTRA LIGHTING EQUIPMENT since the 7D has it all built in. No question about it. I really NEED to add a 2nd body to cut down on transmitter weight."

Oh yeah. I can seriously see THAT working :rofl

(note to those who may be wondering: yes, I am kidding. I have 100% spousal support in endeavours photographic and, in fact, it's me who keeps the books so I know exactly how much we can and can't justify spending! Which is why I have to wait on this one for a little while, but I am already saving.... :D)

[Qarik]

Alright, you two, just rub it in for those of us who have to figure out where the $ are coming from before we can start to justify it ... ::nono:):

I'm imagining the conversation now..... "But honey, you don't REALLY want me having to carry that heavy, cumbersome STE2 around with me every time I shoot, now do you? I mean it's great when you can come on a shoot with me to act as bag man, but just think how much less HELP I'll need if I don't have to have all that HEAVY EXTRA LIGHTING EQUIPMENT since the 7D has it all built in. No question about it. I really NEED to add a 2nd body to cut down on transmitter weight."

Oh yeah. I can seriously see THAT working :rofl

(note to those who may be wondering: yes, I am kidding. I have 100% spousal support in endeavours photographic and, in fact, it's me who keeps the books so I know exactly how much we can and can't justify spending! Which is why I have to wait on this one for a little while, but I am already saving.... :D)

haha..I didn't even know that wagging finger icon existed! lol It's about time canon got on board commander mode. Divamum you are so addicted to photography..it really shows. Time to get your kid on the corner with lemonade stand...moomy needs off camer TTL.

[Ann McRae]

:drums

I am sooooo ON this bandwagon.

20d your replacement has arrived!

ann

[Nikolai]

Alright, you two, just rub it in for those of us who have to figure out where the $ are coming from before we can start to justify it ... ::nono:):

Me? $ coming from? Man, I'm UE, and I'm happy if my CA UE check doesn't bounce, like it did for some...:cry
But 7D... it's otra cosa aparte...:wink

[Moogle Pepper]

Me? $ coming from? Man, I'm UE, and I'm happy if my CA UE check doesn't bounce, like it did for some...:cry
But 7D... it's otra cosa aparte...:wink

I await your review and amazing work with this! I would love to get one, but I will wait. Definitely. I must be patient ... I need to sell my 30D, books, texts, kidneys...

[divamum]

haha..I didn't even know that wagging finger icon existed! lol It's about time canon got on board commander mode. Divamum you are so addicted to photography..it really shows. Time to get your kid on the corner with lemonade stand...moomy needs off camer TTL.

The really sad thing? I already HAVE off-camera TTL via my STE2... :rofl

Me? $ coming from? Man, I'm UE, and I'm happy if my CA UE check doesn't bounce, like it did for some...
But 7D... it's otra cosa aparte...

You've got your priorities right, dude :thumb :lol3

[codrus]

Nope!

40D is slightly faster.

The rating is slightly faster, but, as I understand it, that's due to a change in the way they measured it. :)

In any event, they both round to 6.

--Ian

[codrus]

I await your review and amazing work with this! I would love to get one, but I will wait. Definitely. I must be patient ... I need to sell my 30D, books, texts, kidneys...

Kidneys? From what I read on CNN, that's good for $20K, so you should be aiming higher than a 7D! :)

--Ian

[Robinivich]

The rating is slightly faster, but, as I understand it, that's due to a change in the way they measured it. :)

In any event, they both round to 6.

--IanYeah, it's all the same mechanism, but canon got caught cheating a little on the 40D spec sheet, since the camera only gets to 6.5 fps when you've got a super fast shutter speed set, the aperture doesn't have to stop down, and the planets align just right. So when it came time for the 50D specs they backed off a little... :D

[dlplumer]

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DA.HTM

[kdog]

There's a more thorough review here: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/

It's 14 pages long, so make sure you keep hitting Next to see all the pages. Or, you can go directly to a page by a dropdown menu near the top.

Regards,
-joel

[Candid Arts]

There's a more thorough review here: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos7d/

It's 14 pages long, so make sure you keep hitting Next to see all the pages. Or, you can go directly to a page by a dropdown menu near the top.

Regards,
-joel

Yeah I'm in the middle of reading this. This camera is amazing and I'm almost tempted to go put a pre-order deposit down at the local camera shop... This...or new lens...pocket wizards...lighting equipment... Hmmm...

[Moogle Pepper]

Kidneys? From what I read on CNN, that's good for $20K, so you should be aiming higher than a 7D! :)

--Ian

Hey 7D and tons of Glass! :rofl

[chrisjohnson]

No way would I sell a kidney for this camera although there are many features to like (at least from reading the spec). Top of my list would be:
- better metering
- 18 megapixel, for those times I want to crop seriously
- better viewfinder, bigger and more sensible buttons.

Don't have a problem with auto focus on my 40D, so don't know about that.

I would worry about the video - seems too low frame rate for PAL in HD. Not that I use video on my DSLR, but you never know.

Seems to be aimed at the rich amateur - "prosumer". Lots of specification stretch that most of us will never use. People who like to tick boxes will love it.

I don't suppose the real pros will be tempted - the 5D and 1D have too much going for them. Plus, if it is your business, you can write a lot of the price off against tax.

I like the fact that 7D probably ups the value of my 17-55 lens - not that I intend to sell - because it is a vote for EFS.

Launching such a product in the middle of a recession looks risky. How many bird photographers are out there? As my mother would say, the 7D is likely for people with more money than sense

[Cuong]

... Launching such a product in the middle of a recession looks risky. How many bird photographers are out there? As my mother would say, the 7D is likely for people with more money than senseI'd like to be one of these people, but since I'm not, I won't be selling my kidney either.:D

Cuong

[Moogle Pepper]

I'd like to be one of these people, but since I'm not, I won't be selling my kidney either.:D

Cuong

Lame!! Where is the dedication!! :rofl Just kidding. You gotta do what you gotta do. I won't be selling a kidney, for sure, but I would like to pick one of these cameras up.

[Cuong]

Lame!! Where is the dedication!! :rofl Just kidding. You gotta do what you gotta do. I won't be selling a kidney, for sure, but I would like to pick one of these cameras up.Actually, this is THE camera I've been waiting for since the disappointing 50D came out. Since I'm not one of those people with more $$$ than sense, I'll have to find a way to get it eventually.

Cuong

[ziggy53]

I believe that the Canon 7D is a camera to fill the gap between the xxD series and the 1D series camera lines "and" it is a more direct response to the Nikon D300/D300s models.

As such, I think it will find a ready audience.

I do not believe that the AF system has the same sensitivity of the Canon 1D/1Ds series cameras so they will prevail for night and indoor sports and action for the professional market.

Hopefully, in the not too distant future, we will also see an upgraded 1D MKIII as well as an updated 1Ds MKIII. Likely additions will be extra ISO ratings as well as the latest imager technology (gapless lenses), newer image processors (Digic IV) and larger shot buffers.

[Nikolai]

I believe that the Canon 7D is a camera to fill the gap between the xxD series and the 1D series camera lines "and" it is a more direct response to the Nikon D300/D300s models.

As such, I think it will find a ready audience.

I do not believe that the AF system has the same sensitivity of the Canon 1D/1Ds series cameras so they will prevail for night and indoor sports and action for the professional market.

Hopefully, in the not too distant future, we will also see an upgraded 1D MKIII as well as an updated 1Ds MKIII. Likely additions will be extra ISO ratings as well as the latest imager technology (gapless lenses), newer image processors (Digic IV) and larger shot buffers.

Which kinda leaves the following question open: is there gonna abe 60D? :scratch

[kdog]

Which kinda leaves the following question open: is there gonna abe 60D? :scratch
:nah I think you're looking at it.

[Ric Grupe]

:nah I think you're looking at it.

Absolutely!

I'll wait until I hear from users about the response of the AF before jumping at this.

[ziggy53]

Which kinda leaves the following question open: is there gonna abe 60D? :scratch

My own guess is that there will be a slimmed down version of the 7D, probably called the 70D, that will be single image processor driven and slower frame rate, but with the same basic imager with fewer readout channels. It will have similar environmental seals as the 50D and probably the same battery as well. Probably many months away.

[divamum]

My own guess is that there will be a slimmed down version of the 7D, probably called the 70D, that will be single image processor driven and slower frame rate, but with the same basic imager with fewer readout channels. It will have similar environmental seals as the 50D and probably the same battery as well. Probably many months away.

Which would not necessarily be a bad thing for those of us who don't need the fast fps but would like some of the other goodies the 7d is offering .... :D

[Nikolai]

So basically Canon is going to have the following line-up:

x00D - entry level (under $800)
x0D - prosumer (under $1500)
xD - low end pro (under $3K)
1Dx - high end pro (sky is the limit)

:scratch

[Awais Yaqub]

latest imager technology (gapless lenses)

What is that Ziggy ?

[Nikolai]

What is that Ziggy ?
no unused space between sensels (as in 50D, but better)
http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS7D/Images/whatsnew_microlenses.jpg

[Ric Grupe]

So basically Canon is going to have the following line-up:
x00D - entry level (under $800)
x0D - prosumer (under $1500)
xD - low end pro (under $3K)
1Dx - high end pro (sky is the limit):scratch

Looks like you're way off on this, Nik.

Where does the 5D MKII or 1DMKIII...full frame prosumer and 1.3 crop pro bodies fit in here?

[Manfr3d]

Manuals are online:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19356#DownloadDetailAct

The camera has micro adjustment with C.Fn III-5 (p. 211).

[ziggy53]

So basically Canon is going to have the following line-up:

x00D - entry level (under $800)
x0D - prosumer (under $1500)
xD - low end pro (under $3K)
1Dx - high end pro (sky is the limit)

:scratch

Almost. The 1D and 1Ds series cameras are both professional level, just designed for different applications.
The 1D/1D MKII/1D MKIIN/1D MKIII are the "sports/action" professional cameras.
The 1Ds/1Ds MKII/1Ds MKIII are the "studio" grade professional cameras, also for landscape, portraiture, etc. Some professionals also use the 1Ds cameras for sports/action when they don't need the rapid frame rate of the 1D cameras because in other methods of responsiveness they are identical. (AF speed, metering speed and accuracy, shutter recycle speed and mirror blackout.)

Canon EOS, 5D/5D MKII and 7D are the high end "prosumer" models.

Canon EOS, 10D/20D/30D/40D/50D are the lower end "prosumer" models.

Canon EOS Digital Rebel, 300D/350D/400D/450D/500D are the "consumer" models (formerly entry level as well).

Canon EOS Digital Rebel, 1000D is the "entry level" model.

[studio1972]

I always think this obsession with what is pro/prosumer/consumer is a load of nonsense TBH. I've seen some great photos from a 350d and some total crap from a 1DS mark 3. You can certainly use the prosumer bodies for professional work as they are robust and reliable and produce great results with the right lens. It's the brain behind the camera that matters most of all, of course.

[Ric Grupe]

Ziggy...are you saying that a 60D (or whatever they choose to call it) is a possibility?:scratch

[Ric Grupe]

It's the brain behind the camera that matters most of all, of course

Those brains need cameras to match the intellect.

[ziggy53]

Ziggy...are you saying that a 60D (or whatever they choose to call it) is a possibility?:scratch

I would bet on it. There is enough new technology in the 7D that they will leverage some of it into a lesser version just to recoup some R&D costs. The timing will depend partly on the global market and global economy. If the market isn't there, they will just run production longer on the 50D and drop its prices a bit..

[Duckys54]

no unused space between sensels (as in 50D, but better)
http://a.img-dpreview.com/previews/CanonEOS7D/Images/whatsnew_microlenses.jpg

So how does this affect the image capture process? Sharper? Less noise? Diffraction solving? etc.

[ziggy53]

So how does this affect the image capture process? Sharper? Less noise? Diffraction solving? etc.

The major benefit is more closely packed photo sites with more accurately focused light at each site which should translate to the same sensitivity even though less light falls onto each site. This means more pixels with no more noise (theoretically). It can also mean less light scatter, which should yield better resistance to super-saturating neighboring sites.

[leebase]

I've been trying to figure out what market Canon is gunning for with the 7D.

Nikon defined that market with the D200 and REALLY lept ahead of Canon with the D300. This is Canon's reply -- and about time!

Lee

[brascothom]

Hi Everyone..

I have seen the specs on the 7D, and am curious about wireless flash control. I have a 40D and 430EX flashes. I occasionally use the 580 as master to fire the 430 as slave in 2-flash setups. For reasons of weight, versatility having both flashes off camera, rotating the camera to portrait and not having the flash to the side, I was considering getting the wireless flash transmitter ST-E2. Does the 7D incorporate that functionality, with the ability to set up flash groups and ratios? That would make it even more attractive to me.

[ziggy53]

Hi Everyone..

I have seen the specs on the 7D, and am curious about wireless flash control. I have a 40D and 430EX flashes. I occasionally use the 580 as master to fire the 430 as slave in 2-flash setups. For reasons of weight, versatility having both flashes off camera, rotating the camera to portrait and not having the flash to the side, I was considering getting the wireless flash transmitter ST-E2. Does the 7D incorporate that functionality, with the ability to set up flash groups and ratios? That would make it even more attractive to me.

Brascothom, welcome to the Digital Grin. :clap

While the 7D does appear to incorporate the first "Integrated Speedlite Transmitter" in a Canon camera, there are very few details other than "three groups of four flashes" control which sounds encouraging. There are no specifications yet (that I could find) regarding the range or angular coverage of the new flash transmitter so thinking that this in-camera capability will somehow replace the ST-E2 flash transmitter are somewhat premature.

If you are otherwise happy with your 40D then the ST-E2 is still fairly economical versus a new camera body.

[divamum]

Brascothom, welcome to the Digital Grin. :clap

While the 7D does appear to incorporate the first "Integrated Speedlite Transmitter" in a Canon camera, there are very few details other than "three groups of four flashes" control which sounds encouraging. There are no specifications yet (that I could find) regarding the range or angular coverage of the new flash transmitter so thinking that this in-camera capability will somehow replace the ST-E2 flash transmitter are somewhat premature.

If you are otherwise happy with your 40D then the ST-E2 is still fairly economical versus a new camera body.

The manual is now online at Canon....
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19356#DownloadDetailAct

Wireless flash info starts at p119. The flash-controller setup looks similar to the STE2 (or probably more like the 580ex since it controls 3 groups). Same ratios etc.

[ziggy53]

The manual is now online at Canon....
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=139&modelid=19356#DownloadDetailAct

Wireless flash info starts at p119. The flash-controller setup looks similar to the STE2 (or probably more like the 580ex since it controls 3 groups). Same ratios etc.

Thanks for that link. :thumb

While the Wireless Flash Transmitter specifications are still not listed in the specifications section, they are indicated in the descriptive section and in the diagrams.

It appears that the rated distances for the wireless flash operation for the 7D as controller are:

10m indoors and straight ahead (almost 33 ft.) to 7m (23 ft.) at 40 degrees off axis (for 80 degree coverage.)

Outdoors is 7m straight ahead and 5m (16 ft.) off axis.

The ST-E2, by comparison, is "Approx. 12-15 m/39.4 - 49.2 ft; Outdoors: Approx. 8-10 m/ 26.2-32.8 ft", according to the specifications:

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&tabact=ModelTechSpecsTabAct&fcategoryid=217&modelid=8304

Not a bad performance from the in-camera wireless flash controller at all.

Now what would be "really" cool is the ability to use both the on-board controller "and" the ST-E2 simultaneously. If the ST-E2 were mounted via an off camera cord, it would lend a tremendous flexibility in off-camera flash positioning.

[Pindy]

If they do the 7D treatment to the 5DmkIII, it would at least tempt me to switch back. Canon, for all their fabulous R&D and industry-leading tech, are slow on the uptake with regard to what people actually WANT. The 7D is a really great stride toward how they should be making cameras.

[Nikolai]

IRM (Internet Rumor Mill) mentions shipping ETA as October...
Anybody knows/heard any different? :ear

[Scott_Quier]

IRM (Internet Rumor Mill) mentions shipping ETA as October...
Anybody knows/heard any different? :ear
Same here - late October is all I've read as well.

[Baldy]

Almost. The 1D and 1Ds series cameras are both professional level, just designed for different applications.
The 1D/1D MKII/1D MKIIN/1D MKIII are the "sports/action" professional cameras.
The 1Ds/1Ds MKII/1Ds MKIII are the "studio" grade professional cameras, also for landscape, portraiture, etc. Some professionals also use the 1Ds cameras for sports/action when they don't need the rapid frame rate of the 1D cameras because in other methods of responsiveness they are identical. (AF speed, metering speed and accuracy, shutter recycle speed and mirror blackout.)

Canon EOS, 5D/5D MKII and 7D are the high end "prosumer" modelsI've been spending a lot of time with high-end wedding pros lately and I'm having trouble thinking of any who haven't retired their 1Ds MKIIIs for the 5D MKII. The biggest reason is being able to shoot clean at ISO 2000. And more of them are starting to shoot video now in addition to stills.

[Baldy]

Well... I clicked. :D

http://img.skitch.com/20090911-xdtua13mm2i3s1u6yx8eceebbd.jpg

[Nikolai]

Well... I clicked. :D

Well... Well-come to the club! :D

[Scott_Quier]

This should push you one way or the other...

Stephen Eastwood has, it appears, been shooting/testing with a pre-production 7D for a while.

Here's a link to some shots at ISO 100 and the last two at ISO 3200 (EXIF found at the bottom of each photo
http://stepheneastwood.com/Canon/amy_7t/

Here is a link to some still-life shots, comparing the 5D2 to the 7D at various ISO settings. Again, EXIF is found at the bottom of the larger images.
http://stepheneastwood.com/Canon/iso_comp_7/index.htm

[ziggy53]

This should push you one way or the other...

Stephen Eastwood has, it appears, been shooting/testing with a pre-production 7D for a while.

Here's a link to some shots at ISO 100 and the last two at ISO 3200 (EXIF found at the bottom of each photo
http://stepheneastwood.com/Canon/amy_7t/

Here is a link to some still-life shots, comparing the 5D2 to the 7D at various ISO settings. Again, EXIF is found at the bottom of the larger images.
http://stepheneastwood.com/Canon/iso_comp_7/index.htm

Good catch Scott. :thumb

Comparing ISO 3200, the 5D MKII is predictably smoother grain, but the difference is not as much as I would have predicted. Either could produce a usable 8" x 10" (or 8" x 12") for highly detailed subject matter. I would rate the 5DM2 as maybe 2/3rd stop better than the 7D.

[rwells]

Anybody know what this mode is exactly on the 7D?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exposure Control: Program AE (Shiftable), Shutter-priority AE, Aperture-priority AE, Creative Auto, Full auto, Manual exposure, E-TTL II autoflash program AE
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</o:p>
<o:p>I'm refering to (E-TTL II autoflash program AE)</o:p>

[ziggy53]

Anybody know what this mode is exactly on the 7D?

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Exposure Control: Program AE (Shiftable), Shutter-priority AE, Aperture-priority AE, Creative Auto, Full auto, Manual exposure, E-TTL II autoflash program AE
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p>----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</o:p>
<o:p>I'm refering to (E-TTL II autoflash program AE)</o:p>


The same exact phrase is used in the Canon XT description so I think it's just a long description for good old E-TTL II flash automation.

http://tiny.cc/nDUKt

[Awais Yaqub]

Hello
Is there any expected update of 580EX2 coming in ?
:scratch

[Nikolai]

Hello
Is there any expected update of 580EX2 coming in ?
:scratch
Awais, what's wrong with the current version if you don't mind my asking?

[Awais Yaqub]

Awais, what's wrong with the current version if you don't mind my asking?

I don't know, i never used flash :clap:clap

Actually i saved enough to purchase a flash, just thought to wait for new version if it is coming out.

[aktse]

Awais, what's wrong with the current version if you don't mind my asking?
This (http://pixsylated.com/2009/07/syl-arena-canon-speedlite-wishlist/) covers most of my issues.

I just *struggled* and couldn't keep up with the Nikon people during the session with Joe McNally.

I think my main issues are with the ratios, independent group controls, and the ability to use TTL.

I can get around some of this with the new PW or the new radio poppers....

[Nikolai]

I don't know, i never used flash :clap:clap
Actually i saved enough to purchase a flash, just thought to wait for new version if it is coming out.
AFAIK it's not even on the horizon, But of course, PMA can prove me 10% wrong.
FWIW, unless you're planning to shoot a lot of party candids or red carpets, on camera flash is not that useful. You'd need to at least consider an off camera cord or something else (like ST-E2, or PW Flex, etc.).
Mind you, the moment you start talking "lighting" you can forget about glass (let along bodies) being expensive... :deal :dunno

[Baldy]

I don't think I'll ditch the 5D MKII but I was really interested in the 8 fps and crop factor for the action shooting that's hard with the 5D.

[Nikolai]

I don't think I'll ditch the 5D MKII but I was really interested in the 8 fps and crop factor for the action shooting that's hard with the 5D.
Me neither. FF is not something I'm gonna lose. But a fast frame rate shooter has its advantages (3fps in 5D2 is not good for anything but bracketing), as does EF-S compatibility. I also hope it will have better/faster low-light AF capability (cause 5D2 is not a great low light player AF wise).

[Zanotti]

This (http://pixsylated.com/2009/07/syl-arena-canon-speedlite-wishlist/) covers most of my issues.

I just *struggled* and couldn't keep up with the Nikon people during the session with Joe McNally.

I think my main issues are with the ratios, independent group controls, and the ability to use TTL.

I can get around some of this with the new PW or the new radio poppers....


April:

I have seen your photos from the McNally class and the Cali model event - there isn't much handicaping your talent! Some super stuff, from a confusing system.

When are your workshops to begin? I will sign up!


Z

[Nikolai]

This (http://pixsylated.com/2009/07/syl-arena-canon-speedlite-wishlist/) covers most of my issues.

I just *struggled* and couldn't keep up with the Nikon people during the session with Joe McNally.

I think my main issues are with the ratios, independent group controls, and the ability to use TTL.

I can get around some of this with the new PW or the new radio poppers....
Well, I agree, N-world has its adavantages in speedlight area. And yes, I saw that article, very good one. And yes, having all those features done would be awesome.
Luckily for me, I don't use speedlights much :-) :wink, and when I do, I pretty much need one thing and one thing only - for it to flash. TTL is ok, but push comes to shove I'm fine with manual mode.
Just like with all those fancy phones, I'm primarily interested in only one piece of their functionality: being able to make the durn call or receive it.

[ziggy53]

I need to remind folks that the 7D may have improved AF versus the 50D and before (I would bet on it), but it will not be the speed of the Canon 1D/1Ds cameras.

One limitation the 7D appears to inherit from the 50D is the shutter mechanism, or at least it looks very similar.

According to "the-digital-picture.com" the 7D has the same Shutter Lag and Viewfinder Blackout as the 50D. Since AF is a component of Shutter Lag and the AF section is disabled during Blackout, so the improvement for AF "cannot" be as fast as the 1D MKIII (for instance) with a lag of 4-19ms less and a blackout of 20ms less.

The dual image processors will undoubtedly help as will the AF module improvements, but until the lag and and blackout times are improved there won't be a magnitude improvement in AF.

The Dual-Cross-type (center) SIR AF module of the 7D is also limited in sensitivity to lenses of f5.6 aperture or faster. The Area SIR AF of the 1D/1Ds has sensitivity to f8 apertures and can "see" any subject shape.

[Nikolai]

I need to remind folks that the 7D may have improved AF versus the 50D and before (I would bet on it), but it will not be the speed of the Canon 1D/1Ds cameras.
If it were, it would prolly cost a bit more than $1,699. :wink
Good points, as always! :thumb
I think 50D was fairly snappy AF-wise, and while I do understand it isn't 1D series, I was happy with what I was getting $-wise, too:-)
Can't wait to see how the 5D2 + 7D combo would work! :D

[Moogle Pepper]

If it were, it would prolly cost a bit more than $1,699. :wink
Good points, as always! :thumb
I think 50D was fairly snappy AF-wise, and while I do understand it isn't 1D series, I was happy with what I was getting $-wise, too:-)
Can't wait to see how the 5D2 + 7D combo would work! :D


Yeah me too! Go get one, Nik and share!

[Nikolai]

Yeah me too! Go get one, Nik and share!Oh I *am* getting one :-) And you can bet that I will share:-)

[Nikolai]

Just to stir the pot: somebody is getting it on Sep 21st
http://www.avalive.com/Canon/3814B004-EOS-7D/87198/productDetail.php

[Ann McRae]

Pre ordered mine today. Expected at the store here Sept. 28.

[colourbox]

I always think this obsession with what is pro/prosumer/consumer is a load of nonsense TBH. I've seen some great photos from a 350d and some total crap from a 1DS mark 3. You can certainly use the prosumer bodies for professional work as they are robust and reliable and produce great results with the right lens. It's the brain behind the camera that matters most of all, of course.

I'm afraid I have to agree with the other post, the camera does matter. As the owner of a XX0d/Rebel-class camera (that I am very happy with since it fits 98% of what I want to shoot) there have been pro situations where my camera stopped me. For example, I joined a friend in a studio but could not use the monolights because the Rebel-class body has no sync terminal. The UI and handling is clumsier, the flash sync speed is lower which affects flash vs ambient techniques, the focusing system isn't as good, etc. Again, I have no regrets about owning a "consumer" camera, but I certainly am aware of the situations in which it holds one back compared to if a "pro" body was in my hand.

Great photographers will do great work with any camera, but if you have a great camera, at least your equipment isn't holding you back or making you work harder than necessary. Nobody who is serious needs to put up with that. And so you get a pro body.

Back on thread topic, after all the Rebel has taught me, I want to move up. I think I can wait to see how much of the 7D Canon moves into the 5DMKIII or whatever they call that.

[davev]

Pre ordered mine today. Expected at the store here Sept. 28.

I wonder how many of these will make it to Acadia?

I'll be sticking to the 5DMKII for a while or the divorce will cost me a fortune.:D

I will be interested to see the high iso shots in real world usage from this camera.

[VT50]

Does anyone know if the noise levels on the 7D will be significantly less on a higher ISO compared with the 40-50D models? (Sorry if asked and answered)

[Scott_Quier]

Does anyone know if the noise levels on the 7D will be significantly less on a higher ISO compared with the 40-50D models? (Sorry if asked and answered)
Partially answered in post 101 and 102 in that indications are that the 7D is somewhere close to 2/3 stop "more noisy" than the 5D2. By concatination, one could assume that the 7D is quite a bit better than the xxD series.

You can also play around at this site: http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

[NeilL]

I'm afraid I have to agree with the other post, the camera does matter. As the owner of a XX0d/Rebel-class camera (that I am very happy with since it fits 98% of what I want to shoot) there have been pro situations where my camera stopped me. For example, I joined a friend in a studio but could not use the monolights because the Rebel-class body has no sync terminal. The UI and handling is clumsier, the flash sync speed is lower which affects flash vs ambient techniques, the focusing system isn't as good, etc. Again, I have no regrets about owning a "consumer" camera, but I certainly am aware of the situations in which it holds one back compared to if a "pro" body was in my hand.

Great photographers will do great work with any camera, but if you have a great camera, at least your equipment isn't holding you back or making you work harder than necessary. Nobody who is serious needs to put up with that. And so you get a pro body.

Yes, and as I said in the other forum on that topic, there is a connection between technology and imagination. As has been memorably demonstrated multiple times in our lifetimes, advances in technology have led to results that were unpredictable and previously unachievable. Better camera and related technology helps photographers see more, better and further, practically and in inspiration and imagination. The principle applies to the past as well as now and the future. The photographer greats of the past depended on their technology to 'see', imagine and achieve what they did.

Talent is certainly part of photography, as of any other human endeavor. However, talent is also developable, and specifically by the potential offered by technology. To say talent is supreme and aloof from technology is to indulge in damp-eyed folksy idealism. IMHO of course!:D:wink:rofl

Neil

[rookieshooter]

I got to play around with a 7D the other night at a press event in NYC. Shutter speed was very fast, felt good in my hand. AF was quick and precise. Seems like a great prosumer sports camera. I had to set my Nikon down to play with it so they were giving me the evil eye, hehe.

[Nikolai]

Shipping next week?
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10043-10270
:ivar

[ziggy53]

Shipping next week?
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10043-10270
:ivar

That would be nice. Thanks for the link. :thumb

[JohnBiggs]

I'm afraid I have to agree with the other post, the camera does matter. As the owner of a XX0d/Rebel-class camera (that I am very happy with since it fits 98% of what I want to shoot) there have been pro situations where my camera stopped me. For example, I joined a friend in a studio but could not use the monolights because the Rebel-class body has no sync terminal. The UI and handling is clumsier, the flash sync speed is lower which affects flash vs ambient techniques, the focusing system isn't as good, etc.

So you are saying it makes sense to buy a $1800 camera just because you would have to get a $10 sync adapter for the rebel? Besides if it was a studio I setup I'd have all radios that fit in any hotshoe.

Clumsier controls? Perhaps to some, but I know plenty who prefer it. I find even after 50,000 shots or more I still can't remember which wheel changes what. And to make many changes I have to see the top LCD which is usually a pain when mounted to a tripod. The big screen approach on the recent rebels is very nice.

Flash Sync??? Are you kidding. The rebel supports 1/250 The 5D will only do 1/200. The 1D III will only handle 1/250th in studio as well.

I just don't see your complaints as valid.

[Pindy]

Bitchin' review by Michael Reichmann, a guy who closely mirrors my level of crotchetiness. Canon look like they're making a big stride. Wicked looking camera!

[Moogle Pepper]

Should we start your welcoming back party, Pindy? :D

[Nikolai]

Bitchin' review by Michael Reichmann, a guy who closely mirrors my level of crotchetiness. Canon look like they're making a big stride. Wicked looking camera!
You have forgotten the linky: :wink
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/7D-hands-on.shtml

[jdryan3]

Shipping next week?
http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/content_page.asp?cid=7-10043-10270
:ivar

Nik -
If you remember I came to the Shootout last year (via Phoenix) with the 50D I got 3 days before they shipped. B+H didn't have them yet. Do you want me to get you one? :D

[Nikolai]

Nik -
If you remember I came to the Shootout last year (via Phoenix) with the 50D I got 3 days before they shipped. B+H didn't have them yet. Do you want me to get you one? :D
Ryan,
If you remember I came to the Shootout last year (also via Phonenix) with the 50D having it for a couple of weeks already:-) :wink
I do appreciate the offer :thumb but I think mine is in the mail somewhere... :-) :wink

[joshhuntnm]

three words: I want one!

[jmphotocraft]

I have a 5D2 and a 1D2N. If the 7D reviews well for AF, I may replace my 1D with the 7D. I think 5D2 + 7D would be a killer combo for shooting everything... sports, action, kids, birds, portraits, low light, landscapes, artsy stuff. Well, that is until the 5D3 comes along, presumably with 7D AF. THAT will be the "one camera to rule them all".

[Moogle Pepper]

three words: I want one!
I can sum that into one word. Gimme!

[NeilL]

Chee, I dunno, yous guys are never satisfied!!:dunno

(PS I'm just about to order my 7D!!!! hehe:D:rofl)

Neil

[RovingEyePhoto]

I need to remind folks that the 7D may have improved AF versus the 50D and before (I would bet on it), but it will not be the speed of the Canon 1D/1Ds cameras.

One limitation the 7D appears to inherit from the 50D is the shutter mechanism, or at least it looks very similar.

According to "the-digital-picture.com" the 7D has the same Shutter Lag and Viewfinder Blackout as the 50D. Since AF is a component of Shutter Lag and the AF section is disabled during Blackout, so the improvement for AF "cannot" be as fast as the 1D MKIII (for instance) with a lag of 4-19ms less and a blackout of 20ms less.

The dual image processors will undoubtedly help as will the AF module improvements, but until the lag and and blackout times are improved there won't be a magnitude improvement in AF.

The Dual-Cross-type (center) SIR AF module of the 7D is also limited in sensitivity to lenses of f5.6 aperture or faster. The Area SIR AF of the 1D/1Ds has sensitivity to f8 apertures and can "see" any subject shape.
We all want something different. I've followed this 7D thread all the way through, learning as I go, and you hit on what I'm looking for. I don't pretend to understand the underlying fine tech points, don't need to, but you've posted before that Area SIR AF is top -of-the-line, and dim light AF is exactly where my biggest problem lies (aging eyes, manual touch-up not doable). Problem is in the never-never land between good light and the point where strobe assist automatically kicks in on my Oly E3, no manual override so can't force it. Practically everything I shoot is natural light, hand-held, wide open for lots of bokeh (see Flickr and SmugMug links), so tack-sharp subject focus is my saving nirvanah. I'll be due next year for a tech catch-up, have relatively minimal investment in Zuikos, so always looking at Canon/Nikon (as well as Oly) for where to go next. Oly's 4/3 format with in-box IS and fast glass serve me well, but at this point better semi-dim-light tack-sharp focus and low noise are emerging priorities. So all else being equal (which of course they never are), if APS-C or -H or FF showed itself with top-of-the-line AF and IS/VR, coupled with constant f/2.8 glass (or faster, like Oly's equiv 28-70 f/2) zooming somewhere in the equiv 24-85mm range (28-70 bare minimum), at a body priced in the $3,000 range, I'd probably go for it. It's not out there now, but the 7D seems to make strides in the right direction (still not Area SIR, as you say, but strides; and not FF, but APS-C probably fits my aging luggability factor). Just sort of dreaming here, C/N doesn't employ IS/VR in shorter zooms, and even with its advantage of in-box IS, I don't hear of AF and noise advances from the Oly arena. Always a frustration, but oh so sweet ....

[jmphotocraft]

C/N doesn't even employ IS/VR in shorter zooms,

Canon makes an inexpensive 18-55 f/4-5.6 with IS, and the excellent 17-55 f/2.8 IS.

[jm94085]

I was reading over at dpreview and it looks like someone received their 7D today?

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1019&message=33150422

[Nikolai]

Canon makes an inexpensive 18-55 f/4-5.6 with IS, and the excellent 17-55 f/2.8 IS.
:agree and +1 on 17-55. Amazing piece of glass. Too bad there is no EF f2/8 IS alternative :dunno

[joshhuntnm]

Partially answered in post 101 and 102 in that indications are that the 7D is somewhere close to 2/3 stop "more noisy" than the 5D2. By concatination, one could assume that the 7D is quite a bit better than the xxD series.

You can also play around at this site: http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

that is a cool site, Scott, thanks for posting.

[joshhuntnm]

Partially answered in post 101 and 102 in that indications are that the 7D is somewhere close to 2/3 stop "more noisy" than the 5D2. By concatination, one could assume that the 7D is quite a bit better than the xxD series.

You can also play around at this site: http://www.imaging-resource.com/IMCOMP/COMPS01.HTM

to my eye, the 7d is every bit as good as the 5d mark II at ISO 6400

Agree or disagree?

this are from the web page sited above

7d
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E7D/FULLRES/E7DINBI06400.JPG

5d ii
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E5D2/FULLRES/E5D2INBI06400.JPG

[RovingEyePhoto]

Canon makes an inexpensive 18-55 f/4-5.6 with IS, and the excellent 17-55 f/2.8 IS.
The f/4-5.6 is way too slow. I've looked at the 17-55, would meet my speed and bare minimum FL needs (I'd miss 24-28mm, but would survive). Bigger issue would be the EF-S format, obviously would work on the 7D, but expect FF lies somewhere down the road. I've read only good things about the 17-55, that it's an L optic in disguise, and very workable for the hand held genre I shoot. Thanks for the thought.

[RovingEyePhoto]

to my eye, the 7d is every bit as good as the 5d mark II at ISO 6400

Agree or disagree?

this are from the web page sited above

7d
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E7D/FULLRES/E7DINBI06400.JPG

5d ii
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E5D2/FULLRES/E5D2INBI06400.JPG
Comparative shots are amazing at 6400! Like one of those "Thanks, I needed that" experiences.

[kewlcanon]

I think 5D II is 2/3 stop better than 7D :D

to my eye, the 7d is every bit as good as the 5d mark II at ISO 6400

Agree or disagree?

this are from the web page sited above

7d
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E7D/FULLRES/E7DINBI06400.JPG

5d ii
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E5D2/FULLRES/E5D2INBI06400.JPG

[ziggy53]

to my eye, the 7d is every bit as good as the 5d mark II at ISO 6400

Agree or disagree?

this are from the web page sited above

7d
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E7D/FULLRES/E7DINBI06400.JPG

5d ii
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E5D2/FULLRES/E5D2INBI06400.JPG

The 7D has a bit more noise in the lower tones, less detail in the shadow areas and less dynamic range overall as distinguished by more "plasticky" tones. The 7D is still a pleasing rendition at ISO 6400 but the 5D MKII will look visibly better at larger sizes and will hold up best in really low light (low EV values).

In those 2 examples the 7D has more contrast, so the noise has more graininess as well. I suspect it could have been processed differently to produce a more similar image, but the 5D MKII is still the reigning champion in Canon cameras for low light except in terms of AF, where the 1Ds MKIII wins.

[NeilL]

The 7D has a bit more noise in the lower tones, less detail in the shadow areas and less dynamic range overall as distinguished by more "plasticky" tones. The 7D is still a pleasing rendition at ISO 6400 but the 5D MKII will look visibly better at larger sizes and will hold up best in really low light (low EV values).

In those 2 examples the 7D has more contrast, so the noise has more graininess as well. I suspect it could have been processed differently to produce a more similar image, but the 5D MKII is still the reigning champion in Canon cameras for low light except in terms of AF, where the 1Ds MKIII wins.

I presume that there is the option to turn off NR in high ISO, and get the capture with its native noise? I'd much prefer to get as unprocessed an image as possible from the camera, and then decide what to do with it, under my control.

Neil

[Richard]

I presume that there is the option to turn off NR in high ISO, and get the capture with its native noise? I'd much prefer to get as unprocessed an image as possible from the camera, and then decide what to do with it, under my control.

Neil

Don't know about the 7D but the 50D does let you control the level of noise reduction and disable it entirely. Keep in mind that a camera could conceivably do a better job than we can if it is working from an internally created black frame. I don't know whether the 7D uses this method though.

[NeilL]

Don't know about the 7D but the 50D does let you control the level of noise reduction and disable it entirely. Keep in mind that a camera could conceivably do a better job than we can if it is working from an internally created black frame. I don't know whether the 7D uses this method though.

Ah, yes, quite so, R! Unless that was delivered in plastic wrap!:huh

Neil

[ziggy53]

Starting with the Canon 50D and 5D MKII, high-ISO NR is "always" applied to shadow areas and does result in less recoverable shadow detail from underexposure. I would presume that the 7D carries this forward. This applies even to RAW images. It is more important than ever to properly expose and to use Highlight Tone Priority (HTP) in high dynamic range situations as the HTP curves are applied before noise processing.

Nikon D300 and D3 also use a similar NR to the shadow regions and theirs is also applied in RAW.

[RovingEyePhoto]

The 7D has a bit more noise in the lower tones, less detail in the shadow areas and less dynamic range overall as distinguished by more "plasticky" tones. The 7D is still a pleasing rendition at ISO 6400 but the 5D MKII will look visibly better at larger sizes and will hold up best in really low light (low EV values).

In those 2 examples the 7D has more contrast, so the noise has more graininess as well. I suspect it could have been processed differently to produce a more similar image, but the 5D MKII is still the reigning champion in Canon cameras for low light except in terms of AF, where the 1Ds MKIII wins.
Thanks, Ziggy, thought I saw some of this in the samples, but who am I to argue? Old eyes aren't what they used to be. Considering samples are at 6400, both look very good.

These threads inevitably overlap, so sorry for the following question, not specific to the 7D. Some postings in this thread speak to turning off in-camera noise suppression, leaving the matter strictly to post. I've understood, maybe incorrectly, that in-camera settings for this and other pic characteristics (e.g., vibrancy, etc) don't apply to images shot in RAW, only to in-camera JPEG conversions. Is this true, or do some affect the RAW image? Reason why especially important is that other postings here suggest that in-camera noise suppression might be superior to post, so leads me to want to better understand. I expect many readers here are similarly uncertain. Me, I have no shame (well, in certain things, only human), so put myself out there as one of the army of the confused. Amazing that even with such shortcomings, I still get sets I'm proud of, speaks to the amazing level of gear tech.

[ziggy53]

Don't know about the 7D but the 50D does let you control the level of noise reduction and disable it entirely. Keep in mind that a camera could conceivably do a better job than we can if it is working from an internally created black frame. I don't know whether the 7D uses this method though.

Unfortunately, the Digic IV does appear to use shadow NR masking regardless of NR setting. The adjustable portion of NR applies mostly to the lower tones, but does not apply to shadows. (Digic III did allow the user to turn off NR completely and the RAW files did not have any NR applied at any rate. Digic IV apparently applies the shadow NR regardless.)

Dark frame noise reduction only applies to long exposure NR. High ISO sensor noise is random and has to be removed by 2 different algorithms, luminance and chrominance specific, which analyse the image to try to sort out random noise from detail (similar to software based NR). The shadow noise reduction appears to be something new and additional to the random noise reduction.

[Richard]

Unfortunately, the Digic IV does appear to use shadow NR masking regardless of NR setting. The adjustable portion of NR applies mostly to the lower tones, but does not apply to shadows. (Digic III did allow the user to turn off NR completely and the RAW files did not have any NR applied at any rate. Digic IV apparently applies the shadow NR regardless.)

Dark frame noise reduction only applies to long exposure NR. High ISO sensor noise is random and has to be removed by 2 different algorithms, luminance and chrominance specific, which analyse the image to try to sort out random noise from detail (similar to software based NR). The shadow noise reduction appears to be something new and additional to the random noise reduction.

Isn't all noise random by definition? :scratch

[ziggy53]

Isn't all noise random by definition? :scratch

Long exposure noise is predictable, but changes according to camera settings, exposure duration and ambient temperature. If you duplicate the camera settings, exposure duration and ambient temperature and then take a dark frame exposure, it will contain those predictable "hot" (mostly) pixels, which may then be subtracted from the principal exposure.

True random noise has no such predictable behavior and has to be dealt with differently.

[Nikolai]

Long exposure noise is predictable, but changes according to camera settings, exposure duration and ambient temperature. If you duplicate the camera settings, exposure duration and ambient temperature and then take a dark frame exposure, it will contain those predictable "hot" (mostly) pixels, which may then be subtracted from the principal exposure.

True random noise has no such predictable behavior and has to be dealt with differently.

As Ziggy said, the noise in the low light/long exposure digital photogrpahy consists of two pretty much independent parts.
First is the imperfection of the sensor itself. Its different elements (sensels = "SENSor ELements") do have a slightly different sensitivity and that difference becomes more noticeable closer to zero (low light) and when sensor is heated (long exposure). This type of noise is "hard wired" to the device itself, and the dark frame method can deal with it, at least to a degree (taking into account the heat portion). This method is NOT reproducible in a simple RAW post-processing, unless you take a darkframe yourself and then use one of the stack methods in PS CS4 to deal with it - a method often used in astrophotography.
The second part, the aforementioned random noise, mostly comes from a very low light environment and cannot be treated with a dark frame method since it's not sensor-layout specific. However, multiple frames and the stacks can help a lot - provided you can take multiple frames... Otherwise the only existing methods are those that analyse noise pattern on a assumingly evenly lit areas and try to remove it from the image (NN, etc.). The typical sideeffect is that the image becomes softer. :dunno

[Andy]

I wonder how many of these will make it to Acadia?

:nod Mine is shipping today, so I should have it tomorrow. :clap Tallyn's

[ziggy53]

Mine is shipping today I should have it tomorrow. :clap Tallyn's

Sweetness! :clap

[Nikolai]

:nod Mine is shipping today, so I should have it tomorrow. :clap Tallyn'sYay, it means I'm next :-):clap

[ziggy53]

Yay, it means I'm next :-):clap

You both are making me envious. :barb

[Nikolai]

Yep, just got a call, they ship today and I'm getting it Wednesday... Which means... I'll be able to use for my Thursday shoot (at least partially) ! :barb
EDIT: correction: Tuesday :wink

[Awais Yaqub]

:wink :wink :wink

[John Mueller]

Mine should be here tomorrow..............

[Nikolai]

Mine should be here tomorrow..............:thumb

[Moogle Pepper]

Yep, just got a call, they ship today and I'm getting it Wednesday... Which means... I'll be able to use for my Thursday shoot (at least partially) ! :barb
EDIT: correction: Tuesday :wink

Jealous till next Spring. :rofl

[kdog]

Once again, I'd like to thank the early adopters for choosing to help Canon work the kinks out of the first few units so that the rest of us who choose to wait and see will receive the best possible product. :deal

Cheers,
-joel

[Moogle Pepper]

Once again, I'd like to thank the early adopters for choosing to help Canon work the kinks out of the first few units so that the rest of us who choose to wait and see will receive the best possible product. :deal

Cheers,
-joel

:thumb

Best way to put it! hahah!

[divamum]

We expect - nay, DEMAND! - detailed reports with lots of examples...... :thumb :D

[Scott_Quier]

Once again, I'd like to thank the early adopters for choosing to help Canon work the kinks out of the first few units so that the rest of us who choose to wait and see will receive the best possible product. :deal

Cheers,
-joel
I'm with you on that one. I just took delivery of a 5DII about a month ago - after all the dust had settled. I figure it'll be a while before I'll be ready to replace my 50D with the 7D .... or does that sound like sour grapes? Nah.

[Ann McRae]

http://www.annmcraephotography.ca/photos/664056343_ucAGC-L.jpg

[ziggy53]

http://www.annmcraephotography.ca/photos/664056343_ucAGC-L.jpg

I see Canon was kind enough to add a SmugMug Pro strap as well. :thumb :thumb

Now I bet even Andy is envious (because you have the new camera.)

Congratulations Ann. :clap

[Ann McRae]

Thanks Ziggy. I was on the list at McBain Camera and checked last week. They said the 30th for them to get into stores. I was downtown so I went in anyway - and the manager said 'we don't know how many we will get so I cannot say you will get one of the first ones'. I left feeling sad, and drove around the block to Vistek. Asked if they were still taking pre-orders and she said, well we actually have the camera in stock right now!

:barb

and the rest is history!

Forgot to buy the remote shutter tho!

ann

[Andy]

I see Canon was kind enough to add a SmugMug Pro strap as well. :thumb :thumb

Now I bet even Andy is envious (because you have the new camera.)

Congratulations Ann. :clapSeriously, wth :lol3

[Candid Arts]

http://www.annmcraephotography.ca/photos/664056343_ucAGC-L.jpg

Whoa...is that...wait. no way...

A SmugMug PRO strap?

I want one...

Oh hey there is a 7D attached to it. Very nice. Let us know how it performs!?

[Moogle Pepper]

That's a cake fake! I won't believe it till I see photos from the 7D!!

(smugmug pro camera strap? I wants!)

[Nikolai]

Thanks Ziggy. I was on the list at McBain Camera and checked last week. They said the 30th for them to get into stores. I was downtown so I went in anyway - and the manager said 'we don't know how many we will get so I cannot say you will get one of the first ones'. I left feeling sad, and drove around the block to Vistek. Asked if they were still taking pre-orders and she said, well we actually have the camera in stock right now!

:barb

and the rest is history!

Forgot to buy the remote shutter tho!

ann

Ann, you beat both Andy and me! :rofl
Hat's off to you sister! :bow
Now it's *your* responsibility to deliver the hands-on review! :wink

[Moogle Pepper]

Ann, you beat both Andy and me! :rofl
Hat's off to you sister! :bow
Now it's *your* responsibility to deliver the hands-on review! :wink

That should be some relief to you and Andy. All of us rabid dgrinners won't be hounding you for initial reviews and thoughts! :D

[jm94085]

San Jose Camera had 20 arrive this week and I picked one up...there's two left as of Noon today (Tuesday).

Battery is charging...can't wait to take some pics when I have a moment...my real test will be at the Presidents Cup Next week during the practice rounds when I'll be hunting Tiger(s) LOL...rented a 400mm 2.8 L from borrowlenses for a few days.


taken from my iPhone:
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/665179800_roFkZ-M.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Other/My-SmugMug-Site-Files-Do-Not/8401732_fBXpn/1/#665179800_roFkZ-A-LB)

[jmphotocraft]

to my eye, the 7d is every bit as good as the 5d mark II at ISO 6400

Agree or disagree?

this are from the web page sited above

7d
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E7D/FULLRES/E7DINBI06400.JPG

5d ii
http://75.126.132.154/PRODS/E5D2/FULLRES/E5D2INBI06400.JPG

Disagree completely. Those comparisons are useless, I hate how much they're being referenced like this. Even cheaper cameras can look very good at high ISO with well lit, well exposed, motionless subjects. The real comparisons are over at robgalbraith.com (see the reggae shots), and the 5D2 still reigns as Canon's Lord of Darkness. However the 7D is a significant improvement over the XXD line.

[jmphotocraft]

I would love to hear an AF review from any new 7D owners who also have/had a 1DIIN or 1DIII.

If the 7D compares well, I may sell my 1DIIN to get one in the spring before baseball. Why? Portability, resolution, room for cropping, better high ISO, ergonomics/controls, AF-on button, new processors, etc.

[patch29]

Picked up my 7D today, battery just finished charging. Time to tIe some photos and learn all these new features.

[ochong]

Mine will ship tomorrow and *fingers crossed* arrive on Friday.

[ziggy53]

San Jose Camera had 20 arrive this week and I picked one up...

Congratulations. :clap

[ziggy53]

Picked up my 7D today, battery just finished charging. Time to tIe some photos and learn all these new features.

Congratulations. :clap

[jm94085]

Thanks Ziggy...you're always there to lend a hand :barb

[dlplumer]

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E7D/E7DTHMB.HTM

[ziggy53]

I don't recall seeing this link to 7D images from Romy Ocon, a Philippine bird photographer of some esteem:

http://www.pbase.com/liquidstone/7d_preprod

[windoze]

Wow ! I just got home from a hard day of work and UPS pulls up behind me on my driveway. Yay Me - it's a 7D........

trying to comfort my 40D,
windoze

[ziggy53]

Wow ! I just got home from a hard day of work and UPS pulls up behind me on my driveway. Yay Me - it's a 7D........

trying to comfort my 40D,
windoze

Congratulations. :clap

[Andy]

Great comparisons, scene for scene, with Canon 5D II - by Baldy:

<object width="640" height="360" ><param name="movie" value="http://cdn.smugmug.com/ria/ShizVidz-2009090604.swf" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="flashVars" value="s=ZT0xJmk9NjY2MjcxNDQ2Jms9ektCRVkmYT05ODEwNjk3X2Ri UXRLJnU9Y21hYw==" /><embed src="http://cdn.smugmug.com/ria/ShizVidz-2009090604.swf" flashVars="s=ZT0xJmk9NjY2MjcxNDQ2Jms9ektCRVkmYT05ODEwNjk3X2Ri UXRLJnU9Y21hYw==" width="640" height="360" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true"></embed></object>

<a href="http://cmac.smugmug.com/Photography/Testing-video-new-Canon-7D/9810697_dbQtK#666271446_zKBEY">Watch in full HD</a> by clicking vid to Gallery if you like.

[Nikolai]

Great comparisons, scene for scene, with Canon 5D II - by Baldy: Watch in full HD by clicking vid to Gallery if you like.
Great video review, Andy!:thumb

[ziggy53]

Like "Wow". :barb

[dlplumer]

How would you compare the 7D and 5Dii in terms of "still quality"?

[divamum]

Like "Wow". :barb

What he said! :jawdrop

[jm94085]

I ran over to the park on my way home this evening to snap off a few shots and only had about 10 minutes. They're uploading now into my gallery...and are big files so they'll take a while I'm sure to complete.

http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Cameras/7D-Test/9813773_NFjK2/1/666532751_VUxSF

I'll edit and paste a few here in the morning...overall in comparison to my 40D I would say that these have much better colors and are quite noticeably sharper!!
:barb
Shot with a 24-70 2.8L

p.s. I know that composition and some exposure was off...but I completely blame that on myself for being in a rush.

Cheers,
John

<a href="http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Cameras/7D-Test/9813773_NFjK2/1/#666542652_2Kodo-A-LB"><img src="http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/666542652_2Kodo-M.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Cameras/7D-Test/9813773_NFjK2/1/#666556711_r6XAN-A-LB"><img src="http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/666556711_r6XAN-M.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Cameras/7D-Test/9813773_NFjK2/1/#666566220_pHpyY-A-LB"><img src="http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/666566220_pHpyY-M.jpg"></a>

<a href="http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Cameras/7D-Test/9813773_NFjK2/1/#666571622_w4SxA-A-LB"><img src="http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/666571622_w4SxA-M.jpg"></a>

[joshhuntnm]

lets see some low light 6400 iso shots!

[NeilL]

[quote=jm94085]I ran over to the park on my way home this evening to snap off a few shots and only had about 10 minutes. ... [quote=jm94085]

Yes, sharpness, detail, contrast and color are exceptional! Thanks.

Neil

[Ric Grupe]

I may sell my 1DIIN to get one in the spring before baseball. Why? Portability, resolution, room for cropping, better high ISO, ergonomics/controls, AF-on button, new processors, etc.

Don't forget that bigass NiCad battery!:D

[Ric Grupe]

How would you compare the 7D and 5Dii in terms of "still quality"?
:roflyou are kidding right?

No comparison to full frame sensor...that's why Canon is charging $1k more for the 5D2.

Reader Questions
Whenever I get a question in regards to the 7D that others may want an answer to, I’ll post them here.
Q. Would this camera be a good complement to a 5d2? I love the image (quality) of that camera, but I also love to go outside and shoot some birds & critters. I find the 5d2 slightly too sluggish in that regard. would a 7D fill that gap for me?
A. There’s two answers to the question.
The 7D would be a great compliment to the 5D Mark II if you want increased responsiveness, snappy AI Servo autofocus and the big frame rate increase. If you bought the 5D Mark II because you wanted the best image quality you could afford, then the 7D may disappoint.
If you lower your image quality standards and realize you’re snapping birds in flight at 8fps, you’ll be happy with the 7D.


From Here (http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-7d-mini-review/)

[Nikolai]

7D *is* a great compliment to 5D2. :deal

[dlplumer]

7D *is* a great compliment to 5D2. :deal

Nik can you notice any quality difference (noise) between the 50D and the 7D?

[Nikolai]

Nik can you notice any quality difference (noise) between the 50D and the 7D? I don't have 50D already, so I can't compare, but I'd say 7D is better...

[jmphotocraft]

:roflyou are kidding right?

No comparison to full frame sensor...that's why Canon is charging $1k more for the 5D2.

Reader Questions
Whenever I get a question in regards to the 7D that others may want an answer to, I’ll post them here.
Q. Would this camera be a good complement to a 5d2? I love the image (quality) of that camera, but I also love to go outside and shoot some birds & critters. I find the 5d2 slightly too sluggish in that regard. would a 7D fill that gap for me?
A. There’s two answers to the question.
The 7D would be a great compliment to the 5D Mark II if you want increased responsiveness, snappy AI Servo autofocus and the big frame rate increase. If you bought the 5D Mark II because you wanted the best image quality you could afford, then the 7D may disappoint.
If you lower your image quality standards and realize you’re snapping birds in flight at 8fps, you’ll be happy with the 7D.


From Here (http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-7d-mini-review/)


That review is suspect. The guy has two 1DIII's and only ever uses single AF point selection in servo? I don't get that.

[dlplumer]

I pulled the trigger on the 5DII with lots of coaching from dgrinners (Ziggy, Nik, KDOG, A. Nelson et. al.). The picture quality offered by the FF sensor is what convinced me this was right for me. I already have a fast camera in the 50D, and down the road, if I need more speed I may also buy the 7D or whatever.

Should have this for Acadia Shootout:barb

Thanks all.

[Nikolai]

I pulled the trigger on the 5DII with lots of coaching from dgrinners (Ziggy, Nik, KDOG, A. Nelson et. al.). The picture quality offered by the FF sensor is what convinced me this was right for me. I already have a fast camera in the 50D, and down the road, if I need more speed I may also buy the 7D or whatever.

Should have this for Acadia Shootout:barb

Thanks all.
Well, congrats! :thumb

[Scott_Quier]

I pulled the trigger on the 5DII with lots of coaching from dgrinners (Ziggy, Nik, KDOG, A. Nelson et. al.). The picture quality offered by the FF sensor is what convinced me this was right for me. I already have a fast camera in the 50D, and down the road, if I need more speed I may also buy the 7D or whatever.

Should have this for Acadia Shootout:barb

Thanks all.
From personal experience .... yo' is gonna love that camera. See you there!

[Ric Grupe]

That review is suspect. The guy has two 1DIII's and only ever uses single AF point selection in servo? I don't get that.

I thought that sounded strange too.

Still, the part I quoted seems like a fair statement.

[dlplumer]

From personal experience .... yo' is gonna love that camera. See you there!

Thanks Scott. Now I need a FF WA:rolleyes

[kdog]

Thanks Scott. Now I need a FF WA:rolleyes
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=115951 :deal

[dlplumer]

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=115951 :deal

Do you use that Joel?

I was thinking Canon 17-40 f/4 L:scratch

[craig_d]

I was thinking Canon 17-40 f/4 L:scratch

I have the 17-40 f/4 L. It's a great lens, and pretty inexpensive by L standards. I was just out using it this morning; I'll upload something later tonight.

[rwells]

Do you use that Joel?

I was thinking Canon 17-40 f/4 L:scratch

Dan,

If you don't need f/2.8, then get the 17-40 f/4. I use this lens a lot (5D & 5DMkII). It is sharp and has very nice color. I LOVE a WA no a FF. It is a great lens, and you can't fuss about the price either.

[ochong]

My 7D arrived about an hour ago. Charging the battery as I type and anxiously awaiting taking it for a spin.

[joshhuntnm]

My 7D arrived about an hour ago. Charging the battery as I type and anxiously awaiting taking it for a spin.

love to see some low light, 6400 iso pics.

where did you get it, by the way?

[Nikolai]

love to see some low light, 6400 iso pics.

Already been posted... at least by Ann and yours truly:
http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=145564

[ochong]

love to see some low light, 6400 iso pics.

where did you get it, by the way?

I bought mine from cameralensrentals.com. The owner Barry is a contributor to photography-on-the.net and often offers pre-orders on new bodies and lenses. I contacted him tuesday and he shipped the next day. He even advised me to choose the cheapest shipping (ground) and assured me it would arrive today, he didn't lie. The camera arrived packed well and for 1666.71 shipped. He often offers free shipping if you pre-order with him, but I didn't order until they had already arrived to him and purchased one of his extras.

I'll post back here once I have some shots to show.

[kdog]

Do you use that Joel?

I was thinking Canon 17-40 f/4 L:scratch

Dan, no, I have the 16-35 MKII. The shots I've seen posted with the 17-40 look terrific, and it's half the price of the 16-35. So if you don't need the extra stop, I think it will serve you well.

The Nikon is reputed to be the best wide-angle lens in the industry right now. I did consider getting it along with the adapter, but you lose AF, and I really wanted at least one WA lens with IS.

[Ric Grupe]

Do you use that Joel?

I was thinking Canon 17-40 f/4 L:scratch

That was one of the first lens I ever bought and the only one I've ever regretted parting with. Cost to quality...maybe the best.

[dlplumer]

Dan, no, I have the 16-35 MKII. The shots I've seen posted with the 17-40 look terrific, and it's half the price of the 16-35. So if you don't need the extra stop, I think it will serve you well.

The Nikon is reputed to be the best wide-angle lens in the industry right now. I did consider getting it along with the adapter, but you lose AF, and I really wanted at least one WA lens with IS.

Thanks Joel.:thumb

[dlplumer]

That was one of the first lens I ever bought and the only one I've ever regretted parting with. Cost to quality...maybe the best.

Ric, you are talking about the 17-40, yes? Why did you part with it?

[ziggy53]

My 7D arrived about an hour ago. Charging the battery as I type and anxiously awaiting taking it for a spin.

Congratulations. :clap

[jm94085]

So I took a shot at capturing something that I knew would be challenging to see how well AF would track the object.

At my office a co-worker has one of those small (less then 6" long) remote controlled helicopters. A small target and we had to do it in the shade as the remote uses infrared to control the heli which would die once it hits sunlight.

The challenge then came that it's a small yet fast target that zips around and bounces up and down quite rapidly. Add to that the less than ideal lighting available.

Shot with 7D in AI Servo mode, high speed continuous drive mode with a 24-70 2.8L - set at f/5.6 (AE mode) ISO 100 and 70mm for all shots. Would have bumped up the ISO to get faster shutter speeds but the battery on the Heli died and thus they're not as sharp as I'd like.

Overall however I felt like it tracked and kept focus well on this difficult target.

Sample image (all shot in camera JPG - didn't have time to shoot and convert RAW right now)
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/668006404_o9kv5-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Cameras/7D-AI-Servo-Trackin/9829104_CriYc#668006404_o9kv5)

Gallery:
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Cameras/7D-AI-Servo-Trackin/9829104_CriYc/1/668005404_nh3d9

Cheers,
John

[Candid Arts]

That's really not to bad at 1/80th shutter speed.

[ochong]

Here are 100% crops of ISOs 100-6400, exported from DPP as tiffs with NR off and no adjustments. I then combined them in photoshop and exported as maximum jpeg. These were taken with the 85 f/1.8 and I didn't focus on making sure the crops were the sharpest portion of the image.

Personally, I am quite impressed considering I am moving up from the 350D.

http://www.bitartifact.com/Other/Technical/7D/9829726_uZZe5#668062977_9uY9k-O-LB

General comments so far:
I really like the feel of the body in my hands - that includes the weight.
The shutter button is quite the hair-trigger.
The shutter sound is pleasing.
I feel like i have never held an SLR before with it being so different in control and menu structure from my 4+ year old 350D. Definitely need practice before i'll be comfortable.
Video is challenging since i have no prior experience.
RAW file sizes have varied between ~21mb to ~31mb.

I may have the camera out with me tonight for some actual high iso shots. This weekend is going to be mostly a wash with rain both days.

[craig_d]

The Digital Picture now has some ISO comparisons of the 7D to the 5D2, 50D, and T1i:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/reviews/Canon-EOS-7D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

Overall, it looks about like I would have expected: a bit better than the 50D, but not up to the level of the 5D2.

[joshhuntnm]

The Digital Picture now has some ISO comparisons of the 7D to the 5D2, 50D, and T1i:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/reviews/Canon-EOS-7D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

Overall, it looks about like I would have expected: a bit better than the 50D, but not up to the level of the 5D2.

that 6400 is definitely getting grainy. Thanks for posting.

[Ann McRae]

that 6400 is definitely getting grainy. Thanks for posting.

Hmmm, Josh, compared to?

I haven't had the privilege of owning the new sensors, so compared to my 20d and the 1dMkIIN, (where the max ISO is 3200 anyway) these look really good. This is an unedited ISO6400 shot, from the kids soccer practice last night:

http://www.annmcraephotography.ca/photos/667744426_GQnkj-XL.jpg

This is an editing from RAW ISO 1600 shot, pretty similar level of darkness, from the 1dMkIIN:

http://www.annmcraephotography.ca/photos/660531652_pJK2D-L.jpg

Now I don't have the RAM to install CS4 yet, so haven't processed the RAWs from the 7D, but I am sure there is less digital noise in the ISO 6400 let alone the ISO 1600 shots from the 7D.

But I don't have the 5d to use for comparison, so I cannot say.

ann

[Terrence]

I went to my local store to see if they had a 7D...just to look at. 10 minutes later, I was out $1,900 (with extra battery and tax). I absolutely fell in love with it as soon as it came out of the bubble wrap. I swear, I heard it speak to me.

[Ric Grupe]

Ric, you are talking about the 17-40, yes? Why did you part with it?

Yes...wish I could remember why!:D

[dlplumer]

Yes...wish I could remember why!:D
:rofl :rofl :rofl

[ziggy53]

I went to my local store to see if they had a 7D...just to look at. 10 minutes later, I was out $1,900 (with extra battery and tax). I absolutely fell in love with it as soon as it came out of the bubble wrap. I swear, I heard it speak to me.

... and I thought the voices were only in "my" head. :rofl

Congratulations. :clap

[Nikolai]

I went to my local store to see if they had a 7D...just to look at. 10 minutes later, I was out $1,900 (with extra battery and tax). I absolutely fell in love with it as soon as it came out of the bubble wrap. I swear, I heard it speak to me.
Congrats! And welcome to the club! :clap

[NeilL]

Thanks to all you people for these touching (and very useful) tales of the start of a new relationship! :D:thumb

Neil

[LKN Dave]

Anyone know when Amazon is shipping their pre-orders? I am drooling over all the reviews and I want mine.

[jh4wvu]

Anyone know when Amazon is shipping their pre-orders? I am drooling over all the reviews and I want mine.
I have 2 on order through Amazon and 2 on order through Best Buy. So I will see which one is faster.

Amazon - no sales tax but no financing. No status updates yet.
Best Buy - sales tax and higher shipping cost but 18 months financing. My order status says they will be released on 10/11 and expected arrival 10/16.

Anybody want to buy a 40D -- I have two I will be selling soon.

Can't wait...

Chris

[joshhuntnm]

I have 2 on order through Amazon and 2 on order through Best Buy. So I will see which one is faster.

Amazon - no sales tax but no financing. No status updates yet.
Best Buy - sales tax and higher shipping cost but 18 months financing. My order status says they will be released on 10/11 and expected arrival 10/16.

Anybody want to buy a 40D -- I have two I will be selling soon.

Can't wait...

Chris

how much?

[colourbox]

OK now I don't do a whole lot with video but this is the kind of thing that makes me want to go get a 7D and do it.
http://vimeo.com/6912114

[Moogle Pepper]

This is like one of those eHarmony commercials.. only for a camera! :rofl

[waygard33]

For you 7D dreamers (like me)...I stumbled upon this almost 12 minute video review of the 7D. The entire video shows the 7D in hand as it goes over its' features.

Just scroll down the page to the video window:
http://www.digitalcameratracker.com/canon-eos-7d-review-sample-photos/ (http://<a href=)

Wayne G

[Nikolai]

OK now I don't do a whole lot with video but this is the kind of thing that makes me want to go get a 7D and do it.
http://vimeo.com/6912114
Nice slow-mo! :thumb

[jm94085]

Here's a link to the gallery (loading day two might take well into Thursday as it's taking a long time with these large files).

http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy/1/673223734_vz9yd

...and here's a few of my favorites from day 1

1.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673225289_GbJo9-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673225289_GbJo9)

2.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673270447_RaL9w-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673270447_RaL9w)

3.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673339544_gsaki-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673339544_gsaki)

4.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673407989_rRMb9-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673407989_rRMb9)

5.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673444232_s26ia-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673444232_s26ia)

6.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673488424_Mg6Kr-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673488424_Mg6Kr)

7.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673556460_5d4oy-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673556460_5d4oy)

8.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673568961_gdX5u-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673568961_gdX5u)

9.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673648665_TGYJ5-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673648665_TGYJ5)

10.
http://www.mccauley-photo.com/photos/673702533_ynqLQ-XL.jpg (http://www.mccauley-photo.com/Sports/2009-Presidents-Cup/9564821_J9pzy#673702533_ynqLQ)

Cheers,
John

[ziggy53]

Nice set John. Several to love. :thumb

[dlplumer]

Nice set John. Several to love. :thumb

:bow

[Candid Arts]

Very nice. #5 is my fav.

[jm94085]

Thanks guys...it was fun being able to shoot during the practice rounds, now I'm relegated to just being a spectator which was a blast today :-)

[travischance]

For you 7D dreamers (like me)...I stumbled upon this almost 12 minute video review of the 7D. The entire video shows the 7D in hand as it goes over its' features.

Just scroll down the page to the video window:
http://www.digitalcameratracker.com/canon-eos-7d-review-sample-photos/ (http://<a href=)

Wayne G

Great video! I just recieved my Best Buy Premier 12% off voucher and will get one next week. Sorry Amazon but you don't have 18-month 0% financing!!!!! Whooo hoooo!!!!

[gecko0]

Great video! I just recieved my Best Buy Premier 12% off voucher and will get one next week. Sorry Amazon but you don't have 18-month 0% financing!!!!! Whooo hoooo!!!!

+1...excellent video overview. this pretty much put me over the edge. can't wait to get it!:thumb

[jmphotocraft]

lol, Clinton looks like he's taking a whiz.

[joshhuntnm]

lol, Clinton looks like he's taking a whiz.

haha

now i cannot see that photo any other way!

[NikonsandVstroms]

For you 7D dreamers (like me)...I stumbled upon this almost 12 minute video review of the 7D. The entire video shows the 7D in hand as it goes over its' features.

Just scroll down the page to the video window:
http://www.digitalcameratracker.com/canon-eos-7d-review-sample-photos/

Wayne G

I don't mean to start any flame wars (I shoot 3ish systems already and almost got a 5D mkII so no blind Canon bias) but that video is good to see the features just ignore the commentary. One thing he mentions as "a first for any DSLR" is the digital level which has been in Nikon and Olympus DSLR's for about a year now. It raised a lot of red flags in my head in his editorial comments in comparing the D300s/7D.

But back to the camera itself, as I mentioned before looking good and I am excited to try one out. :thumb