DSS #30 Unofficial Feedback Thread - Envorinmental Portrait

[hawkeye978]

Here is the official gallery to give your C&C for DSS#30

Gallery Found Here... (http://challenges.smugmug.com/gallery/9054314_hzW8C#606555962_V6Hcv)

Once more into the fray. This unofficial feedback thread is a catch-all of sorts, lets make it happen:thumb

Anyway, let's start feedback on DSS #30!!

This thread is:
a place to post a list of your top ten favorites. (be heard, and let everyone know what images moved you.)
a place to post your "the making of my image"
a place to ask someone "how did they do that?"(for us all to see:D )Feedback is an important part of the photographic process. While those selected as finalists get feedback from the judges and those who vote, others are never quite sure where they stand. So share your thoughts both in this thread and with comments in the actual gallery. Constructive criticism should always be welcome.

It's easy to post thumbnails (with help from our Moderator).

With the image selected in the gallery, copy its URL from your browser, add "-Th.jpg" to the end, delete the jumble of numbers and letters preceding the hashtag (#), change "gallery" to "photos" and that's it.

Example

Change this url


http://challenges.smugmug.com/gallery/7821877_VUfQz#508585564_r5YQB

To this


http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/508585564_r5YQB-Th.jpg


Happy Feedbacking :scratch

[jeffgroves]

Great job everyone! Congratulations to all who entered and good luck judges trying to pick only 10!

http://jeffgroves.smugmug.com/photos/615766357_vyxr9-L.jpg

[michswiss]

Great job everyone. Here are some of the photos that took my fancy.

http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/608783468_6E8cD-Th http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/609920053_YmvBj-Th http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/611383654_zX472-Th http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/612864262_36cge-Th http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/613419709_cKgsd-Th

http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/614182329_D9kkt-Th http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/614248311_odTek-Th http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/614601393_QWp9r-Th http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/615091070_duCCU-Th http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/615383952_XE72E-Th

[AirThom]

My top choices in the order they appear in the album:
http://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/611383654_zX472-Th.jpghttp://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/614182329_D9kkt-Th.jpghttp://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/614248311_odTek-Th.jpghttp://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/614485812_peZds-Th.jpghttp://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/615091070_duCCU-Th.jpghttp://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/615383952_XE72E-Th.jpghttp://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/615492502_woFoJ-Th.jpghttp://challenges.smugmug.com/photos/615697871_A6PZP-Th.jpg

I loved in all of these how they really captured the context surrounding their subjects... bravo!

[Tango]

I love so many shots from this challenge! good work everyone!...I cant wait to see who wins this one!

[whiterice]

What a great round....congrats everyone.:clap I'll put my individual comments in the gallery.

[sherstone]

Wow the judges have been so quick the last few rounds that this thread barely gets a chance to get started before the results are in. (not that I am complaining / I love to see the results this quick)

My top picks are the same as the ones that the judges picked :rofl
JK - seriously though, this round is chock full of WOW blow your socks off shots and picking only 10 certainly is challenging.

I feel energetic, so I plan on making comments on all the entries in the gallery later on this week
:lustThis round sure was (is) fun!

BTW - Thanks to michswiss and AirThom for your top picks inclusion.

[photo-funtasia]

Here are my top 10 favorite entries, in the order they appear into the contest:

http://allbiz.smugmug.com/photos/616576228_j7hpk-L.jpg

I made my comments under each entry in the contest.

[kds1]

Thanks for your kind comments on my entry, everyone! I will learn as I go . . .

That shot was pretty funny to do - my daughter was rather miffed that I insisted on dragging her packed up stuff (she just graduated h.s. and is going on to college) out, laying it all over her room and taking her photo while she had no makeup on! The look on her face is literally, "I can't believe you're doing this." But in the end, I think she liked having a record of her 'stuff' and her at this transition time in her life.

I'll do my best to do a more artistic entry for the next one! I loved so many of the entries - wig lady, chef, all good and show that person in the environment in which they function. I think I've learned that each person takes the entry definition differently (which is to be expected) and I've gotten a little more familiar with the process and forum posts around the challenges. So thank you, all!

[photo-funtasia]

I would also like to thank all who made a comment on my entry.

I made my own explanations under the photo and I'll repeat them here:

I replaced my old entry (http://allbiz.smugmug.com/gallery/9104828_dCmhi#612093893_oYcKq) with the current one because:

1. The composition and crop are much better - there are more important elements
balancing each other.

2. It shows his face and his eyes, which I think it's important for a portrait
(please correct me if I'm wrong)

3 It shows more of his art

In addition he is an artist selling his work on the street, even though he's
not painting directly on the side walk. He is a street artist - how else should I call him?...

The fact that the judges didn't like it is a little confusing because I received a lot of good
comments on this photo, especially in the daily photo community (http://allbiz.smugmug.com/gallery/6464803_UmdP9#615716007_sZpft) , where I posted it yesterday...:scratch

Well, maybe this is just a matter of lottery... I hope it's not personal :dunno

[HoofClix]

.... I hope it's not personal :dunno

It was definitely NOT personal.. Hang in there and know that your stuff is great.. Your photo was one of your very best so far!

[richtersl]

Don't sweat it, Tatiana. :wink That happened to me with my photo from the previous round. I submitted it for C&C in several places and it was well received but it did not make it into the voting round for DSS #29. :dunno

It didn't bother me a bit because I liked how it turned out, it was generally well-received, and I know it will be a nice addition to my portfolio.

Ditto for your street artist series! You came home with shots that you should be proud of. They will be a wonderful addition to your portfolio and you should seriously considering submitting one or more of them to a local exhibit.

[nightpixels]

I would also like to thank all who made a comment on my entry.

I made my own explanations under the photo and I'll repeat them here:

I replaced my old entry (http://allbiz.smugmug.com/gallery/9104828_dCmhi#612093893_oYcKq) with the current one because:

1. The composition and crop are much better - there are more important elements
balancing each other.

2. It shows his face and his eyes, which I think it's important for a portrait
(please correct me if I'm wrong)

3 It shows more of his art

In addition he is an artist selling his work on the street, even though he's
not painting directly on the side walk. He is a street artist - how else should I call him?...

The fact that the judges didn't like it is a little confusing because I received a lot of good
comments on this photo, especially in the daily photo community (http://allbiz.smugmug.com/gallery/6464803_UmdP9#615716007_sZpft) , where I posted it yesterday...:scratch

Well, maybe this is just a matter of lottery... I hope it's not personal :dunno

Hi Tatiana,

Of course it is NOT personal. As I mentioned it under your image, your original entry was my absolute top favorite in the gallery. Number ONE, no ifs or buts in my mind, I just loved it. The new entry just didn't move me as much. Yes, the person in your image may very well be a street artist, however, I wasn't getting that impression from the image. To me it looked like a guy who was selling art instead of performing art (like the artist in the original image was doing it). Of course, this is strictly my own interpretation of it and I could only be one of many who thinks this way. (I guess Kevin may have too)

As for the C&C threads in this round, I did not read a single one of them for 2 reasons: 1) I did not want my opinion to be influenced by others' C&Cs 2) I was out of the country on a vacation and just didn't have the time to read them. I may have taken a peak at them once in awhile when I got the chance, but mostly I stayed away from this board for good 2 weeks.

Again, your entry is a wonderful image, it's just my personal interpretation of it that stopped me from picking it.

You are a great photographer who produces great photos on daily basis and I enjoy looking at your photos in your "photo a day" gallery.

[Tango]

I hate seeing Judges needing to explain their actions to someone upset..... photobug its not a lottery, and yes its personal, meaning specifically personal to the judge and how they react and receive a image "Personally".

Photobug maybe show the judges some respect of their artistic view...

[photo-funtasia]

Thank you Mark and Linda for your kind encouragement.

[KevXman]

Hi Tatiana,

Please don't take it personally and please don't let it discourage you. I did not see your original entry so I cannot comment on it. Your final entry though did make my short list. I like the composition and subject matter. However, even though I like the colors I feel that you might have overdone the PP a bit. The person's rear-end in the upper left corner takes away from an overall great image in my view. So on my list of choices, when I had to whittle it down to just ten, there were one or two minor checkmarks against it. Yes, I wish judging could be completely impersonal. But, when there are so many good photos technically being submitted, the final choice will always come down to what "Moves Me" for the judge. This has happened to all of us and will continue to happen. Every round there is at least one photo that has been either picked for voting or passed over that makes me think "ARE YOU FRIGGIN' NUTS?!". So take it with a grain of salt and move on. Hopefully at the very least you learned some new technique either taking the photo or processing it that you can put in your bag of tricks. :lust :thumb
— Kevin

[dlplumer]

Thank you Mark and Linda for your kind encouragement.

I'm sure you saw my cc in the gallery Tatiana. I loved your new entry.

Remember, this sport is soooooooo subjective. What one person likes, another doesn't......and there is no TRUTH......just opinion and perspective.
:D

[nightpixels]

I hate seeing Judges needing to explain their actions to someone upset..... photobug its not a lottery, and yes its personal, meaning specifically personal to the judge and how they react and receive a image "Personally".

Photobug maybe show the judges some respect of their artistic view...
Hi Aaron,

I agree that Art is all personal and subjective when it comes to interpreting it or when it comes to how much a work of art moves a certain individual. I wanted to make it clear to Photo-bug that it was nothing against her or her work. I hope I was able to accomplish that :D

[photo-funtasia]

Thank you Allen for the clarifications.

I would honestly hoped that it was personal, because the simple "like" or "dislike" doesn't sound to me
the best was of judging someone's work in a contest.

I needed a fair critique of my work, so I can know why what I did was not good or not good enough.

I totally agree that there were others better (in my opinion) and I took my time to submit my comments
on why... the ones above are just part of the works I appreciate this time.

I also submitted some comments on why not, as the time allowed me.

I'm participating into these contest hoping to learn, but sometimes I just leave discouraged, without
understanding too much about how should I have done it better.

I think that a real criticism, more objective rather than subjective would be a real help,
I'm sure not only for me.

[Tango]

when you have a photograph that you love it does not matter what anyone has to say about it.

[photo-funtasia]

Hi Tatiana,

Please don't take it personally and please don't let it discourage you. I did not see your original entry so I cannot comment on it. Your final entry though did make my short list. I like the composition and subject matter. However, even though I like the colors I feel that you might have overdone the PP a bit. The person's rear-end in the upper left corner takes away from an overall great image in my view. So on my list of choices, when I had to whittle it down to just ten, there were one or two minor checkmarks against it. Yes, I wish judging could be completely impersonal. But, when there are so many good photos technically being submitted, the final choice will always come down to what "Moves Me" for the judge. This has happened to all of us and will continue to happen. Every round there is at least one photo that has been either picked for voting or passed over that makes me think "ARE YOU FRIGGIN' NUTS?!". So take it with a grain of salt and move on. Hopefully at the very least you learned some new technique either taking the photo or processing it that you can put in your bag of tricks. :lust :thumb
— Kevin

I like your reply Kevin, and this kind of critique. Yes this is the way we can learn from each other.

Thank you :thumb

[photo-funtasia]

I'm sure you saw my cc in the gallery Tatiana. I loved your new entry.

Thank you Dan.

I can say I like this kind of critique ;)

Remember, this sport is soooooooo subjective. What one person likes, another doesn't......and there is no TRUTH......just opinion and perspective.
:D

I do remember... and that's why I mentioned the term "lottery": the right entry in the right time to the right judge... kind of...

As I previously said, a more objective critique (if possible), would be more constructive - in my opinion...

[The Curious Camel]

thanks Jeff Groves
AirThom
and Taitina for having me on their list of top ten.

[photo-funtasia]

I hate seeing Judges needing to explain their actions to someone upset..... photobug its not a lottery, and yes its personal, meaning specifically personal to the judge and how they react and receive a image "Personally".

Photobug maybe show the judges some respect of their artistic view...

Aaron,

I didn't offend anybody and didn't ask "Judges to explain their actions to someone upset....."

I'm sorry but I find your intervention quite offensive...

I asked in order to correct myself, so I don't really believe i deserve this rather caustic reply...

[photo-funtasia]

when you have a photograph that you love it does not matter what anyone has to say about it.

Correct, but this is not the case. I generally have more than one shot that may be good for the subject,
because I'm trying to work as hard as possible, especially because I'm a beginner to photography.

That's why I'm not sure how good my one photo can be or not and I need some objective critique,
so I can correct myself, as I mentioned.

[photo-funtasia]

thanks Jeff Groves
AirThom
and Taitina for having me on their list of top ten.

You did a great job as always, Gail.... as much as I can say with my limited experience in photography :D

[Llywellyn]

Tatiana, if you haven't done so already, I'd highly recommend checking out the newly restyled Refinery forum here. I think you'll find more of the type of critique you're looking for there, if you're still craving it. :thumb

[photo-funtasia]

Tatiana, if you haven't done so already, I'd highly recommend checking out the newly restyled Refinery forum here. I think you'll find more of the type of critique you're looking for there, if you're still craving it. :thumb

Hi Kerry,

I did before and will eventually try it again, thank you.

[Tango]

Aaron,

I didn't offend anybody and didn't ask "Judges to explain their actions to someone upset....."

I'm sorry but I find your intervention quite offensive...

I asked in order to correct myself, so I don't really believe i deserve this rather caustic reply...

Ok, you dont understand... Im not going to explain any further, so we will leave it at that. moving on....

[Katmitchell]

I would also like to thank all who made a comment on my entry.

I made my own explanations under the photo and I'll repeat them here:

I replaced my old entry (http://allbiz.smugmug.com/gallery/9104828_dCmhi#612093893_oYcKq) with the current one because:

1. The composition and crop are much better - there are more important elements
balancing each other.

2. It shows his face and his eyes, which I think it's important for a portrait
(please correct me if I'm wrong)

3 It shows more of his art

In addition he is an artist selling his work on the street, even though he's
not painting directly on the side walk. He is a street artist - how else should I call him?...

The fact that the judges didn't like it is a little confusing because I received a lot of good
comments on this photo, especially in the daily photo community (http://allbiz.smugmug.com/gallery/6464803_UmdP9#615716007_sZpft) , where I posted it yesterday...:scratch

Well, maybe this is just a matter of lottery... I hope it's not personal :dunno

=======================================


OK.. Wait a minute... first I have to agree with Aaron on this one.. I don't like to see this either... It kills the spirit of "good sportsmanship"... This is a contest and to enter the artist is "supposed" to have enough where with all and faith in their "own work and vision" before entering.

Now we have the "CC" board "BEFORE" the contest for a reason, and that is where we all take the time to CC and help each other learn..

In "most" national photo contests out there, you never get an explanation from the judge, EVER... at least here they are willing to give us something... by expecting an explanation like this you are basically saying "your" photo is more worthy than all of the other entries that got passed up.. You don't see them on here demanding an explanation... Could you imagine how that would make judging if every judge had to psycho analyze their reasoning to every contestant?

I am going to step out on a limb here and just say this, although it may not end up making me very popular in the end, that is a risk I am willing to take for the sake of what is right....

I have a question:

I noticed on your post that you mentioned you post your challenge entries in the "dailys" ... I also noticed yesterday that Jeff Groves said he did this too in the entry gallery under the comments there under his photo.. I did not know what the daily's were until you guys brought this up, and so I went and checked it out... I have to step up and say that I do not think that is fair..

If a person is running a community group or belongs to one, and they are over there gathering favor and votes for themselves with other dgrin members so those members will vote for their photo, that is wrong.

If a person is posting in these community groups and the dailys and is actually "listing and titling" the photo as a "dgrin challenge entry" before the contest, I think that is unfair advertisement for their photo and puts "ALL" of the other entries at a disadvantage.

This method of practice puts "those" who are doing this.. > at an advantage for the polls if they are drawing crowds, advertisement, exposure and comments onto an entry
( prior to the contest)..

I do not think this should be allowed...

-- >> It amazes me and disappoints me that these contests are just about "winning" to some people...

It would be nice to lose or win at this because of skill level and not who does the best marketing..After all, it is by fairly winning or losing that we can gauge where we need to improve, and that in itself is helping us to learn..

I don't think a person needs to be center of attention all the time getting tons of CC on their photo repeatedly to learn... An artist has to reach a place of confidence in their work enough to begin to scrutinize themselves some too... and as I said.. that is what the CC boards are for "prior" to the contest..:thumb


If I am wrong, please correct me... I do not know a lot about the dailys or the communities on here, only what I have looked at recently... but if I am right then I stand on what I have said... especially if they are labeling their entries as challenge photos..

Kat

[Katmitchell]

Tatiana,

It also looks to me from going through the gallery link you posted that you are receiving """ a ton """ of feedback and help on your images already.. So what is there to complain about...?

http://allbiz.smugmug.com/gallery/6464803_UmdP9#608533977_QZsZW

[Llywellyn]

Okay, hold up now...

Kat, the dailies community is part of the SmugMug communities and is not directly linked to DGrin. I was an active part of that community for a year, and I can say for certain there isn't a huge crossover between people who participate in the dailies and those who are registered on DGrin. I can name a few, but it really isn't an overwhelming number. And even fewer the number who are in the dailies community, registered on DGrin, and participate in the challenges.

Asking for feedback elsewhere on an entry is kosher. Getting feedback from anywhere is fine, especially since feedback is especially craved 'round these parts. :D

Now, certainly, posting an image elsewhere and then asking a whole bunch of people to come vote for your photo here is not kosher. I haven't seen anyone doing this, but we certainly keep track of who is voting and can spot it if it suddenly does start to happen. The dailies community is HUGE. We'd notice if they suddenly all flooded us. :lol3

No one's done anything against the rules here. I hope more SmugMug people do come check out DGrin, and the challenges, and the SM communities are one way to keep our own community here growing. :thumb

We have that running joke about "blind judges" because it's so very hard to put your hard work out there time after time and have it not be chosen. Trust me, I know. I do it all the time, and it, frankly, sucks. But every time I get passed up, I look at my work that much harder, and I look at what beat me out, and I figure out how to make it even better the next time.

Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion here, as long as it's done civilly and with respect. So let's keep to our good track record, eh? :D

As a final note: dear judges, I would be lost and so overwhelmed without each and every one of you who has stepped up, and continues to step up, to help keep these challenges running. Thank you so very much for the time you put in here. In short, you rock! :bow

[Llywellyn]

Mod stick on full power right now: personal attacks will not be tolerated on DGrin. Ever. Posts are beginning to sway that way, and I will start banning if it continues.

[dnie]

Mod stick on full power right now: personal attacks will not be tolerated on DGrin. Ever. Posts are beginning to sway that way, and I will start banning if it continues.
:thumb Thanks Kerry
emotions can carry us away and we type before we think sometimes.

[photo-funtasia]

Mod stick on full power right now: personal attacks will not be tolerated on DGrin. Ever. Posts are beginning to sway that way, and I will start banning if it continues.

Thank you Kerry :clap

[Tango]

Thank you Kerry :clap

:scratch your included in that warning....

[Llywellyn]

Stop. :bwg

[Tango]

:D sorry, I learned it from my kids....


[now trying to lighten the mood....]

[HoofClix]

Che spesso ha detto il mio amico in Prato... "Calma Marco, Calma......"

[photo-funtasia]

:scratch your included in that warning....

Wrong - I didn't personally attacked anybody - but watch your comments :wink

* BTW: let's stop this. OK?

[Tango]

Wrong - I didn't personally attacked anybody - but watch your comments :wink

* BTW: let's stop this. OK?

In respect for Kerry, your my first person to put on a ignore list... never thought i would ever do that....:dunno

[Llywellyn]

Tatiana didn't attack anyone personally. She expressed an opinion. Do I agree with it? No. But she expressed it civilly, and I can contradict it civilly. The judges here put time and thought into their decisions, and they give more time to critiquing their picks. We can learn just as much from C&C on others' photos as we can on our own, but there are many other places we can seek out additional feedback on our own stuff.

I will defend our judges to my last breath. Just as I will defend every DGrin user on here...until they break the user agreement.

Now then, I have cats that need water and about one year's worth of RAW files to mourn as a corrupt drive ate them. Things need attendin' to.

[photo-funtasia]

Tatiana didn't attack anyone personally. She expressed an opinion. Do I agree with it? No. But she expressed it civilly, and I can contradict it civilly. The judges here put time and thought into their decisions, and they give more time to critiquing their picks. We can learn just as much from C&C on others' photos as we can on our own, but there are many other places we can seek out additional feedback on our own stuff.

I will defend our judges to my last breath. Just as I will defend every DGrin user on here...until they break the user agreement.

Now then, I have cats that need water and about one year's worth of RAW files to mourn as a corrupt drive ate them. Things need attendin' to.

... and I expressed my gratitude to the judges replies to my questions.

About the "ignoring list" I was sure you did that long time ago, Aaron - I have to thank you for that :thumb

[divamum]

Tatiana -

Two comments of yours which perplex me:

The first is that you somehow thought not being selected was a personal attack, which baffles me. You're a respected contributor here, and the rotation of judges pretty much ensures that it can't become biased in that way. Besides, I've certainly never been aware of ANY kind of personal animosities spilling over into the ethics of judging. Sure, sometimes I think "huh? How could you blind judges include THAT shot!" (JOKING!!!) or "You're KIDDING me that So-and-so's shot wasn't included!" but that's the way it is in a subjective art. Tastes vary, and you're never going to change that! It's all good.

Secondly, how can judging photography be based on anything OTHER than likes and dislikes? Of course technical merit and theme-relevance are important, but art IS subjective - simply no way around it - and personal likes and dislikes are going to be part of it. When you were a judge a few rounds back didn't your own reactions come into play when you looked at those pictures?

As for feedback, I think it's important to distinguish between feedback, and validation. Getting selected as a finalist is *validation*, not critique; it tells us nothing more than that THAT judge on THAT day felt it was one of their favorite shots, and they included it. Sure, it makes us feel great but, really, it doesn't change the *image*. A different judge or even the same judge on a different day might have made a completely different decision. With the quality of entries in the challenges increasing exponentially, the competition is getting stiffer. EVERYBODY is having to work a little harder, and isn't necessarily getting the consistent *validation* they might have a while back.

Ultimately, all we can do is accept constructive feedback to improve our skills, and apply what we learn to every photo we take, striving for excellence at every opportunity. The DOING of it is sooo much more important than the results, or even than being VALIDATED (sure, it's nice, but it's really not what it's about IMO). Let your continued growth as a photographer be your validation rather than whether or not a judge selects your photo. Believe in your own art... sometimes against what other people may think (that's part of being an artist too - nobody ever said it was easy!)

In any case, sorry to beat the dead horse, but ... fwiw. On to #31!

[photo-funtasia]

Tatjana -

Two comments of yours which perplex me:

The first is that you somehow thought not being selected was a personal attack, which baffles me. You're a respected contributor here, and the rotation of judges pretty much ensures that it can't become biased in that way. Besides, I've certainly never been aware of ANY kind of personal animosities spilling over into the ethics of judging. Sure, sometimes I think "huh? How could you blind judges include THAT shot!" (JOKING!!!) or "You're KIDDING me that So-and-so's shot wasn't included!" but that's the way it is in a subjective art. Tastes vary, and you're never going to change that! It's all good.

Secondly, how can judging photography be based on anything OTHER than likes and dislikes? Of course technical merit and theme-relevance are important, but art IS subjective - simply no way around it - and personal likes and dislikes are going to be part of it. When you were a judge a few rounds back didn't your own reactions come into play when you looked at those pictures?

As for feedback, I think it's important to distinguish between feedback, and validation. Getting selected as a finalist is *validation*, not critique; it tells us nothing more than that THAT judge on THAT day felt it was one of their favorite shots, and they included it. Sure, it makes us feel great but, really, it doesn't change the *image*. A different judge or even the same judge on a different day might have made a completely different decision. With the quality of entries in the challenges increasing exponentially, the competition is getting stiffer. EVERYBODY is having to work a little harder, and isn't necessarily getting the consistent *validation* they might have a while back.


Hi Divamum,

Thank you for comment. - My name is Tatiana.

I never said that "not being selected was a personal attack"

I was not even talking about this - my question was regarding my initial entry
versus my final entry. That's it.

- As I explained I thought there were entries better than mine there.

I do work hard regardless how many participants in the contest, because all I want is
to have a good entry, winner or not. Of course everybody would like to be a winner -

When I had to judge, I did a HARD work and almost passed the 24 hour limit of submitting
the results - this because I expressly wanted to be as much objective, and as less subjective
as possible. Not only that I used to be an engineer and like accuracy, but I wanted to make
sure I will not offend anybody with a bad judgement, from all points of view.

I know even though there were unhappy people, but I tried to put every details and aspects
into balance, including the feelings of course, but not mainly the feelings.

Ultimately, all we can do is accept constructive feedback to improve our skills, and apply what we learn to every photo we take, striving for excellence at every opportunity. The DOING of it is sooo much more important than the results, or even than being VALIDATED (sure, it's nice, but it's really not what it's about IMO). Let your continued growth as a photographer be your validation rather than whether or not a judge selects your photo. Believe in your own art... sometimes against what other people may think (that's part of being an artist too - nobody ever said it was easy!)

This is exactly what I was saying...

In any case, sorry to beat the dead horse, but ... fwiw. On to #31!

I'm not sure what you mean by this.

Now, I'm sorry but it has been a along day for me so I'll stop here.

[divamum]

Spelling corrected - apologies!

[Katmitchell]

Okay, hold up now...

Kat, the dailies community is part of the SmugMug communities and is not directly linked to DGrin. I was an active part of that community for a year, and I can say for certain there isn't a huge crossover between people who participate in the dailies and those who are registered on DGrin. I can name a few, but it really isn't an overwhelming number. And even fewer the number who are in the dailies community, registered on DGrin, and participate in the challenges.

Asking for feedback elsewhere on an entry is kosher. Getting feedback from anywhere is fine, especially since feedback is especially craved 'round these parts. :D

Now, certainly, posting an image elsewhere and then asking a whole bunch of people to come vote for your photo here is not kosher. I haven't seen anyone doing this, but we certainly keep track of who is voting and can spot it if it suddenly does start to happen. The dailies community is HUGE. We'd notice if they suddenly all flooded us. :lol3

No one's done anything against the rules here. I hope more SmugMug people do come check out DGrin, and the challenges, and the SM communities are one way to keep our own community here growing. :thumb

We have that running joke about "blind judges" because it's so very hard to put your hard work out there time after time and have it not be chosen. Trust me, I know. I do it all the time, and it, frankly, sucks. But every time I get passed up, I look at my work that much harder, and I look at what beat me out, and I figure out how to make it even better the next time.

Everyone is entitled to voice their opinion here, as long as it's done civilly and with respect. So let's keep to our good track record, eh? :D

As a final note: dear judges, I would be lost and so overwhelmed without each and every one of you who has stepped up, and continues to step up, to help keep these challenges running. Thank you so very much for the time you put in here. In short, you rock! :bow

Kerry,

Ok.. So what you are saying is that I am personally attacking someone?
I do not feel that is what I was doing by having an opinion. I did not cuss or call names or even get nasty... I just spoke my opinion plainly... :scratch:scratch:scratch

So I am threatened with a banning for having a well spoken plain and too the point opinion ?

Also, I never said anything at all about the judges, that was not me that was photobug.. not me.. I have never had a problem with the judges ever...not once...

So, I guess ban me.. but it seems rather to keep a valid point buried, and I suppose there won't be anyone speaking up on it with the fear of being banned.... It was not my intention to attack anyone, I was just voicing my concerns based on my observations...

I have noticed of late on smug that you have to really roll your words in sugar. That is not my style.. I can understand if I was cussing or slandering someone or being outright cruel or immature, but I was NOT.... I am big on rules and respect you Kerry, but I don't feel I was breeching any rules....

Donna, "I did" think my statement through carefully before I typed it out... I even went and looked over the dailys and read the statements there as well as some of the mentioned communities.. I do not shoot from the hip..

And since real issues cause such a stir and stress, I will out of respect for you Kerry, cease with my comments and stay off the main boards..

Kat

[Tango]

you better not stop on these boards Kat, or there will be protest and the beginning of a mass strike until you come back! .... dont think It can be done? :D

[Llywellyn]

Kat, it was your second post that began to border on a personal attack and was what spurred my warning. Your first, while heated, was not directed at anyone personally. The post you quote above was in response to both your post and Tatiana's. I was never accusing you of saying anything about the judges.

Yes, speak up, let your opinions be known, but please be respectful while doing so. This doesn't mean "sugar-coating," but it also doesn't mean accusing an entire community of doing something wrong. :dunno

[VisualXpressions]

I just needed to jump in here to say, thanks everyone for the props and critique in the gallery comments on my shot! And for those who were wondering about the white thing above the gardeners head... It's a sign that says grapes with a grape cluster painted on it... I left it there on purpose to see how many people would say it was a distraction :D Jeff Meyers was the only one... :clap congratulations Jeff! :thumb :rofl:rofl:rofl

[photo-funtasia]

I just needed to jump in here to say, thanks everyone for the props and critique in the gallery comments on my shot! And for those who were wondering about the white thing above the gardeners head... It's a sign that says grapes with a grape cluster painted on it... I left it there on purpose to see how many people would say it was a distraction :D Jeff Meyers was the only one... :clap congratulations Jeff! :thumb :rofl:rofl:rofl


Well, to me also the sunflower was a distraction, but I didn't want to say it, because (as you told us)
you needed the best photo to show your wife that you can do a good photo of her... and I was sure you will show her the comments under your entry :rofl

[dlplumer]

Sports Fan

http://dlplumer.smugmug.com/photos/614980412_5AEXD-L.jpg

[VisualXpressions]

Would have got my vote Dan... :thumb

[dlplumer]

Would have got my vote Dan... :thumb

Shoot, I knew I should have entered this one.:rolleyes

[richtersl]

Sports Fan



:nono :jawdrop :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle :giggle

[dlplumer]

A jaw dropper from the Richters:ivar It doesn't get much better than that :barb

[photo-funtasia]

Sports Fan



I would have voted for this one too - perfect environment portrait :thumb
:rofl :rofl :rofl

... and I probably should have entered this one:

Happy Free Man

http://allbiz.smugmug.com/photos/616865362_wzRP6-L.jpg
:rofl

[Aspecto5]

Kerry,

Ok.. So what you are saying is that I am personally attacking someone?
I do not feel that is what I was doing by having an opinion. I did not cuss or call names or even get nasty... I just spoke my opinion plainly... :scratch:scratch:scratch

So I am threatened with a banning for having a well spoken plain and too the point opinion ?

Also, I never said anything at all about the judges, that was not me that was photobug.. not me.. I have never had a problem with the judges ever...not once...

So, I guess ban me.. but it seems rather to keep a valid point buried, and I suppose there won't be anyone speaking up on it with the fear of being banned.... It was not my intention to attack anyone, I was just voicing my concerns based on my observations...

I have noticed of late on smug that you have to really roll your words in sugar. That is not my style.. I can understand if I was cussing or slandering someone or being outright cruel or immature, but I was NOT.... I am big on rules and respect you Kerry, but I don't feel I was breeching any rules....

Donna, "I did" think my statement through carefully before I typed it out... I even went and looked over the dailys and read the statements there as well as some of the mentioned communities.. I do not shoot from the hip..

And since real issues cause such a stir and stress, I will out of respect for you Kerry, cease with my comments and stay off the main boards..

Kat

Yikes Kat! I can honestly say that i crawl through all the c&c threads, looking for ways and tips on how to improve. I certainly hope u continue, cuz there won't be much to read that is as indepth as your critiques. :bow

[ic4u]

Yikes Kat! I can honestly say that i crawl through all the c&c threads, looking for ways and tips on how to improve. I certainly hope u continue, cuz there won't be much to read that is as indepth as your critiques. :bow

What he said!

[michswiss]

I would have voted for this one too - perfect environment portrait :thumb
:rofl :rofl :rofl

... and I probably should have entered this one:

Happy Free Man

:rofl

I'm beginning to think you have a thing for Bus Drivers... :rofl

[kds1]

Yikes. You guys are kind of scary now. Don't scare us newbies off here! I talked one person in to doing dgrin challenges, so I feel kind of responsible for what he sees . . .

Let's all just enjoy our evenings and get back to photo work on another topic tomorrow (or whenever we can).

I have really enjoyed the dgrin forum and want it to remain professional and friendly, and this is the first time ever I've seen anything start spiraling downward (Okay, okay, so I have only lurked for a short time, but you know what I mean).

Peace, love and photography. :D

Kara

[Mad Cat]

I just needed to jump in here to say, thanks everyone for the props and critique in the gallery comments on my shot! And for those who were wondering about the white thing above the gardeners head... It's a sign that says grapes with a grape cluster painted on it... I left it there on purpose to see how many people would say it was a distraction :D Jeff Meyers was the only one... :clap congratulations Jeff! :thumb :rofl:rofl:rofl

I have to admit I did wonder what the hell it was.... I even wondered if it was a reflector of some kind!

[Katmitchell]

[quote=Llywellyn]Okay, hold up now...

Kat, the dailies community is part of the SmugMug communities and is not directly linked to DGrin. I was an active part of that community for a year, and I can say for certain there isn't a huge crossover between people who participate in the dailies and those who are registered on DGrin. I can name a few, but it really isn't an overwhelming number. And even fewer the number who are in the dailies community, registered on DGrin, and participate in the challenges.

Asking for feedback elsewhere on an entry is kosher. Getting feedback from anywhere is fine, especially since feedback is especially craved 'round these parts. :D

Now, certainly, posting an image elsewhere and then asking a whole bunch of people to come vote for your photo here is not kosher. I haven't seen anyone doing this, but we certainly keep track of who is voting and can spot it if it suddenly does start to happen. The dailies community is HUGE. We'd notice if they suddenly all flooded us. :lol3

===================================

Kerry,

I know feedback is important. I post on here for feedback too and love it.

You say there is not a cross over but there is, maybe not all at once, but there is.. You also said that I am accusing an entire community. I am not.. I am pointing out that certain individuals "work" these communities knowing full well what they are doing in asking for votes.. I can understand that they post there for cc, but to announce in those communities that they would appreciate votes and to label their photos as "possible challenge entries" is working the system..

If it did not work then why do they ask for votes?
as in "this statement" from photobug's own gallery quoted here:

http://allbiz.smugmug.com/gallery/6464803_UmdP9#565258900_FYoK4

"Warning

Ha, ha... I'm so happy to tell you that my "Art Gallery" photo (11 June)
made to the finals of the Dgrin contest #27: "Singular or Plural"!!!

Thank you so, so much for your support here :)

Your vote will be much appreciated:

Thank you again :) "

==============



She is ( outright ) asking for votes... and that is the point I am making that is all...

It is not fair to their fellow competitors and I do not respect that as true sportsmanship.. and they know better...

I am "not" attacking photobug, She made the statement about the dailys.. I just noticed this when I clicked on the link "she" posted...

My issue was with "fairness"........... that is all.....

[Llywellyn]

Kat, I understand what you're saying. In the rest of that text, I also stated that asking for votes was not kosher. I can't police any community outside DGrin, but I can and do watch like a hawk the votes that come in here. Just because someone is asking for votes does not mean they are getting them. Your supermods would see it. Trust us to do our (volunteer) jobs.

Just to reiterate what has been posted a few times in various threads: campaigning for votes goes against everything we've set the challenges up to accomplish. Don't do it. The consequences won't be enjoyable for anyone.
<!--EndFragment-->

[sgonen]

Shoot, I knew I should have entered this one.:rolleyes

Danny, nice shot! :clap
I was wondering if you ever got a written consent from the subject? :wink
BTW - nice attempt at lightening up the mood on this thread.:cry

[jwear]

welcome to the Tatiana thread ,well for a change of pace on my way to vote
Mark thank you Daniel the allen thanks you :D golfer thank you James the f4 is just not the same but a good lens photoeffects thank you I am not going to tell you about some of the folks I shot with :wink Curious thank you very much :thumb Divamum a bird portrait :rofl :rofl thank you and whiterice thank you I do try harder than sum :D
I will say again no flash was used by doing that in the field the birds will come back and share with you.I knew my shot was not going to the finals not just because it was a BIRD but it was also taken by jwear.I also had to post a hummer shot ,last challenge . Thank you all again :ivar Jeff

[Tango]

Yikes. You guys are kind of scary now. Don't scare us newbies off here! I talked one person in to doing dgrin challenges, so I feel kind of responsible for what he sees . . .
Kara


Kara, dont get chased off yet..... the challenges are better than any daytime drama on TV... (ok, Im talking out the yeahoo, I have no idea what soaps are really like other than the basics...) but still dont run of yet... I want to see your next entry!!!

[Tango]

Danny, nice shot! :clap
I was wondering if you ever got a written consent from the subject? :wink
BTW - nice attempt at lightening up the mood on this thread.:cry

Im surprised Danny didnt get clocked...:D

Shimon revenge is sweet...

[ic4u]

Kara, dont get chased off yet..... the challenges are better than any daytime drama on TV... (ok, Im talking out the yeahoo, I have no idea what soaps are really like other than the basics...) but still dont run of yet... I want to see your next entry!!!

Me too!
This group really is great and supportive, but from time to time, we hit our bumps....you just gotta roll through them! Please stick around, I personally have grown so much with my photography since I have been participating in this forum, don't give up yet!

[Mad Cat]

Kat, I understand what you're saying. In the rest of that text, I also stated that asking for votes was not kosher. I can't police any community outside DGrin, but I can and do watch like a hawk the votes that come in here. Just because someone is asking for votes does not mean they are getting them. Your supermods would see it. Trust us to do our (volunteer) jobs.

Just to reiterate what has been posted a few times in various threads: campaigning for votes goes against everything we've set the challenges up to accomplish. Don't do it. The consequences won't be enjoyable for anyone.
<!--EndFragment-->

Hi Kerry, I am so new to this (this is only my second contest) that maybe I'm not even entitled to an opinion here..... But is seems to me that A: Under no circumstances should judges be required (perhaps it should be forbidden) to justify their decisions to contest participants. I DID pm Greensquare myself because I was curious why my 1st image didn't make it and she was very helpfull. So perhaps these sort of exchanges, if not forbidden altogether,could be relegated to pm's between contestants and judges. Each individual judge could establish their own policy on whether they further critque the images or not. If these things are kept private, rather than posted out there for everybody to see, maybe losing contestants wouldn't feel so obligated to explain, justify, and argue on the public posts.

When Budweiser (or whoever) holds a contest to see who gets the free NASCAR tickets you always hear the same thing - "All judges' decisions are final."

Yep forming groups or whatever for the exclusive purpose of soliciting votes is uncool as hell. Somebody could form an exclusive invitation only group and if it gets large enough they could hold contests within contests, and take turns voting for members of their own groups.....

I'm having great fun with the past couple of contests I've entered because both of them have forced me to produce images I wouldn't have otherwise..... But you know, I don't even have any idea what the prize is if I win.... Why is it so important to win this thing that there's even the suspicion of foul play? I could offer one or two solutions though. The rules could be revised so that only people who enter the contest with valid images are eligible to vote.... Better yet, - a dgrinner who doesn't produce an image for the contest gets only one vote, while a true contestant with an image gets two or three votes, - only one of which can be used to vote for their own image......

Like I said I'm a newbie and my opinion probably doesn't mean a helluva lot, but I for my part am really enjoying this and would really like to see people come together, agree on some standard procedures, and get on with the more important business at hand - the images themselves. Thankyou for your time..... Wess/MadCat

[richtersl]

Me too!
This group really is great and supportive, but from time to time, we hit our bumps....you just gotta roll through them! Please stick around, I personally have grown so much with my photography since I have been participating in this forum, don't give up yet!

Like any other family, we have our dysfunctional moments. Things are worked out and life goes on. :dunno

Like Karin, I too, have grown so much with my photography since I've been a member of Dgrin.

[miskatonic_university]

I'm just wincing in case we all lose our privileges and the people who could have won their prizes... don't.

[richtersl]

I'm just wincing in case we all lose our privileges and the people who could have won their prizes... don't.

Not to worry. The moderators are on top of things.

[Tango]

:D :D maybe I'm not even entitled to an opinion here..... ..... Wess/MadCat

henceforth forever more you are knighted and dubbed with an entitlement...as long as you only vote for Canon shooters that is...:D :D

[Mad Cat]

Like any other family, we have our dysfunctional moments. Things are worked out and life goes on. :dunno

Like Karin, I too, have grown so much with my photography since I've been a member of Dgrin.

I'm so new to this that I just posed the question to Kerry - 'what the hell is at stake with these contests that people are suspecting foul l=play?" I mean if we're all competing for a brand new Nikon D3X I can see where people might get sneakyI and underhanded. If that's what these contests were about I'd get one of my underworld computer buddies to hack in to the really stiff competition images, put warts on the models' noses and blacken their teeth or something like that. But I sure wouldn't do anything dishonest! We're not even competing for free magazine subscriptions are we???? Why not keep it light and fun and friendly? And, Like Linda, I gotta admit Dgrin has pushed me a long way in a short time.... and I'm an old throwbackfilm shooter. Dgrin is too cool to implode. w

[Mad Cat]

:D :D

henceforth forever more you are knighted and dubbed with an entitlement...as long as you only vote for Canon shooters that is...:D :D

Semi personal question Bro - how old are you? My first autofocus camera was a Canon E0S 620 and every once in a while I'll see one in a pawn shop for 50 or 60 bucks and it brings a little tear to my eye.

Prior to the E0S 620 I shot with an A1 and an AE1 Program, as well as a Cannonete rangefinger with a 40mm fixed lens that made images so sharp
you could shave with them.

At this point in my life I'm a Nikon guy, but I've told more than one person that they're both the best of the best & don't even consider anything but. An I still entitiled??? w

[HoofClix]

An I still entitiled??? w
No, I hate to be the "bear-of-bad news," as my father always said, unless you are totally a Nikonite, you are not entitled. Just a simple fact.:D

Hey, my first camera was, still is, a Zeiss Ikon Kontaflex.. KEH has them for $15 I think...

And come on folks, toggle yer brightness bar, will ya???

[CAPTURED2H]

:D :D

henceforth forever more you are knighted and dubbed with an entitlement...as long as you only vote for Canon shooters that is...:D :D

wait a minute,you have gone too far this time :deal ?? what is a canon :dunno

[Tango]

Semi personal question Bro - how old are you? My first autofocus camera was a Canon E0S 620 and every once in a while I'll see one in a pawn shop for 50 or 60 bucks and it brings a little tear to my eye.

Prior to the E0S 620 I shot with an A1 and an AE1 Program, as well as a Cannonete rangefinger with a 40mm fixed lens that made images so sharp
you could shave with them.

At this point in my life I'm a Nikon guy, but I've told more than one person that they're both the best of the best & don't even consider anything but. An I still entitiled??? w

point taken, I was just trying to make you feel welcome... humor can have adverse affects via the internet....

[Mad Cat]

point taken, I was just trying to make you feel welcome... humor can have adverse affects via the internet....

Thanks Bro We could all use a lot of humor right now. I'm not clear now though - are you a Cannonite, or a Nikonian???

[dnie]

Sports Fan

http://dlplumer.smugmug.com/photos/614980412_5AEXD-L.jpg
my son says that is "creepy"

[Mad Cat]

Just so you know, I didn't produce that image, can't and actually come up with a situation in which I would. I don't find it particularyly offensive, but let's face it - our kids this stuff as muh as we do. Anyway, not MINE. w

[miskatonic_university]

I thought we were Nikonians?

[JAG]

Thank you all who have commented and given feedback on my image in the gallery. I really do appreciate your time in responding! I have learned so much from these challenges since I started doing them over a year ago...its amazing how they can push a person beyond what they originally thought they could ever accomplish!

I hope we continue to use these challenges as a learning forum. Thus why they are called 'challenges' and not called 'competitions'.:thumb

[marikris]

My high school photo teacher taught me to use only Nikon. But I have only ever used Canons since. I have a guilty conscience :rofl

[ghinson]

My high school photo teacher taught me to use only Nikon. But I have only ever used Canons since. I have a guilty conscience :rofl


Some people never learn!
:ivar

[HoofClix]

At least she feels guilt. Otherwise she'd be a "Canonopath..."
:duel

[miskatonic_university]

Is the tide turning yellow... are we aflush with Nikons here? :D Better than the red tide.... :hide

[marikris]

At least she feels guilt. Otherwise she'd be a "Canonopath..."
:duel

Haha. Let me win the lottery and I'll show ya what a canon-phile I am. As it happens, I'm just a closet one at the moment lol!

[michswiss]

Thanks to everyone that left comments in the gallery on my entry. It was very gratifying to read the feedback. I had walked past this gentleman several times over the last many weeks. His shop is one of five to six in a row on a side road I'll take walking home.

On this occasion, I noticed he had a lovely cat, so I stopped and spent 10-15 minutes petting the cat and 'chatting' with the gentleman. He would reach out and touch my shoulder on occasion, give me a thumbs-up. As usual, several of the other locals would start to notice and happily acknowledge my sitting with them.

I hadn't hid my camera at all and mid-way through I pointed at him and back to my camera and shrugged a question mark. He leaned back, tilted his head and posed for several shots. I've stopped by a couple of more times to 'visit' him and his cat. I'll probably have a small print made to give him as well.

I took the shot with the 50mm 1.4 on a D300. I would have preferred being slightly wider, but I think it worked out.

Here are a couple of extra shots from the same shop. The first is his cat and the second, him enjoying an ice cream. He's wearing the same shirt, but I promise it's a different night!

http://michswiss.smugmug.com/photos/618825688_HZD4k-M.jpg

http://michswiss.smugmug.com/photos/618826819_m23Vb-L-0.jpg

ps. I would have posted a thank you in the gallery, but for some reason I haven't been able to make that work...:scratch

[photo-funtasia]

Ha, ha I thought that the light was from the open door of a refrigerator...
but I couldn't figured out why the radio was inside :scratch

[jeffgroves]

First of all, thanks for the background on your "repose" portrait Jennifer. I still think it is an awesome portrait and would hope that you would indeed share a copy with the gentleman.

I too, would like to thank everyone that took time to make a comment on my photo. Usually it takes me about the length of the contest to figure out what I am going to submit so haven't been real good about posting in the "pre-game" c&c forum. I will try to get better at that with my next entry.

Following Jennifer's lead, here is a little background on my fighter. Initially I was going to post this one, but I started to get nervous with the idea of posting a sepia photo (I am not as confident as whiterice is with the tones), plus I wanted to get in closer to his face and eyes. This photo was taken after about six rounds of sparring with one of his students. It was about 90 degrees in this old warehouse gym and I didn't capture the sweat as well as I would have liked.

http://jeffgroves.smugmug.com/photos/619029455_ARvb4-L.jpg

Kyle Harrell is an amateur boxer, but don't let that title fool you. He really is a mild mannered, Clark Kent kind of guy outside of the ring and Superman when he puts his gloves on. His look actually changes when he gets ready to box and he doesn't even have to take of any glasses.

I met Kyle, a trainer as well as a fighter, when I first started shooting at the gym about 8 months ago. He is the "real deal". It is hard for him to even get a fight because it is rare that he bumps into someone at his level (determined by experience as well as weight). Many are trying to convince him to "go pro", but he has continued to fight as an amateur because he knows that once he has one professional fight, he will never be able to fight amateur again.

He is so excited that I used his photo for a contest! I too, am going to have to see that he gets a print.

[richtersl]

There's nothing wrong with that sepia toning -- it looks great! :thumb I also like the crop.

But then, your entry was damn good too!

[JAG]

Its great to see the history behind the shots as Jennifer and Jeff have shared. So I thought I would give you the run down on my shot.

Basically its a pretty straight forward shot...my lil one who is the joy of my life and often the object of my photos is such a chatter box and she had just gotten off the phone when I thought to set this shot up. She never seems to sit upright in this particular chair so its a natural as any 10 year old would think to chat on the phone hanging up side down!

At first when I opened the image in bridge I had fixed the color some as it had such a green cast from the green carpet and green hued wall. The yellow light added an interesting glow while there was a flash held up to the right and some very large windows to the left. I then added the vinette originally in bridge but later I brought the image to pspX2 and ran a clarifying filter to make it pop. Very simular to giving it almost a sinthisized HDR look in pp.
This was the result and I almost used this one as my final entry...
http://jagcreations.smugmug.com/photos/605633337_Kxf2W-L-1.jpg
Even though there was good feedback on this something just didn't look right. I desided it was the vinette, the shadow on the forhead, and the slight slant to the back of the chair.
So back to square one in bridge working with the original...I made the adjustments to the colors like before....then used the straighting tool and straightened and cropped the image. Next I brought it back into pspX2 and added a tranparent layer and made it into a mask layer with black. This way I could remove the part of the mask that was over lampshade and darken the mask around her hair without loosing too much of the background. I ran the clarifing filter again too.
I then lightened the forehead using a clone tool on soft brush set to about 23% This is the result...
http://jagcreations.smugmug.com/photos/606373208_fb7nq-L-1.jpg

The biggest blessing about this whole thing is that my lil one who has a disease that is called Alopecia Areata which is basicly her immune system attacks her hair folicals for no reason. She has periods of remission but two days after this shoot she lost quite a bit amount of hair on the right side and top and back of her head. So we now will have to wait for the hair to return (it can start growing anywhere from a week to several years later) or she can go totally bald which is always a possibility with her having this since she was a baby. But we now have the portrait of her with all her crowning glory hanging down!

She told me yesterday that if she does loose it all then she wants to have a long black haired wig and a hot pink one for when she feels like dressing up!....LOL:rofl :lust :cry

[Tango]

:thumb hot pink! my littlest one just got hot pink strands and just so cute!
so if she has a period of loss tell her I said Hot Pink Rocks!

[Tango]

http://jeffgroves.smugmug.com/photos/619029455_ARvb4-S.jpg.


fwiw, if you had used this crop above in the entry I know you would have received one more vote... :deal


loved the work here!

[photo-funtasia]

fwiw, if you had used this crop above in the entry I know you would have received one more vote... :deal


loved the work here!

Even though I'm in the state of "ignoring Aaron" :wink I agree with his comment - right! :thumb

Great perception Aaron.

[dlplumer]

Even though I'm in the state of "ignoring Aaron" :wink I agree with his comment - right! :thumb

Great perception Aaron.

He can't hear you.:wink

Wait, let me pass this on to him. Hey Aaron, Tatiana agrees with you :rofl :thumb

Danny

[divamum]

He can't hear you.:wink

Wait, let me pass this on to him. Hey Aaron, Tatiana agrees with you :rofl :thumb

Danny

:lol4 :rofl

[HoofClix]

Did somebuddy say something??

[dlplumer]

:lol4 :rofl

So glad you appreciated that Diva. :feelgood

[photo-funtasia]

He can't hear you.:wink

Wait, let me pass this on to him. Hey Aaron, Tatiana agrees with you :rofl :thumb

Danny

Thank you Dan - I know that actually he's ignoring me not vice-versa :rofl

Anyway regardless of who's doing what, I appreciate your effort :thumb

I hope his not ignore you as well... :rofl

[Tango]

He can't hear you.:wink

Wait, let me pass this on to him. Hey Aaron, Tatiana agrees with you :rofl :thumb

Danny

its all fun & games until someone puts an eye out:deal ... or puts a scorpion in someones shoe during the next PCTL meet up:D

[jeffgroves]

Somewhere in there I think I received a compliment....
Glad that I was a source of agreement, I should get an award or something! :dunno

Happy to see you guys bounce back a bit!

[Mad Cat]

I thought we were Nikonians?

Yes Brother I've been a Nikonian for quite a while now... I actually should revisit the site & see if I can still remember my password. One I discovered Smug and Grin, I kind of lost interest in all others. This is where it's at for me....

Mosrly I shoot with D80, occaisionally my good old bullet proof f90. SB 600 flash and a multitude of Nikon/aftermarket lenses. You> w

[Mad Cat]

Somewhere in there I think I received a compliment....
Glad that I was a source of agreement, I should get an award or something! :dunno

Happy to see you guys bounce back a bit!

Please elaborate.... you lost me on that one. :scratch w

[Mad Cat]

Somewhere in there I think I received a compliment....
Glad that I was a source of agreement, I should get an award or something! :dunno

Happy to see you guys bounce back a bit!

Negative copy, over. w

[Mad Cat]

Thank you Dan - I know that actually he's ignoring me not vice-versa :rofl

Anyway regardless of who's doing what, I appreciate your effort :thumb

I hope his not ignore you as well... :rofl

Hi it's Wess/Mad Cat guy. I am so new to this I can't tell if you are talking to each other, or if I somehow am included in this discusion. Photobug please clarify..... thanks w

[Tango]

madcat, dont stress, none of those posts are directed at you or reference you.

[photo-funtasia]

Hi it's Wess/Mad Cat guy. I am so new to this I can't tell if you are talking to each other, or if I somehow am included in this discusion. Photobug please clarify..... thanks w


I was referring to a discussion between Aaron, and me, as a joke...

- Thank you Aaron for your clarification :thumb

* it was actually between Dan and me regarding Aaron... I even don't know anymore what I'm saying...

[Tango]

Somewhere in there I think I received a compliment....
Glad that I was a source of agreement, I should get an award or something! :dunno

Happy to see you guys bounce back a bit!

Jeff, yes I was complimenting you, personally I was having a hard time deciding between your entry and another, it came down to the cropping of your entry, the framing just didnt seem to work for me, and after seeing your orig crop I was trying to make the point that I would have voted your way with the framing of your shot here on this thread...(not that one vote matters)

p.s. Im not sure if your accusing me of bouncing back?:D , but I really dont care to be associated in anyway with photobug.... Kat made some very compelling points about the issue only to help solidify my original judgements, didnt those facts bother any of you?

[jeffgroves]

p.s. Im not sure if your accusing me of bouncing back?:D

I did say "a bit" :D

[photo-funtasia]

Hi everybody,

I know some days back I made an "affirmation" (actually not exactly affirmation) that I shouldn't have made,
along with my questions to Allen regarding his comments on my second entry to the contest, vs. my first one.

It was: "I hope this is not personal"

I sent to him my apologies and he absolved me from having done anything wrong.

I will however make it publicly too: I'm sorry, and I can assure you that my intention was much less bad that
it appeared into some eyes. Less or more, I agree that I shouldn't have made it.

- Things have been discussed and I hope you guys can absolve me for doing that mistake too. Thanks.

Starting from that point though, things went way to far and I actually have been seriously hurt by very grave
accusations regarding my integrity and honesty.

I'm sorry that I'm bringing this back into the scene, but I realize that I owe you all some clarifications, without which
I cannot go further and participate in this Dgrin community.

Sad to see that somebody wanted to put me into a bad light at any price - in other words:
if I was not guilty for asking, at least I could be found guilty for something else...

DSS #27 is an old story - nobody knows what happened and Kerry, managed to stop
all discussions in a wonderful manner - too bad it has been re-opened here with the purpose
of incriminating me for doing dishonest things...

I'd like to tell you that I'm proud and happy to be part of the "Daily Photo" community. It's a SmugMug community
of very honorable people. (It's not a community that I created with the specific purpose of obtaining votes into
the contests).

At the "Daily Photo" community, we all help and support each other and my photographic skills have really grown up there.
We are talking about our work, even minor personal problems (sometimes) and we are happy to announce about events
in our life, or realizations we have. I always thank to them for their support.

Several times I even suggested to some to come and participate with their beautiful work in the DGrin contests.
- I wouldn't have done this if my only purpose was to win no matter what.

I was proud to tell them that my entry made it to the finals and I never thought there was anything wrong saying that
their vote would be appreciated. They could go and vote for me or for other entries. There are other people in
that community part of the DGrin contests - I'm not the only one.

I'd like to clarify that if I wanted to cheat, I would have deleted that note. The fact that I didn't shows actually
that my intention was not to cheat.

In addition: that thing happened few months ago and we are daily posting things - I'm amazed to see how
determined could somebody be to dig so deeply into my past, for evidence to accuse me.

Anyway, as JAG mentioned these here are "challenges" not (national)"competitions" and I think they should
be meant to help us progress into the photography, not to transform us into enemies.

I really hope that these kind of unfounded accusations will never happen again.

With this being said and your permission, I'm ending this ugly chapter - let's go on being friendly and with no hate.

Thank you for your attention.

[HoofClix]

Here-Here Tatiana!:beer

[photo-funtasia]

Here-Here Tatiana!:beer


You got it :) :thumb

Cheers! :beer

[Katmitchell]

I cannot believe I am posting this message... I had decided to back out of the entire board, however, I would like to do so without everyone feeling I am a horrible person.... I have always gotten along with everyone...

First off... I did not go digging for anything... All anyone has to do is "READ" the entire thread to see that..

Tatiana, you posted the link to the comments on your photo,
"I simply looked at it"..I did not go on some "witch hunt" as you claim.

And for the record. It was on all your DG entries, not just one from the distant past. Furthermore, I am not the only person to notice this practice, others "have noticed" it too... I just decided to step up and stand up about it...

This will not be the first time you start trouble and then play the victim card...

You are acting as if you were attacked... Lets not forget "you" posted the link to your comments..

If it does not bother anyone else, then fine.. It does bother me, because I feel that you know exactly what you are doing..

As far as using Jag's words on challenges VS competitions.. well, I can say that, I am not the one that was complaining I had not been voted for, and caused a stink over it.. I have always been a great sport about it all, and
I was not the one complaining about the judges..

What can I say.... You pointed out the cheating, I made a point of it not being fair... and "I" get threatened with personally attacking someone for pointing out what "they themselves" brought up..

From everyone's remarks, I can see your really good at this and personally I don't have any further time to waste on the baby games I have witnessed...

I was here to learn and help, not play adult baby games, and sue me for wanting things to be fair and on the level for everyone involved, whether you call them challenges or contests... you would think "fair" is still important..

It was my previous intention to close my account and back away... but Kerry I cannot figure out how to do that.. so please shut it down for me....

I have nothing more to say.... but this,,, all of the friends that I have made and you know who you are, I just could not let her paint me out to be some bad person that went digging dirt on her when that "is not" what happened..

Unlike some, I am not posting this for attention or sympathy. I have thought my decision through carefully, and I am backing out for good reason... Hopefully things can return to normal and you guys can get back to what you truly love..

I wish everyone the best.. The majority of you here are "mature" and don't play into the games, and you have awesome talent, and have taught me so much,,,.. and thank you for that..:thumb

Kat

[marikris]

I usually just lurk, but I didn't like to see where this was going. Let's just, as a community, move on. Please, Kat, don't cancel you're account over something like this. If those who are involved don't mention the word "Ignore," (and I'm just saying hypothetically, not calling out anybody) you are doing a better job ignoring the other person by not even referring to him or her. By bringing it up, it just exacerbates the situation :dunno It also cuts down on sides being chosen, etc etc.

I'm sure everyone has learned something already. I didn't know there were other Smugmug places I could troll, which is awesome. And let's all put back the *grin* on dgrin.

Now back to the dark with me :)

[kds1]

I know I have just started on the forum and don't really 'know' either of you. But here are my observations about this whole thing and my hope.

tatiana wanted feedback on why her photo wasn't chosen, and a lot of us really like honest c&c, myself included. It was pointed out to her that the before-challenge threads would be a good place for that, that there is also the c&c thread. So I take that to mean that she was in the wrong to ask for it from the judges after the fact. Since she apologized to the judge, apparently she took it to mean that also. That was a learning point for me - I know now where to go for c&c, and that's good.

Email/forums/writing are probably the worst way to express feelings. It is way to easy to misinterpret 'tone of voice', mood, etc. I think maybe all parties involved did some of that at all turns. Hard not to on email without talking to a person fact to face to gather all the visual nuances of communication.

That being said, and not wanting this to turn into yet another heated conversation or a thread that has people writing in to support one person or another - can we not just drop this and move on without ANYONE leaving the forum? All people involved are people that I have learned from as a 'lurker' by reading posts and studying their photos. All people involved have things to contribute and all involved probably misread or misunderstood or 'took the wrong way', or too critically, things that were posted on the infamous thread.

Can we all not just drop this and move on with no further comment on this? it was done, it was not good, it wasn't pretty, everyone makes mistakes, let's all remain with the forum and continue to work on photography.

Just my 2 cents.

kara:dunno

[nightpixels]

Hi Kat,

Why should you let one person's comments make you want to close your account? I haven't seen anybody (else) accuse you of anything.

Let's just stop the blame game here and move on!

Hey I will be needing your C&Cs for this round on some Yosemite shots I will be taking this weekend, so don't be going anywhere :D

I think I am at a point that I really wished that Kerry would just go ahead and close this thread so we could all move on to the next round! :huh

[marikris]

Or let's start a new conversation going :D

What did you guys find the hardest about the topic? I didn't enter because, not only do I not know anybody since moving lol, I couldn't figure out how to portray myself as both a photographer and an illustrator. For some reason, I felt like I had to choose, and in the end, I couldn't.

[Llywellyn]

Okay, I think all the points have been made:

- Our judges are awesome, and we are all thankful for them
- Soliciting for votes is not okay and never has been
- Nobody here is on a witch hunt
- We don't want anybody who loves it here to leave this community

To add to that:

- Your awesome mods can only monitor what occurs on DGrin. So we can tell you soliciting for votes is not allowed, but we can only actively stop it on the boards. One of the ways we do this is monitoring where votes come from in the polls.
- The above comment is simply a reiteration of the official challenge rules. It is a reminder, and it should not be misconstrued as anything personal.
- I am the coolest chick on the planet and you should all pay homage in the form of brownies. Copious amounts of brownies.
- ...uh, ignore that last one. Sorry.

[Tango]

Kat,

I do not accept you leaving due to this. Take a break and I fully expect to see you here on the next round. please?

Your voice here is to valuable.



Tataina, Im moving on, sorry for our differences and I look forward to a new day. sorry I said that I refused to be associated with you, your an artist.. how could I not be?

may I suggest, that nobody try to get the last word or drag this on any longer...
concentrate on why your here, involve yourself in a postive manner or I believe there will be some kinda of a mode of lockdown coming.... and that would suck.

seriously....

[Tango]

Or let's start a new conversation going :D

What did you guys find the hardest about the topic? I didn't enter because, not only do I not know anybody since moving lol, I couldn't figure out how to portray myself as both a photographer and an illustrator. For some reason, I felt like I had to choose, and in the end, I couldn't.

:D hardest?
[caveman voice]
shooting people hard.

[divamum]

- I am the coolest chick on the planet and you should all pay homage in the form of brownies. Copious amounts of brownies.
- ...uh, ignore that last one. Sorry.

Brownies...? Did somebody say ... BROWNIES???!!!

:D :D :D :D :D

:bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow :bow

[marikris]

:D hardest?
[caveman voice]
shooting people hard.

LOL way to get to the heart of the matter!

[photo-funtasia]

I was really late with my writing I was showing the real link I provided.

I just edited this and deleted my comments.

[photo-funtasia]

Tataina, Im moving on, sorry for our differences and I look forward to a new day. sorry I said that I refused to be associated with you, your an artist.. how could I not be?

may I suggest, that nobody try to get the last word or drag this on any longer...
concentrate on why your here, involve yourself in a postive manner or I believe there will be some kinda of a mode of lockdown coming.... and that would suck.

seriously....

Aaron, I'm happy to hear this. Thank you and I'd like to say that "our differences" don't bother me.

I do appreciate you art too (more than mine) and I think you are a let's say... funny guy :thumb

[miskatonic_university]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I present...

THE INTERNETS.

Thank you. Thank you.
:andy :smack :encore

*edit: sorry to hear about your hd crash Llewellyn.

[photo-funtasia]

Well,

INTERNETS - right :) I wish it was just that...

However I haven't insulted this person and her last violent and unfair attack,
to me is actually intolerable.

I don't know how Dgrin accepts this, but I personally don't.

If all "her" friends know who I am from her point of view, and if they are
part of DGrin, it's obvious that I don't have a place here.

This is way too much for me.

[marikris]

Gosh. We were doing so well, let's keep going with positive stuff lol.

[Llywellyn]

Okay, that's enough. Everything that can be said has been said on the matter, and the rest is personal. Take the personal to PMs, please. The public has enough here to make their own decisions and move on. It is time to move on.

[miskatonic_university]

I apologize Kerry, I wasn't trying to stir the pot. I was trying to be humourous. Trying to light up the room :wink .

This is the internet and there are very little, if any, consequences to things that are written on it. We are all anonymous and these forums can't hurt us physically or effect our daily lives. That is, unless you let them.

I used to take forum posts personally, I used to get angry. It is very easy to misconstrue intent because there is no inflection in text.

I'm sorry if I overspiced the stew, here. I'll just collect my cumin and marjoram and work on my next entry. Good luck all. Hopefully, there's no hospitals in this one. I'm not going back!

[photo-funtasia]

I apologize Kerry, I wasn't trying to stir the pot. I was trying to be humourous. Trying to light up the room :wink .

This is the internet and there are very little, if any, consequences to things that are written on it. We are all anonymous and these forums can't hurt us physically or effect our daily lives. That is, unless you let them.

I used to take forum posts personally, I used to get angry. It is very easy to misconstrue intent because there is no inflection in text.

I'm sorry if I overspiced the stew, here. I'll just collect my cumin and marjoram and work on my next entry. Good luck all. Hopefully, there's no hospitals in this one. I'm not going back!

You didn't "miskatonic" - I did and I'll stop right here.

Your post was very nice and humorous. I personally liked it - sorry to have spoiled it.

[miskatonic_university]

Ok then...


just a little :encore :smack

[jwear]

How about you all roll this thread into challenge 31 -----CLOSED

[Tentacion]

YOWZA......I missed entering my entry....and I missed this debate....Sheesh, I miss all the excitement...Hmmmm, probably better I did, cuz I can be quite outspoken at times.........:rofl :wink :D :clap :ivar :barb


On another note: CONGRATS to all the finalists, and hello to all those that missed me....LOL LOL LOL .

Peace,
Donna P.

[Tango]

hey Donna, wanna give us the run down to your whereabouts? this is a feedback thread, so feedback:D

[photo-funtasia]

http://allbiz.smugmug.com/photos/620423036_woMdF-L.jpg

Dust in the wind (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjGF6Hrxj9w&feature=related)

(Please don't take it wrong)

[sherstone]

Just in case anybody was wondering if I would ever get to making my comments in the gallery (http://dgrin.smugmug.com/gallery/9054314_hzW8C).... I have just finished commenting on all of the images.

Thanks again for all your great feedback and for just being here to participate in this great community.


EDIT: oh my, 700 posts (not really a milestone but cool)

[photo-funtasia]

Thank you for your comment Sean :)

The feed-back it's so much important and needed, because after-all each of us
put a lot of work and energy on our entry, and even more, we put part of our soul into it.

It feels very frustrating seeing that our "baby" doesn't receive at least a little attention...

Congratulations on your 700! :clap

[kds1]

Thanks, sherstone for your comments on my entry. I gotcha on the crop, and agree completely. It helps to know that someone else was thinking the same thing as I was about the crop! And yeah, it was supposed to look very set up/contrived on purpose.

And thanks everyone who commented on my entry. Great to get feedback and insight. Now that I know how to post/enter challenges, I'm going to try the Open Closed one, too!

I really appreciate the welcomes and insight!

Kara

[Tentacion]

hey Donna, wanna give us the run down to your whereabouts? this is a feedback thread, so feedback:D

Hey Aaron, I just got back from Oregon, it was GREATTTTTT. I was glad to see mountains, and trees (lots of them). Just got back from the "Woodstock" thing here in Pompano Beach, "Rained Out", so I went an ate chicken wings....Now it is NAP TIME..:D

I had an entry for Environmental portrait, but things just got so busy on this end that I missed the deadline, "once again"...gonna try and make the next one..:huh

Stay cool, and keep things jumping, always good to have a little excitement around here to keep things involved..LOL LOL LOL LOL.:rofl

I don't like gossip but it sure entertains me...ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.:bow

Peace, :wink
Donna P.

PS: Again congrats to the finalists and all those that entered.

[Aspecto5]

Thank u Sean. That was my first time asking a stranger to be a model, and he was a good sport. but i felt the pressure of using up his time and rushed through everything. lol! i'll definitely readjust the aperture in future situations where i need the background out of focus to begin with. :D