What I want from The Refinery -- An Ongoing Discussion

[michswiss]

Ok, I'm going to step into this, if only to get the conversation going. The Whipping Post, ahem, The Refinery is back except there's a difference. Lots of comments and suggestions were discussed on how to improve the critiquing forum on DGrin. It's ours now, so here goes.

What I want from The Refinery. I think I've learned my lesson from the WP closure that the regular forums can be used to good effect for thorough feedback and critique on genre-specific topics. The Refinery will be my refuge and source of insight when I'm just not sure what to do with a particular shot that I feel has merit or bones. I'll look to the team to go into it in detail to help me take it apart and then bring my ideas back together.

So, when I post something to The Refinery, I'll make an attempt to describe what or where I think I need insight. I won't be offended if the critique is pointed or difficult and I'll enjoy it if the discussion takes completely unexpected turns so long as it stays focussed on sharing and learning. A Master Class of some form.

What do you want from The Refinery?

[DsrtVW]

I guess I had been a bit out of touch. I did not know they shut down the Whipping Post. I had posted a few times there in the past(over a year ago) but seemed to have better responses on the picture genre related forums.

I do like the new direction statements. From what I remember it seemed that there were a lot of shots that were not the best works from people. SO the statement of what the photog is trying to accomplish and what they saw and the final goal. Would help in the C&C

Best to all who attempt Refinement

[Cygnus Studios]

I rarely posted in the original WP, but felt very strongly that a place for those wanting a critique should be present. Most of us would agree that we can all benefit from a different perspective when viewing our images. I am very happy that the powers that be gave us this 2nd chance to have a section for critiques.

In the real world, my clients base their opinions of my images from the sales received of that particular product. They could care less about the artistic or photographic value of the image itself.

While I am happy that they choose to continue to use my services regularly, I still want to expand my photographic capabilities. I will try hard to use this new section as often as my schedule permits with the hope that fresh eyes will inspire me to reach further, and possibly into new directions.

For anyone who chooses to critique my work, please do not hold back. My skin is very thick and comments are not taken personally. If it blows chunks, tell me so, but tell me why. If I get lucky and the image rocks, look hard for any way to improve it. My post processing skills are darn limited, so please share any techniques that would improve any image I post.

Thanks!

[D'Buggs]

If I were to "C&C" the decision of the new model/forum, is that there's no flood control...... I foresee a plethora of images being put up on the block and threads getting buried.

NICE to know that effort is being made to satisfy though! (hows dat for a hamburger? :rofl ).

[DavidTO]

If I were to "C&C" the decision of the new model/forum, is that there's no flood control...... I foresee a plethora of images being put up on the block and threads getting buried.

NICE to know that effort is being made to satisfy though! (hows dat for a hamburger? :rofl ).

there is flood control, it's just up to the community.

[michswiss]

there is flood control, it's just up to the community.

Yep, that's the point of my having started this thread in the first place. If we don't continue to discuss what we want from The Refinery then there isn't any point to have it.

My gut says that this forum is and will be extremely fragile to maintain as a useful outlet and component of DGrin. In my opinion, dropping shots into here without an explicit reason will dilute the value, especially as the other forums could, and should be willing to be harsh and detailed on C&C.

For what it's worth, I also feel a legitimate reason to post a shot here is to specifically provide a training ground for learning critiquing skills. So, I'd love it if one or more of our AIRs would be willing to place otherwise unassailable shots here so we could learn how to objectively rip them apart.

[Edit to add] If I were to add one aspect of flood control to this forum, it would be that no fresh shots are allowed. A link should be provided back to the original post on DGrin in the appropriate forum so that that feedback can be taken into account before starting anew in The Refinery.

[Miguel Delinquento]

If I were to "C&C" the decision of the new model/forum, is that there's no flood control...... I foresee a plethora of images being put up on the block and threads getting buried.
[deleted]

Some people would not call this a problem. It never happened in the WP and it has not happened here. In the WP, most shots got some attention. The ones that got ignored mostly didn't belong there to begin with.

I want to believe that we have enough artculate, tactful, and outgoing individuals in this "community" who will speak up if we are slacking off or taking more than giving.

M

[Halite]

Some people would not call this a problem. It never happened in the WP and it has not happened here. In the WP, most shots got some attention. The ones that got ignored mostly didn't belong there to begin with.

I want to believe that we have enough artculate, tactful, and outgoing individuals in this "community" who will speak up if we are slacking off or taking more than giving.

M

The water analogy is appropriate to describe the old WP: there was definitely an ebb and a flow to the current of submissions and critiques. Never did there seem to be a need for floodgates--occasional rechanneling maybe, but not floodgates. I'm looking forward to what the Refinery will produce.

[KevXman]

What do I want from The Refinery? Hmm...

As a poster - I would like to hear what is working, what is not working and some suggestions on how to fix what's "wrong".

From another poster – I would like to know up front (in the first post):
1. What is the intended subject/topic/central theme of your image?
2. How did you go about trying to achieve that? (Specific manual settings on the camera, compositional set-up, external lighting, etc.)
3. What do YOU think is working or not working?

Now, what do I not want from/in the refinery. It doesn't really matter to me one way or the other if someone starts over in one of the themed threads trying to improve their image before coming to The Refinery for the last little tweaks and finishing touches or if they actually start in The Refinery. Either way, I expect the person to do more than just posting a picture with "What do you think?". If you're in The Refinery its because you are honestly trying to make an image the best that it can be. This takes an effort on everyone's part so you should show that you are doing you part as well. I know that it can be difficult to critique your own stuff, but do your best and put it in the first post to get the ball rolling.

I'm sure there is more that I wanted to say but this is pretty much the jist of it. Thanks for listening.

— Kevin

[timk519]

I think this should be an on-going discussion, and this thread should get "sticky"ed.

[DavidTO]

I think this should be an on-going discussion, and this thread should get "sticky"ed.


Done.

[HoofClix]

Thanks to the mods for birthing this baby!

"What I want" is the operative word here. I am here mostly because I get to hear a wide variety of criticism from a wide range of skill levels as well as just artistic viewpoints.... I enjoy hearing all of the opinions about composition, crop, etc., need to hear that, but also learn of the existence of certain post processing techniques. In a lot of cases I haven't even known existed.. I then take that and put it to use in my own stuff.. Hopefully we all do that.

What I give back to the Refinery is not the question that was asked, but I imagine myself as the type who feels responsible to give back when I've received. I'll do that as much as I can, but if someone else has made my point, I will tend to leave it at that. I expect and want to hear if someone doesn't agree with my opinion..

[Mr. Quiet]

I think most people who post here are not the kind of people who will take a crappy shot, a snapshot at that!

What do I want from the Refinery? I got what I wanted with my Spiral thread, check it out if you want. People gave me their opinions and let me know how I could improve my technique and picture. Of course there are going to be differing opinions, but you yourself can sift through them, right? So, IMHO, the Refinery is getting and giving what it should.:thumb

[Miguel Delinquento]

The flood control discussion got me thinking about image management within a shared resource. One rule from the WP that I think was effective was the one shot per poster per week.

Occasionally I will fall in love with a new technique, run off 1000 shots, and want feedback on 50 of 'em. That's at least 49 more shots than most folks here would want to see during a week.

So, I'm proposing that we revive that one shot per submitter per week rule around here.

David--stop smirking :rolleyes

M

[anwmn1]

The flood control discussion got me thinking about image management within a shared resource. One rule from the WP that I think was effective was the one shot per poster per week.

Occasionally I will fall in love with a new technique, run off 1000 shots, and want feedback on 50 of 'em. That's at least 49 more shots than most folks here would want to see during a week.

So, I'm proposing that we revive that one shot per submitter per week rule around here.

David--stop smirking :rolleyes

M

I don't think this is necessary. Maybe everyone will feel fine providing comments on your 50 shots or maybe you will get called out on it. Let it be for awhile before any restrictions get placed on it. Isn't that what everyone complained about the first place?

BTW- I know you wouldn't post 50 shots of a similar shoot or process style on one forum. :wink

[Mr. Quiet]

The flood control discussion got me thinking about image management within a shared resource. One rule from the WP that I think was effective was the one shot per poster per week.

Occasionally I will fall in love with a new technique, run off 1000 shots, and want feedback on 50 of 'em. That's at least 49 more shots than most folks here would want to see during a week.

So, I'm proposing that we revive that one shot per submitter per week rule around here.

David--stop smirking :rolleyes

M

I suggested that in the beginning but no one listened to me.

[Halite]

The flood control discussion got me thinking about image management within a shared resource. One rule from the WP that I think was effective was the one shot per poster per week.

Occasionally I will fall in love with a new technique, run off 1000 shots, and want feedback on 50 of 'em. That's at least 49 more shots than most folks here would want to see during a week.

So, I'm proposing that we revive that one shot per submitter per week rule around here.

David--stop smirking :rolleyes

M

I may be naive on this point, but I think the forum can be self-regulating in this regard. If someone starts spamming the forum, we could ignore the excess at first, then issue warnings and moderators could ban as a last resort, if necessary.

Otherwise, if someone has more than one good image in a week and others want to view and critique them, why put a brake on the discourse?

[KevXman]

I may be naive on this point, but I think the forum can be self-regulating in this regard. If someone starts spamming the forum, we could ignore the excess at first, then issue warnings and moderators could ban as a last resort, if necessary.

Otherwise, if someone has more than one good image in a week and others want to view and critique them, why put a brake on the discourse?

I'd have to agree with this. I don't think that we need to put in a hard and fast rule on the number of images someone can post per week. If someone starts to go overboard they are sure to get called out on it (hopefully in a friendly way) by one of us. I think "THE RULES" should have some elasticity to them. Besides they really shoudn't be called rules, they're more like guidelines. We're all so-called adults and should be able to play nice.:thumb
— Kevin

[photostuff]

Excuse me for stating the obvious, but didn't we just have a forum with the same goals of "The Refinery", called "The Whipping Post"? :scratch. At least "The Whipping Post" didn't sound like a place that produces petrochemical pollutants.
As for my opinion, If I want a genuine, honest, objective critique of a photo, it does not matter in what specific forum it is. I think it is OK to have one central forum for all photo criticism, but hardly essential either. In short, I do not grasp all the hoopla over this, although I do understand it is very important to some.

[Mr. Quiet]

Exactly, it is very important to the people that are not pro and want to get better.....like me for instance:ivar

[D'Buggs]

I do not grasp all the hoopla over this....


I believe the *idea*, is, that the Refrinery could make it somewhat easier for people not only to recieve C&C but for those willing to give also, by finding requests under one roof; instead of flipping through all the pages on the site and gettin' sore thumbs. :D


Only time will tell how well it works...

[HoofClix]

Kuddos to you for at "least" asking to use the image..:huh I have noticed a nasty habit of people grabbing people's images onto their hard drives and re-posting them without asking permission..:scratch.. in this forum and others.. Not very professional in my opinion..:deal

Kat
Thanks for the moral lesson Kat. The only reason people do this (especially in this forum), is because they're trying to help. D'Buggs asked to be hit over the head with C&C, and sometimes it's easier to demonstrate rather than try and explain--especially in the refinery, which is specifically meant to be an area for the open and frank exchange of ideas and fresh perspectives. And while I do agree that the poster who asked for permission has good manners and etiquette, I think you're out of line for branding people who have gone out of their way to help D'Buggs better achieve his vision unprofessional. ~Dan

I'm putting this here in response to the above posts in D'Buggs thread "I'll make it easy on ya..." that are point-counterpoint on an issue that may be near and dear to some of us.. On this I tend to line up with Kat, as I don't ever take someones image, work it, then repost it as part of my explanation. It's just the way I do it. I also would not appreciate someone doing this to me without first asking me if it were OK. Just me. But I realize that others don't feel this way and I don't see any rule against doing so.

Maybe in the future when we post an image in here we could also include a line there that says whether or not we are OK with having the critics post corrected images as part of their explanation???

[D'Buggs]

I'm putting this here in response to the above posts in D'Buggs thread "I'll make it easy on ya..." that are point-counterpoint on an issue that may be near and dear to some of us.. On this I tend to line up with Kat, as I don't ever take someones image, work it, then repost it as part of my explanation. It's just the way I do it. I also would not appreciate someone doing this to me without first asking me if it were OK. Just me. But I realize that others don't feel this way and I don't see any rule against doing so.

Maybe in the future when we post an image in here we could also include a line there that says whether or not we are OK with having the critics post corrected images as part of their explanation???

I just logged in after a couple days absence (hideous work schedule) and haven't looked at my Refinery thread, yet... Personally, I wouldn't lift without asking 1st and believe that there is policy written on this. :scratch

[timk519]

As someone who'se taken a fair bit of imagery off the 'post / refinery, done some work on it, and posted it back here as part of my critique - I have done this to help with the critiquing process - it's awful hard to 'talk' about how something could be, it's a lot easier to demonstrate it.

I disagree that doing so is only to show off one's PP skills - I think it gives the OP something to think about, shows them what's possible, and gives them a goal to strive for.

In terms of modifying pics w/out asking: I only take posts from this forum, and I only post the modified images back to this forum with the accompanying critique, which gives the OP a view of what I see in the pic, and some other perspectives that can be brought out of it.

Also, I don't include 'how-to's because that was forbidden under the old rules. (And I think any 'how-to's included in a critique in the new format should be extremely limited.)

[D'Buggs]

I just logged in after a couple days absence (hideous work schedule) and haven't looked at my Refinery thread, yet... Personally, I wouldn't lift without asking 1st and believe that there is policy written on this. :scratch

Too add....

One thing that worries me about lifting/altering/repost, is that the 'new' image may be off in an entirely new/different direction than that the artist concieved and now we got imagery "floating" out there, likely w/ embedding that ties it to the *1st* artist, that he/she doesn't like. In a perfect world of morals and values, it wouldn't be a problem, but, this is the internet. :D

The s i m p l e alteration that happend in my previously mentioned thread, demonstrated only a slight crop. I personaly have no problem with this example because the flow of the thread focused on cropping issues and the "new" pic held its original intergrity. But again, I'm fairly certain that I did read somewhere that "lifting" wasn't permitted without consent, via a link that was auto-emailed to me once my membership was accepted, IIRC.

Perhaps, if altering is deemed as being needed, the OP should get 1st dibs on viewing it in a PM.(???).


FWIW - I'm getting what I wanted in my Refinery Thread, with the exception of brute and direct honesty, in regards to my *made up* grading system. :rofl

[dstainer]

This will be my last post on this topic, as I’m looking to move on and not get into a point counterpoint debate. I think Kat brings up some valid points. It would not hurt to have Digital Grin clarify its position regarding the recommended etiquette for making adjustments to another member’s photo (especially within the refinery forum rules section), including but not limited to asking for permission from the original poster. Personally, I would not make any adjustment in any other forum other than the refinery, but also understand some of the intellectual property/copyright points that have been brought up--and certainly believe this warrants more discussion.

And while this does not seem to be an issue in some of the other professional forums I frequent, I am sensitive to the fact that every community is different. That being said, I just disagreed with Kat’s tone and delivery. And some of her comments were way off the mark, such as her comments that, “the people who adjust others photos are only showing off their PS skills and demonstrating how they can do it better than the person posting.” These type of gross generalizations make me cringe. If you have a point to make, do it constructively and in an unbiased manner--but don’t sling mud in the process. To do otherwise only serves to diminish your point and credibility. That’s all I’m saying.

~Dan

[TonyCooper]

This will be my last post on this topic, as I’m looking to move on and not get into a point counterpoint debate. I think Kat brings up some valid points. It would not hurt to have Digital Grin clarify its position regarding the recommended etiquette for making adjustments to another member’s photo (especially within the refinery forum rules section),

I'm not really comfortable with DG determining the official position on this. Forums work better if they are contributor driven. A moderator is fine to keep the trolls away, but the rules and regulations should be based on the group's interests and not the host's interest. We've seen some changes in "The Refinery", compared to "The Whipping Post", that show that this works.

It's very simple for a poster to add a line to a post that says something to the effect of "Feel free to download and modify my photo and re-post it with your suggested modifications" or "I would prefer you not modify this photo, but please tell me how you think it would work better."

Taciturn typists can add "OK to modify" or "Not OK to modify".

[photostuff]

This will be my last post on this topic, as I’m looking to move on and not get into a point counterpoint debate. I think Kat brings up some valid points. It would not hurt to have Digital Grin clarify its position regarding the recommended etiquette for making adjustments to another member’s photo (especially within the refinery forum rules section),

I'm not really comfortable with DG determining the official position on this. Forums work better if they are contributor driven. A moderator is fine to keep the trolls away, but the rules and regulations should be based on the group's interests and not the host's interest. We've seen some changes in "The Refinery", compared to "The Whipping Post", that show that this works.

It's very simple for a poster to add a line to a post that says something to the effect of "Feel free to download and modify my photo and re-post it with your suggested modifications" or "I would prefer you not modify this photo, but please tell me how you think it would work better."

Taciturn typists can add "OK to modify" or "Not OK to modify".
This summarizes my thoughts exactly. We are all adults here and I think the issue can be simply resolved by doing exactly what Tony Cooper suggests. In addition, if I freely submitted my photo in a forum requesting a critical review of it, I would not be opposed to someone making edits of it for the purpose of advancing the critical review and explaining to me how to improve such photo. I would not consider it to be a violation of my artistic integrity or be offended that he dare make alterations in it. After all, the forum is here for the purpose of assisting fellow photographers to improve our technique. In a photography forum like this there is a certain degree of trust that is necessary. You cannot regulate trust or make rules for it. That is my considered opinion on this weighty matter. :rutt

[timk519]

I do agree that dgrin management needs to voice an official position concerning right click downloading other users work pertaining to copyright issues..They already have - in the Refinery, the standards are up to the community to decide.

I'd be fine with a rule of "if you post am image here, others can do things to it and repost it back to this forum for the purposes of critiquing unless you say otherwise."

[Mr. Quiet]

"if you post am image here, others can do things to it and repost it back to this forum for the purposes of critiquing unless you say otherwise."

Well said, and I for one totally agree. But I think that ,just to be polite and avoid future problems, if someone wants to do something to the picture, just ask first, only to be polite...again. :thumb

[OhEddie]

Might be nice to have a forum just for "Retouching" others photos, with the basic understanding that if you post in the "Hack This" forum that you explicitly give permission, and totally expect others to copy your image and re-post it.

Possibly a sub-forum to the "Technique" forum.

[DavidTO]

Might be nice to have a forum just for "Retouching" others photos, with the basic understanding that if you post in the "Hack This" forum that you explicitly give permission, and totally expect others to copy your image and re-post it.

Possibly a sub-forum to the "Technique" forum.


Isn't that what Finishing School is?

[InsuredDisaster]

Maybe if you don't want your image retouched or improved in anyway by others, you can put a large copy right watermark on your photo so that others can't retouch your photo? Something like this? That way, no one will adjust your photo.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v475/InsuredDisaster/_3030492-Edit.jpg

[photostuff]

Maybe if you don't want your image retouched or improved in anyway by others, you can put a large copy right watermark on your photo so that others can't retouch your photo? Something like this? That way, no one will adjust your photo.


Excellent idea...that way no one can make edits to the photo....especially if the watermark is so large no one can see underneath it.....or want to see :lol3

[HoofClix]

Though I'm sure that crack could be easily cloned shut! Maybe even a theme winner this week either way you look at it..

[InsuredDisaster]

Though I'm sure that crack could be easily cloned shut! Maybe even a theme winner this week either way you look at it..

See I was worried that someone would liquify and make it bigger. Don't want anyone editing this photo and doing anything like that.

[photostuff]

See I was worried that someone would liquify and make it bigger. Don't want anyone editing this photo and doing anything like that.
No way! That photo is a piece of fine art and I would not dare to retouch and risk besmirching your artistic integrity!! :nah

[InsuredDisaster]

All kidding asside, is there a limit about how often one may post in the refinery? I'd hearrd in the passt that once a week was the max allowed guidelines. Now, the refinery seems to be a bit morre mad max world now, but I was currious if there was a limit or guideeline about the max rate of postings?

Should there be?:dunno

[Miguel Delinquento]

Hmmm, I think I've read that somewhere (http://www.digitalgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1177368&postcount=14) before. . .


M


All kidding asside, is there a limit about how often one may post in the refinery? I'd hearrd in the passt that once a week was the max allowed guidelines. Now, the refinery seems to be a bit morre mad max world now, but I was currious if there was a limit or guideeline about the max rate of postings?

Should there be?:dunno

[InsuredDisaster]

Hmmm, I think I've read that somewhere (http://www.digitalgrin.com/showpost.php?p=1177368&postcount=14) before. . .


M


Yeah I missed that. I knew it was in there somewhere. Like picking a needle out of a haystack I guess.:wink

[timk519]

I think people should be held to a 'reasonable' # of posts / week, but they should at least have some sort of merit to them.

There's been at least one poster who'se posted problematic images, knew it, and didn't disclose the difficulties in their initial post. That is an abuse of the co-operative nature of the Refinery, and should result in corrective action of at least a warning.

[photostuff]

I think people should be held to a 'reasonable' # of posts / week, but they should at least have some sort of merit to them.

There's been at least one poster who'se posted problematic images, knew it, and didn't disclose the difficulties in their initial post. That is an abuse of the co-operative nature of the Refinery, and should result in corrective action of at least a warning.

If we go down that road, there is the problem of how to define a 'problematic image', whose definition is it, and what corrective action? It seems obvious it ought to be in the moderator's domain. It seems simple enough in principle....if the image is problematic, remove it with an explanation. That is assuming that the definition of 'problematic' is appropriate to begin with of course, but in the end, that would be up to the moderator since they are the only ones with the ability to remove others posts.

[timk519]

If we go down that road, there is the problem of how to define a 'problematic image', whose definition is it, and what corrective action? My issue isn't about people posting problematic images - all images posted to the Refinery are potentially problematic, but it's posting them knowingly w/out disclosing their known difficulties, and doing it repeatedly.

The mods have said this is a community effort & run forum, which means that we the community have to police ourselves.

That there will be people that'll 'push the boundaries' is a given. If nobody sets clear boundaries with consequences - which hopefully means nothing more than a gentle nudge back into right behavior - then sooner or later the Refinery'll follow the path of any other free-for-all.

[Mr. Quiet]

Please define the word ''refinery'' for me.

[adbsgicom]

I haven't posted anything here, but wanted to ask before I use this. I'm not a great photographer, but hopefully I'm getting better each time I go out. Can I post a picture that I think is my most-annoying in that it just doesn't seem right, but I can't seem to figure out what is wrong? Can I post the picture that I think I got 100% (or at least that I don't know what I could have done better) and ask for folks to point out the 95% of the image that could be improved in one way or another?

[HoofClix]

I haven't posted anything here, but wanted to ask before I use this. I'm not a great photographer, but hopefully I'm getting better each time I go out. Can I post a picture that I think is my most-annoying in that it just doesn't seem right, but I can't seem to figure out what is wrong? Can I post the picture that I think I got 100% (or at least that I don't know what I could have done better) and ask for folks to point out the 95% of the image that could be improved in one way or another?
I think what you're asking for is what this new format here is supposed to provide. Post away! Images of all levels..

[Mr. Quiet]

Point taken my friends, point taken:thumb

[Art Scott]

Please define the word ''refinery'' for me.

an industrial plant for purifying a crude substance

refining - the process of removing impurities (as from oil or metals or sugar etc.)

refining - the process of purification of a substance



Refining (also called affining) is the process of purification of a substance. The term is usually used of a natural resource that is almost in a usable form, but which is more useful in its pure form

[Mr. Quiet]

an industrial plant for purifying a crude substance

refining - the process of removing impurities (as from oil or metals or sugar etc.)

refining - the process of purification of a substance



Refining (also called affining) is the process of purification of a substance. The term is usually used of a natural resource that is almost in a usable form, but which is more useful in its pure form

Thank you Art Scott. I believe that is what I have been using it for, a bit excessively I must admit. That will change, and I am sorry for any inconvenience and annoyance I have caused.

[evan walker]

What I think is needed here, is for the contributor to indicate what level of critique he is looking for. Perhaps there could be a series of boxes to check when posting in the Refinery to so indicate. Is the contributor looking for feedback so that the photo could be sold- the highest level, or to win a prize in a contest, or just good enough to make someone stop for a while and look a it?
For example, ever look through someone's vacation photos, and there are none that grab your attention? Criticism given that will make a few of them attention grabbers would be markedly different than criticism that would help transform one of them into a photo that might be sold.
One size doesn't fit all when criticizing others' photos.

[Smithy]

I, for one, am fascinated by the massiver ratio of views to posts. Seems everyone's reading this, but few will pipe up with an opinion. I wish there were more, as a newer photographer trying to learn, and I hope to feel comfortable offering more of my own critique to others.

[DavidTO]

I, for one, am fascinated by the massiver ratio of views to posts. Seems everyone's reading this, but few will pipe up with an opinion. I wish there were more, as a newer photographer trying to learn, and I hope to feel comfortable offering more of my own critique to others.


Keep in mind that some of those views are bots from Google and Yahoo and also from unregistered viewers. Not everyone that looks at your posts are active in the community.

[Smithy]

Ahh. Didn't realize that.

[DavidTO]

Ahh. Didn't realize that.


I don't want to discount your comment, either. The activity in The Refinery could be much, much better.

[Mr. Quiet]

IT has been a bit lacking, but I still get good critique:D

[veque]

Hello everyone. I'm new to smug mug and postings of any kind. I chose the refinery because I am looking for frank feedback on my photos (once I learn how to post them here) and learning from the critiques of others. Thanks for your patience while I figure this out.

[DavidTO]

Hello everyone. I'm new to smug mug and postings of any kind. I chose the refinery because I am looking for frank feedback on my photos (once I learn how to post them here) and learning from the critiques of others. Thanks for your patience while I figure this out.


I'm counting on you veque to keep this riff-raff in line. :deal

:lol3 Welcome!

[budman101]

To be perfectly honest I miss the WP. C&C here is for want of a better word is...lacking. I can see by the dearth of postings and comments that some users feel the same way. The Refinery should be a place to post your 'best effort' shots, regardless of skill level.

[Mr. Quiet]

To be perfectly honest I miss the WP. C&C here is for want of a better word is...lacking. I can see by the dearth of postings and comments that some users feel the same way. The Refinery should be a place to post your 'best effort' shots, regardless of skill level.

I agree here too. It seems like after I have interacted with other photographers, they are very scared of critique. They don't want people to say anything bad about their images, when all WE are doing is giving advise from our professional viewpoints. People need to learn to take critique better. I will continue to post on the Refinery myself.

I must say though, the last time I posted in the Refinery, I was kind of disappointed with the feedback. There was some critique, but most of it was, "oh, congrats on doing your first payed job." That is all fine an dandy, but I am not looking for congrats. I take time to post there because I want to get batter at what I do.

Ok, I have rambled enough here :clap

I am looking for a WHIPPING in the Refinery!!! :deal:thumb

[timk519]

I suspect part of the issue is that critique'rs need to get something out of the process as well, and if that's not forthcoming, or the material that's been posted is not the poster's best effort, then what's the point in continuing?

[Mr. Quiet]

I suspect part of the issue is that critique'rs need to get something out of the process as well, and if that's not forthcoming, or the material that's been posted is not the poster's best effort, then what's the point in continuing?

The point is to make the image better or understand better what went wrong and what can be fixed and/or avoided.

[timk519]

The point is to make the image better or understand better what went wrong and what can be fixed and/or avoided. Don't think about what you want, think about what's in it for the person who has to put in the time and effort to critique the pictures. There has to be something in it for them - like seeing the shooter get better, or have "interesting" pictures to dissect. If it's mostly the same old same old, or the pictures are of obviously substandard quality, they'll spend their time doing something else and we all lose.