Zero replies? C'mon

[tjk60]

I just went thru and replied to every post that had zero replies in this forum. many had 70-80 views.

C'mon we can do better! People post up here because they are proud of their shot, or want help.

A simple: good effort, or nice light or I think you should frame tighter, or even a thanks for sharing is warranted, don't you think?

C'mon, there were some damn fine shots in some to the ignored threads....

Whaddya think?

[Rocketman766]

Many times I view someone's shot and do not comment because I am so new to photography that I don't feel qualified to make a good suggestion. I frequently read the C&C from other and try to learn something so that someday I will also be good enough to make a reliable contribution.

[tjk60]

Many times I view someone's shot and do not comment because I am so new to photography that I don't feel qualified to make a good suggestion. I frequently read the C&C from other and try to learn something so that someday I will also be good enough to make a reliable contribution.

Yeah, but!

Yeah, but you are qualified to say thanks for posting! or I like the colors! or cute kids/dog/horse/waves/helmet....

[wadesworld]

Agreed. I'll do my part.

[slipkid]

I have viewed some posts with out posting a comment. I agree, more comments would be nice.

[Rocketman766]

you're right. I will make more comments. I have been on that side also where there were no comments.

[squiddy]

I've tried to comment on several people's. Not much time at work.

I had 1 reply to my pictures. It was a big discouraging :(

[tjk60]

I've tried to comment on several people's. Not much time at work.

I had 1 reply to my pictures. It was a big discouraging :(

Squiddy, I'll try and make sure I comment in the future.... thx!:clap

[dixonduke]

Many times I view someone's shot and do not comment because I am so new to photography that I don't feel qualified to make a good suggestion. I frequently read the C&C from other and try to learn something so that someday I will also be good enough to make a reliable contribution.

I am guilty of exactly the same thing, for exactly the same reasons.

I will try and do better going forward.

(I am not brave enough to post any photos yet though)

[Erbeman]

I just went thru and replied to every post that had zero replies in this forum. many had 70-80 views.

C'mon we can do better! People post up here because they are proud of their shot, or want help.

A simple: good effort, or nice light or I think you should frame tighter, or even a thanks for sharing is warranted, don't you think?

C'mon, there were some damn fine shots in some to the ignored threads....

Whaddya think?

Ha, I noticed that yesterday. You were on a crusade. I usually reply when I'm really liking the pics. I don't say anything bad or offer suggestions unless the OP asks for advise or suggestions. I play nice :D

[captain78]

I would rather have a true C & C instead of some BS off the cuff comment like "oooh nice shot".

[tjk60]

I would rather have a true C & C instead of some BS off the cuff comment like "oooh nice shot".

that's you, and that's ok, but there are a lot of people that just want someone to acknowledge they took the time to post!

[zoomer]

Agree, we can do better, I will try to do my part.

[johng]

I would rather have a true C & C instead of some BS off the cuff comment like "oooh nice shot".

I agree completely. IMO, the pat-on-the-back replies are what facebook and myspace are for. The benefit of a PHOTOGRAPHY forum is getting feedback from other photographers.

Every post of photos being labeled as 'nice shot' devaluates good work and doesn't help people learn. When that behavior gets to be the norm, the skill of photographers stagnates. Look, it's not like your friends/family are going to be able to point out where you could improve - so if the people that CAN do it cease to do it - you'll never know when you could be doing something better.

Now, having said that, you don't need to be a top-notch pro to be allowed an opinion. As a photographer and sports enthusiast, most people in the genre have looked at quite a lot of sports photos. So, I think it's perfectly legitimate to have an opinion of what you like / don't like about a given shot. It's certainly helpful to be able to add advice if you know it but just because you can't exactly say how to fix a thing doesn't mean you can't have an opinion that it's something you don't like and could be done better.

some people just develop this negative connotation regarding critique. They HATE getting and suggestion for improvement because it's ego bruising. You have to look at it differently - you should WANT to know how you can improve. Very few people get substantially better simply by trial-and-error with no useful feedback.

Occasionally I'll see a really well done series and that will be the extent of my comment. But I do that person a disservice by using that same generic reply on every post of photos.

Again, it's a shame some people's egos are so fragile they can't handle constructive criticism. IMO, if you can't handle that you shouldn't post photos on a photography forum you should simply post them on social network pages. I got better because some experienced photographers offered honest constructive feedback not because I was told every shot was a good shot. So, if you have an opinion, I encourage you to voice it - both positive and negative. I've gotten a lot of feedback over the years from people that said they learned a lot just by reading feedback on other people's photos.

This was a good sports forum because there were a number of good shooters here and people constantly pushed one anothe to get better in a CONSTRUCTIVE way. Reducing a sports forum to a mutual admiration society benefits no one except those that desparately need attention. Just my opinion. Others may feel differently.

[tjk60]

John, I agree with the vast majority of your post. The only point is that I responded to > 50 zero reply posts yesterday, because no one else did. There are post that have > 100 views with no replies. I think the prospect of getting a 'nice shot' vs no comment will eventually turn away the 'virgins'. Then it'll be the only sportsshooter level posters left saying 'yep, that's a nice shot.'

I don't expect that everyone will comment, I'm just trying to get a few more to do so. After I did that yesterday 10-15 posts came alive with activity, with some interesting questions from new dgrinners.

I've taken on other forums to making comments like "#4 is the best of the bunch,.."

[j-bo]

John, I agree with the vast majority of your post. The only point is that I responded to > 50 zero reply posts yesterday, because no one else did. There are post that have > 100 views with no replies. I think the prospect of getting a 'nice shot' vs no comment will eventually turn away the 'virgins'. Then it'll be the only sportsshooter level posters left saying 'yep, that's a nice shot.'

I don't expect that everyone will comment, I'm just trying to get a few more to do so. After I did that yesterday 10-15 posts came alive with activity, with some interesting questions from new dgrinners.

I've taken on other forums to making comments like "#4 is the best of the bunch,.."

Are people really that sensitive or really find a need for someone to comment on their post? :rolleyes

Maybe people already know that their colors are nice or that it's a nice shot. :thumb

I wondered what was up when all of a sudden there were 2 pages of old posts brought back up.

I'm the opposite of Russ....I'd rather comment and try to help someone (and I do it brutally, even though I try to be constructive) that needs it rather than post a comment on "nice one" to someone that obviously already knows it.

BTW..I appoint you official "nice photo" commentator. :D

[Snowgirl]

As someone who had two threads with 0 comments, I can appreciate the need for response.

I joined this group to learn and when I post shots, I'm looking for suggestions for improvement or growth. If they're good - that's wonderful - but 0 response scares me - makes me think they're so AWFUL that no one wants to say anything.

I'm a big girl and can take it! How else will I get better?

Starting this thread was a great idea. Thanks.

[Erbeman]

As someone who had two threads with 0 comments, I can appreciate the need for response.

I joined this group to learn and when I post shots, I'm looking for suggestions for improvement or growth. If they're good - that's wonderful - but 0 response scares me - makes me think they're so AWFUL that no one wants to say anything.

I'm a big girl and can take it! How else will I get better?

Starting this thread was a great idea. Thanks.

IMO if you want C&C you should ask for it in your post.

[tjk60]

I'm the opposite of Russ....I'd rather comment and try to help someone (and I do it brutally, even though I try to be constructive) that needs it rather than post a comment on "nice one" to someone that obviously already knows it.

BTW..I appoint you official "nice photo" commentator. :D

I try and help others also. Maybe not brutally, but I'll try and help.

I'm not looking to be a 'nice photo' commentator, but trying to start at least a 'thanks for posting' reply.

I'm just saying there were (guestimate now) over 50 posts, with a collective 300+ views, and no comments. that defies the law of averages....

And I agree, if you want criticism, you should ask, not everyone wants criticism, they just want to post what they think is a cool pic. Nothing wrong with a RSVP....

[squiddy]

I tend to shy away from the C&C because i know some people can have their feelings hurt. Plus i'm still learning.

Normally if someone asked for C&C i would give it and say get a thick skin but i haven't been here long and i don't wanna have the title The Big B.

:D

[Erbeman]

If you don't ask for C&C I don't feel like I should say anything negative about a persons photos because nobody has voted me "Best Sports Photog on the forum." So, by just throwing my opinion at someone, I feel like I am showing an ego by thinking I can help everyone, so they need to hear what I have to say. I'm just respectful like that. Not saying my way is the right way. It's just the way I choose to represent myself on a public forum.

[DavidTO]

IMO if you want C&C you should ask for it in your post.


Interesting. I've always figured if you DON'T want C&C you should say so, since (as has been said above) this is a photo forum. If you're not here to get better (and you can only improve so much without honest feedback from others), then why post?

I guess as someone who gets criticized for a living, and on a daily basis, I see the benefit in it. Trust me, learning how to incorporate the insights of others into your own personal vision can do nothing but make you better. Not that you should change your personal vision, or sell it out in any way. But it will make your vision stronger and more powerful. Even if only because the comments give you something to disagree wtih.

[DavidTO]

Interesting. I've always figured if you DON'T want C&C you should say so, since (as has been said above) this is a photo forum. If you're not here to get better (and you can only improve so much without honest feedback from others), then why post?

I guess as someone who gets criticized for a living, and on a daily basis, I see the benefit in it. Trust me, learning how to incorporate the insights of others into your own personal vision can do nothing but make you better. Not that you should change your personal vision, or sell it out in any way. But it will make your vision stronger and more powerful. Even if only because the comments give you something to disagree wtih.


oops. "criticized" should have been "critiqued"!

[thoth]

Interesting. I've always figured if you DON'T want C&C you should say so, since (as has been said above) this is a photo forum. If you're not here to get better (and you can only improve so much without honest feedback from others), then why post?

This seems to be a common debate on all photography forums. Many (most?) forums are frequented primarily for their social offerings and not necessarily for education or technical improvement. DGrin seems to be on the more technical side of the photography forum business, however.

My personal opinion is that the forum rules should clearly state how one is to go about requesting, or declining, C&C. Whether C&C is to be assumed until directed otherwise, or the contrary is true, when the members are left to their own devices their individual decisions will rarely prove harmonious. What you are left with is a bunch of folks who are not sure how and when to comment.

[thoth]

oops. "criticized" should have been "critiqued"!

That could be a very telling mistake... :D

[DavidTO]

That could be a very telling mistake... :D


Exactly.

[DavidTO]

Exactly.


I would highly encourage anyone who struggles with commenting on other's works to take a quick (it's short and easy to grasp) look at The Hamburger Method (http://n8tip.com/the-hamburger-method-of-constructive-criticism-works-for-vegetarians-too). Make sure you continue down past the annoying ads. :D

[beetle8]

I agree completely. IMO, the pat-on-the-back replies are what facebook and myspace are for. The benefit of a PHOTOGRAPHY forum is getting feedback from other photographers.

Every post of photos being labeled as 'nice shot' devaluates good work and doesn't help people learn. When that behavior gets to be the norm, the skill of photographers stagnates. Look, it's not like your friends/family are going to be able to point out where you could improve - so if the people that CAN do it cease to do it - you'll never know when you could be doing something better.

Now, having said that, you don't need to be a top-notch pro to be allowed an opinion. As a photographer and sports enthusiast, most people in the genre have looked at quite a lot of sports photos. So, I think it's perfectly legitimate to have an opinion of what you like / don't like about a given shot. It's certainly helpful to be able to add advice if you know it but just because you can't exactly say how to fix a thing doesn't mean you can't have an opinion that it's something you don't like and could be done better.

some people just develop this negative connotation regarding critique. They HATE getting and suggestion for improvement because it's ego bruising. You have to look at it differently - you should WANT to know how you can improve. Very few people get substantially better simply by trial-and-error with no useful feedback.

Occasionally I'll see a really well done series and that will be the extent of my comment. But I do that person a disservice by using that same generic reply on every post of photos.

Again, it's a shame some people's egos are so fragile they can't handle constructive criticism. IMO, if you can't handle that you shouldn't post photos on a photography forum you should simply post them on social network pages. I got better because some experienced photographers offered honest constructive feedback not because I was told every shot was a good shot. So, if you have an opinion, I encourage you to voice it - both positive and negative. I've gotten a lot of feedback over the years from people that said they learned a lot just by reading feedback on other people's photos.

This was a good sports forum because there were a number of good shooters here and people constantly pushed one anothe to get better in a CONSTRUCTIVE way. Reducing a sports forum to a mutual admiration society benefits no one except those that desparately need attention. Just my opinion. Others may feel differently.
I have not been to this forum in a long time, mainly because of something John says above. This was (past tense) a good sports forum.
Right around the time the big debate about parents with cameras getting advice from pros then giving their photos of the same event away for free happened. It was right around that time that this forum lost activity and interest.
Running around patting everyone on the back and saying good game isn't going improve the forum.
There are certain people that can not take a critique no matter how nicely worded it is. There are also people who can't provide a nicely worded critique.

[slpollett]

The title of this post caught my eye, so I had to venture in & read all the comments...

I usually don't frequent the sports topics because that isn't my interest, but I see this same situation happening in almost every forum section. Most people that post are are lucky to get 1 comment from 100+ people looking. There are a few who will post a picture and get 10 pages of comments, but that is not the norm.

For me, when I do get up the nerve to post a picture, it's usually one that I 'think' I've done OK with. I always say c&c welcome and appreciated, but I rarely get more than 1 'nice pic' type of comment. I've posted several times and got no comments. Like someone else mentioned, that makes me think my shots are so bad nobody wants to bother and it also makes me not want to ever post another shot in any section ever again. Actually now I rarely post pics even though I did post some recently, but it had been a while since the last time.

I love to read the feedback people leave for other photographers because that's how I learn myself. The most helpful feedback is (example) if the lighting is poor, don't say 'your lighting sucks' or 'your lighting needs improvement' but rather say something like 'your lighting could be improved if you tried.....' or 'have you tried using ...... to help with the lighting' or something like that. Your composition could be improved if you do ....... instead. I try very hard to leave some type of comment myself but since I don't have great technical ability yet, my comments are usually limited to generic statements--but at least I make a comment.

Thanks for posting this topic. Hopefully this will encourage people to offer a little more critique.

Sherry

[BroPhoto]

I am new to DGrin, and I'm slowly getting to know some of the Photog's in the different forums. When I post a photo, I always state that C&C always welcomed. If someone can give me a tip or trick to make the photo better at shoot time, in order to save some time on some PP time, you better beleive I'm going to try it out. If it works, I'm going to make a mental note to do that every time I run into that situation. So in a nutshell, I thrive on C&C, good or bad.

Also, I am just starting a home study course through NYIP, and after each unit of study, you take a test and then you have a project to shoot. Each student is assigned an instructor which happens to be a PRO. This instructor tells you the good and bad points of your photos, and then tells you how to make your photos better. On my first written tests (2 of them) I averaged a 90%, and on my photos (3 of them) my weak point was composition on one of them, and the other 2 was use of proper apeture, but was told good job on my first project.

So in closing, when pointing out what they did wrong, also point out what they did right and all will be fine! Now I'm not that good yet to point out mistakes, but I will let someone know when I really love a particular photo and why.

GaryB

[ClaireJ]

Being from the other side of the north Atlantic, I'd welcome an alternative view about my photos. I must admit I don't feel qualified to comment on any north American sports because I have no experience of them but I could I realise comment on at least the composition and exposure.

And I'm getting well used to zero replies - I tend to check the views.

[WolfOnDigital]

Thanks for posting this topic!

Here a few others that get me as well:

If you viewed a posting and saw the image posted, you must have had some reaction to the image? I mean something caught your eye? Colors, Composition, contrast, subject matter. All of us here regardles of if we are pros or amatures shoot photography because something captures our eye or emotionally moves us right? So I agree and find it hard to understand how someone can view a posted image and not leave some kind of response. Even it is..."Thanks for posting, I love sunsets" or "Wow, that really stands out because of..."


And here is one I wonder if any of you are guilty of?
You take the time to write to a photographer here to tell him or her how you enjoyed their images, But you didn't comment on any of their images in their galleries under the images you liked!
I love getting e-mail every now and then from someone who said "saw your smugmug images and they were cool." BUT, when I go check my galleries I do not see one comment from that person! LOL
If you took the time to send a private e-mail to someone, please take the time to leave comments under any images you liked In their galleries. :D

Great topic!
You really do not have to be an expert on photography to make some comments under an image posted or under an image in a smugmug gallery.

It is a shame to see so many thread with views but few if any comments.
I stopped posting images because I was getting only one or two responses.
We all love photography.
If we all take 1 minute or 2 minutes extra each time we visit dgrin to add a few comments, then the activity would shoot up incredibly!

Thanks,

Jeff
www.FromTheMindsEye.info (http://www.FromTheMindsEye.info)

[WolfOnDigital]

I just went thru and replied to every post that had zero replies in this forum. many had 70-80 views.

C'mon we can do better! People post up here because they are proud of their shot, or want help.

A simple: good effort, or nice light or I think you should frame tighter, or even a thanks for sharing is warranted, don't you think?

C'mon, there were some damn fine shots in some to the ignored threads....

Whaddya think?

This should be posted as a sticky in all of the forums.

[johng]

In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:

The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.

[tjk60]

In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:

The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.

fair point...

[Dbl]

In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:

The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.

I believe you summed it up well John. Thats one main reason I don't comment much these days.

[rwells]

In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:

The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.

:agree

[ian408]

In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:

One might argue that not contributing is similar.

Not that I disagree with your reasoning. In fact, I support it. But in the interest of learning, I think comments can be made which steer people in the right direction without necessarily giving away the farm.

[MJRPHOTO]

In the interests of full disclosure I'll tell people why I don't make as many comments as I used to. I used to be very active in commenting on photos in the sports forum. But another poster alluded to an issue which has caused me, and several other experienced shooters to drastically cut back on public critique:

The notion of giving away sports images to other parents, etc. For those of us trying to make money or a living off sports photography, it's a practice we don't particularly like. Now, I do NOT, repeat NOT want to open up that can of worms in this thread. Suffice it to say there are those on both sides of the issue and they're not likely to change their minds. The issue for me is I don't particularly like people using my knowledge and experience to undermine my or others business. Even when it's not the people in the threads, lots of others simply read and pick up knowledge and techniques then turn around and give photos away. I love helping people with the passion for this genre - when it's for personal use or when they're trying to earn some money from it. But it became evident to me a while back just how many people there were that were simply giving away their photos - and were unapologetic about using advice from experienced shooters to undermine the market for those same shooters. Most of my critique now is done via PM and email. Again, I do NOT want to turn this thread into a debate on that subject. But it is information on why myself and some of the other seasoned sports photogs no longer comment as much as we used to.
:agree ALSO!!!

[johng]

...I got one rather amateurish comment from an individual whose own image posts were really poor.

Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography) one should restrict your comments to something upbeat. Forums like this should be for fun.

I do not post to forums for this reason. Most of what you get are comments from people who do not contribute anything useful. Encourage the people here...don't pretend you are a pro if you are not.

I will respectfully disagree. It's an easy thing to ignore comments that are there if you disagree. But I don't think you have to be a pro to have a valuable opinion. For certain there is a higher probability of a full-time pro having a valuable opinion. But by your definition, if someone makes $10 a year they are pro and thus may comment. In the end, critique is just data. You as the recipient have to determine whether it's valuable information or just noise.

Just saw the 'forums like this should be for fun' comment. IMO, forums like this should be just like a camera club. You want other PHOTOGRAPHERS to provide feedback so everyone can improve. But that goes back to a difference of opinion on what genre-specific photography forums are for.

[ian408]

From someone no one here has had the chance to get to know, your post is a hell of an intro. Why not post a link to your web site or maybe your sportshooter gallery?

There are a lot of people here and on other forums who will never shoot professionally (they won't earn 100% of their income from photography--and in all likely hood, not even enough to cover the cost of equipment). They do it because their kids are involved in sports or because they enjoy what they do and many really do want to get better.

As far as comments or critique? That and a comment or critique, whether from a "pro" or someone else, is something someone took the time to give you. I'll say it again. That person took the time to comment on your post--and you dissed it.

Nice drive-by.

I was up until midnight and stumbled into this forum. I was editing around 500 images of a bicycle race I had just shot. Just for grins I posted a grab shot. A rider in the shot had his tongue out...it was cute. If I thought it was marketable I sure would not have posted it for free in a forum. I know I did not leave the image up very long, but of 20 or so views, I got one rather amateurish comment from an individual whose own image posts were really poor.

Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography) one should restrict your comments to something upbeat. Forums like this should be for fun.

I do not post to forums for this reason. Most of what you get are comments from people who do not contribute anything useful. Encourage the people here...don't pretend you are a pro if you are not.

[DavidTO]

I was up until midnight and stumbled into this forum. I was editing around 500 images of a bicycle race I had just shot. Just for grins I posted a grab shot. A rider in the shot had his tongue out...it was cute. If I thought it was marketable I sure would not have posted it for free in a forum. I know I did not leave the image up very long, but of 20 or so views, I got one rather amateurish comment from an individual whose own image posts were really poor.

Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography) one should restrict your comments to something upbeat. Forums like this should be for fun.

I do not post to forums for this reason. Most of what you get are comments from people who do not contribute anything useful. Encourage the people here...don't pretend you are a pro if you are not.


Part of becoming a better photographer is improving your ability to look at images critically, and a crucial element of that is trying out your critical eye in public: having an opinion and getting a reaction to it is a valuable way to learn.

I encourage everyone to critique images. It's a muscle you have to use to improve.

[squiddy]

Part of becoming a better photographer is improving your ability to look at images critically, and a crucial element of that is trying out your critical eye in public: having an opinion and getting a reaction to it is a valuable way to learn.

I encourage everyone to critique images. It's a muscle you have to use to improve.

<3!

I'm new here, i have a pro account but i don't run acount claiming to be pro but that's my GOAL.



Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography)


I've made a whopping $32! so i'm a pro all the sudden?! :barb lolz

[ian408]

Just don't stroke your own ego while "dissing" someone else. I get the impression that what you are reacting to is my comment about being a "pro". This business is hard enough. A kind pat on the back is what most people want.

You are correct...you don't know me and I don't know you...i.e. you don't know if my comments are worthwhile and I don't know if your's are.

BTW: drstress.smugmug.com

No need to stroke anyone's ego. My reaction is to your showing up and saying "I posted a shot, got 20 views and one comment".

As for whether or not my or others comments are valuable, it's up to the individual to decide.

[drstress]

<3!

I'm new here, i have a pro account but i don't run acount claiming to be pro but that's my GOAL.




I've made a whopping $32! so i'm a pro all the sudden?! :barb lolz

Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.

Yes...you are a pro...go for it.

[DavidTO]

Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.

Yes...you are a pro...go for it.


There's one more bit that I have to add on to this conversation, and that's this:

The designation "Pro" is not a reliable measure of talent or ability. Plenty of amateurs are amazing, and plenty of pros suck eggs. :deal

[sweet caroline]

Our clients, and most people who will view our photos, are not pros. So why wouldn't we want critique even from the most casual hobbiest? I often ask my husband for his opinions just to get another perspective, knowing that we have differences in artistic taste.

Caroline

[Erbeman]

There's one more bit that I have to add on to this conversation, and that's this:

The designation "Pro" is not a reliable measure of talent or ability. Plenty of amateurs are amazing, and plenty of pros suck eggs. :deal

X2!!!

When I shot my first pro SX race in Vegas last October, I approached a pro photog for a pretty popular MX magazine. He had a big 300 F/2.8 lens attached to a big fancy Canon camera. I asked him what ISO he was using because it was pretty dark. He looked at me like I just spoke spanish to him and said man I don't know, I just turn it on adjust apperature and shoot. I couldn't believe it. This guy doesn't even know how to shoot in manual mode and he is this bigtime photog for a national MX magazine. I was in shock.

Unfortunately in photography there is no black and white definition of what a Pro/Semi Pro photographer is. So, this discussion could go on and on and never end. My suggestion is you don't get all caught up in giving yourself a title then assuming you are qualified to be whatever title you chose for yourself. I find it humerous to believe that if you make $10 in picture sales that you could consider yourself a pro, but whatever.

It's simple, if you look a a persons post on here and feel compeled to comment on it, then do so. If you don't then do not feel as if you have to make up some polite comment just so people aren't scared to post anymore. This is a public, non charging site without a set of governing rules about when to post comments. That means each individual on here can pretty much act accordingly to how they feel within reason. Until there is some governing body that comes up with a list of rules and everyone is charged a certain monetary fee, which in turn locks them into to abiding by these terms, this issue will never go away. So, just go with it. If you are scared to post your pictures because nobody comments on them, then assume they can be better and work towards that. If your pics are really good, people will comment on them. If this is too hard for you to handle and hurts your feelings, then perhaps you shouldn't be on a photography site

[Cygnus Studios]

Our clients, and most people who will view our photos, are not pros.

I am in the same boat. I have no clients who are pro photographers. The whole point that I joined DGrin was to learn and share. There are some great photographers here and for the most part, are willing to share what they know.
Lord knows that I don't always agree with the logic of some, but their opinion and experience is still a very valuable tool for those who are willing to listen and learn.
Viewing a great photo is nice, but doesn't necessarily teach me how to be a better photographer. Making a living with photography doesn't teach me how to be a better photographer either. I welcome those who see things differently than I do. Whether they are right or wrong still offers me a new point of view.
Way too often the pros focus on details or composition, where the casual photographer can tell you whether they like the shot or not. Most of the pros that I hang out with will readily admit that their worst shot is the one the client chose. Happens to me all the time.
The client usually chooses a photo based on emotion, and that is something that we all can learn.
Photography is far more than the composition or capturing the right light and angles.

While I understand the logic behind not posting because someone, somewhere may learn how to take better photos simply to them give away, I truly don't understand why bother to join a photo forum.
As I said, I thought that a forum is a place to share and learn.

[tjk60]

<3!

I'm new here, i have a pro account but i don't run acount claiming to be pro but that's my GOAL.




I've made a whopping $32! so i'm a pro all the sudden?! :barb lolz

Congrats! :rofl

[j-bo]

Originally Posted by drstress
I was up until midnight and stumbled into this forum. I was editing around 500 images of a bicycle race I had just shot. Just for grins I posted a grab shot. A rider in the shot had his tongue out...it was cute. If I thought it was marketable I sure would not have posted it for free in a forum. I know I did not leave the image up very long, but of 20 or so views, I got one rather amateurish comment from an individual whose own image posts were really poor.

Unless you are a pro (pro meaning you make some of your income from photography) one should restrict your comments to something upbeat. Forums like this should be for fun.

I do not post to forums for this reason. Most of what you get are comments from people who do not contribute anything useful. Encourage the people here...don't pretend you are a pro if you are not.


Thanks for the good chuckle. The person who replied to your post is an outstanding photographer.

I find it odd that you couldn't garner just a bit of knowledge from his response. Then again, after taking a gander at your voluminous work and the quality in your gallery.. well... :rolleyes au revoir!

I suppose I shouldn't say much as I've killed my site altogether and closed up shop. I'm no better than joe the avg. photo taker, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express... once. :thumb


I approached a pro photog for a pretty popular MX magazine.
I'm going to assume that was Kardy. When I was at LL's one year, I had asked him something...as his response is on nearly anything photography related..."read the f... manual" was his response to me. However, I saw him later and asked him something else and told him I'm the one you said that too before, and he chuckled and answered a few questions for me to help me out. Cool guy really. Of course, I'm just assuming here.

On the whole critiquing dealio... I don't think that anyone should feel that they must be "qualified" to give critique. Afterall, it is just ones opinion on what they are seeing. In fact, even if their reply is offering advice and is not necessarily correct, one can also reply to their post to help them in understanding things also.

So.. everyone in my mind is qualified.

[ian408]

Just a reminder to keep the conversation civil please.

[beetle8]

Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.

Yes...you are a pro...go for it.

I've quoted your post so that we have it for reference when you delete it.

I have a hard time believing that your posts here are more than a joke. I saw the image you posted this morning and also saw the very usefull constructive coment left for you. The photographer that was kind enough to give you their time in the form of a comment, is an outstanding photographer, you should be thanking them for their valuable advice.

[squiddy]

Take a dollar of the 32 and frame it. If you ever feel like quitting look at it and remember...someone thinks enough of your work to give you more than just words.

Yes...you are a pro...go for it.

I have to wait til i reach 100, oh man i'm screwed. I do have some some loose change. Hey there's an idea!

I won't be surprised when you come to my gallery when i'm all famous and see my 3 quarters 2 dimes and a nickel glued inside a frame. You can say... "i inspired that".

Everyone needs a beer... let's roll out.

[FL00DY]

I completely understand what some of you have said about egos being damaged with critique, but even when I do ask for C&C I might not get any replies for a week. When people do reply it's only because I bump my post and ask for some again. I'm the same as a few other noobs, I equate 0 reply's and 50 views as my photos not being any good. This makes me think twice bout posting my next lot of photos which means the forum suffers and I never learn anything.

I've been getting favourable feedback on my track day photos from the people I'm shooting, and that has increased my confidence. If I'm going to sell photos then I'd like for the buyers to love my shots and not just buy them cause it's of their car and I'm cheaper then others going round. Coming here and getting told 'nice shot' is no different to what I'm getting from the drivers, so what I really want is comments on what I did wrong, why a shot came out that way, how I could fix it in PP or how to avoid it next time. Obviously everyone is busy with their own lives however all the pro's here were noobs once as well, so how did they get good? I can't imagine being a photographer starting out without the internet or forums ;)

[johng]

As my mentors in business community have always told me - "you are responsible for your own career". So here is my advice to those of you not getting responses as you would like. Do some research on the forum - find a photographer that shoots what you just shot and whose skill you admire. Send them a PM asking them for feedback. Repeat for other photogs. If there isn't an exact match on type of sport then simply send a couple messages to sports photogs whose work you admire even if it isn't in the same sport. If you really want the feedback, then be proactive about getting it. It's rare you would get turned away or ignored if you PM a person who is active on the forums. Even those of us who don't like to post public advice anymore are still willing to help people outside of public posts (in my case its if you can tell me you're shooting only for personal or profit and you're not giving away photos "until you get better"). Others have no such restrictions on their advice. But, people that take initiative are people to me that demonstrate they take this seriously. If they've taken the time to message me I try to respond right away.

So, if you're serious about your hobby then be proactive and go after feedback from the people you would most welcome a critique.

[FL00DY]

It's simple, if you look a a persons post on here and feel compeled to comment on it, then do so. If you don't then do not feel as if you have to make up some polite comment just so people aren't scared to post anymore. This is a public, non charging site without a set of governing rules about when to post comments. That means each individual on here can pretty much act accordingly to how they feel within reason. Until there is some governing body that comes up with a list of rules and everyone is charged a certain monetary fee, which in turn locks them into to abiding by these terms, this issue will never go away. So, just go with it. If you are scared to post your pictures because nobody comments on them, then assume they can be better and work towards that. If your pics are really good, people will comment on them. If this is too hard for you to handle and hurts your feelings, then perhaps you shouldn't be on a photography site

The problem with this comment is that those who don't get comments and so don't post because as you say 'can be better' how are they to know HOW they can be better? There are so many aspects of a photo, how to improve a photo, how can not getting any comments tell a person what was wrong with them and where to improve? By your logic, those who are rubbish at photography should give up when they don't get any C&C.

A big worry I had was when deciding to buy my D90, would I enjoy it? Would I be any good? I had never spent so much money on something I didn't know a lot about, I've spent money on computers, cars, sporting equipment, hi-fi. I thought, am I going to just end up selling it if I'm no good at it? So yes I agree that no one is forced to give C&C, but photography isn't a cheap hobby. Am I enjoying it? For the most part, yes I am.

[beetle8]

^ Hi-Fi? I don't think I've heard that term in about twenty years. :)

If you find yourself wanting to sell that D90 drop me a line, it is an excelent camera.

[FL00DY]

^ Hi-Fi? I don't think I've heard that term in about twenty years. :)

If you find yourself wanting to sell that D90 drop me a line, it is an excelent camera.

lol well the term hi-fi is still used here in Australia. And nope, I do love my D90 :D

[ian408]

The problem with this comment is that those who don't get comments and so don't post because as you say 'can be better' how are they to know HOW they can be better? There are so many aspects of a photo, how to improve a photo, how can not getting any comments tell a person what was wrong with them and where to improve? By your logic, those who are rubbish at photography should give up when they don't get any C&C.

I've said it a couple of times already. But to get, you gotta give. Learn a little about writing critique by reading this (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=13427).

Suppose you wanted to skip the reading? Then simply remember to say what you like about the photo, what's not so good and what can be done to improve. "Nice shot" while nice to hear is not very useful if the OP asks for critique. And above all, when you write critique, remember that it's about the photo.

I really do think DavidTO is correct when he says writing critique is something you have to learn to do. Not everyone is good at it and different people have different opinions. When you're reading critique you've been given, keep this in mind.

I would hope more people will participate in the critique process.

[Erbeman]

The problem with this comment is that those who don't get comments and so don't post because as you say 'can be better' how are they to know HOW they can be better? There are so many aspects of a photo, how to improve a photo, how can not getting any comments tell a person what was wrong with them and where to improve? By your logic, those who are rubbish at photography should give up when they don't get any C&C.

A big worry I had was when deciding to buy my D90, would I enjoy it? Would I be any good? I had never spent so much money on something I didn't know a lot about, I've spent money on computers, cars, sporting equipment, hi-fi. I thought, am I going to just end up selling it if I'm no good at it? So yes I agree that no one is forced to give C&C, but photography isn't a cheap hobby. Am I enjoying it? For the most part, yes I am.

I would say do research, use the search button and practice, practice, practice.

[beetle8]

and practice,

if there is one thing that I would attribute improvement to the most, it's taking pictures, and then taking more pictures.

[David Evertsen]

This is a really soul searching type of thread on this forum. I completely understand JohnG, Rwells and the true pro's POV. I have shot a ton of Dance and HS sports in a very small area of Orlando. I after getting "known" get the same questions about how to do this and that asked for pointers and other sorts of things. I have sold many photos privately and from smug to parents and even been published in a local paper, magazine and even the local HS Yearbook and Paper. I believe that many folks are looking for true C&C and like our own kids their are really nice ways to say this needs some more work. I have endured that for sure and that is why I post here.

Even I have stopped posting after my last night LAX post with barely anything against it. I worked on my cropping post processing and got nothing. I shoot LAX in poor lighting on brown fields and hope for the best. The parents and students I shoot for love my photos but being told your are the good all the time is not what I want. I want to know how I am progressing in what I really like to do.

When I am at a HS sports event, I make sure to let the "Pro's" know that if I am in their way to let me know I will move. If they are looking for a roster I will tell them who has it and not bother them. I always make sure not to bother folks working to make a living. Mine is a hobby but I am still providing a service that noone else is providing for the parents at my local HS. During and after many games I talk to the pro's and laugh about jersey choices, lights and grass in the local area. I actually provide the other shooters some insight and vice versa.

If you still don't think I understand the pain of a Pro?? I have since I was 13 years old worked with computers. That is all I have done from all the progressions TRS-80... PC and windows variations. I am 44 years old so you can do the math. I have folks/friends/relatives that will call me at the drop of a hat knowing what I do about the PC not working/internet not working and not understand why it costs so much or what the big deal is to fix said problem. I don't get a call to go out to dinner/ hang by the pool or goto the beach but I am the GOTO guy to fix their PC. eg... This past weekend I had a friend call me because all of their pictures in a gallery on facebook aren't showing up. Seriously they called and asked how to recover them. They picked up the phone instantly and asked me what was up. I told her look on the top of the page FACEBOOK there was a message. You know what it said... Facebook is fixing issues with its photo database and it is going fine. Your photos are not lost and are not going anywhere. Just let us fix it. My boss at work even tells me to just fix it without understanding the true value of my knowledge..

Everyone wants a quick answer, one button fix and instant gratitication. I have always thought the the forums on Dgrin have provided the cure for that. The tell you what you are doing wrong and how to improve I am proof of that.

Please keep contributing, be honest and if there is something missing in a shot let us know. Zero replies in this community is hard to take..

[silversx80]

Did someone say Zero replies?

Here's my Zero reply:

http://silversx80.smugmug.com/photos/559039652_vkVao-L.jpg




OK, sorry. That was in poor taste, but all I could think of was a Mitsubishi Zero.

[tjk60]

Did someone say Zero replies?

Here's my Zero reply:

http://silversx80.smugmug.com/photos/559039652_vkVao-L.jpg




OK, sorry. That was in poor taste, but all I could think of was a Mitsubishi Zero.

Hey slow the shutter speed to get some prop blur! :rofl:rofl

LOL!

[silversx80]

Hey slow the shutter speed to get some prop blur! :rofl:rofl

LOL!

... but then it would look like the plane was actually running :argue


Maybe next time I get to see a Zero that close :thumb