Portrait of My Brother

[michael972]

This was shot with a digital rebel RAW format. As is typical for the digtal rebel and flash (Sigma 500DG super), the shot was underexposed out of the camera (even with 2/3 + flash exp comp) Of course I was shooting vertically and the flash gun was off to the side which may account for that. Anyway, I showed this image on other forums and got harsh reviews. I don't mind harsh reviews but thought I would test the waters here. The only adjustments I made were converting the RAW in photoshop CS with white balance and +0.5 exposure compensation.

http://michael972.smugmug.com/photos/4258620-O.jpg

[wxwax]

Hi Michael. :wave Are you looking for some feedback?

[michael972]

Yes, please./

Hi Michael. :wave Are you looking for some feedback?

[wxwax]

Cool. here's my take on why they gave you a tough time on other sites. (Take this for what it's worth, I'm a total amateur. :evil) It's a nice, tight head shot. And it looks like you solved the flash problem.

Looks a wee bit blue - he'd look good with warmer skin tones. He's also pale, against a white background, so the overall image is somewhat washed out and blue. Might be a wee bit soft, unless you did that on purpose. One other thing is his pose - perhaps firing off a few more shots would help find an expression that says something about his personality? Again, just my opinion, but warmer flesh tones and a more revealing expression would transform the shot. I'm always amazed at how quickly people's faces change - I'll shoot a burst at 3 frames per second, and each seems to have a slightly different expression.

Again, just my thoughts. Lynnma here is experimenting with her dRebel, shooting portraits for a calendar. She's a first timer, and is learning as she goes - and is doing a phenomenal job of sorting her way through the challenges.

Here's one thread. (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=1077&highlight=nudes)

[michael972]

Ah, thank you...

Your comments actually Echo what I was told in another forum--about the blueness...About the sharpness, I don't know. I thought it looked pretty sharp to my untrained eye...I did know do any sharpening adjustment on this photo. I was using f/5.6 at a range of about 2 feet from the subject so it should be sharp at that fstop and range. Tell me if you will, what you think of these. The first is a slightly sharpened copy of the previous image that I tried to get some of the "blue" out of. The second is a more expressive photograph but was shot with JPG format so it came out of the camera as a sicklly orange color I fixed it as best I could...Thanks....

http://michael972.smugmug.com/photos/4275352-O.jpg



....
http://michael972.smugmug.com/photos/4258618-O.jpg


Cool. here's my take on why they gave you a tough time on other sites. (Take this for what it's worth, I'm a total amateur. :evil) It's a nice, tight head shot. And it looks like you solved the flash problem.

Looks a wee bit blue - he'd look good with warmer skin tones. He's also pale, against a white background, so the overall image is somewhat washed out and blue. Might be a wee bit soft, unless you did that on purpose. One other thing is his pose - perhaps firing off a few more shots would help find an expression that says something about his personality? Again, just my opinion, but warmer flesh tones and a more revealing expression would transform the shot. I'm always amazed at how quickly people's faces change - I'll shoot a burst at 3 frames per second, and each seems to have a slightly different expression.

Again, just my thoughts. Lynnma here is experimenting with her dRebel, shooting portraits for a calendar. She's a first timer, and is learning as she goes - and is doing a phenomenal job of sorting her way through the challenges.

Here's one thread. (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=1077&highlight=nudes)

[wxwax]

The sharpening really helped the first photo. You can really tell the difference. And you did a nice job restoring natural looking skin tones as well. Nice work. :thumb

Shame about the orange in the second photo... lots of yellow to get out of it. Have you tried shooting in RAW and then adjusting the white balance in your computer?

[michael972]

Normally I do shot in raw. I try to stay away from JPG as much as possible unless I'm preseed for storage space. On that photo, I accidentally hit a key on the camera that switched it from RAW to JPG. I didn't realize it until after I moved the pictures from the camera to the computer. As far as I know, there is no way to adjust the white balance on a picture shot in JPG. I know I can adjust the levels, but it doesn't seem to work the same. The other photograph (the initial one with the blue hue and the 2nd verstion with the sharpening and blue hue removed) was shot in RAW.





The sharpening really helped the first photo. You can really tell the difference. And you did a nice job restoring natural looking skin tones as well. Nice work. :thumb

Shame about the orange in the second photo... lots of yellow to get out of it. Have you tried shooting in RAW and then adjusting the white balance in your computer?

[wxwax]

Itook the liberty of playing with it. Not sure the background color worked, but just by changing the Levels and Contrast I was able to make his skin tone a little more natural.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/4282429-L.jpg

[michael972]

Wow. That is great. How did you manage to change the background color without dramatically changing the skin tones?



Itook the liberty of playing with it. Not sure the background color worked, but just by changing the Levels and Contrast I was able to make his skin tone a little more natural.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/4282429-L.jpg

[michael972]

And yes, the skin tones look even more improved in your rendition. I am not very astute with photoshop yet and find myself relying on the auto levels, auto contrast, auto colors commands--which sometimes seem to make things work. You did a fine job here.

Itook the liberty of playing with it. Not sure the background color worked, but just by changing the Levels and Contrast I was able to make his skin tone a little more natural.

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/4282429-L.jpg

[wxwax]

Wow. That is great. How did you manage to change the background color without dramatically changing the skin tones?

Thanks. Here's what I did. I'm sure experts like Andy, Cletus or Shay know ways to do it more quickly.

I made a new blank layer (Layer/New/Layer/) or Shift-Control-N on a Windows machine.

I messed around finding a color I thought might work with the green shirt and his skin (not very good at this yet.) I used the paint bucket to pour the paint onto the blank, new layer. On the layers palette I changed the opacity to something like 20%, so the color wasn't overwhelming and reflected the slight shadow on the right side.

Then I used a Layer Mask to get rid of the orange from his body and shirt. Here's the principle, as I understand it. In your Layers palette you have two layers.

1 = Background Layer (it's at the bottom.)

2 = Layer 1 (the new layer you created and filled with paint.) The new layer is above the background layer.

Using a Layer Mask, I can erase anything I want from the upper layer, at whatever opacity I want. When you erase the top layer, what's left is the bottom layer coming through.

Here's what I do next. I click on Layer/Add Layer Mask/Reveal All. Then, on the toolbar, make sure the two little color boxes are black and white (click on the mini black and white boxes below the big ones.) Make sure the top box is black, not white.

Still on the toolbar, pick the paintbrush. Set it to whatever size you need (I pick a big one first, 100 opacity, soft edge, and erase all the big stuff first. I overdo it, because I can go back later and fix the bits I should not have erased.)

Then swipe your brush over the image. Assuming you have the Layer 1 selected in your Layers palette, you'll be erasing the top layer.

Magic!

And here's the beauty: it's not permanent. Go to your tool bar. Click once on the arrows to the upper right of the black and white boxes. Now you've put the white box on top. With your paintbrush, wipe over what you just erased. Presto, it reappears!

The only tricky part is the boundary between your Background Layer and your Layer 1. In this case, of course, the boundary is the edge of your bro's face and shirt. The only way to get it right that I know of, is to zoom in as close as you can, until you see the individual pixels. On your paintbrush, pick a really, really small brush. Then work the boundary line. If you're like me, you'll be switching from erasing, to adding back, over and over again. It takes me a while. I think it takes Andy just a few minutes.

You might want to play at this. Just bring up an image, hit Control-J to make a second layer that's a copy of the first. Then change the levels on the second layer so it looks different. Then play with layer mask to get a feel for it.

And you should check out Andy and Cletus' threads in the Photoshop Shenanigans forum. Those guys are amazing, and are incredibly generous in sharing how they do it.

[wxwax]

And yes, the skin tones look even more improved in your rendition. I am not very astute with photoshop yet and find myself relying on the auto levels, auto contrast, auto colors commands--which sometimes seem to make things work. You did a fine job here.

Hey Michael, you might want to just play with the sliders on Levels, and Brightness/Contrast. Simply messing with Levels and Contrast can make a huge difference. And it's free to play with them!

[michael972]

Thanks, I'll be sure to try these things out!


Hey Michael, you might want to just play with the sliders on Levels, and Brightness/Contrast. Simply messing with Levels and Contrast can make a huge difference. And it's free to play with them!

[ian408]

Blue seems to work better as a background for head shots.
It's more complimentary than most for most skin types.
Something in a medium blue.

[lynnma]

Hi Mike,

could'nt resist, hope you don't mind, heres a quick black and white (poorly done quick waiting coffee to brew)

Lynnma :D

[michael972]

Can you instruct me on how you accomplished this? It is amazing!




Hi Mike,

could'nt resist, hope you don't mind, heres a quick black and white (poorly done quick waiting coffee to brew)

Lynnma :D

[lynnma]

Can you instruct me on how you accomplished this? It is amazing!Hi Michael, it's not that hard really, If I can do it anyone can:D

First I'm assuming you have photoshop. Now I'm not sure if photoshop 5 or 6 has the same filters as mine which is Photoshop CS. I'll assume it has.

Open you picture. Choose "filters" and then at the top "extract". Your picture will pop up in another window. Using the tool draw around your picture and then fill in your selection with the little watering can which will let you see what you are extracting. Press ok and your extraction will show in your layers palate.

Open a new blank file and using the gradient tool (6th icon down on the tools palette to your left) drag your curser diag accross the page to give a gradient color in the 2 colors of choice. Then I select that whole page and drag that over to my picture of brother. (there are easier ways but I always forget to start with the background, you could do that though) drag pic of brother so it shows on top of background and then using the eraser remove all the rubbish around the edge of image. Flatten all. To make black and white. choose "layer", then new adjustment layer and see "channel mixer". Choose that and when it's finished opening check "monochrome" in the left corner. Use the sliders to adjust to how you want it.

I then use filters, blur, gaussion blur just a bit. Then take your eraser and erase the blur from the eyes, use the sharpen tool to maybe sharpen the eyes a little more. Then I used "filters" render lighting effects and added a little side light.
If this is all mumbo jumbo let me know and I'll send screen shots of the stages.
p.s. If you remember to create your background first and then bring in brother he will automatically pop into the background, I always do everything back to front.


Fun hey?? good luck
Lynn

[wxwax]

Nice job, Ms. May!

[lynnma]

Nice job, Ms. May!
thnks night roamer..

[michael972]

Always fun but the goal always seems insurmountable to a photoshop newbie like myself. My brother loved what you did with the photo, by thew way...I will make a few attempts, if I can't get it, I'll ask for more help...Thanks!





Hi Michael, it's not that hard really, If I can do it anyone can:D

First I'm assuming you have photoshop. Now I'm not sure if photoshop 5 or 6 has the same filters as mine which is Photoshop CS. I'll assume it has.

Open you picture. Choose "filters" and then at the top "extract". Your picture will pop up in another window. Using the tool draw around your picture and then fill in your selection with the little watering can which will let you see what you are extracting. Press ok and your extraction will show in your layers palate.

Open a new blank file and using the gradient tool (6th icon down on the tools palette to your left) drag your curser diag accross the page to give a gradient color in the 2 colors of choice. Then I select that whole page and drag that over to my picture of brother. (there are easier ways but I always forget to start with the background, you could do that though) drag pic of brother so it shows on top of background and then using the eraser remove all the rubbish around the edge of image. Flatten all. To make black and white. choose "layer", then new adjustment layer and see "channel mixer". Choose that and when it's finished opening check "monochrome" in the left corner. Use the sliders to adjust to how you want it.

I then use filters, blur, gaussion blur just a bit. Then take your eraser and erase the blur from the eyes, use the sharpen tool to maybe sharpen the eyes a little more. Then I used "filters" render lighting effects and added a little side light.
If this is all mumbo jumbo let me know and I'll send screen shots of the stages.
p.s. If you remember to create your background first and then bring in brother he will automatically pop into the background, I always do everything back to front.


Fun hey?? good luck
Lynn

[lynnma]

Always fun but the goal always seems insurmountable to a photoshop newbie like myself. My brother loved what you did with the photo, by thew way...I will make a few attempts, if I can't get it, I'll ask for more help...Thanks!No it's not insummountable.. just go step by step and ask ask ask... print out the instructions first.. you can do it no doubt. No question is too stupid.. like "where is the tools palate".. I only found "extract" a couple of weeks ago, did'nt even know it was there til Pathfinder mentioned it.. I was stunned.. I've been struggling with the other select tools and this makes it much easier..

stay in touch
Lynn

[wxwax]

Micheal, a lot of Photoshop is dead easy, if you have pictures showing you each step of the way. It is for me, at least.

I highly, highly recommend you look for any book by Scott Kelby that deals with your version of Photoshop. Simple, clear - and incredibly useful. You'll amaze yourself. :thumb

[michael972]

I will look at that book...Thank you.




Micheal, a lot of Photoshop is dead easy, if you have pictures showing you each step of the way. It is for me, at least.

I highly, highly recommend you look for any book by Scott Kelby that deals with your version of Photoshop. Simple, clear - and incredibly useful. You'll amaze yourself. :thumb

[fish]

Michael, looks like you're already getting a lot of input on post processing, so I will limit my comments to the image itself.

First off, which lens are you using? The DOF seems very shallow...ears are out of focus. I would use a longer lens, get a little further away and see if you can deepen the DOF. This will also flatten out the image a little and make his nose to ear size ratio a little more favorable.

Secondly, I would go for ambient light. Flash is too harsh, especially up close. Go near a window. I don't mind the shadows, and in fact with a mug like that, deep shadows (especially in B&W) might be great. There's a big difference between ambient light shadows and flash shadows. Play around with it a bit.

Lastly (and no offense to your brother), but the expression is kinda "duh". Almost like he's thinking "why is there a banana peel on your head?

K? good. fish out.

[michael972]

Thanks for the advise. The lens was a 50mm. Settings were on manual 1/60 f/5.6 flash set to auto.




Michael, looks like you're already getting a lot of input on post processing, so I will limit my comments to the image itself.

First off, which lens are you using? The DOF seems very shallow...ears are out of focus. I would use a longer lens, get a little further away and see if you can deepen the DOF. This will also flatten out the image a little and make his nose to ear size ratio a little more favorable.

Secondly, I would go for ambient light. Flash is too harsh, especially up close. Go near a window. I don't mind the shadows, and in fact with a mug like that, deep shadows (especially in B&W) might be great. There's a big difference between ambient light shadows and flash shadows. Play around with it a bit.

Lastly (and no offense to your brother), but the expression is kinda "duh". Almost like he's thinking "why is there a banana peel on your head?

K? good. fish out.

[michael972]

I've been trying to duplicate what you did...so far my attempts have not yielded good results...I'll keep at it heh.




No it's not insummountable.. just go step by step and ask ask ask... print out the instructions first.. you can do it no doubt. No question is too stupid.. like "where is the tools palate".. I only found "extract" a couple of weeks ago, did'nt even know it was there til Pathfinder mentioned it.. I was stunned.. I've been struggling with the other select tools and this makes it much easier..

stay in touch
Lynn

[wxwax]

Hey Michael, Photoshop 6 does not have the "Extract" tool. You'll need to use the Magic (Magnetic) Lasso tool.

[wxwax]

Also, here's one of a few books by Kelby that deal with PS 6. Great stuff, really will make your life easy. Nice, simple step-by-step instruction with picutres. Perfect for me. :evil

Here's the link. (http://www.readersread.com/cgi-bin/review.pl?reviewid=70105)

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/073571147X.01._PE_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[michael972]

I am using photoshop CS



Hey Michael, Photoshop 6 does not have the "Extract" tool. You'll need to use the Magic (Magnetic) Lasso tool.

[michael972]

Ok. I almost got it I think. I have been working with the extract and finally got it figured out...I am having trouble with the render light affects though...Are you using the default setting? Where are you positioning the light source? I am either blowing out one side of his face and leaving the other black or blowing out the whole image... I have to master this technique hehe

mike



No it's not insummountable.. just go step by step and ask ask ask... print out the instructions first.. you can do it no doubt. No question is too stupid.. like "where is the tools palate".. I only found "extract" a couple of weeks ago, did'nt even know it was there til Pathfinder mentioned it.. I was stunned.. I've been struggling with the other select tools and this makes it much easier..

stay in touch
Lynn

[wxwax]

I am using photoshop CS

Ah, sorry about that. In which case, I have this book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0735714118/102-8276395-8962569?v=glance) and it's the bees knees.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/0735714118.01._PE32_PI_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg

[lynnma]

Ok. I almost got it I think. I have been working with the extract and finally got it figured out...I am having trouble with the render light affects though...Are you using the default setting? Where are you positioning the light source? I am either blowing out one side of his face and leaving the other black or blowing out the whole image... I have to master this technique hehe

mikeMike, I sent you a private message about ten pages long..:D

[michael972]

Thank you..... :)



Mike, I sent you a private message about ten pages long..:D

[michael972]

After hours of trial and error, I've wound up with this. I still like yours better. Did you ues a solid black background? Yours seems to retain more detail, especailly around the goatee and eyes. I did all the sharpening tricks that you suggested.

http://michael972.smugmug.com/photos/4394920-O.jpg

Mike, I sent you a private message about ten pages long..:D

[wxwax]

That looks pretty good, micheal. :thumb Only problem area is top left quadrant of his head - it doesn't blend smoothly with the background.

[michael972]

Yeah..I see that now...Glad you pointed that out before I sent it for printing...Wonder what I can do to correct that...And by the way I bought the book you reccomended by Kelby...it is a fantastic resource.




That looks pretty good, micheal. :thumb Only problem area is top left quadrant of his head - it doesn't blend smoothly with the background.

[michael972]

My final rendition.




That looks pretty good, micheal. :thumb Only problem area is top left quadrant of his head - it doesn't blend smoothly with the background.http://michael972.smugmug.com/photos/4398518-O.jpg

[wxwax]

Yeah..I see that now...Glad you pointed that out before I sent it for printing...Wonder what I can do to correct that...And by the way I bought the book you reccomended by Kelby...it is a fantastic resource.


Cool! I love easy to use instructions. I'd say I have ADD, but really it's just that I'm intellectually lazy!

The outline of his head is still slightly off. I didn't see Lynn's instructions. Are you layering/masking his head over a background? If so, either the way you extracted his head was a little rough, or the masking is slightly off.

In either case, the best way to make it better is to zoom in until you see the individual pixels, then do your repair work.

Nigritude Ultramarine (http://nigritude-ultramarine.smugmug.com/)

[AltPro]

Michael, Here's my go at removing that orange cast... Still needs a bit more work to give it some depth, but I think it might be headed in the right direction?
ginette

http://ThroughTheLensLtd.smugmug.com/photos/4416402-L.jpg

[AltPro]

And in Black & White?
ginette

http://ThroughTheLensLtd.smugmug.com/photos/4416691-L.jpg

[AltPro]

And in Black & White?
Michael, maybe some of these will help...
Let me know what you think?
ginette


http://ThroughTheLensLtd.smugmug.com/photos/4417295-L.jpg

[michael972]

Wonderful!!! Please explain the technicque!



And in Black & White?
Michael, maybe some of these will help...
Let me know what you think?
ginette


http://throughthelensltd.smugmug.com/photos/4417295-L.jpg

[AltPro]

Wonderful!!! Please explain the technicque!
Michael,
Really the techniques I use have come through education, and trial and error. The one I use to do this for Black & White, is very simple.
First, SAVE the Original as a PSD file. This is very important, as PSD does not compress the image and therefore does not degrade the image when the file is opened and closed, or manipulated. When opening and closing a JPG file, each new change and subsequent close compresses the image further and casues loss of minute detail.

Adjust and balance levels for RBG Mode.

While in the RBG mode, Magnify the Irises of the eyes.
Using the magic wand, set at 15-20 select the iris. (To add to the selection, hold the shift key andclick) For the finer detailwork, I use the lasso selection tool to add (again shift click) or subtract (option click) to my selection.
Once satisfied with the selection, Copy the Iris selection to the Clipboard. And SAVE AGAIN Under another name, ie MichaelsBro-B.psd

Now convert to Grayscale Mode

Convert again to DuoTone, Select TRI-Tone
For this image I used:
Black
PANTONE Hexachrome Black C
Pantone 402C


Duplicate the background Layer, Title as "Work Layer."
Working in this work Layer,
First adjust Levels
Adjust a BIT in the Highlight end of CURVES to deepen the shadow side of the face.
Now adjust Brightness & Contrast, I added +6Contrast
+2 Brightness
Keep finessing the controls, Levels, Curves, B&C until you are satisfied. Use the Original Background to monitor your changes.
Once Happy with the results, SAVE, Keeping Layers.
Then Merge Layers Down, Or Flatten Image.
Now Convert back to RBG
Again Duplicate Background as above
Paste in the Irises.
Working in the Iris Layer
Save Again, New Name ie C
Adjust Color (Control B)
As his eyes looked to be Blue, to me, I over adjusted them to the blue range, don't be afraid to move the slidders around.
Take the copied background layer, put it over the Iris layer, and adjust Opacity, I used 48%
SAVE Again
Merge all layers and Voila. That should be it!

Hope I didn't forget anything.

I'll look it over again tonight when I get home, or if you have a problem with what I said, let me know.

Hope that helps with the B&W
ginette

[michael972]

Thank you.





Michael,
Really the techniques I use have come through education, and trial and error. The one I use to do this for Black & White, is very simple.
First, SAVE the Original as a PSD file. This is very important, as PSD does not compress the image and therefore does not degrade the image when the file is opened and closed, or manipulated. When opening and closing a JPG file, each new change and subsequent close compresses the image further and casues loss of minute detail.

Adjust and balance levels for RBG Mode.

While in the RBG mode, Magnify the Irises of the eyes.
Using the magic wand, set at 15-20 select the iris. (To add to the selection, hold the shift key andclick) For the finer detailwork, I use the lasso selection tool to add (again shift click) or subtract (option click) to my selection.
Once satisfied with the selection, Copy the Iris selection to the Clipboard. And SAVE AGAIN Under another name, ie MichaelsBro-B.psd

Now convert to Grayscale Mode

Convert again to DuoTone, Select TRI-Tone
For this image I used:


Black

PANTONE Hexachrome Black C
Pantone 402C





Duplicate the background Layer, Title as "Work Layer."
Working in this work Layer,
First adjust Levels
Adjust a BIT in the Highlight end of CURVES to deepen the shadow side of the face.
Now adjust Brightness & Contrast, I added +6Contrast
+2 Brightness
Keep finessing the controls, Levels, Curves, B&C until you are satisfied. Use the Original Background to monitor your changes.
Once Happy with the results, SAVE, Keeping Layers.
Then Merge Layers Down, Or Flatten Image.
Now Convert back to RBG
Again Duplicate Background as above
Paste in the Irises.
Working in the Iris Layer
Save Again, New Name ie C
Adjust Color (Control B)
As his eyes looked to be Blue, to me, I over adjusted them to the blue range, don't be afraid to move the slidders around.
Take the copied background layer, put it over the Iris layer, and adjust Opacity, I used 48%
SAVE Again
Merge all layers and Voila. That should be it!

Hope I didn't forget anything.

I'll look it over again tonight when I get home, or if you have a problem with what I said, let me know.

Hope that helps with the B&W
ginette

[lynnma]

My final rendition.




http://michael972.smugmug.com/photos/4398518-O.jpg
Well done Michael,
good job. The back ground I used was done with a "gradient" tool thayby having it darker one side. The only thing I can see you could improve on would be to take a very soft eraser and remove some of the edging on his head. Or, make the back ground lighter in that area or both. the gradient tool is underneath your little paint bucket on your tool bar to the left. It acts like a paint bucket but grades two colors light to dark, or how ever you want it.
Try it and see if you like it.
Well done.
Lynn