Help SmugMug solve a gallery password conundrum

[Baldy]

jfriend and others have been asking for breadcrumbs and the gallery title on the gallery password screen, and here's how it looks with the default theme now on our test servers:


http://cmac.smugmug.com/photos/493077248_KwKxD-L-1.jpg


Better?

Problem is, while we were in the code, we tried to solve the I can't remember the password problem, so the new form didn't ship.

The current question is: "Stuck? Email a support hero" or something like that. But when they email us we have to email you.

So what we started to implement was the link you see above, "Contact this photographer" for help. Then we would bring up a form like:

http://cmac.smugmug.com/photos/493079345_gzRHP-L.jpg

It could use your bio photo, if you have one, and email your contact email, if you've entered one (you set it on the pros tab of your control panel).

Any objections so far? One downside is pros aren't expecting their bio photos to be used that way and some may have olde outdated ones that they hide with css.

My bet is John, who is thorough and thinks through all the details, will say, "contact the pros and get their buy-in and give them a way to opt-out of showing the bio photo". That will be a project and a feature that will turn this into a longer-term effort, so I think we'd opt to ship the breadcrumbs and gallery title and drop the contact a pro idea for now.


There are two other options that I can think of:

1. Don't offer a contact link. It's almost never offered on the web. My personal opinion is sales will drop for some pros because their customers forget the passwords.

2. Leave the link but send the email to the primary contact of all customers, including standard, power, and pro, and offer a new gallery option (ugh) to opt out.

Your thoughts.

Thanks,
Baldy

[scwalter]

I think that looks great, but the first thing that actually pops into my head is "hey, can I use that form on my contact page too?" I hope the answer is yes.

-Scott

[jfriend]

I like the breadcrumb solution so now we can tell which gallery we're being asked for a password on. That will help those of us who have a lot of password protected galleries with different passwords (nearly every one of my sports teams).

My personal opinion on the password thing is that you are over-engineering a solution and I'd rather you put that effort into other features/bugs that seem a lot more important. Just let us put our own customization there. If we think our viewers/customers need contact information we'll put it in there (in a JS way or image way that spam bots don't process).

In many other cases, any legitimate viewer knows how to contact the site owner already so no contact information is needed. Or, the site already has contact information on it that we could just link to via customization.

FYI, I really don't like the way it is now where my customers/viewers are led to contact you when they have a password problem. That really rubs me the wrong way.

[Baldy]

In many other cases, any legitimate viewer knows how to contact the site owner already so no contact information is needed.Just fyi, our help desk is flooded with people who forgot the password and don't know how to contact the owner. When we take the contact SmugMug link off, they find a way by going to the footer or help page or looking up a contact for us on the web. The difference when we take the link down and make it harder for them is more often they're angry when they do find our contact the hard way.

Our support heroes list this issue as the #1 problem on the help desk.

[Andy]

FYI, I really don't like the way it is now where my customers/viewers are led to contact you when they have a password problem. That really rubs me the wrong way.Right... so are we :D Heros get gobs of these emails every single day, now, today. We want a simple solution to solve this problem, so that viewers get the info they need straight away.

[GSPeP]

Looks like a great idea.

Would certainly make free some time of the helpdesk people so they can spend it on other problems/questions.

Especially for the Pros, potential customers would have it easier to make contact. As a buyer, I search information on the internet a few times a day. I hate it when I have to do more than three clicks, or if it takes me more than one minute, to get to the contact information of a company.

[kdgrapes]

Just fyi, our help desk is flooded with people who forgot the password and don't know how to contact the owner. When we take the contact SmugMug link off, they find a way by going to the footer or help page or looking up a contact for us on the web. The difference when we take the link down and make it harder for them is more often they're angry when they do find our contact the hard way.

Our support heroes list this issue as the #1 problem on the help desk.

My two cents...

The breadcrumb is great. That will definitely help.
Opting out of the picture is a good idea, or maybe just to show the logo/name of the photographer?In my other life, our help desk is under me. It is amazing how many requests we get for password issues each month. We even have a self-service tool for people to reset the password themself but we still get a lot more calls than you would think asking what to do, where to go, etc. with a forgotten password. We even have the DIY link next to the one they click to ask for help!

[RogersDA]

The "save password" option:
The text reads "I'm using a public computer, don't save this password". I would rather see something like "Don't Save This Password On This Computer; e.g., using public computer.

This way the option is immediate - a user read "Don't save the password" rather than "I'm on a public computer". Maybe the user is on a private computer and still doesn't want to save the password.

Personally, I would like to have the current save option default to on (checked) and have the user turn it off. This way the password is not saved by accident.

Even better: have the user choose one of two radio buttons (Don't Save Password...) and (Save Password...).

On the email form:
Can you hard-code the gallery name/password request text so that it can't be changed by the user?

Can you add first name/last name fields? A photographer may not know who, in real life, is associated with an odd-ball email address.

Can you implement a captcha box to foil bots from spewing endless password requests? If no captcha - can you implement a hidden field (hidden in CSS, for example)? Only bots would see this hidden field, and, if filed out, the request is ignored.

[mbellot]

Can you add first name/last name fields? A photographer may not know who, in real life, is associated with an odd-ball email address.

Can you implement a captcha box to foil bots from spewing endless password requests? If no captcha - can you implement a hidden field (hidden in CSS, for example)? Only bots would see this hidden field, and, if filed out, the request is ignored.

+1 on both these ideas.

What would happen with the photo if a bio photo has never been set?

Rather than an opt-out, how about the ability to un-set (clear) your bio photo choice? That way it wouldn't need to be hidden with CSS either.

Otherwise I think it all looks great. :thumb

[Cygnus Studios]

I love the idea of having a direct email link to us. Even though most of us have some forum of contact page, or other contact info listed, I know that some people struggle with it.
I personally do not use a Bio pic, so having the option of turning it off, or using something else would be great.

[Baldy]

The "save password" option:
The text reads "I'm using a public computer, don't save this password". I would rather see something like "Don't Save This Password On This Computer; e.g., using public computer.Great idea.

I think to make sure this ships on Thursday, we'll simplify to:

1. If the pro has a contact email entered in their control panel, we'll put the contact the photographer link up, otherwise we'll supply no link.

2. If they have a bio photo, we'll display it. This may tweak a few people, I know, and I'm sorry about that, but I think >90% will really like it and adjust their bio photos so they show well. Customers will love it.

Then we can gather feedback and consider the other options listed here.

Thanks,
Baldy

[Baldy]

I should add: only 20% of pros now have a contact email entered and we'd love to see that go closer to 100%. There hasn't been incentive to enter one before now and we haven't gotten the word out, so we'll try with this release.

[jfriend]

Great idea.

I think to make sure this ships on Thursday, we'll simplify to:

1. If the pro has a contact email entered in their control panel, we'll put the contact the photographer link up, otherwise we'll supply no link.

2. If they have a bio photo, we'll display it. This may tweak a few people, I know, and I'm sorry about that, but I think >90% will really like it and adjust their bio photos so they show well. Customers will love it.

Then we can gather feedback and consider the other options listed here.

Thanks,
Baldy Sounds like a good shot for the first release.

I agree that I may not be able to respond to a password request if someone only supplies an email address and I don't recognize that email address. It would be helpful to request their first and last name too (in the form) so I can look them up (often in a school directory or team directory) to see if this is indeed someone I should give the password to.

[RogersDA]

I should add: only 20% of pros now have a contact email entered... :huh

[jfriend]

Sounds like a good shot for the first release.

I agree that I may not be able to respond to a password request if someone only supplies an email address and I don't recognize that email address. It would be helpful to request their first and last name too (in the form) so I can look them up (often in a school directory or team directory) to see if this is indeed someone I should give the password to.

One other thing that I've mentioned to Andy before. Can you please make sure that all the content in the password dialog is styled with CSS identifiers so we can customize the look if we want?

This may be outside the scope of what you're changing in this release, but it has long been a problem that neither the <body> tag or <bodyWrapper> tags identify the page as a password page. That means you can't use CSS to customize your header/footer on a password page. For example, many people would like to hide their navbar on a password page, but today that is only possible with custom javascript, not with CSS because there is no CSS identifier that tells you it's a password page in the parent tree of the custom header/footer.

[Allen]

...

http://cmac.smugmug.com/photos/493077248_KwKxD-L-1.jpg


Better?
...
Did we forget the "password hint" line? :D

I like the two submit button idea. "Submit Remember PW" & "Submit Public"

[Baldy]

One other thing that I've mentioned to Andy before. Can you please make sure that all the content in the password dialog is styled with CSS identifiers so we can customize the look if we want?

This may be outside the scope of what you're changing in this release, but it has long been a problem that neither the <body> tag or <bodyWrapper> tags identify the page as a password page. That means you can't use CSS to customize your header/footer on a password page. For example, many people would like to hide their navbar on a password page, but today that is only possible with custom javascript, not with CSS because there is no CSS identifier that tells you it's a password page in the parent tree of the custom header/footer.Hmmm, this is good feedback. We're using the same css identifiers as on your home page like boxtop and boxbottom, but I'm looking into identifying it as a password page.

I can also see where not getting the name for a password request could be a problem.

[aktse]

I can also see where not getting the name for a password request could be a problem.Just curious... How difficult is it to include the gallery name as well?

I can imagine situations where the gallery owner will have no clue what password to give because he or she can not determine which gallery out based upon name/e-mail combo.

For example, imagine a sports shooter who photographs many kids teams on a regular basis and assigns the coaches name as the password. Over the next few days, the gallery link is passed across the country to friends and family by people via copy/paste of the url of the gallery rather than forwarding the e-mail itself which contained the url + password.

The user then clikcs the “contact photographer” button and the photographer gets the “Ack! I need a password” e-mail. Even with the name/e-mail, the photographer won’t know which gallery, etc.

On the other hand, does the photographer want to give out a password to a stranger if he or she can not figure out the requester’s relationship to the sports team?

Thinking about it, this point (inclusion of the password protected gallery) might be moot. If the photographer doesn’t recognize the name/e-mail, a follow up e-mail is probably needed to inquire about validity of the relationship to the sports team and the request for the specific gallery can be asked at the same time.

And the follow up e-mail would be the responsible of the photographer. Smugmug is removed from the loop and the hard working smugmug heros would be freed to help someone else…

[Baldy]

Just curious... How difficult is it to include the gallery name as well?The gallery name is in there. See the screen shot. Am I misunderstanding your question?

[aktse]

The gallery name is in there. See the screen shot. Am I misunderstanding your question?Nope. I just need my eyes checked. . Maybe I should try and respond to dgrin and work at the same time :wink

[jfriend]

The gallery name is in there. See the screen shot. Am I misunderstanding your question? According the the screenshot above, you are only sending us a gallery name. That is not sufficient for me to know what they are trying to access as I have 30 galleries named "Highlights" all in different categories/sub-categories. Remember, this is part of the problem I was trying to solve by getting breadcrumbs added to the password screen. Ideally, we'd get both the category hierarchy and a link to the gallery in the email.

The way you have it indicated in the screenshot, it also looks like the viewer can remove that information from the email which I'm not sure about.

[darryl]

The "save password" option:
The text reads "I'm using a public computer, don't save this password". I would rather see something like "Don't Save This Password On This Computer; e.g., using public computer.


I agree that the text is confusing but two choices or two Submit buttons is even worse.

You should use the same convention that seemingly every other website in the world uses, including Dgrin, Google, Yahoo and everybody's favorite, Facebook:

[ ] Remember me (on this computer)

(Actually, Yahoo uses "Keep me signed in".)

On an unrelated note -- will this change also be implemented for site-wide passwords? That'd be nice.

[SPK64]

That is not sufficient for me to know what they are trying to access as I have 30 galleries named "Highlights" all in different categories/sub-categories. Remember, this is part of the problem I was trying to solve by getting breadcrumbs added to the password screen. Ideally, we'd get both the category hierarchy and a link to the gallery in the email.

First Off I am glad to see this change. I had just recently did some customizing to aid people as to why galleries required a password and to contact me.
When the change went in recently requesting an email be sent to Smugmug. I am quite sure it confused any user hitting a pw gallery.
http://go.skactionpix.com/gallery/1630436_393Uw#79526600_3FNwJ

Also it would be nice to possibly include a link to the gallery or include the sub-category. Although I have recently changed all my galleries to be unique in the naming. An yes, this needs to be something the sender cannot change in the message.

[Andy]

According the the screenshot above, you are only sending us a gallery name. That is not sufficient for me to know what they are trying to access as I have 30 galleries named "Highlights" all in different categories/sub-categories. Remember, this is part of the problem I was trying to solve by getting breadcrumbs added to the password screen. Ideally, we'd get both the category hierarchy and a link to the gallery in the email.

The way you have it indicated in the screenshot, it also looks like the viewer can remove that information from the email which I'm not sure about.
In the future, maybe links. But links mean non-plain text emails and that means a lot of testing and coding so that everyone gets it accurately. But it's a cool idea.

However, that being said, I think we'll have a solution for you, with the galleries of the same name, John. Stay tuned :D

[mbellot]

In the future, maybe links. But links mean non-plain text emails and that means a lot of testing and coding so that everyone gets it accurately. But it's a cool idea.

However, that being said, I think we'll have a solution for you, with the galleries of the same name, John. Stay tuned :D

How about a simple breadcrumb (text) trail.

That way you know exactly which "Highlights" gallery is in question (ie. Events -> GoKart-athon 2009 -> Highlights)

No html, just a text based roadmap.

[jfriend]

In the future, maybe links. But links mean non-plain text emails and that means a lot of testing and coding so that everyone gets it accurately. But it's a cool idea.

However, that being said, I think we'll have a solution for you, with the galleries of the same name, John. Stay tuned :D Links do not mean non-plain text emails. Every email client I know of automatically linkifies a link in a plain text email. You can send full http:// links in plain text emails and it will work fine on the receiving end.

If I get an email from someone that says they need a password to the "Kelly" gallery or the "Highlights" gallery, I will have no idea what gallery that is as I have 30 galleries named "Highlights" and five named "Kelly". Just a name isn't enough. Any solution that lets me know which one it is without doing a lot of detective work is fine. Category name and sub-category name is fine too.

[SPK64]

ok, I see the new password page went in last night.

The user can edit any text, there is really not any other info hard coded into the message to help locate a gallery.

If it is a unique gallery name and the user does not edit the message. Then possibly we can help them without un-needed messages.

[Andy]

ok, I see the new password page went in last night.

The user can edit any text, there is really not any other info hard coded into the message to help locate a gallery.

If it is a unique gallery name and the user does not edit the message. Then possibly we can help them without un-needed messages.
Yeah in the future, perhaps we can add a text-based breadcrumb, but for now, you'll need to rely on unique gallery names (far and away the majority of customers do use unique names for galleries).

[SPK64]

Yeah in the future, perhaps we can add a text-based breadcrumb, but for now, you'll need to rely on unique gallery names (far and away the majority of customers do use unique names for galleries).

But why give the user the option to edit the text in the message?

Sure give them the option to add their own text. But the main message should not be able to be altered by the user.

[darryl]

Also -- this change only appears to affect specific galleries with passwords, and *not* site-wide passwords.

[Andy]

But why give the user the option to edit the text in the message?

Sure give them the option to add their own text. But the main message should not be able to be altered by the user.
Yeah we're not doing it the way I suggested :D

We're using Sorcerer's Magic to send to YOU only, in the email, the actual gallery url. There'll be no doubt for you whatsoever. That should go in our next release.

[Andy]

Also -- this change only appears to affect specific galleries with passwords, and *not* site-wide passwords.

:scratch http://andytheme.smugmug.com/

[darryl]

:scratch http://andytheme.smugmug.com/

Sorry, unclear about the "Customer contact email" setting. Thought it was the same as my account e-mail address.

Ok, I guess all the real Pros would know about this. Sorry. :-}

[jfriend]

Yeah we're not doing it the way I suggested :D

We're using Sorcerer's Magic to send to YOU only, in the email, the actual gallery url. There'll be no doubt for you whatsoever. That should go in our next release. Thank you. The URL is needed because I do not have unique gallery names and never will have unique gallery names. I have 30 galleries named "Highlights". I have 40 galleries named "Sara" and so on. They are all in unique sub-categories.