Portrait Photography

[Dooginfif20]

So I have been shooting digital for about a year now and for the most part I have been shooting mostly scenery. My family has been asking my to take pictures of them for a while now but I have been hesitant because I want to have all the equipment I need. I currently have a D90 and 18-105mm f/3.5-5.6 VR. I am looking at picking up the 50mm f/1.4G here soon, but I would like to also pick up an external flash. I have been looking at the SB-600 and SB-800 but for pricing reason I might choose for the cheaper since I dont know the differences between the two or what I should be looking for. The lens I am for the most part set on and am looking for to picking up once it is off of back order. I had recently thought about the 70-200 from Nikkor, Sigma and Tamron, but after more looking into it a lot of people suggested the 50mm or 85mm. Due to the sensor cropping I opted for the 50mm for now.

After all of that my questions are this. What lenses does everyone else recommend? What type of external flash does everyone recommend? Is there anything else that I should consider picking up? I was looking at the Gary Fong defuser as another optional pick up as well. At this point with having very little experience at portrait photography I am all ears and ready to learn! Any comment good or bad is greatly appreciated!

[sweet caroline]

I've been using the sb600 with the Fong lightsphere with some decent results. I'm looking to ugrade to the sb800 soon, but I then I can use both flashes simultaneously. The 50mm lens is a good place to start, I think.

[Art Scott]

After all of that my questions are this.

What lenses does everyone else recommend?
I would recommend the Siggy 17-70 f2.8-4.5 and the Siggy 70-200f2.8...........the 70-210 (now it is just 200) for over 25+ yrs
What type of external flash does everyone recommend?
I would recommend the best flash you can afford from one of these companies.......Sigma, Sunpak, Metz or from Nikon like the SB800......................

Is there anything else that I should consider picking up?

A good but inexpensive flash bracket......Custom Brackets Pro-M or if less money then a stroboframe RB/RT.....amin thing is to make sure the camera flips not the flash.............

A tripod of course and get the best you can afford......I really like my 4 section Giottos (MT 9180-no longer made) and my Giottos monopod (P-Pod)

Also save your money for a decent incident light meter (Sekonic L-358 is a good one for portraits and weddings)......it will save your butt one day when it really counts


I was looking at the Gary Fong defuser as another optional pick up as well.
I use the original softbox from LumiQuest....... as it was the only one that allowed meto use it onmore than 1 type of flash.......i have used the fong type and do not like them as they are heavier and will not fold flat for storage................MY BIGGEST GRIPE IS THE FONG STYLE WILL ONLY FIT THE EXACT FLASH MODEL it was made for......ones like the LumiQuest will fit nearly all shoe and handle mount flases.............



At this point with having very little experience at portrait photography I am all ears and ready to learn! Any comment good or bad is greatly appreciated!


answers above in large bold print

[Candid Arts]

Art you mentioned a flash bracket. How important are these? I have the 580 EX II and 420 EX, and am starting to try and learn some lighting techniques. Is a flash bracket something I should seriously get like a week ago, or something that's just one of those nice things to have? Is this what you are talking about (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/430862-REG/Custom_Brackets_DIGITALPROM_Digital_PRO_M_Bracket. html)? I'm not sure what you mean by amin thing is to make sure the camera flips not the flash.... Is that curved thing like a track that the camera rotates to portrait mode while the bracket stays in the same place? I found a few of the StroboFrame ones, but didn't see the "RB/RT" you mentioned. These are A LOT more in my price range. But which one to buy? How much is the quality difference between the two brands also... And...on-top of the bracket, I'm guessing you'll need to get some sort of hotshoe cord to attach the flash to the hotshoe correct?

Also, I've noticed with the diffuser I have for my 580 that it gives it more of a yellow tint to the photo (granted that's only on my LCD and I'm shooting in RAW so that can be fixed). It is a SBM Supreme Light Diffuser. It was pretty much the cheapest one I could find at that point. But now that I'm getting into lighting more, I'd like to get better equip. In regards to the softbox from LumiQuest, would you suggest the mini or the regular? Should I get the regular for my 580 and the mini for my 420? Regular for both?

Thank you.

[Art Scott]

Art you mentioned a flash bracket.
How important are these?
I find them indispensable for people shooting (or pets)......I would not attempt a portrait or wedding (especially) without one.


I have the 580 EX II and 420 EX, and am starting to try and learn some lighting techniques. Is a flash bracket something I should seriously get like a week ago, or something that's just one of those nice things to have?
SHOULD ALREADY HAVE HAD...................


Is this what you are talking about (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/430862-REG/Custom_Brackets_DIGITALPROM_Digital_PRO_M_Bracket. html)?
yes

I'm not sure what you mean by . Is that curved thing like a track that the camera rotates to portrait mode while the bracket stays in the same place?
CORRECT


I found a few of the StroboFrame ones, but didn't see the "RB/RT" you mentioned. These are A LOT more in my price range. But which one to buy?

The STROBOFRAME PRO RL (http://www.tiffen.com/displayproduct.html?tablename=stroboframe&itemnum=310-700) ..... dang names are changed by come companies like socks for a lot of people:D

How much is the quality difference between the two brands also...
not tons of quality.....I have used STROBOFRAMES OFR OVER 25+yrs.....but really like the idea of the feet on the Custom Bracket Pro M........

And...on-top of the bracket, I'm guessing you'll need to get some sort of hotshoe cord to attach the flash to the hotshoe correct?
I have used Nikon cords and also 3rd party cords and really dislike having them wrapped around the brack and they seem to just quit working(for me) without giving any signs of going bad.....so now I use RF triggers from ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/Radio-Slave-Flash-Trigger-Wireless-16-Channel-RD616_W0QQitemZ350164330800QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item350164330800&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50).......I just use a rubber band ot hold the reciever out of my way....have had no probs since I started using just a little over 2 yrs ago...........


In regards to the softbox from LumiQuest, would you suggest the mini or the regular?
I use the regular (used to be called the ORIGINAL)

Should I get the regular for my 580 and the mini for my 420? Regular for both?
Just the larger one.....it used a rubber/velcro wrap around the flash head and the softbox sticks to that with velcro......I use them because they fold flat,I only lose ~1 stop of light and with the rubber/velcro band I can fit to any of my flashes (Konica Minolta 5600hs, sunpak 622's, Vivatar 285hv.....)

Thank you.
You're very welcome..........



answers above in bold.............................................. ..

[Scrubs]

don't feel you have to hold out for expensive equipment.
to get started right away why not just by an old screw fit manual
prime with adapter -such as a 50mm pentacon that will stop down to 1.8
for around 20$ they are amazing value for money!

and any old strobe with manual control.. you can't go wrong
with a vivitar 283, 285... they all pretty much do the same thing
if you're not worried about all the gubbins. couple with some
cheap shoot through umbrellas, brackets you will be good to go
probably all set for around $250 max including, lights, lens, umbrellas..

going the cheap route doesent nessascarrilly mean you are gonna sacrifice quality...

there is a good list of stuff you may wanna consider here
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html
such as portable stands, brackets etc...

Bottom line is you don't have to go out and spend a fortune
on a flash such as the 580ex etc.. if you are gonna be using
them 'off camera' and/or not utilising the extras you are paying for.

[Art Scott]

don't feel you have to hold out for expensive equipment.
to get started right away why not just by an old screw fit manual
prime with adapter -such as a 50mm pentacon that will stop down to 1.8
for around 20$ they are amazing value for money!
Penticon lenses are really good and with the m49 screw adapter yes they will work........sort of......99% of the systems may NOT show focus confirmation or meter.....hence another need for a handheld incident meter.

and any old strobe with manual control.. you can't go wrong
with a vivitar 283, 285... they all pretty much do the same thing
if you're not worried about all the gubbins.
This is far from correct.......even the NEW Vivatar 283/85hv require a SAFE SYNC device or the spike of the flash can destroy your digital SLR or even a point and shoot......if you're going to spend $50-100 on a safe sync then you might as well be using a RF strobe trigger I linked to above..........you cannot plug directly into 99% of the studio strobesfor the same reason......I blew a ProSumer Point and shoot when the Konica Minolta A2 first came out by hooking directly to a Vivatar 283........



couple with some
cheap shoot through umbrellas, brackets you will be good to go
probably all set for around $250 max including, lights, lens, umbrellas..

going the cheap route doesent nessascarrilly mean you are gonna sacrifice quality...
SOMETIMES

there is a good list of stuff you may wanna consider here
http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/03/lighting-101.html
such as portable stands, brackets etc...

Bottom line is you don't have to go out and spend a fortune
on a flash such as the 580ex etc.. if you are gonna be using
them 'off camera' and/or not utilising the extras you are paying for.
Correct you do not have to spend a fortune, but warrantied used or refurb is most of the time better than going the cheap manual old stuff route....
For a beginner going the cheap route is not always the best as one needs to know what to expect from the cheap stuff.......I also have tele lenses from the Kiev line of Medium format cameras that will be adapted to my DSLR via screw mount adapters but I already know that I will have set the aperture manually, and that focus confirm and meter will not work (properly at the least)..............



Rebuttles above in bold

[ziggy53]

Dooginfif20,

Portraiture is a whole "class" of photography and may require multiple lenses for different situations and intents. It also includes careful control of lighting and background.

For a quick introduction look at:

http://photo.net/learn/portraits/
http://www.ephotozine.com/article/Portrait-photography--a-practical-guide-4670
http://digital-photography-school.com/portrait-photography-tips
http://www.filmlessphotos.ca/IndexPage.htm

As for lenses on a Nikon crop camera I would suggest the:

AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.4D for full-length
AF Nikkor 85mm f/1.8D for head-and-shoulder
AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED for group shots

[Dooginfif20]

Wow what a great response! So many comments I dont know where to begin!


Art thanks again for the always informative information! I had really looked at the Sigma 70-200 2.8 and the Tamron 70-200 2.8, but after looking around, talking to more people, and seeing examples of the 50mm 1.4 and 85mm 1.8 I was drawn in to the look and feel of those images. At this point the first lens I am going to probably purchase is going to be the 50mm 1.4G. Its in my price range and has nothing but great reviews. I am unsure about the advantage of the flash bracket. I know that the SB-600 and 800 rotate and point and almost any direction so I am not sure if it is a must have right now. I will look into it more so I appreciate the advice on that! As for the tripod this is something I have been looking into for a while now. The tripod I have works but to me is very limited and if I switch to shooting more of a variety of photography I know I am going to have to upgrade. I am glad you brought up the light meter. I am totally behind when it comes to lighting so I dont know what the advantage of having one is. What is it used for? Is it to ensure that my light metering is correct if I am shooting in manual? Please feel free to explain this to me! The Fong diffuser I had seen someone use before and thought it turned out good results. As for the not being able to fold it up I totally agree with you there! That was one reason why I hadnt purchased it yet because I wasnt sure if I would have room for it in my bag o tricks! All in all Art you do nothing but provide help for me all the time and I appreciate your comments!


Scrubs thanks for your comments as well! As I see your point with not having to have the most expensive gear out there. To me it is an investment so I feel I get out of it what I put into it. Now does that mean that Nikkor and Nikon stuff is always going to be better? Not exactly. When I first started looking at lenses I was almost set on the Nikkor 70-200 2.8 and that puppy was $1800. Now after much search I realized at some point I am not going to see a return on that when I can purchase the Tamron or Sigma for less then half that amount. I realize that the Nikkor lens is pretter amazing, but I agree with you that the most expensive isnt always going to be the best, so I turned it down and focused on the other two. For that specific range I just need to decide what is more important fast AF or quiet AF.


Ziggy you are always a wealth of knowledge! Thank you for the links! They were full of a ton of information and since I dont have too many friends out here who are into photography my learning comes from here and other online sources. The 50mm f/1.4D is great but with the G just coming out and a slight increase in price I have decided to go with the G. The 85mm f/1.8D is on my list after the 50mm. Surprisingly nobody had ever brought up the 17-55 f/2.8 but I think I am going to have to look into that! Do you have any words of wisdom on flashes and such?

[Candid Arts]

answers above in bold.............................................. ..
Rebuttles above in bold

Art, thank you so much for your outstanding replies. Great information.:bow

So, what is SO NECESSARY about having a flash bracket? What exactly do they accomplish? Also, what do you mean by feet on the custom bracket PRO-M? I'm looking at the photo, and can't seem to see any "feet" on there. Explain please?

All said and done...if I don't have any money, but will be doing a few weddings this spring-fall, do I NEED the Custom Bracket PRO-M (@ $280 on B&H), or will the StroboFrame last me as long as I need it to last and perform all functions I will need it to perform?

I finally found the PRO-RL ($144 @ B&H) you mentioned, would this work just as fine or no (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=105119&is=REG)? Quite the price difference between the PRO-RL and the Flip Bracket ($73 @ B&H). I also can't seem to tell how exactly the flash mounts to the PRO-RL. Where as the PRO-M and Flip Bracket both have what looks to be a "hot shoe" of some sort attachment for the flash.

[Candid Arts]

Also, would something like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498744-REG/Canon_1950B001_OC_E3_Off_Camera_Shoe.html) work for the hot shoe cord? Or should I do something like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/164264-REG/Canon_2478A002_ST_E2_Transmitter.html)? I know you showed me the Ebay wireless transmitter, but I'm kind of particular to not third party stuff, especially when I would need to get adapter after adapter to make it work when the Canon specific one will just work.

[Art Scott]

Art, thank you so much for your outstanding replies. Great information.:bow

So, what is SO NECESSARY about having a flash bracket? What exactly do they accomplish? Also, what do you mean by feet on the custom bracket PRO-M? I'm looking at the photo, and can't seem to see any "feet" on there. Explain please?
1-gets flash off of the hotshoe and above the lens more .....thus pushing the shadows back and down and not just straight back onto background......if using a diffuser it everything up off the camera.....LOOKS VERY PRO........
The link you gave me to CB site showed the pro m....if you look at the bottom there is a piece of metal(black) sticking out from under the left side of camera coming at you (the viewer).....

All said and done...if I don't have any money, but will be doing a few weddings this spring-fall, do I NEED the Custom Bracket PRO-M (@ $280 on B&H), or will the StroboFrame last me as long as I need it to last and perform all functions I will need it to perform?

In all the years I have had mine it has never failed....will it last as long, do not know for sure......mine has lasted and i really work mine......I am cleaning out a lot of my equipment to buy new for tax purposes so in the next few days I'll be adding to my FOR SALE thread

I finally found the PRO-RL ($144 @ B&H) you mentioned, would this work just as fine or no (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=105119&is=REG)?
YES -

Quite the price difference between the PRO-RL and the Flip Bracket ($73 @ B&H). I also can't seem to tell how exactly the flash mounts to the PRO-RL. Where as the PRO-M and Flip Bracket both have what looks to be a "hot shoe" of some sort attachment for the flash.
The Pro-RL needs and accessory called a flash adapter....it is below the PRO-RL At BH....cost 14.95.....I do not have one for mine as I was using mostly handle mount flashes (sunpak 622) and I have a flash adapter quick release and a handle mount flash adapter (~$45for both)......




answers in bold above

EDIT: i forgot....most modern new flash units come with a plastic foot that has a 1/4-20 threaded hole in it......then all you need is a 1/4-20 thumb screw and you save 14.95.......this is how I use my Konica Minolta 5600HS flash , since minolta and now Sony have a very propitiatory shoe on their flashes.......

[Art Scott]

Also, would something like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498744-REG/Canon_1950B001_OC_E3_Off_Camera_Shoe.html) work for the hot shoe cord?
It will work.....but as I stated earlier they have a tendancy to quit on me.....so I went to these 16 channel triggers (http://cgi.ebay.com/Radio-Slave-Flash-Trigger-Wireless-16-Channel-RD616_W0QQitemZ350164330800QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item350164330800&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)........ not only are they inexpensive ( i have 5 receivers and 3 transmmitters) they have been reliable and being radio frequency they are omni directional......the canon one linked below is an IR beam type......so I do not know ifit will work with the flash directly above it......the ones I linked to from ebay will work as a matter of fact the person who recommended them to me was a canonite from Austrailia and he is pretty rough on his equipment also........as for an extra adapters the shoe adapter shown in the photo for an xtra $5 is all you should need.....my flash has a pc connector so I did not need that adapter.....the other adapter that caome in the kit allow me to connect to sunpak 622 and also my Paul C Buff White Lightning Studio Strobes.........


Or should I do something like this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/164264-REG/Canon_2478A002_ST_E2_Transmitter.html)? I know you showed me the Ebay wireless transmitter, but I'm kind of particular to not third party stuff, especially when I would need to get adapter after adapter to make it work when the Canon specific one will just work.
Included above


in bold above

[Candid Arts]

So I could use that PC cord for the 580 EX II, and for the 420 I would need the hot shoe adapter shown in that link you gave me for the 16 channel trigger correct? So the transmitter mounts to the hot shoe on my camera, receiver plugs in to the flash (580) some how... How does the PC cord connect to whatever its supposed to connect to?

Sorry, I just seem to be brain dead right now on how this kit actually connects my camera to my flash. I'm guessing the kit only connects the camera to 580, then 580 wireless to 420 as it is now. Correct?

[Art Scott]

So I could use that PC cord for the 580 EX II, and for the 420 I would need the hot shoe adapter shown in that link you gave me for the 16 channel trigger correct? So the transmitter mounts to the hot shoe on my camera, receiver plugs in to the flash (580) some how... How does the PC cord connect to whatever its supposed to connect to?

Sorry, I just seem to be brain dead right now on how this kit actually connects my camera to my flash. I'm guessing the kit only connects the camera to 580, then 580 wireless to 420 as it is now. Correct?

Is there a pc connection on your flash units anywhere.....I finally read my instruction book on my KM5600HS and there it was under a black rubber plug.....very hard to see even with bright lights.......if not then you need the shoe adapter shown in the photos from ebay.....
So the tramsmitter slides onto the hot shoe......then if you have a pc connector the pc cable connects to pc connector on flash (or shoe adapter) and also plugs into the receiver.....then i just bundle it neatly and rubber band it in place out of the way.........

[Candid Arts]

Is there a pc connection on your flash units anywhere.....I finally read my instruction book on my KM5600HS and there it was under a black rubber plug.....very hard to see even with bright lights.......if not then you need the shoe adapter shown in the photos from ebay.....
So the tramsmitter slides onto the hot shoe......then if you have a pc connector the pc cable connects to pc connector on flash (or shoe adapter) and also plugs into the receiver.....then i just bundle it neatly and rubber band it in place out of the way.........

The 580 EX II does have a PC connector. Same thing, under a rubber plug.

I guess where my confusion is is on the reciever the only thing on it is the male 1/4" plug, with the adapter female 1/4" to male 3.5mm, the pc cord only has a male 3.5mm. So how does the male 3.5mm on the PC cord attach to the male 3.5mm on the receiver cord?

[Art Scott]

The 580 EX II does have a PC connector. Same thing, under a rubber plug.

I guess where my confusion is is on the reciever the only thing on it is the male 1/4" plug, with the adapter female 1/4" to male 3.5mm, the pc cord only has a male 3.5mm. So how does the male 3.5mm on the PC cord attach to the male 3.5mm on the receiver cord?

They do not show the pc connector on the receiver, but it is there........it is on the back side, just below where the 1/4" mono plug goes into the case.

[Candid Arts]

They do not show the pc connector on the receiver, but it is there........it is on the back side, just below where the 1/4" mono plug goes into the case.
GOTCHYA! That makes SO much more sense. Thank you. Well this sounds like the right way to go.

So, to sum it up. Things that should be REQUIRED to shoot people or a wedding:
Flash Bracket (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=117422&is=REG) + Flash Mount Adapter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=544394&is=REG)
RF Trigger (http://cgi.ebay.com/Radio-Slave-Flash-Trigger-Wireless-16-Channel-RD616_W0QQitemZ350164330800QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item350164330800&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)
Diffuser (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=544394&is=REG) - One for each flash?

Then I'm guessing some sort of stand for the second flash? Should I use my tripod for the second flash (at a 45* angle to subject and camera right?) and hand hold my camera, or put my camera on tripod and get another type of light stand for the second flash (Maybe a monopod with the feet then that extend out to make it able to stand on it's own (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/256973-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_678_678_Universal_Foldi ng_Base.html))? Or something like this possibly (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/359885-REG/Impact_2205_Light_Stand_Black_.html)?

[Art Scott]

GOTCHYA! That makes SO much more sense. Thank you. Well this sounds like the right way to go.

So, to sum it up. Things that should be REQUIRED to shoot people or a wedding:
Flash Bracket (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=117422&is=REG) + Flash Mount Adapter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=544394&is=REG)
yup........If either one of your flashes came with a funky shaped stand with the 1/4-20 threaded hole in the botom of it, then you can save the ~$15 for the adapter....


RF Trigger (http://cgi.ebay.com/Radio-Slave-Flash-Trigger-Wireless-16-Channel-RD616_W0QQitemZ350164330800QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_D efaultDomain_0?hash=item350164330800&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)
YUP


Diffuser (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=544394&is=REG) - One for each flash?
DAS CORRECT


Then I'm guessing some sort of stand for the second flash? Should I use my tripod for the second flash (at a 45* angle to subject and camera right?) and hand hold my camera, or put my camera on tripod and get another type of light stand for the second flash (Maybe a monopod with the feet then that extend out to make it able to stand on it's own (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/256973-REG/Manfrotto_by_Bogen_Imaging_678_678_Universal_Foldi ng_Base.html))?
not recommended a giottos P-Pod is cheaper tah that plus a monopod.....yeck.....:D
Or something like this possibly (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/359885-REG/Impact_2205_Light_Stand_Black_.html)?
tHIS is best idea of the 2



ABOVE AND BELOW:D

I would get a diffuser for each flash as time goes on.....start with 1 and learn your 1 light lighting then move on up.....as for a stand.......I wouod go with an inexpensive light stand.....I have a monopod with the legs and even tho I love it for what I got it for wild life and nature when the tri would not work I would not recommend using it for a light stand or a camera stand to leave unattended for any reason:D......bad things happen to good people:D:D...................inexpensive lightstands...AMVONA off ebay makes eome decent ones....there are others or an old cheap velbon or vivatar tripod that will extend to 6 or 7' including the center column............I recommend a light stand tho....with a flash mount bracket like this one LINKED HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/Flash-Light-Stand-Mount-Bracket-White-Diffuser-Umbrella_W0QQitemZ290301298226QQcmdZViewItemQQptZA U_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?hash=item290301 298226&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)....this comes with an umbrella for ~$20.....it just attaches to the top of the light stand....best price I have seen.....my bracket was $30 alone all by it self......

[Scrubs]

Scrubs thanks for your comments as well! As I see your point with not having to have the most expensive gear out there. To me it is an investment so I feel I get out of it what I put into it. Now does that mean that Nikkor and Nikon stuff is always going to be better? Not exactly. When I first started looking at lenses I was almost set on the Nikkor 70-200 2.8 and that puppy was $1800. Now after much search I realized at some point I am not going to see a return on that when I can purchase the Tamron or Sigma for less then half that amount. I realize that the Nikkor lens is pretter amazing, but I agree with you that the most expensive isnt always going to be the best, so I turned it down and focused on the other two. For that specific range I just need to decide what is more important fast AF or quiet AF.


No Worries mate, I only mentioned the old style primes because IMO
they are increddible value for money, I shoot on a Hasselblad and have
4 extremely nice (and pricey) Carl zeiss lenses for it and the old 50mm pentacon gets just as much use when mounted on my canon as any of the others. Sure there is no focus assist etc.. but there isent on the zeis lenses either.

An incident light meter (or flash meter most likely in your case) is what you will need to measure your strobes with as it is impossible to do so with the ambient (reflected) light meter built in to your camera.

The crude principle is that you would (for instance) enter in the
the shutter speed you wanted to shoot at and the film speed (iso)
you were using. then you would point the meter at either the light source
or camera (depending on how many lights you intended using) and it will tell you the aperture to use for correct exposure. this way you could
set the other light for example 2 stops less to create shadow detail etc..

I have a sekonic 758 - they are pretty pricey but I have no regrets
and love it. It has a few bells and whistles that can read and display
the ratios of mixed ambient and flash light and also doubles as a great
reflected 1 degree spot meter among a few other things.
But like I said it's pricey, decide whether you want the extra bells and whistles, if not just go for a lower specced model.
You generally can't go much wrong with a sekonic.

[Candid Arts]

[/b]

ABOVE AND BELOW:D

I would get a diffuser for each flash as time goes on.....start with 1 and learn your 1 light lighting then move on up.....as for a stand.......I wouod go with an inexpensive light stand.....I have a monopod with the legs and even tho I love it for what I got it for wild life and nature when the tri would not work I would not recommend using it for a light stand or a camera stand to leave unattended for any reason:D......bad things happen to good people:D:D...................inexpensive lightstands...AMVONA off ebay makes eome decent ones....there are others or an old cheap velbon or vivatar tripod that will extend to 6 or 7' including the center column............I recommend a light stand tho....with a flash mount bracket like this one LINKED HERE (http://cgi.ebay.com/Flash-Light-Stand-Mount-Bracket-White-Diffuser-Umbrella_W0QQitemZ290301298226QQcmdZViewItemQQptZA U_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?hash=item290301 298226&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)....this comes with an umbrella for ~$20.....it just attaches to the top of the light stand....best price I have seen.....my bracket was $30 alone all by it self......

Yeah I have one foot stand that I got with my 580, but obviously fits on the 420 I just got used that didn't have a foot stand. So I've got my 420 on that foot stand, hence the need for the adapter for the 580 to mount to the flash bracket.

I have a Manfrotto Monopod, but that three leg adapter is actually more expensive on its own than the lighting stand I linked you.

Ok. I think I've got it now. Thanks SO much. Now I just need to get it all, practice with it, and practice some more.

[Art Scott]

Yeah I have one foot stand that I got with my 580, but obviously fits on the 420 I just got used that didn't have a foot stand. So I've got my 420 on that foot stand, hence the need for the adapter for the 580 to mount to the flash bracket.

I have a Manfrotto Monopod, but that three leg adapter is actually more expensive on its own than the lighting stand I linked you.

Ok. I think I've got it now. Thanks SO much. Now I just need to get it all, practice with it, and practice some more.

Glad i could help........oh seach BH for another canon foot and you might be surprised as to the money you can save...sometimes......most I have seen run about~$5.......

Good luck.

[Candid Arts]

Ok. So now on top of the:
Light Stand + Flash Mount Bracket
Flash Bracket + Hot Shoe Adapter
RF Trigger
Diffuser

I need to get a light meter? I have no idea even what this does exactly or how to use it. How NECESSARY is it? Remember, I don't have any money, so the less I can get away with the better right now.

[Candid Arts]

Glad i could help........oh seach BH for another canon foot and you might be surprised as to the money you can save...sometimes......most I have seen run about~$5.......

Good luck.

Awesome. Great tip. That would replace the Hot Shoe Adapter piece for the flash bracket correct?

[Candid Arts]

oh seach BH for another canon foot and you might be surprised as to the money you can save...sometimes......most I have seen run about~$5.......

Good luck.

I can't seem to find one on BH, eBay, or Canon's website. Any ideas?

[Candid Arts]

Ok. So my camera has a PC port on it. Can I not just use a PC to PC cord and connect the flash straight to the camera then mount the flash on the flash bracket? This way I wouldn't have to buy the RF trigger?

[Scrubs]

Ok. So my camera has a PC port on it. Can I not just use a PC to PC cord and connect the flash straight to the camera then mount the flash on the flash bracket? This way I wouldn't have to buy the RF trigger?

Yes :thumb

[Candid Arts]

Yes :thumb

Okay, so my other concern then is Art was saying that he's had failure issues with the hot shoe sync cords, would I be encountering the same issues with the PC to PC cord or would it be as reliable as the RF trigger, or more, or less?

[Scrubs]

Okay, so my other concern then is Art was saying that he's had failure issues with the hot shoe sync cords, would I be encountering the same issues with the PC to PC cord or would it be as reliable as the RF trigger, or more, or less?

Hi, the only failures I have encountered with the hot shoe syncs are their flimsiness i.e the plastic case likes to break off
and if this does it can stress the wire contacts if not sorted but they are very easy to repair (not much going on inside) and easy to prevent
doing so by just adding strong tape round the seams so they won't come apart. As for misfires... I would guess you would be
getting considerably more with an ebay wireless trigger.


PC sync cord from your camera directly into the sync socket that is on your 580 will be very reliable. much more so than the ebay triggers
Then you can fire off the 420 and any other flash that doesent have a sync socket with an optical slave like this for around 8$ or cheaper.
Just one wire to carry around then.

http://shashinki.com/shop/images/SGL-SYK3-BOTTOM.jpg

[Candid Arts]

Hi, the only failures I have encountered with the hot shoe syncs are their flimsiness i.e the plastic case likes to break off
and if this does it can stress the wire contacts if not sorted but they are very easy to repair (not much going on inside) and easy to prevent
doing so by just adding strong tape round the seams so they won't come apart. As for misfires... I would guess you would be
getting considerably more with an ebay wireless trigger.


PC sync cord from your camera directly into the sync socket that is on your 580 will be very reliable. much more so than the ebay triggers
Then you can fire off the 420 and any other flash that doesent have a sync socket with an optical slave like this for around 8$ or cheaper.
Just one wire to carry around then.

Couldn't I just use the IR capabilities of the 580 EX II as a master flash to fire the 420? Kinda confused on the BOLD section above I guess... Are saying if I wanted to use the 420 (or any other flash) as my master since it doesn't have a PC sync cord? Why would I want to do that though when the 580 is a better flash and can wirelessly trigger the 420?

[Candid Arts]

It was hard to find a male to male PC sync cord! Everything was male to female. Anyways...this would work right (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40258-REG/Paramount_PMB6C_PC_Male_to_PC.html) or this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/91966-REG/Samigon_CSA521_PC_Male_to_PC.html)?

[Scrubs]

It was hard to find a male to male PC sync cord! Everything was male to female. Anyways...this would work right (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40258-REG/Paramount_PMB6C_PC_Male_to_PC.html) or this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/91966-REG/Samigon_CSA521_PC_Male_to_PC.html)?

Sorry, yes if you just wanted to use the 420 slaved to the 580
the internal infared would work if you buy/use any more flashes
that are not infared compatible, use the optical slave route.

The cord you posted will work but 21" is a little short and not
gonna give you much working distance even though the coils
stretch to 5 foot they will probably want to pull you stand down when they do.

mpex do a 15 footer for $10 if that's more use to you?
http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,861.html

[Candid Arts]

Sorry, yes if you just wanted to use the 420 slaved to the 580
the internal infared would work if you buy/use any more flashes
that are not infared compatible, use the optical slave route.

The cord you posted will work but 21" is a little short and not
gonna give you much room to move around.

mpex do a 15 footer for $10 if that's more use to you?
http://www.mpex.com/browse.cfm/4,861.html

21" wouldn't be enough to go up a flash bracket and connect to the camera? I wouldn't be using it to move my master flash around by hand, I mean I suppose I could, but I have a second flash now for that.

[Scrubs]

21" wouldn't be enough to go up a flash bracket and connect to the camera? I wouldn't be using it to move my master flash around by hand, I mean I suppose I could, but I have a second flash now for that.


it would be more than enough to go up a flash bracket as it stretches to 5 foot but as it is coiled will probably want to pull lighting stands down at that distance or any approaching it. You will know more your regarding intended lighting set-up(s) than I and if you don't forsee moving your key light any further away than the length you posted - the one you linked to will be fine.

[Candid Arts]

it would be more than enough to go up a flash bracket as it stretches to 5 foot but as it is coiled will probably want to pull lighting stands down at that distance or any approaching it. You will know more your regarding intended lighting set-up(s) than I and if you don't forsee moving your key light any further away than the length you posted - the one you linked to will be fine.

I don't forsee needing more than 5', and that'd be hand held probably. 580 will either be on the camera, on the flash bracket, or stretched out as far as my arm can reach (which would be less than 5'). The 420 will just be fired by the 580 via IR. So I'm guessing this will be fine.

Now...and I hope this is the last question...is there any benefit to using a hot shoe adapter to the PC sync cord? By this I mean, will the PC sync cord have full control over the flash as the Hot Shoe adapter would?

[Candid Arts]

I need to get a light meter? I have no idea even what this does exactly or how to use it. How NECESSARY is it? Remember, I don't have any money, so the less I can get away with the better right now.

Lastly this hasn't gotten addressed yet. Any ideas?

[Scrubs]

Lastly this hasn't gotten addressed yet. Any ideas?

In addition to what I said in post 20..

If it meant going without one and buying the cheapest
you can find.. buy the cheapest. it will save you a lot of time
and you will learn how to reproduce the effects you create
more easily.

with that being said some people get by without them fine,
I used to work without one. So see how you feel before investing
but there is no denying they come in very handy and save a lot of time.

I suppose it would also depend on what kind of things you
are going to be photographing. if its portraits I would be
more inclined to say buy one. but if it's event photography
or sports or whatever where the subject will be in accessible to meter
or you will be shooting TTL mostly, and not manual settings
then there is not much need.

[Scrubs]

I don't forsee needing more than 5', and that'd be hand held probably. 580 will either be on the camera, on the flash bracket, or stretched out as far as my arm can reach (which would be less than 5'). The 420 will just be fired by the 580 via IR. So I'm guessing this will be fine.

Now...and I hope this is the last question...is there any benefit to using a hot shoe adapter to the PC sync cord? By this I mean, will the PC sync cord have full control over the flash as the Hot Shoe adapter would?

Nothing I can think of (I am tired :D) but one thing worth bearing in mind is
that the pc cable will not carry TTL information so you won't be able to use TTL mode while off the camera....so......if that is something you would
have preferred you would need a cable like one of these
(depending on your camera model) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00019JPRO?ie=UTF8&tag=diy0c-20
instead of the PC sync cable..

[Candid Arts]

In addition to what I said in post 20..

If it meant going without one and buying the cheapest
you can find.. buy the cheapest. it will save you a lot of time
and you will learn how to reproduce the effects you create
more easily.

with that being said some people get by without them fine,
I used to work without one. So see how you feel before investing
but there is no denying they come in very handy and save a lot of time.

I suppose it would also depend on what kind of things you
are going to be photographing. if its portraits I would be
more inclined to say buy one. but if it's event photography
or sports or whatever where the subject will be in accessible to meter
or you will be shooting TTL mostly, and not manual settings
then there is not much need.

I don't normally usual manual mode on my flash as I don't really know how to fully use it yet. So I normally leave it on E-TTL mode. So you're saying by this I don't really need a light meter then? at least for now?

It would primarily be for portraits and weddings and such. With the occasional still life type stuff as well.

Nothing I can think of (I am tired :D) but one thing worth bearing in mind is
that the pc cable will not carry TTL information so you won't be able to use TTL mode while off the camera....so......if that is something you would
have preferred you would need a cable like one of these
(depending on your camera model) http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00019JPRO?ie=UTF8&tag=diy0c-20
instead of the PC sync cable..

So I'm not entirely sure what the TTL stuff is. Going off my above statement, I'm guessing I would need the Hot Shoe cord, like the one you provided in the link (but the canon version (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/498744-REG/Canon_1950B001_OC_E3_Off_Camera_Shoe.html))?

[Art Scott]

I can't seem to find one on BH, eBay, or Canon's website. Any ideas?

Me either.....

[Art Scott]

21" wouldn't be enough to go up a flash bracket and connect to the camera? I wouldn't be using it to move my master flash around by hand, I mean I suppose I could, but I have a second flash now for that.

I use short cables when using cables.....that is why I went RF (radio Frequency).......

[Art Scott]

Ok. So now on top of the:
Light Stand + Flash Mount Bracket
Flash Bracket + Hot Shoe Adapter
RF Trigger
Diffuser

I need to get a light meter? I have no idea even what this does exactly or how to use it. How NECESSARY is it? Remember, I don't have any money, so the less I can get away with the better right now.

Light meter.....your camera cannot meter flash for a lot of situations......mottled lighting outdoors (these are reallly hairy shadows in around trees)......a decent flash menter will meter both flash and ambient light and it will meter incident and reflected(reflected is what your camera does).....incident is done with the use of a white dome on the meter and it makes shooting various skin tones and white lacy dresses much easier.....a sekonic L-358.....even a good used or refurbed one would work.........there are lots of decent brands older used Minolta flash meter lll or lV or shephard FM1000 or polaris meters are pretty easy to find in good shape.......

I do not leave with my camera that I do not take a meter with me.......I do not trust in camera meters.....been scorched 1 time too many by them............

[Art Scott]

Ok. So my camera has a PC port on it. Can I not just use a PC to PC cord and connect the flash straight to the camera then mount the flash on the flash bracket? This way I wouldn't have to buy the RF trigger?

You can....absolutely.......but one day that cord is gonna break in side of the insulating cover and you won't be able to see it........I understand your a broke college student....that is why I have been trying to give you ways to save yourself grief in the long run.....I have PC cables up to 25 feet.....they are now gently coiled waiting for me to decide if I want to put on ebay....because they do not work perfectly for me, but do I want to take a chanceor just toss them and take the loss over getting a bad rep for selling crap on ebay.......I would not put up here for ssale.....I am doing a garage sell in May so maybe there.

[Art Scott]

Hi, the only failures I have encountered with the hot shoe syncs are their flimsiness i.e the plastic case likes to break off
and if this does it can stress the wire contacts if not sorted but they are very easy to repair (not much going on inside) and easy to prevent
doing so by just adding strong tape round the seams so they won't come apart. As for misfires... I would guess you would be
getting considerably more with an ebay wireless trigger.


PC sync cord from your camera directly into the sync socket that is on your 580 will be very reliable. much more so than the ebay triggers
Then you can fire off the 420 and any other flash that doesent have a sync socket with an optical slave like this for around 8$ or cheaper.
Just one wire to carry around then.

http://shashinki.com/shop/images/SGL-SYK3-BOTTOM.jpg

With this any one with a p/s camera anywhere near by will set it off also.....with the RF triggers you have 16 channels to set up and use.......rarely will you run into another photog using the same channels as you....if so them flip a couple switches and your good to go......
At one time a longtime ago I used optical slaves, not el cheapos a inthe photo above......mine were name brand and cost me over $50 each over 20yrs ago........I shot a wedding andall my photos oafterthe ceremony of family and groups (the formals) were under exposed.....not ruined.....just a stop or 2 under.....the next weekend I took someone to be a sherpa and this sherpa saw my flashes firing when I was working with the brides dress and my came was sitting idle on the t-pod.......uncle joe was shooting with flash and causing my strobes to fire......never used optical slaves again, infact just about 2 years ago I sold on here my last pair of P-nut optical slaves........it is RF or noting for me....as long as i have good batteries in the transmitter and reciever I am good to go

[Art Scott]

Couldn't I just use the IR capabilities of the 580 EX II as a master flash to fire the 420? Kinda confused on the BOLD section above I guess... Are saying if I wanted to use the 420 (or any other flash) as my master since it doesn't have a PC sync cord? Why would I want to do that though when the 580 is a better flash and can wirelessly trigger the 420?

If you use the ttl cable that you pictured in the begining, you can use the EttL seting of both flashes.....using a pc cord or an optical slave or the RF triggers means shooting in manual mode.....no ttl metering or camera talking to flash units............
I still prefer manual over givng control to that pesky nano bot inside a camera:D

[Art Scott]

It was hard to find a male to male PC sync cord! Everything was male to female. Anyways...this would work right (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/40258-REG/Paramount_PMB6C_PC_Male_to_PC.html) or this (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/91966-REG/Samigon_CSA521_PC_Male_to_PC.html)?

Paramount is probably the best cord manuafacturer in the world....they have been around for ever it seems

[Candid Arts]

So, final consensus says I need:
Hot Shoe Adapter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=498744&is=REG) (So I can have full TTL operation)
Light Stand (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=359885&is=REG) + Flash Mount (http://cgi.ebay.com/Flash-Light-Stand-Mount-Bracket-White-Diffuser-Umbrella_W0QQitemZ290301298226QQcmdZViewItemQQptZA U_Cameras_Photographic_Accessories?hash=item290301 298226&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1240%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C 240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50)
Flash Bracket (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=117422&is=REG) + Flash Mount Adapter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=52772&is=REG) (or Flash Foot)
Softbox Diffuser (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart_accessories&A=details&Q=&sku=544394&is=REG)
Light Meter (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/221078-REG/Sekonic_401_358_L_358_Flash_Master_Meter.html)

This should be it right?

Ok, now...how about we talk about full manual flash? I'll be reading my manual soon and trying to figure out some on my own, but any help is always and obviously appreciated.

So...Full Manual Flash...THUNDER CATS GOOO!!!:barb

[Scott_Quier]

I'm a little late to the game here but I have few contributions I think will make life a bit easier:

First, seperate your photography needs into portraits and weddings and, on paper, figure out what you need. Then merge the lists and acquire as necessary/possible.

For portraits, you control the lighting, the setting, the action, everything. This is a prime opportunity to work both camera and flash(es) in full manual mode. For this, I would use:

2, maybe 3 flashes/strobes. For each

In studio, you can use optical slaves as you are the only person with a camera. However, RF triggers will pull double duty when/if you choose to work weddings with off-camera flash.
Stand - 'cause off-camera light is sooooo much nicer than on-camera
Modifier - shoot through umbrella, reflecting umbrella, something
Some way to mount the flash and umbrella/modifier on the stand

If you are using more than one flash, then a flash/ambient incident light meter will make your life sooooo much easier. Not a requirement, but it sure will speed up your production, especially if you shift lighting between one pose and the next. As suggested above, a good place to start would be the Sekonic L-358. This thing will enable you to dial in each flash seperate from the others. It will also tell you the ratio between each of the flashes. It will also tell you the ratio between the flashes and the ambient (given that you correctly imput your working ISO and shutter speed). Finally, it will suggest the "proper" aperture to us.

For weddings, there are at least two ways to light: (1) on-camera flash, (2) off-camera light.

If you go on-camera, then a flash bracket that rotates the camera under the flash is an almost "must have". This would mean that you need a cord to connect between your camera and your flash. These used to be very flimsy, but Canon (at least) has recently upgraded them so they are better. They can still fail, but you don't have to treat them with kid-gloves like you used have to. You will also need some sort of light modifier. If possible (ceiling height, color, is there a ceiling?) I like to use a Better Bounce Card. They are cheap (costs something less than $3 to make 3 of them). If no ceiling or the ceiling is dark, then I like to use something like the light scoop (http://www.fototime.com/inv/908195739C4C0D3). With on-camera flash, I use E-TTL, setting FEC appropriate to the circumstances and shot with the camera in full manual mode.

With off-camera flash, you set it and go. There's lots of strategies for setting lights, but the central issue is that the lights are almost certainly going to be full manaul (the EBay triggers don't support E-TTL, or any other camera-flash communication). So a light meter will just about be required, especially if you are setting up more than one light.

By now, you have probably figured out that I do ALL my portraits with full-manual, off-camera lighting - so the bracket isn't required. It also means that I don't use E-TTL for any of my portrait work.

Weddings - I don't use any lighting for the actual ceremony (unless it's outdoors) as most officiants don't allow it. The party, well that's a different story and I use full-manual, off-camera strobes/flashes, adjusting my aperture depending on the distance between the subject and the stationary strobes. Once in a while I am forced to use on-camera flash for the party - depends on the venue of the party.

All my off-camera lighting is triggered with PocketWizards - just more expensive versions of the EBay triggers suggested by Art Scott.

I hope this helps rather than further muddies the waters for you.

[Scott_Quier]

Ok, now...how about we talk about full manual flash? I'll be reading my manual soon and trying to figure out some on my own, but any help is always and obviously appreciated.

So...Full Manual Flash...THUNDER CATS GOOO!!!:barb
Full manual flash - this implies/forces one to abandon E-TTL and things like High-Speed Shutter Synch. It also implies using the camera in full manual mode.:wink

So....

You will need to determine what ISO, aperture, and shutter speed you will want to use.
Working indoors, this is easy:

ISO - things like wedding receptions, etc. I use ISO 800.
Aperture - This is used to control how much flash will contribute to your exposure. The smaller the aperture, the harder your flash will need to work to create a "proper" exposure. I usually shoot between f/2.8 and f/4.
Shutter speed - with manual flash, you are limited to a maximum of 1/250 (research x-sycn speed). The faster your shutter speed the less ambient will contribute to your exposure.

Outdoors, things are a lot more complicated, mostly because you are limited in your shutter speed - thus in your ability to easily control the ambient light. You will need to balance your ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. If it's bright out, you may find yourself shooting at 100, f/16, 1/250 with your flash working as fill at somewhere between f/5.6 and f/11 - in which case your flash is really going to be working hard. If you are using your flash(es) as key light, then they will be working that much harder. Oh, and remember, any modifier you use will steal anywhere between 1/2 and 2 stops of light. Such fun!

[Candid Arts]

Wow. Lots of info. Honestly a bunch of terminology I'm not sure about. So I'll have to re-read, re-read again, re-read what I re-read, and then re-read again. See if I can make some sense out of it. I think my problem is I've just never used flash at all except for a little ETTL on-camera flash, which has had varying success. So I don't really know anything about anything about this flashy flash lighting stuff. It seems that there are so many things that do similar things that it confuses me. As well as the terminology and effect they have, exactly how to use the different things, when to use them, setting them up, shooting, re-setting for each shot? I have no idea. This is gonna take a long time. Damn.

My replies in BOLD below...

I'm a little late to the game here but I have few contributions I think will make life a bit easier:

First, seperate your photography needs into portraits and weddings and, on paper, figure out what you need. Then merge the lists and acquire as necessary/possible.
I don't do a lot of portraits...yet, but I have a couple weddings to do this spring-fall, and would like to get some practice in before hand so that I can practice at the weddings. They are just friends/family, not paid, or little paid, with the understand of my level I'm at, etc...
For portraits, you control the lighting, the setting, the action, everything. This is a prime opportunity to work both camera and flash(es) in full manual mode. For this, I would use:

2, maybe 3 flashes/strobes. For each
I have two Flashes, 580 EX II and 420 EX


In studio, you can use optical slaves as you are the only person with a camera. However, RF triggers will pull double duty when/if you choose to work weddings with off-camera flash.
The Hot Shoe Adapter I listed would work right? For both situations since my 580 will be on the bracket, and 420 will be triggered via IR via the 580...

Stand - 'cause off-camera light is sooooo much nicer than on-camera
Got this on my list.

Modifier - shoot through umbrella, reflecting umbrella, something
Would this be like the umbrella on the flash mount I linked to, and/or the SoftBox I linked to?

Some way to mount the flash and umbrella/modifier on the stand
This would be the flash mount that I linked to correct?


If you are using more than one flash, then a flash/ambient incident light meter will make your life sooooo much easier. Not a requirement, but it sure will speed up your production, especially if you shift lighting between one pose and the next. As suggested above, a good place to start would be the Sekonic L-358. This thing will enable you to dial in each flash seperate from the others. It will also tell you the ratio between each of the flashes. It will also tell you the ratio between the flashes and the ambient (given that you correctly imput your working ISO and shutter speed). Finally, it will suggest the "proper" aperture to us.
How is the term "incident" used in the incident light meter? That's throwing me off a little I think... When you're shifting poses, etc...Are you like moving all your other strobes (in my case the one 420 flash on a stand) around for every new pose, re-metering the light, setting everything up, then shooting? That seems like a lot of time/work for one shot. A lot of standing around waiting for the photographer to set up for the people that are getting their picture taken. So with the Sekonic L-358, you say I can dial in each flash separate of the others, even when my 580 is using IR to trigger the 420? I was under the assumption that the 580 sends all its info to the 420 via that... Am I missing something (probably)? It tells me the ratio that I need or that I have? I'm guessing that I need to have a "proper exposure" correct? So this will tell me how much flash I need for the ambient light, to properly calibrate the flash output power (FEC)? So I normally shoot on Av (Aperture Priority on Canon), so would it then tell me the "proper" shutter speed? Or should I be shooting on Tv (Shutter Speed Priority) and letting the light meter tell me what aperture to use?


For weddings, there are at least two ways to light: (1) on-camera flash, (2) off-camera light.

If you go on-camera, then a flash bracket that rotates the camera under the flash is an almost "must have". This would mean that you need a cord to connect between your camera and your flash. These used to be very flimsy, but Canon (at least) has recently upgraded them so they are better. They can still fail, but you don't have to treat them with kid-gloves like you used have to. You will also need some sort of light modifier. If possible (ceiling height, color, is there a ceiling?) I like to use a Better Bounce Card. They are cheap (costs something less than $3 to make 3 of them). If no ceiling or the ceiling is dark, then I like to use something like the light scoop (http://www.fototime.com/inv/908195739C4C0D3). With on-camera flash, I use E-TTL, setting FEC appropriate to the circumstances and shot with the camera in full manual mode.
The flash bracket and connecting cord I linked to would fulfill that... By light modifier, that would be the SoftBox that I linked to correct? The "Better Bounce Card" seems to be a white piece of paper folded around the flash head (pointed upwards) rubber banded (or another type of attachment) to the base of the flash head...correct? So you shoot the camera in Full manual mode and flash on E-TTL? As I entirely know how to use full manual mode, I prefer Av as my lighting situations and what not tend to change, I guess...I dunno... I shot full manual for awhile, and sometimes just forgot that I was on manual and forgot to adjust stuff, so I'd have way over or under exposed pictures. Is Av appropriate for this or should I start doing full manual again?

With off-camera flash, you set it and go. There's lots of strategies for setting lights, but the central issue is that the lights are almost certainly going to be full manaul (the EBay triggers don't support E-TTL, or any other camera-flash communication). So a light meter will just about be required, especially if you are setting up more than one light.
So as the set up I have now, 580 on camera (will be on bracket) with hot shoe cord, 580 IR triggering the 420 which will be on a stand with an umbrella (maybe, at least a diffuser), I should be shooting the flashes in full manual? I have no idea how to shoot full manual flash...:scratch :cry :rolleyes :huh. On top of not knowing how to shoot full manual flash, I should have a light meter for the current set up I have (or will have soon)?

By now, you have probably figured out that I do ALL my portraits with full-manual, off-camera lighting - so the bracket isn't required. It also means that I don't use E-TTL for any of my portrait work.
[B]So beings I don't know how to use full manual yet, nor do I really do much portraiture, I should still have the bracket and shoot E-TTL as my current list of stuff will alot me to do...right?

Weddings - I don't use any lighting for the actual ceremony (unless it's outdoors) as most officiants don't allow it. The party, well that's a different story and I use full-manual, off-camera strobes/flashes, adjusting my aperture depending on the distance between the subject and the stationary strobes. Once in a while I am forced to use on-camera flash for the party - depends on the venue of the party.
On-camera flash would still consider the bracket with flash mounted correct? So this is not normally suggested for weddings? "Adjust your aperture depending on the distance between the subject and the stationary strobes"? So I'm still assuming we are shooting in either full manual mode (camera) or Tv...correct? What about for Av?

All my off-camera lighting is triggered with PocketWizards - just more expensive versions of the EBay triggers suggested by Art Scott.
[B]So the IR trigger built into the 580 is not a recommended way to trigger the off-camera flash (420)?

I hope this helps rather than further muddies the waters for you.

[Candid Arts]

Replies in BOLD below...

Full manual flash - this implies/forces one to abandon E-TTL and things like High-Speed Shutter Synch. It also implies using the camera in full manual mode.:wink

So....

You will need to determine what ISO, aperture, and shutter speed you will want to use.
I guess my issue is I tend to work outdoors, so that's constantly changing...

Working indoors, this is easy:

ISO - things like wedding receptions, etc. I use ISO 800.
You use ISO 800 for wedding receptions? Because of the normally low light I'm guessing? I can't stand the noise, I try to stay at 400 or below...suitable?

Aperture - This is used to control how much flash will contribute to your exposure. The smaller the aperture, the harder your flash will need to work to create a "proper" exposure. I usually shoot between f/2.8 and f/4.
I tend to shoot close to wide open as well, unless I want to have a wide DOF obviously.

Shutter speed - with manual flash, you are limited to a maximum of 1/250 (research x-sycn speed). The faster your shutter speed the less ambient will contribute to your exposure.
I know about x-sync speed, but even with manual flash, as in High-Speed sync, I can't user higher than 1/250th? Sometimes, as in bright daylight, that's just not enough, especially with an f/5.6 ish or lower... I shot a wedding in summer last year, where at f/4, 1/500th wasn't even enough at ISO 100... So how could I obtain a faster shutter speed over my x-sync speed?

Outdoors, things are a lot more complicated, mostly because you are limited in your shutter speed - thus in your ability to easily control the ambient light. You will need to balance your ISO, aperture, and shutter speed. If it's bright out, you may find yourself shooting at 100, f/16, 1/250 with your flash working as fill at somewhere between f/5.6 and f/11 - in which case your flash is really going to be working hard. If you are using your flash(es) as key light, then they will be working that much harder. Oh, and remember, any modifier you use will steal anywhere between 1/2 and 2 stops of light. Such fun!
So if shooting outdoors, it'll most likely be fill light I'm guess, I have the second flash to try and eliminate shadows...right? So I'm guessing in full manual flash I can't go past my x-sync speed of 1/250th, so I'll be needing to widen my DOF by taking my aperture down a few stops? What if I'm wanting a narrow DOF, outdoors, in bright sunlight, and fill light. Is this not possible with the x-sync speed of only 250th?

[Nikolai]

Just like Scott, I'm late to the game (wow, this thread grew up fast considering it's only two days old.. :wink ), yet I think I have something to say...

Despite all possible budget contraints I strongly recommend against any xTTL technology and speedlites in general. :deal

Portraiture is all about controlling the light and background (as Ziggy already said).
You can use original digital rebel and its lousy 18-65 kit lens and still take wonderful portraits - provided you have control over your light and bg. Our very own Yuri Pautov has been working with Sony DSC 707 for the longest time, so it's really not the camera question...

Speedltes/TTL is great for PJ work and other situations when you simply must be extremely mobile (events, redcarpets, etc.)
But for Portraiture - come on :huh :dunno What you need is reliably controllable light and - people don't often realize this until much later into the game - extensive set of modifiers and environmental light control, i.e. control of light handling properties of your studio.

[Candid Arts]

Just like Scott, I'm late to the game (wow, this thread grew up fast considering it's only two days old.. :wink ), yet I think I have something to say...

Despite all possible budget contraints I strongly recommend against any xTTL technology and speedlites in general. :deal

Portraiture is all about controlling the light and background (as Ziggy already said).
You can use original digital rebel and its lousy 18-65 kit lens and still take wonderful portraits - provided you have control over your light and bg. Our very own Yuri Pautov has been working with Sony DSC 707 for the longest time, so it's really not the camera question...

Speedltes/TTL is great for PJ work and other situations when you simply must be extremely mobile (events, redcarpets, etc.)
But for Portraiture - come on :huh :dunno What you need is reliably controllable light and - people don't often realize this until much later into the game - extensive set of modifiers and environmental light control, i.e. control of light handling properties of your studio.

PJ work? So pretty much everything we've been talking about to use my 580 and 420, throw away for what I'm wanting to do? Invest in studio lighting and strobes? Haul all that around to weddings and such and set up, re-configure for every shot?

[Scott_Quier]

Since you have the 580 and the 420, you are set for studio if you want to use E-TTL and don't mind having the 580 on your camera. The 580, mounted on your camera (with a bracket) will by your master and will, via the IR communications to the 420, both set and trigger the 420. No need for RF triggers or cables or anything else. It's when the 580 is NOT on the camera that you are "forced" to go full manual.

A softbox is a modifier and does much the same job as the shoot through umby.

How is the term "incident" used in the incident light meter? That's throwing me off a little I think... When you're shifting poses, etc...Are you like moving all your other strobes (in my case the one 420 flash on a stand) around for every new pose, re-metering the light, setting everything up, then shooting? That seems like a lot of time/work for one shot. A lot of standing around waiting for the photographer to set up for the people that are getting their picture taken. So with the Sekonic L-358, you say I can dial in each flash separate of the others, even when my 580 is using IR to trigger the 420? I was under the assumption that the 580 sends all its info to the 420 via that... Am I missing something (probably)? It tells me the ratio that I need or that I have? I'm guessing that I need to have a "proper exposure" correct? So this will tell me how much flash I need for the ambient light, to properly calibrate the flash output power (FEC)? So I normally shoot on Av (Aperture Priority on Canon), so would it then tell me the "proper" shutter speed? Or should I be shooting on Tv (Shutter Speed Priority) and letting the light meter tell me what aperture to use?

Incident - this is the light that is incident to your subject - the light that hits your subject and is reflected. The meter measures the light that hits your subject - it doesn't care about how much of that is reflected or in which direction.

Whenever I move a pose - I was referring to small groups where the light might need to be changed, the odds are about even that I'll be moving lights. When you move lights, the odds are better than even that the power output of at least one of them will need to be changed.

From the reading I've done, I think, with the 580 as the master, all you need to do is dial in the flash ratios. The camera and flashes talk to each other and determine how much power they each need to deliver to the subject. This will, necessarily, be a bit of a trial and error process as the flashes/camera work from the amount of light reflected from the subject. This can cause the equipment to over-expose a dark subject and under-expose a light subject.

When shooting E-TTL, inside, I have found the best way to shoot is to set the camera to manual mode, set the ISO, aperture, and shutter speed I want and then shoot a few test shots while dialing in the FEC to get the exposure "right". If you have the camera in, for example, Av mode, the camera will meter the ambient (before triggering the flash) and set the shutter speed for the aperture/ISO combination - without taking the contribution from the flash(es) into consideration - results is some very slow shutter speeds.

The flash bracket and connecting cord I linked to would fulfill that... By light modifier, that would be the SoftBox that I linked to correct? The "Better Bounce Card" seems to be a white piece of paper folded around the flash head (pointed upwards) rubber banded (or another type of attachment) to the base of the flash head...correct? So you shoot the camera in Full manual mode and flash on E-TTL? As I entirely know how to use full manual mode, I prefer Av as my lighting situations and what not tend to change, I guess...I dunno... I shot full manual for awhile, and sometimes just forgot that I was on manual and forgot to adjust stuff, so I'd have way over or under exposed pictures. Is Av appropriate for this or should I start doing full manual again?

Yes, that's what a BBC is. Works very well for situations other than portraits (and even then it can serve it's purpose quite well). As for the manual/Av/Tv discussion, see my previous paragraph. Basically, the Canon cameras are quite stupid (or I am - the jury is still out on that one :wink) when it comes to using flash in a dark environment.

So beings I don't know how to use full manual yet, nor do I really do much portraiture, I should still have the bracket and shoot E-TTL as my current list of stuff will alot me to do...right?Again, the need to use a bracket is driven by the situation. If you have the flash on camera, then a bracket is a good idea. If the flash is not in full manual mode (and you can do that when the flash is connected to the camera), then you are shooting E-TTL.

So the IR trigger built into the 580 is not a recommended way to trigger the off-camera flash (420)?
Sorry, I missed, in previous posts, that you had this flash combination and just added to the confusion. As for the question - inside, the IR is a great tool and works quite well as long as you have good line-of-sight between the various flashes. They can even work well around corners as long as the IR signals can bounce. Outdoors - results vary. Pathfinder has had remarkable success with this combination (or similar, using the ST-E2) and triggering the slave flashes. Others, not so much.

You use ISO 800 for wedding receptions? Because of the normally low light I'm guessing? I can't stand the noise, I try to stay at 400 or below...suitable?
I use 800 because, with proper exposure, the noise is not bothersome - especially by the time you get to prints. It's only when you zoom into 100% on a computer monitor that the ISO 800 noise becomes an issue. Suitable - if you have the power to spare. Remember, the difference between ISO 400 and ISO 800 is one stop - that's double the amount of light/power. If you have the power - great. But, I have found this to be an unsupportable drain on batteries. If I'm shooting a reception and using my AB800 strobes (and I do that most of the time), there are instances where the strobes can't re-power fast enough to keep up .... especially if I have a second photog working with me.
I know about x-sync speed, but even with manual flash, as in High-Speed sync, I can't user higher than 1/250th? Sometimes, as in bright daylight, that's just not enough, especially with an f/5.6 ish or lower... I shot a wedding in summer last year, where at f/4, 1/500th wasn't even enough at ISO 100... So how could I obtain a faster shutter speed over my x-sync speed?
I believe (but I'm not sure) that HSS is a function provided by E-TTL. If that's true, then manual flash and E-TTL are mutually exclusive, in which case you are limited to the x-sync. To my knowledge the only way to get effective flash at shutter speeds greater than 1/250 with a 50D is with HSS. This requires (again, I think) E-TTL.

PJ work? So pretty much everything we've been talking about to use my 580 and 420, throw away for what I'm wanting to do? Invest in studio lighting and strobes? Haul all that around to weddings and such and set up, re-configure for every shot?
PJ Work - PhotoJournalism. This the way a lot of weddings,etc are handled now. You must be mobile for that. So, doing PJ work is where the 580 (on-camera) shines. In that case, the bracket is a requirement.

Portraits - again, like I said in my first post in this thread - you control everything, include the pace. And, moving the lights from one pose to another is a distinct possibility.

[Candid Arts]

Since you have the 580 and the 420, you are set for studio if you want to use E-TTL and don't mind having the 580 on your camera. The 580, mounted on your camera (with a bracket) will by your master and will, via the IR communications to the 420, both set and trigger the 420. No need for RF triggers or cables or anything else. It's when the 580 is NOT on the camera that you are "forced" to go full manual.
I don't mind having the 580 on camera (or on a bracket).

A softbox is a modifier and does much the same job as the shoot through umby.
Ok. Thanks.

Incident - this is the light that is incident to your subject - the light that hits your subject and is reflected. The meter measures the light that hits your subject - it doesn't care about how much of that is reflected or in which direction.
Gotchya. Thanks.

Whenever I move a pose - I was referring to small groups where the light might need to be changed, the odds are about even that I'll be moving lights. When you move lights, the odds are better than even that the power output of at least one of them will need to be changed.
Figured that much, I guess I just gotta practice...

From the reading I've done, I think, with the 580 as the master, all you need to do is dial in the flash ratios. The camera and flashes talk to each other and determine how much power they each need to deliver to the subject. This will, necessarily, be a bit of a trial and error process as the flashes/camera work from the amount of light reflected from the subject. This can cause the equipment to over-expose a dark subject and under-expose a light subject.
Yes this is true, and makes sense. So to fix the under/over expose, the light meter will do that?

When shooting E-TTL, inside, I have found the best way to shoot is to set the camera to manual mode, set the ISO, aperture, and shutter speed I want and then shoot a few test shots while dialing in the FEC to get the exposure "right". If you have the camera in, for example, Av mode, the camera will meter the ambient (before triggering the flash) and set the shutter speed for the aperture/ISO combination - without taking the contribution from the flash(es) into consideration - results is some very slow shutter speeds.
Inside that makes sense, seems more sensible. Outside on the other hand it would seem to change too much as clouds pass, shadow's are cast, sun is setting, etc...

Yes, that's what a BBC is. Works very well for situations other than portraits (and even then it can serve it's purpose quite well). As for the manual/Av/Tv discussion, see my previous paragraph. Basically, the Canon cameras are quite stupid (or I am - the jury is still out on that one :wink) when it comes to using flash in a dark environment.
So basically I should just go back to using full manual mode...? How do I meter for the flash though when it only fires when I fire it?

Again, the need to use a bracket is driven by the situation. If you have the flash on camera, then a bracket is a good idea. If the flash is not in full manual mode (and you can do that when the flash is connected to the camera), then you are shooting E-TTL.
It will most likely be on camera, unless for whatever reason I just hand hold it and use the cord. But at that point I have the 420 to move around to do my side lighting etc...

Sorry, I missed, in previous posts, that you had this flash combination and just added to the confusion. As for the question - inside, the IR is a great tool and works quite well as long as you have good line-of-sight between the various flashes. They can even work well around corners as long as the IR signals can bounce. Outdoors - results vary. Pathfinder has had remarkable success with this combination (or similar, using the ST-E2) and triggering the slave flashes. Others, not so much.
So I should just try it out. Another thing I read while reading my manual on the 580 in the wireless section, was that if the slave flash is facing away from master flash and line of sight cannot be obtained, then use the swivel and/or articulating head to turn the IR receiver towards the 580 while the flash head is still pointed in the direction you want. That work?

I use 800 because, with proper exposure, the noise is not bothersome - especially by the time you get to prints. It's only when you zoom into 100% on a computer monitor that the ISO 800 noise becomes an issue. Suitable - if you have the power to spare. Remember, the difference between ISO 400 and ISO 800 is one stop - that's double the amount of light/power. If you have the power - great. But, I have found this to be an unsupportable drain on batteries. If I'm shooting a reception and using my AB800 strobes (and I do that most of the time), there are instances where the strobes can't re-power fast enough to keep up .... especially if I have a second photog working with me.
I suppose this has where my problem has been, in which I posted in another thread somewhere... My photos tend to be a little underexposed. Even when my Exposure Comp is set to 0 ev. Haven't yet figured out why. So bringing the exposure back up, in combination with a higher ISO, produces horrible results (on screen, haven't test printed). The extra light power it takes though is something I hadn't thought of. I suppose I just need to work on my exposure, figure out why it underexposes stuff. (what metering mode do you use normally for weddings? Spot? the weddings I've done thus far have been evaluative, maybe a reason why?)

I believe (but I'm not sure) that HSS is a function provided by E-TTL. If that's true, then manual flash and E-TTL are mutually exclusive, in which case you are limited to the x-sync. To my knowledge the only way to get effective flash at shutter speeds greater than 1/250 with a 50D is with HSS. This requires (again, I think) E-TTL.
So if I need a shallow DOF, am in bright light, and using a flash for like fill or something, I would have to use E-TTL on HSS... Got it.

PJ Work - PhotoJournalism. This the way a lot of weddings,etc are handled now. You must be mobile for that. So, doing PJ work is where the 580 (on-camera) shines. In that case, the bracket is a requirement.
Perfect. Thanks.

Portraits - again, like I said in my first post in this thread - you control everything, include the pace. And, moving the lights from one pose to another is a distinct possibility.
By portraits I'm guessing that's like studio type stuff. Which I currently do none of. So the set-up previously mentioned in post 47 should be about perfect for what I'm doing?

[Art Scott]

Candid Arts.......go spend a little bit of time over at Strobist.com ...... there you will find out just what you can actually do with shoe mount strobes.......in fact I guarantee that if you learn your equipment you will have NO need for expensive studio strobes (yes I have 5 studio strobes).....I prefer the use of Vivatar 285HV's or Sunpak622 over studio lighting when going on location..........
If you are willing to actually learn how to use your speedlights you can actually make any type of modifier you could need for studio work.............
Huge studio lights and power packs present an image to a client......the only thing a studio strobe has over a shoe or handle mount flash unit is the modeling light......when running of a batter power pack that same studio strobes modeling light will not function or it will drain you power source very quickly.........

A book you could also use is here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584282304/ref=s9_sdps_c2_s1_p14_t1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0ZK0X3BWMP90ANZ8Y04T&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846) ........

[Nikolai]

Scott,
with all due respect, softbox has a much better directional light control compared to an umbrella, let alone the fact you can (and in most cases shoud) put a grid (egg-crate) on it, which you simply can never do with an umbrella.

CA: I'm not saying you can't do portrait photography with speedlites. What I am saying is: if the portrait photography is the primary direction of your future photography, it's a very ineffective (and in my personal book, plain wrong) way of getting there.

As I mentioned several times already, few years ago Shay advised me into getting manually controllable lights and pospone getting better camera (I was shooting Sony 828 at the time:-). I followed his advice and never regretted it. The camera has long gone, I have replaced five more dslr bodies since, but I'm still using those lights:-)

[Art Scott]

Scott,
with all due respect, softbox has a much better directional light control compared to an umbrella, let alone the fact you can (and in most cases shoud) put a grid (egg-crate) on it, which you simply can never do with an umbrella.

CA: I'm not saying you can't do portrait photography with speedlites. What I am saying is: if the portrait photography is the primary direction of your future photography, it's a very ineffective (and in my personal book, plain wrong) way of getting there.

As I mentioned several times already, few years ago Shay advised me into getting manually controllable lights and pospone getting better camera (I was shooting Sony 828 at the time:-). I followed his advice and never regretted it. The camera has long gone, I have replaced five more dslr bodies since, but I'm still using those lights:-)

Nikolai...with all due respect....the one thing you're over looking is that shoe mount and handle mount strobes are manually controllable.....completely from full to 1/16 or 1/32nd power.......you may need more of them to get to 3200 ws but in portrait work you seldom need more than a GN of 100 in reality......I only use tons of flash power at a wedding.....in portrait work everything is powered down to get the desired effect(s) or powered up for high key but I seldom have a use for high key in this part of the midwest..............

[Candid Arts]

So I went over to my local camera shop to look at some of the products first hand and see how they feel and work. I talked to a couple different employees and actually got to play with some stuff, so that was good.

One of the employees recommended the Gary Fong Lightsphere over the softbox. What do you guy's think about the lightsphere vs a bounce card I can make for like $5?

It sounds like the light meter is a definite. I actually got to see one, see how it works, how to use it, etc... So that was good. Just spendy...:-/

First guy I talked to said NO WAY on a flash bracket. Heavy, and he'd just rather hand hold the flash where he wants it. Thoughts? The second guy I talked to said definitely use a flash bracket for weddings and the like... Hmmm...

The first guy also told me that the IR signal from the 580 to trigger the 420 WILL NOT work in bright sunlight. Thoughts? He suggested something like the Pocket Wizard. Which is beneficial not only because it's RF versus IR, but it can travel up to 1600', and you can remotely pop the flashes for your light meter to read, which is nice. But no way I can afford a Pocket Wizard set up right now. Uhmmm...I think that's about it for right now, although I'm sure in 5 minutes I'll have more. Haha.

[Candid Arts]

Candid Arts.......go spend a little bit of time over at Strobist.com ...... there you will find out just what you can actually do with shoe mount strobes.......in fact I guarantee that if you learn your equipment you will have NO need for expensive studio strobes (yes I have 5 studio strobes).....I prefer the use of Vivatar 285HV's or Sunpak622 over studio lighting when going on location..........
If you are willing to actually learn how to use your speedlights you can actually make any type of modifier you could need for studio work.............
Huge studio lights and power packs present an image to a client......the only thing a studio strobe has over a shoe or handle mount flash unit is the modeling light......when running of a batter power pack that same studio strobes modeling light will not function or it will drain you power source very quickly.........

A book you could also use is here (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584282304/ref=s9_sdps_c2_s1_p14_t1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0ZK0X3BWMP90ANZ8Y04T&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846) ........

Thanks for the tips, I'll try and get some time to go over there.

As for the recent posts by you and Nikolai, it seems your focus is on portrait photography. As some day I might be doing that, in a studio type setting, right now I'm just worried about weddings. Outdoor ceremonies, indoor receptions, maybe even indoor ceremonies... So how does this all apply to ONLY the wedding side of portraiture?

[Scott_Quier]

Scott,
with all due respect, softbox has a much better directional light control compared to an umbrella, let alone the fact you can (and in most cases shoud) put a grid (egg-crate) on it, which you simply can never do with an umbrella.
Agreed.

[Scott_Quier]

Yes this is true, and makes sense. So to fix the under/over expose, the light meter will do that?

Not if you are shooting E-TTL. Only trial and error (and experience) with your equipment.

Inside that makes sense, seems more sensible. Outside on the other hand it would seem to change too much as clouds pass, shadow's are cast, sun is setting, etc...Opinions differ. Try it. An ounce of "experiment" is worth a pound of "opinion."

So basically I should just go back to using full manual mode...? How do I meter for the flash though when it only fires when I fire it?
Shooting E-TTL, there is not metering (ala Sekonic L-358) of the flash. You can/should(?) meter the ambient incident and/or background but after that, it's all trial and error and chimping. Some will say outdoors that Av works well when the subject is backlit. I like to get a reading for the sky, use that in my manual settings and adjust the power of my flash for the foreground/subject. Again, opinions and methods differ. Experiment with your equipment and see what works for you.

So I should just try it out. Another thing I read while reading my manual on the 580 in the wireless section, was that if the slave flash is facing away from master flash and line of sight cannot be obtained, then use the swivel and/or articulating head to turn the IR receiver towards the 580 while the flash head is still pointed in the direction you want. That work?
Of course. Would Canon lie to you? Seriously, yes that is perfered practice - keep the two flashes facing each other to the extent possible. After that, you can bounce the IR signals.

I suppose this has where my problem has been, in which I posted in another thread somewhere... My photos tend to be a little underexposed. Even when my Exposure Comp is set to 0 ev. Haven't yet figured out why. So bringing the exposure back up, in combination with a higher ISO, produces horrible results (on screen, haven't test printed). The extra light power it takes though is something I hadn't thought of. I suppose I just need to work on my exposure, figure out why it underexposes stuff. (what metering mode do you use normally for weddings? Spot? the weddings I've done thus far have been evaluative, maybe a reason why?)
Again, I don't flash at weddings (or at least not indoors). Receptions - I use the evaluative. Any in-camera metering is only a best guess on the part of the camera anyway and the averaging seems to work best. If you spot meter and you happen to get the grooms tux - you have a hugely over-exposed shot. Like-wise - spotting off the bride's gown and you get a hugely under-exposed shot. The average seems to work out - on average. Then, chimp and adjust the FEC to taste.

By portraits I'm guessing that's like studio type stuff. Which I currently do none of. So the set-up previously mentioned in post 47 should be about perfect for what I'm doing?
Perfect - only you can decide that. And, that'll take time and experience with your equipment.

One of the employees recommended the Gary Fong Lightsphere over the softbox. What do you guy's think about the lightsphere vs a bounce card I can make for like $5?
Again - opinions vary on this as well. I have one and don't use it. It chews through batteries like they are free. On the other hand, if you have lots of close walls, it does produce a nice even light. Again, you already know what I use for an on-flash light modifier.

First guy I talked to said NO WAY on a flash bracket. Heavy, and he'd just rather hand hold the flash where he wants it. Thoughts? The second guy I talked to said definitely use a flash bracket for weddings and the like... Hmmm...
Again, opinion. The bracket will help you avoid the shadows seen in pictures in this thread (http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=120077).

The first guy also told me that the IR signal from the 580 to trigger the 420 WILL NOT work in bright sunlight. Thoughts? He suggested something like the Pocket Wizard. Which is beneficial not only because it's RF versus IR, but it can travel up to 1600', and you can remotely pop the flashes for your light meter to read, which is nice. But no way I can afford a Pocket Wizard set up right now. Uhmmm...I think that's about it for right now, although I'm sure in 5 minutes I'll have more. Haha.
Tell that to Pathfinder:deal As for the PW - yes that will work, but will limit you to 1/250 for a shutter speed.

[Nikolai]

So I went over to my local camera shop ....

I have only two things to say about his:

First: never take advice from people who are interested in selling you the very thing have questions about :deal

Second: see rule #1. :wink

HTH

[Qarik]

The vital diffderence between the sb600 and 800 to me is that the 800 can act as a master flash. But since you have ta d90, that can act as master with it's unboard flash. Get the sb600. Get the fong diffuser.

With these 2 and the 30mm 1.4, you are well on your way. You will see major leap and bounds impriovement in your portraits/peoiple photogrpshy with these simple tools. The next step would be umbrella, soft boxes, refelctors,etc but that is another quantum leap in expenditures.

[Candid Arts]

I have only two things to say about his:

First: never take advice from people who are interested in selling you the very thing have questions about :deal

Second: see rule #1. :wink

HTH

The first guy was actually telling me NOT to buy the flash bracket...:scratch

But I know what you mean, and that is generally how it is.

Rule number 2 though I entirely agree with...it always happens that way. Not so much number 1, but most certainly #2...

[Nikolai]

The first guy was actually telling me NOT to buy the flash bracket...:scratch

But I know what you mean, and that is generally how it is.

Rule number 2 though I entirely agree with...it always happens that way. Not so much number 1, but most certainly #2...

I still would like to make my primary point very clear: studio portraiture gear (strobes, softboxes, ligthstands, lightmeter, full manual, etc) and event/pj photography gear (bracket, speedlite, mini-diffuser/reflector, xTTL and a lot of auto modes) have very little in common. Techniques are often quite different, too: in studio, you build the shot; in PJ, you hunt for it.

[Dooginfif20]

Huh? Sb600/800 D90? I have a 580 EX II and 420 EX, and a canon 50D, and a 50mm 1.4. Did you post in the wrong thread?

But it's all relative. You prefer the fong diffuser as well?

He was referring to me the one who started this post and then had someone take it over with their questions

[Dooginfif20]

The vital diffderence between the sb600 and 800 to me is that the 800 can act as a master flash. But since you have ta d90, that can act as master with it's unboard flash. Get the sb600. Get the fong diffuser.

With these 2 and the 30mm 1.4, you are well on your way. You will see major leap and bounds impriovement in your portraits/peoiple photogrpshy with these simple tools. The next step would be umbrella, soft boxes, refelctors,etc but that is another quantum leap in expenditures.

Thanks for your response! I have contacted some local photographers to see if I could get some shadow time and see how to do it in person. I have really been looking at the SB-600 and then if I want to later I can upgrade to the SB-800 or 900 and use the 600 and a slave. Now I cant wait to start doing some more shooting!

[Candid Arts]

I still would like to make my primary point very clear: studio portraiture gear (strobes, softboxes, ligthstands, lightmeter, full manual, etc) and event/pj photography gear (bracket, speedlite, mini-diffuser/reflector, xTTL and a lot of auto modes) have very little in common. Techniques are often quite different, too: in studio, you build the shot; in PJ, you hunt for it.

Point taken. It sounds like for what I'm wanting to do, I'm on the right track. Thanks Nikolai.:clap

[Nikolai]

Point taken. It sounds like for what I'm wanting to do, I'm on the right track. Thanks Nikolai.:clap"we're here to help" :wink :lust

[Candid Arts]

"we're here to help" :wink :lust

Awww...Thanks...

Oh and :bow

[Candid Arts]

So I actually remembered that I can borrow stuff from my school for free. So I borrowed a L-358 light meter for the weekend. In playing around with it, I realized that I have entirely no clue how to use it. I put it in the light, get a reading. Take a test shot with the camera's metering system, then take a shot from what the L-358 told me to do. It was entirely way blown out... Pretty much no matter the lighting (I have two lamps with an umbrella on each in my dining room) it's saying I need a ridiculously slow shutter speed even at a f/2.8 or f/4. Which is blowing everything out. I need to find a manual online somewhere I think and do some reading because I think I'm using it wrong...I dunno.

[Scott_Quier]

So I actually remembered that I can borrow stuff from my school for free. So I borrowed a L-358 light meter for the weekend. In playing around with it, I realized that I have entirely no clue how to use it. I put it in the light, get a reading. Take a test shot with the camera's metering system, then take a shot from what the L-358 told me to do. It was entirely way blown out... Pretty much no matter the lighting (I have two lamps with an umbrella on each in my dining room) it's saying I need a ridiculously slow shutter speed even at a f/2.8 or f/4. Which is blowing everything out. I need to find a manual online somewhere I think and do some reading because I think I'm using it wrong...I dunno.
Here's the Sekonic User's Manual (http://www.mamiya.nl/client/mamiya/uploads/downloads/l-358.pdf). That should give you a start.