Rant: Punks & Gear don't mix!

[NHBubba]

I posted this on another (mostly social) forum I frequent. I felt the need to rant and that source is usually pretty good for letting me get it off my chest. However it is photo related, so I wondered what comments folks here might have. It's long, but hopefully permissible...

So the weather's been pretty bad around here lately. Non-stop rain and mist, cloudy and just plane sucky. It has seriously rained pretty much the entire weekend for the last 4-5 weekends straight. In that time I've aquired some new photo toys. Well today (a Friday) the weather isn't half bad, overcast, but relatively dry. The reports for the weekend don't look good, and I've been working too hard lately anyhow. So I brought the camera to work and ducked out to spend my lunch hour playing. The plan for the day was to venture a couple blocks over to a public park area next to a small pond. Now my office isn't in the best of neighborhoods. We have vandalism problems like you wouldn't believe. Although fortunately we don't have much in the line of breakins. (I suspect it's because no one would believe we have a high-tech company in a dumpy looking building like we do!)

At any rate, I'm wandering around the edge of this pond photographing the couple ducks and geese and looking for some frogs near the weeds to try my spiffy new extension rings on. I've got the extension rings mounted on my Canon 70-200/4 L. This is an L lens, painted the distinctive white color, and is fairly large, especially w/ the extension rings and lens hood mounted. The thing is pretty massive and looks pretty impressive. However I'm trying to keep a low profile.

I get half way around the pond when these three teenagers spot me. One starts hollering at me from 50 or so yards:

"Hey, what are you doing?"
"Hey, are you some sort of wild life expert?"
"Dude, do you see any snakes or anything over there?"
"Hey, are you dumb or something? I'm talking to you!"
..His comments got less 'friendly' from there!

I ignore the kid and keep to myself. I was going to do a full lap around the pond but decided to reverse my path as he got mouthier.

Fast farward a few minutes. I'm mucking w/ trying to manual focus some interesting little buds on a tree on the far side of the ponds. Suddenly these punks are coming up on me. They kind of caught me off guard as I had my attention elsewhere. The loudmouth of the group comes right up to me and confronts me: "Hey, I was talking to you over there! What's your problem, why can't you answer me?"

I give the kid a discusted look and inform him I'm not there to chit chat and would prefer he just leave me alone, in roughly as many words. I then return to what I was doing. He looks me up and down and take a long hard look at my equipment.. Sudenly at that moment I felt a little uneasy having a $700 retail lens atached to my neck! He made a motion at me.. but then turned and walked off w/ his friends. One turns to him and says "Ha! He straight up told your ass!" The banter continues as they disapear from sight..

It occured to me that this punk could.. or might have decided to try to rip me off. Nashua isn't a scene from a gangster-rap video, but it isn't Normal Rockwell-ville either. I jockey a mouse for a living, and am proportionately soft around the edges. Not that I'm a small guy either. But I started wondering.. what if I were put into a position where I had to defend my person or property.. against a punk teenager?! What are my rights.. can I legally hit the kid? (A 70-200/4 w/ body and grip would probably leave a pretty good mark!) What are the legal implications? Do I basically hand over the equipment and then head for the nearest phone to get the authorities involved? ... Gee, haven't felt this way since what? 8th grade on the playground?!

In all my time thwacking around in the woods I've never had a problem like this. All the hikers, sportsmen and folks I've run into have merely commented on the equipment, what I'm shooting, or the weather.. but it seems urban parks aren't the same situation!

[gus]

Me ? I would drop the ring leader in mid conversation when he wasnt ready for it & his mates will quickly go to water without a leader.

If cops get involved...im sure they would know whom started the trouble & that you were in fear & defended yourself as they went for you.

But thats me...

[Steve Cavigliano]

Me ? I would drop the ring leader in mid conversation when he wasnt ready for it & his mates will quickly go to water without a leader.

If cops get involved...im sure they would know whom started the trouble & that you were in fear & defended yourself as they went for you.

But thats me...
Excellent advice Gus :thumb :thumb The only problem is if he's under 18 years old. Then, pretty much no matter what (unless you can prove he was attacking you- and it would probably be 4 against one swearing he didn't), you get to go to jail for 2-5 :huh

I think it's best to walk away, like NH did. If it gets to the point where you can't. Then, by all means, forget how much that lens cost (it was likely cheaper than new teeth) and use it as a weapon. I'd have no issue denting a punk's skull with my Bigma :D A tripod, or monopod, also makes a nice defensive weapon.

Personally, I've seldomed been hassled. One advantage of being relatively large and extremely ugly, I guess.....lol I never look for trouble. In fact, I go out of my way to talk to others (just ask Ian or Andy....lol). But, if trouble comes looking for me, I'll give as good as I get :wink

Again, congrats NH on walking away and doing the smart thing :thumb But, if I were you, I'd be planning on what your reaction will be next time. It never hurts to be prepared :D


Steve

[Gator]

It just blows my mind that adults have to be concerned with what a teenager may do to them. I shoot alone much of the time, and I don't much worry about confrontations. But I do get uncomfortable when there are mouthy, rude, disrespectful teenagers or young adults in a group that approach me too quickly.

They aren't so bold when they are alone but, group them up and it can be an explosive situation.

Says a lot about what our society has turned into. Thankfully you were not harmed, but I would react just as 'Gus points out.

[gus]

I realise the age bit steve but if they are old enough to dance then they have to pay the band. I tend to not think in this type of situation but react (it would no doubt get me into trouble legally). we have have all seen 15 year olds that are 6 foot & 200 pounds.

Humans can be just as pack animals in this situation...they often will gain strength by seeing a retreat... however im am bigger & uglier than even steve is & have never had that problem.

Glad you wernt hurt though.

Gus

[NHBubba]

Personally, I've seldomed been hassled. One advantage of being relatively large and extremely ugly, I guess.....lol :rofl Ha! I think that's what 'saved' me today too. Folks have to remind me periodically that I'm a fairly imposing guy, physically. And I imagine it gets worse when my feathers get russled, as w/ anyone.

Although at the rate I'm going I'm only getting softer around the edges as I age (if you know what I mean) and my 'toys' are only getting more and more expensive. So yeah, today's confrontation has definitely got me thinking.

I think I'd definitely have to have them make the first move. It is my understanding that if you hit someone first, regardless of age, then it's assult. If you hit second, or under circumstances where you can prove you were in danger, then it is legally self defense. The magic line in the sand just seems aweful mirky to me. Proving it is no doubt even more challanging. At any rate I'm sure it'd be good for a ride in a police cruiser. That's a big downer considering I was just out to enjoy my lunch break!
It just blows my mind that adults have to be concerned with what a teenager may do to them. I shoot alone much of the time, and I don't much worry about confrontations. But I do get uncomfortable when there are mouthy, rude, disrespectful teenagers or young adults in a group that approach me too quickly.

Says a lot about what our society has turned into. Thankfully you were not harmed, but I would react just as 'Gus points out.You can say that again. I never ever would have dreamed of mouthing off to an adult like this kid did today at his age (had to be 16-17). Southern NH sure as heck has changed in the last 10+ years. My boss, a resident for 12 years now, seconds that opinion. He's counting the days to retirement.. me, guess it's time to pack it up and move a little bit further north!

[bkriete]

Walking away is always the smart thing to do. Hitting first, in America at least, will get you in more hot water than you can imagine. In a physical fight, there is no way you can win; either you get beat up or the other guy does and you get charged with assault and battery.

This is the sort of topic that came up all the time on some of the self-defense forums I used to frequent. My advice if you want some extra peace of mind, is to buy some pepper spray (you may need an FID) and keep it accessible in your camera bag or vest. It's certainly not the be-all, end-all of defensive weapons, but if you do use it on someone you will be answering a lot fewer questions than if you use a gun, knife, or other "weapon" (e.g., metal tripod).

[ian408]

Let's look at it a different way. What if you'd replied to the original
question? Would that have resulted in more questions or perhaps satisfied
his curiosity enough he might have wandered off on his own?

Mind you I'm not suggesting carelessness just suggesting a different
tactic. By responding, you now have the opportunity to size up the
situation and decide what your next course of action will be.

One thing that happens in groups (happens with LEOs too) is that one
of the group issues a challenge. If not responded to, the one is forced
to up the anty to avoid losing face with his mates.

If push comes to shove, I say what 'gus said. Let the guy pay the band.

Ian

[luckyrwe]

Lucky for me I am 6'4" and no one really bothers me. One time a guy was eyeing my Nikon 400/2.8 on an FE body, when he made a comment about "jacking the lens from me" I held it like a baseball bat. It I could not have it, no one could. Then I made a comment about hoping I got his picture in the background sometime that day so they can identify him after the lens eats his face. Thankfully he said he was kidding and moved on.

I do have pepper spray, I will dig it out for tomorrow's shoot. Got my 8GB CF card today too, woohoo! I will no doubt sell my 2GB cards and get another 8GB (I am planning on staying CONUS, or at least living my life that way).