PC / Mac

[gubbs]

The time has come to start thinking about a new home computer as mine is 5 years old and struggling. I use it mainly for photo's (storage & Post), music (storing/playing MP3's through my Hifi, burning stuff for the car etc), web browsing and the odd letter, etc.....
first question... what are the pros & cons of Mac's against PC's? and secondly what sort of minimum spec in either should I be looking at?

Cheers

Jon

[cletus]

The time has come to start thinking about a new home computer as mine is 5 years old and struggling. I use it mainly for photo's (storage & Post), music (storing/playing MP3's through my Hifi, burning stuff for the car etc), web browsing and the odd letter, etc.....
first question... what are the pros & cons of Mac's against PC's? and secondly what sort of minimum spec in either should I be looking at?

Cheers

Jon Ahhh, a question for the ages. One of the true classics, right up there with



Canon or Nikon?
Film or digital?
Dave or Sammy?
Less filling or tastes great?
Although I'm a PC guy, for what you've described I'd say go with a Mac. I'll have to defer to someone else for the spec you would want in a Mac for photo work.

:lurk

[rutt]

I have a g4 powerbook 17 which I bought to run photoshop, mostly. For work, I run linux on a PC notebook. And yes, I get forced to deal with windows and have even used windows photoshop. So I have quite a bit of overall experience with this issue.

As a photographer, I really really wanted to love my mac, but:


Although the screen is big it isn't very high resolution. My PC notebook has WUXGA which is 1920x1200. The top of the line g4 17 inch powerbook is only 1440x900.
There seems to be a bug with mounting CF cards. Often this freezes my computer. It always takes a long time. This happens with both a PC Card reader and a Firewire reader. I corresponded with cmr164 who seemed to actually know somthing about this. (Charles, if you read this, pitch in.) Everyone else in the world claims it doesn't/can't happen.
Apples are slow compared to pcs. I know you will get all kinds of opinions on this. But it really isn't an opinion kind of thing. I know a lot about processors and belive me, it's true. The difference is minimized by some relative strengths in apple's packaging and sortware, but really it's stil there.
My powerbook isn't really that sturdy compared to my pc. It's really cool that it's so nice and silver and thin and all. But it keeps getting misaligned and then it won't close and stay closed and has to go to the apple store to be "readjusted".
The powerbook has limited battery life compared to the best available in the PC world. Many PCs allow you to remove the cd drive and replace with a second battery. This can be important if you want to bring the thing on a shoot.
On the other hand, the mac has a couple of advantages that are pretty meaningful:


Built in full sized firewire. This means it can power a firewire device. My PC (and I think most notebooks) have the smaller kind of plug that can access, but not power. There are hacks for solving this, but they are not great.
Photoshop for mac is better than same for pc, IMHO. There is at least one objective way in which this is true. Photoshop CS needs activation on pcs but not on macs. The activation thing is bound to be trouble at some point.
If you want iPhoto, your decision is made for you. But if you are onboard with photoshop, you won't be using iPhoto very much.
If you are already comfortable with one platform and don't love computers, then stick with it.

[cmr164]

I have a g4 powerbook 17 which I bought to run photoshop, mostly. For work, I run linux on a PC notebook. And yes, I get forced to deal with windows and have even used windows photoshop. So I have quite a bit of overall experience with this issue.
Since I was invited to the party http://www.dgrin.com./images/icons/icon10.gif My background is that of an O/S developer/architect with experience in designing digital imaging systems and cameras as well as developing internals for multiple UNIX O/S's. The quick summary is to go for a Mac.

Now to address the issues below.

As a photographer, I really really wanted to love my mac, but:



Although the screen is big it isn't very high resolution. My PC notebook has WUXGA which is 1920x1200. The top of the line g4 17 inch powerbook is only 1440x900.
The resolution is less than a comparable Vaio but 1440x900 with a 17" screen gives nice sized pixels. The fact that the Powerbook's DVI port allows one to hook up a 2nd screen easily adds enough real estate for even the most demanding photoshop users. Apple's choice of side by side or mirrored displays is done very well indeed.



There seems to be a bug with mounting CF cards. Often this freezes my computer. It always takes a long time. This happens with both a PC Card reader and a Firewire reader. I corresponded with cmr164 who seemed to actually know somthing about this. (Charles, if you read this, pitch in.) Everyone else in the world claims it doesn't/can't happen.
This happened to me after CF cards had gotten corrupted and the system seemed to just hang with only the mouse active. Power cycling "seemed" to be indicated but was actually the wrong thing to do. What I found was that the system needed to just sit and spend time (a long time!) with the card once and then it would be ok. As a driver developer, I definitely regard this as a bug. It has not happened to me in the past 9 months or so. Possibly because of Apple updates to MacOSX 10.2.X or possibly because I am no longer sticking CF cards into whatever Windows system that was screwing with them.

Apples are slow compared to pcs. I know you will get all kinds of opinions on this. But it really isn't an opinion kind of thing. I know a lot about processors and belive me, it's true. The difference is minimized by some relative strengths in apple's packaging and sortware, but really it's stil there.
Yes and no. Software that is written for the Apple is faster. The benchmarks that used GCC showed that to be the case. The Wintel trick compiler that was tuned for the benchmarks was of course faster but an independent GCC showed the reality. That said, a lot of S/W was written for Wintel and the Apple version just crudely brought over and is slower on the Mac. PS on the Mac is as fast or faster and surprisingly so is Office and various games. With the G4 1ghz (and faster) and the G5 machines I do not think speed is a problem with any s/w.


My powerbook isn't really that sturdy compared to my pc. It's really cool that it's so nice and silver and thin and all. But it keeps getting misaligned and then it won't close and stay closed and has to go to the apple store to be "readjusted".
Here I just have to disagree. Aside from the stupid rubber feet, my PB17" is sturdier than the Sony Vaio and Toshiba notebooks that I had before it. And it has had a lot of trips on the back of my ZX6R.


The powerbook has limited battery life compared to the best available in the PC world. Many PCs allow you to remove the cd drive and replace with a second battery. This can be important if you want to bring the thing on a shoot.
On 3 separate occasions during the past year I have gotten more that 5 hours out of a single battery while working non-stop. Dim the screen, make sure that the built in Bluetooth and WiFi 11g are turned off and it is a slam dunk. (this was without the system ever being idle)

On the other hand, the mac has a couple of advantages that are pretty meaningful:


Built in full sized firewire. This means it can power a firewire device. My PC (and I think most notebooks) have the smaller kind of plug that can access, but not power. There are hacks for solving this, but they are not great.
And the Mac has both firewire 400 and firwire 800 as well as USB2.0


Photoshop for mac is better than same for pc, IMHO. There is at least one objective way in which this is true. Photoshop CS needs activation on pcs but not on macs. The activation thing is bound to betrouble at some point.
Read the microsoft EULA and you will realise that you can never agree to its terms. Really read it sometime. The PS activation on Wintel is almost innocent compared to what you agree to just to run Windows. This area is a big big big plus for the Mac side.


If you want iPhoto, your decision is made for you. But if you are onboard with photoshop, you won't be using iPhoto very much.
If you are already comfortable with one platform and don't love computers, then stick with it.

I did not have an Apple system for +20 years, using various UNIX boxes and multiple windows versions in both English and Japanese. The Mac experience has been so good as to be astounding.

[pathfinder]

I have a g4 powerbook 17 which I bought to run photoshop, mostly. For work, I run linux on a PC notebook. And yes, I get forced to deal with windows and have even used windows photoshop. So I have quite a bit of overall experience with this issue.

As a photographer, I really really wanted to love my mac, but:


Although the screen is big it isn't very high resolution. My PC notebook has WUXGA which is 1920x1200. The top of the line g4 17 inch powerbook is only 1440x900.
There seems to be a bug with mounting CF cards. Often this freezes my computer. It always takes a long time. This happens with both a PC Card reader and a Firewire reader. I corresponded with cmr164 who seemed to actually know somthing about this. (Charles, if you read this, pitch in.) Everyone else in the world claims it doesn't/can't happen.
Apples are slow compared to pcs. I know you will get all kinds of opinions on this. But it really isn't an opinion kind of thing. I know a lot about processors and belive me, it's true. The difference is minimized by some relative strengths in apple's packaging and sortware, but really it's stil there.
My powerbook isn't really that sturdy compared to my pc. It's really cool that it's so nice and silver and thin and all. But it keeps getting misaligned and then it won't close and stay closed and has to go to the apple store to be "readjusted".
The powerbook has limited battery life compared to the best available in the PC world. Many PCs allow you to remove the cd drive and replace with a second battery. This can be important if you want to bring the thing on a shoot.
On the other hand, the mac has a couple of advantages that are pretty meaningful:


Built in full sized firewire. This means it can power a firewire device. My PC (and I think most notebooks) have the smaller kind of plug that can access, but not power. There are hacks for solving this, but they are not great.
Photoshop for mac is better than same for pc, IMHO. There is at least one objective way in which this is true. Photoshop CS needs activation on pcs but not on macs. The activation thing is bound to be trouble at some point.
If you want iPhoto, your decision is made for you. But if you are onboard with photoshop, you won't be using iPhoto very much.
If you are already comfortable with one platform and don't love computers, then stick with it.
I think this absolutely a great question - PC vs Mac for photographers. I have had such a belly full of the viruses, worms, security updates and reupdates from Microsoft that I have seriously thought of a G5 Mac as my next computer. And I am aware that that means I will have to REPURCHASE Photoshop because Adobe will not give me credit for having purchased PS 5.0, PS 6.0, PS 7.0 And last but not least PS CS for Windows.
So even tho I have used PS since 1999, I would be stuck with a NEW purchase if I were to decide to enter the MAC world. Mac fanatics all think their machines are so much faster and cooler than PCs. Interesting to hear that you are not convinced Rutt. I thought G5 Macs were particularly fast for PS. I currently run a P4 2.2Ghz with 1 Gb ram. Seems to work adequately, other than the continous aggravation of worms, viruses, security updates, et al. I thought maybe life would be simpler with a Mac. Now I ma not so convinced any longer.
As for the activation feature of PSCS ( In Windows ONLY no less!!!) - I have already had to call Adobe to have mine reactivated once in addition to the inital start up - I had simply upgraded the drivers for my ATI Radeon 9800. Not changed the card - simply upgraded the video drivers - and bang - PS would not work until reactivated. And then a few nights ago I saws the same dreaded screen again - that I needed to activate Photo shop - this while PS was open and I was working on an image - I lost the editing on the image I was working on and PS shut down. BUT - I just clicked th PS Ikon and PS loaded and ran perfectly without hesitation. But this learning experience of seeing PS shut down right in the middle of working with it because of "lack of activation verification" is downright bizarre and disturbing. Anyone else had this experience yet?

So I am left with no satisfaction it seems - unhappy in Windows but probably not likely to be completely satisfied in the MAc world either. Hmmmm.............. I don't think I would be happy with just GIMP tho...http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/sad.gif

[Baldy]

The Mac experience has been so good as to be astounding.I have a Mac 17" PowerBook and a Windows XP desktop. My desktop before XP was a Mac G3 running OS 9.

I switched to XP for a desktop because (a) I wasn't crazy about OS 9 and (b) there are a whole lot more games available for XP and my kids love to have LAN parties and play things like Battlefield 1942.

What's changed is OS X is astoundingly good. I like it so very much more than XP for so many reasons, not the least of which is I can just smile as everyone else is worried about viruses and security. The interface, the way Photoshop works, the bundled apps — they are superb. If it weren't for games, my next desktop would definitely be a Mac.

[rutt]

I did not have an Apple system for +20 years, using various UNIX boxes and multiple windows versions in both English and Japanese. The Mac experience has been so good as to be astounding.
This was the flame I was looking for. Now you really won't know what to do!

I really wish I could agree with Charles. It's what I wanted to be true when I bought my mac. I tried really hard.

I've also had a lot of this conversation with Charles in private. I do agree with his sentiments. But my experience as a photographer (as opposed to a computer geek, which I also am) hasn't been so great. What I wrote is true. I assume that what Charles wrote is also true. It just shows it's a complex world.

Charles, the benchmarks do speak for themselves. I use a lot of free software and compile with gcc. My mac is about equal to a 1.7 GHz x86. I think that's pretty impressive, but if you want to do some batch processing on a lot of photos, it's slow compared to a fast pc.

[rutt]

\
So I am left with no satisfaction it seems - unhappy in Windows but probably not likely to be completely satisfied in the MAc world either. Hmmmm.............. I don't think I would be happy with just GIMP tho...http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/sad.gif
I don't think you will ever be happy with your computer, which puts in the great majority of people. Only crazy people like Charles, Baldy, and myself have ever experienced moments of computer love (or had astonishingly good experiences with them.)

[rutt]

What's changed is OS X is astoundingly good. I like it so very much more than XP for so many reasons, not the least of which is I can just smile as everyone else is worried about viruses and security. The interface, the way Photoshop works, the bundled apps — they are superb. If it weren't for games, my next desktop would definitely be a Mac.
I'm like the only guy with a mac who doesn't just love it. So maybe that's what you should buy. But I can't really change my experience. The things I wrote are facts.

[pathfinder]

I'm like the only guy with a mac who doesn't just love it. So maybe that's what you should buy. But I can't really change my experience. The things I wrote are facts.
Now I am REALLY confused - Between CMR164 and Baldy on the one hand - and Rutt on the other - and juimping ship to the Mac is not a cheap thing to do - new box, more memory than standard 512kb, new software, two new lcds to match those on my wintel box desk top - this is a very expensive thing to entertain when I can get a new 3+Ghz wintel box for under $1k, probably 1/5th of what a similar equipped Mac with dual lcd monitors and software will cost. Macs may be nice, but are they really that much nicer?http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I guess I'll stick with the viruses and worms in the dungeon....http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/Wicked.gif

[patch29]

I switched to my first mac back in 97. I have no desire to return to a PC. They make me ill to look at. (I did see a hack to make XP look like OS X, that might work :rofl ). I realize I may not get the most speed out there, but I am happy with what I have. I currently use a 15" PB as my main machine and run a second monitor. I would love to buy a G5, but waiting for the price to drop or really waiting to see if they can cram one into a Powerbook. That would be sweet. Everything works well for me and I do not feel a software void, so I am not going to worry about it.

One of the best deals in a Mac right now is the new eMac if you do not have any computer gear (monitor). They just did a nice bump in speed, it has a built in 17" CRT, you can max out at 1gb of ram, add a 160 gb hard drive and it now comes with an 8x DVD burner. That is smoking fast (for less than $1500.00). I am tempted to get one just to burn DVD's faster and have a workstation to do basic stuff. For the average consumer who wants to surf the web, write a few papers, email, work on some photos, make your own home movies and burn them to DVD. I think the eMac is a very good deal. Not the coolest or fastest, but more than enough for most folks.

I really enjoy my Mac. I will buy another in the future. They are worth taking a look at. That said depending on what you do a MS XP machine equipped well will do everything a Mac will, maybe not as easily or some stuff might be easier. I won't be looking for a MS based machine any time soon. They would have to come out with something spectacular to make me switch.

There are some good comparison tests, PC vs Mac that can be found here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6451-6410) if you are most concerned about the numbers. I put a fair amount of value into how I work with the machine and I feel a Mac is easier to use.

[pathfinder]

I switched to my first mac back in 97. I have no desire to return to a PC. They make me ill to look at. (I did see a hack to make XP look like OS X, that might work :rofl ). I realize I may not get the most speed out there, but I am happy with what I have. I currently use a 15" PB as my main machine and run a second monitor. I would love to buy a G5, but waiting for the price to drop or really waiting to see if they can cram one into a Powerbook. That would be sweet. Everything works well for me and I do not feel a software void, so I am not going to worry about it.

One of the best deals in a Mac right now is the new eMac if you do not have any computer gear (monitor). They just did a nice bump in speed, it has a built in 17" CRT, you can max out at 1gb of ram, add a 160 gb hard drive and it now comes with an 8x DVD burner. That is smoking fast (for less than $1500.00). I am tempted to get one just to burn DVD's faster and have a workstation to do basic stuff. For the average consumer who wants to surf the web, write a few papers, email, work on some photos, make your own home movies and burn them to DVD. I think the eMac is a very good deal. Not the coolest or fastest, but more than enough for most folks.

I really enjoy my Mac. I will buy another in the future. They are worth taking a look at. That said depending on what you do a MS XP machine equipped well will do everything a Mac will, maybe not as easily or some stuff might be easier. I won't be looking for a MS based machine any time soon. They would have to come out with something spectacular to make me switch.

There are some good comparison tests, PC vs Mac that can be found here (http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6451-6410) if you are most concerned about the numbers. I put a fair amount of value into how I work with the machine and I feel a Mac is easier to use.

Much of my frustration with with Win XP boxes is that a brand new one off the show room floor will require 3-8 hours on line to get all the updates and security programs running - a virus detector like Norton, a Firewall like Zonealarm, a new better email client like Eudora. Then you get new stuff along the way - if you are on dial up, I have no idea how you would keep an XP box current. I speak as someone who has built several boxes as well as upgraded Gateways, Dell, and HPs. Hard drives, DR burners, DVV burners, Memory, vido cards - I upgraded and rebuilt them all - but I am just tired of being a maintenance man for a box. I just want a simple tool for working on photos and surfing the web now. The Thrill is gone is all.

I have reservations about doing photo editing with a laptop - Wintel or Apple. I have had several Wintel laptops over the years - my current one is a 2.8Ghz HP - but the screens are so sensitive to head position that I don't trust them for Photo editing. I think Z-Z said he has the same concerns and he uses Powerbooks I believe. I have my current laptop calibrated with Ez Color and their colorimeter - but still find it is not a consistent as my desktop with a good 19 Sharp LCD. Do you find that a Powerbook screen is reliable for image editing and color correction?

Maybe I am just grumpy today is allhttp://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/Laughing.gif

[patch29]

Do you find that a Powerbook screen is reliable for image editing and color correction?


Mine is pretty good, the newest ones are a little better, brighter and more contrasty. I can do a lot on the laptop and get images pretty close, but I still run a CRT off my laptop to do final corrections, with the PB it makes a very good two monitor setup, ready to go and easy to use.

Apple still issues updates, usually monthly for security and other updates in-between. It is very easy all apples software is usually updated via software update. It does the work in the background and then you have to restart, pretty simple.

[cmr164]

... I just want a simple tool for working on photos and surfing the web now. The Thrill is gone is all.
Sounds like you need a Mac


I have reservations about doing photo editing with a laptop - Wintel or Apple. I have had several Wintel laptops over the years - my current one is a 2.8Ghz HP - but the screens are so sensitive to head position that I don't trust them for Photo editing. I think Z-Z said he has the same concerns and he uses Powerbooks I believe. I have my current laptop calibrated with Ez Color and their colorimeter - but still find it is not a consistent as my desktop with a good 19 Sharp LCD. Do you find that a Powerbook screen is reliable for image editing and color correction?

Maybe I am just grumpy today is allhttp://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/Laughing.gif
"...reliable..." yes. Why don't you swing by your local Apple store and take a look. You don't have to buy anymore LCDs than you would if you buy a new wintel, so I don't see your $5k vs $1k analogy. When I moved, I got rid of 12 monitors ranging from 14"-21". I use 2 LCDs and a 17" monitor with a couple of kvm switches to give me a dual display Mac and heads for 8 other systems.

[wxwax]

Good discussion. Can't say I've regretted staying with a PC. I switched to Mozilla browsers to surf safely. I don't get attachments in my e-mail. So the virus/worm etc. threat feels lessened, although I do run three debug programs every night just in case. :D

I use the machine to edit in Photoshop CS, occasionally burn CDs and DVDs, surf, e-mail and infrequently, a Word document. It's a 1.6 Pentium, 1gb memory on XP, and it's been stable except for a couple of start-up hangups.

It's plenty fast for me in Photoshop: the only delays are when rendering some filter effects. I've added what feels like a lot of software, and also lots of USB external devices. Other than a slight issue with my printer, everything's run smoothly.

So my basic, uninformed user opinion is that my PC does everything that I want it to do, and I am in no way dissatisfied. At work the artists all work on Macs, and I see a reasonable amount of crashes and reboots. I always tell them that I heard the advantage of Macs was that they don't crash. And they laugh a knowing laugh.

:dunno

[gubbs]

Thanks for all the replies,

I was expecting the Mac to come out as a clear favourite and was initially surprised to see Cletus' "Nikon Vs Canon" analogy. I thought it would have been more like Ferrari Vs Fiat where one is obviously superior but at a price.

I was wrong regarding the price and the performance. Looking at the link from patch http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6451-6410 it appears that the Dell 450 has the upper hand, but what a price, £3400 for that spec (oh, that does include a 19" monitor) compared to £2800 for the G5 Dual and £2600 for the Dell 360.

The performance pretty much seems to match the price. Will this apply through the price range?

As far as useabilty is concerned, it looks like the Mac comes out on top, Most of Rutt's complaints seem to be applicable to a powerbook, but the replies prompt a few questions:-
Is the Mac OS more secure, are updates and virus' less of an issue?
I haven't got PS yet, what is the deal with the activation and why is it a problem on the PC?
I currently have a PC so therefore don't have any Mac software, how good is the software bundle, what will I need to cover the basics?

Thanks - Jon :confused

[cletus]

I haven't got PS yet, what is the deal with the activation and why is it a problem on the PC?
Thanks - Jon :confused
I think how it works is that after you install Photoshop CS you need to go online and register the software, and during the registration process, Adobe provides some sort of code that "activates" Photoshop. Without the activation code, I think PS will only run for 30 days or something.

I didn't have any trouble with it. Maybe some other folks have :dunno

As far as security goes, like waxy I've switched from Internet Explorer to Firefox for web browsing, and I'm using Thunderbird for e-mail. I'm also running Zone Alarm (a software firewall). With the Firefox-Thunderbird-Zone Alarm combo, I haven't even had a hint of trouble. On the other hand, back when I was running IE by itself, I had all kinds of problems.

I can't help on the software bundle question for the Mac. The last Mac I used was one of the original Macs (I think it had 512k of RAM).

[gypsy77360]

Bought an eMac 2 yrs ago , upped to 512ram , added iLife update , run PSE , never any problems , have over 1000 pics in iphoto, 1000 songs in iTunes , no virus , no spam , NO PROBLEM. Once you go Mac , you'll never go back.

[wxwax]

One other thing on PS activation... you can do it on the phone if you want. Takes longer, but that way they can't snoop in your computer, were they to be of a mind to do so. :wink

[Seamaiden]

My boyfriend, CompSci B.S., has been in this business for over 20 years as well. He started off a huge Mac fan, and at this point wouldn't even consider going back to them. He's a PC man all the way.

I've just ordered all the parts to build my youngest boy a pretty decent gaming machine, and, including a Prescott CPU with 1MB Cache 800MHZ fsb (I wish I had such a fast CPU!), Platinum SB sound card, a decent 19" 1920x1140 flatscreen CRT, we're still coming in under $1300 WITH shipping. Oh.. forgot the speaker system, too.. :wink
His machine is going to be significantly better than mine (Mom is green with envy, but the boy has earned it).

My own deal with Macs is this: I just couldn't sort the machine well enough to USE it.

[AlpineRaven]

I am using my 9th Macintosh here since 1996 (I'm a apple person since i was a kid since Macintosh 512) anyway I couldnt resist myself from reading about Apple/PC issues here.

I've noticed some problems with external media cards with USB/Firewire, with Firewire in OS9 crashes during copying files, OSX.3 (Panther) fixes the problem. Using USB 2.0 isn't available in OS9 but it is available in OSX.

So if you're using USB media, I recommend you to use OSX.3 or newer not under OSX.3 due updated for Firewire and USB 1.1 & 2.0 as I do not have any problems reading/writing media files.

Sorry guys i can't tell you more because I haven't yet bought USB Media Card reader to tell you the truth.
Cheers
Alpine

[JohnR]

My boyfriend, CompSci B.S., has been in this business for over 20 years as well. He started off a huge Mac fan, and at this point wouldn't even consider going back to them. He's a PC man all the way.
My own deal with Macs is this: I just couldn't sort the machine well enough to USE it.


What reasons did he have for not liking Apple? And what do you mean when you say "couldn't sort the machine well enough to USE it"? What does "sort" mean in this context???



Ok...here is my take:
I used to be a Windows user (not PC...as all computers are "personal computers") until I bought my first mac, a G3. Since then, it's been no looking back.

No more dealing with virus/worms/hacks. I don't even own any anti-virus software! Plus...here's a biggie..no blue screen of death!

I now own a dual 2ghz G5 with 2.5GB of ram. Photoshop CS runs fast!! Ease of use, stability and overall pleasure of working with OSX and my G5 makes me very happy. Crash? I haven't had a "crash"/kernel panic/freezeup in over a year....never with this G5. OSX 10.3.3 is by far more stable than OS9 would even dream!

I have a 512MB CF card and a Microtech card reader (USB 1) and have had absolutely no problems. No hanging, nothing. I think those stories of CF readers having problems was maybe limited to certain makes?

The default software that comes free with new macs are very nice and robust apps. iTunes is the best music player. iPhoto is decent, but I don't use it.

The initial cost of a Mac may seem to be higher but the cost of ownership is cheaper. Read this http://www.macvspc.info/ for some good reading.

here is my setup:
http://louisvilleky.smugmug.com/photos/2981161-M.jpg

[Seamaiden]

What reasons did he have for not liking Apple? And what do you mean when you say "couldn't sort the machine well enough to USE it"? What does "sort" mean in this context???
I honestly don't think I could give his reasons proper credit, he got pretty technical about Apple features I am simply not familiar with. "Sort" in this context means "figure". I had trouble with my son's (IIRC a G3 too?) from the get-go, could hardly accomplish a thing. Now, remember, I've been using computers for all of three years now. I have trouble learning new technology, but I've gone from a complete Windows idiot to building my own machine (just built a gaming box for my youngest boy today, ohmygod, I want that chassis!) and installing Linux.


Ok...here is my take:
I used to be a Windows user (not PC...as all computers are "personal computers") until I bought my first mac, a G3. Since then, it's been no looking back.
Cool. At least you're not like some folks who've never even tried something, but have to say something bad about it. (And, I do hope I've qualified my answers as someone who couldn't work the Apple well enough to really use it.)

No more dealing with virus/worms/hacks. I don't even own any anti-virus software! Plus...here's a biggie..no blue screen of death!
Well, see, I have the same thing, too. I don't have to buy Apple products, I can buy any PC device or hardware and pretty much use it. That being said, in order to be free of MS, I must keep up with some things, and have to look for my answers (RTFM?). Btw, you didn't happen to read that bit by Billy G. saying he envisions a future where our homes, cars, and just about every aspect of our lives will be run by MS products, did you? My b/f's first question was, "What if your house blue screens??" I laughed.

My only problem with Apple/Mac was simply that I found it very difficult to use. I won't say the problem doesn't lie with me, either.

[JohnR]

Sorry to hear that you had a hard time. I figured since my 75 year old dad can switch..anyone can :huh

[mercphoto]

Everyone has a different experience with computers. Like the one lady who's boyfriend, the computer pro who started in Macs and switched to PC's, I went the opposite direction.

I started working at Texas Instruments as an Applications Engineer for their PC chip sets, years back. Knew all the BIOS vendors by name, many of the customers, thought PC's were cool and Mac people were dellusional. Then I switched jobs to Motorola working design verfication on the first G4 processor and subsequent parts. I finally caved in to buy a 2nd generation iMac. I was sold and hooked. Now I"m on a 12" PowerBook.

I've discovered what is "cool" about a computer is not in building it, learning it, debugging it, or making it work. What is cool is having the machine always availble, always working, and able to do your chores.

[jimf]

I use PCs all the time ... ran NT, Win2K, and currently run XP on desktops and laptops. XP is actually pretty nice aside from the constant worry about viruses, malware, adware and the like. It's pretty stable and most stuff just works.

I also ran Linux, various versions, on desktops and laptops. Linux is really not there yet when it comes to photographic uses and on laptops various features will be balky if they work at all. Gimp works, but it's a pale shadow of Photoshop. I didn't realize quite how pale until I got Photoshop CS.

If you're looking for best bang for the buck you're going to have a hard time beating a PC with XP. The downside to that is that you're going to spend significantly more time doing system things than you would with any other system ... most particularly doing security patches, but with the cruft that is the Windows registry you can count on the occasional full reinstall. And God help you if one of the really nasty malware or spyware systems gets in there -- like CoolWeb. I spent 14 hours cleaning up an infested XP PC a few weeks ago.

I bought my wife a Ti Powerbook two and a half years ago as a way to stop having to spend significant parts of my free time doing IT support for her. Coming from PCs as she did there was definite adjustment time, and since I hadn't used a Mac since the SE was hot stuff there was a lot of adjustment for me, too. And OS X 10.0 was really weak in some areas (like printer support). And of course we had to track down a lot of applications and buy them all over again.

But, overall, the experience was hugely positive. I almost never have to do IT stuff for her. We haven't had to do a single reinstall, eradicate a single virus or any malware, and the system pretty much just keeps working. I liked her laptop so much that when my Linux laptop died I bought myself a 12" powerbook.

Now, many people will tell you that 12" is just not big enough, and we have one guy here saying that you can't trust laptop screens' accuracy. Both of those are pretty much true.

But nobody says you have to use the built-in LCD all the time. I plug it into a 17" 1280x1024 LCD when I want a big(ger), more accurate screen ... and still have the good battery life and great portability of the 12" versus a 15" or 17" model.

The big performance limiter is the internal drive. Add (and use) an external firewire drive and the system gets a lot snappier. I pretty much use the internal drive for holding apps and temporary copies of photographs.

Contrary to what some people have said or implied, PC laptop quality is not superior to Mac laptop quality in my experience. Build quality of the Macs is first rate, beating even the exceptional Sony Vaio and IBM Thinkpad lines to say nothing of the crappy Dell and HP notebooks. They're durable, well designed things. But, more importantly in my book, MacOS works a hell of a lot more cleanly on laptops than any Windows variant I've ever run (and that would be ... all of them).

If you want a big fast desktop I would seriously consider XP, despite its added IT costs. (And buy a hardware firewall and put it between the box and the net -- you absolutely need it.) But if you're looking at laptops I'd go Mac all the way, there's nothing better.

[wxwax]

Jim, what's an example of a hardware firewall?

[jimf]

Jim, what's an example of a hardware firewall?

Cable/DSL routers are pretty effective home firewalls, just make sure NAT (Network Address Translation) is turned on. Seeing as you can buy one for less than the price of personal firewall software (assuming you use Windows, everything else has that in the box) and get multiple computer capability to boot, it's hard for me not to recommend them.

[wxwax]

Thanks. I'm relying on the free version of Zone Alarm, and Mozilla's obscurity, to protect me.

[Seamaiden]

Routers, firewalls, LANs and WANs are my beau's specialty. NAT is better than nothing, but what you really need is a router that actually inspects all packets (stateful packet inspection). Netgear is what my folks and I have just gone with, as Linksys.. well, my descriptions of Linksys are a bit colorful and not appropriate.

NAT can easily be broken (I know this as someone spoofed our MAC address and targeted one of my boys' computers). NAT is not a true firewall, but SPI is.

[cmr164]

Routers, firewalls, LANs and WANs are my beau's specialty. NAT is better than nothing, but what you really need is a router that actually inspects all packets (stateful packet inspection). Netgear is what my folks and I have just gone with, as Linksys.. well, my descriptions of Linksys are a bit colorful and not appropriate.

NAT can easily be broken (I know this as someone spoofed our MAC address and targeted one of my boys' computers). NAT is not a true firewall, but SPI is.
Linksys has become one of the good guys by releasing their firmware source to the public and encouraging Linux/freeware flashes that offer full features.

http://www.sveasoft.com/modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=802

http://openwrt.ksilebo.net/

[gubbs]

Well, against the advice some of you gave, I went for a Windows PC. Should get it all fixed up tonight hopefully (late night very likely tonight I think) Although it seemed as though the Mac came out on top, the arguements weren't strong enough to justify the extra expense, (all new software) and the fact that I'm just used to Windows.

Thanks for all of advice, :thumb

[jimf]

Well, against the advice some of you gave, I went for a Windows PC.

You had good reasons for staying. Personally I prefer Windows on the desktop and MacOS on laptops (largely because the Apple laptops are so well made) but there sure is a big difference in the amount of time spent on stupid administration tasks on Windows versus MacOS.

You pay one way or you pay the other, TANSTAAFL.

[gubbs]

Just an update.
Had the new system for a week now, & I have to say how straightforward the setup was. Everything installed without a problem, Scanner, Printer, Camera, ADSL, software, etc.... The initial Windows updates took about 15 minutes and has updated once automatically during the week.
Can't seem to upload to smugmug through Mozilla or Firefox even after downloading the plug in from Sun though which is annoying. (i'll post a request for help with the details later).

Thought I'd keep my old system to back up to, and for the kids to use when "I"M BUSY!!" so bought a wireless router/firewall. This has been a nightmare to get going properly, the instructions tend to assume that the person reading them actually knows about networking (big mistake!!!!:rofl).
I have now got it working so that both systems can access the web through the adsl and both can see the others drives and printers etc... (Although last night I kept "IP address conflict messages" which knocked the new system off the network. I think I may have sorted this now, but I have absolutely no idea how)

I'm also in the dark about which security settings I should be using, any guidance would be apreciated... let me know if you need anymre detail.

Thanks
gubbs

[wxwax]

For Smugmug, using Mozilla firebird, I find the only option that works to upload photos is the last one on their list of options. It's labeled "Standard".

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/4986366-L.jpg

[Deborah Dee]

Hello!

My name is Deborah and I am new here. I am a MacHead although we do have a PC set up here in addition to 6 Macs. Ay, caramba! Thisi s a very interesting thread. Congrats on your all new PC it osunds like it is working out well for you, triffic. I work mostly on Mac and as for cameras I have just barely crossed over to the digital world myself about a year and a half ago after many many years in old style film. :D Actually this ws my question to the forum but being new and all I wasn't sure where to post it. I did some research online but so far no real answer. "Question: my borther is looking for the simplest digital camera in the world. What he means by that is little or no fussing with those scroll through menus. He has beginning stages of Alzheimer's on top of dyslexia and just cannot handle the confusion! W'eve tried looking at so-called children's cameras and point and shoot but many of those are confusing too. Does anybody know of a TRULY simple digital camera that Tom can use to take good digital pictures of landscapes, family, and frends when he goes out?" Then we could help him load the stuff and print it out. Anybody have any feedback?

Thanks!

Debs :rofl :thumb

[lynnma]

Hello!

My name is Deborah and I am new here. I am a MacHead although we do have a PC set up here in addition to 6 Macs. Ay, caramba! Thisi s a very interesting thread. Congrats on your all new PC it osunds like it is working out well for you, triffic. I work mostly on Mac and as for cameras I have just barely crossed over to the digital world myself about a year and a half ago after many many years in old style film. :D Actually this ws my question to the forum but being new and all I wasn't sure where to post it. I did some research online but so far no real answer. "Question: my borther is looking for the simplest digital camera in the world. What he means by that is little or no fussing with those scroll through menus. He has beginning stages of Alzheimer's on top of dyslexia and just cannot handle the confusion! W'eve tried looking at so-called children's cameras and point and shoot but many of those are confusing too. Does anybody know of a TRULY simple digital camera that Tom can use to take good digital pictures of landscapes, family, and frends when he goes out?" Then we could help him load the stuff and print it out. Anybody have any feedback?

Thanks!

Debs :rofl :thumb
Hi Deb, I can't answer your question but there will be experts here shortly who will be able to. Sorry about your brother thats really hard to deal with for everyone in a family.
Welcome to the forum, it's a truly great place to visit with loads of wonderful information and very very nice people.
Lynn:D

[gubbs]

For Smugmug, using Mozilla firebird, I find the only option that works to upload photos is the last one on their list of options. It's labeled "Standard".

http://wxwax.smugmug.com/photos/4986366-L.jpg
Sid, it does work on my old W98 PC, but not on this one (XP) I end up reverting back to ie to upload!

[wxwax]

Sid, it does work on my old W98 PC, but not on this one (XP) I end up reverting back to ie to upload!

How odd. So on the same machine, IE works but Mozilla doesn't? I wonder if this has something to do with the Java stuff that you have to download and install separately for Mozilla (at least, I had to with Firebird. Pain in the padded part that's found below the waist and above the thighs.)

[wxwax]

Hello!

"Question: my borther is looking for the simplest digital camera in the world.

Hi Debs. Any point and shoot camera, when left on its automatic setting, should work fine. As long as no-one moves it off the Auto setting, it will do all the work for you. Really clean and simple.

Kodak, Nikon and Canon all make good versions of simple point-and-shoot cameras.

Assuming you agree, then the only issue is cost. I'm kinda partial to Canon, and think the A-series (A60, A70, A80) or the S-series (S400, S410, S500) are nice point-and-shoot cameras. But you can certainly spend a lot less than that on, say, a Kodak and be very pleased with the results.

The key is to not worry about the extra features on the camera - just don't use them!

Hope this helps.

[gubbs]

How odd. So on the same machine, IE works but Mozilla doesn't? I wonder if this has something to do with the Java stuff that you have to download and install separately for Mozilla (at least, I had to with Firebird. Pain in the padded part that's found below the waist and above the thighs.)
On my windows 98 PC
IE works on option 1 Firefox works on option 4

On my work windows 98SE PC and Home XP PC
Firefox only works on option 5 IE on 1

[rutt]

On my windows 98 PC
IE works on option 1 Firefox works on option 4

On my work windows 98SE PC and Home XP PC
Firefox only works on option 5 IE on 1
I've had good experiences with mail to help@smugmug.com on this sort of thing. They do want to know if these things don't work. They helped me with linux (a little grudgingly); I'm sure they care a lot about XP.

[gubbs]

Thanks Rutt, I'll do that..... spent too much time on the PC and not enough with camera lately

[wxwax]

Home XP PC
Firefox only works on option 5

Ah, OK, we're in the same boat, then. :nod

[FreeUps]

I didnt really take the time to catch the other replys to your question gubbs, but for what you are doing, I'de would absolutely say go with a mac. For multimedia convenience, they are unbeatable. I still use a pc simply for the fact that there are a few programs out there that i still cant find for osx, but besides that, the mac performance is cunning. You can organize your media like you never thought possible. I used to be a "PC to the death" type of person, but was then required to get a mac for video editing (final cut pro). I find that I very very rarely use my pc for anything else if the task can be done on my mac (99% of the time it can). I'm telling you, youll never go back to pc again. One suggestion though, I wouldn't go with the apple "i" series: Imac, Ibook etc... They are impossible to upgrade and your pretty much stuck with an outdated system a year from now. I got myself a 17 inch powerbook and the video editing capabilities (Nothing takes more memory than editing) are uncanny. Unless you can find an excuse like "I cant get this program for my mac" then you really have no excuse. Scrape together 3 gs and go get yourself a powerbook! Good luck.

[pathfinder]

After a long period of thought and consideration of the Mac versus Win XP question, I have gone and done the unthinkable - I am about to enter the Mac world, despite Rutt's warnings. :D

I expect delivery in the next few weeks and after I get it all assembled I will report on the experience. The continued onslaught of security flaws in MS WIN XP pushed me over the edge. :scratch

[dkapp]

After a long period of thought and consideration of the Mac versus Win XP question, I have gone and done the unthinkable - I am about to enter the Mac world, despite Rutt's warnings. :D

I expect delivery in the next few weeks and after I get it all assembled I will report on the experience. The continued onslaught of security flaws in MS WIN XP pushed me over the edge. :scratch

Great news! What mac did you get?

If you need any help, don't be afraid to ask. There are actually a lot of us mac users out there :)

Dave

[DavidTO]

After a long period of thought and consideration of the Mac versus Win XP question, I have gone and done the unthinkable - I am about to enter the Mac world, despite Rutt's warnings. :D

I expect delivery in the next few weeks and after I get it all assembled I will report on the experience. The continued onslaught of security flaws in MS WIN XP pushed me over the edge. :scratch

Good choice. Any tech support you need, let me know. I've been on a Mac for 16 years. See, I know you won't need much support, that's why I can offer ;)

Check out these articles, so you can feel smug:

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2004-09-21-maney_x.htm)

it frees users from the worry and expense of battling viruses and spyware, because there has never been a successful virus targeting the Mac operating system, and there is little or no spyware for the Mac. The many thousands of viruses and spyware programs that afflict Windows can't run on, or harm, Macs. (http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html)

[pathfinder]

Great news! What mac did you get?

If you need any help, don't be afraid to ask. There are actually a lot of us mac users out there :)

Dave
G5 Full boat 23 Cinema display :1drink

Thank you for the offer of support. I am lookiing forward to the change. I will keep my XP box, but migrate stuff over gradually and remove the XP box from the web ultimately and just keep it for running my scanners I think.

[pathfinder]

Good choice. Any tech support you need, let me know. I've been on a Mac for 16 years. See, I know you won't need much support, that's why I can offer ;)

Check out these articles, so you can feel smug:

USA Today (http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/technology/maney/2004-09-21-maney_x.htm)

it frees users from the worry and expense of battling viruses and spyware, because there has never been a successful virus targeting the Mac operating system, and there is little or no spyware for the Mac. The many thousands of viruses and spyware programs that afflict Windows can't run on, or harm, Macs. (http://ptech.wsj.com/ptech.html)


Walt Mossberg's recent column in the Wall Street Journal pushed me over the edge. I went to the Apple store in Indianapolis last Saturday and spent a couple hours with the staff going over every little thing and got most of my questions answered. Do you really run your Macs without antivirus software?

I was quoted a 5 -6 weeks delivery time from Apple , but then they said it would be more like 10 days, so I do not really know when it will arrive.
:dunno I am looking forward to it though.

[patch29]

G5 Full boat 23 Cinema display :1drink


Schwing! :clap

That rocks. I really want a new G5, just waiting for the right time to make a :deal I keep hoping they will come out with a G5 Powerbook, my current one gets me by the G5 would be great for me. I know I may be waiting a long time. I have thought about getting an imac and using it to a degree as a portable computer. :dunno :evil

Do you really run your Macs without antivirus software?

I was quoted a 5 -6 weeks delivery time from Apple , but then they said it would be more like 10 days, so I do not really know when it will arrive.
:dunno I am looking forward to it though.

I don't. :huh (not that I would recommend it) Everything seems ok. :dunno I also do have a firewall and do not open unknown email, but if I did I would not worry.

I would think you will get your G5 sooner than later, my friend's G5 DP 2.5 showed up in about four weeks, but he ordered on when they were released.

[cmr164]

Walt Mossberg's recent column in the Wall Street Journal pushed me over the edge. I went to the Apple store in Indianapolis last Saturday and spent a couple hours with the staff going over every little thing and got most of my questions answered. Do you really run your Macs without antivirus software?
:dunno
DO NOT PUT ANTIVIRUS S/W ON A MAC!!

Norton AV in particular is famous for announcing that it found viruses on macs and removed files when there are no viruses and the files it is removing might well trash your system with their absence. I did some kernel support for MacOSX and some of my suggestions for kernel/memory tuning have been incorporated by the various online support pages. Norton was (is?) offered free with a .mac account. Do not install it! It is like a guy taking birthcontrol pills. The condition can not occur anyway and the medicine can only foul things up.
:rofl

[pathfinder]

DO NOT PUT ANTIVIRUS S/W ON A MAC!!

Norton AV in particular is famous for announcing that it found viruses on macs and removed files when there are no viruses and the files it is removing might well trash your system with their absence. I did some kernel support for MacOSX and some of my suggestions for kernel/memory tuning have been incorporated by the various online support pages. Norton was (is?) offered free with a .mac account. Do not install it! It is like a guy taking birthcontrol pills. The condition can not occur anyway and the medicine can only foul things up.
:rofl

CMR that is JUST the kind of information I needed thanks!
Thanks to all you Mac guys David, Patch, CMR, TML ( hope I have not left anyone out) for your patience answering my questions. I will try not to bother you all with newbie questions :rofl

[mercphoto]

After a long period of thought and consideration of the Mac versus Win XP question, I have gone and done the unthinkable - I am about to enter the Mac world, despite Rutt's warnings. :D

Very cool! Once you switch you will never want to go back. I made the plunge 5 six years ago when I worked for Motorola on the original G4 team. Thought it was cool to buy a product I worked on. Now I've been at AMD for nearly a year and you cannot get me to buy a Windows box again.

Get ready for a computing experience where things just "work".

[DavidTO]

DO NOT PUT ANTIVIRUS S/W ON A MAC!!

Norton AV in particular is famous for announcing that it found viruses on macs and removed files when there are no viruses and the files it is removing might well trash your system with their absence. I did some kernel support for MacOSX and some of my suggestions for kernel/memory tuning have been incorporated by the various online support pages. Norton was (is?) offered free with a .mac account. Do not install it! It is like a guy taking birthcontrol pills. The condition can not occur anyway and the medicine can only foul things up.
:rofl

Don't put anything Norton on your system. Evil.

Get Disk Warrior.

I use a G5 at work, and have one set up at home in addition to my Titanium Powerbook. I love it. I also use the 23" display at home and at work, but I have the older style. One guy in my office has the newer 23" display, and I am very jealous. It's unbelievably gorgeous..

[patch29]

Norton was (is?) offered free with a .mac account. :rofl

For a while they were offering Virex as a free download, not sure if they still do and I never downloaded it.

Glad to know I have been doing the right thing by doing nothing. :clap I guess I can recommend not using antivirus software. :nod Thanks for the info.

[PerezDesignGroup]

If I could afford it, I'd go mac in a trillionth of a heartbeat. Rock solid machinery. I used a PowerMac 8100 waaaay back in the day and even back then it was nice ;)

[mercphoto]

If I could afford it, I'd go mac in a trillionth of a heartbeat. Rock solid machinery. I used a PowerMac 8100 waaaay back in the day and even back then it was nice ;)

Depending on what you want out of a system Macs can be surprisingly affordable. Entry level notebook users can find iBooks to be reasonably priced. If you want a high-quality CRT and the ability to burn DVD's, the eMac is a great buy. Compare it to a Dell, with similar features and similar software, the Apple is comparable.

Want a cool LCD? The new iMac is a great buy, considering the power of the G5, the Super Drive, and how awesome Apple LCD's are.

The pitfalls many people have in comparing Apple to PC prices is not configuring systems identically. Either a PC without the software, or LCD's or CRT's of much lower quality, etc.

[pathfinder]

Depending on what you want out of a system Macs can be surprisingly affordable. Entry level notebook users can find iBooks to be reasonably priced. If you want a high-quality CRT and the ability to burn DVD's, the eMac is a great buy. Compare it to a Dell, with similar features and similar software, the Apple is comparable.

Want a cool LCD? The new iMac is a great buy, considering the power of the G5, the Super Drive, and how awesome Apple LCD's are.

The pitfalls many people have in comparing Apple to PC prices is not configuring systems identically. Either a PC without the software, or LCD's or CRT's of much lower quality, etc.

I actually priced a Dell dual processor Xeon and found Apple Macs very competitive. I find with Windows machines I have to provide new software to REALLY use the CD-R ( Neo Burning ROM rocks - I will miss it for the Mac ) , anti virus stuff , firewall stuff, and DVD player stuff that is never priced into the wintel boxes advertised prices. I am looking for a TOASTER not a hobby with my new computer - I just want it to run PS and let me get on with that rather than spending my evening loading the new security updates and such. You are right - the screens do look lovely.
As I said, after a few months I will report back my opinion in the MAC vs Wintel wars.

[pathfinder]

I actually priced a Dell dual processor Xeon and found Apple Macs very competitive. I find with Windows machines I have to provide new software to REALLY use the CD-R ( Neo Burning ROM rocks - I will miss it for the Mac ) , anti virus stuff , firewall stuff, and DVD player stuff that is never priced into the wintel boxes advertised prices. I am looking for a TOASTER not a hobby with my new computer - I just want it to run PS and let me get on with that rather than spending my evening loading the new security updates and such. You are right - the screens do look lovely.
As I said, after a few months I will report back my opinion in the MAC vs Wintel wars.

Well, I have had my new Mac G5 about 6 weeks now and like I promised, I am here to report on my experience so far... The short version is that it has gone much smoother than I even thought possible. The hardware G5 - 23 inch Cinema display is lovely. The displays always look nice in a store, but only when I compare it side to side with my previous LCDs do I really appreciate how nice the Apple display is.

Comparing the speed to a Wintel box can be deceiving - because some things seem no faster than my 2.2 Ghz Pentium running WinXP in 1 Gig of RAM. But when I open a 16 bit image in Photoshop and begin running a filter like USM or something the power of the Mac and Photoshop taking advantage of the two CPUs really shines.., The machine just does not slow down - even while I am copying from a CF chip to my hard drive and listen to Internet Radio at the same time and updating the attached iPod.

I feel I am beginnig to sound like a true convert here - but the ONLY software I have purchased for this machine that did not come installed was Photoshop CS - and Adobe told me - after the fact - that I need not have bought it if I was willing to destroy my copy of PS for Win XP - they would send me the MAC version. Ah well.....

I have downloaded Firefox for Mac and find I tend to prefer it over Safari but it is a close call. I did get new drivers for my film scanner from Nikon and it works flawlessly. I used Firefox to load in my favorites and cookies from my Wintel box and that worked just fine.

I bought an iPod to use in lieu of a laptop to store digital images - but I find I do enjoy using it and even am downloading music from Apple's music store. I also find listening to Internet radio is a whole new experience with iTunes rather than Real Audio or Windows Media Player.

I just plugged my Sandisk card reader from my Wintel box into my Mac and it just worked immediately - no drivers to install - no nothing - it just worked. I used some speakers I already owned with a subwoofer and they sound just fine. No drivers, no software - just plug and go....:1drink

All in all I have been very pleased - text editing is a little different at first but I am getting the hang of it now - Meanwhile my wife has spent several evenings installing Service Pak II and the subsequent bug fixes for its security flaws on her WIntel laptop....... I have not had any security updates - some of the software updated itself immediately aften intial turning on of my Mac the first time - none since then .

So.... dkapp, DavidTO, Patch, rutt, mercphoto, CMR et al --- thanks for all our help and suggestions - I encourage anyone considering opting out of Windows - come on in the water is just fine!! Like mercphoto said - you won't go back and I think he is absolutely correct. :thumb

[DavidTO]

Very glad to hear it's going so well for you.

When you're ready there are plenty of tips and shortcuts that we could share that will make the experience even nicer.

[pathfinder]

Very glad to hear it's going so well for you.

When you're ready there are plenty of tips and shortcuts that we could share that will make the experience even nicer.
Thank you - Anytime - I am ready to learn more and do more with the Mac :clap :clap

[damonff]

My Powerbook is my best friend (that sounds sad...)

[cmr164]

My Powerbook is my best friend (that sounds sad...)
I am about to pull the trigger on a new 12" G4 iBook for my new girlfriend.

[ginger_55]

Well, I have had my new Mac G5 about 6 weeks now and like I promised, I am here to report on my experience so far... The short version is that it has gone much smoother than I even thought possible. The hardware G5 - 23 inch Cinema display is lovely. The displays always look nice in a store, but only when I compare it side to side with my previous LCDs do I really appreciate how nice the Apple display is.

. :thumb
Oh, good lord! I needed (not) to find this thread. After my last bout with spyware, running scans, repairs, etc., I was ready to say it would be a Mac next time.

Now I have serious Mac envy NOW!

g

[mercphoto]

After my last bout with spyware, running scans, repairs, etc., I was ready to say it would be a Mac next time. Now I have serious Mac envy NOW!

ROTFL! I switched about six years ago and it has been great ever since. Things just WORK. And the famous price delta is not that great when comparing Apples to apples, so to speak. Rock-bottom Dell's are cheaper, until you throw in a nice monitor, some software, yadda yadda.

iBooks are a great value, as are eMacs (which has a lovely CRT as well, great for photos). My only complaint on my 12" PowerBook is I did not buy the Super Drive. Oh well.

And don't tell my employer, AMD, that I am telling people to buy Macintosh. ;)

[pathfinder]

Oh, good lord! I needed (not) to find this thread. After my last bout with spyware, running scans, repairs, etc., I was ready to say it would be a Mac next time.

Now I have serious Mac envy NOW!

g
:rofl :rofl :rofl Come on over Ginger - the water's just fine! :thumb

[tmlphoto]

:rofl :rofl :rofl Come on over Ginger - the water's just fine! :thumbI just upgraded to a SONY box with a sony 19 xbrite lcd monitor that is very impressive. I'm seeing my pictures in a new light. I'm sure it doesn't compare spec wise with the apple display, but this is a really great looking monitor. Cost about $800 at Best Buy. Resist the dark side Ginger. :rofl

[patch29]

My only complaint on my 12" PowerBook is I did not buy the Super Drive.

I bought an 8x Lacie external DVD burner for about $200.00 a few months ago to use with my Powerbook, since the superdrive was only 1X. It has been great and it came with the full version of Toast 6. Something to add on if you have not already done it. It is so much faster than my old drive.

[grinner]

but then, it's really just a flavor preference.
I always kinda liked to mix chocolate with vanilla.
Just felt like more freedom to me.
http://grinnerhester.com/CowSig.gif

[DavidTO]

Thank you - Anytime - I am ready to learn more and do more with the Mac :clap :clap

The first thing to make sure of is that you are running the basic maintenance.

You should do the following things regularly:

1)Repair Permissions
2)Repair the disk directory
3)Run the UNIX periodic maintenance
4)Backup

There are many ways to get those things done, but I'm going to recommend only one. It requires that you buy three things.

First,Macaroni (http://atomicbird.com/). This $9 app will repair your disk permissions and run the UNIX maintenance scripts on a schedule that you set in the background. You actually don't need to set anything, as the default settings are fine. Just install it, enter your serial number and let it go.

Second, get Disk Warrior (http://alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/index.html). This does one thing, and it does it better than any other application. It repairs corruptions to your disk's directory that WILL happen over time. You should run this every 2-4 weeks, just to be safe. This will be your most expensive purchase, at $80. But it's well worth it.

Third, is SuperDuper! (http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html) a great $20 app for backing up your data to a firewire drive. It will make an exact, bootable copy of your drive so that when your drive fails (they all fail eventually) you only lose the time it takes you to reboot on the other disk. Very nice. It's got lots of other features, too.

[patch29]

Third, is SuperDuper! (http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html) a great $20 app for backing up your data to a firewire drive. It will make an exact, bootable copy of your drive so that when your drive fails (they all fail eventually) you only lose the time it takes you to reboot on the other disk. Very nice. It's got lots of other features, too.

Those are some good links. I have been using Carbon Copy Cloner (http://www.bombich.com/software/index.html) to make a bootable backup copy on a FW drive of my main drive. It works very well and is shareware (don't pay or pay $5.00). A real bargain. CCC reviews/info (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/13260) on versiontracker.

[photocat]

I guess I'll stick with the viruses and worms in the dungeon....http://www.dgrin.com/images/icons/Wicked.gif[/QUOTE]


Want to chime in here... My first mac was a plus. A tiny little square almost box with black and white screen. But it smiled at me when I started it up.
I have been hooked on macs since that time (1990). I went from plus to LC, to LCII color screen, with a giant HD of 40 MB.
But my mac kept smiling at me, it knew me, and I knew it. I could adapt everything I wanted. I could add icons all over the place. I could play and fiddle with it. I took floppies of 400 K over to move stuff.
I have now just bought the iMac G5, and I love it to death. I use photoshop around 14 hours a day. I say you have to have good shoes and a good bed. You are either in one or in the other.
I forget my mac in that reasoning.
I have converted my hubby to a mac. He works as a astro space ingeneer (I think... grin) and was pc only.
Now we are both happy... on mac.
Hmm, what was I saying? Photoshop... I used my ibook 12 inch for 3 years to do photostuff, with that little screen that had over time turned white into yellow.

The main reason I love apple mac is not because of the consumer friendlyness of the firm, but because it looks so good, and it works so smoothly. You can have fun with that thing. Consumerfriendlyness is a total different matter. If you ever had a problem with a mac you will know what I am talking about. Apple support is hell. You have to be switched through six automated voices before you actually get a person to speak to you. Here in UK we then are connected with some chap in bangladesh who has the most terrible accent and who probably doesn't understand what I am talking about just as I have no idea what he is talking about.
If you know what you are doing and know the mac, you are better off with mac.

I love the fact that I still can adapt icons and the playful stuff. We do work on pc's in school, and it is a disaster for me. I have to look for everything.
The mac is plug and play. (Hah! that is after you checked the voltage).

I believe in the mac as being user friendly and nice to look at.
It costs more then pc's, but it is worth every penny I say.
In general, your mac lives a lot longer then a pc.

I firmly believe that every photographer should have a mac.
I have worked for a newspaper in Belgium for more then ten years, and the graphics companies all have mac.
WYSIWYG is no lost word with mac.

If you work with pics you need a mac...

[DavidTO]

Those are some good links. I have been using Carbon Copy Cloner (http://www.bombich.com/software/index.html) to make a bootable backup copy on a FW drive of my main drive. It works very well and is shareware (don't pay or pay $5.00). A real bargain. CCC reviews/info (http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/13260) on versiontracker.

I moved from CCC to SuperDuper. CCC is great, and a great deal, but SuperDuper has taken it a step higher, and is a more polished app. You can even set it up so that you can easily revert to a prior system state (like if you find that 10.3.6 breaks something you need) through a simple restart. Very cool.

[DavidTO]

I believe in the mac as being user friendly and nice to look at.
It costs more then pc's, but it is worth every penny I say.
In general, your mac lives a lot longer then a pc.


Some interesting articles on the subject:

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36964.html
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/37806.html

[photocat]

Some interesting articles on the subject:

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36120.html
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/36964.html
http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/37806.html

Interesting reading material though I am no wizz kid, so there is lot that escapes me. Call me technically challenged.
Thanks for the links. So the mac is not more expensive then the PC. What a positive note...

[pathfinder]

The first thing to make sure of is that you are running the basic maintenance.

You should do the following things regularly:

1)Repair Permissions
2)Repair the disk directory
3)Run the UNIX periodic maintenance
4)Backup

There are many ways to get those things done, but I'm going to recommend only one. It requires that you buy three things.

First,Macaroni (http://atomicbird.com/). This $9 app will repair your disk permissions and run the UNIX maintenance scripts on a schedule that you set in the background. You actually don't need to set anything, as the default settings are fine. Just install it, enter your serial number and let it go.

Second, get Disk Warrior (http://alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/index.html). This does one thing, and it does it better than any other application. It repairs corruptions to your disk's directory that WILL happen over time. You should run this every 2-4 weeks, just to be safe. This will be your most expensive purchase, at $80. But it's well worth it.

Third, is SuperDuper! (http://www.shirt-pocket.com/SuperDuper/SuperDuperDescription.html) a great $20 app for backing up your data to a firewire drive. It will make an exact, bootable copy of your drive so that when your drive fails (they all fail eventually) you only lose the time it takes you to reboot on the other disk. Very nice. It's got lots of other features, too.


I have purchased and installed Macaroni, and downloaded SuperDuper. I am not quite sure if it will clone to a DVD or multiple DVDs. I am in the process of adding a 2nd internal hard drive to my Power Mac to use for backup. I will order Disk Warrior soon - apparently it will not boot a G5 with the 30 Inch display - mine is 23 inches so this probably is not a problem.

I do have one question tho .... sometimes when I am copying and moving files into different directories I don't think I quite am doing it right.
I can select files to move by using Apple-A to select all the files in a directory or shift-mouse click the first and last file in a group to select all the files in between. The click and drag should move them to the new directory. But occaisionally, after highlighting several files ( selected) in blue, when I try to click and drag the group, I will only get the single file the cursor is on even though numerous files were selected. I am not sure what is causing this to happen and it is not consistent. But when this starts, I cannt seem to move more than one file at a time in the affected directory. I think there must be something simple I am overlooking, but I can't seem to find it. Any suggestions?

The three articles you linked were very interesting. One point the first article pointed out was that in similarly equipped high end desk top machines - MAC versus Wintel - Dual G5 vs Xeon - The Wintel boxes were more expensive. This was exactly my experience when I began shopping for a dual processor high end desk top image editing computer. That was what first started me looking again at an Apple - I had thought they were more expensive - but when compared - Apple to Dell - I did not find that to be the case.
One of the things that really irritated me was Adobe's requiring activation iin WIN XP. I lost several hours of work when Photoshop in Win XP would SUDDENLY shut down because it could not find the activation coding and any editing I had done was also lost - AND I did buy and own the activation coding - some software glitch I am sure but annoying big time . Macs, of course, do not require the activation coding for Photoshop.

Thanks for your suggestions. I am interested in any others you may think I need to be aware of.

[DavidTO]

But occaisionally, after highlighting several files ( selected) in blue, when I try to click and drag the group, I will only get the single file the cursor is on even though numerous files were selected. I am not sure what is causing this to happen and it is not consistent. But when this starts, I cannt seem to move more than one file at a time in the affected directory. I think there must be something simple I am overlooking, but I can't seem to find it. Any suggestions?

I'm not sure what's causing the problem, could be a corrupted pref, bad permissions, or even a wanky mouse.

My one suggestion is to copy/paste. Simple type cmd-c to copy the files, navigate to where you're going and then hit cmd-v to pase.

What view are you in for the finder window? There are times when being in column view can be a problem when deleting files--and that is when you've got the preview activated. The finder thinks the file is open (I guess it is, really) and won't allow deleting it. If you go to another view or close the preview thing, it'll delete just fine.

[Andy]

Ahhh, a question for the ages. One of the true classics, right up there with



Canon or Nikon?
Film or digital?
Dave or Sammy?
Less filling or tastes great?
Although I'm a PC guy, for what you've described I'd say go with a Mac. I'll have to defer to someone else for the spec you would want in a Mac for photo work.

:lurk

d00d you left out:



ginger or mary ann?
wilma or betty?
betty or veronica?

[DavidTO]

d00d you left out:



ginger or mary ann?
wilma or betty?
betty or veronica?


Geez, and I thought it was:

virus/spyware ridden mess or utopian bliss
highly critical security flaws or tightly protected OS
frustratingly poor user interface or pleasant user experience.

But I guess that's just me ;)