Portable lighting: advice needed

[Nikolai]

I'm working my ways into pro photog biz step-by-step.
I did a vew "free"/"almost free" gigs before, and now another one is coming where I'll be the "top dog":-), i.e. appointed "official" phographer.
It's an indoor reception, pretty big crowd (about 50..80 ppl). Light probably is gonna be pretty poor (restaurant type of thing).
Since I hope those thing will happen more and more often, I plan to invest a little bit and get meself a set of portable lights with reflecting umbrellas and such (are they called softboxes?).

I'm thinking of a portable set, containing a "background" screen (maybe have a kit with several types - dark, light, med), and two "soft" lights. They have to come with all the stands/booms/cables or whatever is needed to operate them (and hopefully some storage/transportation case) - I currently have nada.

I have the latest B&H catalog and I still have some time to order them before the gig (end of May).

However, the options are too many, so I'd appreciate some specific advices.

What shall I get?

Thank you!

[dragon300zx]

Budget?

Personally I would go with strobes, Maybe a setup from alien bee. They have good stuff at great prices. A good setup from them for a portable studio for lighting a few people at a time would be around 1500 give or take a few 100. Thats actually what I want I may end up buying a temporary setup from B&H for around 500 myself for now. Backdrop stand and if you don't wanna foot out for muslin right away try a local fabric store and see what they have. Upbrella's are jsut that umprella's with a silver lining. (I know my spelling is bad) SoftBox's are even better IMHO. They are those big black things that go over the lights and have a white front to them. Nice even lighting from them.

[Nikolai]

Budget?

Personally I would go with strobes, Maybe a setup from alien bee. They have good stuff at great prices. A good setup from them for a portable studio for lighting a few people at a time would be around 1500 give or take a few 100. Thats actually what I want I may end up buying a temporary setup from B&H for around 500 myself for now. Backdrop stand and if you don't wanna foot out for muslin right away try a local fabric store and see what they have. Upbrella's are jsut that umprella's with a silver lining. (I know my spelling is bad) SoftBox's are even better IMHO. They are those big black things that go over the lights and have a white front to them. Nice even lighting from them.
But you see, I don't know *what* I need..:-(

Softboxes(those thingies with diffusing panels in front)?
Lights with reflective umbrellas?
Strobes (they are like flashes on stands, right?)? Do I need the umbrellas for them?

What are the pros/cons of each? Which one would be the most versatile for a wannabe pro (i.e. without Andy's budget:-). I guess I need someting to match the price/versatility of my 8282's 28..200 fixed zoom lens..



Gosh, I'm such a n00b:dunno

[dragon300zx]

If only I was still in california we would go shopping. If ya want PM me a budget and I will do a list of what I would buy if I could afford it.

[Nikolai]

If only I was still in california we would go shopping. If ya want PM me a budget and I will do a list of what I would buy if I could afford it.
Can I ask for a favor and play it in 3 modes:
$500 - $1,000 - $1,500?

Thanks!!:thumb

[dragon300zx]

K ill figure something out and post it.

[tmlphoto]

Nik,
What kind of shots are you talking about taking at this event and how to you see using this equipment in the future? There are so many options out there that you should be able to taylor to your needs and budget. Any chance of using an available background? Can you do bounce flash with your setup? I recently used a Lightsphere II to shoot a wedding reception. It works great, especially if you have a ceiling to bounce off of.

I started my home studio with one strobe and a reflector and a black background. Lighter backgrounds will require you to have one or more lights to light the background in addition to the light/lights you use to light the subject. An umbrella is much easier to setup than a softbox ( also less expensive). Shooting with studio lights takes a bit of getting used to, as it introduces quite a few variables into the mix.

[Nikolai]

Nik,
What kind of shots are you talking about taking at this event and how to you see using this equipment in the future? There are so many options out there that you should be able to taylor to your needs and budget. Any chance of using an available background? Can you do bounce flash with your setup? I recently used a Lightsphere II to shoot a wedding reception. It works great, especially if you have a ceiling to bounce off of.

I started my home studio with one strobe and a reflector and a black background. Lighter backgrounds will require you to have one or more lights to light the background in addition to the light/lights you use to light the subject. An umbrella is much easier to setup than a softbox ( also less expensive). Shooting with studio lights takes a bit of getting used to, as it introduces quite a few variables into the mix.
Thank you for your reply..

Well, here is my thoughts.

I would like to use this setup for both receiption-like shooting and possible portraits session at the customer's place.
I know from experience that ceiling is not always availalble (more often not than is), so a good pair of lights is quite a necessity.

I don't know if I need strobes or lights:dunno

I feel that I need a background, 'cause again, I had too many pictures of ppl against the doors with knobs or walls with electrical outlets. Maybe I need a stand (which one?) and buy a fabric separately?

Too many questions.. Stobes, lights, softboxes..Arrgh.. I would love to work for free for a month or two (part-time:-) in a good versatile studio just to learn the diffference.. Anybody in LA viscinity needs a high-quality photo-slave?:D

[ian408]

An umbrella is much easier to setup than a softbox ( also less expensive). Shooting with studio lights takes a bit of getting used to, as it introduces quite a few variables into the mix.
Indeed. Shooting like this will require you to look into things like a meter
to get the exposure correct. And it will require time to learn to do it well.

I got a bit of an introduction back in December and while I thought I did
OK, it was a lot of work to get right. Here's a sample:

http://ian408.smugmug.com/photos/12611136-M.jpg

This set up was lit with a softbox camera right, an umbrella just behind the
camera. A smaller fill light lower left and a reflector to the left. The
background is probably 10x20 feet.

If I had to do it again, I'd probably use a better hair light.


Ian

[Shay Stephens]

Start simple. You can do a lot with a single light. You can add more lights as you gain experience and/or need to light larger or more difficult things. Here is an example of some shots using a single light from my recent Arizona/Mexico wedding shoot:

http://forums.shaystephens.com/graphics/loos400.jpg

http://forums.shaystephens.com/graphics/loos406.jpg

http://forums.shaystephens.com/graphics/loos408.jpg

http://forums.shaystephens.com/graphics/loos463.jpg
For the top three photos, I was using a softbox, for the bottom shot, I was using a brollybox. I connect them to a Sunpak 555 handle mount flash on top of a light stand and triggered with a Pocketwizard plus radio transmitter/receiver pair.

Of course, you can choose any equipment you like, this is but one possibility:
PocketWizard Plus Transmitter...............$165.00 B&H # WIPWPT
Pocket Wizard Plus receiver...................$184.00 B&H # WIPWPR
10' light stand.....................................$39.95 Alienbees # LS3050
32" brollybox.......................................$2 9.95 Alienbees # UB32
Sunpak 555 flash unit...........................$169.95 B&H # SU555
Sunpak to Pocketwizard cord.................$17.95 B&H # WICHHM16
Chimera Softbox, White 16x22................$118.95 B&H# CHSPPBXSW
Chimera Speed Ring..............................$41.95 B&H# CHSRHMR
umbrella adapter..................................$13.95 B&H # gbmb
----------------------------------------$782

You can save some money by just using a brolly box for soft lighting
PocketWizard Plus Transmitter...............$165.00 B&H # WIPWPT
Pocket Wizard Plus receiver...................$184.00 B&H # WIPWPR
10' light stand.....................................$39.95 Alienbees # LS3050
32" brollybox.......................................$2 9.95 Alienbees # UB32
Sunpak 555 flash unit...........................$169.95 B&H # SU555
Sunpak to Pocketwizard cord.................$17.95 B&H # WICHHM16
umbrella adapter..................................$13.95 B&H # gbmb
----------------------------------------$621

Save more by using a sync cord or other means to trigger the light
10' light stand.....................................$39.95 Alienbees # LS3050
32" brollybox.......................................$2 9.95 Alienbees # UB32
Sunpak 555 flash unit...........................$169.95 B&H # SU555
Sunpak to Pocketwizard cord.................$17.95 B&H # WICHHM16
umbrella adapter..................................$13.95 B&H # gbmb
----------------------------------------$272

The advantage of using battery operated lighting is not having to be close to a power outlet, which as you can probably imagine is not always within reach of your cords :wink which brings up another point to be aware of, on location work and cords are a terrible combination. Eliminate your dependence on cords to the barest minimum. Radio transmitter/receivers are a pricey solution, but wireless triggering is worth it's weight in gold, trust me.

*Additional note:
As Ian mentioned, a light meter is a wonderful tool when shooting with flash. I use a Sekonic L-358 and have been pleased with it. You can get by without one if only using a single flash, but once you go multiple flash, You better have already had and used successfully a light/flash meter.

[Nikolai]

Thank you very much!:thumb
Cheers!:1drink

[Nikolai]

You got me here.. I feel so stupid, I don't even know what a brollybox is :scratch
It looks like I need to get "studio lighting 101" first.. :dunno
Man.. Thanks for all the details! I'll try to digest the info.. Thanks a bunch!:thumb

[tmlphoto]

You got me here.. I feel so stupid, I don't even know what a brollybox is :scratch
It looks like I need to get "studio lighting 101" first.. :dunno
Man.. Thanks for all the details! I'll try to digest the info.. Thanks a bunch!:thumb
A brolly box is basically a "poor mans" softbox. It is like an umbrella with a diffusion cover in front. Must faster to setup & transport than a softbox.
This site is very organized and can give you an idea about what everyone is talking about. Their prices aren't too bad. www.alienbees.com (http://www.alienbees.com)

[Nikolai]

A brolly box is basically a "poor mans" softbox. It is like an umbrella with a diffusion cover in front. Must faster to setup & transport than a softbox.
This site is very organized and can give you an idea about what everyone is talking about. Their prices aren't too bad. www.alienbees.com (http://www.alienbees.com/)I looked at it, but I'm still confused... Too many unknowns, too many variables..
I guess I need to made my pick (prolly a rather cheap one), start using it and then drift towards a better solution.. just like with the cameras..

Here's what I'm looking at right now:

B&H # IMQ12002K 1200 2-light quarts kit $279:

2 - Sminth-Vector 600 wt open face thungsten Lights
2 - DYH 600Wt/120V lamps
2 - Impact 6' Light Stands
2 - 45' umbrellas with removable balck/white cover
2 - Impact Shoe Mount Brackets
1 - Impact Light Kit bag (Nik: should hold the whole circus)
B&H #COR756 Background Support System $89

2 - 8.5 Aluminum Stands
Cross bar
Travel case
I read on the alienbee site about some nice fabric, so I think of paying a visit to a local fabric store, should do the decent backdrop for $20..40..

I don't seem to be able to find el cheapo hair light..:-( Will look more...

---
Does this setup make any sense to you pro guys?

[Shay Stephens]

Hot lights are better for studio work, harder to use for location work. But that is not to say one cannot use hot lights successfully on location. You will need AC power however, which is not always available.

The light stands are short. Look for something in the 8-10 foot range to get more versatility in where you can place the light relative to the heads of people.

The umbrellas are nice, I like the black covered/shoot through type. Very versatile.

I like the umbrella brackets.

Cases are cases for the most part. I like to use rolling cases myself since it is often a long walk to carry a heavy bag.

As far as backgrounds go, they are a major pain in the butt to use on location. If you must use a background, one of the collapsible types (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=search&Q=&ci=6462) is easier to deal with, and ideally, no backgrounds will be used, instead, using the environment of the venue usually makes for more meaningful location backgrounds anyway.

Location work and studio work are different animals for sure. As far as hair lights for location work, I would probably opt for using the second light as a hair/accent light and using a reflector for fill instead of using three lights (main, fill, accent). The less equipment you can take with you on location, the happier you will wind up being, and the quicker you can setup and tear down.

Fabric stores are a great place for backgrounds. But the problem you may run into is that they are usually limited to single portraits (headshots to 3/4 length) because you can't get fabric wide enough to do much more. Regular muslin backgrounds are both long and wide to let you shoot full length and groups, and all that fabric and the painting can add up to a pricey little number.

Oh, by the way, lighting is expensive and complicated. There is no getting around that, if anyone tells you otherwise, they are trying to sell you something, or have no experience themselves :wink

[ian408]

Another thing not on the list. If you plan on setting lights, especially if they'll
be boomed or are large (like a softbox/brolly), you need to make sure they
don't go anywhere. You should add some sandbags to your list. Also, at
Home Depot or OSH, pick up some clamps to secure cords to stands,
background to stands, whatever. And if you aren't going wireless, a few
rolls of gaffer's tape (don't use duct tape!) to tape the cords to the floor.

Like Shay says, the stands aren't tall enough. I'd get two stands at least
13' (for backgrounds) and the other two at least 10'. You may not get a
choice with the kit though.

Look forward to seeing a few shots as you get ready!

Ian

[Nikolai]

Once again, I *really* appreciate your time and your advice.
You made me thinking and that's usually good:-)

Which means I have other questions though (if you don't mind)

You said "hot lights".. What would be not "hot"? Why's one better than the other?

Do I need a "continuos" light or a "strobe" (which is like a flash unit, right?)? Or a combination?

If I buy all the parts separately (stands, booms, lights, umbrellas, reflectors, etc) - what kind of connectors would I need? Are they all standard, or they all required some additional part to interconnect?

Arrgh, too many questions.. And this comment of yours that it's complicated and expensive.. How am I supposed to *start*? There is no way I can spend 3..5 Gs on this thing, it's an overkill...:-(

Thanks alot again!:thumb

[Nikolai]

Thank you very, very much, I do appreciate your time and your sharing..
I didn't even know about that gaffer's tape - but now I do:-)
I got the "hint" about the stands' height, clamps and bags..

Man, so many things to learn..

OK, I need to digest this!

Thanks!:thumb

[pathfinder]

Thank you very, very much, I do appreciate your time and your sharing..
I didn't even know about that gaffer's tape - but now I do:-)
I got the "hint" about the stands' height, clamps and bags..

Man, so many things to learn..

OK, I need to digest this!

Thanks!:thumb
Nik, Adorama sells a wedding kit with two strobes, 10ft stands, umbrelllas, with modelling lights for about ~$600. I bought the Flashpopint II version to shoot choirs and church functions. But it does have cords. I have given thought to a 12v battery with an 500watt inverter to sove this though. YOu might give this a look. Having control of the light solves so many problems with location shooting.
As Shay says, an expsoure meter is helpful, but a little pre shoot trial with your histogram will also help a lot.

[Nikolai]

Nik, Adorama sells a wedding kit with two strobes, 10ft stands, umbrelllas, with modelling lights for about ~$600. I bought the Flashpopint II version to shoot choirs and church functions. But it does have cords. I have given thought to a 12v battery with an 500watt inverter to sove this though. YOu might give this a look. Having control of the light solves so many problems with location shooting.
As Shay says, an expsoure meter is helpful, but a little pre shoot trial with your histogram will also help a lot.
I will check it out!

[Nikolai]

First of all , Id' like to thank all of you for your time and the info/knowledge you shared.

However, with me being such a n00b in this aspect, I am still not sure what I need to get:-(
But I know that I need to get some for the gig in question.

I wonder if any of you would agree to perform a "together online-phone shopping" with me over the weekend?

The idea is:

We agree on a time which is most convenient for you
I call you
We discuss a few basic things over the phone (like what kind of light, etc.) and get an idea of the "kit"
We navigate to the same online store or a couple of them (b&h, adorama, alienbee, etc)
We go through the discussed kit list
You help me to choose each particular item(s)
We're done!
I think 30 min would be plenty, maybe even less, I'm not a person who goes for malls for hours, I'm more like "get in, buy it, get out", even with electronics, if you can believe that (OK, I *can* spend an hour or two in Fry's or Best Buy, but that's when I'm simply browsing:-).

I know I'm asking alot... :bow Your help will be much appreciated!
TIA:thumb

[tmlphoto]

I will check it out!
Hot lights or continuous lighting is kind of the old way of shooting. I have no experience with them, but I think you will be happier with strobes. When used with modeling lights they should work very well. I agree with Shay that less is better, so try to simplify your equipment and setup. I agree with Path about not absolutely needing a light meter. I generally guess at my initial settings and then adjust the strobes by taking some quick test shots and chimping the histogram and the image on the LCD. This works pretty well for basic lighting setups. Remember to put you camera on manual and adjust the lighting with the output from the strobes. Your shutter speed won't really effect the shot and your aperture should be chosen based on the FOV you want. For group shots I usually stop down some to ensure that everyone is in focus. I'm sure Shay has more knowledge about this aspect of shooting with strobes. As I said before you are opening up a whole new set of variable to contend with. I would do a test setup and get some experience with it before I would take into the field.

[Nikolai]

Hot lights or continuous lighting is kind of the old way of shooting. I have no experience with them, but I think you will be happier with strobes. When used with modeling lights they should work very well. I agree with Shay that less is better, so try to simplify your equipment and setup. I agree with Path about not absolutely needing a light meter. I generally guess at my initial settings and then adjust the strobes by taking some quick test shots and chimping the histogram and the image on the LCD. This works pretty well for basic lighting setups. Remember to put you camera on manual and adjust the lighting with the output from the strobes. Your shutter speed won't really effect the shot and your aperture should be chosen based on the FOV you want. For group shots I usually stop down some to ensure that everyone is in focus. I'm sure Shay has more knowledge about this aspect of shooting with strobes. As I said before you are opening up a whole new set of variable to contend with. I would do a test setup and get some experience with it before I would take into the field.
This is great, very instructive.. :thumb

Always "wanted to know but was afraid to ask": What's the "modeling lights"? Are they part of the "strobes"? Are they separate? How exactly do I use them?
Also - how do I trigger those strobes by my Sony 828 (I may also have a drebel 300 with a kit lens which I plan to borrow from a friend)? By that fancy radio trnsmitter Shay has? I guess strobes differ by the method of triggering, so I need to make a decision before buying..

Too many questions..darn..

Once I get the setup, I will definitely try it at home first (I have a very nice model who likes to pose:

http://nik.smugmug.com/photos/22188704-M.jpg

this is Helen readying to play Mercedes:-)

Thanks a lot!

[ian408]

A modeling light is always on low power light that helps visualize where the
strobe is aimed. It's a handy thing :thumb

[Nikolai]

A modeling light is always on low power light that helps visualize where the
strobe is aimed. It's a handy thing :thumbOr they maybe w/o it? And if I use an umbrella - how would it work then?

[patch29]

I would try and get to a local retailer to look at some of the options in person, so you know what everyone is talking about.

Calumet Photo (http://www.calumetphoto.com/ctl?PAGE=Controller&ac.ui.pn=compinfo.CompStoreLoc) should be local to you and have some very nice strobe equipment to show you. Their house brand strobe units are very nice and give you decent value. They serve professionals and should be able to give you very good guidance.
Their pricing is good and they will often match B+H, at least if you call in an order.



White Lightning (http://www.white-lightning.com/) is another option for affordable strobe gear.

[patch29]

Most strobe heads have a modeling light, halogen/incandecent bulb and a flash tube, typically the modeling light is in the center and the flash tube will surround the modeling light.

[Shay Stephens]

Regardless of what lights you decide on, there are a few things that are standard. You need light stands. They need to be tall enough to reach over peoples heads. I have 10 footers, but at times, I wish I had taller. For me 10 footers are a compromise on size and weight for location work and portability.

Depending on the light you get, you may or may not need an umbrella adapter. Some lights have it built in, some don't. They basically allow the light to tilt up and down, and have an opening that an umbrella can mount to. My Sunpak 555 flashes do not have one built in, so I need to have them. They connect to the top of the light stand, and the light connects to the top of the umbrella adapter.

You need a light next. Hot lights are typically incandescent lights that are on continuously. Flash units as you know only fire off for an instant. Hot lights need an AC power connection, flash units can be battery powered. I can usually go all day on a single set of batteries in my lights as long as I am shooting at 1/8 power or less. I don't want to unduly sway you against hot lights, but in my opinion, flash is better suited for location work.

There are studio type flash units (AC powered) and battery powered flash units. I have both the studio type (alienbees) and the battery powered type (Sunpak 555). The 555's don't have a modeling light, but they are more portable, and I always opt to use them on location rather than the studio lights. The 555's have a long handle, which is not really ideal for umbrella usage. And I continue to look for something better suited for me. As with most things here, you have to make compromises with everything hehehe.

Next comes light modifiers. Your light, unmodified, will have a hard shadow transition (not inherently bad, but not always desirable either). At times you may want to modify the light to have a softer shadow edge transition. In that case, something as simple as an umbrella can serve you very well. As mentioned above, the umbrella mounts to the light (if so equipped) or the umbrella adapter. You point the light into the umbrella and the light bounces out of the umbrella, effectively increasing the size of the light source and making the shadows softer.

Another option that is more complicated is a softbox. Softboxes require more setup time and different mounting. You need what is called a speed ring. The speed ring mounts to the light stand or the umbrella adapter (depending on type) and the light mounts to one side of the speed ring and the softbox to the other side. It allows the light to connect to and fire into the softbox. The light bounces around inside and through diffusers until it finally exits the softbox now large and as diffused as it can get for the size of the softbox. If you are just starting out however, I would stick to umbrellas to start with.

Next, you need a way to trigger the lights. This can be as simple as using a long sync cord from camera to light. However, location work is murder with sync cords. Try to avoid this like the plague. The next option is optical triggering. While this does work, it is not always reliable enough on location in varying lighting situations and other peoples flash going off triggering your lights. The most reliable method is to trigger the lights with radio signals. There are more and more manufacturers now coming out with radio units of various prices ranges, triggering distances, and triggering features. So do some homework here to find the right one for you.

The triggering method you choose and the device you decide on in particular will determine what kind of trigger cord you will need to connect the trigger to the light. These are short little things, usually around 6-12 inches or so.

Now as far as deciding on what to get, that is a hard one, because in the beginning, you just want light, and don't care how, or who, or what makes it. You see all these big price tags, and you just want to get a cheap kit to start with, with the plan of getting better in the future.

Here is the problem with that plan. You will wind up spending more money and getting poorer results than if you had just spent the time to figure it all out ahead of time. In my opinion, getting a single light in the configuration you will ultimately need is far more useful and beneficial than getting a larger kit that does not fit as well and will need replacing after your first unsatisfactory result using them.

If you buy what you really need, in smaller quantities, you can always get more later. Start with a single light setup to start, then get a second light setup, and then later still a third light. Three lights for me are the most versatile, the most bang for the buck if you will. I often use just a single light for portraits and some group shots and small venue work, two lights for some group and larger venue work, and a three light setup for lighting up very large venues has done very well for me. I rarely if ever need a fourth light.

So don't think you need to have it all now, build up your lighting kit in stages. Get what you really need and resist the urge to buy something cheap and easy, because most likely it will wind up being neither :wink

Which means I have other questions though (if you don't mind)

[patch29]

I found a couple of online lighting instruction sites. They are put together by manufacturers, who want to sell their product, but take a look at the techniques they are using and you can substitute other manufacturers items.

Photoflex Lighting School (http://www.photoflexlightingschool.com/index.html)

Elinchrom Tips (http://www.elinchrom.com/guide1.htm)

[Nikolai]

Thank you so much!
:bow :bow :bow
I cannot properly express my gratitude for this awesome Lighting 101.
I know - from being a pretty high end pro in my own trade - how hard is to explain those somewhat complex things to a total rookie.. And I can only imagine how valuable your time is, so I totally appreciate your sparing it on my silly requests.. I would like to assure you that this lesson won't go in vain.

Funny, it looks like the lighting set would cost more than a new camera.. Definitely funny considering that all I have is 828.. May be I should bite the bullet and get 20D at least with akit lens.. Otherwise it's almost like having George Lucas' studio setup to shoot with a cellphone..:):
Cheers!:1drink

[Nikolai]

I found a couple of online lighting instruction sites. They are put together by manufacturers, who want to sell their product, but take a look at the techniques they are using and you can substitute other manufacturers items.

Photoflex Lighting School (http://www.photoflexlightingschool.com/index.html)

Elinchrom Tips (http://www.elinchrom.com/guide1.htm)
I really appreciate the time, efforts and willingness to go extra mile you and the others do to help me. :bow

The least I can do is to use all this lore of shared knowledge, follow the lead and actually do something that would make a difference..

I guess that gig of mine would be *way* upside down considering all the investments I need to make:rofl

[Shay Stephens]

Hey, I thought you were on a budget :wink

May be I should bite the bullet and get 20D at least with akit lens..

[Nikolai]

Hey, I thought you were on a budget :winkYessir, especially after my car troubles.. Just thinking out loud.. Having - even incomplete set of - realtively high quality lighting equipment - and a consumer camera.. It immediately becomes "the weakest link".. It feels like adding Andy's 30" cinema display to a 25Mhz 386 with 1Mb of RAM a "huge" 40Mb hard drive, you know what I'm saying.. Something (camera) is way out of line here..:dunno

[Shay Stephens]

Yes, I know what you mean. However, I used the 717 and the 828 with studio lighting for a long time, and a single light for location work. The 828 does well especially with good lighting. So don't think you have to change cameras just because you have new lighting.

I moved to SLR for performance reasons, and if I had to choose right now between lighting or a new camera, I would choose lighting. It will provide more bang for the buck than will an SLR at this point.

Even after you get the lighting and new camera, there will be plenty of new things that will then tempt you as being essential now. It is a never ending vicious cycle hehehe

Yessir, especially after my car troubles.. Just thinking out loud.. Having - even incomplete set of - realtively high quality lighting equipment - and a consumer camera.. It immediately becomes "the weakest link".. It feels like adding Andy's 30" cinema display to a 25Mhz 386 with 1Mb of RAM a "huge" 40Mb hard drive, you know what I'm saying.. Something (camera) is way out of line here..:dunno

[Nikolai]

Yes, I know what you mean. However, I used the 717 and the 828 with studio lighting for a long time, and a single light for location work. The 828 does well especially with good lighting. So don't think you have to change cameras just because you have new lighting.

I moved to SLR for performance reasons, and if I had to choose right now between lighting or a new camera, I would choose lighting. It will provide more bang for the buck than will an SLR at this point.

Even after you get the lighting and new camera, there will be plenty of new things that will then tempt you as being essential now. It is a never ending vicious cycle hehehe
I guess I'll use my old good black-bodied doggie for a while, eh:-)
This way wifie would not scream *too* loud:-)
Thanks again!

[Lee Massey]

For the brolly box at Alien Bees I see that it says:

"Acting like a softbox, it’s designed like an umbrella, fitting through your reflector as an umbrella would, then tightening around the faceplate to eliminate light spill"

From what I understand it tightens around the AB to prevent spill. How does that work for a flash (i.e. Sunpak) How does it tighten around a non-AB flash unit?

Thanks,

Lee


A brolly box is basically a "poor mans" softbox. It is like an umbrella with a diffusion cover in front. Must faster to setup & transport than a softbox.
This site is very organized and can give you an idea about what everyone is talking about. Their prices aren't too bad. www.alienbees.com (http://www.alienbees.com/)

[ian408]

For the brolly box at Alien Bees I see that it says:

"Acting like a softbox, it’s designed like an umbrella, fitting through your reflector as an umbrella would, then tightening around the faceplate to eliminate light spill"

From what I understand it tightens around the AB to prevent spill. How does that work for a flash (i.e. Sunpak) How does it tighten around a non-AB flash unit?

Thanks,

Lee
Softboxes come in several sizes. One might be 6'x6' or as small as something
that pops over the flash.

Here's (http://www.lumiquest.com/lq925.htm) one for a small flash head.

Does this answer your question?

Ian

[Lee Massey]

Kind of... :) What I was looking for was how the actually brollybox from Alien Bees would "tighten" around a non-Alien bee light? For example a Sunpack, 550EX, SB-800...

Thanks,

Lee

Softboxes come in several sizes. One might be 6'x6' or as small as something
that pops over the flash.

Here's (http://www.lumiquest.com/lq925.htm) one for a small flash head.

Does this answer your question?

Ian

[Shay Stephens]

It has a draw string around loose fabric. So you basically just tighten the drawstring and the fabric closes around the reflector or flash that you are using. They are made for Alien Bees, so depending on the light you are using, you may need to devise a mounting method that will work.



Kind of... :) What I was looking for was how the actually brollybox from Alien Bees would "tighten" around a non-Alien bee light? For example a Sunpack, 550EX, SB-800...

Thanks,

Lee

[tlittleton]

Nik this thread caught my eye and I also want to say thanks to Shay and everyone else for the great insight. Eventually I want to have some lighting myself, and you guys have really helped answer some of my questions about it too.

[Lee Massey]

Thanks Shay! Much appcreciated! :)

Lee


It has a draw string around loose fabric. So you basically just tighten the drawstring and the fabric closes around the reflector or flash that you are using. They are made for Alien Bees, so depending on the light you are using, you may need to devise a mounting method that will work.

[REECEPHOTO]

These were all done with a 2 light AB setup.
I recomend gettting umberellas there very easy to set up. If your looking for portable (do not get the AB soft or octo box it takes way to much time to setup, (I know I have them)just use some shoot through umberellas or a brolly box (cheap and good)
Here is a good starting kit. If you ask me!
An AB 400 and AB 800 two umberellas or a brolly box a sekonic L358 and if your doing location work where you will not have power then the vagabon system. And if you have any money left over a reflector would help also.
Of corse you also have to get stands for these also.
There is a really good link on lighting set up at Freadmiranda.com go to lighting froums and look at (show me your studio) I would give you the link but the site is down for maintance.

http://reecephoto.smugmug.com/photos/15375785-M-1.jpg
http://reecephoto.smugmug.com/photos/15376895-M-1.jpghttp://reecephoto.smugmug.com/photos/15411056-M-1.jpg

[REECEPHOTO]

Here is what i recommend.


*2 AlienBees B400 Flash Units
2 CB1 Single Light Carrying Bags
2 LS3050 10-foot General Purpose Light Stands
1 U48TWB 48-inch Translucent White “Shoot-Thru” Umbrella
1 U48SW 48-inch Silver/White Reversible Bounce Umbrella
Also comes with 2 sync cables
(you can change or modify this to meet your needs) but price is $599.00 as is.

* The vagabond system is $350 or $499 depends on what you need of if you need something to light outdoors or in a place where you wont be able to plug into a power outlit.

* The sekonic L 358 is a great light meter and will last you for many years to come and (yes you NEED one of these this is a must) Price $250 at B&H

* The photoflex lightstand umbrella carry case is $69.00 at B&H

* And the phototek background system is great if you need poratably it's very sturdy and a good price. $ 145.00 at B&H


http://www.alienbees.com/images/packages/digi.jpg

http://www.alienbees.com/images/vagabond.gif
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/largeimages/221078.jpg

http://www.photoflex.com/photoflex/products/components/outboundCaseComponents.jpg




http://www.bhphotovideo.com/images/items/41824.jpg

[REECEPHOTO]

One more thing Nik if you would like to discuss some of this over the phone I would be more than happy to help you out.

I'm in the military and stationed in Germany at the moment so It would be better for me to call you I can call you with a special phone plan but it would cost you a fortune to call me. As long as its not a long conversation Id be more than happy to give you a ring if you would like.
Just let me know.

[XO-Studios]

<SNIP>
I have the latest B&H catalog and I still have some time to order them before the gig (end of May).

However, the options are too many, so I'd appreciate some specific advices.

What shall I get?

Thank you!OK here is my route:

I love Alien Bee and their big brother/sister brand White Lightning, but I am cheap, so splurging for everything right up front was 'painfull' to just think about.

Here is the route I went, with the emphasis that I have NO affiliation with any ofthese companies.

Flash, 2 White Lightning Ultra 1200 of EBAY $280 each, similar to a B800 but much more light.

A two set umbrella (one shoot through, one reflector brolly) $49.95 (look for FotoDiox on ebay)

One heavy duty Dynatran AS-806 lightstand of ebay 101" $12.67 (ex shipping) (look for AMVONA on Ebay)
One heavy duty Dynatran AS-9110 lightstand 166" $15.- (ex shipping) (AMVONA again)

Except the Monolights everything is brand new.

Later I found a wireless controll (dedicated White Lightning) Wireless remote control/flash sync again used on ebay for about half the original price.

White Lightning has been great as they still have all the manuals online, and parts available.

Currently I am looking for a backdrop support, but have been using 3/4" pvc schedule 40 pipe and lean it against any available wall, and a set of clamps (6 for $2.00 from harbor freight).

As I said I am cheap, but the above setup works fantastic, save for some modifiers and a dedicated backdrop/seperationlight (currently using my SB800 setup in SU4 optical slave mode) I also have two old Metz CT45 with Adorama optical slaves, and a reflector kit from fotodiox again. Fotodiox also has a great softbox and even an octodome softbox for much much less than can be found anywhere else.

In short, I am an ebayer. If this was my true and and only profession, I might consider new, but would go with the same stuff.

XO,

[Nikolai]

http://www.dgrin.com/showthread.php?t=12471
See for yourself what a one-ligth setup and one sony camera can do together..:-)

[patch29]

I found a couple of online lighting instruction sites. They are put together by manufacturers, who want to sell their product, but take a look at the techniques they are using and you can substitute other manufacturers items.

Photoflex Lighting School (http://www.photoflexlightingschool.com/index.html)

Elinchrom Tips (http://www.elinchrom.com/guide1.htm)


I found another good reference site, Profoto. (http://www.profoto-usa.com/products/lightshaping/lightshapingtools.asp) The Light Shaping Tools page has links to the same scene lit with different light modifiers on a single head, giving a good idea of the different qualities of light they provide.

[Frank]

...
Next, you need a way to trigger the lights. This can be as simple as using a long sync cord from camera to light. However, location work is murder with sync cords. Try to avoid this like the plague. The next option is optical triggering. While this does work, it is not always reliable enough on location in varying lighting situations and other peoples flash going off triggering your lights. The most reliable method is to trigger the lights with radio signals. There are more and more manufacturers now coming out with radio units of various prices ranges, triggering distances, and triggering features. So do some homework here to find the right one for you.
Thanks Shay and Nik for this great and informative thread!

Thought I'd offer a bit of comic relief that supports Shay's observation about sync cords. This morning I was experimenting with light tent and strobes in my garage/studio and trying out my unused Sekonic light meter. I "saved" a few bucks in my setup by using sync cords, figuring "why bother" for working in the studio.

I had the light meter hanging from my neck and was leaning into the tent to take a reading, when the phone rang. I took a quick couple of steps before the slack in the light meter lanyard snagged the sync cord and pulled my camera and tripod over. Things toppled just slowly enough so that I could catch the camera before it hit the floor. :clap


After my breathing got back to normal and before posting this...

...I ordered a Pocket-Wizard kit from B&H!


Thanks Again,

- Frank